HG and Robotech Debates

[areaseven]

I know it's not exactly the point you were making, but I would way rather watch the Sentinels than Shadow Chronicles.

I'd rather watch Battlefield Earth than those two again. Yes, they're that bad.

So no, they don't own Astro Plan, nor do they own your parodies...Unless for some bizarre reason, they decide to use them. In which case, you could sue them for monetary damages.

The Astro Plan 9 from Outer Space videos are posted on the official RT Facebook, so what happens now?

[Dynaman]

Now, as Seto mentioned, it's treading a line. HG has the standard "no-unsolicited-material"-clause but at the same time, they have a fan-works section.

The no-unsolicited material clause keeps them from getting sued, the fan section does the same thing - so there is NO confusion. It works since the rules on the Fan section clearly state that by sending something there you are giving up all rights to the item. Sending in unsolicited material in the mail does not mean you are giving up all rights to the material - so all companies SAY they will send such things back unopened (there have been enough cases were companies admit they did look at such material by "accident" that I wonder though)

[Ladic]

does anyone know a website that has a list of every robotech masterpiece ever released?

[azrael]

The Astro Plan 9 from Outer Space videos are posted on the official RT Facebook, so what happens now?

Absolutely nothing.

http://www.facebook.com/terms.php

You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings.

[HappyPenguins]

Absolutely nothing.

http://www.facebook.com/terms.php

I think you just crushed his dream =P

[Wanzerfan]

does anyone know a website that has a list of every robotech masterpiece ever released?

If you can stomach their sh|t: Robotech.com.

If you want to buy them, though, I think Amazon.com might have a [sarcasm]few[/sarcasm] left.

[jenius]

Every Robotech Masterpiece ever released? I would think Toynami.com would have that but I might be able to do it off the top of my head:

Series 1 VF-1

1) Rick Hunter MPC VF-1J

2) Ben Dixon MPC VF-1A

3) Roy Fokker MPC VF-1S

4) Max Sterling MPC VF-1J

5) Miriya Sterling MPC VF-1J

6) Jack Archer MPC YF-1R

A) Rick Hunter Super Parts

B) Max Sterling Super Parts

C) Miriya Sterling Super Parts

Series 2 Alpha

1) Scott Bernard VFA-6H

2) Rook Bartley VFA-6Z

3) Lancer VFA-6I

4) Sue Graham VFA-6X

5) Maia Sterling VFA-6ZX

Series 3 Beta

1) Rand VFB-9H

2) Annie VFB-9Z

3) Lunk VFB-9I

Series 4 Cyclone

1) Scott Bernard VR-052F

2) Rand O'Keef VR-052T

[Seto Kaiba]

I know it's not exactly the point you were making, but I would way rather watch the Sentinels than Shadow Chronicles.

Likewise... at least Sentinels was making a conscious effort to look like it was related to at least two of the three original shows. The Shadow Chronicles movie goes from obnoxious to horrifying when you realize that not only are you watching a bad Sentinels fanfic... you're watching Tommy Yune's personal masturbation material.

I'd rather watch Battlefield Earth than those two again. Yes, they're that bad.

Damn... that's a bit harsh. I guess Battlefield Earth could be conceived as a bit less obnoxious, since at least that wretched abortion has a little bit of closure... whereas Sentinels and Shadow Chronicles are little more than glorified pilot episodes for OVAs/series that were never made.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Ladic]

Every Robotech Masterpiece ever released? I would think Toynami.com would have that but I might be able to do it off the top of my head:

Series 1 VF-1

1) Rick Hunter MPC VF-1J

2) Ben Dixon MPC VF-1A

3) Roy Fokker MPC VF-1S

4) Max Sterling MPC VF-1J

5) Miriya Sterling MPC VF-1J

6) Jack Archer MPC YF-1R

A) Rick Hunter Super Parts

B) Max Sterling Super Parts

C) Miriya Sterling Super Parts

Series 2 Alpha

1) Scott Bernard VFA-6H

2) Rook Bartley VFA-6Z

3) Lancer VFA-6I

4) Sue Graham VFA-6X

5) Maia Sterling VFA-6ZX

Series 3 Beta

1) Rand VFB-9H

2) Annie VFB-9Z

3) Lunk VFB-9I

Series 4 Cyclone

1) Scott Bernard VR-052F

2) Rand O'Keef VR-052T

thanks a Bunch! are there more Cyclones coming out? or they only doing 2?

[Seto Kaiba]

thanks a Bunch! are there more Cyclones coming out? or they only doing 2?

No idea... but if I had to guess, I'd say that there's a strong possibility that Harmony Gold decided to discontinue the New Generation masterpiece collection after the reissued Maia Sterling VF/A-6ZX came out. There's been no movement on further New Generation MPCs since the Maia MPC was recalled, and the generally poor quality of both the initial mold and the reissue of the Maia Sterling one seems to have put a lot of Robotech fans off the idea of buying into the New Generation's Masterpiece Collection.

Judging by the current state of affairs on the Robotech.com store, it's safe to say that the New Generation MPCs have sold pretty poorly overall. Despite being extremely-limited edition collectibles¹, the only one of the New Generation MPCs to sell out so far is the very first one... Scott Bernard's VF/A-6H. Some of the New Generation's MPCs have been in the store for four or five years now without selling out, and appear to be in no danger of selling out anytime soon. My guess would be that they decided that they shouldn't waste any more time and money stocking products that don't sell, and made the decision to fall back on peddling Macross toys, which are practically guaranteed to sell considering the average Robotech fan's Macross-centric mindset.

1. Ordinarily, a limited run of 15,000 pieces. However, the runs have been getting progressively smaller as time has gone on. The Beta fighters were limited to 10,000 units, and the Maia reissue to 5,000.

[RDClip]

No idea... but if I had to guess, I'd say that there's a strong possibility that Harmony Gold decided to discontinue the New Generation masterpiece collection after the reissued Maia Sterling VF/A-6ZX came out. There's been no movement on further New Generation MPCs since the Maia MPC was recalled, and the generally poor quality of both the initial mold and the reissue of the Maia Sterling one seems to have put a lot of Robotech fans off the idea of buying into the New Generation's Masterpiece Collection.

Judging by the current state of affairs on the Robotech.com store, it's safe to say that the New Generation MPCs have sold pretty poorly overall. Despite being extremely-limited edition collectibles¹, the only one of the New Generation MPCs to sell out so far is the very first one... Scott Bernard's VF/A-6H. Some of the New Generation's MPCs have been in the store for four or five years now without selling out, and appear to be in no danger of selling out anytime soon. My guess would be that they decided that they shouldn't waste any more time and money stocking products that don't sell, and made the decision to fall back on peddling Macross toys, which are practically guaranteed to sell considering the average Robotech fan's Macross-centric mindset.

1. Ordinarily, a limited run of 15,000 pieces. However, the runs have been getting progressively smaller as time has gone on. The Beta fighters were limited to 10,000 units, and the Maia reissue to 5,000.

Toynami is more to blame for making such terrible quality products. Toynami seems to be following the HG business model of pure incompetence. But i still find it funny how Toynami tries to sweeten their bad products by slapping a 'limited' label on it. A piece of junk made in limited quantity is still a piece of junk.

I sometimes see MPCs on ebay for like $200+ (Roy and Rick) and i wonder if anyone in their right mind would pay that much for a mediocre product when they can get a Yamato for much less.

[areaseven]

Toynami is more to blame for making such terrible quality products. Toynami seems to be following the HG business model of pure incompetence. But i still find it funny how Toynami tries to sweeten their bad products by slapping a 'limited' label on it. A piece of junk made in limited quantity is still a piece of junk.

I sometimes see MPCs on ebay for like $200+ (Roy and Rick) and i wonder if anyone in their right mind would pay that much for a mediocre product when they can get a Yamato for much less.

That's because RT fans are never in their right minds. Time and time again, it's been proven that they are the most gullible people in the world (so are Twilight fans, but not close enough). They are willing to put up their homes on mortgage just to have something with the RT name on it - even toilet paper.

[Seto Kaiba]

Toynami is more to blame for making such terrible quality products. Toynami seems to be following the HG business model of pure incompetence. But i still find it funny how Toynami tries to sweeten their bad products by slapping a 'limited' label on it. A piece of junk made in limited quantity is still a piece of junk.

Eh... only so much of the blame can be laid on Toynami's doorstep. After all, the idiots running Harmony Gold continue to do business with them because quality is no object, and the idiots they're peddling this trash to are so dimwitted and ignorant that they'll buy it anyway even if it IS crap. Slapping a "limited edition" label on it is a safe way for Harmony Gold and Toynami to ensure that the nostalgia-blinded man-children that make up most of Robotech's fanbase will snap them up without hesitation to prove to each other that they're "serious" fans, while simultaneously ensuring that they won't end up stuck with a bunch of unsellable merchandise cluttering up their warehouse.

Of course, that last part hasn't worked out terribly well for them since they forgot that very few members of the Robotech fanbase actually give a damn about the New Generation or Mospeada.

I sometimes see MPCs on ebay for like $200+ (Roy and Rick) and i wonder if anyone in their right mind would pay that much for a mediocre product when they can get a Yamato for much less.

Oh, nobody in their right mind would willingly shell out $200 or more for a cheap knockoff of legitimate Macross or Mospeada merchandise, or even the legit stuff Harmony Gold's peddling at a huge markup... the thing that lets them keep getting away with it is that the majority of Robotech fans are not only hideously stupid, but also monumentally ignorant. Their mindless, slavish devotion to the Robotech "brand" and Harmony Gold will prompt them to buy any damn thing with the name or logo on it, regardless of quality or price.

Some of them simply aren't aware of the fact that they can easily get the same product at much higher quality and at comparable or lower prices by importing the OSM goods instead. Others just don't care, because they've bought into the Harmony Gold bullshit.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[jenius]

There are no additional Toynami Masterpiece Cyclones planned. The blame for this one doesn't really fall on Toynami's shoulders (and even less so, HG's). Beagle, the Japanese designer and manufacturer of the toy got screwed by the global economic downturn. The toys probably wouldn't have even seen a Scott Bernard (Stick) version if it weren't for Toynami's agreement to purchase a chunk of them. Even with Toynami's involvement there just weren't enough being made/sold to be truly profitable and so Beagle canned the project.

EDIT - it's also generous to say the Scott Bernard MPC Alpha sold out. While it's technically true that they are sold out of every store, it's also true that Toynami didn't make anywhere near 15000 of the toy (I think they stopped at 7500, I forget the number). So, it's entirely possible that Toynami will make another batch at some point and they will no longer be sold out. The same is true for all of the MPC Alpha toys, Toynami only made a portion of the stated maximum.

Edited June 27, 2010 by jenius

[taksraven]

That's because RT fans are never in their right minds. Time and time again, it's been proven that they are the most gullible people in the world (so are Twilight fans, but not close enough). They are willing to put up their homes on mortgage just to have something with the RT name on it - even toilet paper.

Some would say that they have a dedication that should be admired, but I think that their dedication should be mocked.......

Taksraven

[VF5SS]

The Tread toys were also a huge failure. Fans pushed so hard to get them produced that only to shy away with apathy for the big bricks that turn into bricks with wings.

We hit peak Mospeada.

[Seto Kaiba]

While it's technically true that they are sold out of every store, it's also true that Toynami didn't make anywhere near 15000 of the toy (I think they stopped at 7500, I forget the number). [...] The same is true for all of the MPC Alpha toys, Toynami only made a portion of the stated maximum.

Huh... well, so much for McKeever's tired old line about how Robotech merchandise sales are "going gangbusters". That they can't even move enough of their limited edition merchandise to meet the limit they arbitrarily imposed on it really says something about the dire straits the franchise is in. I have to admit, I can see why they find it easier to continue lying to the fans. If they ever came clean about how poorly the merchandise sells, the insane little fantasy world so many of its fans occupy would collapse under its own weight.

The Tread toys were also a huge failure. Fans pushed so hard to get them produced that only to shy away with apathy for the big bricks that turn into bricks with wings.

True... I think a fair few members of the Robotech fandom got carried away with the idea of new Robotech merchandise, and forgot that they didn't actually like the Beta/TREAD or the New Generation, and thus didn't actually buy it when it came out.

[areaseven]

Just wondering, several years ago, there was a rumor that HG signed with Mattel to churn out new RT toys (and this was only a couple or so years after Toynami was founded). Whatever happened beyond that rumor?

I just did a search, and all I could find were news articles on Mattel signing a video game distribution deal with HG back in 2000.

[Wanzerfan]

The only thing I have from the ToyNami line is a freaking chibi VAF-6R morpher (I know I'm using the R.P.G. designaton, so deal with it), you know the one that has the spring-powered wheels. I played with it for a while and then put it right back in the box. My brother has a limited edition chromed Rick Hunter chibi Veritech that came in a tin. I have to say of the two toys, the Rick Hunter one is of much shittier quality.

[azrael]

Huh... well, so much for McKeever's tired old line about how Robotech merchandise sales are "going gangbusters". That they can't even move enough of their limited edition merchandise to meet the limit they arbitrarily imposed on it really says something about the dire straits the franchise is in. I have to admit, I can see why they find it easier to continue lying to the fans. If they ever came clean about how poorly the merchandise sells, the insane little fantasy world so many of its fans occupy would collapse under its own weight.

One wonders how low they'll set the bar to claim success....

[Einherjar]

One wonders how low they'll set the bar to claim success....

It puts more stress on what is said and done, or not said and done, in events like the upcoming weekend.

[Moly_Sigang]

It puts more stress on what is said and done, or not said and done, in events like the upcoming weekend.

Guess this weekend Tommy Yune will have a lot of explaining to do.

[Jasonc]

thanks a Bunch! are there more Cyclones coming out? or they only doing 2?

For the MPC "Cyclones", there were the 2 only. Apparently, Beagle prototyped the Fuke (Rook Bartley), but the first 2 sold so poorly in Japan and in the U.S., Beagle decided to drop out of the Mospeada game. HG blames Beagle, but in reality, it was both Japanese and U.S. markets that sold poorly.

In regards to the Tread/Beta, the sales were poor, not because of quality from what I understand, but because of cost and the economy. I've had nothing but good things to say about mine (with the exception of the heavy, floppy legs), but $150 for an item that is more niche than Macross is kinda obvious. I don't think it's still a for sure thing about the Tread/Betas, but I think the Beagle Ride armors are gone the way of the dinosaur.

Oh, and on the Legioss/Alpha, those were the epic failure. I doubt they're gonna run back to those ever again. Poor manufacturing standards, and then going to a less poor manufacturer will kill anything it seems. And I think the MPC version of the cyclones didn't pass 5000, but if so, I think they started off with high numbers to pad the numbers. That's my opinion though.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Jasonc

[chrisk]

My question is is Toynami profitable? At least with their Robotech toyline? Why couldn't Toynami get those Alpha/Legioss Fighter moulds right even when they switched to an (allegedly) more efficient manufacturer?

Edited June 27, 2010 by chrisk

[jenius]

It's impossible to say whether or not Toynami's Robotech line is profitable. We can conclude that the fact they're still operating despite the global meltdown that has many companies that produced better wares hurting, Toynami as a whole is profitable (or at the very least, not too deep in the red). I would probably draw the conclusion that the early deaths of all their MPC lines after the VF-1 would be an indication that the lines were not much better than break even. They also seemed to lose shelf space with every release which means more and more stores felt they were getting shelf warmers which undoubtedly made it harder for the MPCs to be profitable.

[VF5SS]

It's impossible to say whether or not Toynami's Robotech line is profitable.

well apparently not because you just said they weren't

[Seto Kaiba]

One wonders how low they'll set the bar to claim success....

By my estimation... low enough to by a serious tripping hazard in a lilliputian town. As long as you can keep any data that would allow someone to quantify your "success" out of the hands of your critics, you can generate empty but impressive-sounding hype by simply setting the bar so low that sales that would be mediocre or pathetic for any competently run company are grounds for declaring your product's sales wildly exceeded expectations.

For a company like Harmony Gold, that depends almost exclusively on keeping their repeat customer base ignorant and blindly loyal, this sort of obvious malarkey might as well be second nature. Even though their lies and exaggerations are embarrassingly obvious, they have a consumer base that's been conditioned to want to believe their lies as a means of convincing themselves they haven't wasted 20+ years of their lives on a show that had no significant merits of its own even when it was new.

[jenius]

well apparently not because you just said they weren't

Are you my personal troll or just a troll in general? I actually said that "I would draw the conclusion" that they WERE profitable but below Toynami's desired ROI. Others are free to draw their own conclusions.

[Robelwell202]

This is gonna be redundant as hell, but who cares, right?

I still find it incredibly baffling that anyone could be so willingly gullible, enough even to buy HG's unending stream of lies, more lies, and just-plain-BULLSCHWAT!

To even try to understand this gives me a headache.

(Okay, I'm done now... resume)

[azrael]

This is gonna be redundant as hell, but who cares, right?

I still find it incredibly baffling that anyone could be so willingly gullible, enough even to buy HG's unending stream of lies, more lies, and just-plain-BULLSCHWAT!

To even try to understand this gives me a headache.

As I've said, a good portion of the fanbase are the part-timers, the ones who have little to no ties to either HG/Robotech or the Macross-franchise.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Maker-distributor-3rd party seller relationship, the maker only gets its numbers from the distributor, correct? There's normally little to no data coming from the 3rd-party group that makes its way to the maker (unless the distributor is the maker) because the maker mass-produces in pallets or some factory packaged quantity which gets sent to a distributor who passes it out in smaller, more seller-centric quantities, right? And the seller normally doesn't report anything back to the distributor since their bottom line is what merchandise they sell on their own, right?

[Funkenstein]

The only thing I have from the ToyNami line is a freaking chibi VAF-6R morpher (I know I'm using the R.P.G. designaton, so deal with it), you know the one that has the spring-powered wheels. I played with it for a while and then put it right back in the box. My brother has a limited edition chromed Rick Hunter chibi Veritech that came in a tin. I have to say of the two toys, the Rick Hunter one is of much shittier quality.

I have that chrome chibi. It was truly a piece of garbage. But thats okay because I bought it for 5 dollars.

[Wanzerfan]

I have that chrome chibi. It was truly a piece of garbage. But thats okay because I bought it for 5 dollars.

I envy you. My brother paid full retail for his over at the GameStop on Texas State Hwy 6 Copperfield location (don't bother looking for that particluar store, they closed it when they changed the ebGames that was located in the Copperfield Randall's shopping center to GameStop).

[HappyPenguins]

My question is is Toynami profitable? At least with their Robotech toyline? Why couldn't Toynami get those Alpha/Legioss Fighter moulds right even when they switched to an (allegedly) more efficient manufacturer?

I'd say no since there isn't a big demand for Robotech toys in the first place...

mainly because the fanbase isn't as large as some would assume, and Robotech isn't mainstream or well known and popular as Transformers is.

but, this is just my two-cents *shrug*

[Funkenstein]

Toynami is an official distributor of Bandai action figures and toys, so I would think that robotech is a very small part of their business.

[VF5SS]

Toynami is an official distributor of Bandai action figures and toys, so I would think that robotech is a very small part of their business.

Yeah not so much. That deal they made is very quietly dying.