Robotech Macross Saga Remaster

MrDisco · November 20, 2003

First they bitch cause the quality of the DVD's suck, now they bitch because they are gonna remaster them.
I guess people will always eat cheese.

heh easy for you to take pot shots at the fans of the show huh?

first we noted that the original release was not as good as it should have been. we were told there would be no remastering. fine we accept it, lay out the $ to purchase the sets. now suddenly not more then a 1 yr later a remaster is possible.yeah thats great for people who never bought in the first time but haha oops guess us suckers who bought in and supported the series are out of luck.

MrDisco · November 20, 2003

Looks like they took a page out of just about every other DVD release done over the last couple of years. This is nothing new and doesn't surprise at all. No one's going to force you to take the money out of your wallet.

absolutely correct. hollywood dvds, particularly mega hits, are now *expected* to come out in various releases (or price points if you will). heck will anyone be suprised when a new LOTR boxset with new scenes comes out next year? or how about a new and improved matrix set? star wars? haha we'll be re-buying star wars every decade. i think the difference is we know that there will be a new and better release out. this is pretty rare in anime.

my disbelief over double-dipping is equally directed to those mainstream releases as well.

Panon · November 20, 2003

now suddenly not more then a 1 yr later a remaster is possible.

Robotech was released more than two years ago.

If you happened to buy it later than that, thems the breaks.

Ladic · November 20, 2003

bsu legato · November 20, 2003

ROBOTECH
Remastered/1

With Exciting New cover artwork!!!!

Mr March · November 20, 2003

Sure glad I don't collect Robotech. Talk about a kick in the teeth to the RT fans.

bsu legato · November 20, 2003

Talk about a kick in the teeth to the RT fans.

Robotech Fan: "Thank you, sir. May I have another?"

Hikuro · November 20, 2003

I haven't even bothered buying the Mospdea or Southern Cross remasters, and hearing this kind of ticks me off, but ya know what I don't really care cause I'll more than likely end up buying it cause it's Robotech, I could REALLY care that much less about it. Hell might even go buy Mospdea and Southern Cross tomorrow or something and call it a week.

Effect · November 20, 2003

First they bitch cause the quality of the DVD's suck, now they bitch because they are gonna remaster them.
I guess people will always eat cheese.

heh easy for you to take pot shots at the fans of the show huh?

first we noted that the original release was not as good as it should have been. we were told there would be no remastering. fine we accept it, lay out the $ to purchase the sets. now suddenly not more then a 1 yr later a remaster is possible.yeah thats great for people who never bought in the first time but haha oops guess us suckers who bought in and supported the series are out of luck.

Good point.

Apollo Leader · November 20, 2003

From what I recall, Robotech couldn't be remastered, at least not easily, in part because most or all of the footage was on tapes instead of regular film and it would be very expensive to recut Animeigo and ADV's restored footage of the original series into "remastered" Robotech footage. If I was a Robotechie I would be steamed if I had either bought all the original discs separately, bought the original 7 box sets, and/or bought the 3 box sets (without the extras DVD's).

At times like this I'm glad I'm a Macross/Mospeada/Southern Cross "Purist" who didn't waste his money on Robotech DVD's. B))

CAG · November 20, 2003

I'm plenty steamed.....but with the original Macross finally coming to Best Buy, it doesn't really matter, as I'm much more interested in that than a few new RT clips and a new theme.

Keith · November 20, 2003

Question is, just what the hell is going to be 5.1 about it? Even assuming they used stereo sources for the music, would they be bold enough to borrow the SFX only track that AnimEigo got from Big West? Or re-do their own sound effects ala Manga with MP Prt-4, or Rhino with the Transformers?

Or will they just go the cheaper route of making a fake stereo mix.

I'm actually interested in finding out what happens with this release, especially if they only re-insert scenes for "voilence," still leaving robotech edited for "video."

Deadzone · November 20, 2003

For the people who like Macross more than Robotech, I'm not exactly sure why they are complaining. Sounds like they have no intention of watching

Robotech DVDs ever again.

Personally, I really liked the Robotech series. I'm not too mad about the rerelease because I bought the original series for around $60.00 and it is fine for me. The biggest complaint I had about the image quality was the stupid black line that appears in some of the later episodes. Other than that, I'll save my money for something else rather than plunk down the money for the remastered stuff.

Nevertheless, if HG said there would be no remastered dvds ever released, I can see why Robotech fans are pissed. It is always nice to have the best

quality of something in any case, whether it be books, dvds, toys etc. So go ahead and vent. Also understand that most business say they care about their customers but will always market according to what they think will make them the most money. So it comes down to how badly do you want these remastered videos. I will pass. But others who are really concerned with quality will probably buy. HG maybe an a hole but let's see how many companies did well by being money milking a holes. Microsoft comes to mind. Unfortunately, this is a bad side to capitalism, but it sure beats getting your ass beat because you owned any kind of American DVD period.

ComicKaze · November 20, 2003

I HATE remastered 80s animes and cartoons. The fact is that the original art isn't that good to begin with most of the time. And the original sounds are mono and have very low-fidelity also.

All they ever do with these "enhancements" is raise the contrast so it's gharish, then sweep over all the frames with a smart-blur filter or some other filter to remove noise - this often means loss of detail or oversimplies colors, and then for sound they make some totally fake 5.1 with extra effects and misplaced sound and then it's all a horrible mess.

Let me tell you, I hate Rhino's TF DVDs because they are so hard to watch and listen to with all these wierd shabangs and whoosh-whishes in the background. It sounds like somebody was playing around in the kitchen when they "re-mastered" TF.

Cyclone · November 20, 2003

Or will they just go the cheaper route of making a fake stereo mix.

Present release is already faux stereo/dual mono, so I'm guessing it'll be a remastered...and of course will probably be okay excluding one small error that causes me to tear my hair out whenever I hear it (aka Terminator SE)

I'll probably end up buying New Gen, if only out of a sense of completeness.

Cyc

yellowlightman · November 20, 2003

I already have the first release DVDs, and rematered footage and a few extra clips isnt gonna make this new set any more worth it.

If they bothered to include some cool extras, it might almost be. But my budget for DVDs is small enough already. I kinda hope this re-release tanks, might teach them to not pull crap like this again. :lol:

ogami · November 20, 2003

I wonder how much HG can remaster/improve the show from the originals, some 20 years old films/tapes... and the last "remastered" edition

And I don't see how they can put 5.1 or 7.1 ch on SDF: Macross... (it will sound different... and maybe to the point of weird)

bsu legato · November 20, 2003

and of course will probably be okay excluding one small error that causes me to tear my hair out whenever I hear it (aka Terminator SE)

You too? And here I thought I was the only one who didn't like it. Thankfully they included the original mono mix.

Blaine23 · November 20, 2003

Meh... I'm not much surprised...

Animeigo remastered Macross, ADV has remastered Southern Cross & Mospeada. Splice it together and clean up the audio as much as possible - boom, you got Remastered Robotech. It sounds like a much less difficult job than Animeigo had to do, going frame by frame and digitally cleaning.

HG's old excuse about how "Robotech could never be remastered because it was done on tape" theory just sounded lazy to me.

As far as actually buying it - I'm actually looking forward to picking up the couple of Robotech 3 disc box sets I don't have dirt cheap from people who feel the need to buy the remastered version. I liked the show strictly for nostalgic reasons - I want to look just as crappy as it did on my UHF TV in 1985.

But never, ever be surprised at "The Man" for shoving "Ultimate" "Special" "Extended" and "Collector's" Editions down our throats. As long as we (DVD buyers everywhere) keep buying them...

Khyron · November 20, 2003

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

This is just like the Lord of the Rings. First came the origonal editions and later came the extended editions. I'll pick these up.

Ladic · November 20, 2003

the fact that this come with spanish dub, makes it all worth it, so I can finally see them again, like I originally watched them.

The Shade · November 20, 2003

Well, I'm glad that I got rid of my RT DVDs recently, as this bit of news would have made it more difficult to sell them off later. But, that doesn't mean that I will buy this new set.

What some people are saying is correct though, being told that there was no way that RT could be remastered and then remastering it after the fans have purchased the original batch is a new low for HG.

I hope all this blows up in their faces.

Effect · November 20, 2003

If you don't like it, don't buy it.
This is just like the Lord of the Rings. First came the origonal editions and later came the extended editions. I'll pick these up.

Except we knew that better additions would be released and Lord of the Rings warrent such a purchase. RT really doesn't, especially after they said there would never be a remastered version since it would be to much work. (footage was on tape, notes of where the edits were done and voices places were gone, etc). Now had the had said, there are no plans to release a remastered version at this time. Or said that it might be possible we will have to see if its affordable or profitable to do so. No they said there wouldn't be a remastered version at all. Just another example of HG lying to people. I'm not surprised at all though. Its jut like them to lie and they trying to milk things all the more.

Oh well I might bother with downloading the episodes or picking up a bootleg(copies) from somewhere. No way I'm going to pay near full price for this. Like others have said, I'm better off picking up the original series anyway, I still need to do that and christmas is coming up and I'll have enough to pick up the Animeigo version of SDF Macross Joy

Edited November 20, 2003 by Effect

1st Border Red Devil · November 20, 2003

If you dont like it....dont get it.

Christ...if they had done this in the beginning...people would be screaming to have "Original Robotech" on DVD. Its the same as the people that want Original Star Wars on DVD minus the "Special Edition".

So what that HG said that they wouldnt do it? Its a corporation for crying out loud.

Cyclone · November 20, 2003

You too? And here I thought I was the only one who didn't like it. Thankfully they included the original mono mix.

Australian release only has the remastered 5.1 track :/

Cyc

Keith · November 20, 2003

Hmm, taking a look at the picture on rt.com, it looks like both sides are of the same size (i.e. not zoomed out like the AnimEigo remaster).

Now that it's safely ruled out, I again would have to say that they remastered the tape sources (most likely scenario, seeing as they'd have to re-time, slow down animatin, etc, if they went back to the original source tapes), leaving for an odd looking remaster.

All they can really do is a basic filtering, and try to re-adjust the color/contrast, which would still leaving it inferior to the AE disc's, as the detail has already been lost from the initial transfer.

All in all, all I have to say is, WHERE THE HELL IS MY MEGAZONE 23 SET!

Godzilla · November 20, 2003

Bah. I'm a RT fan but I already have the DVDs and seen the story. Since my interest in RT has been lessing I see no need to buy this. Not worth the money in my opinion nor my time.

I agree. I am in the same boat with you as well. I also bought the Digitally remastered Macross. I think it is more entertaing than Robotech. Problem is that I grew up on it. The more I look at Robotech, the less interested I am. Macross on the other hand, my interest has been growing after seeing some of the new valks. Then I find out I can get a better valk from Yamato than Toynami. I got the whole collection since it was bigger than the 1/60 yammie. After the 1/48, I can never go back.

Apollo Leader · November 21, 2003

After some more thought, I remembered that Southern Cross had some of the animation actually altered so that the second sun in the background was deleted, so this probably means that they won't use the remastered Southern Cross footage. Also, they would probably have to negotiate with Animeigo to utilize its remastered Macross footage.

As for those who are comparing this DVD release to other US DVD releases, there is little comparison. With LOTR, for example, the extended version boxset was known in advanced. Also, there is TONS of added materials making this purchase worthwile. Hell, there is even a rebate offered for those who bought the DVD's that came out in August!

In the case of the Robotech "Special Editions", it will be a step backwards. The only "improvements" are a slight clean up of a poor media format, reincorporation of a few scenes which you can see in much better quality on the unedited DVD's of the originals of all 3 Japanese series, and "new" opening and closing sequences are being used. There will be no extra materials like with the original boxsets.

For those who have seen the poor quality the original Robotech DVD's were in, there should have been no excuses back then and they should have done it right from the get go.

treatment · November 21, 2003

for those following this drama, here's a link to the AoD-forum where DLW answered Keith's question:

http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?...o=&fpart=9&vc=1

MrDisco · November 21, 2003

If you dont like it....dont get it.
Christ...if they had done this in the beginning...people would be screaming to have "Original Robotech" on DVD. Its the same as the people that want Original Star Wars on DVD minus the "Special Edition".

So what that HG said that they wouldnt do it? Its a corporation for crying out loud.

your response is basically 'they're a corporation so just accept what ever they do and gosh darn it don't rock the boat'.

sorry i don't accept that.

as a consumer we should make our concerns heard. it is far worse to not say anything and have companies believe what they're doing is the right thing.

Edited November 21, 2003 by MrDisco

MrDisco · November 21, 2003

Hmm, taking a look at the picture on rt.com, it looks like both sides are of the same size (i.e. not zoomed out like the AnimEigo remaster).

sorry what exactly do you mean by 'zoomed out' ?

wrylac · November 21, 2003

Hmm, taking a look at the picture on rt.com, it looks like both sides are of the same size (i.e. not zoomed out like the AnimEigo remaster).
Now that it's safely ruled out, I again would have to say that they remastered the tape sources (most likely scenario, seeing as they'd have to re-time, slow down animatin, etc, if they went back to the original source tapes), leaving for an odd looking remaster.

All they can really do is a basic filtering, and try to re-adjust the color/contrast, which would still leaving it inferior to the AE disc's, as the detail has already been lost from the initial transfer.

All in all, all I have to say is, WHERE THE HELL IS MY MEGAZONE 23 SET!

The press release states that this remaster is done from a brand new digital transfer of the original film stock. RT was orginally edited from a video transfer.

Ladic · November 21, 2003

THis is what Tommy Yune Said over at Robotech.com:

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...0034&forumid=23

Tommy
Rank: Captain

Subject: It was true at the time

Posted On: November 20, 2003 - 3:33:11 PM

Profile

Some of these issues were discussed in the chat room last night:

Back in 2001, Carl Macek had overseen the process of producing the Robotech DVDs because he obviously had the most experience with the source material. The 1985 broadcast masters were originally thought to be the last and best source material for Robotech remaining because a flood in Hollywood had destroyed a lot of the materials used in the production of Robotech years ago, such as discrete audio tracks. EDL data, used to edit the broadcast version had also since been lost.

However, two discoveries were made by Harmony Gold's archivist Andre Alas that made the remastering of Robotech possible. First, the original film reels of the Japanese animation were found to have been stored off site in a climate controlled vault. These turned out to actually be in better shape today than the masters provided by Tatsunoko Productions in Japan, making the new remastered versions of the Japanese series possible. We had actually asked Shin Kurokawa, who had overseen the restoration of the Macross footage about the possibility of restoring Robotech from this material, but he conceded that such a project would be a nightmare. (note that Robotech comprises about 35 hours of material over 85 episodes)

Then a new discovery was made more recently: a duplicate set of four-track audio tapes that contained the discrete voice, effects and music tracks of the episodes were found to have also been stored off-site. Ahmed Agrama, the original executive producer, and Intersound, the post-production facility, concluded that enough materials had become present to make such a project possible - in fact, we're still working on the Robotech Masters segment right now.

All of the above, plus the clamoring of fans for subtitle tracks for the hearing impaired, Spanish tracks for Latin-American fans, and 5.1 surround audio remix capabilities by the original post-production studio, convinced us to move forward with this new 2004 release, which will also help to reach out to new fans of anime today.

Tommy Yune

Harmony Gold

Protoculture doesn't taste so bad after all!

MrDisco · November 21, 2003

words escape me.

if only every dvd release could be so lucky as to have new masters suddenly appear <_<

rocco_77 · November 21, 2003

Yeah, I think that is a bunch of crap too... I don't think I believe what Tommy had to say there. The magical appearance of "other" masters and such just sounds like a well written excuse to get around what they said before, that Robotech "counldn't" and "wouldn't" be remastered because of the investment required to make the project possible... now suddenly, they find "new masters" and release this as the truth to cover their a$$es...

I said this on another forum, and I'll go ahead and say it here.... I bought the original box sets released, and I'm perfectly happy with them... I'm glad to have that piece of my childhood to enjoy at my will... Would I have liked it to be remastered and then released? OF COURSE... Am I P.Oed. about this "new development?".... hell yes.... Am I gonna lose sleep over it? no... I am really disappointed though that after waiting 15 years for Macross and Robotech alike to get back into circulation, that the main corporation that owns the rights to the show are screwing the fans that made them rich.

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