LOST

[eugimon]

how long is the finale? d/l'ing 2 700Mb files for this... taking quite a while... can't wait to watch it.

2.5 hours on the TV

[Vostok 7]

WTF was that kind of ending.

[azrael]

At first:

Then: with a little

Then:

Then:

Then:

Then:

Then:

Finally:

Great ending.

[Vostok 7]

At first:

Then: with a little

Then:

Then:

Then:

Then:

Then:

Finally:

Great ending.

I have to admit, when Charlie and Claire got back together I very nearly teared up.

[eugimon]

yeah, I thought it was great ending, I half expected Jack to end up in an empty sound stage with the whole cast of the show surrounding him and slow clapping but this worked too.

[macrossnake]

It is done, I enjoy it.

[macrossnake]

It is a happy ending with no detail answers, Ben is the only one who is staying I guess...

I enjoy it.

Edited May 24, 2010 by macrossnake

[eugimon]

It is a happy ending with no detail answers, Ben is the only one who is staying I guess...

I enjoy it.

no, there was a bunch of other people.

[Vostok 7]

yeah, I thought it was great ending, I half expected Jack to end up in an empty sound stage with the whole cast of the show surrounding him and slow clapping but this worked too.

I was expecting him to walk down the isle with everyone looking back and clapping in slow motion. Funny!

[EXO]

I'm overall happy with the story but I think the alt. universe/purgatory was totally unnecessary. I would have been fine with Jack dying; Kate, Sawyer,Claire (and others) getting off, etc. The other place just coddles the audience. I'm just going to wish it off.... wish it off...

[Snail00]

I'm overall happy with the story but I think the alt. universe/purgatory was totally unnecessary. I would have been fine with Jack dying; Kate, Sawyer,Claire (and others) getting off, etc. The other place just coddles the audience. I'm just going to wish it off.... wish it off...

i really liked the ending and it was an easy way of explaining off the crazy things. I cant believe how many people got it right that it was purgatory but dont know why they the writers had to spend so much time on non real imaginary characters in purgatory ie jacob and mib if it was pointless that they were imagined characters. Something that Jacks father mentioned that not all of them died some would die later. ???? SO if Ben was not part of the original crew and therefore imaginary then why was he at the funeral???

Some things still are confusing

[eugimon]

i really liked the ending and it was an easy way of explaining off the crazy things. I cant believe how many people got it right that it was purgatory but dont know why they the writers had to spend so much time on non real imaginary characters in purgatory ie jacob and mib if it was pointless that they were imagined characters. Something that Jacks father mentioned that not all of them died some would die later. ???? SO if Ben was not part of the original crew and therefore imaginary then why was he at the funeral???

Some things still are confusing

The island wasn't purgatory, the flash sideways in L.A. was purgatory. Christian Shepard tells jack that everything that happened to him was real. It was just that some people were ready to move on and some people, like Ben and Ana Lucia, were not.

[Zor Primus]

I must admit to thinking at first the ending was weak, but after some thought I'd have to say I was pleased.

I think the best reunite moment was between Sawyer and Juliette.

So in a nut shell what happened on the island was real. Everything. The sideways story was Jack's purgatory and culminated when he died on the island as the plane with Kate, Sawyer, Lepidus, Richard and Miles took off. Hurley and Ben were left as guardians of the island until who knows when. Desmond would have recovered and left the island on his own accord?

Since time was of no consequence in the afterlife they all reunited and went to heaven together?

The MiB was killed because of losing his powers due to the uncorking of the light?

That about right?

[Hurin]

I'm not sure either timeline was purgatory. As Christian says, "everything that happened to you was real". . . and then note also that Christian doesn't say that Jack "is dead". . . he says: "you died."

That could mean he died (as we saw) on the island.

Now, here's the trick. . . it seems that they didn't just get their memories back of their time on the island up to a certain point. But they got their memories back from the "island timeline" all the way through whatever lifetimes they would have lived. So, this would explain why Kate would actually say: "I've missed you so much" when she sees Jack. Because she just flashed in from the "island timeline" where she escaped the island and lived a long, full life without Jack in it. The existence of their after-island memories in the island timeline was also indicated by Ben and Hurley seeming to share memories of being on the island long after the events we saw last night. This would seem to be vaguely supported by Christian saying that there is no "now" in that place they had created (the "church" or the whole LA timeline?). Since everyone's timeframe is different (soemtimes drastically so).

So, what was the scene in the church? They were coming together to "remember" and "let go". . . but not to "leave". . . only to "move on." Desmond says they're all "leaving". . . but Christian seems to know more about the process underway. It also seems that nobody interacts directly with Christian except Jack (although Desmond might be looking at Christian at some point).

So the question for me is: As Christian opens the doors to the church and the white light floods in, everyone looks back at the opening doors (and sees the light?). . . are they in some magical "smoker's lounge" on the way to the afterlife? Are they all "borrowing" these bodies in this alternate timeline in order to have this event together? Are they about to be raptured to heaven? Or, by "moving on" by "letting go," are they all going to now get up, and go out into this better, happier world that they've "created for each other." Given that everything was "real" and "everything that happened really happened" (according to Christian), it's hard to just dismiss the LA timeline as a spiritual realm or purgatory. There's still too much "corporal" about it. I don't think, in order for purgatory to work, that you need to do all the shenanigans that Desmond arranges. If it's a purgatory, it's a metaphorical one. But I think that timeline actually does exist. . . created somehow by the nuclear device going off?

Oh, BTW, I f'ing hate that they put this ambiguity in there and left it so open for interpretation. Is it too much to ask in today's popular culture that a writer just tell a story that has a concrete beginning, middle, and end? I'm not reading a f'ing "choose your own adventure book" (if you want them to be in purgatory, read page 27!).

But, regardless, I think you could make a case either way for them all being dead even at the moment where they're all meeting in the church. It could be sorta an "epilogue" after they've all died somehow over the years. But, that doesn't seem to account for all the other information we were given. I have no idea where they're "going" from the church. If they're all dead and have been dead for a while and this is all just some "after party". . . I suppose they're headed to the afterlife. But that makes the LA timeline a lot less "real" since there's no transition from that "real but different" timeline. I personally think that they're all now going to take part in the new LA timeline. I do wonder, though, if they have merged with their LA timeline consciousnesses, or if they fully supplanted them. Locke saying that Jack doesn't have a son seems to indicate the latter, which would tend to undermine the idea that the LA timeline was ever more than an artificial, meaningless construct for them to "work out their poo" in. . .

Meh. . .whichever. . . all I can say is that the finale was darn near perfect until they decided to go all f'ing wishy-washy at the end for no real reason other than to keep up their "I confused the hell out of my audience" street cred with their fellow writers (a 'la The Sopranos). It's getting to the point now where I think I'd just rather watch The Real Housewives of New York with my wife where the show can't f' with you just to f' with you at the very end just because they can. They really didn't need to throw this angle in at the end, Lost was already one of the most amazing, original stories told on television ever.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Hurin

[Funkenstein]

This is why SF shouldn't do time travel stories. It always ends up like this. I suppose they had to do something to make the time travel plots relevant .

The scenes in the ending credits, though, hint that everyone was already dead when the plane crashed, and the entire show was some guys death spasms.

[Ghost Train]

I'm fairly certain that:

Main Timeline on the island: really happened

Alternate Timeline: purgatory

Christian makes that clear. The island itself was not purgatory. Otherwise why bother creating yet a second timeline during the last season? \

Also, what was at the heart of the island? Notice the color

Red Matter? (As seen on Alias & Star Trek) which could explain the time-space properties of the island. Though this is obviously the wrong answer lol.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Ghost Train

[Hurin]

It's hard to assert though that the alternate timeline was any less real than anything else. I mean, it was said to be "created". . . how? By wishes of ghosts? I think conventional wisdom is that Jughead going off created it. In which case there's some "sci-fi science" to all this mysticism. But some people don't think Jughead created the LA timeline. They're convinced it just caused them to jump in time again.

It really all comes down to this: Did Jack really have a son or not?

If not, then you believe it was all just a spiritual plane of existence.

If so, then you probably believe that the Losties awoke in that timeline. But whether they're going to stay there (which doesn't seem fair to the versions of themselves that appear to have been fully supplanted), and where they're "going". . . who knows.

[azrael]

I'll reply under the cover of spoilers till the end of the day since it was airing till fairly late and people might not have caught the entire finale.

So in a nut shell what happened on the island was real. Everything. The sideways story was Jack's purgatory and culminated when he died on the island as the plane with Kate, Sawyer, Lepidus, Richard and Miles took off. Hurley and Ben were left as guardians of the island until who knows when. Desmond would have recovered and left the island on his own accord?

Since time was of no consequence in the afterlife they all reunited and went to heaven together?

The MiB was killed because of losing his powers due to the uncorking of the light?

That about right?

Yeah, that sounds right. Everything they went through was real and they all died, eventually. The Alt-timeline is their special Purgatory/Train station/Bus Stop/waiting room. All of them made that place as their way of finding each other once they died and were ready to move on. But the island was real and so were all the people.

[jvmacross]

It's hard to assert though that the alternate timeline was any less real than anything else. I mean, it was said to be "created". . . how? By wishes of ghosts? I think conventional wisdom is that Jughead going off created it. In which case there's some "sci-fi science" to all this mysticism. But some people don't think Jughead created the LA timeline. They're convinced it just caused them to jump in time again.

It really all comes down to this: Did Jack really have a son or not?

If not, then you believe it was all just a spiritual plane of existence.

If so, then you probably believe that the Losties awoke in that timeline. But whether they're going to stay there (which doesn't seem fair to the versions of themselves that appear to have been fully supplanted), and where they're "going". . . who knows.

First post ever...funny it is not about Macross....

I know this is extrapolation, but being that the ending sort of leaves everything open to interpretaion...is it possible that if you take the ALT reality as face-value (purgatory/waiting area/cleansing area/not ready to go into the light area)...that everyone else in it is basically also dead and just "working things" out....if so, then perhaps Jack's son is also doing the same....we just do not know his background story...perhaps he never had a dad...and in this "waiting area" he has the dad he always wanted.....the whole thing sort of reminds me of the movie Jacob's Ladder or An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge.......

Some of the things that I still do not understand are the following:

Who were Widmore and Eloise? Why were they fearful and/or wanted to possess the islands power...and did they really know what it really represented? What did Widmore tell the fake Locke? How did Widmore know how to contain the smoke monster? (for this I am beginning to think that Widmore was a descendant of some of the initial island inhabitants who happened to "discover" that the islands pockets of electromagnetism kept them "safe" from the smoke monster...again, since this was not explained it is all open to interpretation)...

Why did Jacob reappear as a boy?

Illana and her team.....who were they really? They sort of reminded me of that secret society that protected the Holy Grail in the Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade movie.....

Why did the MIB have to die? I still do not think he was evil...he was just a victim of circumstance....I would have preferred that (after he lost his "powers")....he would have been allowed to leave the island with Sawyer, kate, etc on the plane...he could have returned to the REAL world and just live the rest of his life as LOCKE....no one would have known.....except Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Richard and Lapidis that were on the plane.....I feel sorry for him, what happened to his mom, and what he became....we never even found out his real name

All in all, I was satisfied with the ending...I think the show set a high standard and will be hard to top......

[Keith]

So from what I'm reading here, this was basically a really long version of Jacob's Ladder?

[Funkenstein]

So from what I'm reading here, this was basically a really long version of Jacob's Ladder?

Its a lot less psychedelic than Jacobs Ladder, and much less demon sex.

[Keith]

Its a lot less psychedelic than Jacobs Ladder, and much less demon sex.

Sounds like they dropped the ball a b it

[EXO]

Keith is still astounded by the way he can sum up properties by naming other properties. It's like his superhero power. He's the Aquaman of nerdom.

[Uxi]

Yeah, that sounds right. Everything they went through was real and they all died, eventually. The Alt-timeline is their special Purgatory/Train station/Bus Stop/waiting room. All of them made that place as their way of finding each other once they died and were ready to move on. But the island was real and so were all the people.

Agreed, that was my impression.

Christian's explanation to Jack echoes Augustine's commentary on time and it's specific relationship to this universe (and

it's non-sequitur relevance, or lack thereof, outside of it). I definitely got the sense it wasn't just in Jack's head, though, but something shared and communal. Just their overlap came at different... periods (with the realizations, as depicted )

Edited May 24, 2010 by Uxi

[jenius]

Just watched it. My first impression is one that others have echoed, alt LA is not an actual location but a spiritual gathering place (purgatory-esque but a theologian would argue vehemently against that with the main commonality being that it's a point before heaven). The good news is that it being an alt location makes Eloise and Miles' fathers odd abilities in this alt universe easily dismissed. The stained glass window in the church represented all the major religions which was an interesting eye catch before we started getting told the answers. I agree with whoever said the alt universe was essentially a fan-wank although generally I think the fans wanted "and they lived happily ever after" rather than "and they all joined each other to move on from a plane of meandering souls to heaven." I wonder why Miles, Richard, and Milpitas weren't present? I assume they weren't there as to not confuse viewers into thinking the plane had crashed but since there was no "now" that doesn't make a ton of sense. I guess the argument might be that those three characters had more significant experiences off the island, or with different people on the island, so they might have gathered with others (same with Ekko I suppose). I'm guessing David elected to hold off so he could spend some time with the redhead since they never got to do that in their actual existence.

Since David and Ben stuck around, that must mean the alt universe would keep going, so the next episode of Lost would open in the Alt universe with Anna Lucia arriving at a church where the original cast would be all found dead and the scene would be declared a cult suicide I suppose . Also, Wasn't Penny absent from the group? That makes sense in some regard since the island wasn't a memory to her... but does that mean she was just a place-holder spirit in that alt reality? Could an argument be made that the alt universe really is more like purgatory than I'm giving it credit for and since Ben and Anna Lucia did commit far more sins they MUST spend more time in the alt universe before moving on? That doesn't seem right though, it seemed like Ben was sticking around to be Alex's dad... LOL, or maybe kill Penny.

In the end I feel a lot toward Lost like I did toward BSG. It was an awesome show, with some really intense episodes, but in the end I wished they had had a direction earlier on so it didn't feel like some avenues went no where (I'm looking at you Starbuck). Maybe I just need a Lostpedia book or something to tie all the kernels of info I got together to make everything a bit more cohesive but I have the impression that where we ended up is not something that was dreamed up until season 3.

EDIT - is it just me or was the episode where Jack found his son at the recital now seem like it had a bunch of wasted time in it. If his son is utterly unimportant, why do we really care if he was bonding with him. I guess you could do some deep studies on that, in the fantasy spirit world Jack is trying to insert himself as a father figure but subconsciously he knows that's never been him... but still, with the show rushing to a conclusion it really seems like that time could have been better spent.

Edited May 25, 2010 by jenius

[Keith]

Keith is still astounded by the way he can sum up properties by naming other properties. It's like his superhero power. He's the Aquaman of nerdom.

I wouldn't say I was astounded by it, I can't very well be surprised by my own natural ability afterall.

[EXO]

OK... Aquaman...

EDIT - is it just me or was the episode where Jack found his son at the recital now seem like it had a bunch of wasted time in it. If his son is utterly unimportant, why do we really care if he was bonding with him. I guess you could do some deep studies on that, in the fantasy spirit world Jack is trying to insert himself as a father figure but subconsciously he knows that's never been him... but still, with the show rushing to a conclusion it really seems like that time could have been better spent.

That's the thing about the alt. storyline that bugged me. They put so much into investing us like Jin and Sun's upcoming kid, Sayid meeting up with Nadia, etc. And on the last episode they just threw all that away arbitrarily.

If the main story wasn't so good... I guess as long as they messed up the other timeline, but it seemed like a lot of time wasted they could have put into actual story. The alt. universe was really fun up to this point though.

[spacemanoeuvres]

Watched this last night.

Overall I found it very entertaining. There were some intense moments and I was very satisfied with the way jates story ended. At the same time, I wish there was a bit more time spent touching on the island and it's weirdness.

The fight at the end was very matrix'esque (running full tilt at each other in the rain) hehehe

EXO - I'm 99% that Penny was at the church. But wtf were Michael and Walt? I could have sworn there were reports of these actors filming pieces for the finale but I don't remember seeing them anywhere...? I guess their time on the island was not the most important part of their lives? Maybe they're going to be in the additional footage for the dvd?

At any rate, I've been frustrated with this show for the last few seasons (sometimes more than others) and I didn't want to like the end as much as I did...but I think it was pretty good.

[eugimon]

Watched this last night.

Overall I found it very entertaining. There were some intense moments and I was very satisfied with the way jates story ended. At the same time, I wish there was a bit more time spent touching on the island and it's weirdness.

The fight at the end was very matrix'esque (running full tilt at each other in the rain) hehehe

EXO - I'm 99% that Penny was at the church. But wtf were Michael and Walt? I could have sworn there were reports of these actors filming pieces for the finale but I don't remember seeing them anywhere...? I guess their time on the island was not the most important part of their lives? Maybe they're going to be in the additional footage for the dvd?

At any rate, I've been frustrated with this show for the last few seasons (sometimes more than others) and I didn't want to like the end as much as I did...but I think it was pretty good.

Penny was at the church, She was sitting with Desmond. Walt wasn't there, it's been said that his story was one of the arcs that wouldn't be resolved and Michael is a Whisperer now, stuck to the island for what he did.

[bob joe mac]

Mediocre ending with to many plot plots left open with no real hints or such incredible vague ones it makes me wonder if the creators knew the answears themselves.

One of the main questions from the 1st episode was WTF is the smoke monster... ok so it was MIB who turned into the smoke monster when him and his bro got into a fight and thrown into a magic glowing cave... so... the smoke monsters explanation was "oh... ummm magic cave stuff turned him into a black smoke monster that sounds like a train or something because... no real reason." Then after that episode I was waiting for a explanation about the mother who was she some sort of god? Angel?

Jacob the guy who never associated with the humans believed they were all good and nice so why were the "others", jacobs group, so damn insane going to such measures as to kill more or less innocent people just to reasearch a baby.

Babies... why were they so damn important why did the others need to kidnap and research walt and claire and rossious kid and kill everyone else in the way.

That Ethan guy from the earlier seasons why did he have super strength when by the end of the show it seemed the only real "power" granted to the people by magic super people was the ability to not age.

What made the magic evil numbers so magically evil?

I mean I can think of answears to all the questions but most of them ARE just oh... it was magic/gods/super natural nonsense I just want a show/movie/game/book like lost not to have a "cause" explanation for half the plot holes with no real explation...

As many problems I had with lost I still enjoyed it mostly up until the last 2 seasons where the story telling just became a nonsensical plot twist after plot twist. I just think they should have started the explanations and what not more then a few episodes before the finale.

Now I apologize if some of these questions are pointless if they were actually answeared in the show but I've only watched through it once and have never read any of the supplementary material.

[Uxi]

The alt timeline stuff (Jack and Juliette's son, etc) wasn't 'wasted' since I believe it's more accurately called a red herring (in story progression terms), along a bit of fan-wank "what if" combined with some Sliders/alt-universe extrapolation.

[jenius]

Here's another oddity... going into the light "is worse than death" unless you're Desmond or Jack? I'm guessing Desmond is excluded because the light has some electro-magnetic quality that for some reason Desmond is immune too (perhaps from his time in the hatch). Shouldn't Jack have become a smoke monster? If not a smoke monster, shouldn't he have some how been worse off than being allowed to wander a while before dying in the bamboo forest?

[azrael]

Could an argument be made that the alt universe really is more like purgatory than I'm giving it credit for and since Ben and Anna Lucia did commit far more sins they MUST spend more time in the alt universe before moving on? That doesn't seem right though, it seemed like Ben was sticking around to be Alex's dad... LOL, or maybe kill Penny.

It's not really the punishment-sense of purgatory that is common in mythology. It's more like a rest-stop or train station/bus stop/waiting room. People are there because as Eloise and Desmond said, they're not ready yet.

And BTW, (Linky)

Turns out two and a half hours just wasn't enough screen time for Lost producers Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse to tell the whole story they wanted to tell us. An ABC source confirms to me that after Sunday’s series finale, titled "The End," airs from 9 – 11:30 pm ET/PT, the season six DVD (as well as the complete series collection, out on DVD and Blu-ray August 24) will continue the saga with upwards of twenty minutes of additional storyline.

[jvmacross]

.

Edited April 19 by jvmacross

[Hurin]

I think there's a lot of evidence for the ALT timeline being "real" (and not just a spiritual/afterlife realm).

After all, the whole point of the last few episodes of last season was the explicit attempt to create a timeline where the plane didn't crash. Then you have Juliette's "it worked" transmitted by Miles. The very next scene (in the next season) is Flight 815 flying over a sunken island.

Then throw in Desmond and his demonstrated ability to travel between multiple timelines. His first journey took place when he pressed the emergency button in the hatch, and came into contact with Faraday (sp?) and Faraday's mother in an alternate timeline (that sure didn't seem like a spirit realm). He seemed to be unique in his ability to sense both universes and arrange to "awaken" the others in the Alt timeline.

To me, Christian's statement that "you all created this place where you could find each other, remember, and let go" is pretty clearly referring to the nuke going off and the creation of the alt timeline. I guess the producers once said that it's not clear either way whether the alt universe was created by the nuke. But, well, they're always saying sh*t like that just to f' with the fans (and they once asserted boldly that there would be no time travel in the show, etc.).

I'm no expert in theology or mysticism. But I don't know of any "religious mechanism" by which each person creates their own purgatory and is then able to populate it via their own mentally conjured tools in order to find their way to enlightenment. I've read that Jack's son (David) is a creation of Jack's to help him sort out his daddy issues. How does that work? Jack has a hand in creating his own "fix it" mental/spiritual universe where he creates his own son? And the spirits of all his friends are along for the ride and/or are alongside him working their own stuff out?" That is, until their main timeline memories come flooding back? It doesn't seem like the "purgatory" spiritual place was actually necessary at all. . . because as soon as their island memories came back, it was time to go! And it's not even clear that whatever growth and/or happiness they found in the alt timeline was actually retained in their memories as soon as the "awoke" and had their island memories back. So it seems odd that the alt timeline is seen only as a place where they figure out their crap and become "ready." It's not much of a purgatory if the way you get out is to have some dude make you remember stuff that never happened to you as far as you know.

Here's my personal take on it all: The alt timeline is just as "real" as the island timeline. However, once their consciousnesses come over from the island timelime, it's apparent, since they've all already "died" (some long after the events we see in the show), that they don't belong where they've awakened. So, they gather together to "let go" and "move on" in that church. My own personal belief/hope is that they exit the church into the bright light and move on to the next life, but David isn't deprived of his father and Locke's wife (?) isn't deprived of her husband because they also stay behind with the consciousnesses of those originally from that timeline (though perhaps with a merged memory of the island timeline folks).

Regardless, I think this was the writer's trick to have Jack's death actually matter and be melancholy even along with a "happy ending." Without all the spiritual stuff at the end, his death would have been a lot less poetic. It's hard to feel bad for the dude dying if we know he's just transferred into the alt-timeline Jack. This way, there's closure and a sense of loss. And it's also sad to think of Kate, Sawyer (etc.) living out the rest of their days in the island timeline while missing/mourning their fallen friends.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Hurin