Prometheus - on Blu-Ray and DVD Oct. 9, 2012

[jenius]

It makes even less sense to me now.

[Keith]

It makes even less sense to me now.

Which part is confusing you? Is it that someone in the future is a fan of 70's MOR? or that a black man from the future is a fan of 70's MOR?

[jenius]

If its an obscure reference now imagine now obscure it is then... and to have a possession of his and to expect others to know him?

Edit - it makes less sense because I thought I knew who that guy was... and I was wrong so the reference seems more obscure... but maybe everyone else knows and loves that guy.

Edited June 26, 2012 by jenius

[Ghost Train]

I am the real winner of this thread because I understand that if you're accelerating, your speed is increasing!

[Mog]

^^No, if you're accelerating, it means your velocity is changing.

You can be going at a constant 40 miles per hour. But if you're doing a steady 40 mph while turning in a circle, you're changing your direction (and thus, changing your velocity), meaning you're accelerating. Constant speed, but still accelerating.

High school physics and calculus have served me well!

[Ghost Train]

^^No, if you're accelerating, it means your velocity is changing.

You can be going at a constant 40 miles per hour. But if you're doing a steady 40 mph while turning in a circle, you're changing your direction (and thus, changing your velocity), meaning you're accelerating. Constant speed, but still accelerating.

High school physics and calculus have served me well!

I admit that I forgot about change in direction, but it wasn't a factor a few pages ago, when trying to dispel the notion that you can... drift as leisurely out of the atmosphere.

[Mog]

Ahh, forgot about that.

So in order to drift as leisurely out of the atmosphere, what would the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow have to be?

[Keith]

@Keith

I'm happy you enjoyed the movie, but I wouldn't say everyone's issues with the movie are nitpicking, or even related to the fuzzy motivations of the Engineers. Personally, I would have been disappointed if they had laid out a clear understanding of the Engineers. Mystery is good in a story like this. You don't need to answer all the questions.

My problems were fundamental flaws in the writing. There were some pretty glaring examples of bad writing there.

It was definitely a very pretty movie, and if I'd been able to forgive two or three major flaws I'd have come away feeling the movie was pretty good.

Mystery is great, but I think too much hinged on the actions of the engineers to leave their motivations "that" vague.

If its an obscure reference now imagine now obscure it is then... and to have a possession of his and to expect others to know him?

Edit - it makes less sense because I thought I knew who that guy was... and I was wrong so the reference seems more obscure... but maybe everyone else knows and loves that guy.

Considering this is a suedo prequel to a movie from '79, it's not that obscure a reference. The Captain was obviously from the south, had an affinity towards light country-ish music as well as memorabilia related to it. In the future of an age where any & everything has been recorded for postarity, there's no reason to believe "oldies" will be forgotten. His reference to "love the one you're with" was presented more as a joke to himself as something that the crew would be familiar with. Wise words he took to heart if you will.

As for you not being familiar with Stills, let alone Crosby Stills & Nash, that I find more puzzling. What are you like 20?

[Phyrox]

Yeah, Crosby, Stills and Nash aren't really that obscure...and I don't even like 'em.

[Radd]

Mystery is great, but I think too much hinged on the actions of the engineers to leave their motivations "that" vague.

I agree. I don't think nothing should have been explained. I'm only saying that the lack of a detailed, thorough and clear understanding of the Engineers, their society and their motivations would not have made the movie better, and would have actually been detrimental.

[anime52k8]

I admit that I forgot about change in direction, but it wasn't a factor a few pages ago, when trying to dispel the notion that you can... drift as leisurely out of the atmosphere.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00343.htm

[DarrinG]

Saw it last night and came out more frustrated, confused and disappointed than entertained.

YES - It could be that I had 20 years of anticipation and expectations to meet. There was also the pressure that I took the owners of my company to see it on my faith that Ridley would certainly knock it out of the park and they would be impressed.

They were not impressed so much.

I few compliments and gripes (spoilers):

• Compliments - visually stunning. Self operation scene was intense and awesome, my favorite part of the film. The imagination and creativity of future technologies, nicely done. All sets and details were amazing.

Gripes-

• Beginning flew by too fast, not enough character development, they were in too big a hurry to get somewhere else in the story.

• Can Shaw wear a little less foundation makeup? When she looked through the hole in the cave right at the opening I wanted to scrape it off with a knife. Small nitpick, not sure why that one bothered me...

• Theron (vickers?) character would not have made the trip to see her dad succeed or fail. She would have stayed on Earth hoping he failed, living a trillionaire lifestyle, hoping they all died, or he died, so she could be rid of him at last.

• Gray worm things - just bad, not needed -- or needed a better explanation more than we got. Felt random. Felt cheap too. Of course the actor trying to pet them, talking to them in a goochie-goo voice was TERRIBLE, he was a pure wimp a little while ago! Was one of those - "HEY BUDDY - Don't you watch horror films? That thing is about to eat you! Everyone knows this BUT YOU!" Dumb - badly executed scene(s)...

• And for more randomness - the zombie coming alive with super human strength and wreaking havoc in the ship. Either have more crew suffering this fate or none. It comes off as filler, random violence. That character (tattooed, mohawked guy) was pissed right from the beginning, instead of becoming realistically pissed later. How about him become psycho AFTER he gets lost in the caves??

• Scene where David tries to speak to the Engineer. It was shocking how it went, but anti-climactic. He's waking up after a 2,000 year sleep? He says nothing back before tearing everyone up? Its not a flaw, just a let down.

• The relationship between the captain and Shaw was not strong enough for him to give his life so instantly on her tired, panicked and exhausted request. And certainly 2 other crew joining in without question, to give their lives based on a lady planetside near death, screaming and ranting was not believable. The captain or 2 crew would have been like "Let's get her on board and figure this thing out and get out of here!" They had no history with her - she could have been a kook for all they know, and they are willing to commit suicide so quickly and without fear or doubt based on one rant? I think I'm kind of brave, but based on what I would have seen and known to that point I am not taking part in ramming my ship and protective home for the past few years into something I know nothing about for someone I know nothing about...

• BIG GRIPE - There are multiple ships left! The Engineer would not have cared to chase down Shaw. He would have gone to another ship, tried to awaken some of the his brothers from sleep pods (if there are any left) and tried to fly out of there. Chase down a puny human at that moment? Horrible. Not intelligent storytelling - more like we need the bad guy to chase our main character for a more action packed ending...

• And how does Shaw know that by opening the door the thing will attack her attacker? Felt cheesy. Felt like The Blob VS Hellraiser. Was embarrassed. Squid monster didn't need so many mouths and super scary eye things underneath, again felt cheesy.

• No need for ending chest burst scene. Felt forced. Like Ridley added it to give in to requests. The Alien looked too big, not just born too, did not like the design - more randomness and cheapness to top the whole thing off...

Wish this was not so spot on:

Edited June 28, 2012 by DarrinG

[Keith]

Now I don't see the issue with the worms. We see worms crawling through the soil before hand, we see black goo spill into the soil, voila, much bigger & violent worms. The same thing happened to them as what happened to the bearded guy who gut the face full of acid, ressurected by the black goo as a much stronger & more violent version of himself.

[taksraven]

Looks like the lack of box office success for this will prevent any further films. Bit of a pity. Maybe.

[jenius]

I'm guessing that's sarcasm? It's already grossed twice its budget of $130MIL.

[taksraven]

I'm guessing that's sarcasm? It's already grossed twice its budget of $130MIL.

Not sarcasm really. We all know that the production budget generally does not factor in the advertising budget (which can nearly be as high as the cost of the actual film)

In all honesty, in this day and age, I reckon that the film would have to make at least 500 mil overall to justify a sequel. I know that there will be more money from Blu-Ray and DVD sales but I don't see it getting another go.

[myk]

Saw it last night and came out more frustrated, confused and disappointed than entertained.

YES - It could be that I had 20 years of anticipation and expectations to meet. There was also the pressure that I took the owners of my company to see it on my faith that Ridley would certainly knock it out of the park and they would be impressed.

They were not impressed so much.

I few compliments and gripes (spoilers)....

I agree with everything you posted, especially the parts about the white snakes and the 'Xeno at the end. The film leaves you with more questions than answers, and...I get that it's supposed to be like that but I still think it's unsatisfactory. But again let me say this, I liked the movie and will definitely be blu-raying this thing. Now, I'm just as confusing as the movie...

[David Hingtgen]

I don't see as huge an issue with the "sacrificing the ship for a stranger" bit. I mean, from the crew's perspective---in the last 48 hours they have seen some truly horrifying things, and found out that yes, there are vastly superior alien beings out there with unfathomable technologies. And they know they know about Earth and have been there before. So if things start going to hell, and one of the people who just came out from the "inner core" of the alien's place says "the aliens are royally pissed at us and are going to wipe out planet Earth in 60 secs" it might not be that hard to believe at the moment---and the consequences of not acting are severe, to say the least.

[DarrinG]

Survival instincts are severe in most creatures, especially in humans. Often we will kill others or worse in order to stay alive.

Not sure 3 men, 2 on the younger side, decide instantly on a woman's word they hardly know to cash it all in.

I stay alive on the ship, pick up the panicked lady, we figure out a plan and return to earth...

[Mog]

However, humans have sacrificed themselves for far less, whether it's a nation, an idea, a belief, or especially, for loved ones.

Pretty sure if the survival of the human race (and my family) was in my hands and I had a chance to eliminate that threat, I'd take it.

Besides there's no telling what the capabilities of the Engineer's ship were or whether Prometheus would ever have a chance to catch up with them again.

Take the shot while you still have the opportunity.

[DarrinG]

I just don't think if I'm one of those 2 younger guys I would believe that ship taking off would be headed to earth at all, let alone have the ability to destroy my home world. At least not believe it enough to kill myself for it without asking some damn questions!

And speaking of survival instincts - if I'm lost in alien caves, with dead bodies all around (will holes in their bellies?) and something slithers by in the swamp goo under my feet I'm outta there. I mean in a friggin hurry.

And if I am dumb enough to stick around to see a snake alien pop up and its not afraid of me, that's it, I'm jumping straight to heaven...

[myk]

I can see Dave's point of view, but then I would say that they didn't do nearly enough to establish the conviction of the Prometheus' crew to prevent those horrors from reaching Earth. They attempted to do so with Shaw and the Captain's scene in her room but that was SO weak. Finally, what the hell kind of ship wanders out into the middle of nowhere with NO weapons of any sort? I realize it's a science vessel but c'mon-we're talking Weyland Corporation here; those mother f'ers think of everything 100 steps in advance...

Edited June 29, 2012 by myk

[EXO]

Was the suicide necessary? They were billions of miles from the earth. If that was the firefly or any other scifi vessel. Captain mal or Kirk would have gotten aboard that ship kicked the Engineer's ass and turned on the self destruct. What we saw was the classic" we only have ten minutes left in the film, we have to do something!!!!"

Did Ripley crash the Sulaco on LV-426? No she went back into the heart of the hive and kicked ass. If Idris Elba was the lead, that's exactly what woulda happened.

[Radd]

Was the suicide necessary? They were billions of miles from the earth. If that was the firefly or any other scifi vessel. Captain mal or Kirk would have gotten aboard that ship kicked the Engineer's ass and turned on the self destruct. What we saw was the classic" we only have ten minutes left in the film, we have to do something!!!!"

Did Ripley crash the Sulaco on LV-426? No she went back into the heart of the hive and kicked ass. If Idris Elba was the lead, that's exactly what woulda happened.

Ok, as much as I dislike the movie and it's bad writing, I can't agree with this.

First of all, that was NOT the Enterprise, not the Firefly, not the Macross. It didn't have converging beam cannons, photon torpedoes, teleporters, shuttle craft, or a forceful entry airlock. If it did have any of these things it would have been extremely out of place.

Hell, we saw pretty definitely that the Engineer ships far outclassed the Prometheus in every way. A couple more seconds and they'd have zipped away at lightspeed and been halfway to Earth before the Prometheus could break atmosphere. So, no, the Kirk or Ripley approaches would not only not have been applicable in this situation, but would actually have been far more nonsensical than anything else in an already nonsensical movie.

[EXO]

Ok, as much as I dislike the movie and it's bad writing, I can't agree with this.

First of all, that was NOT the Enterprise, not the Firefly, not the Macross. It didn't have converging beam cannons, photon torpedoes, teleporters, shuttle craft, or a forceful entry airlock. If it did have any of these things it would have been extremely out of place.

Hell, we saw pretty definitely that the Engineer ships far outclassed the Prometheus in every way. A couple more seconds and they'd have zipped away at lightspeed and been halfway to Earth before the Prometheus could break atmosphere. So, no, the Kirk or Ripley approaches would not only not have been applicable in this situation, but would actually have been far more nonsensical than anything else in an already nonsensical movie.

Yes, but that's my point. There's a lot of non-sensical things going on and they could have easily tacked on anything to the script because that's what they did throughout the movie. And no part of the movie was the hard serious scifi it was pretending to be and it really was just an Alien clone that tried to distance itself from. And unlike Alien, where each character was given some importance to the point that the audience didn't know whether or not anyone was going to survive or if anyone was going to at all. Here, Elizabeth Shaw remained the protagonist of the story for no particular reason. She's going to survive and everyone else was going to get killed arbitrarily. A pursuit of the engineer's ship could have been achieved in a non schlocky way and is accepted in many finales. One of those other guys could have just stood up and said, "I think there's another way to do this." But the decision to off the captain and crew was just another random way to kill off more characters, just like ejecting the capsule was just another unnecessary device to have the ship crush Charlize Theron. Again, she was presented as the cold hard bitch that people wished dead, but I saw her as the only one that made sense, though as someone mentioned, her presence on the ship was another thing that didn't make sense. But her character was probably one that matched Ripley the most out of the whole crew and if the film presented her as the protagonist, I think it would have made more sense for the audience to root for her. But honestly, I wouldn't have a problem with the kamikaze style demise of the Prometheus if it wasn't done so poorly.

[Radd]

A pursuit of the engineer's ship could have been achieved in a non schlocky way and is accepted in many finales.

It would work in Star Trek, it would work in Firefly, it would work in Herlock, it would work in Macross....but those are actiony super sci-fi space western/opera shows with mechanics that allow for that. As opposed to a more low-tech world like Prometheus with such a huge tech disparity between them and the aliens. Trying to shoehorn that kind of action power fantasy into this would have been out of place and extremely schlocky.

Admittedly, much of the movie was schlocky, from the cheesy, B-movie creature designs to the poorly written no-rules alien goop, but I don't think trying to force a Star Trek action ending would have really added anything positive besides some cheap, "America! $^&@-YEAH!" fist pumping unless you went back and rewrote the script from the beginning to make it seem more plausible but then it would still be more out of place than going back and building up the characters for the kamikaze run better which would make more sense if you're going back in time to rewrite the movie better anyways.

Not to mention, the Ripley comparison falls apart completely. In Alien, she blew up the ship she was already on and escaped in a pod. In Aliens, with the aid of Marines and their gear who went on a military expedition prepared for combat against feral alien monsters not sentient aliens with far superior tech, she went to a human installation on the planet she was already on and set it to blow, then escaped on a craft which was up to the job of outrunning the explosion, not trying to catch a superior tech faster than light craft that had a head start.

It's like comparing apples and the Large Hadron Collider.

[Oihan]

Again, I think what I quoted earlier has some merit. "If a big budget movie or a movie from a big franchise dosn't live up to its hype or bypass decades worth of thousands of movies then its complete crap. It's pretty insane how we expect every new movie to be better than the best and if it isnt its crap."

Yes, the movie isn't without flaws...but what movie is? Like everyone else was essentially telling me in regards to The Avengers...why can't Prometheus be enjoyed for what it is?

Edited June 29, 2012 by Oihan

[Radd]

"If a big budget movie or a movie from a big franchise dosn't live up to its hype or bypass decades worth of thousands of movies then its complete crap. It's pretty insane how we expect every new movie to be better than the best and if it isnt its crap."

Dismissing legitimate complaints about a movie by saying "the only reason people are complaining at all is because of unreasonable hype" is complete crap.

Avengers wasn't perfect, but it didn't have the sheer amount of egregious writing issues and I'd argue it had just as much hype and elevated expectations to deal with. (More, actually. Come on, after Resurrection and the AvP movies, Prometheus' script just needed to be halfway competent and most people complaining now would have enjoyed it thoroughly.)

[EXO]

[/font][/color]

Dismissing legitimate complaints about a movie by saying "the only reason people are complaining at all is because of unreasonable hype" is complete crap.

Avengers wasn't perfect, but it didn't have the sheer amount of egregious writing issues and I'd argue it had just as much hype and elevated expectations to deal with. (More, actually. Come on, after Resurrection and the AvP movies, Prometheus' script just needed to be halfway competent and most people complaining now would have enjoyed it thoroughly.)

Letting the ending argument go because at this point we're just discussing something that can never be proven, but 100% agreement here. Let me just day though that there is a way to enjoy it. The trick, Radd, is not minding it hurts.

[TehPW]

[/font][/color]

It would work in Star Trek, it would work in Firefly, it would work in Herlock, it would work in Macross....but those are actiony super sci-fi space western/opera shows with mechanics that allow for that. As opposed to a more low-tech world like Prometheus with such a huge tech disparity between them and the aliens. Trying to shoehorn that kind of action power fantasy into this would have been out of place and extremely schlocky.

Admittedly, much of the movie was schlocky, from the cheesy, B-movie creature designs to the poorly written no-rules alien goop, but I don't think trying to force a Star Trek action ending would have really added anything positive besides some cheap, "America! $^&@-YEAH!" fist pumping unless you went back and rewrote the script from the beginning to make it seem more plausible but then it would still be more out of place than going back and building up the characters for the kamikaze run better which would make more sense if you're going back in time to rewrite the movie better anyways.

Not to mention, the Ripley comparison falls apart completely. In Alien, she blew up the ship she was already on and escaped in a pod. In Aliens, with the aid of Marines and their gear who went on a military expedition prepared for combat against feral alien monsters not sentient aliens with far superior tech, she went to a human installation on the planet she was already on and set it to blow, then escaped on a craft which was up to the job of outrunning the explosion, not trying to catch a superior tech faster than light craft that had a head start.

It's like comparing apples and the Large Hadron Collider.

actually it was the marines who caused enough damage with their crew service 'Smart Guns' to force the plant to eventually explode. Ripley just went b*tch mode to rescue Newt... but yeah! KICK ASS America... derp.

[renegadeleader1]

actually it was the marines who caused enough damage with their crew service 'Smart Guns' to force the plant to eventually explode. Ripley just went b*tch mode to rescue Newt... but yeah! KICK ASS America... derp.

Nope it was the Dropship going durka durka into the processor after the pilot got killed that caused it to meltdown.

[Radd]

actually it was the marines who caused enough damage with their crew service 'Smart Guns' to force the plant to eventually explode. Ripley just went b*tch mode to rescue Newt... but yeah! KICK ASS America... derp.

I should re-watch it. Been a while. I always liked the first movie better. Love Aliens, too, but it's much more of a "Vietnam in space" action power fantasy than the suspense-horror that was Alien.

Letting the ending argument go because at this point we're just discussing something that can never be proven, but 100% agreement here. Let me just day though that there is a way to enjoy it. The trick, Radd, is not minding it hurts.

Heh. Yeah. I was just playing Devil's Advocate out of boredom. Last day of work before a week off, not much to be done. I'm not convinced your idea would make the movie worse, just it would have been as schlocky as the already out of place and schlocky alien love goo which seemed to be able to do everything from creating the building blocks of life for an entire world from a single specimen amd summon the alien squid from Watchmen to creating a 7' tall space zombie. (It can also remove stains and goes great on sandwiches!)

[Oihan]

[/font][/color]

Dismissing legitimate complaints about a movie by saying "the only reason people are complaining at all is because of unreasonable hype" is complete crap.

Avengers wasn't perfect, but it didn't have the sheer amount of egregious writing issues and I'd argue it had just as much hype and elevated expectations to deal with. (More, actually. Come on, after Resurrection and the AvP movies, Prometheus' script just needed to be halfway competent and most people complaining now would have enjoyed it thoroughly.)

I beg to differ, but since this isn't The Avengers thread I won't digress.

I don't see why everything has to be clearly defined with written rules and plausible to be considered a good movie in the eyes of some. What's not plausible about some of the character motivations?

The only "glaring" issue I had was Millburn's reaction to that worm like alien creature. Then again, maybe he's just an idiot who was mesmerized. Just cause you "know a lot" about a certain subject doesn't exactly make you bright.

The Space Jockey going after Shaw doesn't seem completely implausible to me. They just destroyed his ship, why not take care of the nuisance first instead of risking the same thing happening again to his other ship?

This doesn't address motivation per se, but plausibility none the less: What about the fact that Shaw got up after having a Caesarean section? It seemed to me she was on some pretty powerful painkillers. Plus some people can do some pretty amazing things with adrenaline pumping through their veins.

The captain drinking and then leaving his post to go do it with Vickers. They obviously aren't going back in after Millburn and Fifield at that moment, regardless of what happens, because of the conditions outside...so why not?

What else is so implausible? Just because we don't know more about the characters in this movie doesn't mean their motives aren't plausible.

I know the movie has been out for some time but I'm going to use spoiler tags all the same.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Oihan

[Mog]

As I've said in the past, I got no issue with the captain drinking and doing the snoochie boochies with Vickers. I just think he should have order one of his crew members to stay on the bridge and keep an eye on the stranded scientists while he did the deed.

[Noriko Takaya]

Saw Prometheus last night. Absolutely loved it. Didn't give a crap about inconsistencies and plot holes knowing first hand the movie was flawed. This led to my enjoyment. Definitely gonna buy this when the blu-ray comes out.