HG and Robotech Debates

[HappyPenguins]

"next year" How many rollovers did we see with SC? Too many to remember. I'll set the date for the new project at December 23, 2012

Also it took them forever to find a damn distributor for the turd, and based on the finished project, its not hard to see why =X

[Seto Kaiba]

"next year" How many rollovers did we see with SC? Too many to remember. I'll set the date for the new project at December 23, 2012

I didn't exactly pay a lot of attention to the production process of Shadow Chronicles, but if I recall correctly it got pushed back at least three times for various reasons. If we use that to calibrate our expectations for whatever they're calling this latest project, then we can expect to see it in early 2013... assuming they actually manage to find a distributor who wants to carry that turd.

Also it took them forever to find a damn distributor for the turd, and based on the finished project, its not hard to see why =X

I'm not sure, but I vaguely recall someone mentioning that Harmony Gold had burned some bridges with RTSC's distributor (FUNimation), and that they were unlikely to carry future Robotech projects.

[Jasonc]

Based on all the info Tommy has hinted at, I'm pretty sure that this "new" project is actually old animation that just needs redubbing and mixing of sound. If I am correct in my research, it's probably gonna be brought with many more questions than answers.

[Keith]

If we use that to calibrate our expectations for whatever they're calling this latest project, then we can expect to see it in early 2013... assuming they actually manage to find a distributor who wants to carry that turd.

I read somewhere that they're called it "Robotech: This Project Not Yet Named."

[chrisk]

I think HG is doing anything to stay in the lime light. Not producing anything, but trying to make out how important they are to the Anime community....

You're overanalyzing.

It doesn't mean anything except ol' chubby cheeks is enjoying his newfound rockstar status, as well as being "fresh new face of Robotech", especially now that Macek is gone.

Based on all the info Tommy has hinted at, I'm pretty sure that this "new" project is actually old animation that just needs redubbing and mixing of sound. If I am correct in my research, it's probably gonna be brought with many more questions than answers.

A remastering of Sentinels? Doesn't have Sera.

A redubbing of that obscure 80's Mospeada concert video that followed the show? Makes sense.

It's connected with Tatsunoko, and its "in line with Carl Macek's vision" too. It also makes a perfect accompanying piece to the planned Carl Macek tribute documentary as well, for extra brownie points to hardcore fans.

You can't fault HG for trying to squeeze Macek's death for all its worth. If this is true then I hope they won't keep the profits all to themselves.

Edited October 15, 2010 by chrisk

[Seto Kaiba]

Based on all the info Tommy has hinted at, I'm pretty sure that this "new" project is actually old animation that just needs redubbing and mixing of sound. If I am correct in my research, it's probably gonna be brought with many more questions than answers.

Oh, really? Another Macekre? If that's true, we certainly don't need to worry about that being something that will actually lend Robotech a little much-needed credibility. That particular brand of disrespectful dubbing went out of style nearly twenty years ago, and is generally looked down on as bad practice. That's why companies like 4Kids are scorned even by the voice actors who work for them. I guess at least that way if the animation sucks, it's not Harmony Gold's fault. I wonder whose work they're pillaging this time, if that's the case.

I read somewhere that they're called it "Robotech: This Project Not Yet Named."

Drat... I was hoping for Robotech III: the Sentinels II (Ohio State: 0) or something ridiculous like that...

[Keith]

While true, the new animation in Love Live Alive is leaps and bounds above that in The Shadow Chronicles, i don't think it's what they're working on. Hell, it wouldn't even take them that long to re-dub it. But let's put the clues together shall we? An HG Robotech fanboy employee goes over to China for a "con" appearance. A new Robotech sidestory is in the works. Clearly, HG have purchased the CG renders for Astro Plan, and are working on a way to stick characters with bigger tits & six packs into them.

[Funkenstein]

While true, the new animation in Love Live Alive is leaps and bounds above that in The Shadow Chronicles, i don't think it's what they're working on. Hell, it wouldn't even take them that long to re-dub it. But let's put the clues together shall we? An HG Robotech fanboy employee goes over to China for a "con" appearance. A new Robotech sidestory is in the works. Clearly, HG have purchased the CG renders for Astro Plan, and are working on a way to stick characters with bigger tits & six packs into them.

If Astroplan gets licensed , I will dance naked (in my home). This will vindicate all my rantings.

[Keith]

Like I said, I don't think it would be so much a licensing of Astro Plan, but more of a licensing of the CG models used in Astro Plan, with Tommy Yune's muscle bound freaks mixed in.

[Jasonc]

While true, the new animation in Love Live Alive is leaps and bounds above that in The Shadow Chronicles, i don't think it's what they're working on. Hell, it wouldn't even take them that long to re-dub it. But let's put the clues together shall we? An HG Robotech fanboy employee goes over to China for a "con" appearance. A new Robotech sidestory is in the works. Clearly, HG have purchased the CG renders for Astro Plan, and are working on a way to stick characters with bigger tits & six packs into them.

I'm pretty sure it is Love Live Alive. I think everyone is coming to that conclusion, and based on what Tommy has hinted at in past, I think they're gonna package that and Carl's documentary together. I think that's he was talking about when he mentioned it being "movie length". Also, in the first announcements of this animated project, they specifically said (summed up) that even though they were waiting on WB and had obligations to them, Macek said that there are other venues and ways to get Robotech out. I wouldn't necessarily call that a "vision", but more of a logical idea. It went from that, to having this whole new animated project something that Carl pretty much created in a vision. Talk about inflating the facts. I think they're using that, so that if it pans, it doesn't look badly on the people who's idea this really is. I think the only thing that would generate less of a disrespect for HG, is if they use some of the proceeds of the productions to go to a good charity, and have the original Love Live Alive attached with the reworked version.

[Einherjar]

So which would be the bigger selling point for this theoretical release, "Love Live Alive" or what's pretty much a "Making of/History of" featurette?

[Dynaman]

So which would be the bigger selling point for this theoretical release, "Love Live Alive" or what's pretty much a "Making of/History of" featurette?

Love Live Alive, unlike MinMei's VA the guy that did Lancer CAN actually sing.

[Freiflug88]

I'm pretty sure it is Love Live Alive. I think everyone is coming to that conclusion, and based on what Tommy has hinted at in past, I think they're gonna package that and Carl's documentary together. I think that's he was talking about when he mentioned it being "movie length". Also, in the first announcements of this animated project, they specifically said (summed up) that even though they were waiting on WB and had obligations to them, Macek said that there are other venues and ways to get Robotech out. I wouldn't necessarily call that a "vision", but more of a logical idea. It went from that, to having this whole new animated project something that Carl pretty much created in a vision.

Maybe its a re-edited version of Robotech The Movie that follows Macek's "vision" of splicing SDF Macross footage into Megazone 23 Part 1 Footage after Harmony Gold couldn't acquire Macross DYRL. Then again for all we know though Harmony Gold and Tatsunko could have acquired the international distribution rights to DYRL allowing it to be re-dubbed as a Robotech movie.

[Keith]

There's really no purpose to them doing Love Live Alive at this point. What's new there doesn't gel well with Shadow Chronicles at all.

[Dynaman]

There's really no purpose to them doing Love Live Alive at this point. What's new there doesn't gel well with Shadow Chronicles at all.

So - what is one more Retcon the the RT universe?

[Jasonc]

There's really no purpose to them doing Love Live Alive at this point. What's new there doesn't gel well with Shadow Chronicles at all.

They have said countless times that it doesn't follow Shadow Chronicles at all, more of a "side story". I'll be severely disappointed when it is announced that it's Love Live Alive. Again, my only solice will be if they attach the original to it, so that at least we get that on DVD or something, and generate part of the proceeds to a charity, since afterall, they are doing the documentary on Carl's life and all. Capitalizing on someone's death is really not cool. That's how I see it.

[Keith]

They have said countless times that it doesn't follow Shadow Chronicles at all, more of a "side story". I'll be severely disappointed when it is announced that it's Love Live Alive. Again, my only solice will be if they attach the original to it, so that at least we get that on DVD or something, and generate part of the proceeds to a charity, since afterall, they are doing the documentary on Carl's life and all. Capitalizing on someone's death is really not cool. That's how I see it.

Side Story means it's not a direct follow up to, not a complete contradiction of. Don't get me wrong, I love "Love Live Alive", it just doesn't work with their current wonky canon of completely retconing the end of Mospeada.

[Jasonc]

Side Story means it's not a direct follow up to, not a complete contradiction of. Don't get me wrong, I love "Love Live Alive", it just doesn't work with their current wonky canon of completely retconing the end of Mospeada.

At this point, they could mean anything by side story. HG seems to be under the impression that any definition of anything can change to fit their will (remember the term hiatus?). They could butcher up Love Live Alive to death to fit anything they want. Don't get me wrong either. I know there are several here that don't wanna see that happen, but I've heard and seen a bit too much, and unless they change things base on people finding out certain things, it is going to be this obscure anime.

I do like the show as well, but we'll see what they do with it. It can either be a decent thing, or one hellofa disaster waiting to happen. I'm still not sold on them using this as a Robotech side story, but then again, I think only the original stuff that came from back when is the only stuff that HG might be able to have any success with. For them, it's a double edge sword for them. It provides short lived success, but also proves yet again that their current staff lacks the skill or fortitude to write anything that can stand on its own. Steve Yun once asked me how I'd feel if people criticized my work and called it stupid or bad. Well, at least I put my all into my own stuff, and at least it is "my" stuff, if you can call it that. Using Love Live Alive, what excuse can they use for that? Oh yeah, it's "Carl's Vision".

[Einherjar]

People should just torrent Love Live Alive and save themselves the anguish. It's the only dignified way to end this trainwreck besides the novels, even if it makes no sense in whatever context canon is anymore and has no Rick Hunter.

[Smegalot]

I would say HG has just run out of idea's, and this whole licensing issue happened when new Macross products were being issued.

They wanted a piece of the pie. And for them to create anything new. i don't think they would get the backing. From what I am hearing in this forum. Is that they would have trouble getting a distributor to bring it out to the general populace. And it won't actually be original. And today Anime crowd want original works, no another re-cut and re voiced and soundtracked anime. Like the original Robotech was, and other older series that were done around the 80'S.

that's mjy 2cents worth anyway

[HappyPenguins]

And today Anime crowd want original works, no another re-cut and re voiced and soundtracked anime. Like the original Robotech was, and other older series that were done around the 80'S.

The anime crowd also prefers the original works in Japanese right? However Robotech can be perceived as an anime because of the three series used to make it, but that's about it. Robotech to me has always been an american story and it would be better if a new series were done in an american style of art. I never understood why it has to be anime in the first place, and its obvious that RT continuing itself as an anime is a big joke and would do better and stand out more if it would ditch the whole "anime" style. Originality and good story telling is the key to RT's future success, but nor HG or Tommy Baffoon seem to get that.

[Gubaba]

The anime crowd also prefers the original works in Japanese right? However Robotech can be perceived as an anime because of the three series used to make it, but that's about it. Robotech to me has always been an american story and it would be better if a new series were done in an american style of art. I never understood why it has to be anime in the first place, and its obvious that RT continuing itself as an anime is a big joke and would do better and stand out more if it would ditch the whole "anime" style.

I *highly* disagree. If I sponsor a dub of, say, Full House into Vietnamese, that doesn't make it a Vietnamese show, no matter what I do to alter the plot.

Now, HG doesn't necessarily have to stick to that style, but, like it or not, Robotech is as American and Godzilla, kung-fu movies, and telenovelas.

Originality and good story telling is the key to RT's future success, but nor HG or Tommy Baffoon seem to get that.

"Originality" has never been part of Robotech. Why start now?

[Smegalot]

I agree, about them not getting that it is has to be original. And I agree. It should be an american series, and not an anime one. I guess they want to keep the feel of the original series with the anime. But it is time for them to move on. Look at Speed racer. The only thing in common with the original series is the name, the animation is completely different. (They made a CGI series about a year ago.)

But I think HG can only see dollars with the Macross License. All it toys that have sold well are mainly Macross. The Mosepeda ones are good. But are always in stock on there home page.

But Macross is the one that they know is popular. I can understand why they have not released any more of the series internationally, because HG want the royalties, or the claim that it is theirs.

And to the original creators that would be insulting. I know that I would find it that way. Do all that hard work, to hear someone way. Sorry but that's ours. I have had it done to me at work quite recently. After that I don't really want to share. And Bandai/BW know that Macross is doing well without it having to be delivered overseas. the internet changed all that and there are heaps of subs out there, and it has a huge fan base internationally. Borders are gone and the retailer around the world that have Macross goods have not been stopped from selling anything with Macross on it. And the stuff I have ordered from overseas hasn't been stopped. Because it wasn't distributed by HG.

If HG really want to stop the distribution of Macross around the world they have failed. They should just concentrate on new works of there own instead of trying to hold onto the old.

I recently met some Robotech fans that still say all the Macross sequals can be written into the Robotech Saga. And I found it quite frustrating in the debate, as they did not want to listen to it.. The SC made sure that nothing could be added and realistically they can't as the stories have nothing in common anymore. Other then that Carl Maleck used Macross as the basis for Robotech. It was good at the time and it introduced me to Anime. I learned About Macross in the late 90's and prefered the original story. Thanks to the internet. I learned about this.

that's my additional 2 cents worth. More posts then I normally do.

[Moly_Sigang]

"Originality" has never been part of Robotech. Why start now?

Apparently, HG has their own definition of 'originality', aka reusing old stuff over and over or alternatively, taking credit for other people's work.

[terry the lone wolf]

Apparently, HG has their own definition of 'originality', aka reusing old stuff over and over or alternatively, taking credit for other people's work.

Just like World Events, Voyager Entertainment, etc, etc.......

[chrisk]

Steve Yun once asked me how I'd feel if people criticized my work and called it stupid or bad.

Did you tell to find another job? Please tell me you did.

Apparently, HG has their own definition of 'originality', aka reusing old stuff over and over or alternatively, taking credit for other people's work.

Pfft. Originality.

For the benefit of the casual viewers of this thread, the following Youtube links are for MOSPEADA: LOVE LIVE ALIVE.

Mospeada Love Live Alive

PART1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn78tdcPZx8

PART2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSRsPGNUi1o&feature=related

PART3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDQEk9dkH6M&feature=related

PART4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EydGZpEG704&feature=related

PART5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgJXtE3jKb8&feature=related

PART6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnvAwZreDYI&feature=related

PART7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXiRs_0dt0Y&feature=related

PART8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2L4slpa1Nc&feature=related

The infamous loli scene:

Possible "enhancements" by Harmony Gold:

Spliced in Macross / Southern Cross footage?

New songs sung by Michael Bradley / singing voice of Lancer Dancer?

Spliced images of Carl Macek???

Any guess as to the new name?

Robotech: Love Live Alive and more?

Robotech: BOMBAAAA?

Robotech: 25th Year of Milking the Franchise?

If HG really want to stop the distribution of Macross around the world they have failed. They should just concentrate on new works of there own instead of trying to hold onto the old.

I believe Harmony Gold employs a full-time new age guru, telling the staff... "If you hold out long enough the Japanese will surrender their rights to you..."

Edited October 17, 2010 by chrisk

[Tom Bateman]

While MACROSS and ROBOTECH both share the same basic elements of the first 36-episode television series, that should be ALL that they share.

Both shows' stories diverge from each other, and that is how it should be. Hikaru Ichijo is NOT Rick Hunter and vice versa. I consider the stories and characters of each show to be completely separated from the other. Just because I like both ROBOTECH and MACROSS, that doesn't mean I think they should be mixed together.

I am abhorred at the mere idea of incorporating ANY of the MACROSS sequels into ROBOTECH. That notion makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Anyone even suggesting that should have their head examined.

[areaseven]

I am abhorred at the mere idea of incorporating ANY of the MACROSS sequels into ROBOTECH. That notion makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Anyone even suggesting that should have their head examined.

That would happen to be the majority of the RT fandom.

[Einherjar]

I am abhorred at the mere idea of incorporating ANY of the MACROSS sequels into ROBOTECH. That notion makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Anyone even suggesting that should have their head examined.

I don't know, when things get desperate enough people's attitudes about such divisions can change very quickly. And not just in the minds of fans. I believe when it gets really bad, companies/franchises will do what they can to stay alive. Follow the money if you will.

... oh, and I thought Tommy Yune and co. (if there really is a co.) was trying to do that already in subtle (or not) ways anyway.

EDIT: My mistake, he and others were making it more like the original material or something years ago with re-redits and stuff. But Shadow Chronicles and the possibilities in the continuing story could be just broad strokes away from going towards this.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Einherjar

[Keith]

While MACROSS and ROBOTECH both share the same basic elements of the first 36-episode television series, that should be ALL that they share.

Both shows' stories diverge from each other, and that is how it should be. Hikaru Ichijo is NOT Rick Hunter and vice versa. I consider the stories and characters of each show to be completely separated from the other. Just because I like both ROBOTECH and MACROSS, that doesn't mean I think they should be mixed together.

I am abhorred at the mere idea of incorporating ANY of the MACROSS sequels into ROBOTECH. That notion makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Anyone even suggesting that should have their head examined.

Ok, I'll be honest here. The real reason why I actually purchase things like "The Sentinels" & "Shadow Chronicles" is because I want to see HG branch Robotech into a new original content direction. I actually support that, as a Macross fan, because I believe that if the HG staff are able to pull their heads out of their asses, they'd be able to both give their fanbase something to be a fan of, and finally be able to stop trying to smother the Macross license. Unfortunately, every step forwards they take, is inexplicably met with a blowback significantly futher away from their starting point. Will they be able to change before going under?

Just like World Events, Voyager Entertainment, etc, etc.......

Actually, both World Events & Voyager managed to do something that HG inexplicably fails at. Support the original license without trying to smother it. Go take a look at Voyager Ent's page, what will you find? A ton of news on the recent animated & live action Yamato movies. Does HG promote any of the recent Macross Projects? Of course not, because they feel entirely threatened by them.

Back to LLA though. I just don't see how HG can use it. Aside from the various canon discrepencies, there's no way they can change the fact that Aisha's tits are significantly smaller than Ariels

Edited October 17, 2010 by Keith

[Keith]

Did you tell to find another job? Please tell me you did.

Pfft. Originality.

For the benefit of the casual viewers of this thread, the following Youtube links are for MOSPEADA: LOVE LIVE ALIVE.

Mospeada Love Live Alive

PART1 http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Fn78tdcPZx8

PART2 http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

PART3 http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

PART4 http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

PART5 http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

PART6 http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

PART7 http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

PART8 http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

The infamous loli scene:

Possible "enhancements" by Harmony Gold:

Spliced in Macross / Southern Cross footage?

New songs sung by Michael Bradley / singing voice of Lancer Dancer?

Spliced images of Carl Macek???

Any guess as to the new name?

Robotech: Love Live Alive and more?

Robotech: BOMBAAAA?

Robotech: 25th Year of Milking the Franchise?

I believe Harmony Gold employs a full-time new age guru, telling the staff... "If you hold out long enough the Japanese will surrender their rights to you..."

What idiot uploaded those clips? The playback, at least on the audio, is too slow. Very bizarre. It's been a while since I've watched LLA though. I almost forgot how hilarious Jim was, they even gave him the absolutely most guilty expression on his face as Yellow's leaving In the apocolypse, there's no such thing as lolicon lol

Edited October 17, 2010 by Keith

[Seto Kaiba]

While MACROSS and ROBOTECH both share the same basic elements of the first 36-episode television series, that should be ALL that they share.

Ah... if only things were that simple.

Unfortunately, thanks to the profound laziness of the Harmony Gold "creative team" and the work ethic of a few extremely resourceful plagiarists in the Robotech fanbase, things are a good deal more complicated than that. It sort of makes sense for them to use specs from the original show, albeit slightly modified, for Robotech. Still, the post-2001 "creative team" at Harmony Gold seems to find it a lot easier to continue to "borrow" from the setting and continuity of Macross instead of coming up with their own material. The comic miniseries Robotech: From the Stars is just a teaspoon-shallow knockoff of Macross Zero that borrows events from the year 2005 in the Macross continuity. The overwhelming majority of Robotech fan-sites "borrow" from one or more Macross shows to fill out the anemic post-Macross Saga Robotech continuity. The ongoing efforts of Harmony Gold and the robotech.com volunteer moderators to portray Macross as something that has no importance or popularity aside from its role as part of Robotech doesn't help in this regard, since it just encourages them to do things like this.

I am abhorred at the mere idea of incorporating ANY of the MACROSS sequels into ROBOTECH. That notion makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Anyone even suggesting that should have their head examined.

Um... Tom? You do realize that you've just classified one of the iconic traits of the modern Robotech fan as some kind of mental illness, right?

[Keith]

Um... Tom? You do realize that you've just classified one of the iconic traits of the modern Robotech fan as some kind of mental illness, right?

You mean it's not? Damn, I got that SDF! shot for nothing!

[anime52k8]

Oh god that's classy.

Edited October 17, 2010 by anime52k8

[Tom Bateman]

That would happen to be the majority of the RT fandom.

I would disagree with that. Most RT fans are not aware of other Macross series. If any were to make that comment, I would bet good money that they had not actually watched a Macross sequel. If they had seen it, it would have been immediately apparent that Macross sequels and Robotech would be like oil mixing with water.

Take for instance MACROSS ZERO, on the surface, the idea of seeing Roy Fokker again is pretty exciting, but the story wouldn't make sense in the Robotech universe, no matter how you slice it. A square peg fitting into a round hole.

Robotech should follow its own path and do its own story. Say what you will about The Sentinels, but at least that was an attempt to go down its own road.

Ah... if only things were that simple.

Unfortunately, thanks to the profound laziness of the Harmony Gold "creative team" and the work ethic of a few extremely resourceful plagiarists in the Robotech fanbase, things are a good deal more complicated than that. It sort of makes sense for them to use specs from the original show, albeit slightly modified, for Robotech. Still, the post-2001 "creative team" at Harmony Gold seems to find it a lot easier to continue to "borrow" from the setting and continuity of Macross instead of coming up with their own material. The comic miniseries Robotech: From the Stars is just a teaspoon-shallow knockoff of Macross Zero that borrows events from the year 2005 in the Macross continuity. The overwhelming majority of Robotech fan-sites "borrow" from one or more Macross shows to fill out the anemic post-Macross Saga Robotech continuity. The ongoing efforts of Harmony Gold and the robotech.com volunteer moderators to portray Macross as something that has no importance or popularity aside from its role as part of Robotech doesn't help in this regard, since it just encourages them to do things like this.

Other than being set before the first 36 episodes, there is virtually nothing the "From the Stars" comic has in common with Macross Zero. As someone who contributed some story elements to FtS, I can assure you that it was important to avoid Macross Zero, which wasn't hard to do.

Using tech specs of mecha that relate to the Macross Saga (i.e. DYRL variations) is not what I would call a serious (or even non-serious) campaign to bring Macross sequels over as pseudo-sequel of Robotech.

Um... Tom? You do realize that you've just classified one of the iconic traits of the modern Robotech fan as some kind of mental illness, right?

I don't agree with this broad characterization, I've never encountered a single RT fan who seriously advocated incorporating Macross sequels into Robotech, certainly not anyone who had actually watched them. It might come up as a passing comment, but the notion is quickly dismissed as any RT fan that takes a serious look at the Macross sequels would quickly realize their incompatibility. The response would be "Oh, you're right. What was I thinking?"

Back to LLA though. I just don't see how HG can use it. Aside from the various canon discrepencies, there's no way they can change the fact that Aisha's tits are significantly smaller than Ariels

Touché, sir. Touché

Edited October 17, 2010 by Tom Bateman