The Underrated/Overrated SF films thread....

[Dynaman]

Serenity is designed to work with or without the series though.

Any talk of it being over rated is just false, however.

Parts of it, like the death of Book, don't have the same impact without having seen the series (it's like Roy's death in DYRL, just not quite the same without having seen SDFM first).

I also count Serenity as one of the best scifi of all time.

The Matrix - Overated. I liked it, but I could easily tell that the movie makers just dashed a bunch of mumbo jumbo together - and didn't really have anything to say.

First Sequal - overated, like someone else said, this film can't be reviled enough.

Second Sequal - Parts of this I liked, OK - all I really liked was watching the Mechs fighting...

[Radd]

Hmm... Fifth element....

overrated?

underrated?

I almost never hear people talking about Fifth Element. A movie can't be overrated if people aren't even talking about it to begin with. It can be underrated, but I don't think that's the case. I loved it up to the end, and then was really disappointed with the last 10-15 minutes where it seemed like they ran out of time and so tacked on an ending. On the whole the movie is worth seeing, but not a cinematic landmark or anything. And that's about where it seems to fall on the radar.

[taksraven]

he doesn't become the leader of the clan, he's their pet and it's made clear that he did not sleep with the wife, and he gets shot up by the Gatling which only stopped firing because the imperial army stops firing.

Also, last samurai, like Gladiator and Dances with Wolves and a host of other historical fiction, never made any airs about being historically accurate.

It's still a crap movie but you don't need to make up sh1t to sell us on the movie's crappiness.

The number of films where they bend over backwards to be historically accurate and then, just for dramatic purposes they screw around with "facts", bugs the hell out of me.

Titanic is a classic example, where they really worked hard to get the accuracy right about the actual sinking of the ship itself, and then they mucked around with some of the "historical figures" aboard the ship just to suit their dramatic purposes. (I liked the fact that the descendents of one ships crewmembers in particular jacked up on how he was portrayed and protested)

I was watching the film "The Other Boleyn Girl" the other night (nothing else on), and the execution of one character made it seem like he was a real wimp, screaming and crying as he was dragged to the block. Then, when you look up the actual historical account of the fate of this person, and you find out that he did go to the block, but calmly and bravely, and before his execution he gave a long speech from the platform to the gathered audience explaining his opinion of affairs. And there was not supposed to be any booing and jeering from the audience in reality like they had in the film.

It always bugs the hell out of me....

Taksraven

[anime52k8]

It always bugs the hell out of me....

Taksraven

It always bugs the hell out of me when people piss and moan about how a period movie isn't historically accurate when it's a F*cking movie. It's Entertainment, not an educational film.

[Gubaba]

It always bugs the hell out of me....

Taksraven

Historical accuracy is overrated. Look at Shakespeare's Henry IV, Part 1. Nearly none of it is accurate, but it's probably his most perfect play.

[taksraven]

It's Entertainment, not an educational film.

That's the studio execs talking.

You fail to see my point. Why do they bother to go to so much trouble to be accurate and then stuff it up all in the name of "entertainment".

Going back to Titanic, I know that Jack and Rose were not real. I know that they were put in the film just in case the recreation of one of worst disasters in maritime history was not enough to keep the audience engaged, but the film "A Night to Remember" from the 1950's was just as engaging and much more historically accurate.

I'm not saying that all historical films have to be 100% accurate, they should just have a disclaimer at the end, esp. if they modified events dramatically, that says "Such and such did not happen this way, the filmmakers changed it because they are LIARS full of SHIT!"

So there.....

Taksraven

[Agent ONE]

UNDERRATED:

Golgo 13: The Professional

Most anime fans aren't even aware of this title (though they are aware of its sequel: Queen Bee and the Manga).

On of my favorite movies of all time.

[Tober]

I'm not saying that all historical films have to be 100% accurate, they should just have a disclaimer at the end, esp. if they modified events dramatically, that says "Such and such did not happen this way, the filmmakers changed it because they are LIARS full of SHIT!"

That's like the opening statement of Fargo.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Firefly was one of the best sci-fi shows on television in recent years. If you weren't a fan of the show (or never watched the show), then it's a good (but not life-changing) movie. If you were a fan of the show, though, it was a fantastic way of both wrapping up the TV series while setting them up for new adventures (if only in the fans' imaginations). Serenity is Firefly's swansong, and it's always going to be loved for that reason. I don't think that's overrating it; it's not like people are calling it the greatest sci-fi film ever or the Citizen Kane of a younger generation or anything.

It was a good series sad to say ahead of its time. By about 5 years. The problem I have with it is that just about everyone puts on a pedestal along with evangelion and that nothing can compare to it.

UNDERRATED:

Golgo 13: The Professional

Most anime fans aren't even aware of this title (though they are aware of its sequel: Queen Bee and the Manga).

On of my favorite movies of all time.

Is that the one with the sniper shot through the building?

Under rated: Crying freeman.

Edited April 7, 2010 by BeyondTheGrave

[Agent ONE]

...

Is that the one with the sniper shot through the building?

...

YES!

[taksraven]

YES!

Its also the one where the sniper shoots the guy who is trying to commit suicide by jumping off a building anyway. Isn't it. Good film, only the CGI bit with the helicopter looks really creaky now.

Taksraven

[Agent ONE]

Its also the one where the sniper shoots the guy who is trying to commit suicide by jumping off a building anyway. Isn't it. Good film, only the CGI bit with the helicopter looks really creaky now.

Taksraven

THATS IT!

yes the CG did not age well.

[Gui]

Overrated:

Avatar, Matrix (all of them), Star Wars (all of them), Transformers (all of them, including the incoming one, and although I loved them all, even the incoming one), everything after Alien 2 and Terminator 2,... basically, everything which explodes the box office with SPFX but no plot and/or characters and/or ideas and/or [you get the point]

Underrated

Dark City, District 9, Screamers, The Thing, Gattaca, Total Recall, Strange Days, Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, War of the Worlds (Spielberg's one: underated because many spectators missed the point of the director IMO) and some french movies you probably never heard about such as Atomik Circus or Immortel Ad Vitam

Some other titles may come to my mind at a later time...

[Castel]

Overrated :

Transformers, both of them.

Is there really people who enjoyed that crap ? For real ?

Underrated :

Gattaca, a masterpiece.

[Dynaman]

I'm not saying that all historical films have to be 100% accurate, they should just have a disclaimer at the end, esp. if they modified events dramatically, that says "Such and such did not happen this way, the filmmakers changed it because they are LIARS full of SHIT!"

Most historical films do have this. If they say the following.

Based on a true story - There might have been real people with the same names as some of the characters. Don't count on it though.

Inspired by real events - This movie is a total fantasy

No claim at all - pure fiction.

(then there is one more thing that write for films that actually try to be accurate, but I can't remember it right now)

[eugimon]

Most historical films do have this. If they say the following.

Based on a true story - There might have been real people with the same names as some of the characters. Don't count on it though.

braveheart

Inspired by real events - This movie is a total fantasy

300, gladiator

No claim at all - pure fiction.

last samurai

(then there is one more thing that write for films that actually try to be accurate, but I can't remember it right now)

schindler's list

[Ghost Train]

Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, underrated.

Final Fantasy: Advent Children, overrated.

Discuss.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Final Fantasy: Advent Children, overrated.

I'm partial to agree. Outside of some sweet fight scenes there is no real story.

Overrated :

Transformers, both of them.

Is there really people who enjoyed that crap ? For real ?

I liked them. Even though there were scenes that should have been cut (like the parents adventure on campus) they were enjoyable.

[Dynaman]

Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, underrated.

Cliched characters, new age mumbo jumbo plot, just not for me. CG Animation was top notch though.

It also suffers from one of the worst tension killers a film can commit - making it obvious that the afterlife is a great place to be - if so then everyone should shoot themselves and get this crummy life over with.

Final Fantasy: Advent Children, overrated.

You may need to quantify this as to who overrates it, I would think that 99% of the US population has no idea it even exists. Since I can't really remember ANYTHING about the film even though I've seen it I would have to agree that it is overrated though.

[anime52k8]

Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, underrated.

Final Fantasy: Advent Children, overrated.

Discuss.

Pretty much yeah. Spirits Within's only problem was that it was made a decade ahead of it's time. The technology at the time was to expensive and to primitive, but mostly People just weren't ready for life-like, all CGI movies. It was a beautiful looking film with a solid story, but people just weren't ready for it. Had Spirits Within been released today it would have been a much bigger success because general audiences are open to CGI-intensive films.

as for Advent Children, it was pretty and fun to see FFVII in super-detailed Hi-def CGI, but really the movie barely makes sense if you HAVE played the game. For anyone who hasn't the movie makes absolutely NO sense at all.

also I think Advent Children automatically gets undue praise just because it's FFVII, and conversely Spirits Within gets unfairly ragged on just because it's unrelated to any of the games.

(I like both but I think Spirits Within is much better as a movie)

[eugimon]

spirits was crap because they relied too heavily on motion capture and the hand animated stuff was so jarringly wooden and stiff, not because it was ahead of its time. It focused on the design and relied too heavily on only one animation technique.

I think Spirits would still have bombed if it was released today. It's animation is just sub par.

[Duke Togo]

Netflix finally sent me Moon. Wonderful film, totally underrated.

[Twoducks]

It always bugs the hell out of me when people piss and moan about how a period movie isn't historically accurate when it's a F*cking movie. It's Entertainment, not an educational film.

And yet much of what today we hold as true started out as fiction:

http://www.cracked.com/article_18487_6-rid...k-are-true.html

Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within main problem was that it overrated itself so much before release.

[dreamweaver13]

Pretty much yeah. Spirits Within's only problem was that it was made a decade ahead of it's time. The technology at the time was to expensive and to primitive, but mostly People just weren't ready for life-like, all CGI movies. It was a beautiful looking film with a solid story, but people just weren't ready for it. Had Spirits Within been released today it would have been a much bigger success because general audiences are open to CGI-intensive films.

as for Advent Children, it was pretty and fun to see FFVII in super-detailed Hi-def CGI, but really the movie barely makes sense if you HAVE played the game. For anyone who hasn't the movie makes absolutely NO sense at all.

also I think Advent Children automatically gets undue praise just because it's FFVII, and conversely Spirits Within gets unfairly ragged on just because it's unrelated to any of the games.

(I like both but I think Spirits Within is much better as a movie)

Spirits within underrated? I disagree. It wasn't about the CGI, i think. At that time, the technology was already amazing. In fact, if not for its superior CGI, i think the movie would have been more of critical and financial flop than it actually was. The problem I had with Spirits was its uninspired plot and over-dramatized conflict. As much as I would like to sympathize with the end-of-the-world-last-human-civilization atmosphere that the movie was trying to project, somehow I can't because they're basically being threatened by incorporeal ghosts that just take the soul. Also, the ultimate mystery behind it all was quite disappointing. What is the mystery behind these world conquerors that destroed the earth? Oh, they're just spirits that were restless because their world was destroyed. Any reason why they are trying to eat all human souls on earth? Oh i dunno, don't all ghosts do that? I mean, really, who you gonna call?

I'm ragging it as a movie, on its own, and not as a part of the FF franchise. I'm not even putting that into the equation yet. Coz if I did, I would be forced to say that the title was the most blatant form of false advertising that I have ever seen. CGI and the mere presence of Cid do not a final fantasy make.

Advent Children overrated? I would also disagree, but with a qualification. I think Advent Children was perfect, and I loved that movie. But that was just as a FFVII fanboy speaking. I can't distance myself from that. Heck, put all those characters together in a cage match and I would still declare it the best.cgi.movie.ever. I can see how the story didn't make sense at times, the plot was all over the place, and the storyline jumped from one concept to the next without really explaining what the point was. For example, there was all this talk of a Reunion, but what the hell was going on, where did these 3 come from, what's the connection? And how did Sephiroth come back in the first place? But heck, who cares, Cloud and Sephiroth faced off again, that's good enough for me!

BUT. That was before I watched the Complete version of Advent Children. Until then, I had no idea that there was an actual fluid story taking place. A lot of stuff was cut from the Complete version to make the cinematic release. A LOT of dialogue that basically connects the action that takes place over the course of the movie, and a lot of character development that explained the relationships between Cloud, Tifa and the orphans, between the three antagonists, Sephiroth and Shinra corporation.

Basically, the cinematic releases of Advent Children was a lot of awesome, breathtaking, mind-blowing action glued together with a ghost of a plot, whereas the Complete version was an actual story, that also happened to have awesome, breathtaking, mind-blowing action. Seriously, I don't understand why they edited that much out for the cinematic version.

So, I would recommend first watching the Complete version of Advent Children before deciding whether or not it is overrated.

[anime52k8]

Spirits within underrated? I disagree. It wasn't about the CGI, i think. At that time, the technology was already amazing. In fact, if not for its superior CGI, i think the movie would have been more of critical and financial flop than it actually was. The problem I had with Spirits was its uninspired plot and over-dramatized conflict. As much as I would like to sympathize with the end-of-the-world-last-human-civilization atmosphere that the movie was trying to project, somehow I can't because they're basically being threatened by incorporeal ghosts that just take the soul. Also, the ultimate mystery behind it all was quite disappointing. What is the mystery behind these world conquerors that destroed the earth? Oh, they're just spirits that were restless because their world was destroyed. Any reason why they are trying to eat all human souls on earth? Oh i dunno, don't all ghosts do that? I mean, really, who you gonna call?

it's still a better, more interesting plot than most of the big budget, high grossing crap that has come out in the last couple years. If Spirits was released now with today's state of the art animation and CGI (which was my point originally, not just re-releasing it but doing it now with Avatar quality CGI) I still say it would have been a hit. if Avatar (or the bayformers movies for that matter) teaches us anything its that audiences today will spend ludicrous amounts of money on movies just because they have shinny CG and big explosions.

I'm ragging it as a movie, on its own, and not as a part of the FF franchise. I'm not even putting that into the equation yet. Coz if I did, I would be forced to say that the title was the most blatant form of false advertising that I have ever seen. CGI and the mere presence of Cid do not a final fantasy make.

that's all that qualifies something to be a Final Fantasy game apparently

Advent Children overrated? I would also disagree, but with a qualification. I think Advent Children was perfect, and I loved that movie. But that was just as a FFVII fanboy speaking. I can't distance myself from that. Heck, put all those characters together in a cage match and I would still declare it the best.cgi.movie.ever. I can see how the story didn't make sense at times, the plot was all over the place, and the storyline jumped from one concept to the next without really explaining what the point was. For example, there was all this talk of a Reunion, but what the hell was going on, where did these 3 come from, what's the connection? And how did Sephiroth come back in the first place? But heck, who cares, Cloud and Sephiroth faced off again, that's good enough for me!

BUT. That was before I watched the Complete version of Advent Children. Until then, I had no idea that there was an actual fluid story taking place. A lot of stuff was cut from the Complete version to make the cinematic release. A LOT of dialogue that basically connects the action that takes place over the course of the movie, and a lot of character development that explained the relationships between Cloud, Tifa and the orphans, between the three antagonists, Sephiroth and Shinra corporation.

Basically, the cinematic releases of Advent Children was a lot of awesome, breathtaking, mind-blowing action glued together with a ghost of a plot, whereas the Complete version was an actual story, that also happened to have awesome, breathtaking, mind-blowing action. Seriously, I don't understand why they edited that much out for the cinematic version.

So, I would recommend first watching the Complete version of Advent Children before deciding whether or not it is overrated.

It's overrated because it's only good if you're a huge fan of the games, but it's frequently made out to be this amazing movie regardless of if you've played the game or not. even in the complete version it still makes no sense if you never played the game, it's totally inaccessible to outside audiences. it's bad enough when a sequel to a movie is like this but it's even worse when it's a sequel to a completely different media.

[dreamweaver13]

it's still a better, more interesting plot than most of the big budget, high grossing crap that has come out in the last couple years. If Spirits was released now with today's state of the art animation and CGI (which was my point originally, not just re-releasing it but doing it now with Avatar quality CGI) I still say it would have been a hit. if Avatar (or the bayformers movies for that matter) teaches us anything its that audiences today will spend ludicrous amounts of money on movies just because they have shinny CG and big explosions.

But that's exactly what I said - i think it wasn't about the CGI. Sure, it's an ok plot when compared to other crap. But whether it's using the CGI technology, or using updated avatar-quality CGI, ultimately I think the plot just wasn't good enough to be a hit. Avatar and Transformers are different creatures entirely, because of their big-name directors. And also, I would hazard a guess that Transformers, as a brand, is a wee bit more popular than Final fantasy.

But that's just my guess, as your guess is the opposite. It's all pretty speculative, really.

It's overrated because it's only good if you're a huge fan of the games, but it's frequently made out to be this amazing movie regardless of if you've played the game or not. even in the complete version it still makes no sense if you never played the game, it's totally inaccessible to outside audiences. it's bad enough when a sequel to a movie is like this but it's even worse when it's a sequel to a completely different media.

Good point. I'm guilty of definitively saying it's an awesome movie, but I still have enough self control to tell this only to people who have an FFVII background. In other words, I still have enough discretion not to geek-out and give my "four-thumbs-up" to any random film-viewer. But, I would still recomment it as an ok movie -- the Complete edition, that is -- and say that at least it's worth watching.

So in effect, if an FFVII fan is telling another person who at least knows about FFVII that Advent Children (Complete) is awesome, then I don't think it's being overrated at all. Coz, like i said, the Complete edition is actually a good movie. On the other hand, if an FFVII fan is telling a random movie goer that Advent Children is an amazing, perfect and life-changing movie, than yeah, it is overrating the movie a tad bit. But really, is there anyone who actually does this? For example, will I really tell my girlfriend who has never played a console game in her entire life that, "Oh my god, this is the most frickin awesome movie ever made. You have to see this or you're missing half your life!!"?

The point being, it's a given that Advent Children will not be anything more than awesome eye candy to those who haven't had a whiff of FFVII in their lives. But even among those who have exposure to FFVII, the verdict is still out whether or not Advent Children was a good movie, and deserves its praise among gamers. And I suggested that before you do decide on this, make sure you saw the Complete edition first.

[CoryHolmes]

The problem I have with it is that just about everyone puts on a pedestal along with evangelion and that nothing can compare to it.

That's exactly my issues with BSG. Every where I turn on the interwebz is Gods-this and frak-that. I have a litany of issues, plot-holes, tropes, and face-palm moments that prevented me from enjoying anything after mid-Season 1. However, I just usually restrain myself to and . Still is annoying, though

Firefly was a great show that had some pacing issues, nothing major, but was cancelled long before it had a chance to produce any real turds of episodes and jump any space-sharks. Perhaps we should be happy with that as a consolation prize, yes?

Also: Guyver. Animes, movies, and the manga. So totally underrated.

... I'll get my coat...

Edited April 8, 2010 by CoryHolmes

[eugimon]

overrated:

people calling moore's BSG overrated.

tim burton's Batman and all subsequent sequels.

Gundam 00 and especially season 2

Code Geass

District 9

Underrated:

Superman Returns

[mikeszekely]

The problem I had with Spirits was its uninspired plot and over-dramatized conflict.

That's the problem I've had with every Final Fantasy since IV.

CGI and the mere presence of Cid do not a final fantasy make.

So it was missing, what... chocobos? An androgynous fellow with a sword a guy twice his size couldn't lift? It's not like there's a lot of commonality between the games.

I can't really comment on whether or not Spirits Within is underrated, because I've never seen it. But Advent Children was just terrible... 100 minutes of fanservice for the kids who vote Cloud and Sephiroth into every Gamefaqs character battle. It's got a 33% at Rotten Tomatoes, and yeah, I'd say that's overrating it.

[mikeszekely]

Gundam 00 and especially season 2

I wasn't aware that 00 was getting favorable reviews. About the best thing I could say for 00 was that it was better than SEED. I guess I also liked how, instead of aping the original like SEED did, it borrowed more from Wing.

Oh, that reminds me...

Overrated: Gundam Wing. There still seems to be a ton of love for this series amongst anime fandom at large. To be honest, it was the first Gundam I saw, back when it was on Toonami. It got me interested enough to watch all of the other Gundam series... which I quickly discovered were all better. Wing was full of characters with about as much depth as a puddle, and who personified 90s angst. Not to mention that it was more of a Super Robot show than a Real Robot show, yet lacked the originality to be more than a Reader's Digest version of UC Gundam from first Gundam to Char's Counterattack. Until SEED came along, Wing wound up being my least favorite Gundam.

Underrated: Gundam X. Interesting post-apocalyptic setting, decent cast, acceptable mecha designs, and the meaning of Newtypes as a central theme. Possible the most Gundam-ish AU series.

[dreamweaver13]

So it was missing, what... chocobos? An androgynous fellow with a sword a guy twice his size couldn't lift? It's not like there's a lot of commonality between the games.

Oh I don't know, maybe... magic? a summon, at least? or basically anything that would at least put the movie in the realms of a "fantasy", as opposed to a sci-fi movie.

And before anyone says that if I was only looking for fantasy, then I should have not watched Spirits Within in the first place, they're absolutely right. But as I said, the use of the phrase "Final Fantasy" in the movie title is completely misleading, because of what that phrase implies. If they were going to show a movie about the future annhilation of mankind by space ghosts, then by all means do so. But don't use your most popular label/product just to promote it.

I can only guess as to what Square was thinking when they decided to make Spirits Within. Did they decide to make a sci-fi film, and only use the label "final fantasy" to promote it? Or did they initially want to create a real fantasy movie in the same spirit as their FF games, but wussed out due to the perception at that time that "fantasy" doesn't sell? Either way, it was bad decision-making on their part, i think.

Edited April 8, 2010 by dreamweaver13

[dreamweaver13]

overrated:

people calling moore's BSG overrated.

tim burton's Batman and all subsequent sequels.

Gundam 00 and especially season 2

Code Geass

District 9

Underrated:

Superman Returns

Lol. Agree on BSG.

Also agree on the first Batman by Tim Burton. But I have to wonder if i'm only declaring it as over-rated after Batman Begins and Dark Knight came out. After all, before Nolan's versions, what better versions were there? Specially when compared to Schumacher's travesties.

I would agree on Superman, if not for it's mistake of painting itself into a corner with the illegitimate son thing. I recall with amusement the first time i watched that movie, and when the hints were starting to pile up, my mind was screaming oh no, this can't be happening. singer, you're being a troll. you're f**king with our heads, you won't dare!. And when the piano came flying, oh no he di'int!

[taksraven]

Underrated:

A.I. Artificial Intelligence - Deeply flawed but still underrated

The Black Hole - Once again, a lot of flaws but at the heart of it there is a good story that I do enjoy.....

They Live - a great little film with interesting ideas.

Taksraven

[DrStrangelove]

I always thought the Wing Commander movie was underrated.

[CoryHolmes]

overrated:

people calling moore's BSG overrated.

Lol. Agree on BSG.

Grr Overrated:

People defending Moore's BSG against overratedness.

Underrated:

Robocop 2. Better'n it gets, really.