HG and Robotech Debates

[azrael]

I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but again, the only place we've seen Tatsunoko claim story copyright ownership is here in the U.S. If in fact they had full story ownership in Japan as well, they'd be able to pwn Big West & Studio Nue over derivative sequals, which they obviously hae not.

I'm not talking about the Macross-franchise, only SDFM which is the only relevant part of to RT.

[Keith]

I'm not talking about the Macross-franchise, only SDFM which is the only relevant part of to RT.

It all ties back to SDM:TV, whoever owns the story rights to that, is in the right to derive it for sequals.

[Funkenstein]

Tatsunoko was only involved in producing it. The story was created by Studio Nue. The animation is "owned" by Tatsunoko in the same sense that one can own a DVD. They don't own the story,characters or artwork.

[Gubaba]

Tatsunoko was only involved in producing it. The story was created by Studio Nue. The animation is "owned" by Tatsunoko in the same sense that one can own a DVD. They don't own the story,characters or artwork.

Are we SURE there was no "work for hire"-type deal made here...?

[Funkenstein]

Are we SURE there was no "work for hire"-type deal made here...?

From what I heard, Studio Nue was shopping its show around until Tatsunoko picked it up. Someone should clear it up for us. If Tatsunoko did hire Studio Nue to do a show, then all the intellectual privileges would be owned by Tatsunoko.

[Seto Kaiba]

From what I heard, Studio Nue was shopping its show around until Tatsunoko picked it up. Someone should clear it up for us. If Tatsunoko did hire Studio Nue to do a show, then all the intellectual privileges would be owned by Tatsunoko.

If memory serves, Perfect Memory says that Tatsunoko joined the production only after Big West had already got the ball rolling and determined that it was going to run more expensive than they were budgeting. The court documents leave no room for doubt, since the 2002 court ruling says Tatsunoko has no claim on the disputed design works because they were neither involved in their creation nor funded their creation. By a similar token, the 2003 court ruling over ownership of the animation itself found that Tatsunoko owned the animation because they'd paid for its production, but that Big West owned the contents because they created it all before Tatsunoko got involved.

All the same, ownership of the Macross story was never disputed during these rounds of legal back-and-forth. It does appear, given Big West's various adaptations thereof, that it belongs to them rather than Tatsunoko.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[azrael]

If memory serves, Perfect Memory says that Tatsunoko joined the production only after Big West had already got the ball rolling and determined that it was going to run more expensive than they were budgeting. The court documents leave no room for doubt, since the 2002 court ruling says Tatsunoko has no claim on the disputed design works because they were neither involved in their creation nor funded their creation. By a similar token, the 2003 court ruling over ownership of the animation itself found that Tatsunoko owned the animation because they'd paid for its production, but that Big West owned the contents because they created it all before Tatsunoko got involved.

All the same, ownership of the Macross story was never disputed during these rounds of legal back-and-forth. It does appear, given Big West's various adaptations thereof, that it belongs to them rather than Tatsunoko.

If you read the 2003 document, it specifies that Big West took the SDFM-story proposal (which was done before Tatsunoko came in, and is what BW owns) to Tatsunoko (i.e. they showed their outline of what they wanted to do). Tatsunoko took that idea and did the actual production of that idea. The episode-to-episode screenplay of the SDFM-series, the story chronology of the SDFM-series, or the story of the SDFM-TV series, or what you wish to call it is what is owned by Tatsunoko because they were involved in its production.

[Bri]

hmm, is the story not part of the authors' rights part of copyrights (though this might differ from country to country)? As far as I'm aware authors' rights mean a story can only be owned by a natural person and those rights are not transferable (except after death). Copyrights on stories by a firm can as such only pertain to economic rights.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Bri

[Einherjar]

It would not take this long to come up with anything new with the story, LAM, if those rights actually meant anything.

[Keith]

No, I'm pretty sure Big West already began production before Tatsunoko was involved, we were all pretty deep into this crap during the whole court dealings. The final word was definately:

-Big West: Story, concepts, designs, etc.

-Tatsunoko: International distribution of the completed animation.

[chrisk]

I heard HG asked WB to lock up a hundred monkeys with typewriters to write the LAM script. No luck so far except for a room full of dead monkeys.

Edited July 15, 2010 by chrisk

[Seto Kaiba]

It would not take this long to come up with anything new with the story, LAM, if those rights actually meant anything.

Indeed, one has to wonder why it's taking them so long to come up with anything for a story for the Robotech live action movie. There is, however, a growing body of evidence that seems to suggest a rather more mundane reason for their lack of progress. Specifically, it looks like neither the studio nor the producers consider working on Robotech a priority.

Far from being the fast-tracked future blockbuster that Harmony Gold and the die-hards want to make it out to be, it looks like Robotech has been put on the back burner by Maguire in favor of working on other projects with broader appeal at least twice since it announced. If I had to hazard a guess as to why, I'd say that they've finally realized what they've bought was trounced by Transformers back in the 80's when it first debuted, and are growing uneasy about staking a large amount of money on a franchise with a history of failure as prolific as Robotech's in the hopes that it will dethrone the Transformers juggernaut.

I heard HG asked WB to lock up a hundred monkeys with typewriters to write the LAM script. No luck so far except for a room full of dead monkeys.

And yet, a hundred dead monkeys in a room full of typewriters is still a huge step up from the in-house writers that Harmony Gold's "creative" team has. I'd rate them rather higher than the mooks from Smallville too.

[jenius]

The trick for a Robotech LAM would be to not be compared to Transformers. SK is right, Transformers is a more popular series and if Robotech tries to steal its thunder Robotech will be known as the Go-Bots movie of the 2010s. I'd say the huge benefit Robotech has is that whoever tries to make a movie out of it won't have to deal with trying to give the robots personalities or debating whether or not to spend more time developing the robots or the humans. They might actually be wise to have the first third of the movie feature humans fighting in "power-suits" or destroids and then develop the transforming super jets to help turn the tide of the war.

[Seto Kaiba]

The trick for a Robotech LAM would be to not be compared to Transformers. SK is right, Transformers is a more popular series and if Robotech tries to steal its thunder Robotech will be known as the Go-Bots movie of the 2010s.

Unfortunately for the LAM, that particular ship sailed a looooooooooong time ago.

Almost immediately after the announcement that Maguire Ent. had acquired the live action movie rights, it got out that the whole reason Warner was interested in a Robotech live action movie was in hopes that it could ape the ridiculous success of Michael Bay's Transformers movie. This is ironic in the extreme since, by all indications, even the original Robotech series started as an attempt to imitate the success of the original Transformers series without doing any actual creative work.

In retrospect, it seems somewhat silly for Warner Bros to have pinned their hopes for a Transformers-like success on Robotech. The G1 Transformers cartoon absolutely buried Robotech in the television ratings back in 1985, and even Carl Macek pointed to competition from Transformers: the Movie as a major factor that contributed to the demise of Robotech: the Movie. Expecting Robotech to compete with Transformers isn't just betting on the wrong horse, it's betting on the wrong horse long after the race is over.

[chrisk]

If I said that next year will be the Year of Jack Baker, would you squeal with delight, or groan in despair?

[taksraven]

If I said that next year will be the Year of Jack Baker, would you squeal with delight, or groan in despair?

I think I would shoot myself. (joke) So, is it the sort of thing that you are likely to say?

Taksraven

[Robelwell202]

They might actually be wise to have the first third of the movie feature humans fighting in "power-suits" or destroids and then develop the transforming super jets to help turn the tide of the war.

Then, people will simply say that it's a lame attempt to ride the coat tails of The Matrix trilogy (specifically, the last one), District 9, and Avatar.

It's a no-win situation, no matter how a person looks at it.

[anime52k8]

If I said that next year will be the Year of Jack Baker, would you squeal with delight, or groan in despair?

I would ask Who the f*ck is Jack Baker? Then I would ask why do I care enough to post in this thread? then I would leave.

[chrisk]

I would ask Who the f*ck is Jack Baker? Then I would ask why do I care enough to post in this thread? then I would leave.

I think I would shoot myself. (joke) So, is it the sort of thing that you are likely to say?

Wow, I'm so glad I didn't mention Jack Archer.

Unfortunately, I got nothing for this bit. Next year is not going to be Jack Baker's year, nor this year for that matter. I must've misinterpreted Harmony Gold's little icon they got on the left of their dated site.

Can I make it up to you with this funny story? If ya'll head on over to Robotech Espanol, there's a post by Juan, also known as the second biggest Robotech fan on the planet next to you know who

To HG: R.Focker was just banned from rt.com site, we want to know why? I think it was unfair to him that for the past 5 years he's been a loyal fan of the site and to the cause. The pic above was not taken by him. He lives in Chile he was not there when they show this pic.

I think It was really unfair to him, a bann with no chance to undo whatever you think he did wrong. In the end he is, like me, promoting Robotech for free out of love for the series. I think this is very wrong....

Anyone care to cry for the that Focker?

[Funkenstein]

I always wondered why the girl in the unitard in the previous picture was holding a GAU-12 gunpod. Is she supposed to be a Zent?

[hulagu]

I always wondered why the girl in the unitard in the previous picture was holding a GAU-12 gunpod. Is she supposed to be a Zent?

It appears to be Sera/Sorji from Mospeada (who actually resembles her original appearance unlike certain other Invid "princesses"), equipped with the gear from the Invid Enforcer suit.

Edited July 15, 2010 by hulagu

[anime52k8]

what gets me about this is that right under the gun pod thing on here arm you've got a couple of gray shapes seperated by a curved, pick triangle. and the more I look at it the harder it is to figure out just what the sh/t is going on with her lower body. are we looking at both her legs sticking out from below that gunpod? is that pink trianglesupposed to be her ass or something? how the hell is that even connected to what's going on with her upper body? God f*cking damnit tommy LEARN TO HUMAN ANATOMY!

[hulagu]

Anyone care to cry for the that Focker?

He spelt Fokker as "Focker". Clearly, he was a counterrevolutionary and a spy. "The Cause?!" Really?

Edited July 15, 2010 by hulagu

[chrisk]

what gets me about this is that right under the gun pod thing on here arm you've got a couple of gray shapes seperated by a curved, pick triangle. and the more I look at it the harder it is to figure out just what the sh/t is going on with her lower body. are we looking at both her legs sticking out from below that gunpod? is that pink triangle supposed to be her ass or something? how the hell is that even connected to what's going on with her upper body? God f*cking damnit tommy LEARN TO HUMAN ANATOMY!

Better pray to the art gods its just camera lens distortion.

Still, Harmony Gold is going for a slow burn on this one. Real incognito for what should be a big, big deal.

[azrael]

Won't be the first time a comic artist drew an anatomically incorrect body...

[Einherjar]

"The Cause?!" Really?

Many fans have been more militant about a TV show recently, particularly against people like us. I call it envy since HG keeps making them wait year after year on money sinkholes.

[Funkenstein]

Won't be the first time a comic artist drew an anatomically incorrect body...

HG needs to hire Liefeld to do a proper anatomically incorrect comic.

[Zor Primus]

HG needs to hire Liefeld to do a proper anatomically incorrect comic.

Jim Lee > Rob Liefeld

[Seto Kaiba]

Can I make it up to you with this funny story? If ya'll head on over to Robotech Espanol, there's a post by Juan, also known as the second biggest Robotech fan on the planet next to you know who

So, once again Harmony Gold bites the hand that feeds them. So what?

I mean, sure... if you were a heretic like me you could argue that this is easily the best thing Harmony Gold has done for Robotech's 25th Anniversary so far. Or you could even say that if they'd started banhammering the lunatic fringe on sight years ago and never given members of it moderator powers, their site wouldn't be the virtual ghost town that it is these days. Still, now that Harmony Gold is pinning its hopes for Robotech's future on a live action reboot of the story, fans of the animated series have never been less relevant.

It appears to be Sera/Sorji from Mospeada (who actually resembles her original appearance unlike certain other Invid "princesses"), equipped with the gear from the Invid Enforcer suit.

In the exact same pose as said suit too, just flipped horizontal.

Many fans have been more militant about a TV show recently, particularly against people like us. I call it envy since HG keeps making them wait year after year on money sinkholes.

Indeed... of course, part of that is the fault of MEMO1DOMINION and Maverick_LSC, who've been helping spread baseless speculation around. It's pretty damn obvious that the reason they're so hostile to Macross fans these days is that they're green-eyed jealous that we get good content at reasonable intervals, while they waited 20 years for Harmony Gold to continue a nominal cliffhanger with a piece of badly written fan-fiction.

[Jasonc]

Wow, I'm so glad I didn't mention Jack Archer.

Unfortunately, I got nothing for this bit. Next year is not going to be Jack Baker's year, nor this year for that matter. I must've misinterpreted Harmony Gold's little icon they got on the left of their dated site.

Can I make it up to you with this funny story? If ya'll head on over to Robotech Espanol, there's a post by Juan, also known as the second biggest Robotech fan on the planet next to you know who

Anyone care to cry for the that Focker?

Wanna know what's really sad, is that the people who probably banned him are the same moderators who posted the link on rtx.com. Of course, the link to the pic is now graciously edited out since Tommy called and made a big deal about it. Still, WTF? Instead of opening the flood gates of announcements, and getting the fans interacting with product announcements, they're playing the "secret news is better news" as always. Pretty Effin' stupid. That said, as far as "Martha Focker" or whoever he is, he's probably better off not going there. It's the last place for news anyways.

what gets me about this is that right under the gun pod thing on here arm you've got a couple of gray shapes seperated by a curved, pick triangle. and the more I look at it the harder it is to figure out just what the sh/t is going on with her lower body. are we looking at both her legs sticking out from below that gunpod? is that pink trianglesupposed to be her ass or something? how the hell is that even connected to what's going on with her upper body? God f*cking damnit tommy LEARN TO HUMAN ANATOMY!

I think that pink triangle is her attempting to learn to wear hot pink panties. Don't you know,,,guns, fire, and explosions is Robotech these days, and when you add in the pink undies, you really got designs from those young Korean animators (disclaimer: This is a referrence to a similar excuse Tommy used, I'm not racist)

Hahaha, first time I had to use a disclaimer. Wow.

[chrisk]

Wanna know what's really sad? It's that the people who probably banned him are the same moderators who posted the link on rtx.com.

You mean the same mod who took his own contraband pictures and showed it to a couple of strangers during a screening of Trigun at AX? Can a mod ban himself for breaking the rules?

Of course, the link to the pic is now graciously edited out since Tommy called and made a big deal about it.

Aww... So cute. Let me see if I can explain to Tommy why this incident happened:

#1 The hardest of the hardcore fanboys are left

#2 Cellphone camera technology has come a long way

#3 Prolonged franchise production news blackout / Multiple promises and vague panel answers

#4 Transformers is already a trilogy while Robotech can't even get a script

And Tommy's poo-pooing that the interwebs gets to see this grainy shot for free? Guess who's the real Focker now...

[Jasonc]

You mean the same mod who took his own contraband pictures and showed it to a couple of strangers during a screening of Trigun at AX? Can a mod ban himself for breaking the rules?

Aww... So cute. Let me see if I can explain to Tommy why this incident happened:

#1 The hardest of the hardcore fanboys are left

#2 Cellphone camera technology has come a long way

#3 Prolonged franchise production news blackout / Multiple promises and vague panel answers

#4 Transformers is already a trilogy while Robotech can't even get a script

And Tommy's poo-pooing that the interwebs gets to see this grainy shot for free? Guess who's the real Focker now...

Why even work on anything new? Robotech has real life drama better than anything they have come up with since 86. Hmmm, I was thinking of this just now, since this seems to be the only site remotely related to RT that has this pic up, I guess that means the real news is here (or proof that it's been here).

[chrisk]

Why even work on anything new? Robotech has real life drama better than anything they have come up with since 86. Hmmm, I was thinking of this just now, since this seems to be the only site remotely related to RT that has this pic up, I guess that means the real news is here (or proof that it's been here).

Yeah... It's kinda sad that 20 years of fandom "politics", shady office drama, failed projects and merchandising efforts, and the entire license debate is significantly more compelling than anything this current crop of chumps can accomplish.

Unless you have high hopes with another Tommy Yune helmed beast.

[Seto Kaiba]

You mean the same mod who took his own contraband pictures and showed it to a couple of strangers during a screening of Trigun at AX? Can a mod ban himself for breaking the rules?

Yep... the very same, though he's ascribed to a "do as I say, not as I do" and "the rules don't apply to me" stance for a good long while now.

And Tommy's poo-pooing that the interwebs gets to see this grainy shot for free?

All things considered, he should probably be grateful... after all, the drama he's stirring up over this "leak" probably got that anatomically incorrect mess ten times the exposure that it would otherwise have gotten.

Yeah... It's kinda sad that 20 years of fandom "politics", shady office drama, failed projects and merchandising efforts, and the entire license debate is significantly more compelling than anything this current crop of chumps can accomplish.

That principle doesn't just apply to Robotech. No matter what the subject, the fastest way to get people's attention is with some public drama. On average, more people outside any given fandom are more inclined to pay attention to internal drama between fans than they are the subject matter itself. Case in point: Twilight. Tens of thousands of men who've never seen the movies or read the books (myself included) find it vaguely amusing and a little bit disturbing to see middle-aged housewives and socially-inept teenagers beat the snot out of each other over which shallow pretty-boy is better.

[Einherjar]

Wanna know what's really sad, is that the people who probably banned him are the same moderators who posted the link on rtx.com. Of course, the link to the pic is now graciously edited out since Tommy called and made a big deal about it. Still, WTF? Instead of opening the flood gates of announcements, and getting the fans interacting with product announcements, they're playing the "secret news is better news" as always. Pretty Effin' stupid. That said, as far as "Martha Focker" or whoever he is, he's probably better off not going there. It's the last place for news anyways.

So why did they reveal something in AX if they didn't want news about it to spread? This being the Internet age, it's very hard to keep anything said publicly secret without making a scene. Screw loyalty and etc., this would be something a company would want everyone to know and not keep as privileged information.

That is, unless they have done very little to get things rolling for this secret project, say like getting Taks to agree to take a risk with it. Notice how HG's collaborators for Robotech productions rarely support them in any way.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Einherjar