HG and Robotech Debates

[Beltane70]

I think you're wasting your breath there, Seto.

Oh, great, now Yui's posting her ideas on rt.com. This should be entertaining.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Beltane70

[BeyondTheGrave]

No, they've met with Harmony Gold USA at least once since 2001 to discuss exporting the rest of Macross, and rejected Harmony Gold USA's terms. One can hardly blame them, since Harmony Gold USA's terms were almost extortion.

Could you imagine those meetings:

BW: Hey we have more Macross stuff coming out in japan. Figured you would want to actually use the merchandising rights and Trademark for Macross.It's a big hit here we're fairly certain it could be popular all over the world.

HG: Sure. Finally Robotech will get a new series.

BW: Yes Robotech wil.. wait a minute What?!

HG: Yeah will use this to make robotech.

BW: Right.... well we had the idea that you'd want to release it and make some money. Then use that money to invest in your own projects.

HG: If that's the case then we want 90% of the profits and the series license for 75% off.

BW: Your joking right?!

HG: No.

BW: Seriously you don't even have to do much work and you want all that;what's in it for us?

HG: You be working for with Harmony Gold creators of the Critically acclaimed and world renown Robotech.

BW: Okay... You know our Plane leaves in few hours. So we'll call you.

Carl's death had almost no measureable effect on Robotech, except that he was no longer able to attend the disappointing and pathetic 25th anniversary convention tour.

Except for the fact that everything will be in Macek's memory.

[Seto Kaiba]

Oh, great, now Yui's posting her ideas on rt.com. This should be entertaining.

Actually, she posted several threads over there on Robotech.com a day or so before the posted here. Last I'd heard, nobody had responded to any of the three or four threads she posted, primarily because nobody could understand what she was saying. It looks like the only person who's bothered to pay any attention at all over there is MEMO, and he's almost as unintelligible as she is.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I'd like to believe that most Robotech fans out there are decent, sensible people who have their heads screwed on straight and just want to enjoy the nostalgia of watching their favorite childhood show. Unfortunately, the ones I seem to encounter most often are the idiots and the crazies.

Except for the fact that everything will be in Macek's memory.

And yet... every Robotech fan I've talked to at length about this latest project that was allegedly Carl's idea has said that they think it's just Tommy trying to put a bow on that turd in the hope that we'll overlook the stench.

Oh yes, they'll claim everything is being done to honor Carl's memory... but we've seen ample proof that they have precious little respect for Carl's memory, and are quite comfortable using his death to promote projects he had nothing to do with.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[azrael]

Anyone of our more fluent members out there wanna explain, probably in PM, to yui1107, in Japanese, the contents of the first post and point of this thread? Please? Unless she's a Robotech fan...in Japan.

[Renato]

Anyone of our more fluent members out there wanna explain, probably in PM, to yui1107, in Japanese, the contents of the first post and point of this thread? Please? Unless she's a Robotech fan...in Japan.

I would love to, but I'm not sure I understand it all myself. And that's saying something, as I've been following this for TEN YEARS.

[Renato]

Um... while I don't recall precisely who it was who said that, I have a nagging feeling that it was Wanzerfan.

No, it was before his time. Keith was talking about Edo C. Andromedo, or Edo Andromedo C, I forget the correct order. And he used to be fascinated with "Ming-Mei"; I believe his reasons for not watching the movie were because they would ruin his impression of her from the TV show.

[Seto Kaiba]

No, it was before his time. Keith was talking about Edo C. Andromedo, or Edo Andromedo C, I forget the correct order. And he used to be fascinated with "Ming-Mei"; I believe his reasons for not watching the movie were because they would ruin his impression of her from the TV show.

Ah, I see... and if your recollection of that guy's reasoning it sound, then it makes no sense at all.

I guess I misremembered which show Wanzerfan said he disliked without having actually seen it. It might have been Macross 7... but that's hardly a unique condition, eh?

[azrael]

I would love to, but I'm not sure I understand it all myself. And that's saying something, as I've been following this for TEN YEARS.

Well, you can try with the BW v. Tatsunoko and the Tatsunoko v. Bandai court documents. Those are in Japanese. And yes, I'm well aware that court documents, in any language is an excruciatingly painful labor to understand but hey, it's a start.

[Legioss]

Yui, Harmony Gold does almost nothing with Robotech. Your Harmony Gold does more. Asking Big West to make a deal with Harmony Gold is like asking them to make a deal with me. Macross Frontier is their business. If they ever need SDF Macross, they could re-animate it if they wanted to.

Harmony Gold at first only had a right to distribute the SDF Macross series and make merchandise based on it outside of Japan. These are the rights that Big West sold to Tatsunoko to get the SDF Macross animation finished. It doesn't include the designs in new animation which Big West still has. Tatsunoko licensed those rights to Harmony Gold.

Then, in 1999, Harmony Gold registered the trademark "Macross" in the United States and got that right on their own, even though they did not create anything for Macross. In the past, they were in the right place in the right time to attract hundreds of skilled people in one place. It was a one time event. Today, they are not very good at creating things on the rare occasion they try to. The things they create are amateurish and substandard. If you've seen Shadow Chronicles, in my opinion you could tell that they are unable to act as proper representatives of Big West. Neither are they a real distribution company like Funimation or Bandai.

I don't know where you got your information about Harmony Gold, but somebody has told you some lies about them to make them look better than they really are. Harmony Gold is a group of real estate agents who go around to anime conventions trying to convince people Robotech is still active. Their Macross DYRL products exist to prove their finding that they also have rights to distribute merchandise based on DYRL.

Maybe you didn't realize calling yourself "Harmony Gold Japan" is like calling yourself "someone who works very slowly in Japan".

Just this once, I'm going to crosspost this here and RDF-HQ so you see it.

[Keith]

Or better HG Japan would translate as "Leeching off Japan for 25 years!"

[Einherjar]

Again, the confidence people have for those running this show is amazing. On their own merits, they have not done enough to prove they can maintain their own franchise, especially when they have to ask permission from other companies to get some ideas going or protect their "investments." Most important of all, they don't actually make stuff themselves.

[Seto Kaiba]

Or better HG Japan would translate as "Leeching off Japan for 25 years!"

Eh... really, I think the term "Harmony Gold" would translate much more readily and gracefully into something a bit simpler, like "parasitism" or "serial plagiarist". It's quite tricky to find a word or a pithy little phrase which can neatly encapsulate all the sins of twenty-five years of bad business practices and monumental ineptitude. They got lucky when they came up with a neat little term like "Macekre" to describe the creative process.

Again, the confidence people have for those running this show is amazing. On their own merits, they have not done enough to prove they can maintain their own franchise, especially when they have to ask permission from other companies to get some ideas going or protect their "investments." Most important of all, they don't actually make stuff themselves.

At times like this, I'm reminded of an old adage attributed to P.T. Barnum:

"There's a sucker born every minute."

Just about anyone is going to find the level of confidence many Robotech fans seem to have in Harmony Gold's "abilities" profoundly unnatural until they take stock of what Harmony Gold has actually been doing in the past twenty-five years. Rather than devote their fullest attention to the production of new material and trying to do something original with the franchise, Harmony Gold has put a frightening amount of time, money, and energy making it appear their creative input into Robotech was far greater than it actually was. They've capitalized on the ignorance of the fans using exaggeration, deceptive wordings, and occasionally outright lies to make them appear capable and talented when all they've ever actually done (with the sole exception of Robotech 3000) is rehash someone else's work. It's gotten to the point where they're rehashing their rehashes just to keep the ball rolling. Just look at Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles... it's practically worthy of M.C. Escher.

• Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles is a rehash of the Robotech II: the Sentinels comic books by Jason and John Waltrip, and Robotech's "New Generation".
• Jason and John Waltrip's run of Robotech II: the Sentinels comic books are, in turn, rehashes of the old Robotech II: the Sentinels novelizations by James Luceno and Brian Daley, though they didn't stick to the source material.
• James Luceno and Brian Daley's novelizations of Robotech II: the Sentinels are, at least in theory, just a rehash of Carl Macek's planned-but-not-completed Robotech II: the Sentinels TV series. (In practice, the novels were more like a rehash that went snoop-the-loopy halfway through)
• Carl Macek's incomplete Robotech II: the Sentinels series was a rehash of the Robotech TV series Macross Saga and Robotech Masters Saga, and also drew on some minor elements of Robotech: the Untold Story.
• Robotech: the Untold Story was a rehash of Megazone 23 that borrowed from Southern Cross.
• The three sagas of the original 85 episode Robotech series are rehashes/rewrites of the original Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada.

And there you have it... the Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles movie represents the fourth consecutive rehashing of the same old material to produce a sequel. We're still dealing with the same core cast of characters and their close relatives, with the same mecha, the same ships, the same plot devices, and we're still retreading the same damn story. I can only guess that Harmony Gold thinks that the creative process works like vodka distilling, that the more times they distill the same material, the better it gets.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Dynaman]

In the past, they were in the right place in the right time to attract hundreds of skilled people in one place. It was a one time event.

They were? Only time I can remember was the brief (very brief) moment when they had the funding for The Sentinels in place, and that fell apart very quickly - seemed a ramshackle enterprise at best (but I don't really know all that much about it). Is the Sentinels what you are referring to?

[Gubaba]

They were? Only time I can remember was the brief (very brief) moment when they had the funding for The Sentinels in place, and that fell apart very quickly - seemed a ramshackle enterprise at best (but I don't really know all that much about it). Is the Sentinels what you are referring to?

I think he meant they had the POTENTIAL to attract hundreds of talented people, but squandered that opportunity.

[terry the lone wolf]

Looks like the Sentinels is back; there's a link between Macross Saga and The Masters on the RT timeline.

http://www.robotech.com/series/?seriescode=SEN

[waters7]

Looks like the Sentinels is back; there's a link between Macross Saga and The Masters on the RT timeline.

http://www.robotech.com/series/?seriescode=SEN

That link has been there forever

It does not provide any relevant information outside of a brief mention

[Dynaman]

That link has been there forever

It does not provide any relevant information outside of a brief mention

And why should it be any different from the rest of the RT website?

[RDClip]

So since Tatsunoko has the international rights to SDF Macross, about how much money does HG pay to them. Is it a percentage of the profits or just a licensing fee?

Related to that, does anyone ever think Tatsunoko will ever end their business relationship with HG?

[Dynaman]

So since Tatsunoko has the international rights to SDF Macross, about how much money does HG pay to them. Is it a percentage of the profits or just a licensing fee?

Not a penny. HG paid for the rights upfront, which was quite a good deal for them. (If I have the terms of the original HG deal correct, can't imagine anyone making an open ended deal like that any more)

[Seto Kaiba]

Looks like the Sentinels is back; there's a link between Macross Saga and The Masters on the RT timeline.

http://www.robotech....?seriescode=SEN

Eh... as waters7 pointed out, that links has been there for ages.

In practice, Harmony Gold's explanation of how Robotech II: the Sentinels fits into the continuity establishes that things generally didn't happen as depicted in the aborted animation, novels, comic books, etc. Only the so-called "broad strokes" of the Sentinels story arc are considered accurate (namely, that the SDF-3 was shipped off on a mission to find the RT Masters), up to the conclusion of that particular arc in Prelude.

Of course, when you take stock of Prelude and realize it's a continuation of the nominally non-canon Robotech II: the Sentinels comic books by Jason and John Waltrip... that opens up a whole new avenue of WTF.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Funkenstein]

So since Tatsunoko has the international rights to SDF Macross, about how much money does HG pay to them. Is it a percentage of the profits or just a licensing fee?

Related to that, does anyone ever think Tatsunoko will ever end their business relationship with HG?

Even if they ended their business arrangement, HG still has rights to the Macross trademark.

For 5 years anyway. Then HG would be up the creek.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Funkenstein

[Warmaker]

It has been YEARS since I dived into one of these threads. And unfortunately nothing has changed, especially for BW.

[Seto Kaiba]

It has been YEARS since I dived into one of these threads. And unfortunately nothing has changed, especially for BW.

Um... actually, quite a few things have changed over the past few years. It's just that the changes didn't include the disappearance of the legal roadblocks preventing Big West from doing an end-run around Harmony Gold and distributing Macross in the US over their objections.

[Wanzerfan]

Ah, I see... and if your recollection of that guy's reasoning it sound, then it makes no sense at all.

I guess I misremembered which show Wanzerfan said he disliked without having actually seen it. It might have been Macross 7... but that's hardly a unique condition, eh?

It was the latter half of Macross Plus I couldn't stand. It was almost as bad as that freaking Escaflowne movie. Edited September 9, 2010 by Wanzerfan

[Gubaba]

It was the latter half of Macross Plus I couldn't stand. It was almost as bad as that freaking Escaflowne movie.

That little "plip plip" sound you hear is the last few drops of your credibility dribbling away...

[ps99042]

NEW Robotech update regarding the new unnamed "movie":

UPDATE FROM SPANISH PODCAST

1.GOING FINE.

2.DOING DIGITAL WORK

3.PRELIMINARY EDITORIAL

4.LOOKING AT PROCESSES IN PUTTING IT TOGETHER AND TECHNOLOGY THAT HAS CHANGED SINCE WORKING ON SHADOW CHRONICLES.

5.GUARANTEED TO BE OUT ON DVD, NETFLIX AND HULU.

6.HG WILL LOOK INTO THEATRICAL RELEASE (POSSIBLY LIKE THEY DID WITH SHADOW CHRONICLES).

Does any of this actually mean anything?

[Seto Kaiba]

It was the latter half of Macross Plus I couldn't stand. It was almost as bad as that freaking Escaflowne movie.

Uh... okay, Wanz? In the future, do yourself a little favor and end your posts one sentence earlier. I've gone out on a limb plenty of times to defend you to Gubaba and a few others, but when you say things like that I have to ask... really, are you a Macross fan? Apart from the Macross II: Lovers Again OVA/movie, is there a Macross series you actually like? Level with me here dude, because I'm REALLY starting to wonder.

NEW Robotech update regarding the new unnamed "movie":

[...]

Does any of this actually mean anything?

Considering that it was typed entirely in caps, I'm going to assume it's the handiwork of MEMO... which is pretty much an automatic "No." any way you shake it. It looks like exactly the same sort of flimflam routine MEMO and Maverick_LSC were doing for the live action movie. They took what little information was actually available and blew it all out of proportion, and then started posting their theories about it as fact. As far as I'm aware, all that has actually been confirmed about this project is that it's supposedly in editing and that it'll be some kind of side story irrelevant to the ongoing plot of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles.

It occurs to me that "SPANISH PODCAST" was mentioned as the source... that almost certainly means JuanRT is involved, which is just a further hit against the credibility of this supposed "news".

[Keith]

Looks like they forgot to mention that it's going to be distrubted by Asylum Entertainment!

[Renato]

It occurs to me that "SPANISH PODCAST" was mentioned as the source... that almost certainly means JuanRT is involved, which is just a further hit against the credibility of this supposed "news".

?? You mean JuanRT = Shaloom??

[Funkenstein]

NEW Robotech update regarding the new unnamed "movie":

UPDATE FROM SPANISH PODCAST

1.GOING FINE.

2.DOING DIGITAL WORK

3.PRELIMINARY EDITORIAL

4.LOOKING AT PROCESSES IN PUTTING IT TOGETHER AND TECHNOLOGY THAT HAS CHANGED SINCE WORKING ON SHADOW CHRONICLES.

5.GUARANTEED TO BE OUT ON DVD, NETFLIX AND HULU.

6.HG WILL LOOK INTO THEATRICAL RELEASE (POSSIBLY LIKE THEY DID WITH SHADOW CHRONICLES).

Does any of this actually mean anything?

Technology that has changed since Shadow Chronicles = They will probably use the same CG developers for the fanwank short story.

[Einherjar]

Does any of this actually mean anything?

If it's not getting attention by more creditable sources, I wouldn't believe it. Stuff like this happened with the Space Station Liberty podcast, and look where that ended up.

[Seto Kaiba]

?? You mean JuanRT = Shaloom??

Nah... at the very least, Shaloom wasn't openly malicious in his bullshitting.

To be blunt, JuanRT is cut from the same cloth as DougBendo and MEMO1DOMINION. His podcast is less about news that's relevant to the Robotech franchise, and more about pushing his own personal agenda and that of his friend MEMO. He's one of those militant members of the Robotech lunatic fringe who sees anyone with a different opinion as not being a "real Robotech fan" or a "Macross purist troll".

Technology that has changed since Shadow Chronicles = They will probably use the same CG developers for the fanwank short story.

One of the things I remember hearing during my brief tenure on RobotechX before MEMO went all ban-happy was that one of the things Harmony Gold was showing around to raise interest for Shadow Rising was footage taken from Shadow Chronicles redone with marginally improved animation quality. It was supposedly trotted out at a few conventions, but since I don't do that scene I have no idea if it actually was.

If it's not getting attention by more creditable sources, I wouldn't believe it. Stuff like this happened with the Space Station Liberty podcast, and look where that ended up.

Eh... is there really anything out there that we could call a credible source of Robotech news anymore? It seems like the only people putting news out there anymore are provably untrustworthy people like MEMO, and lunatic fringe fans who see spinning things in Harmony Gold's failure as a ticket to legitimacy and self-advancement.

[taksraven]

No, there were some major changes...

The biggest change was making 'Protoculture' into this amazing substance that comes from the Flower of Life, and generates huge amounts of power (But a power source that people keep running out of).

Secondly, the SDF-1 was supposedly destroyed as it stodd back-to-back with the phantom SDF-2.

There's a whole list of smaller changes, but that's all I can think of right now...

Those things aren't "changes", they are "corruptions".

Taksraven

[taksraven]

It was the latter half of Macross Plus I couldn't stand. It was almost as bad as that freaking Escaflowne movie.

The Wanzerfan tradition. The mouth is opened, the foot is inserted, then the bashing begins. I too was once more sympathetic to this guy, but Jesus Christ he is pushing it.......

Taksraven

[anime52k8]

Those things aren't "changes", they are "corruptions".

Taksraven

R̳͇̱̯O̢̰̭͈̙̠̩̥B̹́O̴̰͈̖T̟͎̙̦̦͚E̖̫͔̖̟̍̽ͥ̍͟ͅC͇̭̫͔̣ͥ͊̓ͦ͋͌H͉̭̩͙̙̿͊̄ͪ͛̅͠,̺͉͇̘̫͙͍͆̈́ ̟̖̪ͣ̀͐̏̄ͩ̀̚I̹̙̙̦̣ͥ̅T̮͑ ̠͓͓͈͎̟̓̽͑ͤ͊̓͗́C̻ͮ͌͋̄̈O͍̣̘͍̮̣̾͆̀ͩͮͪM̨͇̬͚̦̟͎̖̓̍ͣ͑̅E̼̳͌̀̋̿ͩ͠S̞̫̗͉̯͟.̏҉̗.̊̍ͥ̍.͈̩̪̥͕̑̐̎ ̩̙̯͈͗ͩͧ̍

Edited September 10, 2010 by anime52k8