All Things Video Games Thread: II

[JB0]

Oooh, technical discussion about old games! My favorite!

Quick question that isn't really "game" related but hardware related. I'm loving my new Final Fight arcade machine but I'm unsure as to whether I should turn it off when I'm not using it, or just leave it on like how it would've been treated in an arcade. Would constantly powering it on and off be somehow bad for it? Would leaving it on burn it out, so to speak? To me this is just a big cartridge based computer with a hulking CRT monitor on top of it and should be treated as such, but I just want to be sure. Thanks in advance...

Little of column A, little of column B.

Thermal stress as it warms up and cools down from power-cycling will put some wear on the board. Most likely to show as socketed parts creeping out of their sockets. Maybe some broken solder joints. Fixable, but annoying when it happens.

Leaving it on wears out the CRT. And risks burn-in. Do you WANT phantom "GAME OVER" text on top of everything?

I'd vote in favor of power-cycling it. The electrical side is easily repairable, but the CRT is getting hard to replace.

Turning it off when not in use also provides a lair of insurance to your hard-to-replace microchips. They're not at risk of wear, per se, but cutting the power means there's no risk of a power surge frying something that's been out of production for fifteen years..

I think games like Street Fighter III were arcade games that burnt out (I think this had to do with being a disc read by laser which eventually wore out) but my guess with final fight is that you are right and it is just like a cartridge being in a game console.

Actually, the CPS3 board that Street Fighter 3 used loaded the entire disk into RAM at boot, then shut down the drive.

Though more modern electronics are less resiliant than older ones. Lower voltages, higher clock speeds, tighter tolerances, and more heat to remove from smaller parts.

What troubles me is that there is no fan on the top of the cabinet to draw out all of the heat from the 25" CRT, and that thing gets HOT, so I may install some PC case fans or something. If any of you guys have any other ideas on how to take care of this freaking beast, please let me know.

PS: So....do arcade machines still use CRT's or do they use LCD screens now? If so, I'm wondering why they didn't just mount an LCD panel in this cabinet for the obvious advantages that an LCD screen would have over CRT? Would this ancient game not look good on a modern LCD?

A fan can't hurt, though it's probably not necessary. Convection will keep the heat away from the important stuff and get it out of the box(I assume there's a vent in the top like most arcade cabs). There's a good reason the logic boards are all BELOW the CRT. How many tube TVs did you ever see with a cooling fan?

Modern arcade games use LCDs. They don't handle older games very well, though.

Some LCDs make a good showing. Some make the game look like an over-compressed JPEG. Some exhibit weird shimmering and tearing.

Favorite failure I've seen was a Sega Genesis hooked into a PC LCD monitor of unknown model. It got a quite nice image... with a big blue "signal out of range" box covering the center of the screen.

I'm not sure if it's even possible to connect an old arcade like this to an LCD, but even if you could, it's just a plain bad idea. You'd lose the classic scanlines and would probably enounter problems with the screen's refresh rate.

If you get an LCD with RGB inputs(likely via a VGA port), it's probably POSSIBLE, but sub-optimal.

Not so much refresh rate(the board and display are both geared towards 60Hz timings), but the resolution will be weird, HSync timings will be quite a bit slower than expected, and the LCD will probably do strange things while trying to "fix" the image.

[mrhillz]

And it's done, I've finished the main storyline in Skyrim.

[Radd]

I downloaded Mighty Switch Force for the 3DS from the e-shop and it's a blast. Nothing truly game-changing, but good, simple fun for the price.I'd love to see a Metal Slug style shooter or a good platformer with the fluid, detailed sprites and 3D effects in this game. A Bionic Commando remake like that would be brilliant. I've been wanting a redone portable BC ever since Re-Armed. Been playing the Gameboy version on the virtual console, too, but it's not the same. (They made it all futuristic anime rather than WWII retro-styled like the original and Re-Armed.)

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I'm ashamed to say that I never played DD. I plan to fix that soon though. Do any of you guys remember Bad Dudes? I'm assuming that was a DD rip-off?

Seriously? DD was the game every guy at the arcades had to line up for to play because it was so popular. Basically this game got ported to every system known to man lol There was even a live action movie.

Then final Fight came along and showed us much smoother looking animation and larger sprites. (but it is not necessarily as fun since you can chain moves together how you like in the DD games which makes the game more free-flowing)

The various ports to nes were actually not bad but for me the arcade had the 32 bit crunchy sound effects that made each impact sound convincing.

My fave DD is super double dragon on Super Nintendo and Double Dragon Advance.

I hope one day nintendo allows for GBA games to be downloadable on their 3DS Eshop. Maybe they could upgrade the GBA edition to have 3D (not polygon 3d I mean the 3d screen)

So far they have already done it for those who bought 3DS early, but I think they should do it for all games not just a few nintendo first party titles for early adopters of 3DS.

My fave track in Double Dragon is the one from Double Dragon 2 where you reach the final boss:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnO6t6q_mwo

the twin brothers (much like the two guys in "fist of the north star" who have to fight over the girl in a post-apoc world) must work to beat the guy with the only gun in the entire game, in the butt, and then kill each other. Whoever survives get's the girl and proves he is the tougher guy who can protect the lady. (must be the last woman on earth?) Funnily enough, when I first played in co-op with a friend I never told him that is what you have to do and he thought I had gone crazy beating him up to win the game.

More games need to have ending like that where you must beat up and kill the people you co-op with. heh

SOR was pretty daring by letting you join the bad guys if you wanted to. There is not enough story in these types of games to keep the interest of people who are not hardcore into the genre and get scared off by the repetition.

Edited January 2, 2012 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[myk]

What were the dominant years of DD? I don't think I can even recall seeing DD in the arcades, 7-11's, or wherever else you might find an arcade machine. In the hazy visions of my youth all I can remember is Final Fight. And UN Squadron. And Midnight Resistance. And Hippodrome. And Smash TV. And Space Gun. Yeah, I don't really recall much lol...

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

myk:

There is also a funny double dragon minigame within "The Warriors" videogame

lol

Edited January 2, 2012 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

What were the dominant years of DD? I don't think I can even recall seeing DD in the arcades, 7-11's, or wherever else you might find an arcade machine. In the hazy visions of my youth all I can remember is Final Fight. And UN Squadron. And Midnight Resistance. And Hippodrome. And Smash TV. And Space Gun. Yeah, I don't really recall much lol...

The mid-late 80s?

I think for me it was around the same time of after burner, outrun, shinobi, that time..

Loads of beat em ups were around this time.

Ninja Gaiden (arcade version)

River City Ransom (nes)

POW (you play a soldier trying to escape using mostly your punches and kicks and occassionally guns.

Then there were games in the 90s by other companies like Konami which had their own beat em ups, and capcom obviously continued their final fight games through sequels.

example of a 90s beat em up:

I think DD was what really popularised the genre though..

Interesting mech beat em up that might suit this board (you guys are into giant robots and stuff)

^

I loved that game. metal music mixed with mecha and parts that you can add to your character to enhance it.

Ask your friend to get you a cabinet of that!

Edited January 2, 2012 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[myk]

myk:

There is also a funny double dragon minigame within "The Warriors" videogame

lol

WTF lol. Wow thanks for that, I'll have to check it out.

Oooh, technical discussion about old games! My favorite!

Wow thanks for the wealth of information. Uh.....there's no vent at the very top of the machine, which makes me worry. The back of the machine has a 45 degree angled panel that has some holes in it, but nothing else. Naturally, the power supply, which I'm guessing is the same sort of thing you'd find in a PC, has its own fan. I might put my dremel to use and just cut some holes into the top.

I guess board failure is something I might have to deal with in the future. When and if that happens I'll convert this cabinet into a MAME cabinet-something I wish my eccentric friend had done in the first place.

Question: I believe Final Fight is a CPS2/Jamma system. Does that mean that I can just plug in other CPS2 boards? What about CPS 1 and 3 boards?

The mid-late 80s?

I think for me it was around the same time of after burner, out run, shinobi that time..

Huh. You know what I don't remember seeing either Shinobi or Afterburner in the arcades either, which is weird, because I remember seeing Afterburner in Terminator 2, which was sooooo 1991...

Edited January 2, 2012 by myk

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

If you get a big enough house:

see if you can get that. Street Fighter combined with mecha from Armored Warriors = cyberbots.

Man I feel old.

The only recent sprites based beat up was that batman game on the Wii that I played made by WayForward.

I wish capcom went back and did sequels to some of this stuff.

Maybe remake Final Fight 1 and upgrade the game. Make it have multiple pathways, loads of levels, and more characters to choose from.

It is interesting that you mention you don't like 3d, (or was that someone else) because one of my fave beat em ups is actually a sega game known as diehard arcade. I tend to prefer 2d beat em ups because I like the sprites, but I will play any good 3d one too. I didn't like the 3d final fight game on ps2 though..

Edited January 2, 2012 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[myk]

It is interesting that you mention you don't like 3d, because one of my fave beat em ups is actually a sega game known as diehard arcade. I tend to prefer 2d beat em ups because I like the sprites, but I will play any good 3d one too. I didn't like the 3d final fight game on ps2 though..

Oh, if I ever led anyone to believe that I'm not a fan of 3D let me apologize-I'm into a game if it offers me entertainment. Funny that you mention Diehard Arcade-my local bowling alley actually HAS that game lol. I've heard about that Final Fight on the PS2; Streetwise, I think it's called? I do remember that Cyberbots game though-aren't some of those guys in the Marvel vs Capcom games? Yeah it didn't get too many good marks. As for sprites in brawling/fighting games, I have to agree with you on that. Hell, the sprite based version of Mai Shiranui in Capcom Vs Snk is the best rendition of her EVER IMO-forget that 3D stuff...

Edited January 2, 2012 by myk

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

My review of Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword:

A little late to the discussion here, but figured I'd chime in on Skyward Sword, having just completed it. I was actually quite surprised at the depth and level of intensity present, particularly as the game gets closer to its epic finale (and I do say epic!). Not only did Nintendo make a solid Zelda game, but they made a prequel which establishes some context for the entire franchise (particularly the origins of certain characters and artifacts) and also enriches it with some new content, possibilities for further exploration, etc. While the graphics may have taken on a more artistic style than Twilight Princess, the game has a very serious tone that is on par with the best of the previous games, and I would say I enjoyed it as much as Ocarina of Time.

The puzzles are all creative and offer some decent challenges - I consider myself very adept at these styles of games, and there were a couple spots where figuring things out took me a while, but felt all the more sweet once I got past them.

I was also able to 100% the game pickups (heart containers, items, etc) and never once did it feel like I was stepping out of the main story to complete an unrelated side quest (which has been more jarring in past games). The optional extras are paced well such that they become available in times and places where the main story intersects, and can be taken in bite-sized pieces that add up to a larger narrative by the end.

My one complaint is that the main antagonist whom you fight in the game (Ghirahim) doesn't really come off as a believable villain, because he's... well, a little kooky. Every hero needs a villain, and the hero's actions don't seem nearly as heroic when the villain doesn't provide him with physical, mental, and moral adversity to overcome (okay, rant over). Similar to Zant in Twilight Princess, he has a threatening appearance at first, but then proceeds to go more the route of a badly-scripted clown who throws tantrums and doesn't pose a threat to the hero. To be fair, all of my "insane bad guy" critiques end up being compared to Kefka from FFVI, but in that context he falls a little short for me. Also like Zant, the big reveal near the end of the game does provide context for his behavior

as the evil counterpart to Fi, and the personification of a Dark Master Sword

and is much less of a jarring shift since he pretty much states who he's really working for throughout the entire game, but I never did get the same feeling of him being a viable, threatening villain with a constant presence like with Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time.

I could go on, but I'm sure most folks stopped reading 3 paragraphs ago I highly recommend this game if you own a Wii, as it's a very fitting book-end for the tail end of the system's life, and will provide you with a solid experience. I clocked in at just over 50 hours to complete it, and probably could have shaved that down to 40 without side quests, but the bulk of that time is taken up by story progression. There's not a lot of tedious backtracking or fetch quests, and every item gets used to its fullest extent in solving puzzles that are clever and original (especially the ones involving Time Shift stones).

Bought this on release but occupied by skyrim. Will probably start this after I complete the main quest in skyrim. Problem with skyrim is how easy it is to get sidetracked doing sidequests so if you set yourself a goal you end up having 50 other things you want to do on the way.

50 hours is just the right length. And I'm glad you mention backtracking is kept down to reasonable levels. I have a lot of games I want to play but I fall behind and end up half completing them and starting another game.

Edited January 2, 2012 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Oh, if I ever led anyone to believe that I'm not a fan of 3D let me apologize-I'm into a game if it offers me entertainment. Funny that you mention Diehard Arcade-my local bowling alley actually HAS that game lol. I've heard about that Final Fight on the PS2; Streetwise, I think it's called? I do remember that Cyberbots game though-aren't some of those guys in the Marvel vs Capcom games? Yeah it didn't get too many good marks. As for sprites in brawling/fighting games, I have to agree with you on that. Hell, the sprite based version of Mai Shiranui in Capcom Vs Snk is the best rendition of her EVER IMO-forget that 3D stuff...

I think it was someone else. As I was reading through it all there were many talking about the subject. lol So I got all confused.

I think the only reason 3d graphics are used for fighting games now is cost cutting reasons. heh

Anyone who plays them knows that gameplay is 2d and 3d is not necessary for these popular titles that got by ok without it in the past.

I don't think we will ever see capcom do a new Street Fighter game using 2d hand drawn sprites again like they did with street fighter 3; which I might add has aged nicely. Most likely they will just cel shade a cg model (ie tatsunoko vs capcom). Which is why I am happy there are still 2d hand drawn games like king of fighters 13 and rayman origins that use that style of graphics.

yes the guy in cyberbots features in mvc 1 & 2. The robot helps as a screen filling super move. I'm more of a sf guy than mvc though.

Edited January 2, 2012 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I've a feeling that I'm probably the only one who even cares about FF XIII-2 here, but has anyone played the Japanese version yet? I heard some complaints at gamefaqs about there being only two playable characters in the form of Sera Farron and some kid named Noel. But what with the forum being primarily populated by 13-year-olds, I have my doubts on how believable the news is.

But if it's true; kinda skimpy on the character roster, ain't it?

Honestly, I shouldn't even care about the sequel after the somewhat disappointment of FF XIII, but IGN's been waxing poetic about how XIII-2's such a massive improvement from the first XIII game. Just looking for a decent FF game to tide me over until Versus XIII finally come out.

I probably won't have enough time to fit another epic rpg in my schedule. I still have XenoBlade on wii and Tales of the Abyss on 3ds to get through along with zelda and skyrim. So many games, so little time..

Anyone else feel like they can barely keep up?

Edited January 2, 2012 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[frothymug]

After reading the last day's worth of posts, I was about to mention that Die Hard arcade game, but someone beat me to it

I recently picked up Revenge of the Titans and Bastion from Steam during their ridiculous prices sale... got the former for $2.49 and the latter for $5.09.

I've played Revenge quite a bit and it's a lot of fun, but the later parts of the game can get downright frustrating. This is probably due to the fact that I suck at RTS games... Revenge is a combination tower-defense/RTS game and it's super-lightweight with plenty of content to keep you busy. The AI is very well-programmed. Some monsters are entirely predictable, but then some of them are smart as hell and will test your defenses for weaknesses and then exploit them, much to your chagrin.

I just got Bastion last night, so I haven't had a chance to play it yet. I hear it's quite the bomb, though.

[David Hingtgen]

The first time you die in Bastion will likely be one of your all-time fave moments. Trust me.

[macross_fan99]

I think it was someone else. As I was reading through it all there were many talking about the subject. lol So I got all confused.

I think the only reason 3d graphics are used for fighting games now is cost cutting reasons. heh

Anyone who plays them knows that gameplay is 2d and 3d is not necessary for these popular titles that got by ok without it in the past.

I don't think we will ever see capcom do a new Street Fighter game using 2d hand drawn sprites again like they did with street fighter 3; which I might add has aged nicely. Most likely they will just cel shade a cg model (ie tatsunoko vs capcom). Which is why I am happy there are still 2d hand drawn games like king of fighters 13 and rayman origins that use that style of graphics.

yes the guy in cyberbots features in mvc 1 & 2. The robot helps as a screen filling super move. I'm more of a sf guy than mvc though.

King of Fighters and Rayman actually use very different styles of art though.

Rayman is just animation that plays when you press a button, that is why it looks very smooth. KOF is sprites. Basically what they did before 3d where each character is drawn one dot at a time. Its much more time consuming to do sprites, especially in HD and that is why each character in KOF takes 1.5 years to complete. They also have a hard time finding people to do it since sprite design is a lost art because no one uses it anymore.

They do look great though. I'm a sucker for 2d art in games and I would like to see more since we finally have consoles that can really make some nice stuff. I would love a new Megaman X game done with 2d HD graphics.

[BeyondTheGrave]

I think it was someone else. As I was reading through it all there were many talking about the subject. lol So I got all confused.

I think the only reason 3d graphics are used for fighting games now is cost cutting reasons. heh

Anyone who plays them knows that gameplay is 2d and 3d is not necessary for these popular titles that got by ok without it in the past.

I don't think we will ever see capcom do a new Street Fighter game using 2d hand drawn sprites again like they did with street fighter 3; which I might add has aged nicely. Most likely they will just cel shade a cg model (ie tatsunoko vs capcom). Which is why I am happy there are still 2d hand drawn games like king of fighters 13 and rayman origins that use that style of graphics.

yes the guy in cyberbots features in mvc 1 & 2. The robot helps as a screen filling super move. I'm more of a sf guy than mvc though.

IMO 3D graphics in fighting games allow for more stylish movements.

[JB0]

Wow thanks for the wealth of information. Uh.....there's no vent at the very top of the machine, which makes me worry. The back of the machine has a 45 degree angled panel that has some holes in it, but nothing else. Naturally, the power supply, which I'm guessing is the same sort of thing you'd find in a PC, has its own fan. I might put my dremel to use and just cut some holes into the top.

I assume the angled panel is above everything else?

It can't hurt to add a vent on the top. If you're concerned, I'd err on the side of less destruction and put a fan on the existing vent, personally.

Question: I believe Final Fight is a CPS2/Jamma system. Does that mean that I can just plug in other CPS2 boards? What about CPS 1 and 3 boards?

Final Fight is actually CPS1. http://system16.com/...ware.php?id=793

You can swap other CPS1 game boards in, but CPS2 and CPS3 will require new logic boards, for obvious reasons.

CPS1 is JAMMA, though, so swapping in other JAMMA boards like CPS2 and CPS3 is easy.... more or less.

Here's the fun part.

A notable restriction of JAMMA is that it only supports two digital joysticks, two start buttons, and two sets of three fire buttons for player input.

I bet you're already asking "Then how does Street Fighter work?"

The answer is... the six-button fighting games CPS2 is known for require a SECOND connection be made between the board and the additional controls via a wiring harness.

In most Capcom fighters, the kick buttons are wired to this harness, resulting in it being known colloquailly as the kick harness.

These auxillary wiring harnesses are... not standard, to say the least.

My understanding is that all the CPS2 6-button fighters use the same kick harness, so you could easily swap XMen VS Street Fighter for Marvel VS Capcom for Dark Stalkers for Super Street Fighter 2. This MAY extend to all JAMMA+ CPS2 games, but I'm not sure.

Beyond that, there's no consistency whatsoever. So depending on your board collection, you may wind up with a half-dozen or so little wiring harnesses to swap every time you change games.

JAMMA also only supports mono sound. Boards with stereo sound have separate audio outputs, though they also have a mono channel on the JAMMA connector. So they can still be easily swapped with standard JAMMA cabs, but you won't get the glorious stereophonic sound out of them.

And Colonel Campbell will recoil in horror at your mono setup(not joking, this actually happens at one point in Metal Gear Solid if you set the sound to mono).

As far as the other side of the fence... SNK's NeoGeo boards are NOT JAMMA.

They use the same connector, and MOST of the pins are the same, but there are some critical differences. Connecting a NeoGeo directly to a JAMMA connector will damage your NeoGeo board's audio amplifier. You need an adapter.

Said adapter is trivial to make, or it can be purchased if you (understandably) don't want to wire up two 50-pin edge connectors.

Edited January 3, 2012 by JB0

[myk]

I assume the angled panel is above everything else?

It can't hurt to add a vent on the top. If you're concerned, I'd err on the side of less destruction and put a fan on the existing vent, personally.

Yes, the panel is situated behind the monitor. That's a great idea about adding the fan to the already existing vents. Now, I'm assuming that I'd just wire this into the power supply. I'm hoping that it's a PC-like PSU, so that way it'll be easier for me to wire up a case fan.

Final Fight is actually CPS1. http://system16.com/...ware.php?id=793

You can swap other CPS1 game boards in, but CPS2 and CPS3 will require new logic boards, for obvious reasons.

CPS1 is JAMMA, though, so swapping in other JAMMA boards like CPS2 and CPS3 is easy.... more or less.

Damn. So I can swap in any other CPS1 board, I get that, but does this mean that I can also swap in other JAMMA boards that are not CPS based? Or is this where I have to experiment to see what will and won't work? Thanks again for all of the 'info 'JB-I guess at some point I may have to join an arcade forum. Or, I might have to move you in to the apartment next to me that's for rent...

Edit: Just checked out that site you linked to. If I understand this correctly, I should be able to swap in games like Carrier Airwing, UN Squadron, Magic Sword and even Street Fighter (with the harness you mentioned and a new control layout obviously). Exciting!

Edited January 3, 2012 by myk

[JB0]

Damn. So I can swap in any other CPS1 board, I get that, but does this mean that I can also swap in other JAMMA boards that are not CPS based? Or is this where I have to experiment to see what will and won't work?

Okay, there's two separate things going here.

CPS1 games are a two-board set. One board has the computer, the other has the game. You can swap JUST the game board to play other CPS1 games. You never have to touch the JAMMA connector for these. Though it looks like CPS1 games are a bare circuit board covered in ROMs, and connect at like three different places, so... be careful changing the ROM board.

Non-CPS1 games, you'll have to swap the entire set. At the JAMMA connector as opposed to at the CPS1 board.

Once you have a CPS2 board installed, you can swap CPS2 cartridges at the CPS2 board.

Think of the JAMMA connector like the plugs on the back of your TV. Swapping a game at the JAMMA connector is like unplugging the SNES and plugging in the Genesis, effectively.

Anything that's 2 players and three buttons or less should be plug and play, so to speak.

Anything that's CPS2 and a six-button fighter should use the same secondary harness, so that simplifies things a bit.

If it's 3 or 4-player and you don't intend to play it more than two-player, you can skip the harness entirely, for obvious reasons.

Thanks again for all of the 'info 'JB-I guess at some point I may have to join an arcade forum. Or, I might have to move you in to the apartment next to me that's for rent...

An arcade forum would be a good idea, actually.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/ seems to be fairly decent, if you go the MAME cab route.

I actually looked up most of the harness stuff as I was typing that last post. I knew the basics of JAMMA, but only had a rough idea how things went once you exceeded the spec.

And I vaguely half-remembered some kind of gotcha with the NeoGeo, so did a quick search for "neogeo jamma" to see what came up. I didn't expect dire hardware-frying possibilities, to be honest. Glad I checked.

Sadly, I don't actually OWN any arcade hardware.

And my primary interests skew towards the older, pre-JAMMA stuff.

Especially vector games. Grew up on a Vectrex, and those hard lines make me all warm and fuzzy inside.

[myk]

Ok ok I think I got it: the cabinet accepts a JAMMA based board. The CPS is a JAMMA based board with a secondary board that contains the game itself. To play any other CPS game I need to only swap the game-board on the CPS main board, which stays in the cabinet. To play a non-CPS game, I would have to remove and replace the entire CPS main board and replace with the other JAMMA based board.

Yeah, opening up the back of this machine is.....daunting, so say the least. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen so many ROMS in my entire life. I'm not sure if I want to go digging in there, unplugging this and moving that and whatever. I might have to keep this machine a dedicated Final Fight machine, and just build another cabinet with more options or MAME it.........and then buy a house to store them all lol.

As for owning arcade hardware, dude it's not all it's cracked up to be. If I had a house like Mike Z. I'd be fine, but this is 1 bedroom city and it's complicated, to say the least. I'm sure you've got a nice emulator thing going and that's ALL the arcade anyone really needs...

Edited January 3, 2012 by myk

[JB0]

Ok ok I think I got it: the cabinet accepts a JAMMA based board. The CPS is a JAMMA based board with a secondary board that contains the game itself. To play any other CPS game I need to only swap the game-board on the CPS main board, which stays in the cabinet. To play a non-CPS game, I would have to remove and replace the entire CPS main board and replace with the other JAMMA based board.

Exactly!

Keep in mind that, depending on game, some come as dedicated boards and others(like the CPS2 and NeoGeo) come as more console-y systems.

CPS2 and NeoGeo are also nicer than CPS1 in that games come in actual cartridges(though a CPS2 cartridge isn't really smaller than a CPS1 board, it just looks better since it's in a shell).

As for owning arcade hardware, dude it's not all it's cracked up to be. If I had a house like Mike Z. I'd be fine, but this is 1 bedroom city and it's complicated, to say the least. I'm sure you've got a nice emulator thing going and that's ALL the arcade anyone really needs...

Vector doesn't emulate well, actually. It's a fundamentally different approach to image creation(rough analogy: it's an Etch-A-Sketch compared to the normal display's Lite-Brite), and there's a lot of quirks that don't get reproduced in MAME(or most other emulators).

But yeah, I'd definitely settle for a MAME cab, and realistically, that's what I'll do. Got plans to build one at some point, with a modular control panel so I can get the right controls for the right game(again, preferences skew old enough that a lot of it defies modern standards, though certainly some of it is me being nitpicky).

Right now I've got a PC and no place to stick even an arcade control panel. Make do with a gamepad a lot of the time, keyboard and trackball when that won't cut it. It's not optimum, but it's better than a lot of things.

...

And I just don't even TRY to emulate Defender. Look at the controls, you'll understand why.

[myk]

Exactly!

Keep in mind that, depending on game, some come as dedicated boards and others(like the CPS2 and NeoGeo) come as more console-y systems.

CPS2 and NeoGeo are also nicer than CPS1 in that games come in actual cartridges(though a CPS2 cartridge isn't really smaller than a CPS1 board, it just looks better since it's in a shell).

Been reading up on the CPS systems. Interesting how the CPS1 systems were easily bootlegged, hence the CPS2 versions that required regional-matched "A" and "B" boards to work. Also read about the "Capcom Suicide" deal, where the battery-powered CPS2 boards would lose the ability to run because their voltage dropped too low and the decryption data became lost. I guess one can either send the boards off to Capcom for repair/revival or get a CPS board that has been 'modded to get around the battery enabled encryption.

I'm seriously tempted to start buying CPS 1 boards, especially Street Fighter 2, since all I would need is the kick harness and a new 6 button control layout. And, since this is all designed around the warm and happy JAMMA system, I guess I could start buying CPS2 board systems also. Dammit. Another money and time sucking hobby to contend with...

[GU-11]

This is probably not the best place to post this, but does anyone know if Creative's new Recon3D sound enhancer will work with the PS3? A review says that it has SPDIF [coaxial] input, but AFAIK the PS3 uses one of those fiber optic cables [don't remember what they're called; digital cable or something?]

To make matters more complicated, I'm currently using an old Altec Lansing ADA 885 5.1 speaker system, which uses a coaxial cable [the one that looks like your regular red, yellow and white analog cables, except it's black and digital] for Dolby Digital. So far, I've been using prologic for my gaming audio due to the cable incompatibility.

So, short of getting a full-blown home theater system, would this Recon3D thingy be able to solve the problem cause by the cable incompatibility, as in being able to input from a PS3's digital cable, and output to my ADA 885 via a coaxial cable?

Edited January 5, 2012 by GU-11

[mikeszekely]

This is probably not the best place to post this, but does anyone know if Creative's new Recon3D sound enhancer will work with the PS3? A review says that it has SPDIF [coaxial] input, but AFAIK the PS3 uses one of those fiber optic cables [don't remember what they're called; digital cable or something?]

To make matters more complicated, I'm currently using an old Altec Lansing ADA 885 5.1 speaker system, which uses a coaxial cable [the one that looks like your regular red, yellow and white analog cables, except it's black and digital] for Dolby Digital. So far, I've been using prologic for my gaming audio due to the cable incompatibility.

So, short of getting a full-blown home theater system, would this Recon3D thingy be able to solve the problem cause by the cable incompatibility, as in being able to input from a PS3's digital cable, and output to my ADA 885 via a coaxial cable?

They make adapters for that, you know. I was using my fiber optic inputs on my receiver for my PS3 and my Xbox 360. I wanted to add an HTPC, and I picked a mobo because it was advertised as having fiber optic and coax outputs. Except, as it turns out, the coax was input only. So I bought an adapter, ran audio from the fiber optic out, coverted it to coax, then ran it into the coax input on the receiver. Try searching Amazon for "fiber optic to coax" or "toslink to coax." I can't remember for sure, but I think that's where I got mine, and it was less than $20.

[Black Valkyrie]

Remember Streets of Rage,

[GU-11]

They make adapters for that, you know. I was using my fiber optic inputs on my receiver for my PS3 and my Xbox 360. I wanted to add an HTPC, and I picked a mobo because it was advertised as having fiber optic and coax outputs. Except, as it turns out, the coax was input only. So I bought an adapter, ran audio from the fiber optic out, coverted it to coax, then ran it into the coax input on the receiver. Try searching Amazon for "fiber optic to coax" or "toslink to coax." I can't remember for sure, but I think that's where I got mine, and it was less than $20.

Mike, you're a life saver. I never knew they made adaptors for that.

I just hope amazon ships to Southeast Asia, or I'm sunk. I doubt they sell these where I'm at.

[myk]

Remember Streets of Rage,

I actually, really loved the sound track to that game; seems like I'm not the only one either, as they tend to fetch a lot on ebay and such. Was SOR ever an arcade game?

Anyway here are some shots of my machine:

[TheLoneWolf]

Thanks for posting those pics. The cabinet and artwork are in great condition, like they just rolled off the assembly line. Is it just me, or do most 80's arcade bezels look like they were drawn by the same person?

[myk]

Thanks for posting those pics. The cabinet and artwork are in great condition, like they just rolled off the assembly line. Is it just me, or do most 80's arcade bezels look like they were drawn by the same person?

What gets me is that they actually managed to find the marquee, bezel/overlay and the side graphics. Even when this game was new back in the day I don't ever remember seeing machines in this good of a shape, or even any machines with the side graphics. I talked to the guy that services the arcade machines at my work and they tell me that even without ebay most shops have tons of vintage arcade material, and even if one person doesn't have something, another person or shop almost always does have that rare part.

One thing that always made me wonder, including this game, is why the art work on the cabinets doesn't always match up with the game content?

Meanwhile, I'm planning to additional fan-cooling for the innards; this thing gets hot!

Edited January 5, 2012 by myk

[TheLoneWolf]

I'm not sure, but I always assumed that bezels were rush jobs. They're not used in Japanese arcades. I assume that the US bezel artist only had a few Japanese flyers and screenshots to work off of before he or she would have to furiously crank out the bezel artwork and move on to the next assignment. I doubt accuracy was a big deal since the artist probably assumed that the bezel would end up being trashed when the arcade was cycled out, if the bezel was even used at all.

It's nice to know that there are still some arcade shops in business and that they've stockpiled the arcades' artwork.

[myk]

I'm not sure, but I always assumed that bezels were rush jobs. They're not used in Japanese arcades. I assume that the US bezel artist only had a few Japanese flyers and screenshots to work off of before he or she would have to furiously crank out the bezel artwork and move on to the next assignment. I doubt accuracy was a big deal since the artist probably assumed that the bezel would end up being trashed when the arcade was cycled out, if the bezel was even used at all.

It's nice to know that there are still some arcade shops in business and that they've stockpiled the arcades' artwork.

That explains everything, then. I knew it had something to do with bringing the game over into the states and the people here trying to adapt a Japanese product. Anyway, seeing your member name is making me fantasize about buying a Capcom Vs SNK arcade machine that I know is for sale. LOL!

[Radd]

Only 5 more days...

[Shaorin]

I probably won't have enough time to fit another epic rpg in my schedule. I still have XenoBlade on wii and Tales of the Abyss on 3ds to get through along with zelda and skyrim. So many games, so little time..

Anyone else feel like they can barely keep up?

i laugh my laugh at all the noise NP has been making about ABYSS on the 3DS. played the whole damned thing through several years ago via it's initial PS2 release...

[Black Valkyrie]

Was SOR ever an arcade game?

No, never.

Magicbox, Rumor :

Nekkei Trendy also reported that Nintendo will roll out the 3DS Lite model in Japan during the first half of 2012.