All Things Video Games Thread: II

[mikeszekely]

While I think my criticism of newer Final Fantasy games can be extrapolated to a good amount of modern JRPGs, I was specifically addressing Final Fantasy.

I don't think the problem is that they haven't stuck with tried and true game mechanics

I'm not either. Yes, regular turn-based mechanics work fine. But yes, trying to spruce it up (I loved Xenogears point system, for example) can work too.

But speaking of Final Fantasy, every time they've tried to do something different, like Final Fantasy XIII, it's been crap.

For what its worth, my favorite JRPG from the PlayStation 2 era on has been Shin Megami Tensei 3. Simple turn-based battle system that relied heavily on elemental attacks, gorgeous look, fairly original (at least by JRPG standards) plot, and very little hand-holding. My biggest complaint with it was that it was actually too hard. I confess I had to use a Code Breaker to beat the final boss, and even then, it was a two hour affair with him healing more damage than I was afflicting some rounds.

[Duke Togo]

But speaking of Final Fantasy, every time they've tried to do something different, like Final Fantasy XIII, it's been crap.

XIII was neither original, nor was it innovative; it was a regression. I played maybe 15 minutes of it before turning around and selling it.

I don't think anyone can fault the FF series for being hit or miss; over 20+ years you are going to have some duds. FFII may be the worst game I've ever played to completion, I wouldn't play through VIII again if you paid me, and XIII wasn't worth the effort. IX is a wonderful game up until the 4th disc, and XII was so ambitious and strong that it went off the reservation and stumbled toward the end game.

Going back over the past decade there have been three JRPG's that I have enjoyed: Final Fantasy X, XII, and Dragon Quest VIII. However, I wouldn't put any of them over several of the JRPG's I played in the decade preceding it (oh, but XII had so much potential, but just didn't quite close the deal). In the PSX era alone, Final Fantasy VII, Tactics, Front Mission 3, Vagrant Story, and Xenogears are all superior to any JRPG I've played in the PS2 era forward. Now, I haven't finished Xenoblade yet, so I am not including it in the conversation, but I don't think its a stretch to say it's the best JRPG I've seen in a decade.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Duke Togo

[David Hingtgen]

Hell, my favorite game of all time is a JRPG, Xenogears.

Because it's the best game ever.

To all nay-sayers---yes, Xenogears is unfinished, with Disc 2 mainly comprised of text narration and still pics of what you should have been allowed to play. But even with a huge chunk of the game missing, it's still THAT good.

I'd love to play Xenoblade, but don't plan to buy and hack a Wii just for it. Xenoblade and Mario Galaxy are about the only games I've truly wanted to play on that system.

[Keith]

I'm only part way through Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky, but it's really good so far. engine wise, it's like a mix between PS1 era Lunar, & Grandia.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Keith

[JB0]

I'd like to point out that the brilliant Xenoblade Chronicles is everything that is right about JRPG's.

My first JRPG was Dragon Warrior (I've also played II, III, VI, and VIII), and I've played every Final Fantasy up to (but not including) 13, excluding 11. Hell, my favorite game of all time is a JRPG, Xenogears. I'd like to think I've got a pretty good handle on what a good JRPG is, or at least what I think one is. I don't think the problem is that they haven't stuck with tried and true game mechanics (though, it's one of the things I love about the Dragon Quest series), the problem is a total lack of originality or vision from the developers--SquareEnix in particular.

Unfortunately, there's only one Tetsuya Takahashi and only one Yasumi Matsuno (and thankfully neither one is with SquareEnix).

I should've said what's wrong with JRPGs nowadays.

One of my best games ever is a JRPG as well(I find it hard to pick a single #1 and keep it there as my mood shifts).

Specifically, Lunar: Eternal Blue. Only on SegaCD. WELCOMETOTHENEXTLEVEL

I believe I once called it the only good Genesis game. Yes, I was a particularly bad Nintendo fanboy back in the days.

Xenogears was a contender to dethrone it, but... seriously, disk 2 is that bad.

[Duke Togo]

Because it's the best game ever.

To all nay-sayers---yes, Xenogears is unfinished, with Disc 2 mainly comprised of text narration and still pics of what you should have been allowed to play. But even with a huge chunk of the game missing, it's still THAT good.

I'd love to play Xenoblade, but don't plan to buy and hack a Wii just for it. Xenoblade and Mario Galaxy are about the only games I've truly wanted to play on that system.

Hacking a Wii is fairly simple if you have an SD card handy and a computer that has a card reader. Of course, the best way to do it is through emulation; Dolphin runs the game beautifully and at much higher resolutions than the Wii.

[Wanzerfan]

Yeah, Xenogears disk 2 is very weak, with only a few sidequests to it before going on to tackle Deus. Also, the game's main weakness is that it's tends to be very linear (granted not as linear as, say, FF XII) but the menuless battle engine and the story really blow those gripes out of the water.

Too bad Xenosaga II did so bad in sales, I would've loved to see the whole story of the Xenosaga franchise, including to what happened after the events of Xenogears.

I also just started Deus Ex: Human Revolution recently, and sad to say, I have to start the damned thing over. It seems that I missed a rather easy Achievement to get in the game . I also couldn't believe how totally f.u.b.a.r.ed the main character got in the beginning of the game. I'll use a spoiler tag for those who are squeamish.

Not only were his arms totally destroyed, but he just about disemboweled when he was thrown though the window (you could see the intestines clearly through the gaping hole in his abdomen). Not for the faint of heart.

Are you talking about Persona 3, mikeszekely? I have the FES version of the game myself (and boy what a pain in the a$$ getting it was), and a walkthough. According to that particular walkthough, well, spoiler tag time.

You need to max out at least a few of your friend's affinities so you can get an item that will allow you to create powerful Personas. And even with those Pesonas the damned fight will probably take a few hours

Edited August 28, 2011 by Wanzerfan

[Ghost Train]

I'm giving Deus Ex a try too (I played the 1st & 2nd way back in the day). Although I prefer the Ninja playstyle, I unfortunately find myself treating the game like a shooter. Ammo seems to be scarce in this game, so I adopted the tactics of tossing objects and pissing off the local gangs, seek cover, holster my weapon, and let the police pop the bad guys for me... then I swoop in and loot .

Since I'm from Detroit, it's nice that they did some localization research, though some of it is a bit off:

• Malik mentions the Ren Center, which is the current HQ for GM .
  
• You are told to meet someone at Grand River road, though it's actually more of an avenue that runs from the sprawl to the city.
  
• Malik has a Middle Eastern look (she is quite sexy imo ), some of the material references her as being from Dearborn, MI which is home to one of the largest ME communities in North America.
  

[Wanzerfan]

I'm giving Deus Ex a try too (I played the 1st & 2nd way back in the day). Although I prefer the Ninja playstyle, I unfortunately find myself treating the game like a shooter. Ammo seems to be scarce in this game, so I adopted the tactics of tossing objects and pissing off the local gangs, seek cover, holster my weapon, and let the police pop the bad guys for me... then I swoop in and loot .

Since I'm from Detroit, it's nice that they did some localization research, though some of it is a bit off:

• Malik mentions the Ren Center, which is the current HQ for GM .
  
• You are told to meet someone at Grand River road, though it's actually more of an avenue that runs from the sprawl to the city.
  
• Malik has a Middle Eastern look (she is quite sexy imo ), some of the material references her as being from Dearborn, MI which is home to one of the largest ME communities in North America.
  

Did I fail to mention that Mr. Bilger (Seto Kaiba) lives in the Dearborn area of Michigan? Well, that's my LKA For him, anyway.

[Beltane70]

The only Final Fantasy game that I wound up hating so far was VIII. That could change, as I haven't yet played I, II, V, and IX.

[Duke Togo]

The only Final Fantasy game that I wound up hating so far was VIII. That could change, as I haven't yet played I, II, V, and IX.

You won't like II; nobody likes II.

[reeoyuy]

Are you talking about Persona 3, mikeszekely? I have the FES version of the game myself (and boy what a pain in the a$$ getting it was), and a walkthough. According to that particular walkthough, well, spoiler tag time.

You need to max out at least a few of your friend's affinities so you can get an item that will allow you to create powerful Personas. And even with those Pesonas the damned fight will probably take a few hours

I think he meant Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne (or Lucifer's Call in Europe). Not Shin Megami Tensei Persona 3.

[VF-19]

Been going on a nostalgia trip with Gog.com's release of Wing Commander I and II! I love those games!

[Warmaker]

Been going on a nostalgia trip with Gog.com's release of Wing Commander I and II! I love those games!

Funny you brought up Gog.com. I month ago I got from them Arcanum: Of Magicka and Steamworks. I loved that game back in '99/'00, but it's been more than a decade since I played it. I got it after another discussion about RPGs in another forum, then I remembered Arcanum and talked about it.

When I get back into the USA, I still have my CDs for Lucasarts' X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, X-Wing: Alliance, along with their respective expansions. Think I'll dive back into 'em.

[David Hingtgen]

Final Fantasy II is awful. I have tried, and tried, and tried, on multiple systems to at least finish it. I just can't. Furthest I got was the Tower Of Mysidia (I think). In there, is an enemy that likes to cast "confuse-all" a lot. Well, you usually die (slowly), because that's about the only thing it ever casts. You just sit there for 5 mins watching your party slowly kill itself. And there is no consumable item that gets rid of confuse, and no equippable item to prevent it. The only solution is the Esuna spell. I would need Esuna, *level 6* to cure confuse. Well, that's 2400 castings to get all 4 people to know it at level 6. I said "forget it" and have never played since.

Even with cheating/abuse, the levelling system is just game-killing. (and I spent hours cheating one time, and I *still* couldn't get past some section). What is the completion time on FF2j? 700 hours?

[Duke Togo]

I've finished both the original NES FFII and the PSX release...

Just my opinion, but I believe that FFIII is the great unknown gem of the FF franchise; it might be in my top 5 favorite FF games.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Duke Togo

[JB0]

I'd love to play Xenoblade, but don't plan to buy and hack a Wii just for it. Xenoblade and Mario Galaxy are about the only games I've truly wanted to play on that system.

I missed this until just now.

What about Another Code R, AKA Trace Memory 2, AKA Dammit Europe is Not Supposed to Get Games That Don't Come to America?

Also: Muramasa. Everyone wants Muramasa. Some people just don't yet KNOW they want Muramasa.

Edited August 29, 2011 by JB0

[bluemax151]

To all nay-sayers---yes, Xenogears is unfinished, with Disc 2 mainly comprised of text narration and still pics of what you should have been allowed to play. But even with a huge chunk of the game missing, it's still THAT good.

Xenogears is really boring even for a JRPG. Too much scrolling through text dialogue with bland background music being the major problem. Something that wouldn't be a problem these days (with so much audio work) I think. That said it's still has other positive aspects that made it possible for me to chug through it.

I'm only part way through Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky, but it's really good so far. engine wise, it's like a mix between PS1 era Lunar, & Grandia.

I've heard pretty good things about this game from several people. Probably going to pick it up myself. If it really plays like Grandia and Lunar I'll probably love it.

[UN Spacy]

Details for the new Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword. Coming 11/20/11.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1191301p1.html

[Wanzerfan]

For those of you who have the Official FF IX strategy Guide, we're s.o.l., mainly because Square-Enix's Playonline dropped their support of the online strategy guide. Oh, well, I guess that's what GameFaqs is for.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Wanzerfan

[mikeszekely]

I think he meant Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne (or Lucifer's Call in Europe). Not Shin Megami Tensei Persona 3.

reeoyuy is correct. Although I've heard they're very good, I never played any of the Persona series, because playing half the game as a Japanese school sim sounds really dull.

SMT3 is different. I liked it because it's not a game about saving the world... the world ends during the first half hour. The game is really more about how you deal with the end of the world.

[JB0]

For those of you who have the Official FF IX strategy Guide, we're s.o.l., mainly because Square-Enix's Playonline dropped their support of the online strategy guide. Oh, well, I guess that's what GameFaqs is for.

Few years late on the indignation there. People were outraged when it first hit because it was so halfassed and required you to get to the computer for so much content anyways, which kinda defeated the POINT of having a book.

Not that there's anything cheat-book-worthy in FF9 anyways. About the only thing that would've been useful was a chart of what gear taught what abilities.

[JB0]

And it's just been brought to my attention that the original Metroid game turned 25 this month.

Happy birthday, Samus!

[bluemax151]

reeoyuy is correct. Although I've heard they're very good, I never played any of the Persona series, because playing half the game as a Japanese school sim sounds really dull.

The older Persona titles have little to do with school simulation. Persona 2 Innocent Sin is being released (ported) for PSP 9/20 and it's the first time it's been officially available in English so you might want to give that a spin. Technically there's also an unofficial port of the JPN PS1 version of Innocent Sin available with an English patch online also..

I'm actually just the opposite of you, I only play the Persona titles. My choice has more to due with time constraints though.

People were outraged when it first hit because it was so halfassed and required you to get to the computer for so much content anyways, which kinda defeated the POINT of having a book.

Thanks for reminding me of that bullsh*t, I almost forgot about it Not that it really matters though since I usually get the guides to look at the art but I like to read them on the pot sometimes too ya know.

[Repiv_Onex]

Well, talking about Persona, just saw this Persona 4 news, HD Fighting Game Based on Persona 4 Announced.

"Newly announced today is Persona 4: The Ultimate in Mayonaka, an HD fighter based on the Persona 4 game, characters, and story. The BlazBlue team at Arc System Works is handling this project, with direct involvement from the Persona team. The game is due for release in arcades (in Japan, obviously) in Spring of 2012, with Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 versions to follow."

http://shoryuken.com/2011/08/30/hd-fighting-game-based-on-persona-4-announced/

Always love the SMT series, Digital Devil Saga and Persona are my favorites.

[Fly4victory]

Has anyone wondered what is happening in certain video games as far as Political Correctness or even revision history. Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb the bad guys were Nazis and wore swastikas. Yes, it is a horrid game, Staff of Kings, and ruins the Indy franchise but the baddies are "Germans" and the swastikas are replaced with Iron Crosses. Indy doesn't even do a quarter of the fighting moves in Staff of Kings compared to Emperor's Tomb. I wonder what I will get when I receive Captain America will the Nazis be totally replaced by Hydra.

Its like the Nazis agent in the movie OSS 117 said, It's the 1950s we don't always have to be the bad guys.

[Warmaker]

Well, talking about Persona, just saw this Persona 4 news, HD Fighting Game Based on Persona 4 Announced.

"Newly announced today is Persona 4: The Ultimate in Mayonaka, an HD fighter based on the Persona 4 game, characters, and story. The BlazBlue team at Arc System Works is handling this project, with direct involvement from the Persona team. The game is due for release in arcades (in Japan, obviously) in Spring of 2012, with Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 versions to follow."

http://shoryuken.com/2011/08/30/hd-fighting-game-based-on-persona-4-announced/

Always love the SMT series, Digital Devil Saga and Persona are my favorites.

and no new Persona RPG taking advantage of the PS3 or 360?

Has anyone wondered what is happening in certain video games as far as Political Correctness or even revision history. Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb the bad guys were Nazis and wore swastikas. Yes, it is a horrid game, Staff of Kings, and ruins the Indy franchise but the baddies are "Germans" and the swastikas are replaced with Iron Crosses. Indy doesn't even do a quarter of the fighting moves in Staff of Kings compared to Emperor's Tomb. I wonder what I will get when I receive Captain America will the Nazis be totally replaced by Hydra.

Its like the Nazis agent in the movie OSS 117 said, It's the 1950s we don't always have to be the bad guys.

I'm a stickler for historical accuracy.

But if you really want to get technical, in the field during the 30s and WWII, you wouldn't see German troops with big, red armbands and swastikas. The swastikas were there on all their military uniforms as parts of devices and emblems. But the big red armbands? No, definitely not on the field. Even their vehicles all had the "Balkenkreuz." Only their aircraft had swastikas on the vertical stabilizers. Even the Waffen SS utilized the Balkenkreuz to mark their vehicles.

As far as Captain America, the recent movie really went out of its way to replace Nazi icons with Hydra, though I must admit not knowing much of Capt.America and Red Skull to begin with... it's just I remember seeing comics in the 80s that showed Red Skull with the familiar red armband & swastika. The movie did start with showing them, but drifted off into copout mode with Hydra and its emblems. It would've been more sinister if they kept it to the original icons.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Warmaker

[Dynaman]

but the baddies are "Germans" and the swastikas are replaced with Iron Crosses.

I don't know about the specifics of this game, but many times this is done so the game can get released in Germany without needing to remove all the nazi symbols. It is possible to get exceptions (for historical documentary purposes, etc...) but it is an expensive pain in the butt from what I've heard. The Indy games, not being truly historical, would have a hard time getting the exception to begin with.

[JB0]

and no new Persona RPG taking advantage of the PS3 or 360?

I'm a stickler for historical accuracy.

But if you really want to get technical, in the field during the 30s and WWII, you wouldn't see German troops with big, red armbands and swastikas. The swastikas were there on all their military uniforms as parts of devices and emblems. But the big red armbands? No, definitely not on the field. Even their vehicles all had the "Balkenkreuz." Only their aircraft had swastikas on the vertical stabilizers. Even the Waffen SS utilized the Balkenkreuz to mark their vehicles.

As far as Captain America, the recent movie really went out of its way to replace Nazi icons with Hydra, though I must admit not knowing much of Capt.America and Red Skull to begin with... it's just I remember seeing comics in the 80s that showed Red Skull with the familiar red armband & swastika. The movie did start with showing them, but drifted off into copout mode with Hydra and its emblems. It would've been more sinister if they kept it to the original icons.

Pretty sure Captain America was sanitized for your protection. Or rather, for the protection of your child in the toy aisle(no one's gonna buy their kid Nazi action figures).

Same reason the bad guys used disintegrator ray guns instead of kinetic impactor guns.

He originated as flat-out WW2 propaganda. Hence why he died riding a missile into the arctic at the end of the war.

[renegadeleader1]

I don't know about the specifics of this game, but many times this is done so the game can get released in Germany without needing to remove all the nazi symbols. It is possible to get exceptions (for historical documentary purposes, etc...) but it is an expensive pain in the butt from what I've heard. The Indy games, not being truly historical, would have a hard time getting the exception to begin with.

This is exactly why those changes were made. Staff of kings was made as a tie in to the last Indiana Jones film and was meant to be a world wide release. Emperor's Tomb was made with little fan fare and the north american market in mind so they didn't have to be as "culturally sensitive".

[Wanzerfan]

Right now I'm about to face off against General Viper in Fort Dragonia (Another World), which means I'm about to encounter the first major plot twist in Chrono Cross.

I'll put in a spoiler tag, for those few who haven't played the game. It's a very interesting one, and Chrono Cross is probably the only game I know that has it.

Serge's (or whatever you chose to name the main character as) soul actually swaps places with Lynx's (a villian in the game), and has to go through the game in that character's body for a while; think the original Freaky Friday).

[kanedaestes]

Lol aren't you late to that by oh I don't know 10 years???!!!?! I still love that game, one of my fav RPGs along with Chrono Trigger. Wish they would do the 3rd one they have been teasing about since Cross

[kanedaestes]

So I have been playing FF13 again, yes i know the hate that everyone has towards it but I liked it. It isn't as good as the older ones but still a good game. ESPECIALLY if you know how to properly play it (as I had purchased the hardback guide book long ago but didn't really use it). Granted i did pretty decent before but now the game doesn't feel like it takes as long to progress through.

[Warmaker]

He originated as flat-out WW2 propaganda. Hence why he died riding a missile into the arctic at the end of the war.

[Wanzerfan]

Lol aren't you late to that by oh I don't know 10 years???!!!?! I still love that game, one of my fav RPGs along with Chrono Trigger. Wish they would do the 3rd one they have been teasing about since Cross

Yeah, I too have been waiting for Chrono Break to come out since I saw a teaser in a gameing magazine.

Too bad, since I heard (I'm not sure on this front, I know someone will come along and clear it up) most of the people who worked on Chrono Cross jumped ship to Namco, and after the Xenosaga debacle, I'm not suprised that there hasn't been a good RPG that I've seen come out of that company. Especially after they merged with Ban-Dai.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Wanzerfan