The Death of Anime??

[VFTF1]

I'll take the Sweet tinged with Sadness. Maybe if this guy is so famous and this studio is so good at international distribution, then I'll be able to find the DVD here in Poland.

But...

Is there any merchandise associated with this anime? Any cute moe figures to collecto, transforming robots or anything of the sort?

Pete

[Gubaba]

I'll take the Sweet tinged with Sadness. Maybe if this guy is so famous and this studio is so good at international distribution, then I'll be able to find the DVD here in Poland.

But...

Is there any merchandise associated with this anime? Any cute moe figures to collecto, transforming robots or anything of the sort?

Pete

You should be able to find them easily. Disney was so frightened by the competition he represented that they scooped up the rights to his stuff. Initially, they did a kind of half-assed job releasing them at first, declaring that the world didn't care. But then his film Spirited Away started winning film festivals all over the place, so they released that in the US, where it won an Oscar for Best Animated Film. They released the rest of his back catalogue soon after that.

And yeah...there are some figures and things like that...no transformable robots, but a there are non-transformable robots (from Laputa). Mostly it's smaller collectables...keychains, plush toys, gashapon...that sort of thing.

[eugimon]

Don't forget Porco Rosso. Sure they story kinda falls apart there but some beautifully animated aerial stuff

[Gubaba]

Don't forget Porco Rosso. Sure they story kinda falls apart there but some beautifully animated aerial stuff

That one (along with Princess Mononoke and Howl's Moving Castle, among others), I think of as "advanced Miyazaki," in that it's probably good to have at least a couple of his movies under your belt before you see them. Others may disagree, however...

[eugimon]

That one (along with Princess Mononoke and Howl's Moving Castle, among others), I think of as "advanced Miyazaki," in that it's probably good to have at least a couple of his movies under your belt before you see them. Others may disagree, however...

Well, in terms of production dates, Porco is closer to Kiki than Mononoke Hime. But I think Kiki marks the commercialization point for Miyazaki while Mononoke ushers in the jaded period where he stops looking at kids as innocents but rather as just another symptom of society's woes.

[Marzan]

Well, in terms of production dates, Porco is closer to Kiki than Mononoke Hime. But I think Kiki marks the commercialization point for Miyazaki while Mononoke ushers in the jaded period where he stops looking at kids as innocents but rather as just another symptom of society's woes.

Mononoke does show a more balanced view of children than some of Miyazaki's previous work that's true.

I remember watching Mononoke in a film festival (in original japanese) and being very impressed by it. It was actually the first Miyazaki film I saw. Later when I bought the dvd, I was impressed to see that the dub version included the voices of several famous Hollywood actors. I really though at the time that it would start a new trend in dubbing, but I guess I was wrong as evidenced by this thread.

[Oihan]

It was once feared that the VCR would destroy the movie industry...that the cassette recorder would kill the music/record industry...and I'm sure there was a fear that the photocopier was going to kill the magazine and book industries.

[taksraven]

It was once feared that the VCR would destroy the movie industry...that the cassette recorder would kill the music/record industry...and I'm sure there was a fear that the photocopier was going to kill the magazine and book industries.

Napster was going to bring down the record industry, then Kazaa was going to bring down both the film and recording industry, then bittorrent was going to bring everything down, blah blah blah.

When music recording originally began there would have been those who predicted the death of live performances, FFS.

Taksraven

[Ghost Train]

When music was first created, the first musician was stoned to death as they feared it would replace talking.

[Einherjar]

Adult videos did kill off Beta tapes, right?

[David Hingtgen]

Death of a format, not a genre. CD's killed cassettes, not music. VHS killed Beta, not recording shows/movies.

[areaseven]

And so, the meltdown continues. Over the past few months, there has been a legal battle between Funimation and what's left of A.D. Vision. First, Funimation sued former ADV CEO John Ledford and every entity that branched out of ADV for breach of contract. The defendants filed a counterclaim that they were not under contract with Funimation. Then, ADV sued Funimation and CEO Gen Fukunaga for what is being perceived as the monopolization of the anime industry.

Funimation Provides Statement on Lawsuit with A.D. Vision

[PetarB]

When music recording originally began there would have been those who predicted the death of live performances, FFS.

Actually that really happened. I remember reading about it a long time ago! I thought it was quite funny at the time.

Its very difficult to predict the future, as most good science fiction authors will tell you.

Edited June 19, 2012 by PetarB

[Jasonc]

And so, the meltdown continues. Over the past few months, there has been a legal battle between Funimation and what's left of A.D. Vision. First, Funimation sued former ADV CEO John Ledford and every entity that branched out of ADV for breach of contract. The defendants filed a counterclaim that they were not under contract with Funimation. Then, ADV sued Funimation and CEO Gen Fukunaga for what is being perceived as the monopolization of the anime industry.

Funimation Provides Statement on Lawsuit with A.D. Vision

Funimation is hardly a monopoly, at least not yet. I think the problem is these U.S. companies wait for a series to air in Japan, and then wait to see how well the merchandise sells. Overall, if the franchise proves profitable, they'll attempt to bring it over. During that time, over a year passes, and an army of fan subbers have had it on bittorrent sites for that time. Then by the time the companies put it out here, nobody wants to buy it, because they saw it almost a year prior.

It's a tough decision for the American companies, because from what appears, is that Japanese companies don't want Americans getting involved in their industry, i.e., getting involved with their distribution, their timing, their way of doing things. Also, as far as I know, even though Bandai USA no longer distributes anime DVDs, Bandai ent. has no qualms about it, and most companies in Japan don't base their series on overseas support, whatsoever.

So, what is an American company to do? The best solution would be to obtain the license for a series prior to airing on Japanese t.v., or ASAP, and try the simultaneous release. Afro Samurai had a simultaneous release, because it was a collaboration of both countries. Gundam Unicorn seems to be doing simultaneous release as well, but what helps is that the franchise is so large, it's almost guarnteed profit. For not so well know titles, it's a gamble for U.S. distributors, but time is not on their side in these matters. Until the U.S. companies like Funimation are willing to get the titles in much earlier, this cycle is still going to continue.

Of course, if all the U.S. companies go to doodoo, I hope the Japanese companies can realize the extra profit in putting English subs on their DVDs and Blurays.

[renegadeleader1]

Funimation is hardly a monopoly, at least not yet. I think the problem is these U.S. companies wait for a series to air in Japan, and then wait to see how well the merchandise sells. Overall, if the franchise proves profitable, they'll attempt to bring it over. During that time, over a year passes, and an army of fan subbers have had it on bittorrent sites for that time. Then by the time the companies put it out here, nobody wants to buy it, because they saw it almost a year prior.

It's a tough decision for the American companies, because from what appears, is that Japanese companies don't want Americans getting involved in their industry, i.e., getting involved with their distribution, their timing, their way of doing things. Also, as far as I know, even though Bandai USA no longer distributes anime DVDs, Bandai ent. has no qualms about it, and most companies in Japan don't base their series on overseas support, whatsoever.

So, what is an American company to do? The best solution would be to obtain the license for a series prior to airing on Japanese t.v., or ASAP, and try the simultaneous release. Afro Samurai had a simultaneous release, because it was a collaboration of both countries. Gundam Unicorn seems to be doing simultaneous release as well, but what helps is that the franchise is so large, it's almost guarnteed profit. For not so well know titles, it's a gamble for U.S. distributors, but time is not on their side in these matters. Until the U.S. companies like Funimation are willing to get the titles in much earlier, this cycle is still going to continue.

Of course, if all the U.S. companies go to doodoo, I hope the Japanese companies can realize the extra profit in putting English subs on their DVDs and Blurays.

The problem with this is a lot of Japanese companies are afraid they will lose a cut of the cash from their own domestic dvd sales by people importing the cheaper dvd's with more episodes from the states, so they do 3 things 1) refuse to let anybody license a series untill their dvd sales run their course. 2) slap a heavy licensing fee to a series to compensate for what they see as lost sales. Or 3)deliberately sabotage their own series by editing it, censoring it, and sending out workprint editions with shoddy animation because in their eyes the "baka gaijin" aren't going to notice or care leaving the original intact of their home audience. Bible Black, Papilion Rose, and Koihime Musou are some of the titles that suffered this.

There might be a 4th option of a Japanese company trying to get an American to sell a dvd with the same properties as a Japanese releise I.E. 1 or 2 episodes, little special features, and high price tag ($40-60). Its only been done a few times usually with poor results(gunbuster 2). Unicorn seems to be the exception, but people seem to be willing to pay for the qulity that show represents.

[anime52k8]

Bible Black, Papilion Rose, and Koihime Musou are some of the titles that suffered this.

dude, what is it with you and this random bringing up of porn in causal conversation. It's both amusing and a little weird.

[renegadeleader1]

dude, what is it with you and this random bringing up of porn in causal conversation. It's both amusing and a little weird.

Bible Black was mentioned because it was pretty much the first title people noticed something was wrong and wasn't the same as the original(nevermind the U.S. is actually uncensored compared to Japanese mosiac) with footage missing and things animated as they should be. Media Blasters looked into it and found out the company did it on purpose to try and deter domestic fans from importing the cheaper uncensored dvds. It led to a falling out between companies and the rest of the series almost never got released here.

[jet660]

Of course, if all the U.S. companies go to doodoo, I hope the Japanese companies can realize the extra profit in putting English subs on their DVDs and Blurays.

Here is something to consider:

Macross Blu-Ray Complete Edition

Cdjapan: 45000 Yen = $562.22 ($15.62/Episode)

Amazon Jp: 34,662 Yen = $433.28 ($12.03/Episode)

If Bandai Entertainment ever decided to release the box set with English subs, would you consider paying at this price or even higher before shipping and other import duties? That is pretty high premium for a 30 year old anime. However, some people would consider it as an investment.

Another thing I am seeing is that Bandai is putting in English subs for their new blu-ray anime (i.e. Yamato 2199) and leaving the older ones out (Original Space Battleship Yamato). If I buy one volume of Yamato 2199, I would be paying 1/4 or 1/5 of the original tv box set. That is equivalent to $25 to see one 25 minute episode of Yamato 2199. That doesn't make any sense to me. If Bandai was really savvy, they would both have English subs and affordable price points so that the general public (both domestic and international markets) can purchase them equally and fairly. Inconsistent price points is one of the factors why anime piracy is so rampant nowadays.

Don't forget anime industry itself is niche. Because of that, its fan-base is small and limited in scale compare to other entertainment industries. Anime companies seem to be stagnant in what direction it wants to take given what limited resources they have. IF Japanese companies try to use their own pricing strategies in the international market to protect their own market, they would only hurt their revenue more than help it.

Edited June 19, 2012 by jet660

[Vifam7]

Another thing I am seeing is that Bandai is putting in English subs for their new blu-ray anime (i.e. Yamato 2199) and leaving the older ones out (Original Space Battleship Yamato). If I buy one volume of Yamato 2199, I would be paying 1/4 or 1/5 of the original tv box set. That is equivalent to $25 to see one 25 minute episode of Yamato 2199. That doesn't make any sense to me. If Bandai was really savvy, they would both have English subs and affordable price points so that the general public (both domestic and international markets) can purchase them equally and fairly. Inconsistent price points is one of the factors why anime piracy is so rampant nowadays.

Anime piracy is rampant because the English speaking fanbase demographic is majorly comprised of youngsters who have little money to spend and nothing beats getting anime for free online.

Pricing something at a lower price point does not guarantee increased sales or profit. The fact is, not all anime are equal. There are reasons why Title X costs more than Title Y.

The Japanese have been doing anime for a long time, they know how to stay in business. It's the American companies that recently have had difficulty staying in business.

Yamato 2199 and Gundam Unicorn getting English subtitles was nice but don't expect it to be the norm. They'll add subtitles if and when they feel it's worth including. Not all titles are going to be worth adding English subtitles.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Vifam7

[renegadeleader1]

The high cost of dvds and blu-rays in Japan comes from the fact that the country is more rental driven than consumer retal driven. Space is at a premium, and dvds are viewed as a luxury item so if you want to buy a series expect to pay them same as a video store would from the distributor. A $40 dvd containing 2 episodes isn't a bad price when you know you can rent it 20+ times at $10 a pop.

[azrael]

Another thing I am seeing is that Bandai is putting in English subs for their new blu-ray anime (i.e. Yamato 2199) and leaving the older ones out (Original Space Battleship Yamato). If I buy one volume of Yamato 2199, I would be paying 1/4 or 1/5 of the original tv box set.

I'd be weary of using older shows as a model. Much like the US, older shows, pre-DVD collection sets, are more of an afterthought market. Eventually they come to DVD or Blu-ray but more of the funds go to cleaning up the AV due to degradation/wear-&-tear and modernizing it for current living room sets than slapping a set of subtitles. If Bandai didn't clean up SDFM for Blu-ray, it would honestly look like a pile of steaming elephant dung. No one would buy it. So having subtitles should be the least of your worries compared to the new stuff.

[BeyondTheGrave]

ANN did a 3 parts series on licensing. A B C

But you still some way to get the series seen in market X. And since the N American market is more focused about useless celebrities than say actual good programming.

[TehPW]

now ill admit im just tossing beer cans in the stew, but in the states, most folks with some disposable income get thier movies/TV/whatever from cable, Netflix and the Xbox, if not from online. I havent bought a DVD in a couple years myself. Perhaps its because as a military retiree, what interested me in my youth, holds very little importance (Macross and related aside, of course). I rarely go to the mall and im pretty sure places like SunCoast or FYI have shrinking DVD sections for anime (they are almost non-existant at BestBuy)... its all about creature habits as well as costs and marketing bull*&^%. 15 years ago, DVD's was the *&^%, but now with the ease of getting stuff via Mother Bell's telephone lines, why bother going out? The only one suffers is retail... and the country or countries... derp.

Edited June 20, 2012 by TehPW

[Freiflug88]

Netflix/Hulu/youtube/etc have lost out on a lot of customers simply cause they never offer language options.

Same thing with Cable TV networks. They never take advantage of the SAP and Caption buttons to provide subtitles and Japanese audio options to anime viewers that expect and demand dual language options.

[Einherjar]

Has everyone heard that Toonami came back on Cartoon Network about a month ago? I don't know, the format of people getting their anime is changing, but I don't think it's dead internationally yet.

New Toonami Anime Ranks #1 in Young Adult Demographics

I agree with Freiflug88, dubbed only anime on on Netflicks streaming, Hulu, and offical youtube pages have been a dealbreaker for me.

[BeyondTheGrave]

depends on the series. Some only get a sub.

[Keith]

Do you think it's a coincidence that the streaming services don't carry subbed anime (except for the studio direct sites)?

Fact is Dub fans tend to be more fairweather, and as such are the market share that keeps dropping off. There's no revenue loss by them going to streaming services, and there's probably a bit more of a pickup there. However, if sub fans stopped purchases retail, there'd be a noticable drop.

[Marzan]

Mmh. Crunchyroll's stuff is all subbed and it seems to be doing pretty good.

[Graham]

The last modern animes to attract me enough to watch them were Macross Frontier (duh!), Black Lagoon, Sky Crawlers and Gundam Unicorn. Apart from those titles, I have absolutely no interest in any modern anime, especially recent TV series.

Maybe I'm just getting too old (43) and my tastes are changing, but I just can't stomach what I've seen of modern anime. Quite happy to rewatch the 80s' classics though and anything Macross.

Graham

[Warmaker]

Availability of a show has been the main thing for me, and of course me leaning to subbed stuff.

I've had to rely on fansubs because alot of shows that I'm interested in will never have any sort of chance for an official release here in the USA. Not to mention the traditional habit of companies taking eons to even consider bringing a show over across the Pacific. Add to the fact that the only anime DVDs I was seeing for a long time on shelves was an endless stockpile of Dragonball Z. The selection has gotten better in the last year or two, but still, it's very slim pickings.

Personally, I'm old school and I prefer having a hard copy DVD/Blu-Ray of my favorite anime. I have no qualms about having to rely on a download, but hard copies is what I prefer. I've bought tons of official releases, but I've had to download a bunch because they'll never get brought over officially. This is almost a guarantee with an older show. Great example is "Legend of Galactic Heroes." Old, but a grand and awesome show. I've had to download every single thing for this show because there's a snowball's chance in hell of an official release in subbed or even dubbed fashion.

Also, it's rather "lovely" that anime in their original Japanese releases pretty much detest the idea of having even English subtitles. It gets even better since it was the Japanese that decided to put Japan and the USA in the same region code with Blu-Ray. I'd LOVE to get that recent SDF Macross Blu-Ray set, but since there's not even English subtitles, well, my old DVD set will soldier on.

So, in short, it's fansubbers generally taking care of other anime fans since the industry itself doesn't really want to. I've long been flashing money to buy an official release that I can understand what's going on with via subtitles, but most don't want to take the money.

[danth]

I don't know about the death of anime, but Japan's ability to create anime that I give two shits about died over ten years ago.

[VF5SS]

I don't know about the death of anime, but Japan's ability to create anime that I give two shits about died over ten years ago.

are you saying that you... matured D:

[Beltane70]

Maybe I'm just getting too old (43) and my tastes are changing, but I just can't stomach what I've seen of modern anime. Quite happy to rewatch the 80s' classics though and anything Macross.

Graham

Nah, It's not an age thing. I'm 42 and still find plenty of new anime to watch and enjoy. I find that I love quite a few of the newer shows just as much as I love the older ones.

[Keith]

The trick as always is to find the stuff you like, skip the stuff you don't.

[Marzan]

There's still some good stuff being made that can appeal to people brought up with 80's or 90's anime. Problem is these are perhaps not the most popular of shows nowadays and one kind of has to do a bit of research on it. In that sense, i find the "What current anime are you watching" thread right here very useful. You're getting the recommendations from other like minded individuals and not your standard anime forum.