HG and Robotech Debates

[Keith]

Again, I can admit that Voltron was a smidge more popular than Robotech. I just laugh at how you guys make Voltron seem like it's a 500 pound gorilla and Robotech is a spec in it's shadow... when really they're both just some 80's cartoon that had a chance to be made into live action and a dying fanbase.

both

Like it or not, Voltron rode the fire for its full 15 minutes. Robotech on the other hand barely started to smoke before being snuffed out. On the cereal scale, Voltron was far closer to getting one than Robotech will ever be.

[Einherjar]

Remember, in 25 years the only thing that's remained official are the original, who am I kidding, the only 85 episodes with no conclusion. Grand epic storyline and everything. The rest exists to make more money off it in the laziest, replicable ways possible.

[Seto Kaiba]

I just laugh at how you guys make Voltron seem like it's a 500 pound gorilla and Robotech is a spec in it's shadow... when really they're both just some 80's cartoon that had a chance to be made into live action and a dying fanbase.

Ah... now, that's you injecting your own interpretation onto what was actually said. It was never a matter of us making Voltron out to be a wildly popular show. It's always been a comparison between a corny failure that the general audience vaguely remembers (Voltron) and a corny failure they don't remember (Robotech).

Like it or not, Voltron rode the fire for its full 15 minutes. Robotech on the other hand barely started to smoke before being snuffed out. On the cereal scale, Voltron was far closer to getting one than Robotech will ever be.

Actually, wasn't Voltron back on the air a few years ago as part of the late night [adult swim] block for a while?

Remember, in 25 years the only thing that's remained official are the original, who am I kidding, the only 85 episodes with no conclusion. Grand epic storyline and everything. The rest exists to make more money off it in the laziest, replicable ways possible.

Yeah... I guess in terms of the amount of success they've had with sequels, Voltron stands head and shoulders above Robotech in terms of duration and originality, if nothing else. Quality... well... there's a dead heat if ever I saw one.

[Keith]

Actually, wasn't Voltron back on the air a few years ago as part of the late night [adult swim] block for a while?

I know Voltron had a brief network saturday morning broadcast in the last decade, can't remember about an Adult Swim spot though. Robotech had a short ride on the Sci-Fi channel 15-16 years ago, and a brief Toonami stint.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Keith

[Robelwell202]

but I guess this guy will take any help he can get...

I sincerly doubt that Seto needs help from some lowly plebe like myself. In the grand scheme of things, I'm more comic relief than an actual 'helper' in the sense that you imply. But thanks for the attempt.

[Gubaba]

I sincerly doubt that Seto needs help from some lowly plebe like myself. In the grand scheme of things, I'm more comic relief than an actual 'helper' in the sense that you imply. But thanks for the attempt.

Pfft. Don't sell yourself short. You're better than you think.

[Dynaman]

Like it or not, Voltron rode the fire for its full 15 minutes. Robotech on the other hand barely started to smoke before being snuffed out. On the cereal scale, Voltron was far closer to getting one than Robotech will ever be.

Which only proves that it was terribly marketed and had the worst product tie-ins of any of the shows listed. It says nothing for the quality of the show in particular. Most of the people that I've talked with (including here) like Robotech - the series - but disliked HG's antics.

Sounds like two groups of people arguing past one another to me...

[Desty_Nova]

Fwiw I saw "Hot Rod" the other day and voltron was mentioned once or twice. I think the fact that there are many entries in the "movie connections" section for voltron on imdb and that robotech doesn't even have one speaks volumes.

Edit: corrected movie title.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Desty_Nova

[terry the lone wolf]

If people vaguely remember Voltron why did it recieve its own segment on VH1's I Love the 80's? Where B-List celebs were describing the giant robot that will kick your a#$. I came through the 1980s and yeah kids properties didn't last too long but some were constants I.E. G.I.Joe, Transformers, GoBots, Voltron, & Robotech. Towards the end of the decade both G.I.Joe and Transformers dissappeared from the airwaves but new toys and comics were being created. Now Voltron had RT beat with their toys but Robotech had a more successful run with print media like novels and comics. Actually RT was in the same boat as Transformers with new adventures featuring the old characters being told in comic format.

I always felt Robotech was marketed more for the older kids and Voltron was for children who liked simple stories and things that blew up.

[Keith]

I wouldn't wave those robotech comics around as some kind of proof of success. The vast majority aren't even worth the paper they're printed on. And the sorry excuse for art that runs rampant in most of them looks like it was designed to match that mangled toyline. Same goes for those trashy fanfiction novels.

[Dynaman]

I wouldn't wave those robotech comics around as some kind of proof of success. The vast majority aren't even worth the paper they're printed on. And the sorry excuse for art that runs rampant in most of them looks like it was designed to match that mangled toyline. Same goes for those trashy fanfiction novels.

To be fair, compared to what was done to Voltron in TV form, those novels and comics were Voltaire... (OK - maybe more like early Tom Clancy instead of Voltaire)

[Keith]

The only thing lower than dub re-wrting of existing material (voltron/robotech) is fanfiction (robotech novels/comics)!

[EXO]

Ah... now, that's you injecting your own interpretation onto what was actually said. It was never a matter of us making Voltron out to be a wildly popular show. It's always been a comparison between a corny failure that the general audience vaguely remembers (Voltron) and a corny failure they don't remember (Robotech).

So you had no point to begin with. Putting Voltron on the side of Transformers and GI Joe is hardly saying that it's a cartoon audience vaguely remembers. It's a poor comparison meant to fuel the fire the distaste for Robotech in these threads, which doesn't need any help.

[Einherjar]

The only thing lower than dub re-wrting of existing material (voltron/robotech) is fanfiction (robotech novels/comics)!

Actually, I thought not standing by said works after people from all over the world bought them thinking they had weight as canon was even lower.

[Robelwell202]

Pfft. Don't sell yourself short. You're better than you think.

Oh, please... Compared to some of the Major-league Otaku we have roaming these threads, I'm something approaching the title of 'insignifigant bystander', really. But I thakn you for your kind words.

So you had no point to begin with. Putting Voltron on the side of Transformers and GI Joe is hardly saying that it's a cartoon audience vaguely remembers. It's a poor comparison meant to fuel the fire the distaste for Robotech in these threads, which doesn't need any help.

Quite actually, there is a point. See, people REMEMBER GI Joe, Transformers, Voltron, Thundercats, and even Mask with some measure of fondness, where Robotech is, at best, regarded as a gateway to Macross appreciation, and at worst, a ridiculous joke.

I would think that you'd want to READ the posts before you respond. It would be a lot handier for you.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Robelwell202

[EXO]

I would think that you'd want to READ the posts before you respond. It would be a lot handier for you.

Boy that was ignorant...

Since this is the very statement I'm disagreeing with...

Quite actually, there is a point. See, people REMEMBER GI Joe, Transformers, Voltron, Thundercats, and even Mask with some measure of fondness, where Robotech is, at best, regarded as a gateway to Macross appreciation, and at worst, a ridiculous joke.

It's easy to say Robotech is a joke if you group cartoons like that, when really there are people on these boards that easily say that Thundercats is a joke. Look up any Thundercat topic.

Voltron is on the same boat as Robotech. You can add it to your list of popular programs and then add even more 80's cartoons to tilt the scale even more, but each time the statement gets more and more ridiculous.

But then again that's NOT the point is it?

In all seriousness, at no point did I intend to assert that Voltron belonged to the same part of what you called the "popularity scale" GI Joe and Transformers

So which is it?

[Seto Kaiba]

I sincerly doubt that Seto needs help from some lowly plebe like myself. In the grand scheme of things, I'm more comic relief than an actual 'helper' in the sense that you imply. But thanks for the attempt.

Nah... as I've said many a time, you're selling yourself short when you say things like that. I don't really wanna be put on a pedestal as some kind of towering intellect either. I'm just an academically-oriented guy who has a good memory for detail and better-than-average access to information.

[...] but Robotech had a more successful run with print media like novels and comics. Actually RT was in the same boat as Transformers with new adventures featuring the old characters being told in comic format.

Well, okay... you've got us on a technicality. All the same, I wouldn't be so quick to point to the Robotech comics and novelizations as evidence of success. True, the Robotech novelizations by "Jack McKinney" did a reasonably brisk trade initially, but they weren't exactly what you'd call well-received. The same goes for the comics, which didn't exactly do so good on average... quite a few got canceled, and those that didn't weren't much to look at.

So you had no point to begin with. [...] It's a poor comparison meant to fuel the fire the distaste for Robotech in these threads, which doesn't need any help.

No... it was a throwaway remark about how, unlike some of its contemporaries, Robotech has largely faded from the public consciousness. You're the one who blew it all out of proportion, "creatively reinterpreted" what other people said, and made a great big fuss. If you wanted attention, all you had to do was say "Hi".

Actually, I thought not standing by said works after people from all over the world bought them thinking they had weight as canon was even lower.

Yeah... that's a pretty big dick move when you think about it.

Still... it probably was the only real way to go about unf*cking the Robotech continuity. The old novelizations and comic books departed from the setting and conventions of the animated Robotech universe that it would've been all but impossible to impose any kind of coherency on the continuity. The old comic books were particularly awful in this regard. It wasn't at all unusual for the comics to contradict the Robotech animated series and each other, and on a few occasions they even contradicted themselves on an issue-to-issue basis. It's honestly so bad that they defy organization into anything like a collection of universes unless you assume that each and every comic series is a separate universe. It would've been a nightmare trying to work within the bounds of that mutually contradictory mess while creating new material, so brooming the lot makes a lot of sense.

[EXO]

No... it was a throwaway remark about how, unlike some of its contemporaries, Robotech has largely faded from the public consciousness. You're the one who blew it all out of proportion, "creatively reinterpreted" what other people said, and made a great big fuss. If you wanted attention, all you had to do was say "Hi".

So now it's throw away... It's a silly remark I wanted to point out, but I guess you get away with something like that all the time on this thread...

[waters7]

Speaking of comics, Wildstorm (the publishers of such comics as Love & War and Invasion), is closing its doors

That sucks, especially since I was looking forward to another trade paperback of rehash enhanced and new material for the lover & war stories

I'm just an academically-oriented guy who has a good memory for detail and better-than-average access to information.

Seto, what ever happened to that source of yours were supposedly Carl Macek admits that he was influenced by a network executive on the production of Robotech?

Edit: for typos

Edited September 22, 2010 by waters7

[azrael]

Speaking of comics, Wildstorm (the publishers of such comics as Love & War and Invasion), is closing its doors

...

That's due to the fact that a big restructuring is happening to DC Entertainment as I mentioned earlier. (Article #2, Article #3). WB is going to focus on how to use DC and its properties to venture out beyond movies. Which probably means RT comics will probably be published through DC Comics directly (however, it may or may not necessarily be through the DC Comics imprint). I do forsee a number of possibilities that will probably come out but those will probably have to wait for till I see how WB plans to explore the DC Comics' and Vertigo Comics' properties.

[Seto Kaiba]

So now it's throw away... It's a silly remark I wanted to point out, but I guess you get away with something like that all the time on this thread...

It was never not a throwaway remark... you're the one who made a big deal out of it, and you're still bent out of shape about it even after a few people said I had a point. Just let it go. You're were already toeing the line when you started insulting me and Robelwell202, and now you're basically into full-blown flame baiting.

Speaking of comics, Wildstorm (the publishers of such comics as Love & War and Invasion), is closing its doors

That sucks, especially since I was looking forward to another trade paperback of rehash enhanced and new material for the lover & war stories

Eh... that's not really that big of a loss, IMO. I wonder if they'll publish any future comics or collections through DC Comics. It'd be coming full circle for them in a way... since it was way back in 1984 that Revell had that miniseries Robotech Defenders published by DC to promote the model line they had at the time. About the only nice thing I can say for the new comics is they don't completely contradict the story of the animated series and/or each other.

Seto, what ever happened to that source of yours were supposedly Carl Macek admits that he was influenced by a network executive on the production of Robotech?

's it your plan to pop up once every four weeks and ask this? Y'ever heard of e-mail? I know you've got my MSN too... you could've sped this up immensely by helping a bit. Going through three big artbooks and twenty years worth of comic books takes a bit of doing.

In any event, I think I have an answer for you. It's not quite the answer I would've hoped for, but take it for what it's worth. Back when you first asked, I told you I was reasonably certain that I'd initially heard it from a generally reliable old-time fan. I have this nagging feeling it was something Basara549 related to me in a chat over on CRT about Carl Macek's career and role in the Robotech production process, but to be honest I don't recall who it was. I do, however, think I've found the origins of the statement back in Robotech Art 1. It was executive meddling that combined the shows, all right... but on the part of Revell, who pushed for Macross to be expanded to a length that would allow first-run syndication instead of trying to pitch a straight-up dub to networks or continuing to release it directly to video. (RT Art 1, pp242-3)

Edited September 22, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Keith]

Still... it probably was the only real way to go about unf*cking the Robotech continuity. The old novelizations and comic books departed from the setting and conventions of the animated Robotech universe that it would've been all but impossible to impose any kind of coherency on the continuity. The old comic books were particularly awful in this regard. It wasn't at all unusual for the comics to contradict the Robotech animated series and each other, and on a few occasions they even contradicted themselves on an issue-to-issue basis. It's honestly so bad that they defy organization into anything like a collection of universes unless you assume that each and every comic series is a separate universe. It would've been a nightmare trying to work within the bounds of that mutually contradictory mess while creating new material, so brooming the lot makes a lot of sense.

As I said, "fanfiction", bleh!

[Seto Kaiba]

As I said, "fanfiction", bleh!

Eh... unless the original creators of a property are involved, the only thing separating fan fiction from "expanded universe" materials at the end of the day is whether the author collects a paycheck upon completion.

[waters7]

's it your plan to pop up once every four weeks and ask this? Y'ever heard of e-mail? I know you've got my MSN too... you could've sped this up immensely by helping a bit. Going through three big artbooks and twenty years worth of comic books takes a bit of doing.

In any event, I think I have an answer for you. It's not quite the answer I would've hoped for, but take it for what it's worth. Back when you first asked, I told you I was reasonably certain that I'd initially heard it from a generally reliable old-time fan. I have this nagging feeling it was something Basara549 related to me in a chat over on CRT about Carl Macek's career and role in the Robotech production process, but to be honest I don't recall who it was. I do, however, think I've found the origins of the statement back in Robotech Art 1. It was executive meddling that combined the shows, all right... but on the part of Revell, who pushed for Macross to be expanded to a length that would allow first-run syndication instead of trying to pitch a straight-up dub to networks or continuing to release it directly to video. (RT Art 1, pp242-3)

Actually dude, if you need to know, I had a loss in my family... and you know, those things take priority over popping on this thread every day.

Going back to the topic, I see that you take pride in how "accurate" and "well informed" you are so it's rather odd for you to take a comment that some else made at a chat and passing it as fact.

As I told you and showed you before, I have a lot of Robotech material and outside of the reference made about using NBC guidelines on children's programming, I never heard or read that Macek was in any way influenced by a network executive in the production of Robotech. This is of interest to me, especially since i'm trying to put together an accurate description of the Robotech production process for my spanish Robotech website.

[Seto Kaiba]

Actually dude, if you need to know, I had a loss in my family... and you know, those things take priority over popping on this thread every day.

Nah, I didn't actually need to know... but I am sorry for your loss.

Going back to the topic, I see that you take pride in how "accurate" and "well informed" you are so it's rather odd for you to take a comment that some else made at a chat and passing it as fact.

Indeed it is... like I said, I remember the original remark as being credible and from a reliable source, otherwise there's no way I would've reiterated it. If it wasn't, I would've treated it with the same skepticism that almost drove Basara up a tree over some anecdotes from Wayne Smith (editor of the Rifter) about Harmony Gold and the extent of their involvement in the original Robotech RPG that he couldn't substantiate.

I never heard or read that Macek was in any way influenced by a network executive in the production of Robotech. This is of interest to me, especially since i'm trying to put together an accurate description of the Robotech production process for my spanish Robotech website.

Yeah, it was a point of interest for me too when it was mentioned to me... though on digging into it, I think it was, in all likelihood, a misremembered account of how Macek wanted to push Macross as a straight dub, and was pushed to combine it with other shows to get it up to syndication length so networks wouldn't turn their noses up at it as being too short... something referenced in the cited portion of Robotech Art 1.

[terry the lone wolf]

Speaking of comics, Wildstorm (the publishers of such comics as Love & War and Invasion), is closing its doors

That sucks, especially since I was looking forward to another trade paperback of rehash enhanced and new material for the lover & war stories

It'still listed on DC Comics October solitications so it'll be available. The restructuring and cancellation of Wildstorm is for future projects. Wildstorm imprint will end but the characters will be published under the DC banner (though I hope the Wildstorm characters will continue on a parallel Earth and not DC proper).

[Wanzerfan]

Well it seems the real reason why I was banned was the joke.

I just remembered that Steve sent me a couple of e-mails around the time I was banned. The first one was wondering if I was joking when I posted that thread (he must've been cleaning the old posts when he came across the thread), and not three minutes pass when I got the second one saying that I wasn't welcome there anymore and my privileges were revoked. On the next day I found that my priviliges were restored and made those comments. The next day I found that I was permabanned.

[Keith]

Yeah, I remember the time I got banned from Robotech.com, it was.....wait a minute, I never did get banned, I got bored of the one reason I kept going back, i.e. logging in to get daily points, then logging back out...

[Seto Kaiba]

Well it seems the real reason why I was banned was the joke.

Yup... no surprises there.

These days, it's pretty much standard procedure for the robotech.com moderators to treat anything explicitly or implicitly critical of the Robotech "creative team" as a personal insult and issue bannings accordingly. Even if you make your critical remarks on another site, it's no guarantee certain robotech.com moderators won't read it and mark you for a ban anyway. It wasn't always this bad. I think it was right around the time they started showing production materials from what was known as Robotech: Shadow Force, and people started saying the CG model samples they were showing around looked cheap and amateurish. Still... in your case, it was inevitable that you would get banned. You don't self-censor, and the average tone of your posts is like an angry Fred Reed.

Yeah, I remember the time I got banned from Robotech.com, it was.....wait a minute, I never did get banned, I got bored of the one reason I kept going back, i.e. logging in to get daily points, then logging back out...

Fear not, brother Keith... despite having never been banned, our legends will live forever in the psychological damage khyron_prime apparently suffered at our hands.

I'm actually amazed you never managed to get banned... same with USN Hornet Pilot.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[HappyPenguins]

I remember when I got banned.......fun times

I at least got one last joke in before it happened =P

[chrisk]

Not sure how Wildstorm's fate is tied to Robotech, but here's some news from Comic Book Resources:

The short list of notable moves includes the relocation of DC's digital and administrative departments to Burbank, California while publisher remains in New York and the parallel shuttering of two DC imprints – most notably the La Jolla, CA-based WildStorm brand whose books will either be cancelled for the time being (in the case of the struggling WildStorm superhero universe) or shifted back to DC proper (in the case of the more lucrative licensed comics program). Many questions linger thanks to these changes, including which employees of DC will be asked to move or be let go and which comics and characters will live on in the months ahead.

This is not a cost cutting initiative and it is not a situation where we are assuming DC functions into Warner Bros. We’re looking for opportunities to work together, not to collapse DC in to Warner Bros. - Diane Nelson, DC Entertainment President

What I want to know is are my old rotting Robotech comics worth something!?

That sucks, especially since I was looking forward to another trade paperback of rehash enhanced and new material for the lover & war stories

You like seeing Max Sterling cry?

[Legioss]

Pizza took out for you!

Implying Carl Macek told one true story about his involvement with Robotech. I remember him saying multiple times that he thought up the idea to add Southern Cross and Mospeada to Macross after noticing he didn't have enough episodes for a (high value) syndicated series. It depended on who he was talking to and if he was working for Harmony Gold.

I WAS STANDING ON MY TOILET HANGING A CLOCK. THE PORCELAIN WAS WET. I SLIPPED, HIT MY HEAD ON THE SINK, AND WHEN I CAME TO I HAD A REVELATION, A VISION, A PICTURE IN MY HEAD... OF THIS. THIS IS WHAT MAKES ROBOTECH POSSIBLE: PROTOCULTURE... A FOOD FUEL DRUG GOD FLOWER!

I'm not banned yet but I have been excommunicated from their cult for several years now. The whole website is a troll and realizing that is the key to sticking around, or you could pound your head against some metal or concrete until you fit in there.

I still have some Robotech toys left over from my RDF-HQ sale a few years ago that nobody wanted to buy. You'd think with a hot tentpole show like Robotech I wouldn't still have The Women of Robotech and the Chunky Donkey in my closet. I can't even give them away.

[cannon_fodder674]

THIS JUST IN!

MACEK TROLLED YOU.

Edited September 23, 2010 by cannon_fodder674

[Keith]

I still have some Robotech toys left over from my RDF-HQ sale a few years ago that nobody wanted to buy. You'd think with a hot tentpole show like Robotech I wouldn't still have The Women of Robotech and the Chunky Donkey in my closet. I can't even give them away.

Yes, rename successful!!

[Seto Kaiba]

What I want to know is are my old rotting Robotech comics worth something!?

Survey says... "No". Just for giggles, I consulted a friend of mine who is the proprietor of a comic/hobby shop in town and asked him what he thought the old Robotech comics would be worth. He weighed in on it, saying that in his opinion the old Robotech comics are all but worthless to anyone who isn't a Robotech fan, and that in good condition the majority aren't worth more than maybe $3 an issue. He did say that Robotech: Mordecai and its ill fated continuation Robotech: Clone could command a higher price due to rarity, and that the new limited edition comics could command a slightly higher price as well due to forced scarcity... at least until they get collected into graphic novels and tank the price again.

Implying Carl Macek told one true story about his involvement with Robotech. I remember him saying multiple times that he thought up the idea to add Southern Cross and Mospeada to Macross after noticing he didn't have enough episodes for a (high value) syndicated series. It depended on who he was talking to and if he was working for Harmony Gold.

Near as I can tell, he was actually reasonably honest about the origins of Robotech and the degree to which it'd been changed from the source material early on. It wasn't until later that he started saying troll-like things like how he'd improved the flawed originals and that Macross sequels were emulating Robotech by de-emphasizing the importance of music. (Note that he said that less than 3 years after Macross Dynamite 7)

MACEK TROLLED YOU.

Macek trolled a lot of people in his later years...