HG and Robotech Debates

[Mark Warlock]

Yeah, you and me both. My only real beef with Robotech is that in 25 years the people who "created" it never really managed to do anything original with it, and just keep milking the same three TV shows for a quick buck instead, which is really more a beef with Harmony Gold than it is with Robotech itself.

Lots of folks in mecha circles object to Harmony Gold, even the ones who aren't Macross fans, because they act like apefaces. There are very few folks in the Macross fandom who genuinely object to Robotech itself, though it might not be their cup of tea.

So, we just need to trick them into looking up when it's raining, right?

I appreciate your candid replies Seto and I do hope that my replies aren't taken out of context by anyone or that anything is added that is not intended. But I must ask.. If what you said above is true.. and as you stated "There are very few folks in the Macross Fandom who genuinely object to Robotech itself”... Then Why is it I see so many direct attacks on Robotech that do not relate to HG? I mean personally I don't feel you have to be a fan of HG to be a fan of Robotech. Ulitmately I am a Robotech fan above all else and I've said that at Rt.com as well.

I wish there were more fans that could separate what HG does behind the scenes and Robotech the Series because they are two different things. Robotech shouldn't take the hit for what HG does.

Now as far as Macross vs. Robotech is concerned. I tend to separate the two shows... to me they are in no way related when I look at them separately. Do they have similarities... well sure.. but then again there are simiarities in many shows out there. I'm a fan of both and as such I make my own judgements on what I get out of either series. Like you said there are Macross fans that feel Robotech is just not their cup of Tea... and I respect that. I just find it hard to respect the ones (on both sides) that feel they have to bash the shows themselves for whatever petty reason.

M.W.

[VF5SS]

How can you separate the shows when they use the same footage and have 95% the same story?

Is that 5% that makes it different really that important?

Have you watch the shows in their original format? Once you do, you'll see how pointless the Robotech story is.

[azrael]

Yeah, you and me both. My only real beef with Robotech is that in 25 years the people who "created" it never really managed to do anything original with it, and just keep milking the same three TV shows for a quick buck instead, which is really more a beef with Harmony Gold than it is with Robotech itself.

Considering that they're gonna re-re-release some Macross Saga-thingy for Christmas, they're obviously gonna milk it until the bone marrow is dry. Is it so hard to just reboot the franchise instead of waiting for WB to do something? Just come out with a cartoon that starts everything from scratch. That's the trend of the day, rebooting franchises. Redo the entire series from scratch and, putting it in today's lingo, make it something that today's audience can relate to. Or is that too hard?

Lots of folks in mecha circles object to Harmony Gold, even the ones who aren't Macross fans, because they act like apefaces. There are very few folks in the Macross fandom who genuinely object to Robotech itself, though it might not be their cup of tea.

Don't get the Mechwarrior-folks started, 'kay?

[Funkenstein]

Considering that they're gonna re-re-release some Macross Saga-thingy for Christmas, they're obviously gonna milk it until the bone marrow is dry. Is it so hard to just reboot the franchise instead of waiting for WB to do something? Just come out with a cartoon that starts everything from scratch. That's the trend of the day, rebooting franchises. Redo the entire series from scratch and, putting it in today's lingo, make it something that today's audience can relate to. Or is that too hard?

Don't get the Mechwarrior-folks started, 'kay?

Especially if you call them Mechwarrior folks when its Battletech nuts.

[Mark Warlock]

How can you separate the shows when they use the same footage and have 95% the same story?

Is that 5% that makes it different really that important?

Have you watch the shows in their original format? Once you do, you'll see how pointless the Robotech story is.

How can I? Well for me its pretty easy. When I go to my dvd shelf and I pull a Robotech DVD set.. I'm watching Robotech... and I don't think of Macross for one second. Now when I got and pull the Macross set... I'm watching Macross... and again... I don't think of Robotech at all. For me.. Regardless of how much or how little the precentage if difference between the show is.. the bottom line is they are different shows, and I can enjoy them both.

And I have watched Macross in its original format... I have the DVD set... but for me it doesn't change how I view Robotech.

Simply because you view Robotech as pointless... doesn't make it so... that is simply your personal opinion and personal opinions are not facts. To others there may be plenty of relevance with the show.

Again, I'm not here to start an argument over which show is pointless or better. I am here to get honest factual answers to why Macross fans and Robotech fans shouldn't be able to get along. There is no reason why fans on both sides shouldn’t be able to get along or talk civil without attacking mental capacity for liking one show over the other. There is no reason why each Robotech and Macross discussion has to turn into an argument over “well it started because these people said this or that.” Just let it go. Neither side is right or wrong. Neither side is better or worse.

WE are all fans of the base footage with regard to the original 36 episodes… We are all fans of the base storyline. That’s our foundation.. whether you are a Robotech fan or Macross Fan.

There has to be more fans out there that are just tired of it all. Fans willing to step up and say they too want an end to all this pointless bickering.

I sincerely hope that soon… we’ll all be able to put those differences aside..

You know I was at MechaCon this past weekend… and while I was there I met Robotech Fans, Macross Fans, Akira fans, and fans of so many other things… and never once was there an argument or attack on any series… We were all just fans… and it was great being there with all those fans.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Mark Warlock

[Funkenstein]

I dont see how you can like one more than the other though. The story's are the same (Within the Macross storyline at least). What quality makes you favorable towards Robotech that isn't available in Macross?

[Gubaba]

I appreciate your candid replies Seto and I do hope that my replies aren't taken out of context by anyone or that anything is added that is not intended. But I must ask.. If what you said above is true.. and as you stated "There are very few folks in the Macross Fandom who genuinely object to Robotech itself”... Then Why is it I see so many direct attacks on Robotech that do not relate to HG? I mean personally I don't feel you have to be a fan of HG to be a fan of Robotech. Ulitmately I am a Robotech fan above all else and I've said that at Rt.com as well.

I wish there were more fans that could separate what HG does behind the scenes and Robotech the Series because they are two different things. Robotech shouldn't take the hit for what HG does.

Okay...as a Macross fan who often heaps scorn on Robotech, let me explain myself a bit (and it obviously goes without saying that I can speak only for myself here; just as obviously, this is merely my opinion: I am not presenting it as fact, nor should it be taken as such).

Yes, I dislike HG's practices and attitudes. Yes, I dislike what some of the fans say and do. Unlike a lot of others here, though, I also dislike Robotech as a series.

As an adaptation of Macross, I have to admit that the Robotech Macross Saga is pretty good, overall. I don't like that they turned Minmay into a talentless annoyance, I don't like the extra (and superfluous) dialogue and narration, and I don't like a few other things that I'd have to watch the show again to remember, but they did a pretty good job of adapting the show and keeping it relatively close to the original. The casting was pretty good, too.

Once the Macross Saga is over, though, the Masters Saga is a mess...I thought it seemed slapped together and kind of incoherent when I first saw it (at age 11 or so), and I'm sure it would seem slapped together to me now. The attempts to try to develop a backstory seem forced to me, and the backstory itself isn't terribly interesting. It doesn't help that the original show has a lot of problems as well.

And that's also what kills New Generation for me. Generally dispensing with the slipshod backstory stuff, it essentially tells an entirely new story, but again, Mospeada is...not a terrible show, but not a great one, either. The mecha is good, the characters are interesting, but the story itself is too episodic and formulaic. And the forced cliffhanger of "OH NO!! WHERE'S ADMIRAL HUNTER!?!" totally didn't work for me (probably because, by that time in the original broadcast, I knew it was three separate shows).

After they let the cat out of the bag that Robotech was a cobbled-together amalgam of stuff in Robotech Art 1, my hope was that they'd stop trying to pretend that Robotech was one unified fictional universe, but the comics and novels made it worse, but trying to tie everything together more closely. For purely personal reasons (i.e. none of my grade school friends BELIEVED me when I told them it was three separate shows), that pissed me off, and I still can't shake the feeling that people trying to rationalize, say, the mecha development history of Robotech, or trying to figure out where the SDF-2 is, are simply being odd and contrary.

But that's me; once I discovered (about halfway into the Masters Saga, I believe) that the shows were originally unconnected, my willing suspension of disbelief vanished. To me, there IS no "Robotech story" distinct from the originals. There are the original shows, and there's this weird show that tries (unsuccessfully, in my opinion) to cram them together.

And yes, I understand that that's what Macek was ordered to do to get the show on the air, I understand Robotech's place in the history of anime in America, but that doesn't mean that the show is worth discussing seriously now. That said, I enjoy some of the attempts to do so, even if, from my perspective, they're more or less misguided.

Fair enough?

[Mark Warlock]

I dont see how you can like one more than the other though. The story's are the same (Within the Macross storyline at least). What quality makes you favorable towards Robotech that isn't available in Macross?

Well it's a personal preference. And personal preferences really aren't something that can be argued. I like what I like... And for me Robotech isn't just the Macross Saga, but the entire series... even if I don't enjoy the Masters saga as much as the other two... Again.. it's just my preference as Macross is yours.

Okay...as a Macross fan who often heaps scorn on Robotech, let me explain myself a bit (and it obviously goes without saying that I can speak only for myself here; just as obviously, this is merely my opinion: I am not presenting it as fact, nor should it be taken as such).

Yes, I dislike HG's practices and attitudes. Yes, I dislike what some of the fans say and do. Unlike a lot of others here, though, I also dislike Robotech as a series.

As an adaptation of Macross, I have to admit that the Robotech Macross Saga is pretty good, overall. I don't like that they turned Minmay into a talentless annoyance, I don't like the extra (and superfluous) dialogue and narration, and I don't like a few other things that I'd have to watch the show again to remember, but they did a pretty good job of adapting the show and keeping it relatively close to the original. The casting was pretty good, too.

Once the Macross Saga is over, though, the Masters Saga is a mess...I thought it seemed slapped together and kind of incoherent when I first saw it (at age 11 or so), and I'm sure it would seem slapped together to me now. The attempts to try to develop a backstory seem forced to me, and the backstory itself isn't terribly interesting. It doesn't help that the original show has a lot of problems as well.

And that's also what kills New Generation for me. Generally dispensing with the slipshod backstory stuff, it essentially tells an entirely new story, but again, Mospeada is...not a terrible show, but not a great one, either. The mecha is good, the characters are interesting, but the story itself is too episodic and formulaic. And the forced cliffhanger of "OH NO!! WHERE'S ADMIRAL HUNTER!?!" totally didn't work for me (probably because, by that time in the original broadcast, I knew it was three separate shows).

After they let the cat out of the bag that Robotech was a cobbled-together amalgam of stuff in Robotech Art 1, my hope was that they'd stop trying to pretend that Robotech was one unified fictional universe, but the comics and novels made it worse, but trying to tie everything together more closely. For purely personal reasons (i.e. none of my grade school friends BELIEVED me when I told them it was three separate shows), that pissed me off, and I still can't shake the feeling that people trying to rationalize, say, the mecha development history of Robotech, or trying to figure out where the SDF-2 is, are simply being odd and contrary.

But that's me; once I discovered (about halfway into the Masters Saga, I believe) that the shows were originally unconnected, my willing suspension of disbelief vanished. To me, there IS no "Robotech story" distinct from the originals. There are the original shows, and there's this weird show that tries (unsuccessfully, in my opinion) to cram them together.

And yes, I understand that that's what Macek was ordered to do to get the show on the air, I understand Robotech's place in the history of anime in America, but that doesn't mean that the show is worth discussing seriously now. That said, I enjoy some of the attempts to do so, even if, from my perspective, they're more or less misguided.

Fair enough?

GUBABA

I respect that.. You gave your reasons and what you liked and didn't like without spouting hate for someone else who enjoyed what you didn't necessarily like. You didn't berate me for bein a fan on Robotech, you didn't berate others who do either. You even said, as you've said else where, that there were aspects of Robotech that you liked... and it shouldn't be considered by anyone else to be a bad thing that you do.

So there is clearly ground for fans of both shows to get along. The past few posts kinda prove that. I'd like to get more fans to doing that... on both sides.

So thank you for your reply Gubaba.

For me.. My posts in this thread aren't about getting acceptance for Robotech in the eyes of Macross fans or vice versa... It's just about trying to establish some civil conversations and hopefully a little more understanding.

M.W.

[Gubaba]

GUBABA

I respect that.. You gave your reasons and what you liked and didn't like without spouting hate for someone else who enjoyed what you didn't necessarily like. You didn't berate me for bein a fan on Robotech, you didn't berate others who do either. You even said, as you've said else where, that there were aspects of Robotech that you liked... and it shouldn't be considered by anyone else to be a bad thing that you do.

So there is clearly ground for fans of both shows to get along. The past few posts kinda prove that. I'd like to get more fans to doing that... on both sides.

So thank you for your reply Gubaba.

For me.. My posts in this thread aren't about getting acceptance for Robotech in the eyes of Macross fans or vice versa... It's just about trying to establish some civil conversations and hopefully a little more understanding.

M.W.

Heh...a few decades ago (hell, even a few YEARS ago), I probably wouldn't have been so diplomatic...

But I think a lot of the hate or lack thereof is due to how this site is approached. Seto mentioned Captain Donovan, who showed up, got REALLY defensive because of this thread (to the point where he implicitly compared himself to Rosa Parks, saying he was being forced to sit at the back of the "fan bus" ), and finally flounced off. Needless to say, he didn't get a warm welcome for that. I've been similarly short with people who have attacked me, either here or elsewhere. It's a natural instinct. Besides, you have NO IDEA how many times Robotech fans have shown up here over the years, trying to get us to see the error of our ways. I'm sure the same thing happens in reverse at RT.com, but no matter who's doing it, it's annoying. As such, a lot of people here (myself included, at times) have our guard up as soon as someone shows up saying, "I love Robotech!" (especially if it's followed with, "but I just got banned from Robotech.com!")...if they haven't seen the original Macross, even more warning bells go off.

But yeah...play nice, be fair, take a look through the "Series and Movies" forum, and ignore VF5SS and Keith, and everything should be fine.

[VF5SS]

VF5SS

but i love you

[Gubaba]

but i love you

I love you too, Veef, but you play kinda rough with the Robotechnologists.

[VF5SS]

I love you too, Veef

bomber hugs <3

[Gubaba]

bomber hugs <3

Carrot Mylene loves you yeah!

[VFTF1]

Well this is just horrible. I go away for a few weeks and suddenly everyone loves everyone and there's some rational, sane and polite Robotech fan who knows how to spell on the boards. What is the world coming to?

In any event - for what it's worth Mark - I always liked the Paladium RPGs. Beyond that - the series is inferior. I couldn't bring myself to watch Robotech and Macross seperately. I like things in their original form; so I'd rather even just go watch Mospedea and Southern Cross as they were originally concieved...

Pete

[Gubaba]

Well this is just horrible. I go away for a few weeks and suddenly everyone loves everyone and there's some rational, sane and polite Robotech fan who knows how to spell on the boards. What is the world coming to?

But...but...there's also MYLENE! Wearing a CARROT!!

[Mr March]

I've started seeing more podcasts, and more blogs about Robotech over the past year than ever before, even though the fanbase has never seemed smaller and more secluded than ever before. So long as they're writing sane stuff, and being a fan, I think that's all gravy. I enjoy listening and reading from JT's podcasts, and reading Cpt. JLS's blog can be fun and informative. I think it's good that people who enjoy their fandom, whatever it is, find their outlets to talk about it. It is unfortunate that some of them have been lumped into the likes of the other podcasts and nutjobs out there. Like the variations of Macross fans that post here and throughout this site, RT fans vary the same...from casual interest, to the knowledgable, to the vocally wacked out.

As I was reading through the last 2 pages, it seemed like JLS was getting a bit of heat for starting his blog again, and I was trying to figure out why. I read his blog periodically, and while it's not always my cup of tea, I have to take my hat off to him for getting his interest back in the franchise. If his blog was about badmouthing other series like Macross or others, or speaking flat out lies, and was just an essay on garbage, then yeah, I could see why people would criticize it, but to some extent, he's been one of those RT fans that actually enjoys the show. I probably disagree with him on a few opinions, but hey, that's people.

I like this post and believe some of your thoughts inform one of the big lessons many of us learned years ago, which is to think of Macross in terms of itself and forget about Robotech. Perhaps that realization naturally comes with age and maturity, but partially it stems from simply re-evaluating the reason why we're all online sharing Macross fan talk among each other in the first place (well, most of us anyway). I will say that as focused as I was on Macross fandom, the creation of a fansite was an eye-opening experience in context of broader fan reaction. While there have been some few bad reactions to the site (even from Macross fans), I was not prepared for the greater positive praise for the site beyond Macross World. Several online communities, even Robotech related, have enthusiastically embraced the site. I've even indirectly encountered numerous fans online promoting and defending the site, which is something I never expected anyone would do. Fans from all kinds of properties (Macross, Robotech, Battletech, Gundam, Evangelion, Patlabor, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc) and from all around the world (UK, Japan, Russia, Brazil, etc) have e-mailed me about the site, offering thanks, asking questions or just to say hello. Call me a bit jaded, but given how poorly many of us have acted online in the past and the way it continues with each new generation, I was never expecting much from anyone. It was delightful in this particular circumstance to be proven wrong

If there is one thing I want to endorse in your post and draw from my own experience with a fansite it is that more fans should engage others online in support of whatever property they admire rather than combating the other fandoms. I know there is much to be upset about in regards to HG/Robotech and I'd be lying if I didn't admit those demons never completely go to rest. However, Macross is so much better served in the eyes of both fans and non-fans if the franchise is simply celebrated rather than defended from HG/Robotech or forcibly preached unto the unconverted. Trust me, I've received more support from far more fans through building a fansite than I ever would have winning a thousand internet wars. You've raised a VERY important point in your post Jasonc and I want to do all I can to help promote it.

[Ginrai]

Once the original SDF Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada became easily available in the US, the issue vanished. Who cares?

[Einherjar]

I've started seeing more podcasts, and more blogs about Robotech over the past year than ever before, even though the fanbase has never seemed smaller and more secluded than ever before. So long as they're writing sane stuff, and being a fan, I think that's all gravy. I enjoy listening and reading from JT's podcasts, and reading Cpt. JLS's blog can be fun and informative. I think it's good that people who enjoy their fandom, whatever it is, find their outlets to talk about it. It is unfortunate that some of them have been lumped into the likes of the other podcasts and nutjobs out there. Like the variations of Macross fans that post here and throughout this site, RT fans vary the same...from casual interest, to the knowledgable, to the vocally wacked out.

As I was reading through the last 2 pages, it seemed like JLS was getting a bit of heat for starting his blog again, and I was trying to figure out why. I read his blog periodically, and while it's not always my cup of tea, I have to take my hat off to him for getting his interest back in the franchise. If his blog was about badmouthing other series like Macross or others, or speaking flat out lies, and was just an essay on garbage, then yeah, I could see why people would criticize it, but to some extent, he's been one of those RT fans that actually enjoys the show. I probably disagree with him on a few opinions, but hey, that's people.

Please look at the post dated 9.15.2008. It's called "Levi watches Macross Frontier so you and I don't have to. I think this means I owe him a cake or something":

http://sdf5x.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html

'>

http://sdf5x.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html

My criticism about the 365 thing was that, sometimes a cake is just a cake.

[Freiflug88]

But...but...there's also MYLENE! Wearing a CARROT!!

You know what the best part about seeing Mylene in Ranka's carrot outfit is, IMO? The chance that perhaps we will see Alice Holiday performing in Sheryl's suspenders and hot pants at her next concert.

Besides I also think Mylene looks better in a purple and black flightsuit

Even though she is missing a cute little skull on her flightsuit though

Edited July 21, 2010 by Freiflug88

[Noyhauser]

Please look at the post dated 9.15.2008. It's called "Levi watches Macross Frontier so you and I don't have to. I think this means I owe him a cake or something":

http://sdf5x.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html

'>

http://sdf5x.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html

My criticism about the 365 thing was that, sometimes a cake is just a cake.

Yeah, reading the guest review, he says that he enjoyed most macross series and that his general problem with Frontier is that its highly derivative of SDF (which is an opinion quite a few people share.) That seems to be the opinion of JLS as well.

[Noyhauser]

GUBABA

I respect that.. You gave your reasons and what you liked and didn't like without spouting hate for someone else who enjoyed what you didn't necessarily like. You didn't berate me for bein a fan on Robotech, you didn't berate others who do either. You even said, as you've said else where, that there were aspects of Robotech that you liked... and it shouldn't be considered by anyone else to be a bad thing that you do.

So there is clearly ground for fans of both shows to get along. The past few posts kinda prove that. I'd like to get more fans to doing that... on both sides.

So thank you for your reply Gubaba.

For me.. My posts in this thread aren't about getting acceptance for Robotech in the eyes of Macross fans or vice versa... It's just about trying to establish some civil conversations and hopefully a little more understanding.

M.W.

See here's my problem Mark coming from an individual who was raised on Macross and never watched Robotech until I was much older. I can understand and even appreciate your desire just to have a rational basis for discussion and build a bridge of mutual respect. Unfortunately what you support actually works to the detriment of my own interests and enjoyment. For the past decade HG has prevented me from legally obtaining products which I want to enjoy. I'm basically paying 20~100% markups on Macross models and other products which HG has nothing even close to an alternative to.

Now I might have more sympathy and understanding for HG if it acted like a proper creative company that put out new and interesting products frequently. Unfortunately that isn't HG. It is an organization that oversees a moribund franchise. They hype up a small number of products for months or years, and then release something thats exceptionally mediocre. I see a company hell bent to defend its Intellectual property (which it obtained based on tenuous legal grounds) and squeeze every dollar out of them. By comparison Big West in Japan has been doing producing great series that have resulted in great products, yet they are unavailable here.

So I can understand you can distinguish robotech from macross cognitively. Unfortunately the reality is that legally they aren't separate and I and alot of people here are screwed because of it. By buying and supporting HG, Mark you're basically helping to support the very thing that takes away from my enjoyment. It makes it very difficult to have a constructive dialogue on this topic.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Noyhauser

[Jasonc]

Well it's a personal preference. And personal preferences really aren't something that can be argued. I like what I like... And for me Robotech isn't just the Macross Saga, but the entire series... even if I don't enjoy the Masters saga as much as the other two... Again.. it's just my preference as Macross is yours.

GUBABA

I respect that.. You gave your reasons and what you liked and didn't like without spouting hate for someone else who enjoyed what you didn't necessarily like. You didn't berate me for bein a fan on Robotech, you didn't berate others who do either. You even said, as you've said else where, that there were aspects of Robotech that you liked... and it shouldn't be considered by anyone else to be a bad thing that you do.

So there is clearly ground for fans of both shows to get along. The past few posts kinda prove that. I'd like to get more fans to doing that... on both sides.

So thank you for your reply Gubaba.

For me.. My posts in this thread aren't about getting acceptance for Robotech in the eyes of Macross fans or vice versa... It's just about trying to establish some civil conversations and hopefully a little more understanding.

M.W.

There's always gonna be a sense of "red flags" when new people come in, and while I am a fan of both series (Robotech up till late 80s), it's probably the only reason why I bother posting in this section. Sure, it gets heated at times because we get word of someone mouthing off a lie, or fabrication, but I've said it countless times that I have a lot of friends who are Robotech specific fans, and don't know much, if anything about Macross. What keeps us friends isn't the franchise, but the fact that good people can talk, hang out, socialize, and even disagree, and it doesn't turn into anyone having to spread rumors and lies about each other. If ever there is an issue, it's settled like how normal people settle it, and it's done.

Online, a lot of the human factor is missing, and as soon as someone makes an argument in an open forum, all the alarms, bells and whistles go off. That's here, rt.com, rtx.com, hell, I can name you just about any site with a board that this happens in. I think the fact that you came in here with an understanding of both series, and don't feel the need to justify your fandom makes people at ease, and you should feel at ease. This thread is but one in a maze of so many others about toys, custom (you even posted yours here), art, conventions, and people just wanting to enjoy their hobbies. When did that become something people have to defend? Yeah, I know the HG business practices suck, but honestly, in this day and age, being able to buy the series online is totally fine with me. With the situation as it is now, I'd rather pay my extra bucks to keep Macross out of HG's hands, then have them possibly ruin it. Just my opinion.

I like this post and believe some of your thoughts inform one of the big lessons many of us learned years ago, which is to think of Macross in terms of itself and forget about Robotech. Perhaps that realization naturally comes with age and maturity, but partially it stems from simply re-evaluating the reason why we're all online sharing Macross fan talk among each other in the first place (well, most of us anyway). I will say that as focused as I was on Macross fandom, the creation of a fansite was an eye-opening experience in context of broader fan reaction. While there have been some few bad reactions to the site (even from Macross fans), I was not prepared for the greater positive praise for the site beyond Macross World. Several online communities, even Robotech related, have enthusiastically embraced the site. I've even indirectly encountered numerous fans online promoting and defending the site, which is something I never expected anyone would do. Fans from all kinds of properties (Macross, Robotech, Battletech, Gundam, Evangelion, Patlabor, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc) and from all around the world (UK, Japan, Russia, Brazil, etc) have e-mailed me about the site, offering thanks, asking questions or just to say hello. Call me a bit jaded, but given how poorly many of us have acted online in the past and the way it continues with each new generation, I was never expecting much from anyone. It was delightful in this particular circumstance to be proven wrong

If there is one thing I want to endorse in your post and draw from my own experience with a fansite it is that more fans should engage others online in support of whatever property they admire rather than combating the other fandoms. I know there is much to be upset about in regards to HG/Robotech and I'd be lying if I didn't admit those demons never completely go to rest. However, Macross is so much better served in the eyes of both fans and non-fans if the franchise is simply celebrated rather than defended from HG/Robotech or forcibly preached unto the unconverted. Trust me, I've received more support from far more fans through building a fansite than I ever would have winning a thousand internet wars. You've raised a VERY important point in your post Jasonc and I want to do all I can to help promote it.

Thanks for pointing out some of what I was trying to say earlier. And...you validate another point here. I've never really had to defend my fandom of Macross. It's my number one series, and no question, or ridicule, or whatever would change that (I'm not a walk-on either, and there is a line). I'm at a point where I also don't need to defend the franchise. If the franchise is faltering, they have themselves to defend it. Any series, franchise, whatnot, should stand on its own merit. If someone wants a podcast that spits out how much they hate Macross, what is that gonna change? Is that gonna make the series worse? Is it gonna make them close up shop? Macross has more fans, product, publications, music, and word out now than just about anytime since it's beginnings. So, why do I need to get in an argument with someone over why I like and why they should? If they don't, their loss, if they do like it, then it's something in common.

Same could be said with Robotech. I don't think people need to defend it either. If there are that many people who feel the need to defend their franchise, then either 1)They're taking this all too personally, or 2)Perhaps the frachise isn't doing enough to show itself approved. I guess the conclusion to all this is, criticism and dislike for something is natural. There's no point in belittling someone or getting on them for liking something different. Let them be a fan, and if they wanna stay on one side of the fence, that's cool. Those that like visiting the neighbors, all the merrier.

[EXO]

The most fun thing about Robotech is singing the main theme with Pews! And when the lasers shoot at the end you can go PEW! PEW! PEW! even louder.

[taksraven]

Once the original SDF Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada became easily available in the US, the issue vanished. Who cares?

Um. Dude. We still can't officially get FB2012, M7, M0 and MF as well as a heap of other stuff in the West thanks to the cease and desist factory Harmony Gold.

I care.

Taksraven

[Phyrox]

...so I'd rather even just go watch Mospedea and Southern Cross as they were originally concieved...

Pete

You lie. No one wants to watch Southern Cross.

[Freiflug88]

The most fun thing about Robotech is singing the main theme with Pews! And when the lasers shoot at the end you can go PEW! PEW! PEW! even louder.

I will have to try that. So far the most fun I have ever had as a Robotech fan was getting drunk on Protoculture while watching the RDF team beat the snot out of the UN Spacey at the World Cup and then vandalizing parked Valkyries in a victory riot.

You lie. No one wants to watch Southern Cross.

Well, I actually wanna watch Southern Cross. Again for the second time. Does that count?

[Jasonc]

I will have to try that. So far the most fun I have ever had as a Robotech fan was getting drunk on Protoculture while watching the RDF team beat the snot out of the UN Spacey at the World Cup and then vandalizing parked Valkyries in a victory riot.

Well, I actually wanna watch Southern Cross. Again for the second time. Does that count?

Have you heard the new Robotech drink to have on ships? It's called Zarayba!!! What's funny is that my wife makes a drink that she calls Protoculture Punch. It induces behavior and activities other than war and combat.

And while I wasn't the biggest fan of Robotech's version of Southern Cross, Southern Cross in its original format is quite a bit better and easy to understand.

[chrisk]

In the end, everyone has the right to like/dislike the original Robotech series. Being a passionate fan is okay, sometimes great like Captain JLS, just don't be some hardcore jerk who'd sell his soul just so he can fancy himself some kind of Robotech "insider". Nothing is sadder, really.

As for the rest of us, vote with your wallet.

Edited July 22, 2010 by chrisk

[Jasonc]

In the end, everyone has the right to like/dislike the original Robotech series. Being a passionate fan is okay, sometimes great like Captain JLS, just don't be some hardcore jerk who'd sell his soul just so he can fancy himself some kind of Robotech "insider". Nothing is sadder, really.

As for the rest of us, vote with your wallet.

You said so much in so little. Well said brother!!!

[anime52k8]

Um. Dude. We still can't officially get FB2012, M7, M0 and MF as well as a heap of other stuff in the West thanks to the cease and desist factory Harmony Gold.

I care.

Taksraven

torrents, have you heard of them?

[Aladdin Sane]

torrents, have you heard of them?

"Officially" is the operative word.

[Seto Kaiba]

I appreciate your candid replies Seto and I do hope that my replies aren't taken out of context by anyone or that anything is added that is not intended.

Well, I'm glad you appreciate my candour... though make no mistake, I prefer to tell it like it is whenever possible, so I'll probably say something that'll piss you off sooner or later.

But I must ask.. If what you said above is true.. and as you stated "There are very few folks in the Macross Fandom who genuinely object to Robotech itself”... Then Why is it I see so many direct attacks on Robotech that do not relate to HG?

Perhaps "object to" is insufficiently strong for what I'd intended. There aren't many people in the Macross fandom who actively dislike Robotech as a whole. There are plenty of people, even in the Robotech fandom, who dislike part of Robotech. The Shadow Chronicles movie is only the most recent example of this principle. It doesn't necessarily mean those people hate and/or look down on the whole thing. If I might draw on an example, the podcaster Zen72/JT strongly objects to Shadow Chronicles, and we've spent many an hour bagging on it together... yet that doesn't mean he dislikes the rest of Robotech. There will also be people who object to rewrites like Robotech, but on the whole there aren't many people who actively dislike the entire thing and choose to make a fuss about it instead of just ignoring it.

This makes a sharp contrast to Robotech fans, who are being actively encouraged to take umbrage over anything to do with Macross... to such an extent that they all too often go so far as to label anyone who disagrees with them and happens to like Macross as a "Macross purist troll".

Redo the entire series from scratch and, putting it in today's lingo, make it something that today's audience can relate to. Or is that too hard?

If we take McKeever at his word... yes, it is too hard.

The official line on the matter is that they can't (or won't) make a new TV series unless they can first get an episode commitment from a network. Since Robotech is obscure and fairly unpopular in anime circles, no network wants anything to do with it. Even Canada's SyFy channel knockoff dropped Robotech pretty quickly after only allowing it to run in the nosebleed timeslot of 7:00am Saturday morning.

But...but...there's also MYLENE! Wearing a CARROT!!

And it is awesome!

In the end, everyone has the right to like/dislike the original Robotech series. Being a passionate fan is okay, sometimes great like Captain JLS, just don't be some hardcore jerk who'd sell his soul just so he can fancy himself some kind of Robotech "insider". Nothing is sadder, really.

As for the rest of us, vote with your wallet.

It's a nice suggestion in theory... but unfortunately due to copious sucking-up and being in the right place at the right time, the guys who've sold their souls for what they fondly imagine is insider status are the ones who have largely been entrusted with maintaining the fan community, so the passionate-yet-sane fans are a dwindling band who are increasingly being labeled outcasts and heretics in their own fandom... it's quite sad.

[Freiflug88]

Have you heard the new Robotech drink to have on ships? It's called Zarayba!!! What's funny is that my wife makes a drink that she calls Protoculture Punch. It induces behavior and activities other than war and combat.

Sounds like bubble gum and so what I do when I run out of Protoculture Punch though? Cause I always find myself going on alien shooting sprees like Roddy Piper when "I am all out of bubble gum."

[Penguin]

[snip]Even Canada's SyFy channel knockoff[snip]

That reads as quite dismissive of our beloved "Space" channel. At least they haven't stooped to professional wrestling.

[Seto Kaiba]

That reads as quite dismissive of our beloved "Space" channel. At least they haven't stooped to professional wrestling.

It was meant to be... after all, the only reason the "Space" channel exists is because the CRTC wanted to stop Canadian cable and satellite providers from importing the SciFi Channel, done in the name of maximizing the amount of "Canadian content" on the air. Rather a pointless gesture, since a lot of what they're running is shows purchased from the SciFi/SyFy channel and run in a delayed airing.