HG and Robotech Debates

[Jasonc]

DragonBall from what I hear was an absolute train wreck...imo the verdict is not out yet on GI Joe, lets see how the sequal goes. Voltron was scratched and Speed Racer was a decent movie to watch in the background while you are surfing the web or eating breakfast. I saw something the other day about Akira and Bepop, looking forward to those two.

As for HG, there is very little left for me to express that hasn't been already...pity there are those out there that actually have hope in the franchise. If they actually release something new it'd be great to critique, but thats not going to happen anytime soon. So who is in for a Macross Frontier marathon?

Sign me up. It'd be great to watch it with fellow fans. In all honesty, I wouldn't mind seeing a Robotech movie if done right. There's a catch to that though. In order to do the movie, they'd need to literally redesign everything. That said, how much of it is gonna actually feel like Robotech? Take away some of the essence that made it so popular, and you're left with something of a shallow hull of a series that only has the name Robotech on it. I'm not a fan that thinks that everything that has the Robotech logo is perfect. Hell, some we know would put crap on a stick, put the Robotech lable on it, and they'd pay through the nose for it. Same with this movie, and some are touting that as the new golden age of a once forgotten franchise (probably still forgotten). If there's any chance this movie gets done, it's all WB's doing. If it does well, it's all WB's doing, if it "revives Robotech" it's all thanks to WB. While I doubt the train goes even remotely that far, the common factor remains, HG has nothing to do with it. WB buying the frachise would be the best thing for HG. I wonder if the staff at HG know that it would probably mean them going back to being a comic artist, a shuttle driver, and a bootleg DVD burner job?

[azrael]

I said this many times and I'll repeat it again, chances of WB using the animated designs is very slim and will look different. Legal issues aside, animated designs probably won't translate well to the big-screen. Especially 25-year old designs. If they could, (like Speed Racer), it would probably look silly.

[Einherjar]

HG has their image to hold, and while I can understand that, don't tell me that the house isn't on fire when there's flames bursting out of the windows with smoke, the roof is about to cave in, and the fire truck is spraying water all over the thing. I always thought they'd do so much better by just being straight forward in everything, but I think their snow ball is now an avalanche, and they can't start now.

Seriously, what image? The whole company's role is behind the scenes work for other people's stuff. If it wasn't for the legalities involving Macross, no one would ever know what Harmony Gold is or care. It would be one of those names in fine print people ignore in opening and ending credits for various shows.

Again, I think people are still confusing the company as something that does more in the entertainment business, like making stuff.

[Jasonc]

Seriously, what image? The whole company's role is behind the scenes work for other people's stuff. If it wasn't for the legalities involving Macross, no one would ever know what Harmony Gold is or care. It would be one of those names in fine print people ignore in opening and ending credits for various shows.

Again, I think people are still confusing the company as something that does more in the entertainment business, like making stuff.

See, you, me, and many others know that, but to them, they need to put up the image that they are running $hit, and have everything under control. Wether that be to sell off the franchise, or to appease skeptical fans, no company wants to look bad in public, or show that they can't deliver on what they say. For that, HG tries real hard to sound like their poo doesn't stink.

[Seto Kaiba]

Seriously, what image? The whole company's role is behind the scenes work for other people's stuff. If it wasn't for the legalities involving Macross, no one would ever know what Harmony Gold is or care. It would be one of those names in fine print people ignore in opening and ending credits for various shows.

Oh, most any company is going to care about how it's perceived by its prospective customer base. As far as the idiots at Harmony Gold are concerned, the question of maintaining their "image" is less a matter of ensuring the rest of the industry thinks they're a competent outfit, and more about ensuring their phony baloney jobs remain safe by keeping what remains of the loyal Robotech consumer base convinced exciting things are happening and that they're the ones responsible for it all. It's no accident that so many Robotech fans mistake Harmony Gold for a company that actually produces its own content... that's how Tommy Yune, and Carl Macek before him, stayed on the payroll.

Wether that be to sell off the franchise, or to appease skeptical fans, no company wants to look bad in public, or show that they can't deliver on what they say. For that, HG tries real hard to sound like their poo doesn't stink.

Indeed... an endeavor aided in no small measure by the sad fact that many Robotech fans seem to actually want to be lied to. Plenty of loyal, long-time Robotech fans want to allay their fears that they've wasted decades on a franchise that has yet to make good on promises it made back in 1986, and as such will happily accept even the flimsiest lies about how popular and well-respected Robotech is in the anime industry.

[taksraven]

I said this many times and I'll repeat it again, chances of WB using the animated designs is very slim and will look different. Legal issues aside, animated designs probably won't translate well to the big-screen. Especially 25-year old designs. If they could, (like Speed Racer), it would probably look silly.

And the same has been for the Transformers film series. But christ, the new designs are shite!!

Indeed... an endeavor aided in no small measure by the sad fact that many Robotech fans seem to actually want to be lied to. Plenty of loyal, long-time Robotech fans want to allay their fears that they've wasted decades on a franchise that has yet to make good on promises it made back in 1986, and as such will happily accept even the flimsiest lies about how popular and well-respected Robotech is in the anime industry.

You just have to look at some of the RT Facebook pages to realise what a bunch of desperate degenerates most RT fans are. Some were even stupid enough to be hoping that trailers for the RT:LAM were going to start to appear on the convention circuit this year!! FFS!!!

[Seto Kaiba]

And the same has been for the Transformers film series. But christ, the new designs are shite!!

Eh... really, I think you're both drawing a bit of an apples-and-oranges comparison between the mecha designs of Macross and those of Transformers Generation 1. Just going from what I've heard about the production of the "Bayformers" movie, one of the main problems they had in adapting the familiar designs of G1 Transformers into something halfway believable for the silver screen is that almost all of them treat conservation of mass as more of a polite suggestion than a universal law. Something like the inexplicable disappearance and reappearance of Optimus Prime's trailer could be dealt with, but there's no rationalizing G1 Soundwave and Megatron's amazing and inexplicable ability to alter their body mass to such a worrying extent that they can pass for a human-scale cassette deck (which isn't that inconspicuous these days) or a pistol small and light enough to be used by other Decepticons one-handed. Sufficed to say, they have a whole host of issues that would make them unfeasible or ridiculous looking as a straight port-over from their animated counterparts. By in large, Macross's mecha designs have no such drawbacks, which would work in their favor if a straight-up adaptation were to be made... in that case, the main beef would be that we don't fly F-14s anymore. ^^;

You just have to look at some of the RT Facebook pages to realise what a bunch of desperate degenerates most RT fans are. Some were even stupid enough to be hoping that trailers for the RT:LAM were going to start to appear on the convention circuit this year!! FFS!!!

Ah, yeah... it was more or less inevitable that this year's convention tour would have the increasingly desperate die-hard Robotech fans praying for news of big things to validate their misplaced faith in the franchise. I can only guess at how stupid one would have to be to think there was a chance they'd be showing the trailer for the live action movie on this year's convention tour when the proposed movie doesn't even have a script yet. At least all the mooks who were holding their breath waiting for a Robotech: Shadow Rising trailer this year had some cause to suspect it... since they at least started making that one before putting the brakes on it while they waited for Warner to unf*ck their reputation.

Still, I suppose it's to be expected... the paid trolls at Harmony Gold and their ringleaders, Carl Macek and Tommy Yune, have put decades of work into making the Robotech fandom a herd of ignorant cattle who'd make even the most inbred backwoods redneck look positively on the ball by comparison. All that's left of the Robotech fandom is the blindly faithful core demographic of 30+ year old men waiting patiently for the sequel that will never come, and the few newcomers who've just discovered anime and will, more often than not, come to their senses and drop Robotech for a show that actually has potential.

EDIT: I just finished reading the "Scale" article on Teletraan 1... and just about laughed myself sick.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[azrael]

By in large, Macross's mecha designs have no such drawbacks, which would work in their favor if a straight-up adaptation were to be made... in that case, the main beef would be that we don't fly F-14s anymore. ^^;

I once pointed to Takayuki Yanase's site (Mobile Suit Gundam 00, Darker than Black) for his F-22-bot artwork. Any better?

All that's left of the Robotech fandom is the blindly faithful core demographic of 30+ year old men waiting patiently for the sequel that will never come, and the few newcomers who've just discovered anime and will, more often than not, come to their senses and drop Robotech for a show that actually has potential.

I would think most people who discover anime would probably skip RT over the hoard of other shows and the new ones that come out every TV season.

[Seto Kaiba]

I once pointed to Takayuki Yanase's site (Mobile Suit Gundam 00, Darker than Black) for his F-22-bot artwork. Any better?

Okay, the feet don't really work that well... but that's still kinda badass.

I would think most people who discover anime would probably skip RT over the hoard of other shows and the new ones that come out every TV season.

Eh... that's why there aren't that many incoming fans in the Robotech fanbase. There was a brief boom where a fair few new people were coming in back in ~2002-2004, but that was mostly word-of-mouth introduction and the hype from the brief uptick of interest they're praising as a revival these days... most of the people who came in during that period had an average tenure of about a year before getting sick of Robotech's lack of forward motion and seeking greener pastures.

[Freiflug88]

I said this many times and I'll repeat it again, chances of WB using the animated designs is very slim and will look different. Legal issues aside, animated designs probably won't translate well to the big-screen. Especially 25-year old designs. If they could, (like Speed Racer), it would probably look silly.

IMO wasn't so much the 25 year old designs that made Speed Racer look silly, it was the way they purposely did the CG effects to make the movie look cartoonish.

in that case, the main beef would be that we don't fly F-14s anymore. ^^;

Who cares we still have Top Gun re-runs

[Dynaman]

IMO wasn't so much the 25 year old designs that made Speed Racer look silly, it was the way they purposely did the CG effects to make the movie look cartoonish.

I kinda liked that part of it, the action sequences made we want to hurl though - and not just because they were bad.

[Einherjar]

So yeah, this is out of topic, but I felt there was appropriate satire for this situation as well. I'll leave it up to you.

http://www.tvsquad.com/2010/08/27/matt-groening-mocks-the-fox-network-on-futurama-video/

[Seto Kaiba]

IMO wasn't so much the 25 year old designs that made Speed Racer look silly, it was the way they purposely did the CG effects to make the movie look cartoonish.

Still... not the best decision they could've made under the circumstances. It's not like they would've found anyone objecting to it if they'd gone for something a bit more realistic and serious, since the vast majority of people who saw Speed Racer on television are in their fifties now. Who knows? Perhaps the producers of Transformers felt at least a little bit more secure in their decisions knowing that no matter what they did the majority of Transformers fans were going to hate it and spend months or even years whining themselves inside-out about it. At least the producers of the live action Robotech movie have nothing to fear either way, since any bleating about its fate on the part of the existing fanbase is at best going to be the shrilling of a handful of belligerents.

Who cares we still have Top Gun re-runs

So yeah, this is out of topic, but I felt there was appropriate satire for this situation as well. I'll leave it up to you.

http://www.tvsquad.c...futurama-video/

Damn... lol. That's a speed cancellation fit to rival even the fastest project collapses in Robotech's history.

[waters7]

So yeah, this is out of topic, but I felt there was appropriate satire for this situation as well. I'll leave it up to you.

http://www.tvsquad.com/2010/08/27/matt-groening-mocks-the-fox-network-on-futurama-video/

This is funny as hell.

Seto, I keep reading about how supposedly Robotech's production was influenced by a network executive. I would like you to provide a link to this information. As far as I remember, the only mention of a network in the Robotech production history was made when Macek mentioned that he used NBC's Child Programing guidelines as reference while producing Robotech.

I also find it very odd that a Network executive will have a say on the production, specially since Robotech was made for syndication.

[Seto Kaiba]

Seto, I keep reading about how supposedly Robotech's production was influenced by a network executive. I would like you to provide a link to this information.

IIRC, it was in the discussion of the Robotech production process in one of the Robotech Art books that someone had brought to my attention at the time. Sorry I can't be more precise, but you are asking about a discussion we had nearly three months ago. I would consult my copies of the books for you, but I've long since crated up all of my Robotech stuff and put it in storage because nobody in what remains of the Robotech fandom talks about the show anymore.

[waters7]

IIRC, it was in the discussion of the Robotech production process in one of the Robotech Art books that someone had brought to my attention at the time. Sorry I can't be more precise, but you are asking about a discussion we had nearly three months ago. I would consult my copies of the books for you, but I've long since crated up all of my Robotech stuff and put it in storage because nobody in what remains of the Robotech fandom talks about the show anymore.

I actually have all 4 Robotech artbooks at hand and neither Artbook 1 or 3 (the ones that detail Robotech and Robotech II production process respectively) make mention of a network executive providing "feedback" for the production of Robotech or Robotech II.

Again, is rather odd that a network executive will provide feedback on a show that is specifically produced for syndication and not for his/her network.

[RedWolf]

EDIT: I just finished reading the "Scale" article on Teletraan 1... and just about laughed myself sick.

Content providers pretty much abandoned that site.

Moved everything here.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page

[Seto Kaiba]

I actually have all 4 Robotech artbooks at hand and neither Artbook 1 or 3 make mention of a network executive providing "feedback" for the production of Robotech or Robotech II.

Eh... well, then I don't know what to tell you. It must have been something I gleaned from one of my occasional interactions with the handful of influential 85ers I keep in touch with. It had to have come from a source that I'd rate as at least reasonably reliable, otherwise my inherent scholarly distrust for anecdotal evidence would have caused me to ignore it entirely. I have an excellent memory for detail, but I'm not perfect... and to be fair, you're asking after minutae from a three-month old conversation.

The odd circumstances you're citing are explained in the original anecdote though.

Content providers pretty much abandoned that site.

Moved everything here.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page

Ah, I see... yeah, it's not at all surprising that something like that slipped past me unnoticed. I am, after all, not exactly a fan of Transformers. I've got fond childhood memories of the original Transformers Generation 1 series and Transformers: the Movie, but beyond that... nothin'. Didn't bother looking into the comics, and caught only a few episodes of later shows (incl. Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and Armada)... none of which were to my taste.

[Einherjar]

See, you, me, and many others know that, but to them, they need to put up the image that they are running $hit, and have everything under control. Wether that be to sell off the franchise, or to appease skeptical fans, no company wants to look bad in public, or show that they can't deliver on what they say. For that, HG tries real hard to sound like their poo doesn't stink.

And these days, I think that is why things like MEMO1DOMINION and the robotechespanol podcast exists, or at least elevated in importance by the associations they have made. Before them was things like the Space Station Liberty podcast and people like Darkwater before they understood what was going on. But, I don't know if Protoculture Addicts also fits anywhere in this pattern.

And then, there was the entire anime industry and the heavy influence Carl Macek had in it. At least, that was how I saw it prior to his death. I find it interesting that news outlets don't even care about this new unknown production announced this year. No convention panel reports from anyone about it from those who usually report on them, who are not obsessed fans. That ban worthy picture should have been more significant to talk about compared to the previous years, like when they announced were doing Shadow Rising and a Hollywood movie with no physical evidence that things were happening. It's as if they were forced to put up with it this whole time.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Einherjar

[waters7]

Eh... well, then I don't know what to tell you. It must have been something I gleaned from one of my occasional interactions with the handful of influential 85ers I keep in touch with. It had to have come from a source that I'd rate as at least reasonably reliable, otherwise my inherent scholarly distrust for anecdotal evidence would have caused me to ignore it entirely. I have an excellent memory for detail, but I'm not perfect... and to be fair, you're asking after minutae from a three-month old conversation.

This sounds like an explanation from Shaloom (macross generation)

Moving forward.

When did Tommy became "one of the leading japanese anime artists in the world"?

http://cbs13.com/video/?id=75957

And these days, I think that is why things like MEMO1DOMINION and the robotechespanol podcast exists

Have you ever heard that podcast?

A few weeks ago both MEMO and Juan were talking about Macross the First manga and MEMO went on a streak of claims.

According to him, Macross II and some other TV show use Robotech as inspiration for their production on concepts.

Of course, he fails to even explain or back up his claims but hey, he is the voice of Tommy in the spanish community right?

[Jasonc]

This sounds like an explanation from Shaloom (macross generation)

Moving forward.

When did Tommy became "one of the leading japanese anime artists in the world"?

http://cbs13.com/video/?id=75957

Have you ever heard that podcast?

A few weeks ago both MEMO and Juan were talking about Macross the First manga and MEMO went on a streak of claims.

According to him, Macross II and some other TV show use Robotech as inspiration for their production on concepts.

Of course, he fails to even explain or back up his claims but hey, he is the voice of Tommy in the spanish community right?

There should be no reason why people question why Robotech is losing steam. Even if HG was on the up and up with things, there's always gonna be some "fans" who will help bring down the franchise and not even know it. Instead of working so hard on keeping the animosity going within their fandom, perhaps they should be working on less conflict, and more fan related stuff. I've noticed while browsing rtx, that all the topics are more on debate, rather than the actual series, story, and mecha. The priorities are all messed up.

[azrael]

I find it interesting that news outlets don't even care about this new unknown production announced this year. No convention panel reports from anyone about it from those who usually report on them, who are not obsessed fans. That ban worthy picture should have been more significant to talk about compared to the previous years, like when they announced were doing Shadow Rising and a Hollywood movie with no physical evidence that things were happening. It's as if they were forced to put up with it this whole time.

Because it wasn't a formal announcement. Just a "Hey, we're working on something..." It wasn't given any set name or date or even if it was locked in for release. So why report a maybe...

... I've noticed while browsing rtx, that all the topics are more on debate, rather than the actual series, story, and mecha. The priorities are all messed up.

They have nothing left to talk about except comparing the size of their 'Net penis. No new shows/books/comics, not much in merchandise...Nothing.

[Seto Kaiba]

This sounds like an explanation from Shaloom (macross generation)

Oh yeah, that's a tactful thing to say to someone you're asking for information... no way in hell I could possibly take offense over that. In all seriousness, I don't remember. Do you remember the brand of bread that was in the sandwich you had for lunch three months ago today? Probably not. Still, not being able to provide you with the answer you seek isn't sitting right with me, so I'm undertaking to dig through my chat logs, e-mails, and forum private messages looking for an answer for you.

Moving forward.

When did Tommy became "one of the leading japanese anime artists in the world"?

Eh... my guess would be around the time some public relations person at Harmony Gold decided that calling him that made him sound more impressive... as a more accurate description of his achievements and standing in the industry would make him sound singularly unimpressive and robbed the piece of much of the intended impact. It certainly wasn't the first time they stretched the truth past the point of absurdity in the name of promoting their hackneyed mess.

A few weeks ago both MEMO and Juan were talking about Macross the First manga and MEMO went on a streak of claims.

According to him, Macross II and some other TV show use Robotech as inspiration for their production on concepts.

Of course, he fails to even explain or back up his claims but hey, he is the voice of Tommy in the spanish community right?

Actually... to be fair, that isn't an original claim by any means. In fact, it looks like MEMO was paraphrasing some statements Carl Macek had made to similar effect (chiefly concerning the story) in a "fan interview" published on May 21st, 2001. You can find the pertinent quotations in part 2 of the 3-part piece... about two-thirds of the way down the page in response to a question by Robotech.com user Ein. For your convenience, here is the section MEMO was probably drawing on:

Carl Macek says: First the storyline of Macross has major flaws, primarily the concept of "music" as a weapon to be used against the alien invaders - these flaws have been addressed in the subsequent exploitation of the Macross franchise in Japan - in fact it seems that these new variations on Macross seem to be influenced more by Robotech than by an outgrowth of the Macross plot. That said, the goal of Robotech was to create an original program that could be sold to a worldwide audience.

Utter poppycock, of course... considering that this interview was conducted just a few years after the release of Macross Dynamite 7... and that the interim titles had been Macross II: Lovers Again, Macross Plus, and Macross 7... most of which place at least as much importance on music as the original series, and most substantially more so.

There should be no reason why people question why Robotech is losing steam. Even if HG was on the up and up with things, there's always gonna be some "fans" who will help bring down the franchise and not even know it. Instead of working so hard on keeping the animosity going within their fandom, perhaps they should be working on less conflict, and more fan related stuff. I've noticed while browsing rtx, that all the topics are more on debate, rather than the actual series, story, and mecha. The priorities are all messed up.

... as has been pointed out many a time before now, the vehement debates were a large part of what kept the online fandom chugging along in the period between the first major fansites popping up in the late 90's and the lukewarm reception of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles in '06-'07. The animosity is practically a fundamental part of Robotech fandom... they kept themselves entertained for a decade or more squabbling over whether the series or the irreverent novelizations was the superior version. Unless things have really turned around since I was banned from Robotech.com, it was practically an article of faith among active Robotech fans that the novels were rubbish and the people who cited them in discussion were treading a thin line between "contributor" and "troll". Lamentably, some Robotech fans (like MEMO) see such conflicts as avenues for personal advancement and do what they can to ensure they continue unabated. Until those individuals are singled out and removed, or at least lose the ability to enforce their position by abuse of moderator power, the Robotech fanbase will never get the chance to straighten out its priorities.

They have nothing left to talk about except comparing the size of their 'Net penis. No new shows/books/comics, not much in merchandise...Nothing.

Which is, I think, at least part of why they react to discussion of Macross with such hostility. True, they've spent the last decade or so being told that Macross is inferior garbage fit only for "correction" and inclusion in Robotech. Still, it's no stretch to picture them as finding discussions of new and exciting things happening in Macross to be irritating... to the point of seeing it as implicit bragging... because of their frustration with the lack of similar movement from Harmony Gold.

(The only analogy I can really think of for this is the irration you see in guys who've just broken up with their girlfriends and have to endure a friend waxing poetic about his new girlfriend. )

Edited August 30, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Beltane70]

And then, there was the entire anime industry and the heavy influence Carl Macek had in it. At least, that was how I saw it prior to his death.

I never considered Carl Macek's inflence in the anime industry to be all that heavy.

[Einherjar]

Because it wasn't a formal announcement. Just a "Hey, we're working on something..." It wasn't given any set name or date or even if it was locked in for release. So why report a maybe...

Then what was news regarding Shadow Rising and the live action movie in the previous years? Those should have been formal announcements considering the reports made for them. Or not, after getting postponed and stuff. Although vague, it gave a hint that they and others might have been doing something. And didn't Shadow Rising have a projected release date the first time around or other times? What makes this year's panel presentations different? If they weren't formal announcements for anything, why did they spend the time and effort to make an appearance back then and even now?

All I'm saying is people may have been reporting "maybes" all this time.

Edited August 30, 2010 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

I never considered Carl Macek's inflence in the anime industry to be all that heavy.

Nor did I... particularly since his supposed magnum opus, Robotech, failed to produce a viable sequel and was all but forgotten in the span of only a few short years. I guess he has a lasting influence as one of the most reviled figures in the industry, if nothing else. They named "Macekre" for him... and he even won the dubious moniker of "The Antichrist of Anime".

Then what was news regarding Shadow Rising and the live action movie in the previous years? Those should have been formal announcements considering the reports made for them. Or not, after getting postponed and stuff. Although vague, it gave a hint that they and others might have been doing something. And didn't Shadow Rising have a projected release date the first time around or other times?

Well, yes... the announcements for Shadow Chronicles, Shadow Rising, and the live action movie were about as close to formal announcements as Harmony Gold usually gets with its Robotech projects: Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles was announced at AnimeExpo 2004, Robotech: Shadow Rising was announced at the 2007 New York Comic-Con, and the announcement that Shadow Rising was on hold because of the live action movie was made during their panel at AnimeExpo 2009. The obvious answer to the question of why their announcements don't get well publicized is that Robotech is still a virtual nonentity in the anime industry. It's such a small, forgotten title that most people haven't heard of it, and most of those that have don't care. The announcements are so vague because they announce them VERY early in production... that way they can milk the project for several years worth of minor news pieces and leaks to stir up hype about it and keep the fanbase from thinking they might be slipping into another release drought.

What makes this year's panel presentations different? If they weren't formal announcements for anything, why did they spend the time and effort to make an appearance back then and even now?

Because... as I've said... the goal isn't so much to announce that there's something on the way so much as it is to prove that they're actually doing something. One of the worst, if not the worst fear of any Robotech fan is the return of the decade long release drought in the 90's where bugger all was coming out except piss-weak comic books and novels. By trotting out these vague announcements, they can assure the loyal fans that they're still making progress... even if they're not. It's all about appearances.

[Legioss]

In the 90s there were videos, comics, novels, soundtracks, a rerelease of the toys, Robocon 10, active fansites and newsgroups, and there was almost Robotech 3000. Harmony Gold let their licenses do what they wanted and left Macross II and Plus alone. It was horrible! Good thing Robotech came back strong in the 00s. With Shadow Rising and the new whatever it is coming up AND the live action movie just right around the corner... WOW. It certainly is an exciting time for Robotech fans!

[Seto Kaiba]

In the 90s there were videos, comics, novels, soundtracks, a rerelease of the toys, Robocon 10, active fansites and newsgroups, and there was almost Robotech 3000. Harmony Gold let their licenses do what they wanted and left Macross II and Plus alone. It was horrible!

Granted, that's a reasonably brief context-free summary of where Robotech was in the 90's. You can't, however, assume that Robotech fans are going to look at that period and what it produced logically and impartially. In the eyes of the majority, the only part of Robotech that actually matters is the animated series. Putting aside all the myriad criticisms of the quality and content of the novelizations and comic books, what the fans wanted most of all back then is more or less the same thing they want today: a continuation of the Robotech animated series. It should come as no surprise then, that their preoccupation with the animated series would lead them to think of the new animation-less 90's as a release drought. It should go without saying that Harmony Gold's decision to axe literally everything created in that period because its licensees did whatever they wanted hasn't helped the way the fans see that period with the benefit of hindsight. Naturally, the devoted Robotech fans could care less that Harmony Gold let Macross II: Lovers Again and Macross Plus slip past... after all, they're not Robotech.

Just from my interactions with the old-timers and some of the more recent Robotech fans, I've gotten the distinct impression they see the 90's as a waste... where Harmony Gold wasn't doing anything, and the licensees were busy making Robotech titles that were nothing like "real Robotech" (meaning the animated series).

Of course, we would be predisposed to see that period as something good... a time when Harmony Gold wasn't pretending they had a goddamn clue, and before they started using questionable legal tactics to cockblock the legitimate importation of Macross goods.

Good thing Robotech came back strong in the 00s. With Shadow Rising and the new whatever it is coming up AND the live action movie just right around the corner... WOW. It certainly is an exciting time for Robotech fans!

Y'know... the "purist" Robotech fans who see the animation as the only part of Robotech worth paying attention to would probably take that statement in a wholly unironic sense and mean every word. For them, the 00's are giving them what they wanted... an animated direct continuation (however abortive) of the Robotech TV series, with the promise of more Robotech animation in the (vague) future and a possible live action movie. They ought to be over the moon about it all... and many of them are.

[Moly_Sigang]

I think HG likes to pretend that Robotech didn't have a 15+ year drought, so they would rather not talk about the 90's.

[Funkenstein]

I think HG likes to pretend that Robotech didn't have a 15+ year drought, so they would rather not talk about the 90's.

The 90's are going strong for HG, haven't you seen that great 90's OVA, Shadow Chronicles? The CG is even better than Van-pires!

[Keith]

The 90's are going strong for HG, haven't you seen that great 90's OVA, Shadow Chronicles? The CG is even better than Van-pires!

OMG, thank you, I totally forgot about Van-Pires, I totalliy need to post that in the TV show topic!!

[HappyPenguins]

The CG from syfy originals puts TSC to shame

[Seto Kaiba]

The 90's are going strong for HG, haven't you seen that great 90's OVA, Shadow Chronicles? The CG is even better than Van-pires!

Fantastic!

The CG from syfy originals puts TSC to shame

Eh, they're about on the same level in terms of the quality of the writing... it's just that the SyFy originals almost certainly have a far bigger budget per made-for-TV movie than Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles did.

[taksraven]

HG should redub The Asylums Titanic 2 and make it the Robotech LAM.

[Wanzerfan]

From what I hear, the folks over at GONZO must've been stoned on some high-quality Mexican Grass (hell, Maybe Tommy Chong's their supplier) when they made The Shadow Chronicles.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Wanzerfan