My original Macross/Robotech live-action film - "Midnight Sky&quo

[integrase]

I first want to say that I am well aware that Robotech is combined and edited story. I created my original live action fan-film ("Midnight Sky") very much as a nostalgic tribute to my childhood and the times I recall sitting in front of the TV glued to every frame of Robotech.

The film began as a reaction to the announcement of the plans to make a live-action Robotech feature film, but in the end became much more to me. To watch my film and read MY STORY, please visit Project Robotech

I hope you enjoy it for what it is, and I welcome any feedback. I truly hope it is something Robotech and Macross fans alike can enjoy. Thanks for your time and consideration.

If you'd like to join our "wolfpack" please go to Facebook or Twitter and LIKE/FOLLOW us: ProjectRobotech

Sincerely,

Tana

Edited May 30, 2010 by integrase

[Vepariga]

Regardless of its 'robotech' basis, Its a nice short film,dont see many live action pieces so I found this to be quite,I dunno,moody,has a certain ambiance that I liked,well done anyway,its good work.

[Macross_Fanboy]

This was pretty good, especially the narrative and soundtrack, soothed my nerves after playing some rough matches of MW2. Was the canopy sequence before take off done with an actual scale mock-up? That part interested me a lot.

[Mr March]

Honest opinion, I wasn't crazy about it.

Having said that, I will make a few comments. This short film was an honest attempt to build a real dramatic short story and that's exactly the right mindset from which to create something worth telling. About 99% of all fan films and fan fiction are dead boring filler made for the sole purpose of justifying overblown, unengaged action sequences. Your film is definitely something different. Although the feel of the short film doesn't really remind me much of Macross (except possibly some parts of Macross Zero) I did appreciate the consistency of the tone set throughout. The short was edited in an interesting way using tried and true black and white footage with piecemeal shots and a fitting score. It felt like a partially recalled memory, which is what you set out to do.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Mr March

[integrase]

Honest opinion, I wasn't crazy about it.

Having said that, I will make a few comments. This short film was an honest attempt to build a real dramatic short story and that's exactly the right mindset from which to create something worth telling. About 99% of all fan films and fan fiction are dead boring filler made for the sole purpose of justifying overblown, unengaged action sequences. Your film is definitely something different. Although the feel of the short film doesn't really remind me much of Macross (except possibly some parts of Macross Zero) I did appreciate the consistency of the tone set throughout. The short was edited in an interesting way using tried and true black and white footage with piecemeal shots and a fitting score. It felt like a partially recalled memory, which is what you set out to do.

Honesty is all I'd ask for, so thank you guys for your feedback. I know it's not perfect but still happy with the final film. I love hearing other perspectives because I'm hearing some very interesting observations.

Re: Cockpit - If you notice in the credits, I thank the Empire State Aerosciences Museum (www.esam.org). We actually went there to shoot in real fighter cockpits. The working cockpit is a Mig, and the more close up shots (Ace attack) were in a cockpit simulator. The museum was so good to us. I'll be releasing some behind the scenes videos, including a lot of the ESAM stuff...so please join my Robotech Facebook Fan Page or Twitters so you can see it.

Edited April 9, 2010 by integrase

[Kronnang Dunn]

Excellent dramatic short film. Man... you really can act very well...

[Knight26]

Last I checked ESAMs only MiG was a MiG-21, with, need to check the model but I believe it had the forward hinging wind screen. Are you sure you weren't in the Aggressor F-5? Beyond that interesting film, I'll have to watch it with a more critical eye again later, very surreal and art house which can be good. Was this just for fun or was this a class project, if it is a class project you should do well.

[integrase]

Last I checked ESAMs only MiG was a MiG-21, with, need to check the model but I believe it had the forward hinging wind screen. Are you sure you weren't in the Aggressor F-5? Beyond that interesting film, I'll have to watch it with a more critical eye again later, very surreal and art house which can be good. Was this just for fun or was this a class project, if it is a class project you should do well.

Thanks for the comments guys. I appreciate it. And I STAND CORRECTED regarding the MiG. It was indeed the Agressor F-5. But just so you know I'm not totally crazy, I recall that this F-5 was used in the actual movie Top Gun to simulate MiGs.

"The aircraft used for the fictional MiG-28s are Northrop F-5E (single seat) and F (two seat) Tiger IIs, which were used by TOPGUN as aggressor aircraft." - Trivia from Top Gun IMDB page.

Thanks again for the comments and for watching the film. If you'd like to help me fulfill this dream of becoming a Veritech Fighter Pilot, you can subscribe to FB, Twiiter or any of those services. I'll be posting behind the scenes and more! In fact, we just put up a Minmei music video up at www.projectrobotech.com.

I'll be back here periodically to answer any other questions anyone might have. I appreciate the support!

Tana

[Jasonc]

I thought the film was quite clean and edited well. It had more of an emotional feel than most fans would expect, but I think that aspect of it is interesting, and people who are into short films will appreciate the effort and work involved in this production. Congrats on a job well done and I hope you guys do more in the future. Even if it's not Robotech, the style of the cinematography is cool.

[chillyche]

Tana -- Saw your film on facebook a bit ago (not too long ago, obviously). Don't know if it's the same guy, but I know a David Hou doing production in NYC, too. DramaFever dude? I liked the approach you took. A lot of fan films want to tie into the main storyline, or recreate stuff, or focus on the action or mecha or what have you, and I like that you focused on the heart -- a character and his experience. The fragmented storytelling works in the short medium, and helps you tell a story with a minimum of set pieces and characters. I'll be honest, I was hoping for a bit more of a reveal towards the end, but c'est la vie. I'd love to see what you've got cooking up next. We may even run into each other, if you're also doing prod work in the city.

[integrase]

I thought the film was quite clean and edited well. It had more of an emotional feel than most fans would expect, but I think that aspect of it is interesting, and people who are into short films will appreciate the effort and work involved in this production. Congrats on a job well done and I hope you guys do more in the future. Even if it's not Robotech, the style of the cinematography is cool.

Appreciate the thoughtful comments. Thanks.

[integrase]

Tana -- Saw your film on facebook a bit ago (not too long ago, obviously). Don't know if it's the same guy, but I know a David Hou doing production in NYC, too. DramaFever dude? I liked the approach you took. A lot of fan films want to tie into the main storyline, or recreate stuff, or focus on the action or mecha or what have you, and I like that you focused on the heart -- a character and his experience. The fragmented storytelling works in the short medium, and helps you tell a story with a minimum of set pieces and characters. I'll be honest, I was hoping for a bit more of a reveal towards the end, but c'est la vie. I'd love to see what you've got cooking up next. We may even run into each other, if you're also doing prod work in the city.

Probably the same guy. Not many David Hou's doing production in NYC, so very likely. Not sure who/what DramaFever is.

I appreciate your comments. Out of curiosity, when you say "more of a reveal" do you mean perhaps not enough pay off? i.e. twist to the story, or finality? Or do you literally mean maybe seeing more of Miriya the Ace pilot?

To give everyone and update: So, will have a new version of "Midnight Sky" out soon with perhaps new score, subtle changes. Also, if you haven't seen our Dance Video Extravaganza, it's up now on the site.

We are having a screening in NYC this Sunday from 2-3PM at Anthology Film Archives on 2nd and 2nd (St) if anyone in the NY area wants to come out to meet myself and some of the cast and crew. Just email me at tana@projectrobotech.com if you'd like a seat. The event is free, but need to collect RSVPs.

Until next time!

[chillyche]

too bad, i probably won't be back in the city in time for the screening. oh wells.

[fifbeat]

Good job. Much more imagination than a lot of original Macross related stuff on youtube.

Keep it up. You have some good cinematic experience.

[505thAirborne]

I thought it was pretty damn good, Had a very clean & professional feel to it. Dialogue was well written & performed Cool they had permission to use a Real cockpit to film from. Overall original & not some AMV with video clips & bad music!!

[integrase]

Added new version with updated credit sequence and better color correction. No major changes, but without annoying YouTube Pop Ups etc. You can see it at either www.projectrobotech.com or directly here on YouTube:

Thanks again for the encouragement. I hope it works. Will keep going at it and releasing some other fun films. Let me know if you have any questions!

[chillyche]

Oh, I never answered the payoff quesiton...

I guess my thoughts are that you have this fragmented, dreamlike presentation, and it feels like despite being a non-linear narrative, we're building to this MOMENT. And the moment is definitely the Miriya moment. But for the most part, everything is shot so tightly and intimately, I feel like I never quite get the perspective I want. In my mind, there's a shot right after we see Miriya's face, or maybe we see her, we see him, then we see a wide shot of her Q-Rau and his VF-1, frozen in a seriously overcranked slomo shot, then, finally, she's gone.

That's what I want to see in there. It is a little payoff for getting to see the mecha and really contextualizing it as something in the universe (incidentally, I felt like film would have worked as Macross or Robotech, and hopefully fans of either will see that the story you've told doesn't damage either mythology). But it's also ramps up that dramatic tension. If I really see her close enough to him to tear his fighter apart, I'm like, "whoaaaaaaa..." and when she leaves, I'm like, "whoooooaaaaaaaaa." Because I'm very articulate, apparently.

[integrase]

Oh, I never answered the payoff quesiton...

I guess my thoughts are that you have this fragmented, dreamlike presentation, and it feels like despite being a non-linear narrative, we're building to this MOMENT. And the moment is definitely the Miriya moment. But for the most part, everything is shot so tightly and intimately, I feel like I never quite get the perspective I want. In my mind, there's a shot right after we see Miriya's face, or maybe we see her, we see him, then we see a wide shot of her Q-Rau and his VF-1, frozen in a seriously overcranked slomo shot, then, finally, she's gone.

That's what I want to see in there. It is a little payoff for getting to see the mecha and really contextualizing it as something in the universe (incidentally, I felt like film would have worked as Macross or Robotech, and hopefully fans of either will see that the story you've told doesn't damage either mythology). But it's also ramps up that dramatic tension. If I really see her close enough to him to tear his fighter apart, I'm like, "whoaaaaaaa..." and when she leaves, I'm like, "whoooooaaaaaaaaa." Because I'm very articulate, apparently.

Totally agree. I definitely had in mind exactly what you are describing, in fact wanted to have an exterior shot showing the Rau just feet from his cockpit from the side. The two staring at each other. Also, as you said, a master shot showing the damaged VF-1 floating helplessly and the Rau slowly pulling away and then flying off and leaving him alone.

Unfortunately, Visual Effects were limited and were a major hurdle for me. If I had to do it over again would have searched for Visual Effects artists here on Macross World or any of the Robotech forums. I'm happy with what my artist made for me, but to ask someone to work for free and create multiple shots is tough...need someone passionate about Macross/Robotech. I had to cut maybe six visual effects from my original.

Nice feedback, it is definitely well taken.

[big F]

I like it. the whole thing feels very intimate, kinda like what I imagine fighter jocks think about when on long missions.

I once saw a documentry about Spitfire and Huricane pilots durring WWII and one said that there were so many missions so often that when they were not on missions their life was so important to them, its what they held on to that kept them sane. So I can imagine that with lack of sleep and such reality would be come a bit blurred around the edges, You'd be left with moments of did it really happen like that or was that a dream of what actually happened.

I hope you do well with this and will keep and eye on your site for updates.

[Zinjo]

I liked the personal nature of the story. Something SF writers seem to forget about and the necessary tether that keeps audiences engaged in any story.

The story was disjointed, but not in an effective way. When doing a story relying on multiple flashbacks, its a good idea to purposefully plot them out instead of "inserting" them at various points. A flashback must have a trigger and often we never saw the triggers for the pilot's flashbacks, so they came without any warning and thus left us either confused or jolted.

I liked the low budget way you simulated the battle. The sequence was effective and didn't need any fancy FX to pull it off. Most importantly, the same result was achieved for the audience; we knew what had just happened without ever seeing it.

I question the plausibility of a pilot taking off his helmet in deep space. That stretched reality to Macross 7 levels, IMO! I would have been equally satisfied with close ups of the face behind the sheild showing the emotions the pilot was going through.

I realize the RT series relied heavily on voice overs, but in real film, you want to use it only when absolutely necessary. If you have to tell the audience the hero is scared, your actor is doing a poor job... It is very much like George Lucas insisting that his Oscar nominated actress, Natalie Portman, say the words, "Anakin, you're breaking my heart", when the audience can clearly see it on her face... It diminishes the dramatic impact of a scene. Voice overs can be redundant to the visuals if one isn't careful.

One general screewriting maxim is:

"Don't say it, when you can show it"

The Voice over became the writer telling the audience the story, where I'd rather it had been the audience's window into the pilot's mind during his screen time. Almost like the viewers are eaves dropping on an internal conversation the pilot was having in his head. I would have found that an enhancement to the intimacy already presented in the visual narrative of the film.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Zinjo

[integrase]

I like it. the whole thing feels very intimate, kinda like what I imagine fighter jocks think about when on long missions.

I once saw a documentry about Spitfire and Huricane pilots durring WWII and one said that there were so many missions so often that when they were not on missions their life was so important to them, its what they held on to that kept them sane. So I can imagine that with lack of sleep and such reality would be come a bit blurred around the edges, You'd be left with moments of did it really happen like that or was that a dream of what actually happened.

I hope you do well with this and will keep and eye on your site for updates.

With such a short amount of time, wanted to establish that loneliness and connection with life on earth, but it was difficult. I probably would have used score a little bit more to push that. Appreciate the thoughts and hope it does well too! Please share it if you can to anyone who you think would enjoy it!

[integrase]

I liked the personal nature of the story. Something SF writers seem to forget about and the necessary tether that keeps audiences engaged in any story.

The story was disjointed, but not in an effective way. When doing a story relying on multiple flashbacks, its a good idea to purposefully plot them out instead of "inserting" them at various points. A flashback must have a trigger and often we never saw the triggers for the pilot's flashbacks, so they came without any warning and thus left us either confused or jolted.

I liked the low budget way you simulated the battle. The sequence was effective and didn't need any fancy FX to pull it off. Most importantly, the same result was achieved for the audience; we knew what had just happened without ever seeing it.

I question the plausibility of a pilot taking off his helmet in deep space. That stretched reality to Macross 7 levels, IMO! I would have been equally satisfied with close ups of the face behind the sheild showing the emotions the pilot was going through.

I realize the RT series relied heavily on voice overs, but in real film, you want to use it only when absolutely necessary. If you have to tell the audience the hero is scared, your actor is doing a poor job... It is very much like George Lucas insisting that his Oscar nominated actress, Natalie Portman, say the words, "Anakin, you're breaking my heart", when the audience can clearly see it on her face... It diminishes the dramatic impact of a scene. Voice overs can be redundant to the visuals if one isn't careful.

One general screewriting maxim is:

"Don't say it, when you can show it"

The Voice over became the writer telling the audience the story, where I'd rather it had been the audience's window into the pilot's mind during his screen time. Almost like the viewers are eaves dropping on an internal conversation the pilot was having in his head. I would have found that an enhancement to the intimacy already presented in the visual narrative of the film.

You made me laugh pretty hard with the helmet comment. Hey, just like they gave Cameron a hard time about the seemingly 'open air' cockpit of his helicopter in Avatar, there's a bulkhead, it's sealed off! The helmet has other weapons and communication uses. : )

I do appreciate all of your comments particularly the triggers for the flashbacks. The difference with my film is that I wanted both storylines to have equal weight, although they appear as flashbacks they weren't meant to be. It was supposed to be two stories being told real time, but I don't think that came across too well.

Yeah, VO was a tough call and agree that it should be minimized as much as possible. Check this one link out:

This film was a big inspiration, where the VO plays a different role. I didn't exactly emulate the style, but once you see it, you'll get the drift.

ZINJO, are you a filmmaker as well? Your comments lead me to believe you are in the biz. Thanks for your comments!

[integrase]

Just posted my first behind-the-scenes clip. Will have several more. Check the first one "GOOSH! THAT HURTS!!" at www.projectrobotech.com

Ah, the joys of working with your wife...

Edited May 30, 2010 by integrase

[Zinjo]

ZINJO, are you a filmmaker as well? Your comments lead me to believe you are in the biz. Thanks for your comments!

Not per se.

I know several people in the industry and am an aspiring screenwriter (aka unproduced screenwriter).

So I know a little bit.

You made me laugh pretty hard with the helmet comment. Hey, just like they gave Cameron a hard time about the seemingly 'open air' cockpit of his helicopter in Avatar, there's a bulkhead, it's sealed off! The helmet has other weapons and communication uses. : )

True, but if you read his script it is mentioned, unfortunately it's a throw away line in the movie that most people miss.

I do appreciate all of your comments particularly the triggers for the flashbacks. The difference with my film is that I wanted both storylines to have equal weight, although they appear as flashbacks they weren't meant to be. It was supposed to be two stories being told real time, but I don't think that came across too well.

All flashbacks carry equal weight with the active narrative of the story, as they are supposed to contribute to the story as a whole. The flashbacks need to be relevant to what is currently going on with the protagonist, otherwise it's just a gimmick that dilutes the potency of the dramatic narrative. Showing parallels in flashbacks can work, but the key is that they must tell something about the protagonist's character that is relevant or insightful to what he is experiencing or how he is able to cope with his current situation (in this case his flight mission).

Otherwise it would have been better to do two separate films instead of trying to shoehorn two separate, unrelated stories into one. Focus on the "now" and what pushes the story forward.

I suspect this is why Hollywood really avoids flashbacks these days. It had become a lazy way to tell stories as opposed to forcing writers and directors to stay current with the situations in the film and using events or dialog to explain past situations.

Avoid gimmicks. There are enough big name Hollywood directors using gimmicks these days and their films may make money, but will never be considered "classic" cinema in 50 years!

Edited May 4, 2010 by Zinjo

[integrase]

Have a new behind the scenes clip up: THE FISH HEAD SCENE!!!

[integrase]

One more behind the scenes film. ROBOT TROUBLE!

[chillyche]

I would disagree that Hollywood has shied away from flashbacks. The popularity of LOST reinvigorated the flashback. I WOULD agree that nine times out of ten the flashback is used lazily, much like the voice-over. Fight Club is a good example of a great film that employed both techniques in a classy manner. There have been a lot of examples of non-linear storytelling that have been successful as well. Both in recent history and throughout cinematic history. However, the flashback itself can be a case of lazily inserting new information, or providing motivation and characterization that ought to have already been included. Or is often something too literal. Tana's use of flashback feels less like flashbacks, and more like non-linear storytelling. The two stories are somewhat independent, and one is not used to explain the other, though they sort of crescendo at the same time. I suppose one could compare the two stories to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, or The English Patient, or The Fall, or similar films where two different stories are entwined within one larger narrative, although, in the case of The English Patient and The Fall both stories are about storytellers. I dunno.

I guess I just wanted to mention that Hollywood has fallen in love with the flashback (and the flash forward... they even named a show flash forward) recently, and I think it's a mistake. It was cool for the first season of Lost, and then quickly became a tiresome gimmick that instead of fleshing out characters, served to waste time, and present the characters really overcoming the same challenges over and over.

[Zinjo]

I would disagree that Hollywood has shied away from flashbacks. The popularity of LOST reinvigorated the flashback. I WOULD agree that nine times out of ten the flashback is used lazily, much like the voice-over. Fight Club is a good example of a great film that employed both techniques in a classy manner. There have been a lot of examples of non-linear storytelling that have been successful as well. Both in recent history and throughout cinematic history. However, the flashback itself can be a case of lazily inserting new information, or providing motivation and characterization that ought to have already been included. Or is often something too literal. Tana's use of flashback feels less like flashbacks, and more like non-linear storytelling. The two stories are somewhat independent, and one is not used to explain the other, though they sort of crescendo at the same time. I suppose one could compare the two stories to Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, or The English Patient, or The Fall, or similar films where two different stories are entwined within one larger narrative, although, in the case of The English Patient and The Fall both stories are about storytellers. I dunno.

I guess I just wanted to mention that Hollywood has fallen in love with the flashback (and the flash forward... they even named a show flash forward) recently, and I think it's a mistake. It was cool for the first season of Lost, and then quickly became a tiresome gimmick that instead of fleshing out characters, served to waste time, and present the characters really overcoming the same challenges over and over.

OK, let me put it this way. Try selling a script to a studio with a lot of flashbacks in it...Good Luck!

TV shows are not the same as film and what may be acceptable for a TV show is not what works in the film industry. I wouldn't say studios refuse to do films with flashbacks, but rather they avoid them actively. If a director decides to have a scene rewritten as a flash back during development of a film, that is much different than a script purchased from a writer with a flash back in it. Essentially the general rule of thumb is for writers to avoid flashbacks unless they are absolutely necessary for the narrative and even then triple check to be sure it couldn't be written any other way.

Another thing to remember is that films have "sub-plots" that run parallel to the main story and must intersect with the main story by the third act. What appears to the viewer as two separate parallel stories are in fact the main plot and the subplot of a story.

There have been many examples of non-linear films being produced. "Memento" is the one that comes to my mind first. The thing is that as interesting as Memento is to watch, it is not and was not commercially successful because it was difficult for Joe Sixpack to follow. That fact doesn't diminish the film at all, but when a studio is trying to recover its investment in a film, this becomes very important. To write a script like that takes a lot of skill and experience as a screenwriter to do it well enough as Memento was.

Another situation is the studio system seeing increasing anemia in the writing pool. With studios and producers preferring "known" talent and directors writing their own material (which often times produces less than stellar results - it's like a plumber trying to re-wire his house. He can do it, but the results will be clumsy compared to that of a professional electrician ), focused, professionally crafted scripts by "outsiders" are not being read as much as they could be.

The writing community sees the need for fresh blood and many accomplished writers are making efforts to develop that new breed, but if their is no money or success to be had from screewriting, eventually that talent pool will dry up and we'll be left with increasingly poor films coming out of the major studios; or we'll see many outstanding indie films that could have been greater if they had a better budget.

[chillyche]

Heh. Memento was enough of a critical darling, though, to land Nolan with the Batman Franchise, so there's always that.

But yeah, for years flashbacks have been considered corny. It's basically lazy writing to be like, "oh yeah, this happened before, and its important, so lemme show it here." We see a lot of temporal jumps though, often times, where, say, we open with character A as child, or in the past, an inciting event occurs, and then we jump forward 5, 10, 20 years to the aftermath and or end result of said event. Which isn't a flashback per se.

But, I would suggest that Hollywood is unoriginal enough now that whatever sold last year, sells this year. So, if some producer finds a LOST-style script, it wouldn't be hard to drum up money, if they attach the right talent. Or if the project can be tied to a franchise. Actually, speaking of Christopher Nolan, Batman Begins is loaded with flashback sequences, which, frankly, I don't think help the film at all.

Anyway, how off topic is this getting?

But yeah, I do agree that the rule of thumb is: no flashbacks, no voice-overs. And for good reason.

And while we're speaking about flashbacks, versus nonlinear storytelling, I will say that there were a few episodes of BSG that were slightly non-linear, and I liked them. And then there were a few episodes that had straight up flashbacks, and I pretty much hated them. Whether there is a definable difference between shuffling your chronology and having a flashback, I'm not sure, but I definitely know sometimes it works, and other times it's WACK.

[Zinjo]

Flashbacks in TV seem fairly common, however you'll be hard pressed to see a major studio release with one.

Abrams' Star Trek had linear back stories that as you said "jump" to later eras. That seems to be the acceptable norm instead of flashbacks. It's also much more difficult to "cheat" that way. Integrating a back story efficiently into a film is more of a challenge when you can't rely on flashbacks...

[chillyche]

Flashbacks in TV seem fairly common, however you'll be hard pressed to see a major studio release with one.

Abrams' Star Trek had linear back stories that as you said "jump" to later eras. That seems to be the acceptable norm instead of flashbacks. It's also much more difficult to "cheat" that way. Integrating a back story efficiently into a film is more of a challenge when you can't rely on flashbacks...

Although, when Spock Prime mind melds with Kirk 2.0, we get flashbacks.

[integrase]

Special THANK YOU video for my supporters. Hope you enjoy the film, and of course, THANK YOU for your help!