Aircraft Vs Super Thread VI

[buddhafabio]

Because that price is almost certain to drop significantly once production gets underway and the US and all its allies start buying JSFs. By comparison the F-22's costs actually haven't decreased that much and aren't likely to over time because of all the features; moreover there is no way in hell the US would have bought sufficient numbers of the fighter to bring the cost down significantly. For comparison, FY2000 Super Hornets cost about 90 million each (and I believe the initial estimates had them around 110 million), now they are around 60 million. So its nowhere close to a fair estimate of cost.

and they are better in electronics now compared to then

[VF-19]

Anybody have any idea as to what this drone is? Seems to be a new one at the Museum...

Also, bonus: What cockpit is this?

[anime52k8]

Anybody have any idea as to what this drone is? Seems to be a new one at the Museum...

SAGEM Sperwer UAV

Also, bonus: What cockpit is this?

Mig-21

[VF-19]

Right on both images! Although, our UAV seems to be missing the canards in the picture at wikipedia... must be a different version.

[Ghost Train]

Hmm... delicious old school cockpit, lots of dials and "analog" technology.

[VF-19]

It was also suprisingly comfortable to sit in too. I could have sat in it all day with no problems. Makes me want to build a pit for myself.

[Nied]

F-35C makes it's first flight. I wasn't expecting this from the CGI three-views Lockheed had published before but the C model is easily the most attractive version of the F-35, even wearing the key lime pie primer scheme it has right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZUo99e8wCg

[Knight26]

That's an awful lot of wing tip vortice contrails going on there...

[David Hingtgen]

Yeah, funny how Lockheed's products tend to do that a lot lately, after they bashed Northrop over the YF-23 doing the exact same thing...

[the white drew carey]

...but the C model is easily the most attractive version of the F-35...

It may just be me (probably is), but attractiveness in a plane, especially military, is not based on aesthetic qualities, but how well it does it's job.

[Vifam7]

It may just be me (probably is), but attractiveness in a plane, especially military, is not based on aesthetic qualities, but how well it does it's job.

True, but when was the last time there was an airplane that looked good but was a complete bust in it's ability to do it's job?

[Ghost Train]

Ugly (or just not pretty), but did a fine job:

Kittyhawk (1903)

P-47

A-10

Bell UH-1H

The Whole F-"Centenial" Line

Giant Rockets

VF-25

But then again, all of these are arguable, thus beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For instance, I just love fat girls.

[anime52k8]

The Whole F-"Centenial" Line

Sir, I am offended by your insinuation the F-104 isn't the single most attractive jet fighter ever built.

[Nied]

True, but when was the last time there was an airplane that looked good but was a complete bust in it's ability to do it's job?

Both the F3H Demon and the F4D Skyray were real lookers who's performance was considered sub par.

[Ghost Train]

The F-22 sure looks beautiful... but it has yet to 1) shoot down a real aircraft, 2) dropped a single bomb 3) deployed overseas ... juuuuust kiiiding! don't shoot.

[Vifam7]

Both the F3H Demon and the F4D Skyray were real lookers who's performance was considered sub par.

Ah, right I forgot.

The F3H Demon's failure was due to a poor engine. Had it had a good engine, it might have lasted longer in service?

Wasn't the performance of the F4D Skyray was considered superb but that the problem was that it was asked to do multi-role when it was designed for high-altitude interception?

[Nied]

Ah, right I forgot.

The F3H Demon's failure was due to a poor engine. Had it had a good engine, it might have lasted longer in service?

Wasn't the performance of the F4D Skyray was considered superb but that the problem was that it was asked to do multi-role when it was designed for high-altitude interception?

On a second look you are correct about the F4D, I think I had it mixed up in my head with it's delta winged (but far less attractive) contemporary the F7U Cutlass.

[Noyhauser]

Sir, I am offended by your insinuation the F-104 isn't the single most attractive jet fighter ever built.

Actually I think its one of the ugliest fighters ever... its just a single tube with short stubby wings. one big bleh.

On a second look you are correct about the F4D, I think I had it mixed up in my head with it's delta winged (but far less attractive) contemporary the F7U Cutlass.

I kinda disagree. I've recently had the pleasure in building one and I think its really got great lines.... just terrible engines.

(shameless plug.)

Edited June 8, 2010 by Noyhauser

[the white drew carey]

The F-22 sure looks beautiful... but it has yet to 1) shoot down a real aircraft, 2) dropped a single bomb 3) deployed overseas ... juuuuust kiiiding! don't shoot.

Actually, I completely agree with that sentiment, and almost posted the same thing before deciding to be a bit more tactful.

[the white drew carey]

Because I know there are some F-212 lovers out there.

[David Hingtgen]

Never liked the F4D, F7U is "attractive in a weird sort of way"----so long as it's one of the early ones, not the more common "bulged canopy" version.

[Noyhauser]

Never liked the F4D, F7U is "attractive in a weird sort of way"----so long as it's one of the early ones, not the more common "bulged canopy" version.

I completely agree with that, for the same reasons I like the FH Phantom and the late model F2H Banjos; long proportional fuselages. The bulging canopy on the production Cutlass kinda ruins that line.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Noyhauser

[Noyhauser]

Ah, right I forgot.

The F3H Demon's failure was due to a poor engine. Had it had a good engine, it might have lasted longer in service?

Wasn't the performance of the F4D Skyray was considered superb but that the problem was that it was asked to do multi-role when it was designed for high-altitude interception?

The Demon (as well as the Cutlass) used the Westinghouse J40 engine, which was intended to run a whole generation of USN fighters. Problem was that it never came close to its promise, it routinely was about 1/3 to 1/2 less powerful than contemporary engines like the Allison J71 and the PW J57. That would have made a considerable difference in both aircrafts' performance.

[David Hingtgen]

Russian Knights:

[VF-19]

Great video! I especially like the cockpit views. They're really jiggling the stick to maintain formation... Now, does anybody recognize the song?

[Ghost Train]

That song rocked... it's totally a song that would come up as your Ace Combat aircraft gets ready to take on Yellow-13.

[hobbes221]

Just something I came across

quote:Lt. Col. Gabriel Green and Capt. Zachary Bartoe patrol the airspace in an F-15E Strike Eagle as the Space Shuttle Atlantis launches May 14, 2010, at Kennedy Space Center, Fla. Colonel Green is the 333rd Fighter Squadron commander and Captain Bartoe is a 333rd FS weapons system officer. Both aircrew members are assigned to Seymour Johnson Air Force Base, N.C. (U.S. Air Force photo/Capt. John Peltier)

[the white drew carey]

Just something I came across

quote:Lt. Col. Gabriel Green and Capt. Zachary Bartoe patrol the airspace in an F-15E Strike Eagle as the Space Shuttle Atlantis launches May 14, 2010, at Kennedy Space Center, Fla. Colonel Green is the 333rd Fighter Squadron commander and Captain Bartoe is a 333rd FS weapons system officer. Both aircrew members are assigned to Seymour Johnson Air Force Base, N.C. (U.S. Air Force photo/Capt. John Peltier)

That photo is pretty damn dope.

[Shadow]

The F-22 sure looks beautiful... but it has yet to 1) shoot down a real aircraft, 2) dropped a single bomb 3) deployed overseas ... juuuuust kiiiding! don't shoot.

Technically it has dropped bombs. (dummy bombs but you get the picture)It can be converted to carry 2 1000Lb JDAMs.

The F-35C does look more imposing than its siblings with that larger wingspan.

[Lynx7725]

That photo is pretty damn dope.

I was just wondering if the F-15 is going to 'delimit' itself and go chasing after the Shuttle....

[VF-19]

It could if you stripped it of all weapons, pulled the RIO out, and yanked the FAST packs off... But probably only for the first minute or so. Remember, the Shuttle weighs several million pounds, and it's going pretty much straight UP.

A MiG-25 would have a good shot at it too.

[Ghost Train]

It really makes no difference whether you send a Mig-25, F-15, or the Wright Brother's Kittyhawk after the shuttle during launch... the window of being able to "catch up" to one is incredibly small.

Remember that the shuttle (with boosters) will eventually need to travel at +20,000+ km / hr to reach LEO.

(I'm sure you guys are just kidding).

[David Hingtgen]

Actually, the F-15 is one of the few planes where there is a delimiter switch. It's for the engines though, not the flight controls/software. Due to the crappy reliability/lifetime of the F100, they're all limited to 98% thrust, even during active conflicts. (that last 2% makes all the difference when it comes to parts failures, overheating, etc) Pushing the button allows 100% thrust, and over 100% in fuel flow, RPM, EGT, etc. The increase is quite small, but it is there. 30 sec limit, unless it's life-or-death, then you're allowed to use it longer, but then the engines will need to be removed from the aircraft, checked, repaired, etc.

(Super Hornets have a switch too, I think it allows up to 12G in pitch)

[Shadow]

A MiG-25 would have a good shot at it too.

If the Foxbat already has a good amount of speed yeah, I could see that. If it had to catch up from a lower speed, an F-15 and MiG-31 would have the edge in catching the shuttle just due to better engines and less weight for the F-15.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Shadow

[Graham]

It really makes no difference whether you send a Mig-25, F-15, or the Wright Brother's Kittyhawk after the shuttle during launch... the window of being able to "catch up" to one is incredibly small.

Interesting to see an F-22 try.

Graham