Valks: 1/48 or 1/60, or none at all?

[Robelwell202]

Okay, so, looking over the threads for the past few months, I've seen complaints/concerns for both scales of VF-1 Valks.

1/60 is the famous shattered-shoulder problem

1/48 seems to be plagued with bit and pieces not fitting properly, or things falling off.

So, I'm asking all those who've gotten these toys a simple question:

Which is better? 1/60, 1/48, or should I forget the whole thing until quality issues are dealt with?

(For the admins: If this new topic conflicts with previous threads, feel free to delete it. It's not my intention to spam or step on anyone else's toes.)

[mr.chogokin]

I can live with any shortcomings of the 1/48 than the V2 1/60. It's sturdier when you compare the two. In fact, I think Yamato made the V2 1/60 intentionally just to prove the quality of the 1/48s is higher... which is actually better despite the cheapy plastic feel of it compared to the V2 1/60's plastic.

[eugimon]

the issue with the 1/48 is that the molds suck. Each subsequent release introduced more fit issues, parts not matching up, etc. On the other hand, they don't break.

[bluemax151]

Well the early 1/48s had that problematic back pack hinge iirc.

Personally I have a 1/48 Angel Bird I bought because it was absurdly discounted and honestly the fit and finish on it are terrible (almost bootleg bad). Of course the mold in general still has way more random bits of superfluous detail than even the ver2 1/60s that have followed.

The newer ver2 1/60s seem to have fixed any shoulder issues by changing the type of pin in the shoulder (knock on wood).

Personally I prefer the new 1/60s for a few reasons

They have 1Ds

I always thought the 1/48s were too big anyway

I haven't had any problems with the 1/60s hip area

I never much cared for the radar/wing flaps/etc detail

Fit and Finish is just generally better

Heads/necks look better IMO

The GBP armour fit looks better to me

Has destroids and Zentradi armours in scale

I do miss the 1/48 gunpod strap and the antenna though.

[jenius]

I could never get over the 1/60V2 having the head in the wrong spot but otherwise I would love it if I weren't so scared of the shoulders. I had countless little problems with the 1/48s but never got such a bad lemon that I wished I could immediately return it. I broke one BP8 but that was my fault and I suspect the vast majority of BP8 breaks were caused by the same thing I did... namely not recessing that one little antenna fin when putting on fast packs/GBP.

[pondo]

I have a vf-1a CF in 1/48 scale and I think the things fits together wonderfully. I've transformed it countless times and have yet to have any bits fall off. I also LOVE the size.

At the same time, I'm afraid to transform my 1/60 because of the cracked shoulder (but it looks AMAZING in jet form)

If I were to get another valk right now, it would probably be a 1/48 VF-1J...

[hutch]

Love the 1/60 V2. I've had no shoulder problems as of yet, but I don't have any of the DYRL valks which seem to exhibit the highest frequency of issues.

[derex3592]

I'll put my vote in the 1:60ver2 column. My first every Yamato was a 1:48 Roy. Still have it. Its a little floppy, but nothing to write home about. It's also still ALL IN ONE PIECE. However, that being said, I don't like the radar cone being lose, and the flaps all but fall off if you look at them wrong. I prefer the newer, smaller, better fit and finish of the ver. 2. They are just so much fun. Easier to display, and just all around prettier IMHO. I haven't had any shoulder problems as yet, but my stuff doesn't get moved around or played with much, and I'm sure as I have a first run VF-1S and 1J, it's a problem just waiting to happen. All mine after that have been perfect...I think...Still gotta check em all at some point.

Edited January 9, 2010 by derex3592

[Dangard Ace]

Ignoring the shoulder problem on the 1/60v2 I would say it is better then the 1/48.

Not ignoring the shoulder problem, I'd say it's a razor margin win for the 1/48. Broken back pack vs broken arm? 1 armed losses in that robot fight. Now if it was a fighter fight then the 1/60 wins.

Overall win? 1/60v2. Size, form, aesthetics.

[Kyp Durron]

Overall win? 1/60v2. Size, form, aesthetics.

This.

-Kyp

[Duymon]

It's all a matter of opinion.

I personally prefer the 1/48 because I bought it already and don't feel like repopulating a shelf with mini 1/60 VF-1s, especially when there's a huge influx of new macross products like the frontier line from Bandai...

Edited January 9, 2010 by Duymon

[Desty_Nova]

I'm sure the people who voted 1/60 would change their mind pretty quickly after a couple of broken shoulders. They've just been lucky.

[miriya]

I am a big fan of the 1/48. However I am very happy with my one v.2 1/60 VF-1D which has no problems at all. They are both totally awesome figures and engineering feats. Best transforming toys ever! Since I have not be a victim of any of the yamato problems (even my VF-0A is perfect) I feel that their products are top shelf top notch awesomeness. I am aware of course that many of the members here have had substantial and totally bummer problems with theirs like exploding shoulders, backpacks, etc. So that is not good.

[eugimon]

It's really unfair to lump the bp8 in with the 'splody shoulders. One is a design/manufacturing flaw and the other is user error.

[Vi-RS]

I could never get over the 1/60V2 having the head in the wrong spot but otherwise I would love it if I weren't so scared of the shoulders. I had countless little problems with the 1/48s but never got such a bad lemon that I wished I could immediately return it. I broke one BP8 but that was my fault and I suspect the vast majority of BP8 breaks were caused by the same thing I did... namely not recessing that one little antenna fin when putting on fast packs/GBP.

Jenius, can you explain more where the head is on wrong spot on V2? Is it because the head sits flush with the chest plate on V2 and stick out while the 1/48 is sit below the chest plate?

I voted V2 any days except the inconsistancy on shoulder problem. I think the V2 wins everything except the shoulder and size.

The knee cab on 1/48 is too bulky for my taste, so do the legs from first impression. I also don't like the overhang nose cone, tall chest plate, falling shoulder, long bicep, chicken hands, overhang arms in fighter mode.

[eugimon]

Yup, the vf-1 head is supposed to sit down inside that chest depression

[Vi-RS]

Yup, the vf-1 head is supposed to sit down inside that chest depression

I see, I think it's again to compromise the line art in actual toy form to make it looks more humanoid in battroid mode. The lineart basically has enlarged head.

If the V2 has its head sits down at the chest depression it will look funny like the V1 with tiny head.

The 1/48 actually has thick head base and long neck to make the head sticks out further in battroid mode as well, but it looks funny with the head covered up by GBP-1S chest armor.

Nothing is perfect when it comes to toys and designs, it's all about compromise in the best possible way. To each of its own when it comes to the actual toy that best represent your desired valkyrie.

Speaking of quality issues, both has its own. List down the quality problem on each toy then we can sum up how much quality problem that each toy has.

QUALITY PROBLEM:

1/60 (V2):

1. Shoulder hinge breakage

1/48:

1. Floppy fitment

DESIGN & APPEARANCE

Pros of 1/60 (V2):

1. Double elbow joints

2. Good size hands

3. Better fitment

4. Good size toy (subjective)

Cons of 1/60 (V2):

1. Incorrect head position

2. Nose cone stick out on chest plate in battroid mode

Pros of 1/48:

1. Size does matter (subjective)

Cons of 1/48:

1. Overhang nose cone

2. Tall chest plate

3. Falling shoulder

4. Long bicep

5. Chicken hands

6. Overhang arms in fighter mode

If you keep the list going then it will help to make decision.

[logos]

I have 6 V.2 1/60 and even with the shoulder problems I still love them. Replacements can be purchased from Overdrive (eventually....) for a small handling fee and shipping so I applaud Yamato for giving us that much customer support on a Toy that they don't market or sell outside of Japan/Asia. I have yet to purchase a toy from any manufacture that did not have some kind of quirk/problem so I can live with it.

As to the 1/48's I don't see anything wrong with them that would keep me from purchasing them. I just like the 1/60 scale so that is what I am sticking with.

[jenius]

The pic comparison on the 1/48 there isn't exactly fair but yes, having a slightly recessed head does create some problems. Those aren't problems Kawamori seems to care too much about (see the VF-0 which has big chest spikes that limit the VF-0's field of vision). For that GBP shot, if the camera had been elevated a little, and the chest angled down a tad, it'd look a whole lot better. Having that higher head position definitely will make things easier on the 1/60 V2... but it's still wrong. I can understand proportion issues and that sort of thing (of which the 1/48 has plenty) but having the head be in the wrong spot is really awkward to me. It's the friggin' head... not too fat a leg or knee cap or something like that.

[Vi-RS]

The pic comparison on the 1/48 there isn't exactly fair but yes, having a slightly recessed head does create some problems. Those aren't problems Kawamori seems to care too much about (see the VF-0 which has big chest spikes that limit the VF-0's field of vision). For that GBP shot, if the camera had been elevated a little, and the chest angled down a tad, it'd look a whole lot better. Having that higher head position definitely will make things easier on the 1/60 V2... but it's still wrong. I can understand proportion issues and that sort of thing (of which the 1/48 has plenty) but having the head be in the wrong spot is really awkward to me. It's the friggin' head... not too fat a leg or knee cap or something like that.

I do understand the head position now on V2 and sorry the pictures not showing quite fair on 1/48. I think I start to learn and appreciate the higher head on V2 over time. I think they learn that mistake from V1 and do a better job in 1/48 by making the head slightly bigger in proportion and enlonged the neck.

Back in those days 10 years ago.....Does my head look too small for my body? lol...

[nexxstrait]

I do understand the head position now on V2 and sorry the pictures not showing quite fair on 1/48. I think I start to learn and appreciate the higher head on V2 over time. I think they learn that mistake from V1 and do a better job in 1/48 by making the head slightly bigger in proportion and enlonged the neck.

Back in those days 10 years ago.....Does my head look too small for my body? lol...

Tell me I'm crazy, but I still love those V1 1/60s battroids. In fact, I've only bought V2 that complement that collection. I too, like Jenius, can't really get over the 1/60 V2 head placement, even If I must admit that with due care and some adjustments it's not that bad. As for 1/48s, if you have TV hands or GBP hands, chicken hands are not a problem anymore. I just love them.

[Soundwave.ca]

I prefer the 1/48's myself, always thought the 1/60's were kinda small for the VF-1's. I have a 1/48 Roy and Max and they have no issues at all.

[KiriK]

may be just me, but i LOVE the size and quality of the 1/48's still over the new v2 1/60's. I think as a collector that displays all my toys, the 1/48's are far more impressive as display pieces over the 1/60's.

They just look awesome! And all those cons people are saying about 1/48 for the floppy nosewing/wingflaps, they don't fall off by just looking at it. They fit pretty well and display perfectly. The chicken hands are replaceable by all the TV hands or DYRL custom hands which most of my valks have so they look fine...

Something about the v2 valk in battroid most looks funny to me compared to the 1/48...

[anime52k8]

The pic comparison on the 1/48 there isn't exactly fair but yes, having a slightly recessed head does create some problems. Those aren't problems Kawamori seems to care too much about (see the VF-0 which has big chest spikes that limit the VF-0's field of vision). For that GBP shot, if the camera had been elevated a little, and the chest angled down a tad, it'd look a whole lot better. Having that higher head position definitely will make things easier on the 1/60 V2... but it's still wrong. I can understand proportion issues and that sort of thing (of which the 1/48 has plenty) but having the head be in the wrong spot is really awkward to me. It's the friggin' head... not too fat a leg or knee cap or something like that.

eh, honestly I think that having the head a couple milimeters higher is no worse than low hanging shoulders or a rediculoucly long shlong nosecone.

the 1/60 and 1/48 are both full of inaccurate areas, but none of the 1/60 v2's ditract from it's overall apearance independent of the line art.

that said, since I've never had a broken anything on either one, I'd say the quality of my v.2's is better as well. my v.2's are absolutely perfect where as my 1/48's (which were from later production runs) have lots of floppy/ill fitting parts and honestly feel cheaper dispite the larger size

also I like the FAST packs on the v.2's better.

Edited January 10, 2010 by anime52k8

[Roy Focker]

Both are cool!

If we are looking at just the defect free VF-1 1/60 V2 model than it wins as the more accurate toy to display.

On the other hand if you want a "Toy" over a display model go with the 1/48. Fast Pack falls off, it is a bit floppy but sturdy too.

[bb_f1]

Will make 1J GBP as my last V2 line purchase.

[MacrossJunkie]

I see, I think it's again to compromise the line art in actual toy form to make it looks more humanoid in battroid mode. The lineart basically has enlarged head.

If the V2 has its head sits down at the chest depression it will look funny like the V1 with tiny head.

The 1/48 actually has thick head base and long neck to make the head sticks out further in battroid mode as well, but it looks funny with the head covered up by GBP-1S chest armor.

Nothing is perfect when it comes to toys and designs, it's all about compromise in the best possible way. To each of its own when it comes to the actual toy that best represent your desired valkyrie.

Speaking of quality issues, both has its own. List down the quality problem on each toy then we can sum up how much quality problem that each toy has.

QUALITY PROBLEM:

1/60 (V2):

1. Shoulder hinge breakage

1/48:

1. Floppy fitment

DESIGN & APPEARANCE

Pros of 1/60 (V2):

1. Double elbow joints

2. Good size hands

3. Better fitment

4. Good size toy (subjective)

Cons of 1/60 (V2):

1. Incorrect head position

2. Nose cone stick out on chest plate in battroid mode

Pros of 1/48:

1. Size does matter (subjective)

Cons of 1/48:

1. Overhang nose cone

2. Tall chest plate

3. Falling shoulder

4. Long bicep

5. Chicken hands

6. Overhang arms in fighter mode

If you keep the list going then it will help to make decision.

That comparison pic is misleading. The 1/48 picture is shown at a lower angle making it look like the chest armor is too high. You could get the same result with the 1/60 if the pic was taken with the camera lower.

As far as head positioning goes, note that the 2-seaters don't have that issue as the head position is correct on those.

Another pro of the 1/48 is it has a lot more detail than the 1/60. Also, I like the backpack clip mechanism better for the 1/48 than 1/60's. The 1/60 version is kind of ugly, imo, where it leaves a big gaping hole in the backpack when the clip is deployed.

Additional pros for the 1/60 are it's in scale with most of the other Yamato and Bandai Macross releases, takes up less space, and the stickers are much better (thinner and edges don't peel).

[Vi-RS]

Yup, the vf-1 head is supposed to sit down inside that chest depression

If Yamato makes 1/48 VF-1D, then the VF-1D will have a long neck so that the head can stick out from the shoulder in battroid mode, but it has to be somehow retract in fighter mode so that the head won't stick out and touch the ground. To me, kawamori line art and toys or model kits or even actual mechanism is 2 different stories.

To say that the head on V2 is sitting on wrong spot is more like a vaguely argument. The main wings position on any transforming toy or model kits in battroid mode will never ever get closed with the lineart above. And also the mysteriously gigantic and thick shoulder reflectors which is as tall as the head....

To cut the stories short, to each of its own. It doesn't matter 1/48 or 1/60 as long as we find it fit our needs and perception of a valkyrie toy with the minimum quality problem.

[eugimon]

actually that comparison is misleading. The 1d has a squat, box shaped head head while the 1s head is elongated. a 1/48 could use something like the pop-out necks on the vf-0 line or a slightly compromised 1d head like in the 1d customs...

I realize that a toy isn't going to 100% match the line art, especially the old stuff, but the head placement is really off on the 1/60 ver. 2.0. Out of all of the transforming vf-1 toys, it's the only toy to put the head up so high

[jenius]

I don't exactly see how "the head is in the wrong spot" is some sort of vague argument. Like Eugimon pointed out... just about every toy before the V2 got it right. Yamato decided there was too much backlash about how long the crotch looked on their 1/48 so they had it slide up and pushed the head up in the process. I understand WHY they did it, I just think it was the wrong choice. Also, just because we can't immediately see how a toy manufacturer could have made things happen doesn't suddenly make it impossible, it just means some engineering would have been involved.

[VFTF1]

I've drank enough martini to be happy with either one.

Pete

[HoveringCheesecake]

I don't exactly see how "the head is in the wrong spot" is some sort of vague argument. Like Eugimon pointed out... just about every toy before the V2 got it right. Yamato decided there was too much backlash about how long the crotch looked on their 1/48 so they had it slide up and pushed the head up in the process. I understand WHY they did it, I just think it was the wrong choice. Also, just because we can't immediately see how a toy manufacturer could have made things happen doesn't suddenly make it impossible, it just means some engineering would have been involved.

Yeah, I would have preferred the longer crotch over the 1/60 head placement. Oh well, it's still the best so far (with the exception of the shoulders).

[Vi-RS]

I don't exactly see how "the head is in the wrong spot" is some sort of vague argument. Like Eugimon pointed out... just about every toy before the V2 got it right. Yamato decided there was too much backlash about how long the crotch looked on their 1/48 so they had it slide up and pushed the head up in the process. I understand WHY they did it, I just think it was the wrong choice. Also, just because we can't immediately see how a toy manufacturer could have made things happen doesn't suddenly make it impossible, it just means some engineering would have been involved.

Indeed, they even make the recessed on the chest plate smaller so that the head won't appear too high in battroid mode.

I guess they are trying to avoid the nose cone hanging too low and over the wing tip in battroid mode like the 1/48.

I will prefer if the V2 don't have to push up the entire nose cone 3 mm up and let the crotch attachment point up further 3mm right at the middle instead of staying up close with the red dot.

However, the V2 is still the best in my book besides this and the uncertain hinge problem.

Slightly adjustment on the chest plate might enhanced the appearance for those who hate the head sitting too high.

[Knightdramon]

Wow, you guys ditch the new, more articulated, much more solid [as in I'm not afraid the backplate will snap off whilst installing fast packs] V2...because the head is sitting about a centimetre taller in battroid mode than it should be?

Sad people...real sad people.

[Vi-RS]

Wow, you guys ditch the new, more articulated, much more solid [as in I'm not afraid the backplate will snap off whilst installing fast packs] V2...because the head is sitting about a centimetre taller in battroid mode than it should be?

Sad people...real sad people.

It's actually 3 millimeter taller.