HG and Robotech Debates

[Jasonc]

If it takes a contract to do so, that's a pretty $h!tty company to begin with. So far, this is spelling out HG's character pretty well. Not that they've done everything bad, cause Robotech was a good thing back in the day, but this seems to be what it's all about now. "What does the contract say", "What can we get away with?" Not like it would've costed money to put up the names in the opening and/or end credits.

[Wanzerfan]

Other than the principals at Tatsunoko, the original staff members were not listed in the original ROBOTECH credits back in 1985, or in the "Remastered" DVDs that came out in 2003-04.

On the same note, even the American voice actors were not credited, at least not with their real names.

This "RESTORED" End Title attempts to correct both of those wrongs:

Credit to Mike Lugo and Rick Quitoriano for this contribution.

Cam Clarke did the same thing with Metal Gear Solid he did with Robotech. My guess is that he didn't want his name associated with a franchise in case it tanked (not the case of Metal Gear Solid; Kojima's a lucky bastard).

I think both Robotech and Metal Gear Solid were his first forays into those markets; animated television series and video games, respectively.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Wanzerfan

[Jasonc]

Cam Clarke did the same thing with Metal Gear Solid he did with Robotech. My guess is that he didn't want his name associated with a franchise in case it tanked (not the case of Metal Gear Solid; Kojima's a lucky bastard).

I think both Robotech and Metal Gear Solid were his first forays into those markets; animated television series and video games, respectively.

That's never been stated by any of the VAs on why they didn't use their real names. It's been no secret and fairly easy to access knowledge that they didn't use their real names because of the Screen Actors Guild, and they were kinda working under the table, so in order to get paid, and not get in trouble with SAG, they used aliases.

[Seto Kaiba]

Seto Kaiba (That name reminds me of Yu-Gi-oH!). you're pretty cool, and thanks for updating me on some facts that I didn't know (I remember reading those facts I quoted at the Valkyrie exchange).

No problem... we aim to please.

Robotech is great as it is. And it's future hangs on it being original.

Therein lies the problem and the great paradox of the Robotech fandom... in order for Robotech to have any kind future it needs to make something original, but the Robotech fandom has spent the last twenty-five years being hung up on the surviving Macross cast and their story. The overwhelming majority don't want a new and original Robotech, what they want is Robotech: the Rick Hunter Chronicles.

I believe it's relevant because you always asserted that the the attempt to "Americanize" Macross by Carl Macek was disrespectful to BW. Now it seems that Tatsunoko owns those scripts and they sub-leased to HG. So since Tats owns them how is that being disrespectful to writers when they're partnered up with HG?

For one... I didn't assert that Carl Macek's attempt to "Americanize" Macross was disrespectful to Big West... I said it was disrespectful to the creators of Macross: Studio Nue. What they did would be like a translator who had obtained the rights to publish a translated version of Harry Potter deciding to combine it with Lord of the Rings by changing all the character names and then crediting only himself and the original publisher without a single mention of J.K. Rowling or J.R.R. Tolkien. (I apologize to any literary buffs I just offended with that lame analogy)

Tatsunoko didn't create Macross... they took the existing story, characters, mechanical designs, etc. and made them into a screenplay and animation. That's all. So yes, Harmony Gold is being extremely disrespectful to the people who actually created Macross by crediting only Tatsunoko Productions... a company that wasn't involved at all in the creation of the story, characters, mecha, etc.

When did I assert that Studio Nue contracted with Tatsunoko? I felt that BW didn't leave a great path way for any original creator to get any credit in the international market.

There's a link to it right there in the block of text you quoted from my post... second to last paragraph. But if you need it again, I have no problem quoting it for you again: (wording is yours, the emphasis is mine)

Sounds like BW put the screws to Studio Nue & Artland for making that deal with Tatasunoko that led to Macross just being added to the Tatsunoko Machine and not standing out as its own entity.

Ouch! That's not nice calling people names who disagree with you. Soomebody's gotta be your conscience.

Take as much offense as you like to this... a conscience should be accurate the majority of the time, and on those grounds I have to say you're rather unqualified for the post.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[terry the lone wolf]

No problem... we aim to please.

Therein lies the problem and the great paradox of the Robotech fandom... in order for Robotech to have any kind future it needs to make something original, but the Robotech fandom has spent the last twenty-five years being hung up on the surviving Macross cast and their story. The overwhelming majority don't want a new and original Robotech, what they want is Robotech: the Rick Hunter Chronicles.

For one... I didn't assert that Carl Macek's attempt to "Americanize" Macross was disrespectful to Big West... I said it was disrespectful to the creators of Macross: Studio Nue. What they did would be like a translator who had obtained the rights to publish a translated version of Harry Potter deciding to combine it with Lord of the Rings by changing all the character names and then crediting only himself and the original publisher without a single mention of J.K. Rowling or J.R.R. Tolkien. (I apologize to any literary buffs I just offended with that lame analogy)

Tatsunoko didn't create Macross... they took the existing story, characters, mechanical designs, etc. and made them into a screenplay and animation. That's all. So yes, Harmony Gold is being extremely disrespectful to the people who actually created Macross by crediting only Tatsunoko Productions... a company that wasn't involved at all in the creation of the story, characters, mecha, etc.

There's a link to it right there in the block of text you quoted from my post... second to last paragraph. But if you need it again, I have no problem quoting it for you again: (wording is yours, the emphasis is mine)

Take as much offense as you like to this... a conscience should be accurate the majority of the time, and on those grounds I have to say you're rather unqualified for the post.

Hmmmmm... Tats assisted in the screenplay and animation but had nothing to do with story..? Let me say this one more time I never said Studio was contracted by Tatsunoko. If anything BW contracted Tatsunoko...Tatsunoko didn't create Macross but to say they didn't have any imput on the storyline I think is very naive...

[Gubaba]

Hmmmmm... Tats assisted in the screenplay and animation but had nothing to do with story..? Let me say this one more time I never said Studio was contracted by Tatsunoko. If anything BW contracted Tatsunoko...Tatsunoko didn't create Macross but to say they didn't have any imput on the storyline I think is very naive...

Well, it's really easy to find out for sure. Just look at Macross Perfect Memory. At the end, they have comments from all the staff, listed by where they worked. So just look for the directors, storyboarders, and writers, and you'll know.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hmmmmm... Tats assisted in the screenplay and animation but had nothing to do with story..?

Yeah, that's about the letter of it... Tatsunoko didn't get involved in the production of Macross until after Studio Nue and Artland had already created the designs and story of the series. Tatsunoko was only brought in after Big West had already pared the planned number of episodes down to 27 and concluded it was still going to be more expensive than they were willing to foot the bill for. That much comes to us directly from the "The Making of Macross" section in Macross Perfect Memory. Tatsunoko came along later and created the screenplay based on the story that Studio Nue and Artland had already made. Do you understand now?

Let me say this one more time I never said Studio was contracted by Tatsunoko.

No, what you said was that Studio Nue and Artland contracted with Tatsunoko to make the series... I've quoted and linked to the post where you said as much. The fact of the matter is that it was Big West who sought out Tatsunoko's cooperation in animating the series.

[taksraven]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, these forums need a proper Macross FAQ.

Taksraven

[Keith]

Scroll to the last post on this page:

http://www.animenews...opic.php?t=5901

So do you just have a problem understanding the concept when I explain it to you, or do you misread what you believe to be true in that post too?

It doesn't really shock me, I know some people like RT. So how do you guys make money? You made that one episode of like a sorta sequel thing, but then nothing. I have trouble believing selling SDF1 coffee mugs is keeping the lights on... BTW, I own four of them. I think its so bad ass to have that coffee cup...

I'll stick with my Dai Gurren dan mug, full of spiral energy, and none of the led of the HG cups (going by the listing on their shop page).

[Agent ONE]

So do you just have a problem understanding the concept when I explain it to you, or do you misread what you believe to be true in that post too?

I'll stick with my Dai Gurren dan mug, full of spiral energy, and none of the led of the HG cups (going by the listing on their shop page).

1. Dai Gurren dan looks like the lamest thing ever.

2. What the hell are you talking about?

[Smegalot]

1. Dai Gurren dan looks like the lamest thing ever.

2. What the hell are you talking about?

What he means is the the cups from HG come with a warning say that the cup maybe toxic...

[Keith]

1. Dai Gurren dan looks like the lamest thing ever.

2. What the hell are you talking about?

I don't think I can be friends with anyone who doesn't respect the Dai Gurren Dan...

[Dangaioh]

What he means is the the cups from HG come with a warning say that the cup maybe toxic...

In essence, drinking from HG's Protoculture cups is bad for your health.

[Seto Kaiba]

2. What the hell are you talking about?

He's talking about the following warning that's currently attached to each and every cup/mug in the robotech.com store:

California Proposition 65 Notice: The materials used as color decorations on the exterior of this product may contain lead and/or cadmium, chemicals known in the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm. Click here for more information.

In a way, it's kind of messed up... when McDonalds found out that their commemorative Shrek glassware might contain cadmium in the art from Shrek printed on it, they issued a massive voluntary recall, but Harmony Gold just slapped a warning on the store entry and kept selling them as usual.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Mr March]

He's talking about the following warning that's currently attached to each and every cup/mug in the robotech.com store:

California Proposition 65 Notice: The materials used as color decorations on the exterior of this product may contain lead and/or cadmium, chemicals known in the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects, or other reproductive harm. Click here for more information.

In a way, it's kind of messed up... when McDonalds found out that their commemorative Shrek glassware might contain cadmium in the art from Shrek printed on it, they issued a massive voluntary recall, but Harmony Gold just slapped a warning on the store entry and kept selling them as usual.

LOL! Now THAT is comedy (tragedy?) gold

Edited October 20, 2010 by Mr March

[chrisk]

He's talking about the following warning that's currently attached to each and every cup/mug in the robotech.com store:

In a way, it's kind of messed up... when McDonalds found out that their commemorative Shrek glassware might contain cadmium in the art from Shrek printed on it, they issued a massive voluntary recall, but Harmony Gold just slapped a warning on the store entry and kept selling them as usual.

*Wah wah waaaaahh*

Edited October 21, 2010 by chrisk

[Jasonc]

I drank from mine twice I think, and the rest are used as pencil/pen holders. I think I'll live.

[Einherjar]

As someone who wasn't there to drink from the Protoculture cup years ago, I need to ask because of the clear disconnect there is now:

Why does HG expect people like me to believe any of this crap when they clearly don't these days (or at least don't care about it as much as those addicted to the stuff)?

[Agent ONE]

I don't think I can be friends with anyone who doesn't respect the Dai Gurren Dan...

Saw some clips. I take it back. Looks good. Reminds me of Captain Harlock.

[Keith]

Saw some clips. I take it back. Looks good. Reminds me of Captain Harlock.

I do believe you are the only person on MW who hasn't yet watched Gurren Lagann. You sir are in for at least 100 kinds of awesome.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Keith

[Seto Kaiba]

LOL! Now THAT is comedy (tragedy?) gold

Huh... maybe that's what we should start calling them. It's certainly justified by their track record of truly epic failures.

Why does HG expect people like me to believe any of this crap when they clearly don't these days (or at least don't care about it as much as those addicted to the stuff)?

Presumably, because they're really only marketing their stuff to people who are already Robotech fans, and they have a VERY low opinion of the average Robotech fan's intelligence. Not without reason, mind you...

I do believe you are the only person on MW who hasn't yet watched Gurren Lagann. You sir are in for at least 100 kinds of awesome.

No, he's not alone in that... I haven't seen Gurren Lagann yet either. I did toy with the idea of watching it when it showed up on Hulu, but it was the dubbed version and the dub was awful.

[Agent ONE]

I do believe you are the only person on MW who hasn't yet watched Gurren Lagann. You sir are in for at least 100 kinds of awesome.

Duke Togo has been telling me to watch it for a long time. I tried, I just couldn't get into it. I don't really have enough time to get into shows. Should I make an exception?

[kanedaestes]

Hey Agent One, I haven't watched it either.

[sketchley]

Me, neither. Seen some art for it. Not my cup of tea.

[Zor Primus]

I blame RT and HG for my mistake last night, naming a Cheyenne II an Excalibur...

So last night my wife asked me why can't we just go and buy Macross at Best Buy. I ended up having to explain to her the basics behind the history and distribution rights and why Macross is only available to those who make the effort, ie overseas purchases, a visit to Japan, downloads, etc...

Her response afterwards was that she thought HG was not very ethical and should just sell/give up the Macross trademark and let the fans enjoy the show. To which I replied...DECULTURE!

[Jasonc]

I blame RT and HG for my mistake last night, naming a Cheyenne II an Excalibur...

So last night my wife asked me why can't we just go and buy Macross at Best Buy. I ended up having to explain to her the basics behind the history and distribution rights and why Macross is only available to those who make the effort, ie overseas purchases, a visit to Japan, downloads, etc...

Her response afterwards was that she thought HG was not very ethical and should just sell/give up the Macross trademark and let the fans enjoy the show. To which I replied...DECULTURE!

If you are looking for SDF Macross, it was released here by Animeigo, and ADV, as well as Macross II: Lovers Again, and Macross Plus. The rest have been struck from the rest of the world as it is. My wife agrees as well.

[Zor Primus]

If you are looking for SDF Macross, it was released here by Animeigo, and ADV, as well as Macross II: Lovers Again, and Macross Plus. The rest have been struck from the rest of the world as it is. My wife agrees as well.

Yeah, I've got those, we were talking about Macross Frontier, Zero and 7...

[azrael]

Yeah, I've got those, we were talking about Macross Frontier, Zero and 7...

Well, mainly 7 and probably Frontier, suffer from an additional and more defining money issue...as in most companies probably don't have the money to tackle the series AND music. With 7, because they used Chie Kajiura, Yoshiki Fukuyama and his band, HUMMING BIRD, the music presents a roadblock. Likewise, Frontier used May Nakabayashi and Megumi Nakajima (and she doubled as singer AND VA), both whom probably have recording contracts on top of the songs they sang, probably aren't going to be cheap. And then you have to throw in the Fire Bomber and Minmay songs that were used.

And if you want some perspective on that, at its worst, an episode of Glee costs up to $3-million, thanks to music licensing and choreography. And if I recall RDM's comments about Battlestar Galactica, a typical episode of that show ranged from $1-2 million with the bulk of the money in CGI/SFX. And IIRC some comments made about 7 from about 10 years ago, most companies back then could only allocate enough money to cover 4 episodes. After that, they would probably run out of money for it. So if one were to get around the licensing issues, you would have to deal with the music.

[Freiflug88]

I would imagine that Macross Frontier's musical rights while probably more expensive then most would have been affordable to a number of companies IF they were acquired in an agreement made before its music became the best selling Anime soundtracks in Japan.

[Zor Primus]

Well, mainly 7 and probably Frontier, suffer from an additional and more defining money issue...as in most companies probably don't have the money to tackle the series AND music. With 7, because they used Chie Kajiura, Yoshiki Fukuyama and his band, HUMMING BIRD, the music presents a roadblock. Likewise, Frontier used May Nakabayashi and Megumi Nakajima (and she doubled as singer AND VA), both whom probably have recording contracts on top of the songs they sang, probably aren't going to be cheap. And then you have to throw in the Fire Bomber and Minmay songs that were used.

And if you want some perspective on that, at its worst, an episode of Glee costs up to $3-million, thanks to music licensing and choreography. And if I recall RDM's comments about Battlestar Galactica, a typical episode of that show ranged from $1-2 million with the bulk of the money in CGI/SFX. And IIRC some comments made about 7 from about 10 years ago, most companies back then could only allocate enough money to cover 4 episodes. After that, they would probably run out of money for it. So if one were to get around the licensing issues, you would have to deal with the music.

Makes sense...it probably wouldn't be as simple as HG releasing its hold on the name. As with any imported anime there has to be investors in this case I guess a company like Viz Media for example to distribute it. There's always something...

[azrael]

Makes sense...it probably wouldn't be as simple as HG releasing its hold on the name. As with any imported anime there has to be investors in this case I guess a company like Viz Media for example to distribute it. There's always something...

HG holding the name rights pales in comparison to the music issue. The bulk of the money needed to get the music is probably the majority or equal to the amount needed just to get the series by itself. The running "gag" of licensing 7 was 1 company could work on one episode and another could work on another and another could work on another and...etc., then 7 could be licensed properly.

I would imagine that Macross Frontier's musical rights while probably more expensive then most would have been affordable to a number of companies IF they were acquired in an agreement made before its music became the best selling Anime soundtracks in Japan.

I wouldn't say popularity plays an issue, but when you hear "Macross", "music" also comes to mind and that alone would probably increase the price.

[Keith]

Duke Togo has been telling me to watch it for a long time. I tried, I just couldn't get into it. I don't really have enough time to get into shows. Should I make an exception?

Yes, yes you should. It's 100% kicking ass epic battles sh!t blowing up bouncing tits and burning hot blooded passion. And of course, giant super robots. It's one of those shows where just when you think the most epic thing happened, it's trumped a couple episodes later. And by the time you get to the end, all you'll really be able to say is "damn, that was f^cking awesome." It's the type of show where whining is met with a swift punch in the face, and losing is never remotely an option. Not sure if you've ever seen Gubnuster, but imagine that, told from a testosterone perspective.

[Zor Primus]

I do believe you are the only person on MW who hasn't yet watched Gurren Lagann. You sir are in for at least 100 kinds of awesome.

Second person here...but will remedy that!

[Freiflug88]

I wouldn't say popularity plays an issue, but when you hear "Macross", "music" also comes to mind and that alone would probably increase the price.

Such brand recognition drives greater demand in more ways then one. Its not only something that potential licensees profit could from, but its also a celebrity status that licensor's want protected and insured. Cause if things go sour for whatever reason with the licenss then mud could very likely rub off onto the licensor(s) and/or tarnish the franchise's image in general.

Of course the point I was making is that since Macross Frontier albums are now backed with the most impressive sales numbers for anime albums of all time they will probably demand far more expensive music licensing fees, no different than the college valedictorians who demand the best and highest paying employment opportunities they can get.

[Einherjar]

So more cheap @$$ anime-like alternatives by HG that the rest of the world has to put up with in the foreseeable future, by default. And continued success and survival through special circumstances, as well as getting a free ride when something involving Macross comes up.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Einherjar