HG and Robotech Debates

[Gubaba]

So, you're basically asking me to rephrase my objections to your behavior in such a way that it feels less like I'm telling you off? No, you can just cope with it as-is. Butch up and read it, buttercup.

Oh, I get it now. You think the tripe you posted above is actually worth responding to. How adorable.

[taksraven]

Seriously dudes. Over a troll? This is like watching my parents fight and its breaking my heart. *sob*

So lets make nice like the monkeys....

Edited September 13, 2010 by taksraven

[Dynaman]

Okay... granted, the ADV Films dub of Super Dimension Fortress Macross is probably some of the worst work. It does, however, retain the great virtue of being free via Hulu so he can at least sample it while he's waiting, as the DVDs are backordered or unavailable at most stores.

The largest problem with that dub though, is that if I had to choose between it and "The Macross Saga" part of Robotech, I'd choose Robotech. The VA work in that is an atrocity. The subtitled version of SDFM is well worth the money.

[Zor Primus]

This is the version I own...not sure if its the same you guys are talking about. The dubs are horrible...but I rarely watch my anime dubbed anyway. imo a true otaku refrains from dubs.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Zor Primus

[Wanzerfan]

This is the version I own...not sure if its the same you guys are talking about. The dubs are horrible...but I rarely watch my anime dubbed anyway. imo a true otaku refrains from dubs.

The dubs of the orginal Macross I saw at Games Plus were used ADV DVDs. I didn't have the money at the time to get them, though (besides, they didn't have all the disks at the store I saw them).

[azrael]

Ya know...if some of you people would use the "Ignore user" function, you'll probably have less of a headache with some people here.

My Settings->Profile->Manage Ignored Users

[Seto Kaiba]

Oh, I get it now. You think the tripe you posted above is actually worth responding to. How adorable.

Wow... you really are takin' a leaf out of Bendo's book, aren't you? If you don't like what a person is saying, you leap to attack the person directly and act as though anything you say or do is above reproach. I guess in all the time you've spent on RobotechX getting chummy with MEMO, his bad habits have started to rub off on you. This makes the content of the private message you sent me all the more ironic, since I seem to be the only one here who's willing to say that it's not OK to attack someone because they say things you don't agree with.

If you really need it spelled out for you this bluntly, fine. The point I am laboriously tilting at, and which you are arrogantly trying to ignore, is that you and taksraven are attacking another member for no reason other than that he's ignorant. You've already come out and personally said that you don't care what his thoughts are on anything because you've decided his opinions must be asinine. You've consistently harassed him, belittled him, and labeled him a "troll" because he makes more mistakes than the average member. That isn't just thoroughly inconsistent with what we profess to do here as far as trying to stay out of the cycle of mutual hostility between Robotech and Macross fans... it's a violation of the MacrossWorld Rules & Guidelines section 1.4, something that azrael seems to have conveniently forgotten, as he's indulged in flaming Wanzerfan himself.

Furthermore, as I've already explained on more than one occasion, I find it frankly unfair of you to insist that we give MEMO a chance to not act like a bellend when you insisted that you would not give such a chance to Pizza the Hutt, who, unlike MEMO, actually apologized for his asinine behavior and made an effort to turn over a new leaf. You treated the kid with nothing but suspicion and hostility, and that makes us and MacrossWorld look like exactly the sort of villains the Robotech lunatic fringe wants us to be.

Do you understand now?

Seriously dudes. Over a troll? This is like watching my parents fight and its breaking my heart. *sob*

Has it ever occurred to you that what you're doing here is precisely the same thing that the militant members of the Robotech lunatic fringe do whenever they don't like what someone has to say? You won't hear me deny that Wanzerfan is ignorant as the day is long, but he's no troll. He's just an opinionated loudmouth who could do with a hand in getting his facts straight.

Instead of acting like Pizza the Hutt used to when MEMO was egging him on, why don't you try talking to him and helping him get his facts straight?

Did you notice that when I made an effort to talk to him and get to the bottom of his misunderstanding, he had no problems explaining and we quickly corrected and remedied the problem. By attacking him, all you accomplish is putting him on the defensive and making him less inclined to accept corrections from you in the future.

Seriously, between you and Gubaba I feel like I've been cast in the role of a disappointed parent scolding two belligerent children for bullying other kids on the playground.

The largest problem with that dub though, is that if I had to choose between it and "The Macross Saga" part of Robotech, I'd choose Robotech. The VA work in that is an atrocity. The subtitled version of SDFM is well worth the money.

You do realize you can just change the audio selector to "Japanese" on the ADV DVDs and watch it with subs instead, right? The AnimEigo edition's gonna be hard to find because it's been out of print for a while now.

Ya know...if some of you people would use the "Ignore user" function, you'll probably have less of a headache with some people here.

My Settings->Profile->Manage Ignored Users

Y'know... as I said above, that's not really going to solve the issue. It's just going to make us look like exactly the sort of judgmental, exclusionary apefaces the Robotech die-hards spend so much time telling people we are. Of course, since you've already given carte blanche to people flaming and flame-baiting Wanzerfan in a previous post, I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

[Jasonc]

Ya know...if some of you people would use the "Ignore user" function, you'll probably have less of a headache with some people here.

My Settings->Profile->Manage Ignored Users

QFT!!!

On the idea that this drama is a big show of hypocrity, I disagree on that. I think many times people have said that if fact checking and just a little research were done on Wnzerfan's post, the idea of getting after him would disappear. That was met with more misrepresented factual posts. It doesn't seem like people are being unwilling to tolerate him, but people open themselves up to certain remarks when they ignore the suggestions of the general consensus. I'll leave it at that, as I've read most of this, but am more of an outside observer until recently.

[Dynaman]

You do realize you can just change the audio selector to "Japanese" on the ADV DVDs and watch it with subs instead, right? The AnimEigo edition's gonna be hard to find because it's been out of print for a while now.

I was refering to watching it on Hulu or Youtube (wherever it may be available as a stream). Unless something has changed you can't tell it to play the subbed version rather then the dubbed one.

Personally, I have the Animeigo version and it was not that hard (easy actually) to purchase through amazon. Not sure if there are copies available now though.

[Zor Primus]

Personally, I have the Animeigo version and it was not that hard (easy actually) to purchase through amazon. Not sure if there are copies available now though.

I don't think there are anymore...looked the other day when a buddy of mine from work wanted to get it.

As far as ignorance goes, I'm about as smart as a flea when it comes to most of the stuff you guys go back and forth with on this thread. Personally its very enlightening to see so much information.

I was a fan of Robotech first and foremost, still am...however a zealot never. Even before I actually got to see the original Macross I found it rather stupid to bash it. Now after having watching the original there is room to chuckle a bit at Robotech, but saying it plain out sucks...I can't. Now what does suck is what has happened in the years since. Shadow Chronicles did give me that "fix" but it didn't fulfill what as a fan I wanted. I'm one of the few who enjoyed the novels and comics, and yes Southern Cross was my fave

All the Macross sequals were great imo. Well M7 not so much and therein lies the difference in the franchises for me. Macross fans can actually debate about sequals, stories, universe, characters beyond the original series. Robotech fans pass their time all these years either thrashing/defending the novels and comics, eliminating the only real "sequals" made apart from the Shadow Chronicles or taking apart frame by frame, line by line the original 85 eps. That got old and worn out after a while.

Now I won't claim to be the end all know all of the Macross universe. I'm a novice at best as I haven't seen the original+sequals as many times as Robotech throughout the years, but I'm learning. And there is much to learn! I do think that HG has done a poor job with the franchise. Its a shame they own the Macross trademark, creatively they have been outmatched and outperformed over and over again...and that pattern will probably remain the same.

[Dynaman]

I don't think there are anymore...looked the other day when a buddy of mine from work wanted to get it.

Just saw box sets 1-3 on amazon, they are used, but they are there.

[anime52k8]

I don't think there are anymore...looked the other day when a buddy of mine from work wanted to get it.

check my post one page back, you can get a Animeigo set for about $120. Now if you want new sealed copy that's going to be difficult and expensive to find, but if you're willing to get a used copy they're still readily available and not Hugely expensive.

That said, I actually kind of like the ADV boxed set. The dub sucks but you can just watch it with subs, and the actual video and audio quality is fine.

what I like about the ADV release though is the box art. the series box and all of the DVD cases use really nice original illustrations from Artmic and Studio Nue.

Edited September 13, 2010 by anime52k8

[Seto Kaiba]

On the idea that this drama is a big show of hypocrity, I disagree on that. I think many times people have said that if fact checking and just a little research were done on Wnzerfan's post, the idea of getting after him would disappear. That was met with more misrepresented factual posts.

Really... I disagree, though your response was infinitely more mature than Gubaba's, and I do appreciate that.

The problem here is, I think, in the approach they take when they attempt to correct Wanzerfan after he posts something incorrect. So far, the general response has basically been variations on "You're an idiot, you have no clue what you're talking about, and you need to shut up and stop posting". That's not going to do anything but temporarily discourage Wanzerfan from posting in that thread, and make him less likely to accept corrections or help from that person in the future. Instead, it would be a lot more helpful, productive, and mature to point out to him that he's made an error, offer a correction, and then perhaps point him in the direction of resources that he can use to refresh his knowledge and/or acquire fresh perspective on the topic... this reducing the chances that he'll make a similar error in the future. That approach has worked pretty damn well for me in the past. It's probably why people on Robotech.com still refer fans with tough questions to me despite my having received a ban nearly a year ago... they know that I'll politely and thoroughly answer those tough questions and clear up any misunderstandings they might have without calling them names or accusing them of being a troll for having gotten something wrong.

If, as we profess, we really do want to mend fences with the Robotech crowd and discourage the sort of hostility that we know all too well, it's counterproductive to treat people the way Wanzerfan is being treated here.

It doesn't seem like people are being unwilling to tolerate him, but people open themselves up to certain remarks when they ignore the suggestions of the general consensus. I'll leave it at that, as I've read most of this, but am more of an outside observer until recently.

Y'know what... I'd rather be hated for being the guy who said it wasn't okay to attack someone for being a bit ignorant than be part of the crowd and join in condemning them as a troll. This is really a matter of simple logic. If you help them, they will learn. If you're a jerk to them, all they'll learn is that you're a jerk.

I was refering to watching it on Hulu or Youtube (wherever it may be available as a stream). Unless something has changed you can't tell it to play the subbed version rather then the dubbed one.

Y'know... I haven't actually checked. I'll log into my Hulu acct. and find out later.

Personally, I have the Animeigo version and it was not that hard (easy actually) to purchase through amazon. Not sure if there are copies available now though.

Due to simple curiosity, I actually have both the remastered Animeigo version and the ADV Films dub version on DVD. I consider the Animeigo version superior in most (if not all) regards, though the more commonly available ADV dub version isn't bad... at least not while you're watching it subbed.

Robotech fans pass their time all these years either thrashing/defending the novels and comics, eliminating the only real "sequals" made apart from the Shadow Chronicles or taking apart frame by frame, line by line the original 85 eps. That got old and worn out after a while.

Yeah... that's as accurate and succinct a summary as I've ever seen. The old novels and comics aren't as big a subject of controversy as they were back before '01, but they're still looked down on... and the tragedy is, as you've said, that doing so doesn't leave them with a lot to talk about these days. Ever since Tommy and Kevin came out and said that none of the old stuff is valid Robotech anymore, the fanbase's attitude towards the old stuff is generally dismissive. I get the feeling the reason they fall back on "witch hunts" as often as they do is that it helps alleviate the boredom by finding a target to vent the fanbase's frustration on.

[taksraven]

1

Edited September 14, 2010 by taksraven

[Gubaba]

I stand by what I said earlier. After you drop the hysterics, Seto, we can talk. Not before.

[Renato]

OK, Wanzerfanboys, sorry to interrupt. I just wanted to say that Yui1107's is very interesting and I want to post a translation but since I'm currently out of town it will probably have to be sometime next week or so.

[Seto Kaiba]

I just wanted to say that Yui1107's is very interesting and I want to post a translation but since I'm currently out of town it will probably have to be sometime next week or so.

Eh... really? Just from what I read on yui1107's blog and website, the impression I got was that this was a bog standard case of a Robotech fan going off half-cocked after getting a mistaken or incomplete picture of the whole legal fracas between Big West and Tatsunoko over the original Macross series. IIRC, she recently mentioned she was aware that she'd gotten some bad information from someone, but wouldn't say who or where...

[Keith]

The AnimEigo set is superior in almost every regard. It has progressive video (ADV's release is interlaced for some reason), and a superior Japanese audio mix (AnimEigo kept their good stuff since they got the audio masters outside of HG's license..), ADV was stuck using a completely un-remastered degraded track for their release.

The only area's where ADV's release shines, are disc/box art, and translation. AnimEigo slipped in a couple pop culture references, which drags their subs down a notch for me.

[Einherjar]

Remember a couple of pages ago when I said I saw the the first volume of the ADV Films version in a Dollar Store? What a waste.

[Jasonc]

OK, Wanzerfanboys, sorry to interrupt. I just wanted to say that Yui1107's is very interesting and I want to post a translation but since I'm currently out of town it will probably have to be sometime next week or so.

Thank you,,,hopefully some understanding to the multiple responses we've gotten. And thanks for putting this topic back on the rails.

Remember a couple of pages ago when I said I saw the the first volume of the ADV Films version in a Dollar Store? What a waste.

I bought that ADV set, just to preserve my Animeigo set. The only problem I have with the Animeigo set is the thin DVDs they used. There were reports of cracking in the inner spindle part of the discs.

[Keith]

I bought that ADV set, just to preserve my Animeigo set. The only problem I have with the Animeigo set is the thin DVDs they used. There were reports of cracking in the inner spindle part of the discs.

Almost like they knew the media wouldn't hold up for some reason, AnimEigo neglected to include any copy protection on their DVD's. I take this as a "feel free to back up your disc's" from AnimEigo.

[taksraven]

Almost like they knew the media wouldn't hold up for some reason, AnimEigo neglected to include any copy protection on their DVD's. I take this as a "feel free to back up your disc's" from AnimEigo.

Is copy protection still very expensive though??

Taksraven

[Seto Kaiba]

Is copy protection still very expensive though??

Depends... the more comprehensive the copy protection's defenses, the more expensive it gets on a per-license basis. On the whole, if you don't expect to move hundreds of thousands of units then it's probably going to be a waste of money to use anything more than the most basic on-disc copy protection. Since anime is a niche market here in the states, it's not surprising that a small-ish company like Animeigo wouldn't even bother with the basic copy protection. Either they felt the potentially preventable losses due to piracy wouldn't be significant enough to make using even a basic copy protection suite advantageous, or they're part of that smarter crowd that knows copy protection isn't going to stop a determined pirate and concluded it was a waste of money either way.

Edited September 15, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[chrisk]

On a lighter note, I finally saw the trade paperback of "Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles" on bookshelves, and it is every bit as amateurish as I feared it would be.

The cover is the usual Photoshop chop-job of Tommy Yune's overused Shadow Chronicles promo illustration. The "enhancements" to the original comic are unremarkable - harsher glow effects (around ship boosters, lasers, invid eyes) were added all throughout the comic. On one hand, if you happen to be just another uninformed Robotech fanboy, then you should be jumping with joy at how it mimics the glowly look of some Japanese OVA. For the rest of us it just looks garish and cheap.

They thinned out the Waltrip brothers atrocious inking in the original comic run of issues #4 and part of #5, but boy does their style still look cheesy. There are other cosmetic additions to the comic like different holographic effects, hair color changes, but honestly, who cares if the story sucks?

Well, it does. It's convoluted, and to address this they put the usual timeline, and all that crap that you can see for free from the internet. Oh, and I think there was a Robotech 3000 feature. Because recycling content is value for your money!

The most interesting failure in terms so quality is that two pages of the comic are shockingly low-res pixel-fests. Maybe this was because this is some kind of cheaply made "Asia-Pacific" version, but I doubt it.

The only real "bonus" is an additional two page epilogue drawn, and most likely written by Tommy Yune to somehow tie in the comic to the Shadow Chronicles and the orignal cartoon series - Moments after the Neutron S Missile blows in Rick Hunter's face in some far out part of the galaxy, we cut to half of the orignal cast of the New Generation cartoon sleeping in a tent - Ariel, Lunk and Mint. Ariel (who somehow gained 20 pounds last I saw her) suddenly wakes up screaming and sweating profusely...

This sort of begs the question - Was the events of the comics just a horrible nightmare? Or better yet, was it canon? Aha! This should keep the Robotech boards debating!! Good ol' Tommy.

All-in-all, a curious failure. 2/5

P.S.

I didn't buy the comic, I just flipped through it in a bookstore. God knows I've already wasted too much money on this crap.

[Seto Kaiba]

On a lighter note, I finally saw the trade paperback of "Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles" on bookshelves, and it is every bit as amateurish as I feared it would be.

Well, at least you knew what you were getting yourself into. It probably comes as a surprise to nobody that the trade paperback edition of Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles was an amateurish mess.

Well, it does. It's convoluted, and to address this they put the usual timeline, and all that crap that you can see for free from the internet. Oh, and I think there was a Robotech 3000 feature. Because recycling content is value for your money!

Ha... no surprises there. It was pretty much inevitable that Prelude was going to be a convoluted mess. It was Tommy's hackneyed attempt to stitch two horrible Robotech titles together to provide the illusion of continuity... the old Robotech II: the Sentinels comic books and his new Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles movie, the latter of which is little more than bad Sentinels fan-fiction anyway.

This sort of begs the question - Was the events of the comics just a horrible nightmare? Or better yet, was it canon? Aha! This should keep the Robotech boards debating!! Good ol' Tommy.

Oh, a little from column A... a little from column B. It's a nightmare all right, but only for those Robotech fans who were holding out hope that the Shadow Chronicles story arc would actually be something of quality and give the Robotech franchise some semblance of credibility. Unfortunately for them, the Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles miniseries appears to be an unambiguously canon installment in the rebooted Robotech continuity as defined by Tommy Yune.

[Keith]

Wait a minute, doesn't re-releasing Prelude potentially hurt the live action movie, since it'll set up too early of a demand, and...What was their reason for not doing Shadow Rising again?

[PetarB]

I tried reading a couple of pages of this thread, but I realise trying to follow it has made me more stupid.

A live action Robotech movie is never going to happen, sad but true. If it does happen, well, I'll eat my hat, and record the event on Youtube, just for Macrossworld!

[Seto Kaiba]

Wait a minute, doesn't re-releasing Prelude potentially hurt the live action movie, since it'll set up too early of a demand, and...What was their reason for not doing Shadow Rising again?

Um... if I recall correctly, the official reason they gave for suspending work on Robotech: Shadow Rising was they'd decided to wait until the success of the live action movie raised the franchise's profile in the hopes they would be able to get more favorable terms and more money from their investors, and thus make Robotech: Shadow Rising a higher quality product than Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles.

A live action Robotech movie is never going to happen, sad but true. If it does happen, well, I'll eat my hat, and record the event on Youtube, just for Macrossworld!

Hey, wait a minute... what part of that is sad again?

Edited September 16, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Robelwell202]

Hey, wait a minute... what part of that is sad again?

It would be a waste of a good hat...

[HappyPenguins]

Any news on the live action movie? Oh that's right its after the 15th, the final day WB and HG were to come to an agreement, but I guess that ship sailed, sank, and is now the home of a giant squid

[Zor Primus]

Any news on the live action movie? Oh that's right its after the 15th, the final day WB and HG were to come to an agreement, but I guess that ship sailed, sank, and is now the home of a giant squid

I'm even starting to doubt the interest WB really has in all this.

[Einherjar]

I think the live action phase by Hollywood is pretty much over now.

Keanu Reeves Discusses Live-Action Cowboy Bebop

[Zor Primus]

I think the live action phase by Hollywood is pretty much over now.

Keanu Reeves Discusses Live-Action Cowboy Bebop

That movie looks rather bleak...and that's with the actor talking...not a peep from anyone about RT/LAM probably means the project has been torpedoed.

[azrael]

That movie looks rather bleak...and that's with the actor talking...not a peep from anyone about RT/LAM probably means the project has been torpedoed.

Considering what Hollywood wants out of their "epic" movies....

Avatar was in the $300-million (minus actors' payment, development, marketing, blah blah blah, just straight production) ballpark. And that was just for 1 movie. I've heard it that it was in the $500-million-range and that may be the actual total cost over all those years Cameron was working at it. Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen was in the $200-million range. I think it's more along the lines that WB would rather focus on their DC Comics properties than an untested property like Robotech.

[Seto Kaiba]

It would be a waste of a good hat...

True... but it'll also be a minor economic stimulus for the hatmaking industry.

Any news on the live action movie? Oh that's right its after the 15th, the final day WB and HG were to come to an agreement, but I guess that ship sailed, sank, and is now the home of a giant squid

None whatsoever... at least, as far as I'm aware. IIRC, the last noteworthy mention of the movie was the news that they'd showed the rejected Kasdan story treatment to Sylvain White.

By the way... did we ever manage to confirm that the supposed 9/15 "drop dead" date attached to the Robotech live action movie was for real? It's not like there was ever really a chance of it being made, but it'd be nice to see if it's dead or just going to stagnate for a few years before Warner quietly drops the license.

Considering what Hollywood wants out of their "epic" movies....

Avatar was in the $300-million (minus actors' payment, development, marketing, blah blah blah, just straight production) ballpark. And that was just for 1 movie. I've heard it that it was in the $500-million-range and that may be the actual total cost over all those years Cameron was working at it. Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen was in the $200-million range. I think it's more along the lines that WB would rather focus on their DC Comics properties than an untested property like Robotech.

Frankly... calling Robotech an "untested" property is probably being a bit too kind. I would guess that they see the DC Comics properties as far safer investments since they generally don't have a track record anything like the proven track record of failure Robotech has had under Harmony Gold.