HG and Robotech Debates

[yui1107]

This would be the same situation as you lending a friend pictures of your children, then that same friend coming and taking your children away from you, because that picture of your children means they own your children.

Harmony Gold are thieves, pirates, and need to go away.

I hope you can understand what I'm saying, as this is the only time I will say it to you.

　

その通りだと思います。ハーモニーゴールドUSA社の主張には確かに根拠がありません。

でも私は、もっと、ずっと先の大きな目的のことを話題にしています。

翻案された作品であっても、それを、少女時代、少年時代に観て育ったファンの人達にとって、それは大事な思い出でしょう。　

どの作品が優れているか劣っているとかを論じるのはナンセンスです。　

フィルム、ショウ・ビジネスは顧客の為に存在するのであって、ハーモニーゴールドの為にあるわけでも、ビッグ・ウエストの為に存在するわけでもありません。

ハーモニーゴールドの主張が泥棒の論理であるとしも、今のままでいれば、双方のファン、両国のファンにとって、何も良いことはありません。

自分の領域だけで相互交流のない作品世界は、これまでの例をみるに、10年から20年先には衰退していってしまうことは、歴史が証明しています。

私がもし「ビッグ・ウエスト」のプレジデントであったら、双方の国家の　「ロボテック」　と　「マクロス」のファン層が、いずれも「既に完成してしまっている事情」を考えて、「顧客の為に」、相手に対して、もっと大人の論理で動き、和平提案をするでしょう。

「それを”今”、実現出来る立場に居ない」ことに、私の悔しさがあります。

Romance of the Three Kingdoms and Robotech VS Macross in Robotech and License debate blog

三国志演義とマクロスとロボテックと　at the Livedoor blog

Edited September 19, 2010 by yui1107

[Einherjar]

Never mind, this is the Internet. Go to town with it.

[Jedi Nazgul]

Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen was rushed out because the producers were afraid it would be competing with the live action Robotech movie is a crackpot theory put forward by a pair of robotech.com moderators (Maverick_LSC and MEMO1DOMINION). They used it a lot as "proof" Hollywood was taking Robotech seriously and that the movie was going to be the next big thing. Their boasts about it just kept getting bigger, and after a while they were preaching that the live action Robotech movie was going to be some kind of epic, genre-defying masterpiece fit to rival or surpass Star Wars and Star Trek. As you can see, it's pretty much just wishful thinking on the part of the lunatic fringe.

I remember reading that at rt.com and rtX.com that memo1dominion and maverick_lsc and a few others said something like "Robotech will be WB's new tent pole since Harry Potter finished" and I almost knew when I read that it was complete crap. From what I read Robotech would have been way past Shadow Rising and on the 3rd story by now and even had voice actors ready then the crap with WB horned it out of the way. But we all know what is the truth, Robotech has so few fans and not enough to boost its future and if they do not even have faith in a product to mass produce to sell like Transformers then why should HG go all out on a cartoon that hardly anyone would watch or buy? I remember Kevin McKeever writing something like "why make millions of toys if people only buys 5,000" so likewise, if they too cheap to make a million dollar movie if only maybe 5,000 will watch it world wide.

I bet Macross will be on their 5th movie or a new series by the time the rest of the Robotech fans realize that HG, Kevin, Tommy, Steve and those caps typing moderators were lying to themselves and eachother. I am glad to be one of the few fans of Robotech that accepts the fact that Robotech is a dry mummy and will never meet the standards it had in the 80s.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Jedi Nazgul

[Robelwell202]

I bet Macross will be on their 5th movie or a new series by the time the rest of the Robotech fans realize that HG, Kevin, Tommy, Steve and those caps typing moderators were lying to themselves and eachother.

I think you're being overly optimistic.

When I was active on RTX, I posted an experiment with links to two AMVs, one featuring RT:TSC animation, and one showing MacF animation. The amount of hate-on I recieved was well above the norm, and didn't make me any more popular with the RT fans present.

Now, the reason I bring this up is this: With Macross Frontier getting as much fan-love as it does, and RT:TSC getting the big boo, you'd think that most level-headed fans would realize that Robotech has no chance of recapturing what little glory it had in days past. Instead, we get people like MEMO and Mav, showering every unsuspecting fool with wild, unfounded theories, as well as threats to those who don't agree with them.

Point, in short: Things will never change. The Macross Franchise could go on to have several dozen more series and movies done, all of them excellent, and we'd still be bombarded with wild speculation about how Toby McGuire's just waiting or the right moment to strike, as it were.

[Seto Kaiba]

And spending 5 minutes on Wikipedia would also point to that. In fact, it covers considerable detail (and provides sources) over its rushed production.

Bah... and take all the fun out of rifling madly through the LA Times and other newsprint in search of answers?

I remember reading that at rt.com and rtX.com that memo1dominion and maverick_lsc and a few others said something like "Robotech will be WB's new tent pole since Harry Potter finished" and I almost knew when I read that it was complete crap.

Huh... now, I distinctly remember Maverick_LSC and MEMO1DOMINION running off at the mouth (or perhaps "at the fingers") about how Robotech was destined to be Warner's tentpole sci-fi franchise, but I don't seem to recall them having ever mentioned Harry Potter in connection with all this. After all, there are still two movies to go yet in the movie adaptation of Harry Potter... that'll have 'em for at least a few years yet.

I bet Macross will be on their 5th movie or a new series by the time the rest of the Robotech fans realize that HG, Kevin, Tommy, Steve and those caps typing moderators were lying to themselves and each other. I am glad to be one of the few fans of Robotech that accepts the fact that Robotech is a dry mummy and will never meet the standards it had in the 80s.

Now that might be a little over-optimistic... after all, we don't know what they're going to do after they finish up Macross Frontier: the Wings of Goodbye. It'll be getting kind of close to the 30th anniversary by that point, so I'd guess they'll go for another OVA if they can swing it. I wouldn't mind seeing an adaptation of Macross: the First. In a way, it's kind of sad that the realistic outlook on Robotech's future could be pithily summed up with a simple "It's dead, Jim." Back in the day, when rewrites weren't considered raping the source material, Robotech sort of accomplished the goal Carl Macek set down for it... introducing America to Macross. It's a disappointment that it eventually became something that ran counter to the original intentions of its "creator" and is stuck floundering around under the crushing weight of Harmony Gold's ineptitude. If there is new Robotech in the future, it will be the same kind of low-quality fanwank that Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles was.

[Keith]

　

In that I see you have paid no attention to anything I said, I've been left with no option to mark you down as the troll you appear to be.

[azrael]

どの作品が優れているか劣っているとかを論じるのはナンセンスです。

Ideally, that's the point of this thread...however...

In that I see you have paid no attention to anything I said, I've been left with no option to mark you down as the troll you appear to be.

I would say it's more like, does she even comprehend what we're talking about and how this even affects either side of the pond.

[Seto Kaiba]

In that I see you have paid no attention to anything I said, I've been left with no option to mark you down as the troll you appear to be.

'kay... I don't have the energy to do this right now, so let's just pretend I posted another diatribe about how it's wrong to label people as trolls just because they speak/act without all the facts. Or don't. 's all good. I'm just too worn out to care.

I would say it's more like, does she even comprehend what we're talking about and how this even affects either side of the pond.

Given the content of her average post, I would guess that her problem is about 50% language barrier and 50% obfuscating stupidity. She knows she was given incorrect information, but she doesn't seem to want to accept that her decision to take drastic action was asinine.

[Keith]

Given the content of her average post, I would guess that her problem is about 50% language barrier and 50% obfuscating stupidity. She knows she was given incorrect information, but she doesn't seem to want to accept that her decision to take drastic action was asinine.

"Tis that not the classic definition of a troll?

[Seto Kaiba]

"Tis that not the classic definition of a troll?

Not really... if she were doing it just to annoy the piss out of us, then I'd say she fit the classic definition of a "troll". So far, she seems to think her goals are actually achievable...

Edited September 20, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[UN Spacy]

RT25 is tonight I'm in town for the event should be fun, hope to see some of you guys there.

[Keith]

Not really... if she were doing it just to annoy the piss out of us, then I'd say she fit the classic definition of a "troll". So far, she seems to think her goals are actually achievable...

Ok, then I'll forgive her for now, and hope that Big West's security goons don't ruff her up too much if she sneaks into the building.

[taksraven]

"Tis that not the classic definition of a troll?

Well, if according to some, Wanzerfan does not fit the definition of a troll, why should this chick? For that matter, why should anybody?

Taksraven

[Seto Kaiba]

Well, if according to some, Wanzerfan does not fit the definition of a troll, why should this chick? For that matter, why should anybody?

Easy... the difference between a troll and a person who posts ignorant things is a question of intent. Put simply, what separates people like yui1107 and wanzerfan from the trolls is that there doesn't seem to be any malice behind their actions... just good ol' fashioned ignorance.

[Jasonc]

Jasonc, I understand you were once a moderator on RT.com. Is it a common practice for Steve Yun to ignore a problematic thread and then decide to lock it and ban the thread poster 2 weeks later?

I think the lag time for fixing "problematic" threads wasn't as bad as it is now. Steve used to be a little bit more involved, but in all seriousness, he doesn't do much over there. He is supposed to be the site's admin, but doesn't do any site admin.

And no, back in the day, when people cared about the site, if there was a problem, usually we tried to settle it over email, and all, not just lock the thread and ban. If there was a "ban", at least when me and several others had to do it, it was sent with a clear and understandable reason why, and in a rare case where there was a misunderstanding, that persons priviledges were given back. The new trend over there is to ban without reason or notice, and even in a more public forum, instead of addressing the individual. It doesn't help when the staff take all criticism as personal attacks, even though it isn't, but that's just one of many countless issues on why they are where they are at. robotech.com is a clear representation of how the franchise is run, and that's really unfortunate. Good moderating isn't hard, you just have to be impartial, and understand that when issues come up, you have to listen to both sides before coming to any conclusions. That simple concept has been extinct from that site for a long time now.

[Jedi Nazgul]

I think you're being overly optimistic.

<b>Now, the reason I bring this up is this: With Macross Frontier getting as much fan-love as it does, and RT:TSC getting the big boo, you'd think that most level-headed fans would realize that Robotech has no chance of recapturing what little glory it had in days past. Instead, we get people like MEMO and Mav, showering every unsuspecting fool with wild, unfounded theories, as well as threats to those who don't agree with them.</b>

Point, in short: Things will never change. The Macross Franchise could go on to have several dozen more series and movies done, all of them excellent, and we'd still be bombarded with wild speculation about how Toby McGuire's just waiting or the right moment to strike, as it were.

I didn't mean to sound too optimistic but I was thinking that for the last 20 years Robotech fans never accepted that Robotech went into a coma and it seems that in another 20 years Robotech fans will still be saying WB will make the movie and if Macross keeps going then I am sure plenty can be done in 20 more years.

As for your point on Macross Frontier vs Shadow Chronicles. I can see why so many would be disappointed in realizing the truth, I too was a fool for liking Shadow Chronicles until I refreshed my memories and watched the New Generation saga and then it hit me like "What tha heck, where was Lunk, Sera, Lancer, Rook and Annie?" then when I turned a new leaf and posted it I am sure I would get flamed for calling out the plot holes in Shadow Chronicles, and that would make HG and RT.com mods mad because Shadow Chronicles seems to be the only thing keeping Robotech on life support because I read that memo1demonion and Kevin McKeever said that "shadow chronicles keeps selling and most viewed on Hulu"

And Shadow Chronicles did not inspire much, while Macross Frontier inspired an awesome PSP game I got called Macross: Ultimate Frontier and Shadow Chronicles got a cell phone game, so no wonder so many hateg it when you proved Macross is better.

Now that might be a little over-optimistic...

I know, I hope my explanation to Robelwell helped clarify that, It just seems that Robotech fans will be waiting an eternity or 2 for something new (or 20 years give or take) and if Macross lives on then I sure hope more anime and movies will come out.

At least Voltron movie fans seems to accept the fact the movie will never be made, so why can't Robotech fans?

[Gubaba]

At least Voltron movie fans seems to accept the fact the movie will never be made, so why can't Robotech fans?

That's kind of unfair, Pizza. The Voltron movie was ANNOUNCED as cancelled. Robotech hasn't been. Yet.

[cannon_fodder674]

MACEK LIED.

[Zor Primus]

MACEK LIED.

Too soon?

[taksraven]

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!

[Seto Kaiba]

The new trend over there is to ban without reason or notice, and even in a more public forum, instead of addressing the individual. It doesn't help when the staff take all criticism as personal attacks, even though it isn't, but that's just one of many countless issues on why they are where they are at.

True... but you have to remember that it's actually pretty rare for Steve to wade in himself to mete out a ban for some offense, and usually when he does it's something that's actually against the rules. This more recent trend of revoking a person's posting privileges for various flimsy and contrived reasons is just something a pair of bad eggs on the moderator staff do to suck up to Harmony Gold for the sake of personal advancement. What those two hope to gain is more or less common knowledge... Maverick_LSC wants to be an "insider" fan because he thinks that having an inside track on future Robotech productions will earn him the respect and admiration of his fellow fans that his mod status doesn't get him, and MEMO1DOMINION is hoping that if he kisses enough ass he'll be offered a job at Harmony Gold the same way Kevin McKeever was.

I am sure I would get flamed for calling out the plot holes in Shadow Chronicles, and that would make HG and RT.com mods mad because Shadow Chronicles seems to be the only thing keeping Robotech on life support because I read that memo1demonion and Kevin McKeever said that "shadow chronicles keeps selling and most viewed on Hulu"

Eh... you wouldn't have a lot to fear as far as getting flamed for criticizing Shadow Chronicles by pointing out the plot holes. You might lose a couple DAYS counting them all, but about the worst you can expect is for one of the aforementioned moderators to swiftly remove your posting privileges for "attacking" Tommy Yune. It'd sound a lot more impressive to say that "Don't criticize Shadow Chronicles" is an unspoken rule... but we can't really say it's unspoken since Maverick_LSC and MEMO1DOMINION have been quite clear that criticizing Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles is verboten.

Of course you're going to hear something like that from Kevin McKeever... it's literally his job. He's the marketing coordinator for the Robotech franchise, despite the fact that his behavior reads like a list of marketing and public relations cardinal sins, and most any corporate cynic will tell you marketing is "the use of fraud and deception to sell trash to idiots". 'course, it doesn't look like the movie is even offered on hulu anymore, so make of that what you will.

At least Voltron movie fans seems to accept the fact the movie will never be made, so why can't Robotech fans?

I'd say it's probably because vague promises of future success are about all Robotech fans have had to cling to over the past nine or more years. The reason they don't want to let it go is because it's literally all they've got going for them. At least people remember Voltron... almost nobody remembers Robotech. At least... not fondly anyway...

[EXO]

At least people remember Voltron... almost nobody remembers Robotech. At least... not fondly anyway...

WHAT? Way to overstate an opinion as an assumption or even a fact. I would say that the same people that watched Voltron are the same ones that watched Robotech and if they remember one, they remember the other. If anything Voltron probably has less of a fan base because they never had Macross sequels and and toy lines to keep some of the fans moderately interested. Sure Voltron had that CG series for a little while but to present that there's a wide popularity gap between the two properties is kinda preposterous.

[Seto Kaiba]

WHAT? Way to overstate an opinion as an assumption or even a fact.

Eh... it's not nearly the overstatement you're making it out to be. However, since you've questioned it, it would be remiss of me not to clarify things somewhat.

I would say that the same people that watched Voltron are the same ones that watched Robotech and if they remember one, they remember the other. If anything Voltron probably has less of a fan base because they never had Macross sequels and and toy lines to keep some of the fans moderately interested. Sure Voltron had that CG series for a little while but to present that there's a wide popularity gap between the two properties is kinda preposterous.

Now, putting aside the question of mecha anime enthusiasts... when was the last time you saw a Robotech pop culture reference? I'm not talking about how some Robotech fans point to Macross and Mospeada references they find in legitimate anime and assume are references to Robotech... I mean an honest-to-goodness, unambiguous reference to Robotech in popular culture? I don't think I've ever actually seen one. Let's compare that to Voltron, which has been referenced or parodied in Robot Chicken, Titan Maximum, Sealab 2021, Lost, Home Movies, Megas XLR, Family Guy, and South Park... and that's just in reasonably recent television. It's also been referenced in the lyrics of songs by artists including P. Diddy, Eminem, Busta Rhymes, and Edan. Hell, they've even referenced it in the web series Red vs Blue and in commercials for Sprite. Who references Robotech? Nobody, that's who.

Yes, I don't deny that people in mecha circles are going to remember what Robotech is. For the longest time, it was practically an article of faith that anyone who posted about Robotech on 4chan's /m/ was trolling. They're going to know about it because they might've watched it at some point, or at least have heard about all of the controversy surrounding the way its owners block Macross licensing and screwed over the recent MechWarrior game. Ask the average schmuck off the street, and the odds are he'll remember, or at least have heard of, shows like Voltron, GI Joe, and Transformers... but Robotech? Good luck.

I wouldn't call it a gap in popularity so much as a colossal gap in name recognition.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[EXO]

So you're assuming that because all of those people that reference Voltron has never heard of Robotech? And the people that actually got those jokes have no idea what Robotech is? I like the way you discount one side of the argument and then just use another aspect as your winning point... you can have your thread back now. double :rolleyes:

[Seto Kaiba]

So you're assuming that because all of those people that reference Voltron has never heard of Robotech? And the people that actually got those jokes have no idea what Robotech is?

No, not quite... but you're doing a sterling job of putting words in my mouth. I'm making a few logical inferences here that you're taking exception to. To be precise, what I'm saying is that the repeated pop culture references to Voltron imply that people will (and do) remember the show's name and the salient bits of the story. Likewise, the absence of any pop culture references to Robotech implies that the "general audience" can't be expected to remember what Robotech is or the salient parts of the story and/or that the creators of the shows making all of these pop culture references don't remember Robotech either. The two shows have markedly similar production track records of failure... so tell me, why is it Voltron is referenced frequently and Robotech not at all? Please, if you've got an alternate plausible explanation then don't keep it to yourself!

Now, the problem with your counterargument here is that you're operating under the premise that Voltron and Robotech must have had a common audience because they were on at around the same time, and that anyone who remembers one must also remember the other equally well. It just doesn't work that way. I'm not denying that it's plausible there was overlap in their respective audiences, but to suggest that if someone watched one then they had to have watched the other is fallacious in the extreme. Likewise, even if they did watch both, it's no guarantee they would remember both equally well. If they liked one and disliked the other, it's likely they'd remember the one they liked much more clearly than the one they didn't.

I like the way you discount one side of the argument and then just use another aspect as your winning point... you can have your thread back now. double :rolleyes:

Glad you liked it, I'm really enjoying your fallacious premise.

[EXO]

I find it funny that even in your argument, saying that Robotech has no place in the popularity scale that you put Voltron next to Transformers and G.I. Joe... that's the kind of thing that just skews your argument. I'm not even trying to argue that Robotech is MORE popular than Voltron, maybe you have enough time in your hands to research such mundane statistics, in which case I would totally lose in this argument... but I have to say that to assume that NO ONE would remember Robotech compared to Voltron is as ridiculous as saying Voltron, TF and GI Joe are in equal standing against robotech... now THAT is fallacy.

[Robelwell202]

I find it funny that even in your argument, saying that Robotech has no place in the popularity scale that you put Voltron next to Transformers and G.I. Joe... that's the kind of thing that just skews your argument. I'm not even trying to argue that Robotech is MORE popular than Voltron, maybe you have enough time in your hands to research such mundane statistics, in which case I would totally lose in this argument... but I have to say that to assume that NO ONE would remember Robotech compared to Voltron is as ridiculous as saying Voltron, TF and GI Joe are in equal standing against robotech... now THAT is fallacy.

Okay... have you actually read what Seto wrote? Since I'm seeing a concentrated lack of comprehension, I'll have to assume you didn't.

Seto's not neccessarily saying that no one remembers Robotech, since there's obviously a lot of ffolks who do (Look around this site for all the folks who've said that RT was thier gateway to Macross, for starters). What Seto's actually saying is, VOLTRON is remembered much more fondly that ROBOTECH.

Get it, now? Good!!!

I'm here to help.

[Wanzerfan]

Boy do I know the Robotech.com ban hammer.

The last straws was a little joke I made at Steve's expense concerning a line from "Heartbreak Ridge" and another comment I made that someone over there really took offense to.

The actual thread over there was entitled "What does Steve Yun and Major Powers have in common?" with the body "I think Sgt. Major Chuzu summed it up on this one. " (a thread that I actually let die; if I was serious, I would've bumped the freaking thing).

The line in question was this:

"His farthole's soaked so tight, he sh*ts out of his mouth"

The real final straw was when I said on the Robotech.com forums that the crew basically threw the non-cannon storylines into the trash. The day after I posted that, I had my posting privileges over there permanently revoked.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Wanzerfan

[chrisk]

Boy do I know the Robotech.com ban hammer...

...The real final straw was when I said on the Robotech.com forums that the crew basically threw the non-cannon storylines into the trash. The day after I posted that, I had my posting privileges over there permanently revoked.

"Now it's personal." - Steve Yun

I heard at one point that MEMO or some other shmuck said the they wanted the RT boards "controversy-free" because Warner Brothers was watching. I guess now that Steve has become even less active probably means they don't give a sh*t anymore. Or the housing market is booming.

What Seto's actually saying is, VOLTRON is remembered much more fondly that ROBOTECH.

People actually remember Robotech really, really fondly. To a lot of creative individuals especially, its right up there with Starwars. Voltron? Not so much. Voltron gets laughed at more often though... is that really a good thing?

Edited September 21, 2010 by chrisk

[Seto Kaiba]

I find it funny that even in your argument, saying that Robotech has no place in the popularity scale that you put Voltron next to Transformers and G.I. Joe... that's the kind of thing that just skews your argument.

Oh my... first it was a counterargument based on fallacious assumptions, and now you're taking my remarks out of context to put words in my mouth. I've half a mind to ask if you're running for public office this term, but that'd probably be dangerously close to political commentary wouldn't it? (in case someone comes over with a bad case of serious, this is a joke)

In all seriousness, at no point did I intend to assert that Voltron belonged to the same part of what you called the "popularity scale" GI Joe and Transformers... just that, given Joe Average off the street, the odds of such a person recognizing Voltron are far better than the odds of them recognizing Robotech. This is a common sense observation based on the recent references to Voltron in popular media as opposed to the lack of same where Robotech is concerned. It feels like you can't think of a way to refute the actual point I'm making, and so you're raising a fuss about trivial wordings.

Being an observant chap, Robelwell202 seems to have gotten my point straightaway with no difficulties... yes, people remember Robotech (at least in mecha circles), but it's not all fond remembrances. In fact, a lot of it isn't fond remembrances if the average Robotech thread on 4chan and the various rousing denunciations and all the usual scorn directed towards the franchise here are anything to go by.

Seto's not neccessarily saying that no one remembers Robotech, since there's obviously a lot of ffolks who do (Look around this site for all the folks who've said that RT was thier gateway to Macross, for starters). What Seto's actually saying is, VOLTRON is remembered much more fondly that ROBOTECH.

Indeed.

The real final straw was when I said on the Robotech.com forums that the crew basically threw the non-cannon storylines into the trash. The day after I posted that, I had my posting privileges over there permanently revoked.

'kay... yeah, I don't think I'll ever understand what some people see in the old Robotech novelizations and comic books. Granted, some of the later ones were about as close to originality as Robotech has ever gotten, but that isn't necessarily any guarantee of quality. In terms of the art and writing, most of them run the gambit between mediocre and awful. I do think trying to mix it up was a good idea, but I'm not sure what to say about what the results became. IMO, the Robotech novelizations by Jack McKinney and the comic book adaptation of Robotech II: the Sentinels were probably the best of it... but the novels were just WEIRD and the Sentinels comics tried and failed to be gritty and mature. Can't imagine why they would've yanked your posting privileges for saying they'd pitched the non-canon stuff... since McKeever spent a good long time saying basically the same thing during an appearance on Space Station Liberty.

I heard at one point that MEMO or some other shmuck said the they wanted the RT boards "controversy-free" because Warner Brothers was watching. I guess now that Steve has become even less active probably means they don't give a sh*t anymore. Or the housing market is booming.

Yep... that was actually something I related in one of this thread's predecessors a while back. It was after I'd gotten into a discussion about how (ironically) Robotech is regarded these days. Partway through a discussion about the dwindling of the online fanbase and negative opinions of Robotech seen on 4chan and elsewhere, it was Maverick_LSC who put the kibosh on it, claiming that Harmony Gold wanted to put its best foot forward and show Warner Bros a united, controversy-free fanbase.

Actually... to add another scoop of irony to this, I'm pretty sure the guy I was talking to at the time was Pizza the Hutt, back before he changed his screen name from Wraith_Knight.

People actually remember Robotech really, really fondly. To a lot of creative individuals especially, its right up there with Starwars. Voltron? Not so much. Voltron gets laughed at more often though... is that really a good thing?

Eh... that might be a bit of a stretch. Yes, there are plenty of people in mecha circles who have fond memories of Robotech. I'm one of them. The are a fair few in there who are creative individuals that work on fan projects. The kicker is that there are plenty in that crowd whose fond memories of Robotech are eclipsed or at least colored by antipathy towards Harmony Gold for their handling of the franchise, their attempts to stop the importation of Macross shows, and other asinine behavior. There are plenty of examples of that right here in this thread.

I would agree, Voltron is usually remembered for yuks. Still the point I was tilting at before we landed on this tangent was that the Voltron name and story still have some resonance with the general public... to the point where people understand references to the show made in popular culture. We just don't see any evidence of that for Robotech... due in no small part to the conspicuous absence of anything like a pop culture reference to Robotech.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[EXO]

Okay... have you actually read what Seto wrote? Since I'm seeing a concentrated lack of comprehension, I'll have to assume you didn't.

Seto's not neccessarily saying that no one remembers Robotech, since there's obviously a lot of ffolks who do (Look around this site for all the folks who've said that RT was thier gateway to Macross, for starters). What Seto's actually saying is, VOLTRON is remembered much more fondly that ROBOTECH.

Get it, now? Good!!!

I'm here to help.

Maybe you should look up the definition of popularity... it means both in numbers and well thought of

PLUS he also wrote this part

Ask the average schmuck off the street, and the odds are he'll remember, or at least have heard of

but I guess this guy will take any help he can get...

And Seto just because I dont use your words verbatim, doesn't mean your implications aren't clear. You did use GI Joe and Transformers in the same sentence as Voltron, implying that Robotech are miles away from popularity from shows like those two, and that Voltron should be considered in the same great heights... I don't have to shove words down your throat... it written by you in plain English.

[Beltane70]

A good point in how well Voltron is remembered than Robotech is the fact that a Voltron parody has been featured on Robot Chicken. A Robotech parody has yet to even be mentioned on the show.

[Keith]

How popular was Voltron during its release? Moderately good if merch is any indication (which it is). Aside from the various import toys, there was a full U.S. toyline which included ugly chunky plastic lions that could fit in some ugly chunky plastic figures, a full castle playset, coloring books, underoo's, book + audio tape story books, really bad still picture video tapes of the aforementioned storybooks, etc.

Robotech? The absolute worst excluse for a toyline ever. I mean really, has there ever been a more mangled toyline in the history of 80's toylines? Matchbox imported the transformable Macross. The chunky donky VF-1S/J monstrosity. And if Monster Squad is any indication, a small run of pajama's. There was also a vastly overpriced giant playset, but I can't imagine that was produced in any large numbers. I don't recall seeing any coloring books, but that isn't to say they weren't there. Fac to fthe matter is, Voltron had much better merch saturation than Robotech did. Oh, and the transformable hovertank..yek! I'm not going to count the re-pimping of the Matchbox toyline under the Exosquad name, since I can't imagine that was anything more than HG threatening to sue Universal, and agreeing to make some extr amerch money instead. Since the Revell Model line technically predates Robotech, I won't count that either.

And as already stated, pop-cutlure has much fonder memories of Voltron, than it ever had of Robotech. The only 2 semi-recent claims to fame I can recall, are "My Time To Be A Star" being in Boogie Nights, and there's a shot of a VF-1 in Gerwalk in the Ren-Fair Vs Sci-Fi con episode of Home Movies (brawl at the end). Jury is still out on whether Space Ball-01 is a parody of the Macross, but I'll give the fanbase that one since it was '87.

Even in sequal properties, Voltron was always stronger. Unlike the Sentinels, the Voltron movie was actually released sucessfully. (didn't say it was good). Unlike the Sentinels, a full production run of U.S. original episodes was made and released, using the original animation studio (not pirating like Robotech continued to do). And out of the gate (and thankfully cancelled after a season), Voltron 3D made a full production season while Robotech 3000 was killed before production got past the promo phase.

Pound for pound, Voltron is the clear winner.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Keith

[Seto Kaiba]

Maybe you should look up the definition of popularity... it means both in numbers and well thought of

Well, Keith's made a pretty good case for the numbers... as has the sheer volume of references in semi-recent popular culture. He's even turned up one unambiguous Robotech pop culture reference! A 100% gain over the previous position! So far, with about five minutes and Google, I've turned up 16 distinct references to Voltron in music alone, plus another 5 in comics, and 18 in television... plus about a dozen more that're harder to classify, including quotations from a New York Giants linebacker by the name of Lavar Arrington.

but I guess this guy will take any help he can get...

Huh... I'm not sure if I should take that as an insult directed at me, Robelwell202, or both. Either way, it seems like you'd much rather attack people than address what they have to say.

And Seto just because I dont use your words verbatim, doesn't mean your implications aren't clear. [...] I don't have to shove words down your throat... it written by you in plain English.

Gee... what could I possibly have said to that a few posts ago by way of clarification that you seem to have conspicuously ignored for the sake of pointing fingers? Oh yeah, this:

In all seriousness, at no point did I intend to assert that Voltron belonged to the same part of what you called the "popularity scale" GI Joe and Transformers

A good point in how well Voltron is remembered than Robotech is the fact that a Voltron parody has been featured on Robot Chicken. A Robotech parody has yet to even be mentioned on the show.

Two or three times, actually... I know they've done at least one for Lion Force Voltron and one for Vehicle Voltron... and that's if you don't count the nine episodes of Titan Maximum as a parody of Voltron, which it pretty much is.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[EXO]

Again, I can admit that Voltron was a smidge more popular than Robotech. I just laugh at how you guys make Voltron seem like it's a 500 pound gorilla and Robotech is a spec in it's shadow... when really they're both just some 80's cartoon that had a chance to be made into live action and a dying fanbase.

Huh... I'm not sure if I should take that as an insult directed at me, Robelwell202, or both.

both