Aircraft Vs Super Thread VI

[Bowen]

Anyone else read this yet?:

http://defensetech.org/2010/11/09/f-117s-back-in-the-air/

[miles316]

Anyone else read this yet?:

http://defensetech.org/2010/11/09/f-117s-back-in-the-air/

Yea some one in the military is doing something with them.

[Nied]

Yikes! Looks like we lost a third Raptor, hope they find the pilot OK.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Okay folks, now more requests for images:

• High viz(that look good, not gaudy) F/A-18D Legacy Hornet paint schemes from the Marine Corps
  
• High viz(yeah not many) F-22A Raptor paint schemes(I realize these will primarily be on the vert stabs)
  

Also, is there a specific reason why the edges of the F-22's control surfaces are in lighter color than the rest of the airframe? I noticed that the YF-22 was not like that. I want to repaint an F-22 into VF-2 Bounty Hunters colors.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0

[David Hingtgen]

I really don't remember why the F-22 edges are painted like that.

Also, the Alaska F-22 was found, crashed, but not the pilot. Hopefully he ejected and landed a few miles away.

F-18D Marines---I pretty much posted what there is. VMFA-224 has a very similar scheme as above with simple grey tails with the tiger-pattern rudders, as opposed to black tails with tiger-patterned rudders. There's also VMFA-533:

F-22 high-vis---nope! Even Langley's commander's plane doesn't have one speck of color. The tailcode does have a subtle shadow though. (in grey of course). http://f-16.net/modules/Gallery2/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=208102&g2_serialNumber=3&g2_GALLERYSID=f27e2f9634fc77a5f730a698bb24198a

Now, I think the 525th has a very bluish-grey fin flash---it's almost blue. Possibly 35164. That's the most "colorful" F-22 marking I know of:

[Ghost Train]

This is probably bovine fecal matter, or at best not quite practical, but IF TRUE it could be interesting:

Link

Cliff-Notes version:

1) Create a plasma cloud around an aircraft (plasma is what you get when you keep heating gas, separating electrons from their atoms, creating a nice soupy mixture of positive and negative charges) - plasma apparently reduces the effectiveness of radar.

2) Apparently portable plasma generators exist weighing ~ 100kg, a portable enough size to be carried by a tactical aircraft, thus creating a respectable level of stealth.

3) Place these on a good ol' 4.5G fighter, preferably one with a large number of hardpoints like a Strike Eagle derivative or a SU-35.

4) Profit..... ?

[buddhafabio]

isnt the shuttle seen on radar entering the atmosphere?

pieces of the columbia were seen on radar and they were bathed in plasma

Edited November 18, 2010 by buddhafabio

[Nied]

This is probably bovine fecal matter, or at best not quite practical, but IF TRUE it could be interesting:

Link

Cliff-Notes version:

1) Create a plasma cloud around an aircraft (plasma is what you get when you keep heating gas, separating electrons from their atoms, creating a nice soupy mixture of positive and negative charges) - plasma apparently reduces the effectiveness of radar.

2) Apparently portable plasma generators exist weighing ~ 100kg, a portable enough size to be carried by a tactical aircraft, thus creating a respectable level of stealth.

3) Place these on a good ol' 4.5G fighter, preferably one with a large number of hardpoints like a Strike Eagle derivative or a SU-35.

4) Profit..... ?

That one's been around for a while. The problem with that scheme is A) keeping the aircraft sheathed in plasma as it flies at 500 knots, and B) while you might be invisible to radar you'd be glowing like a light bulb at just about every other wavelength, including IR and visible("the radar see's nothing but what's that huge X-ray source coming at us at mach 1?").

Re: F-22 edges, my understanding is that they're made out of different materials/painted with different coatings than the rest of the plane. The reason why hasn't been explained but I have to think it has something to do with further reducing the RCS (remember most of the radar re-emission would be from the edges of the plane).

Edited November 18, 2010 by Nied

[hobbes221]

Okay folks, now more requests for images:

• High viz(that look good, not gaudy) F/A-18D Legacy Hornet paint schemes from the Marine Corps
• High viz(yeah not many) F-22A Raptor paint schemes(I realize these will primarily be on the vert stabs)

This is the only high viz Raptor I have (I posted this here awhile back) very slight retro scheme on the nose.

[Lindem Herz]

That one's been around for a while. The problem with that scheme is A) keeping the aircraft sheathed in plasma as it flies at 500 knots, and B) while you might be invisible to radar you'd be glowing like a light bulb at just about every other wavelength, including IR and visible("the radar see's nothing but what's that huge X-ray source coming at us at mach 1?").

Re: F-22 edges, my understanding is that they're made out of different materials/painted with different coatings than the rest of the plane. The reason why hasn't been explained but I have to think it has something to do with further reducing the RCS (remember most of the radar re-emission would be from the edges of the plane).

I guess the only practical application for this would be as a "superchaff" in waaay Beyond Visual Range combat, when you're damn sure you're out of range of infrared missiles. Even that's debatable, because if the limiting factor for IR missiles is the sensor and not the fuel load, then you're screwed anyway.

It would be fun to see a Sidewinder trying to play whac-a-mole with a whole squadron turning those things on and off randomly, though.

On the other hand, more info on the Qantas A380. That 380 had the spirit of a Flying Fortress.

1 Massive fuel leak in the left mid fuel tank (there are 11 tanks, including in the horizontal stabiliser on the tail)

2 Massive fuel leak in the left inner fuel tank

3 A hole on the flap fairing big enough to climb through

4 The aft gallery in the fuel system failed, preventing many fuel transfer functions

5 Problem jettisoning fuel

6 Massive hole in the upper wing surface

7 Partial failure of leading edge slats

8 Partial failure of speed brakes/ground spoilers

9 Shrapnel damage to the flaps

10 Total loss of all hydraulic fluid in one of the jet's two systems

11 Manual extension of landing gear

12 Loss of one generator and associated systems

13 Loss of brake anti-skid system

14 No.1 engine could not be shut down in the usual way after landing because of major damage to systems

15 No.1 engine could not be shut down using the fire switch, which meant fire extinguishers would not work on that engine

16 ECAM (electronic centralised aircraft monitor) warnings about the major fuel imbalance (because of fuel leaks on left side) could not be fixed with cross-feeding

17 Fuel was trapped in the trim tank (in the tail)creating a balance problem for landing

18 Left wing forward spar penetrated by debris

[David Hingtgen]

The blue-nosed F-22 is gaudy/ugly IMHO. (the original P-51 was awesome). Applying "round" schemes to angled surfaces doesn't work...

I'm still astounded they allowed the RADOME to be PAINTED. Wonder if F-22 radomes/radar don't have as many issues as older planes...

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Hey guys, thanks for the images of high viz Legacy Hornets and F-22's! I really appreciate it. Planning on some custom PTE F/A-18's and True Heroes F-22's. Since the light trim on all the edges of the control surfaces seems to be on all F-22's, I may incorporate them on my custom F-22's. The PTE F/A-18 only comes with NAVY stickers, I wish it came with MARINES stickers for the sides of the engines too, since they are the only ones that actively use the F/A-18D in war-time roles(in US service). Plus, I like the F/A-18D. My goal for these customs is to:

• Paint what I can
  
• Use reprostickers from cobrastickers.com
  

Hopefully they will make some sticker sets in the future with stars and bars, USN, USMC, USAF markings, et al. Right now I am planning to use Moray Hydrofoil stickers on 2 of my PTE F/A-18's, 1 as a regular bird, the other as the CO plane.

[Graham]

New AP article on the Quantas A380 incident here.

Graham

[David Hingtgen]

If you want Airbus' own report on the damage, go here: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2010/11/17/the-anatomy-of-the-airbus-a380-qf32-near-disaster/

Also, so many A380s with RR engines have issues that they've used up the worldwide supply of spares, and are pulling new engines from undelivered planes at the factory to get the others up and running.

[Ghost Train]

We talk a lot about fighters, airliners, and spacecraft.... but once in a while we need to remind ourselves about the men who keep our skies safe, our first line of defense in commercial air travel. That's right folks, the TSA. Serve your country, fight terror... and meet hot women.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vm7OF-Ruxs

[Shadow]

An update on the missing pilot. Evidence shows that he did not escape the crash.

I send my condolences to the family.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123231773

11/19/2010 - JOINT BASE ELMENDORF-RICHARDSON, Alaska -- Air Force officials here announced that search and rescue teams have found conclusive evidence the pilot of the F-22 Raptor missing since the night of Nov. 16 did not survive the crash.

Capt. Jeffrey Haney, assigned to the 3rd Wing's 525th Fighter Squadron, has been missing since the crash, however, a thorough search and rescue operation continued until today.

Captain Haney, from Clarklake, Mich., was commissioned in the U.S. Air Force in August 2003 and has been stationed here since June 2006.

"Based on evidence recovered from the crash site, and after two days of extensive aerial and ground search efforts, we know that Captain Haney did not eject from the aircraft prior to impact," said Col. Jack McMullen, 3rd Wing commander.

A recovery team at the crash site found a part of the ejection seat, along with several life support items that Captain Haney wore during the flight.

"Sadly, we can no longer consider this a search and rescue operation, but must now focus on recovery operations," Colonel McMullen said.

"We are all extremely saddened by the loss of this great American, Airman and friend," the colonel continued. "Captain Haney will be missed by the entire 3rd Wing and the (Joint Base Elmendorf) community.

"Right now, our focus is on Jeff's family," Colonel McMullen said. "We mourn their loss, and they are in our thoughts and prayers. We are doing everything in our power to offer them support and aid them during this time of grief."

The aircraft lost contact with air traffic control at 7:40 p.m. Alaska time, Nov. 16, while on a nighttime training mission. Search and rescue aircraft from the Alaska Air National Guard's 11th Rescue Coordination Center discovered the wreckage of the aircraft Nov. 17 in a remote, rugged area approximately 100 miles north of Anchorage near Denali National Park.

Airmen and Soldiers from the 3rd Wing, the 673nd Air Base Wing and U.S. Army Alaska's 3rd Maneuver Enhancement Brigade converged on the site Nov. 17 and 18 with assistance from the Alaska Air National Guard to continue the search for the pilot and prepare for recovery of the aircraft wreckage.

Recovery operations are currently underway and are expected to last several weeks. Air Force officials are standing up a safety investigation board to determine the cause of the mishap.

The Air Warrior Courage Foundation has set up an education fund for Captain Haney's children. For information, please contact Capt. Tyler Ellison at 551-5250 or via e-mail at ellisonTM@hotmail.com.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Shadow

[David Hingtgen]

We need some cheering up after that. Another legendary Hoser story---with a great custom model to illustrate it:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=218183&st=0

[David Hingtgen]

Hey, Raytheon news:

Raytheon's Rolling Airframe Missile Block 2 Completes Key Flight Test

http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1708&pagetemplate=release

[Chewie]

Something in this thread is asking for a UN and PW upon opening this page.

[anime52k8]

Something in this thread is asking for a UN and PW upon opening this page.

It just started today so I think it's because of something in David's last post.

[Ghost Train]

This really should go on the automotive thread, but the EF is just too sexy in this video for that...

Eurofighter vs. Franco-German Super-Car:

[David Hingtgen]

Ok, yeah, that's it. Didn't do it the first time though--weird. Off to edit... Seriously though--WTF at requiring a log-in to see the freely-available pic that's in their own press release?

[Chewie]

It just startled me when it popped up. Was like "OMG MACROSSWORLD NOOOOOOO......oh, it's that missing image down there."

Needless to say, my roommate was a little scared from all the yelling and talking to my computer when he knows I'm not playing CoD.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Chewie

[Knight26]

Hey, Raytheon news:

Raytheon's Rolling Airframe Missile Block 2 Completes Key Flight Test

http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1708&pagetemplate=release

About damn time, I used to work on that program and the delays frustrated me to no end.

[David Hingtgen]

The F-22 that recently crashed was 06-4125, the 525th commander's plane, and my personal fave F-22.

In other news, the last Harrier flew off the Ark Royal. The Royal Naval will now have no fixed-wing capability until the F-35 is in service.

[David Hingtgen]

F-35 bad news (is there any other kind?): The US Navy can't figure out how to get replacement engines to carriers. Won't fit in a C-2 nor V-22, and can't be unloaded during UNREP. http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/11/navy-jsf-engine-too-big-112910w/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[buddhafabio]

F-35 bad news (is there any other kind?): The US Navy can't figure out how to get replacement engines to carriers. Won't fit in a C-2 nor V-22, and can't be unloaded during UNREP. http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/11/navy-jsf-engine-too-big-112910w/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

then they either need a bigger carrier transport aircraft, or make this a reality

http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/c130_forrestal.asp

[Bowen]

F-35 bad news (is there any other kind?): The US Navy can't figure out how to get replacement engines to carriers. Won't fit in a C-2 nor V-22, and can't be unloaded during UNREP. http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/11/navy-jsf-engine-too-big-112910w/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Why didn't they think of this before?

[David Hingtgen]

Of course, it's all rather moot in the first place, being a SINGLE ENGINE Navy plane---you won't need spares for engine failures, as the plane likely won't make it back in one piece.

[Nied]

Oh for crying out loud! The F135 is almost the same size as a TF-30 (it's 20" shorter and 2" wider) and the Navy had no problems delivering it to carriers for years. I think the key graf here is that the problem occurs when the engine is packed in it's shipping container. Re-design the container and you should have no problem.

[David Hingtgen]

I presume the Navy standard engine crate is akin to a cargo LD3----so incredibly standardized and common, that everything is designed to accomodate it and only it, that you really can't change things, not without changing every other thing that interacts with it.

[Nied]

I presume the Navy standard engine crate is akin to a cargo LD3----so incredibly standardized and common, that everything is designed to accomodate it and only it, that you really can't change things, not without changing every other thing that interacts with it.

Seems like P&W's big mistake was not designing their crate to conform to the Navy's standard then. If they do that there wont be a problem. Considering that the Navy was able to get an engine just as big on their carriers for thirty years (and one made by Pratt too) they shouldn't have too big of a problem making a new crate that will fit.

[Ghost Train]

We interrupt this serious defense discussion with this exciting news. . (lol I apologize if someone's posted already).

Hobby Search has a Feb release date. The zvezda website already has instructions and pics of the runners published. I've heard zvezda kits are really hit & miss. Their SU-37 still had raised panel lines... in any event, I'll probably get this one since it's the only kit for this beauty. You can also build it with a stand it seems, which is a plus for me.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Ghost Train

[VF-19]

Now that is news to wake up to! Gonna call the local hobby shop and tell them to order one!

[David Hingtgen]

While Zvezda kits are hit-and-miss, it's really more of a "is it truly new, or a modified/copied version of a previous kit". The all-new ones are pretty much universally good. And I'm pretty sure there's no other PAK-FA kit to copy from...