HG and Robotech Debates

[Seto Kaiba]

More likely, it was just a bad habbit of his to take credit for things he didn't make.

Decidedly so... and his unfortunate habit of claiming credit for the hard work of others and decisions he had nothing to do with got worse as time went on. Initially, he was at least mildly open about the fact that many of the creative decisions that made Robotech what it is were not really his ideas, and were forced on him by circumstance, contracts, and the network's executives. It wasn't until after Robotech: the Untold Story and Robotech II: the Sentinels fell apart on him that he started seriously trying to convince people that everything in Robotech was his doing and the end result of his grand artistic vision. He didn't even let the failure of Robotech 3000 and his subsequent replacement by our good pal Tommy Yune stop him, though he did change his tune slightly to claim that Macross's creators felt his version was far superior and had hastened to imitate it in subsequent Macross titles by de-emphasizing the importance of music and all that jazz. In the end, he had his pattern... everything that went right was his doing and the result of his genius, while everything that went wrong had failed due to forces beyond his control and/or whatever studio/sponsor they were partnered with at the time.

So why would there be interest in what the editor of a piece of work had to say about another person's work that he had exclusive access to? He's not an artist who drew anything that fascinated audiences all over the world, or the guy for created the story or concepts that made it into the show. I see a loose reinterpretation of other people's stuff, and yet he gets more credit than the people who did the real work.

Ordinarily, there wouldn't be... but if the editor kept most of the audience in the dark about the origins of the work he'd edited and released, he could claim to be its creator and get kudos for the work they thought he'd done, rather than his actual paltry contribution. He gets a lot of credit he doesn't deserve because he put twenty-odd years of work into lying about whose work it was, to the point where it seems that he succeeded in blurring the line between his contribution and that of the actual creators in the eyes of the gullible.

[Keith]

Ordinarily, there wouldn't be... but if the editor kept most of the audience in the dark about the origins of the work he'd edited and released, he could claim to be its creator and get kudos for the work they thought he'd done, rather than his actual paltry contribution. He gets a lot of credit he doesn't deserve because he put twenty-odd years of work into lying about whose work it was, to the point where it seems that he succeeded in blurring the line between his contribution and that of the actual creators in the eyes of the gullible.

The most ironic part, there has (minute for minute) been more "original" Robotech made without him, than with him.

[Seto Kaiba]

The most ironic part, there has (minute for minute) been more "original" Robotech made without him, than with him.

To be fair... nothing Tommy Yune has done with Robotech really qualifies as "original material" either. The only real difference between what Carl Macek did during his tenure as creative director and what Tommy Yune is doing in that position now is the show(s) they chose to rip off when working their respective Robotech sequels. Carl wanted to imitate Star Wars and Star Trek, while Tommy wants Robotech to imitate the rest of Macross and the new Battlestar Galactica. Passing over the laughably sucktastic failure that was Carl Macek's sole attempt to actually do something completely original, all Robotech's creative directors have ever tried to do is take existing characters, mecha, plot devices, and set pieces from the original shows and put them together in slightly different ways in the faint hope that it'll be mistaken for something new and different. Outside of Robotech 3000, the closest they've ever come to creating an original character has been their occasional practice of making shallow copies of existing characters and giving them new names and faces. Jack Baker was basically Rick Hunter in miniature (even lampshaded as such in Robotech II: the Sentinels), while Karen Penn was basically Lisa Hayes all over again. The same goes for the "original characters" created for Shadow Chronicles... Marcus Rush is a shallow clone of Scott Bernard, Maia Sterling is a shallow clone of Rook Bartley, and Alex whatshisface is basically Ben Dixon. Whenever they need to introduce a new character, they drag out a cookie cutter clone of one the fans already know.

The sad part is... this actually works pretty well for Harmony Gold. They can keep peddling stories that appeal to the nostalgia of their core demographic (30+ year old fans) while simultaneously minimizing the actual creative work that needs to go into producing new material. I guess it's a great racket if you can get in on it.

[Keith]

Well, by original I should have specified animation they churnd out themselves As opposed to literally lifting someone elses pre-produced work. But yeah, their characters are blatant rehashes. Although to befare, they gave Data tits, that's different right?

[Wanzerfan]

To be fair... nothing Tommy Yune has done with Robotech really qualifies as "original material" either. The only real difference between what Carl Macek did during his tenure as creative director and what Tommy Yune is doing in that position now is the show(s) they chose to rip off when working their respective Robotech sequels. Carl wanted to imitate Star Wars and Star Trek, while Tommy wants Robotech to imitate the rest of Macross and the new Battlestar Galactica. Passing over the laughably sucktastic failure that was Carl Macek's sole attempt to actually do something completely original, all Robotech's creative directors have ever tried to do is take existing characters, mecha, plot devices, and set pieces from the original shows and put them together in slightly different ways in the faint hope that it'll be mistaken for something new and different. Outside of Robotech 3000, the closest they've ever come to creating an original character has been their occasional practice of making shallow copies of existing characters and giving them new names and faces. Jack Baker was basically Rick Hunter in miniature (even lampshaded as such in Robotech II: the Sentinels), while Karen Penn was basically Lisa Hayes all over again. The same goes for the "original characters" created for Shadow Chronicles... Marcus Rush is a shallow clone of Scott Bernard, Maia Sterling is a shallow clone of Rook Bartley, and Alex whatshisface is basically Ben Dixon. Whenever they need to introduce a new character, they drag out a cookie cutter clone of one the fans already know.

The sad part is... this actually works pretty well for Harmony Gold. They can keep peddling stories that appeal to the nostalgia of their core demographic (30+ year old fans) while simultaneously minimizing the actual creative work that needs to go into producing new material. I guess it's a great racket if you can get in on it.

I think I smell a R.I.C.O. lawsuit coming

[Freiflug88]

It wasn't until after Robotech: the Untold Story and Robotech II: the Sentinels fell apart on him that he started seriously trying to convince people that everything in Robotech was his doing and the end result of his grand artistic vision.

When and where did Carl himself ever say anything to even suggest that everything in Robotech was his doing and the end result of his grand artistic vision? The most outrageous claim I have ever heard straight from Carl Macek's mouth is that Robotech Sentinels would have revolutionized how all Americans viewed animation had his vision for the show been fulfilled, in his Space Station Libtery Podcast interview.

Jack Baker was basically Rick Hunter in miniature (even lampshaded as such in Robotech II: the Sentinels), while Karen Penn was basically Lisa Hayes all over again.

Visually though Jack Baker and Karen Penn are actually rehashes of Shogo and Yui of Megazone 23 Part 1. Carl's orginal plan was to have them as "Mark" and "Becky" from Robotech: The Untold Story. Add to the list of the thousand and one things that were ruined when he was denied the use of SDF Macross footage for the film.

Maia Sterling is a shallow clone of Rook Bartley.

Not to mention that her character is based on just a mere figment of Jeanne/Dana's imagination from a hallucination.

[Seto Kaiba]

I think I smell a R.I.C.O. lawsuit coming

If only... if only...

When and where did Carl himself ever say anything to even suggest that everything in Robotech was his doing and the end result of his grand artistic vision? The most outrageous claim I have ever heard straight from Carl Macek's mouth is that Robotech Sentinels would have revolutionized how all Americans viewed animation had his vision for the show been fulfilled, in his Space Station Libtery Podcast interview.

In the past he's taken credit for a lot of the decisions that occurred way over his head... I'll dig out a few after I've finished de-virusing my brother's laptop. Been at it for six hours already and there's no end in sight.

Admittedly, that's not the most outrageous or outlandish claim I've ever heard Macek make... that Robotech II would've revolutionized how Americans view animation. The worst that I've heard from him is that the original creators of the Macross TV series thought his version was far superior to their own and had hastened to copy what he'd done with Robotech by de-emphasizing the power of music/song in their own sequels... y'know, just some little shows like Macross 7.

The man talked out of his ass so frequently its a wonder his whole digestive tract didn't pull a 180...

Visually though Jack Baker and Karen Penn are actually rehashes of Shogo and Yui of Megazone 23 Part 1. Carl's orginal plan was to have them as "Mark" and "Becky" from Robotech: The Untold Story. Add to the list of the thousand and one things that were ruined when he was denied the use of SDF Macross footage for the film.

Nah, Jack and Karen had pretty much the same arc of character development that Rick and Lisa did back in the Macross Saga, which was what was lampshaded by Max in the first few issues of the comics and in the failed pilot/"movie". Admittedly, you've got a point about the failed tie-in to Robotech: the Untold Story. Wasn't there also supposed to be one with regard to the character who eventually became T.R. Edwards? (Orig. B.D. Andrews)

Not to mention that her character is based on just a mere figment of Jeanne/Dana's imagination from a hallucination.

Actually, I think they've shot that one down explicitly... Aurora Sterling never existed, Maia isn't meant to be her replacement. One would assume that if she WAS meant to be the girl in Dana's hallucination, she'd have bright blue hair like the novels character Aurora did instead of purple. She doesn't exactly fill the same niche Aurora did either.

[Jasonc]

Actually, I think they've shot that one down explicitly... Aurora Sterling never existed, Maia isn't meant to be her replacement. One would assume that if she WAS meant to be the girl in Dana's hallucination, she'd have bright blue hair like the novels character Aurora did instead of purple. She doesn't exactly fill the same niche Aurora did either.

Originally, it was supposed to be Aurora, but Tommy liked the name Maia so much, that he got rid of the Aurora character. As for hair color, I don't think we can necessarily go by that. Afterall, Dana's hair wasn't blonde in Macross Saga. In anycase, it's one of those things that isn't even really important, just a minor lame idea in a much bigger pool of said lame.

[Keith]

Actually, I think they've shot that one down explicitly... Aurora Sterling never existed, Maia isn't meant to be her replacement. One would assume that if she WAS meant to be the girl in Dana's hallucination, she'd have bright blue hair like the novels character Aurora did instead of purple. She doesn't exactly fill the same niche Aurora did either.

To be fair, if you got by "The Shadow Chronicles," then apparently "scott & ariel" were the only characters through out the whole "new generation."

[Seto Kaiba]

Originally, it was supposed to be Aurora, but Tommy liked the name Maia so much, that he got rid of the Aurora character.

Eh... either way, I think anything that severs ties with all the pants-on-head retarded stuff in the Robotech novels can be called a step in the right direction. Sure, Maia Sterling was nothing more than an unnecessarily curvaceous cardboard cutout love interest for Marcus (who some accuse of being an author self-insertion fantasy persona for Tommy), but at least she wasn't jabbering on about the shapings of protoculture. Trying to develop an important character out something from Dana's acid trip "protoculture-induced hallucination" was always a stupid idea.

As for hair color, I don't think we can necessarily go by that. Afterall, Dana's hair wasn't blonde in Macross Saga. In anycase, it's one of those things that isn't even really important, just a minor lame idea in a much bigger pool of said lame.

But she WAS blonde in Robotech II: the Sentinels... which is what this turd is drawing on anyway. There wasn't anything they could do about the change in hair color between their adaptations of Macross and Southern Cross, but once they were animating their own trash they could aim for a little consistency. There shouldn't have been anything hindering them from creating a character who vaguely resembled Dana's delusion the same way they created that thing that looked vaguely like Louis Ducasse.

[taksraven]

Well, by original I should have specified animation they churnd out themselves As opposed to literally lifting someone elses pre-produced work. But yeah, their characters are blatant rehashes. Although to befare, they gave Data tits, that's different right?

They give everything tits. They would give protoculture tits if they could...... :D

[Seto Kaiba]

They give everything tits. They would give protoculture tits if they could...... :D

Y'know... seeing as the Macross Saga establishes that one of protoculture's many uses is in computer circuitry, it wouldn't be a stretch to say such has already come to pass in the form of racktastic android girl Janice Em.

[Freiflug88]

y'know, just some little shows like Macross 7.

Their could be some truth to M7 being inspired by Carl's ideas though... I mean a lot of fans forget that a decade before Basera ever jammed on his guitar in M7, Mark was pwning enemy mecha with sounds louder then a missile

Wasn't there also supposed to be one with regard to the character who eventually became T.R. Edwards? (Orig. B.D. Andrews)

Indeed there was:

In order to pave the way for his role as a key antagonist in The Sentinels' date=' Edwards was first intended to feature in 1986's Robotech: The Movie; as this movie was an English dub of the direct-to-video Japanese feature, Megazone 23, Edwards was to be the English-langauge version of that movie's antagonist, simply named "B.D.". Consequently, his name was originally to be B.D. Edwards, and his Sentinels character design was created based on the appearance of "B.D." in the Megazone 23/Robotech: The Movie animation.

The design of Megazone 23′s B.D. (top) was modified to create T.R. Edwards in Robotech: The Graphic Novel (bottom).

Per Macek's original vision, the movie would have taken place during the early stages of the Macross portion of the Robotech storyline, in the early 2010s, but when the story was heavily revised for the final cut of the film, this timeframe was advanced to the year 2027—a point in time when Edwards would not have been able to feature in the story. Consequently, the plan to make B.D. and Edwards the same character was discarded, and the villain of the movie was redubbed "B.D. Andrews". While he retained his basic visual similarity to B.D., Edwards's character designed was modified to have blond hair and a slightly more gaunt face, while he gained the new initials "T.R." (though years later, even Macek's own notes, as published in Robotech Art 3: The Sentinels, continued to refer to Edwards as "B.D.").[1]

Only thing missing from the article is that his hideous faceplate was added to cover the injuries he suffered in his intended finale in Robotech: The Untold Story when his mecha went BOMBA!

Actually, I think they've shot that one down explicitly... Aurora Sterling never existed, Maia isn't meant to be her replacement. One would assume that if she WAS meant to be the girl in Dana's hallucination, she'd have bright blue hair like the novels character Aurora did instead of purple. She doesn't exactly fill the same niche Aurora did either.

I got the feeling that Maia is THE girl in Dana's hallucination, but just as Jasonc suggests it was Tommy Yune taking creative liberties. For one in the Robotech series the girl just says "I am your sister Dana, the other daughter of Max and Miria" with no mention of a name. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCJXo-ChQsU#t=12m00s

It was only the Jack McKinney novel, which is non-cannon anyway, that came up with the name Aura in the first place. So its fair enough that Yune gave her whatever name he wanted.

As for the hair color choice of purple over blue:

1. A Kuze clone in RTSC just wouldn't be complete without a purple haired Motoko Kusanagi look-like as well.

2. "Emotionless Rei Ayanmai blue" does not match her personality.

3. Maia is Robotech's equivalent of the the purple haired "La Blue Girl" and was tentacled raped by Basera's space whales (which were apparently an original of idea of Carl)

Edited August 10, 2010 by Freiflug88

[Seto Kaiba]

[...]

'kay... this post horrified me on more levels than I can readily list. All I can say is that it's unfortunate that Carl never got the chance to see his vision for Robotech II: the Sentinels and Robotech: the Untold Story all the way through. If the completed Sentinels went over as well as Untold Story supposedly did with its test audience in Houston, Robotech probably wouldn't have been around to be an embuggerance to Macross licensing outside Japan in the early 00's.

Huh... I wonder if the Robotech fanbase will ever notice how schizophrenic their attitude towards Carl Macek and his work is? If you ask them about his work on the Robotech TV series, they laud him as a visionary and heap all kinds of undeserved accolades on his head. But if you try to talk about his various attempts to expand the story of Robotech, then they usually respond with something to the effect of "it's a horrid turd and we usually pretend it never happened". If the man's the beloved creative director that so many of the "old guard" consider superior to Tommy in every way, why the hell do they hate every attempt the man made to do something even remotely original? Hell, there's a topic for someone's graduate thesis in abnormal psychology right there...

I got the feeling that Maia is THE girl in Dana's hallucination, but just as Jasonc suggests it was Tommy Yune taking creative liberties. For one in the Robotech series the girl just says "I am your sister Dana, the other daughter of Max and Miria" with no mention of a name. http://www.youtube.c...-ChQsU#t=12m00s

Eh... the novels are still reasonably well remembered, despite being richly despised... and they went out of their way to make damn sure to that it was clear she WASN'T Aurora or a replacement for same.

1. A Kuze clone in RTSC just wouldn't be complete without a purple haired Motoko Kusanagi look-like as well.

2. "Emotionless Rei Ayanmai blue" does not match her personality.

3. Maia is Robotech's equivalent of the the purple haired "La Blue Girl" and was tentacled raped by Basera's space whales (which were apparently an original of idea of Carl)

Okayyyyyyyy... that's just a wee bit disturbing to think about.

[HappyPenguins]

'kay... this post horrified me on more levels than I can readily list. All I can say is that it's unfortunate that Carl never got the chance to see his vision for Robotech II: the Sentinels and Robotech: the Untold Story all the way through. If the completed Sentinels went over as well as Untold Story supposedly did with its test audience in Houston, Robotech probably wouldn't have been around to be an embuggerance to Macross licensing outside Japan in the early 00's.

Huh... I wonder if the Robotech fanbase will ever notice how schizophrenic their attitude towards Carl Macek and his work is? If you ask them about his work on the Robotech TV series, they laud him as a visionary and heap all kinds of undeserved accolades on his head. But if you try to talk about his various attempts to expand the story of Robotech, then they usually respond with something to the effect of "it's a horrid turd and we usually pretend it never happened". If the man's the beloved creative director that so many of the "old guard" consider superior to Tommy in every way, why the hell do they hate every attempt the man made to do something even remotely original? Hell, there's a topic for someone's graduate thesis in abnormal psychology right there...

I don't hate the sentinels, but I agree it wasn't the greatest, but neither was the TV series. I love RT for what it is, cheesy generic scifi. Carl wasn't a creative genius or anything but he could tell a better story than Tommy ever could. However that is just my personal opinion on the matter.

[jenius]

I think it's easy to say "all of Robotech fandom hates The Sentinels" now because it's a 22 year old abortion. Had it come out in 1988 things would have been different. Back then all the things we rip on in the Sentinels from the Care-Bearans to the Amazonian She-Rahs (sp?) and all that other crap was en vogue. I still love the scene where the Regent 'rewards' the Tirolians for their honesty.

[terry the lone wolf]

I think it's easy to say "all of Robotech fandom hates The Sentinels" now because it's a 22 year old abortion. Had it come out in 1988 things would have been different. Back then all the things we rip on in the Sentinels from the Care-Bearans to the Amazonian She-Rahs (sp?) and all that other crap was en vogue. I still love the scene where the Regent 'rewards' the Tirolians for their honesty.

Y'know I forgot how violent Sentinels was. Women, children, & even old people all bought the farm. That would've been great for afternoon children's programming. And you thought a lot of people complained about a cross dressing rebel fighter who liked to sing.

[BeyondTheGrave]

As for the hair color choice of purple over blue:

1. A Kuze clone in RTSC just wouldn't be complete without a purple haired Motoko Kusanagi look-like as well.

2. "Emotionless Rei Ayanmai blue" does not match her personality.

3. Maia is Robotech's equivalent of the the purple haired "La Blue Girl" and was tentacled raped by Basera's space whales (which were apparently an original of idea of Carl)

OMG it's the synopsis for the RTLAM.

Okayyyyyyyy... that's just a wee bit disturbing to think about.

And yet it would make millions.... of Turkish Lira.

Edited August 12, 2010 by BeyondTheGrave

[Seto Kaiba]

I don't hate the sentinels, but I agree it wasn't the greatest, but neither was the TV series. I love RT for what it is, cheesy generic scifi. Carl wasn't a creative genius or anything but he could tell a better story than Tommy ever could. However that is just my personal opinion on the matter.

Well, yeah... but let's remember that both you and the regulars on your site are highly atypical for Robotech fans. After all, not only do you all tend to take a rather dim view of the direction Tommy Yune is steering Robotech in, your assessment of the franchise as a whole tends to be considerably more realistic than that of the average Robotech fan. Hell, that you don't go berserk when someone criticizes Robotech and that you can come here and have a discussion of the franchise's merits and shortcomings is enough to mark you out as exceptional among what remains of the Robotech fandom.

I think it's easy to say "all of Robotech fandom hates The Sentinels" now because it's a 22 year old abortion. Had it come out in 1988 things would have been different. Back then all the things we rip on in the Sentinels from the Care-Bearans to the Amazonian She-Rahs (sp?) and all that other crap was en vogue. I still love the scene where the Regent 'rewards' the Tirolians for their honesty.

Just given what I've found from that period and the years shortly thereafter, it looks to me like many Robotech fans weren't that fond of the whole Robotech II: the Sentinels concept even back in the late 80's and early 90's. I would guess that a good part of the reason Jason and John Waltrip's Robotech II: the Sentinels comic books lasted as long as they did wasn't because fans were crazy about the story, but rather because they were the only comic series that even pretended to have a direct relation to the goings-on in the animated Robotech universe. True, with hindsight opinions of it tend to be even less salutary, given the massive camp factor attached to most of the contents. Now that Tommy's basically disowned the produced Robotech II: the Sentinels from the continuity (but not necessarily the events they depict), I don't think opinions of the series will ever improve.

Y'know I forgot how violent Sentinels was. Women, children, & even old people all bought the farm. That would've been great for afternoon children's programming. And you thought a lot of people complained about a cross dressing rebel fighter who liked to sing.

Not so much in the animation they actually produced for Robotech II: the Sentinels... a lot of the stuff in the comics was drawn from the old Robotech II novelizations, though hopefully not the scaling problems with regard to the Invid Regent and all...

[taksraven]

I think it's easy to say "all of Robotech fandom hates The Sentinels" now because it's a 22 year old abortion. Had it come out in 1988 things would have been different. Back then all the things we rip on in the Sentinels from the Care-Bearans to the Amazonian She-Rahs (sp?) and all that other crap was en vogue. I still love the scene where the Regent 'rewards' the Tirolians for their honesty.

HANG ON. What is a Care-Bearan???

Taksraven

[Seto Kaiba]

HANG ON. What is a Care-Bearan???

You... if your avatar is anything to go by.

[Einherjar]

In order to pave the way for his role as a key antagonist in The Sentinels, Edwards was first intended to feature in 1986's Robotech: The Movie; as this movie was an English dub of the direct-to-video Japanese feature, Megazone 23, Edwards was to be the English-langauge version of that movie's antagonist, simply named "B.D.". Consequently, his name was originally to be B.D. Edwards, and his Sentinels character design was created based on the appearance of "B.D." in the Megazone 23/Robotech: The Movie animation.

The design of Megazone 23′s B.D. (top) was modified to create T.R. Edwards in Robotech: The Graphic Novel (bottom).

If it wasn't for this explanation, I would have confused the picture of Edward as Roy Focker, or an evil clone of him by design.

[BeyondTheGrave]

If it wasn't for this explanation, I would have confused the picture of Edward as Roy Focker, or an evil clone of him by design.

Evil clone would have been original though.

[Zor Primus]

I find it funny how people can still defend HG...for Macross' 25th anniversary we were blessed with Macross Frontier, for Robotech's 25th we got....*crickets* yeah...

The best thing that can happen to the RT franchise is for it to be sold to WB or anyone else with the capacity to at least do something or just put it out of it's misery. Let it die and leave the fans just content with the childhood memories of the show. Be thankful that at least for me it opened up a wide world of anime, and be done with it.

In regards to the Sentinels, I was a fan of the pilot and enjoyed throughly the McKinney books with the exception of the Star Children in the End of the Circle. The quality of the animation was nowhere near as good as say, Ep 27 which imo is the best drawn in the entire series. The worse being Ep 25, what the frell happened there?

Sentinels in theory would have worked and liked by most RT if it had stuck to most of what McKinney wrote. That arguement is almost as heavy as Macross vs RT; the Mckinniest's vs Purists that is. But this isn't their forum to debate.

[Seto Kaiba]

If it wasn't for this explanation, I would have confused the picture of Edward as Roy Focker, or an evil clone of him by design.

Of course... which is why Tommy Yune, in his infinite benevolence, decided to make T.R. Edwards look exactly like Guile from Street Fighter... so you'd be able to tell him apart from Roy. Either that or he's just another lazy thief in charge of a project with the word "Robotech" in the title.

I find it funny how people can still defend HG...for Macross' 25th anniversary we were blessed with Macross Frontier, for Robotech's 25th we got....*crickets* yeah...

Oh yes, you do occasionally hear attempts to defend Harmony Gold despite their serial ineptitude and complete inability to continue the Robotech series... but considering the usual level of intelligence they exhibit, it might be pushing it a bit to call them "people". Trying to make them see sense is like trying to hold a conversation with a Big Mouth Billy Bass... you won't accomplish anything, and you'll be subjected to the same handful of tired lines until you're ready to scream.

The best thing that can happen to the RT franchise is for it to be sold to WB or anyone else with the capacity to at least do something or just put it out of it's misery. Let it die and leave the fans just content with the childhood memories of the show. Be thankful that at least for me it opened up a wide world of anime, and be done with it.

Unfortunately, it looks like the gleefully incompetent staff at Harmony Gold intend to hang onto Robotech until it either stops turning a profit altogether and they have no choice but to broom it (rather a tall order, considering how cheap their work usually is), or until it becomes popular (fat chance) and someone with more money than brains makes a big enough offer. Until one of those things comes to pass, the former being unlikely in the near future and the latter possibly requiring direct divine intervention, Harmony Gold will no doubt continue to squat on Robotech and the licenses that shat it into being like a large, mentally-handicapped frog for the foreseeable future.

Sentinels in theory would have worked and liked by most RT if it had stuck to most of what McKinney wrote.

McKinney came AFTER Sentinels failed... and considering the low regard the majority of remaining Robotech fans have for the novelizations, I doubt it would've gone over well... but that's mercifully neither here nor there, as you said.

[Boxer]

Harmony Gold will no doubt continue to squat on Robotech and the licenses that shat it into being like a large, mentally-handicapped frog for the foreseeable future.

Not sure if I should ask this here or in the newbie Macross thread, but would this be the reason why Macross F came up with the 'New UN Spacy' and a new logo? Is Kawamori trying to distance himself from SDF:M so that Macross can stand apart from Robotech?

[RDClip]

Not sure if I should ask this here or in the newbie Macross thread, but would this be the reason why Macross F came up with the 'New UN Spacy' and a new logo? Is Kawamori trying to distance himself from SDF:M so that Macross can stand apart from Robotech?

I doubt Kawamori cares about HG, RT, or anything in America when it comes to Macross. Like I've said before, Macross does just fine even though they are confined to only Japan. Anime still makes more money in Japan than in the rest of the world.

[Seto Kaiba]

Not sure if I should ask this here or in the newbie Macross thread, but would this be the reason why Macross F came up with the 'New UN Spacy' and a new logo? Is Kawamori trying to distance himself from SDF:M so that Macross can stand apart from Robotech?

Almost certainly not... for the reasons RDClip stated, and also because Robotech is a literal nonentity in Japan, thanks to the way the licensing contracts that permit its existence are drawn up. The business with having an all-new logo for the New U.N. Spacy was, in all likelihood, just Kawamori underlining the changes/evolution of Macross's setting that he elaborated on in his Otona Anime #9 interview... the change in the government and presumably also the reorganization of the military following the events depicted in Macross VF-X2. They have basically zero need to distance themselves from the original U.N. Spacy logo, since the copyright dispute court rulings did affirm that Big West/Studio Nue is copyright owner on that design.

[azrael]

...

...

If anything, Macross Zero would refute such a notion that it was due Robotech.

[Jasonc]

In regards to the Sentinels, I was a fan of the pilot and enjoyed throughly the McKinney books with the exception of the Star Children in the End of the Circle. The quality of the animation was nowhere near as good as say, Ep 27 which imo is the best drawn in the entire series. The worse being Ep 25, what the frell happened there?

For SDF Macross, there were 3 studios working on the episodes. One of them I think was called Anime Friend, 2nd I don't know, and the 3rd was BW/SN. Anime friend did the horrid ones, and you can tell the difference between episodes. I do know the best ones were done by BW/SN, and kicked @$$. In either case, Macross had an awesome storyline, and even with poor animation sometimes, still made the entire series as awesome as it is.

[taksraven]

For SDF Macross, there were 3 studios working on the episodes. One of them I think was called Anime Friend, 2nd I don't know, and the 3rd was BW/SN. Anime friend did the horrid ones, and you can tell the difference between episodes. I do know the best ones were done by BW/SN, and kicked @$$. In either case, Macross had an awesome storyline, and even with poor animation sometimes, still made the entire series as awesome as it is.

I thought that the problem was that Anime Fiend (see what I did there) outsourced the work to another studio and the animation came back looking really crap.

Its a pity too, since that is one of the weakest aspects of Macross.

Taksraven

[anime52k8]

I thought that the problem was that Anime Fiend (see what I did there) outsourced the work to another studio and the animation came back looking really crap.

Its a pity too, since that is one of the weakest aspects of Macross.

Taksraven

I think You're referring to Star Pro.

[taksraven]

I think You're referring to Star Pro.

YES, thats the one....

[hulagu]

Almost certainly not... for the reasons RDClip stated, and also because Robotech is a literal nonentity in Japan, thanks to the way the licensing contracts that permit its existence are drawn up. The business with having an all-new logo for the New U.N. Spacy was, in all likelihood, just Kawamori underlining the changes/evolution of Macross's setting that he elaborated on in his Otona Anime #9 interview... the change in the government and presumably also the reorganization of the military following the events depicted in Macross VF-X2. They have basically zero need to distance themselves from the original U.N. Spacy logo, since the copyright dispute court rulings did affirm that Big West/Studio Nue is copyright owner on that design.

Didn't the UN Spacy kite show up in the historical Legend of Zero episode anyway?

[Keith]

If anything, Macross Zero would refute such a notion that it was due Robotech.

As well as the Zero movie they made in Frontier, which still used the original logo.