HG and Robotech Debates

[Einherjar]

Hmm, like that recent Answerman segment explaining the situation with the Macross franchise, Macek ignored the Animeigo release. What gives?

[Seto Kaiba]

How do you guys respond to the fact that Robotech sold better than Evangelion and Macross's dub tanked according to Macek?

C'mon... it's Carl Macek talking. The man has spent the last twenty-five years distorting the truth and telling increasingly ridiculous lies to inflate his own importance and justify the string of failures Robotech experienced when he was still serving as the franchise's creative director. Virtually nothing the man says can be taken at face value... there's always a spin to it. Even if he said water was wet, I'd still go elsewhere to check the validity of his statements.

His claim that Robotech sold better than Neon Genesis Evangelion is a textbook case of misdirection by faulty comparison. I could, for example, construct a similar bit of misdirection by saying that, to date, the Ford F-350 has sold better as a light cargo vehicle than the Ford Transit Connect in the US. On the surface, this statement is entirely honest, though it glosses over an otherwise-inconvenient fact that the fleet sales figures span ten model years while the Transit Connect has only been available for one.

Macek's point was the model Robotech established is more viable than ADV's own sales model of just selling the shows without merchandise to people who are already fans.

Now there's a ridiculous claim if ever I saw one... it's less viable to import and distribute new shows without merchandise or with limited merchandising in a niche market than it is to produce merchandise for a franchise with a rapidly shrinking fanbase that hasn't produced a viable sequel in over 25 years of trying? Maybe that's why Carl Macek got into the anime market... he couldn't pass Economics 101 in business school. The ONLY reason Robotech has been able to hang on this long is because animation is, at best, a side business to Harmony Gold. Any company specializing in production would've cut the deadweight franchise loose back in '86 when the movie bombed and Sentinels went under.

[azrael]

How do you guys respond to the fact that Robotech sold better than Evangelion and Macross's dub tanked according to Macek?

Eva? Eva?? Which release of Evangelion? The original TV series? The "Director's cut"? The movies? Macross dub I can see cuz Animeigo put out a version before they did and how many people did they expect to double dip.

Macek's point was the model Robotech established is more viable than ADV's own sales model of just selling the shows without merchandise to people who are already fans.

Well, that was ADV's fault for selling anime with no merchandise. Money is in merchandising. So of course RT would sell better since it has t-shirts, CDs, toys, etc.... When the LAM comes, the least I expect them to try is toys, t-shirts, games, books, and a Burger King promo. ADV was only in the business of selling videos. The margin of return is really small for the video-only market.

Hmm, like that recent Answerman segment explaining the situation with the Macross franchise, Macek ignored the Animeigo release. What gives?

Because Animeigo never contact him. Why would they?

[Einherjar]

Eva? Eva?? Which release of Evangelion? The original TV series? The "Director's cut"? The movies? Macross dub I can see cuz Animeigo put out a version before they did and how many people did they expect to double dip.

There was a lot of money spent adding unnecessary additions to entice people into buying it again. But you forget the biggest hook of all for the ADV release; Mari Iijima. It's tanking was a forgone conclusion from the costs of doing it all again.

And speaking of Mari Iijima, when was she ever relevant to Robotech outside of Macross, and that dub? She's joining the 25th anniversary bandwagon for certain convention tour stops.

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...&forumid=34

[Seto Kaiba]

And speaking of Mari Iijima, when was she ever relevant to Robotech outside of Macross, and that dub? She's joining the 25th anniversary bandwagon for certain convention tour stops.

Not that I'm aware of... apart from her involvement as a voice actor on the original Macross TV series and the ADV dub of same, I don't think she's ever really had anything to do with Robotech. About the closest she's ever come to direct involvement in a Robotech title is the aborted Robotech Perfect Collection VHS series which put both the Robotech rewrites and the original Macross episodes (subtitled, albeit inaccurately) on the same cassettes.

Honestly, I think their reasons for inviting Mari Iijima to some of their convention tour stops are less a matter of her being relevant to Robotech and more a matter of trying to get Macross fans to attend their lame-ass panels too.

[Ghost Train]

What exactly is discussed in a RT panel given the dearth of new material >_> ?

[azrael]

My guess is - based on the big thread we had about sub vs. dub - that lots of folks aren't exactly burning for a dub either... In fact - most lovers of foriegn movies don't want the movies dubbed over.

All of that said - and with due disrespect to the notion that majorities make right...

While our majority here at MW may prefer subs, the majority of buyers, if my memory serves me, prefer dubs. Majority may not make it right, but one has to cater to their target audience's wallets.

[Einherjar]

Honestly, I think their reasons for inviting Mari Iijima to some of their convention tour stops are less a matter of her being relevant to Robotech and more a matter of trying to get Macross fans to attend their lame-ass panels too.

I can understand if to her it's business, but sometimes I really hope she knows what Robotech eventually did to Linn Minmei (notice the spelling) in all the different interpretations that came out over the years.

Edited January 21, 2010 by Einherjar

[VF5SS]

did any of you actually listen to the ANNcast Macek interview?

[taksraven]

did any of you actually listen to the ANNcast Macek interview?

Give us a chance. I haven't been able to find a spare two hours or however long it goes, yet.

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

I can understand if to her it's business, but sometimes I really hope she knows what Robotech eventually did to Linn Minmei (notice the spelling) in all the different interpretations that came out over the years.

She probably doesn't, nor have I ever gotten the feeling that she'd care. She's been focused on her music pretty much her whole life. Macross was a mere detour that sometimes helps, sometimes hinders.

[Moly_Sigang]

She probably doesn't, nor have I ever gotten the feeling that she'd care. She's been focused on her music pretty much her whole life. Macross was a mere detour that sometimes helps, sometimes hinders.

I guess this will be the first and only time she'll be present in an RT 25th Anniversary Con. Specially since most of her involvement is on the original SDF Macross and not Robotech. Seto is right, this was a way to hook Macross fans to attend their Con.

[Bri]

How do you guys respond to the fact that Robotech sold better than Evangelion and Macross's dub tanked according to Macek?

Robotech is less niche then anime, even one as popular as NGE. I'm sure a lot of people picked up the RT set out of nostalgia or to replace their ageing videotapes.

Macek is at least partially right in that the ADV and most of the US licensing market use poor bussiness models. In fairness the only real succesfull players is Funimation. They target the very casual audience with localised dubs and even new anime titles based on american franchises (wolverine etc). That's only audience that is still prepared to pay up. Also they are experimenting with streams which may have the future.

As for the Western anime fanbase, they only buy season boxes at low prices (if they don't download that is). That's not a market you can live on. In fairness I don't think the Japanese producers will shed a tear for the death of the licensing industry, it's more of a threat to them then a blessing these days. Recently there was an article on ANN that Funimation stopped retailers to sell American DVD/Blurays to Japan Source ANN. As an example of how thin the base is that caries the industry: I've read that an anime is considered a financial succes if it sells 5,000 units (meaning the whole season) in Japan. Note that a 13 episode R2 season costs around 500$ on DVD,so the threat of imports is quite real.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Bri

[Jasonc]

How do you guys respond to the fact that Robotech sold better than Evangelion and Macross's dub tanked according to Macek?

Can't say much about NGE vs Robotech, but in the case of Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeada vs Robotech, it's quite simple. First came the regular, "unfixed" Robotech DVDs. then after they came out, ADV again produced the Robotech remastered DVD box sets...OK fine. Then ADV, again, created the Protoculture collection, which was the remastered set + the Sentinels and the extras that came from the first release. Somewhere in there, Animeigo put out SDF:Macross, which was done very well, but had a high price point due to the great work that was done on it. Later on, ADV put out a crappy dub version of SDF:Macross, and also released Mospeada and Southern Cross.

Essentially, what ADV did was oversaturate the market with Robotech product, then turn around and say "Oh, BTW, here's the originals, if you're interested." The U.S. releases of those were more of an ADV afterthought, and may rightfully explain a sales difference. Also, as others have said, quantity has never = quality, especially in sales. Even moreso when you're talking about rehashing the same product over and over. Even if they were both released at the same time (Robotech DVD and Macross), we live in an area where the few people who do recognize the series will recognize it as Robotech. There's no need for anyone in either camp to use this as an argument for anything. It says nothing of quality, or of success. The fact, if it is true, is just that... a fact. Anyone who'd be dumb enough to use that as a basis for a "Robotech is better, or Macross is better" argument is just being a fool.

[Freiflug88]

I can understand if to her it's business, but sometimes I really hope she knows what Robotech eventually did to Linn Minmei (notice the spelling) in all the different interpretations that came out over the years.

She would probably just laugh if she ever found out, but I doubt she would ever be bothered by it. I also find it silly to single out Robotech for critizicism when Macross had no probelm showing her imaginary charater naked in a shower or slapping her across the face for the sake of a dramatic effect before Carl Maceke ever released Robotech.

Macek is at least partially right in that the ADV and most of the US licensing market use poor bussiness models.

Alot of the "poor business stragieiges" done by ADV and every US Licensing marketing is due to things beyond their control unfortantly. Back in 1985 Robotech enjoyed being broadcasted partly censored all over America on Saturday mornings, a merchandising campaign for Robotech toys on primetime TV thanks to a partnership with Revell, and had only VCR recordings and tape sharing to worry about lossing sales over. Alot of things have changed in 25 years and its not that US Licensing companies are so stupid they decided to broadcast their mature Anime titles on Sunday mornings at 1:00am on Adult Swim instead of following Robotech's what 8/9 am Satuday mornings on syndicated channels like NBC. With today's broadcast standards the uncensered, Minmay nudity included, Robotech remastered episodes would have to have the a late night time slot away from the eyes of alot of causal viewers who go to bed early. Still its easy for Macek to spin Robotech as a phenomal success over today's anime when they can never reap half the benefits Robotech did back in 1985.

[Einherjar]

She would probably just laugh if she ever found out, but I doubt she would ever be bothered by it. I also find it silly to single out Robotech for critizicism when Macross had no probelm showing her imaginary charater naked in a shower or slapping her across the face for the sake of a dramatic effect before Carl Maceke ever released Robotech.

I don't know, from what I've heard that's tame compared to the Robotech version(s). Some of it doesn't sound like fan service either, just downright alarming and unnecessary for drama. Even more so if you believe the idea that material from the novels were supposed to be animated at one point.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Einherjar

[VFTF1]

I don't think either of those two scenarios would be the problem. Most actors understand that they are playing a character and it's not necessarily a personal affront when the script writer does something to the character you play.

Besides, to the extent that she knows what "happens" to Minmey - it's probably limited to the 36 episodes of the original that she voiced - which for me is just fine and dandy.

In any event - it's irrelevent.

It is kind of sad that she's going though. I know there's a taboo against criticizing her because we all love her - but maybe a little birdy needs to whisper in her ear that participating in an HG event isn't the best idea?

Then again - doing an english dub for Minmey was - IMO - not the best idea either.

So...have I just criticized Marii Ijima? Yeah. Does that mean I hate her? No. Obviousy not - so hopefully people don't take it out of proportion. I understand business is business - but PR is part of business, and to me - her going to their convention and working with them is just bad PR.

Seto presented it as a "they invited her to get the Macross fans" --- but they present it as "she's coming" not "she's invited."

I wouldn't be surprised if she's actually bound my contract to do these things. It could have been part of her contract when she signed on the the Dubs - that she would be bound to participate in promotional events like this one.

So - Gomene Marii Iijima - I love you so - but I think that getting involved with the dub project was bad move number one, which now has consequences like having to be involved/getting involved in HG Robotech conventions.

Xin Loi.

EDIT: RE: Have I watched the Macek interview?

No - and I'm probably not going to because I'm not that interested. If he gives stats like "Robotech sold better than EVA" - fine. I'm not going to dispute it. Let others dispute it if they want to. It's secondary to the point - which is that Macross is better than Robotech anyways, and Robotech is fun to laugh at.

Pete

Edited January 22, 2010 by VFTF1

[Gubaba]

I don't think either of those two scenarios would be the problem. Most actors understand that they are playing a character and it's not necessarily a personal affront when the script writer does something to the character you play.

Besides, to the extent that she knows what "happens" to Minmey - it's probably limited to the 36 episodes of the original that she voiced - which for me is just fine and dandy.

In any event - it's irrelevent.

It is kind of sad that she's going though. I know there's a taboo against criticizing her because we all love her - but maybe a little birdy needs to whisper in her ear that participating in an HG event isn't the best idea?

Then again - doing an english dub for Minmey was - IMO - not the best idea either.

So...have I just criticized Marii Ijima? Yeah. Does that mean I hate her? No. Obviousy not - so hopefully people don't take it out of proportion. I understand business is business - but PR is part of business, and to me - her going to their convention and working with them is just bad PR.

Seto presented it as a "they invited her to get the Macross fans" --- but they present it as "she's coming" not "she's invited."

I wouldn't be surprised if she's actually bound my contract to do these things. It could have been part of her contract when she signed on the the Dubs - that she would be bound to participate in promotional events like this one.

So - Gomene Marii Iijima - I love you so - but I think that getting involved with the dub project was bad move number one, which now has consequences like having to be involved/getting involved in HG Robotech conventions.

Xin Loi.

I doubt it was part of any kind of contract. She often does convention appearances, for the same reason that a lot of performers do them: they pay pretty well for it, and it's a good excuse to travel (I met an actress on an airport taxi once who was in a few episodes of the original Star Trek, and now more or less makes a living by appearing at Trek conventions all around the US). Also she gets to perform, get her music out to some people who probably wouldn't have heard it otherwise, and sell a few CDs while she's at it.

So who cares if the convention organizers are footing the bill, or if HG is? She gets to travel, she gets to talk, she gets to sing, she gets to meet people. What's so bad about that?

EDIT: RE: Have I watched the Macek interview?

No - and I'm probably not going to because I'm not that interested. If he gives stats like "Robotech sold better than EVA" - fine. I'm not going to dispute it. Let others dispute it if they want to. It's secondary to the point - which is that Macross is better than Robotech anyways, and Robotech is fun to laugh at.

Pete

It's actually a pretty interesting interview. As usual, there's a lot of "anything bad that happened wasn't my fault" coming out of Macek's mouth, but he does make some pretty good points.

I could've done without the "We're hardcore otaku and yet we love Streamline's dubs!" hosts, however.

[Einherjar]

Yeah, my problem at first was the principle of the whole thing, but I'm not going to criticize her for it. A job is a job. When you think about it, HG/ADV at one time banked on her to help promote a product, paid her to do the dub and continue to pay her to appear at Robotech related events. That's right, for the sake of argument, HG's spending money they could be using for something important for the Robotech franchise, like Shadow Rising or better quality merchandise, to hire and promote Mari Iijima to get Macross fans' attention at conventions. It's their money, she might as well enjoy it.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Einherjar

[Gubaba]

Yeah, my problem at first was the principle of the whole thing, but I'm not going to criticize her for it. A job is a job. When you think about it, HG/ADV at one time banked on her to help promote a product, paid her to do the dub and continue to pay her to appear at Robotech related events. That's right, for the sake of argument, HG's spending money they could be using for something important for the Robotech franchise, like Shadow Rising or better quality merchandise, to hire and promote Mari Iijima to get Macross fans' attention at conventions.

What principle? "Macross v. Robotech" is probably not even a blip on her radar screen. Why should it be?

I know she's seen some Robotech, but I doubt she really cares about it all that much, one way or another.

[VFTF1]

So who cares if the convention organizers are footing the bill, or if HG is? She gets to travel, she gets to talk, she gets to sing, she gets to meet people. What's so bad about that?

Nothing per se... but come on - wouldn't you think it was cool if she announced that she doesn't like Robotech and would prefer it if people watched the original Macross?

That's all I'm saying. Again - I know it's taboo to criticize her, and it's not like I'm comparing her to Satan or something. I'm just saying that while I understand all of the sensible reasons for participating - aka some money, some publicity, etc etc.... I would personally be very happy if she distanced herself from Robotech.

Then again - I guess given the legal status of Macross in the USA - what choice does she have?

Would it be legal for Marii Iijima to promote herself as having done Lyn Minmey in MACROSS? Technically that's HG's property here - so she's bound to them.

Which is just another reason I think the entire situation sucks - because you have a big time Macross artist living in the USA and she can't celebrate her being part of Macross outside of HG?

That's stupid.

Of course - she does also go back to Japan a lot to celebrate Macross there, right? She did take part in the Crossover concert, right?

I guess she's making the best of a messy situation - which is fine. But it would help, I think, to break the mould and just distance herself from Robotech. I would prefer it. It's not like I'm going to hate her if she doesn't do it, nor does it in any way change my admiration for her work and her singing.

But to dance around saying something like this for fear of sounding like I'm criticizing Marii Iijima? It's gentle criticism I would hope - and it's not like I'm blaming her.

Pete

[Gubaba]

Nothing per se... but come on - wouldn't you think it was cool if she announced that she doesn't like Robotech and would prefer it if people watched the original Macross?

That's all I'm saying. Again - I know it's taboo to criticize her, and it's not like I'm comparing her to Satan or something. I'm just saying that while I understand all of the sensible reasons for participating - aka some money, some publicity, etc etc.... I would personally be very happy if she distanced herself from Robotech.

Then again - I guess given the legal status of Macross in the USA - what choice does she have?

Would it be legal for Marii Iijima to promote herself as having done Lyn Minmey in MACROSS? Technically that's HG's property here - so she's bound to them.

Which is just another reason I think the entire situation sucks - because you have a big time Macross artist living in the USA and she can't celebrate her being part of Macross outside of HG?

That's stupid.

Of course - she does also go back to Japan a lot to celebrate Macross there, right? She did take part in the Crossover concert, right?

I guess she's making the best of a messy situation - which is fine. But it would help, I think, to break the mould and just distance herself from Robotech. I would prefer it. It's not like I'm going to hate her if she doesn't do it, nor does it in any way change my admiration for her work and her singing.

But to dance around saying something like this for fear of sounding like I'm criticizing Marii Iijima? It's gentle criticism I would hope - and it's not like I'm blaming her.

Pete

She DOES celebrate Macross...when she feels like it (which isn't terribly often). I've heard her sing "Do You Remember Love" and "An Angel's Paints" at her concerts, and occasionally she even talks about the show.

Hell, the first time I saw her, Reba West was in the audience.

But Mari's focus is on her music. She's a singer/songwriter first and anything else second (and a voice actress last of all). I feel pretty confident in saying that her own albums are nearer and dearer to her heart than Minmay is.

[Einherjar]

Nothing per se... but come on - wouldn't you think it was cool if she announced that she doesn't like Robotech and would prefer it if people watched the original Macross?

I guess she's making the best of a messy situation - which is fine. But it would help, I think, to break the mould and just distance herself from Robotech. I would prefer it. It's not like I'm going to hate her if she doesn't do it, nor does it in any way change my admiration for her work and her singing.

Unless WB is actually hiding news of progress for the LAM or HG on Shadow Rising, she doesn't need to say anything that will ruin what she has going with them. At this point it won't change anything with Robotech or HG's situation. Their actions, or inaction, these days says enough, especially for the last two years facing the dirty little secret they couldn't contain in Japan.

What principle? "Macross v. Robotech" is probably not even a blip on her radar screen. Why should it be?

I know she's seen some Robotech, but I doubt she really cares about it all that much, one way or another.

Yeah, that was my cynical self-righteousness side versus my cynical business/economic side in conflict. Business won tonight.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Einherjar

[VFTF1]

What principle? "Macross v. Robotech" is probably not even a blip on her radar screen. Why should it be?

Because her work in Macross, whether she likes it or not, is probably her most popular work, and association with Robotech risks squandering that popularity IMO.

See - there are two issues here and I think you seem to be conflating them.

One issue is "the way things are." HG has legal rights to Macross here, Marii Iijima doesn't care very much about either Macross or Robotech and has gone through phases of "I don't want to be remembered for only that" and "I have much more to offer" and "listen to my other music it's cool" while also having to someone cling to both Macross and Robotech for the sake of promotions, money etc.

I really do understand all of this. And I also understand that someone like me only sees a very small part of the whole picture - because I'm sure Marii Iijima does a ton of things other than Macross/Robotech - and thinks and works on tons of things having nothing to do with that series - and I totally understand I'm a Macross Fanboy who has never shown much interest in all of the other stuff she does, doesn't know anything about it, and is just spinning opinions based on half assed presumptions.

All of this I grant.

The second issue is the "how a Macross fanboy would like things to be" -

And in that realm, I would love it if she rejected Robotech, even if that meant rejecting the money and publicity that might come with the promo events - because...heck - if she's a musician first then I'm sure she could get her self a promo event that has nothing to do with Macross or Robotech and focused just on her music - she could just be Marii Iijima - and I would hope that she is; that she has a big career outside of Robotech/Macross fandom. But speaking just as a Macross fan - it would be nice if she cut herself from Robotech.

Also - as a matter of PURE and BIASED opinion, I conjecture that her further association with HG/Robotech might do her more harm than good. She has a great reputation amongst intelligent Macross fans. Why tarnish that by associating with people who have spent their creative lives besmirching that reputation and ruining the character of Lyn Minmey?

Perhaps she does it precisely because - as you say - "Macross vs. Robotech is not even a blip on her radar." Well then - she has herself to blame if she doesn't take care of her image.

If I were advising her - I'd say: Marii - fine. Ok. You don't wanna be the anime idol of the geek universe? Fine. You want to be yourself and a musician. Fine. So - stop going to Robotech events and stop going to Macross events too. The geeks will all still love you anyways because your work in Macross will stand the test of time. Meanwhile - concentrate on your music career.

But seriously - how is it concentrating on her music career to show up at a Robotech convention? To promote her new works? To meet with people?

Wouldn't her time be better spent organizing promotions in music clubs or something?

The Robotech convention is easy money - I HOPE. And I mean that seriously. I do hope she's getting decent money for showing up. And I think that by and large this is the main reason she does it - and of course that's fine. Nobody is criticizing her for it.

But again - there are also other things to weigh: like your image. Marii Ijima is kind of a Brand - and she needs to take care of the brand because the brand image is what will keep the money coming in. And sometimes, in the short term, it's worth sacrificing some money so that the brand image doesn't get tarnished and so that in the long term, more money can come in.

The problem here is that as long as HG has legal control of Macross in the USA, Marii Iijima is tied to them and to Robotech whether she likes it or not.

In fact, the only way she can untangle herself from it is to just cease all affiliation under the pretext of mainly busying herself with her current projects.

And barring her miraculous conversion to someone who gives a hoot and rebuffs HG (a geek dream, I know), then realistically I would say she should just forget about the "fans" - particularly the Robotech fans - and do what you purport she is doing and I say she isn't: namely concentrate on her music career.

Why do I say she isn't? Because contrary to the spin of "Macross vs Robotech isn't even on her radar screen" ...well... she is going to that convention...she did appear in promo material for them...in interviews...I mean...to some extent this is something she's conscious of. And I wouldn't assume that she's just conscious of it on a purely "business" level - like...she's not a parrot who just read some lines and moved on. Let's give her a little bit of credit.

From the little I've gleamed - she had and has bigger ambitions than to be the star of a cartoon - Japanese or American - and she sometimes seems to have been frustrated that life dealt her this rather than something else.

But I also think, judging from the couple of youtube videos of her singing stuff that I've seen (modern stuff) - that she likes her music and as you say - is a musician first. That's great - that means she doesn't need this mess of HG/Robotech etc.

I would prefer it if Marii Ijima just played a good gig at a club or in a concert hall that had nothing to do with Macross or Robotech - because by going to this convention she's just stepping in it.

The ONLY hope is that the convention has no real impact on anything, and she just picks up a nice check. That is - it doesn't damage her because nobody cares about HG's Robotech cons anyways - and it benefits her financially because they pay her - fine. That's great. I hope she buys herself something nice for the money.

But in general - again - it would be better if she just didn't go and let the past be the past. If you can't fix a bad situation, just let your past work stand on its' own merits and move on.

Finally - re: the star trek actress living off of conventions. I understand that this happens and people need to make a living - but in their heart of hearts do you think their ambitions are satisfied? Would they not prefer to be acting in a new great play or television series, let alone movie?

I mean - I would really prefer it if Marii Ijima, given how much I love her work in Macross, had a brighter future than showing up at a Robotech convention. I would prefer it for her sake if nothing else.

Pete

[Jasonc]

Honestly, I think their reasons for inviting Mari Iijima to some of their convention tour stops are less a matter of her being relevant to Robotech and more a matter of trying to get Macross fans to attend their lame-ass panels too.

I'm more on the belief that these VAs just happened to be there for other reasons, and HG contacted them and basically said, "Hey, will you come to a panel with us? You'll be there anyway and we'll pay you $X.xx to come by." Afterall, those VAs - Mari have done much more than Macross, and with Full Metal Alchemist 2 coming shortly, I'm sure Vic will be there for that. Maybe Steve Yun is still dating, or tryin to date Mari, and the reason why she's going, or maybe the con asked her to go, who knows. But in any case, it's my guess the VAs aren't there just for Robotech.

[Gubaba]

Because her work in Macross, whether she likes it or not, is probably her most popular work, and association with Robotech risks squandering that popularity IMO.

See - there are two issues here and I think you seem to be conflating them.

One issue is "the way things are." HG has legal rights to Macross here, Marii Iijima doesn't care very much about either Macross or Robotech and has gone through phases of "I don't want to be remembered for only that" and "I have much more to offer" and "listen to my other music it's cool" while also having to someone cling to both Macross and Robotech for the sake of promotions, money etc.

I really do understand all of this. And I also understand that someone like me only sees a very small part of the whole picture - because I'm sure Marii Iijima does a ton of things other than Macross/Robotech - and thinks and works on tons of things having nothing to do with that series - and I totally understand I'm a Macross Fanboy who has never shown much interest in all of the other stuff she does, doesn't know anything about it, and is just spinning opinions based on half assed presumptions.

All of this I grant.

The second issue is the "how a Macross fanboy would like things to be" -

And in that realm, I would love it if she rejected Robotech, even if that meant rejecting the money and publicity that might come with the promo events - because...heck - if she's a musician first then I'm sure she could get her self a promo event that has nothing to do with Macross or Robotech and focused just on her music - she could just be Marii Iijima - and I would hope that she is; that she has a big career outside of Robotech/Macross fandom. But speaking just as a Macross fan - it would be nice if she cut herself from Robotech.

Also - as a matter of PURE and BIASED opinion, I conjecture that her further association with HG/Robotech might do her more harm than good. She has a great reputation amongst intelligent Macross fans. Why tarnish that by associating with people who have spent their creative lives besmirching that reputation and ruining the character of Lyn Minmey?

Perhaps she does it precisely because - as you say - "Macross vs. Robotech is not even a blip on her radar." Well then - she has herself to blame if she doesn't take care of her image.

If I were advising her - I'd say: Marii - fine. Ok. You don't wanna be the anime idol of the geek universe? Fine. You want to be yourself and a musician. Fine. So - stop going to Robotech events and stop going to Macross events too. The geeks will all still love you anyways because your work in Macross will stand the test of time. Meanwhile - concentrate on your music career.

But seriously - how is it concentrating on her music career to show up at a Robotech convention? To promote her new works? To meet with people?

Wouldn't her time be better spent organizing promotions in music clubs or something?

The Robotech convention is easy money - I HOPE. And I mean that seriously. I do hope she's getting decent money for showing up. And I think that by and large this is the main reason she does it - and of course that's fine. Nobody is criticizing her for it.

But again - there are also other things to weigh: like your image. Marii Ijima is kind of a Brand - and she needs to take care of the brand because the brand image is what will keep the money coming in. And sometimes, in the short term, it's worth sacrificing some money so that the brand image doesn't get tarnished and so that in the long term, more money can come in.

The problem here is that as long as HG has legal control of Macross in the USA, Marii Iijima is tied to them and to Robotech whether she likes it or not.

In fact, the only way she can untangle herself from it is to just cease all affiliation under the pretext of mainly busying herself with her current projects.

And barring her miraculous conversion to someone who gives a hoot and rebuffs HG (a geek dream, I know), then realistically I would say she should just forget about the "fans" - particularly the Robotech fans - and do what you purport she is doing and I say she isn't: namely concentrate on her music career.

Why do I say she isn't? Because contrary to the spin of "Macross vs Robotech isn't even on her radar screen" ...well... she is going to that convention...she did appear in promo material for them...in interviews...I mean...to some extent this is something she's conscious of. And I wouldn't assume that she's just conscious of it on a purely "business" level - like...she's not a parrot who just read some lines and moved on. Let's give her a little bit of credit.

From the little I've gleamed - she had and has bigger ambitions than to be the star of a cartoon - Japanese or American - and she sometimes seems to have been frustrated that life dealt her this rather than something else.

But I also think, judging from the couple of youtube videos of her singing stuff that I've seen (modern stuff) - that she likes her music and as you say - is a musician first. That's great - that means she doesn't need this mess of HG/Robotech etc.

I would prefer it if Marii Ijima just played a good gig at a club or in a concert hall that had nothing to do with Macross or Robotech - because by going to this convention she's just stepping in it.

The ONLY hope is that the convention has no real impact on anything, and she just picks up a nice check. That is - it doesn't damage her because nobody cares about HG's Robotech cons anyways - and it benefits her financially because they pay her - fine. That's great. I hope she buys herself something nice for the money.

But in general - again - it would be better if she just didn't go and let the past be the past. If you can't fix a bad situation, just let your past work stand on its' own merits and move on.

Finally - re: the star trek actress living off of conventions. I understand that this happens and people need to make a living - but in their heart of hearts do you think their ambitions are satisfied? Would they not prefer to be acting in a new great play or television series, let alone movie?

I mean - I would really prefer it if Marii Ijima, given how much I love her work in Macross, had a brighter future than showing up at a Robotech convention. I would prefer it for her sake if nothing else.

Pete

I'll be honest...I have no idea how to reply to this, because it seems so disconnected from the Mari I've seen. I thin you should check out her website, poke around a bit...and maybe buy a CD if the spirit moves you. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[MastaEgg]

I don't see any problem going to their panel, just don't buy any of their crap- especially the stuff that comes out of their mouth.

This is also a rare time that Mari Iijima makes an convention appearance near the east coast, so take advantage of it if you can.

[Einherjar]

I just thought this was funny.

The Lost Characters of Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom

"One of the main anime we got more requests for than any others was Samurai Pizza Cats," he said. "There were a lot of people who wanted to see that. I wanted to see that, but we couldn't reach an agreement."

Another set of characters shot down by Tatsunoko were the transforming-motorcycle riders of Genesis Climber MOSPEADA.

"They told us what we could and couldn't use," he said. "If they said no we cut them.

Good save Capcom, don't need unnecessary drama for that game.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Einherjar

[MacrossCN]

Chara and Mecha :

http://www.united-earth-group.com/en/genesis

[VF5SS]

So why did they decide to ripoff Jetfire's color scheme?

[Jasonc]

In regards to the UEG Robotech idea... While the designs aren't the greatest, I will give it to them in the fact that they are doing something to a franchise that they like. Not only that, but they are creating their own designs, and making it different enough to where it doesn't clash with Macross, at least in my opinion. The character designs look quite good, but maybe the mecha designs aren't the greatest. I'd still support their efforts over HG's efforts. At least these guys actually like what they're doing, and it shows. It's fanart and a fanfic of sorts, can't really judge them on it in that case. I'm quite fond of the project, really. I think anyone branching out and trying to do their own fan version of something deserves some attention. Just like those here that do Valk customs. It's fanart, and it keeps the fans together and alive.

Seems though, that this project has been stuck in the same place for a lonnnnng time. I wonder if they are still doing anything with it. I even gave them an early garage band version of the song "We Will Win" over a year ago (maybe longer) that is unedited and all. It never was fixed with it's errors, nor was it enhanced, but I wonder if they were going to do anything with it. They should ask Michael Bradley for permission to use his version of it.

Anyways, since they're not making any money off the project, I wonder if HG would want them doing the project of if they'll try with the C & D order. They proclaim to really dislike the current regime at HG and can't stand RTSC, and for all good reasons.

[Einherjar]

I mean - I would really prefer it if Marii Ijima, given how much I love her work in Macross, had a brighter future than showing up at a Robotech convention. I would prefer it for her sake if nothing else.

At most, she only does this for HG in American convention panels. It hints that Robotech is struggling with an identity crisis these days.

[Jasonc]

At most, she only does this for HG in American convention panels. It hints that Robotech is struggling with an identity crisis these days.

Much agreed. As much as they say they want to disassociate themselves with Macross, Macross, perspectively "has them by the balls". They'll never be able to let Macross go, and stand on their own. As much as it sucks to still have that connection still ever so prevailant, it bodes well for Macross, and still indirectly markets Macross as the thriving source for Robotech's success. For a disgruntled Robotech fan, as we have kinda seen, it effectively gives remaining RT fans an alternate to RT, and a better alternate than RT. When you have Tommy Yune attending MWcon, and secretly frequenting this site/thread, that shows just how much Robotech is sitll dependent upon Macross to sell product and merchandise. Honestly, do you think you're gonna by Shadow Chronicles T-shirts, or would you rather have one with a Valkyrie, or the SDF-1 on the front?

Oh, and on the topic of Mari Ijima, whenever she's gone to a panel, or con, it's usually to sell/promote her CDs and stuff. I doubt that it's to promote Robotech. Technically, she did NOTHING with Robotech, Macross only, so her being there, along with Vic Mignona and the other guy, is strictly out of some loose tie into RT. Probably out of convenience. Nevertheless, it does reaffirm that Robotech is really nothing without Macross. As a RT fan of old, I can easily, and proudly acknowledge that.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Jasonc

[Einherjar]

It probably supports the reason why Shadow Chronicles was chosen as part of the emblem for the 25th anniversary. By the way, it originates from this:

It would be awkward if they used the VF-1 when Macross used it for their 25th anniversary recently, despite the blackout HG placed on it. And of course, to them Southern Cross doesn't sell. Shadow Chronicles/Mospeada is the only thing that helps Robotech stand out these days.

[Jasonc]

Yeah, and it's still someone else's work they've taken, so how legit is the debate of which franchise is better? Saying something is like something is one thing, Something BEING the same thing is completely different. I like when RT fans use the excuse that "Macross is a rip off of Space Battle ship Yamato." Uh are you sure about that? I honestly don't think those people have even seen that series, cause if they did, they wouldn't be making that assinine statement.