HG and Robotech Debates

[Legioss]

US Renditions, Central Park Media, and AnimEigo were based on ways of selling Japanese animation like Harmony Gold's as being the wrong way to go. Streamline Pictures was about showing Totoro and Akira in theaters. I don't think they were related to Robotech. Robotech was based on some anime. That's the relation between Robotech and anime. That's why a lot of anime fans know about it.

[Jasonc]

All I know is if you look at any of the great "hubs" of robotech fandom, you will find many things, but anime fans are very rare among them.

Out of the few that I do know that are into anime, aside from maybe 2 or 3, they all only like anime that wants to look like the originals, or has very similar stories or concepts. The exceptional 2 or 3 are quite knowledgeable about anime in general, but yeah, that's 2 or 3 out of aaaaaaa llllllooooooottttt.

[Dynaman]

(was Gigantor ever seen in the west, I suspect it was)

A friend of mine ALWAYS mentions Gigantor whenver I started talking anime, and he did not have any source for stuff straight from Japan, so it must have been on somewhere in the US.

[Funkenstein]

Gigantor was the USA name for Tetsujin 28.

[Beltane70]

Anyone remember if Robotech fans were accepted by anime fans in the 80s?

Even though I was very much around then, I couldn't tell you since, for my first two years as an anime fan was a lonely time period. I can safely say that during that time period, I was the only anime fan that I knew. Some of my friends saw some anime, but no where near as much as I did. They thought Robotech was pretty cool, but none of them seriously got into it. What everyone was familiar with, however, was Voltron, GI Joe, and Transformers, so it wasn't like they hated animated TV shows.

As I stated earlier, even without Robotech, I probably would have found Macross on my own. Certainly, Robotech at the time alerted me to Macross' existence, but it was seeing the opening battle of DYRL at a sci-fi convention that opened my eyes to its Japanese origins.

I even remember the very first scene of DYRL that I saw, which was were Max destroys two Regulds, and rips the pilot out of the third one and shoots the poor guy in the head.

I can even describe my thoughts at the time. "Wait, that's Macross isn't it? I don't remember this scene in the TV show, but that fighter sure looks familiar! I have to find out what this is!"

If I hadn't seen Robotech first, the only thing that would have been different was: "What the hell is this? I have to find out what it is so I can buy it!"

[Roy Focker]

I first discovered DYRL? through one of the film books. It was the same year Robotech the Movie was suppose to come out. Thought for that year the two were connected. A year later rented a copy of Clash of the Bionoids from 7-11. Changed my life. You think I'd be a life time customer after that. Haven't walked a 7-11 in 7 years.

[Jasonc]

I first discovered DYRL? through one of the film books. It was the same year Robotech the Movie was suppose to come out. Thought for that year the two were connected. A year later rented a copy of Clash of the Bionoids from 7-11. Changed my life. You think I'd be a life time customer after that. Haven't walked a 7-11 in 7 years.

you're missing out on those great 1/4 lb. big bites with the chili cheese, and some chili cheese fritos. I still have a VHS copy of the English version. However, it has a VHS cover that says Macross, and is the full version of the movie.

[Beltane70]

I remember getting the DYRL International Version (before it was edited as Clash of the Bionoids) about a year after I had seen DYRL in raw Japanese for the first time. I only watched it twice. Once just to fully understand the movie, and a second time to show a couple of friends. After that, I have no idea, nor care, what happened to the tape.

[Einherjar]

Out of the few that I do know that are into anime, aside from maybe 2 or 3, they all only like anime that wants to look like the originals, or has very similar stories or concepts. The exceptional 2 or 3 are quite knowledgeable about anime in general, but yeah, that's 2 or 3 out of aaaaaaa llllllooooooottttt.

To me, that sounds very broad, since there are anime that came out with similar stories, concepts and feeling, before and after the originals came out. Mospeada was one of them.

But let me guess, did they want to add them to the Robotech universe?

[Jasonc]

To me, that sounds very broad, since there are anime that came out with similar stories, concepts and feeling, before and after the originals came out. Mospeada was one of them.

But let me guess, did they want to add them to the Robotech universe?

You're right, it is kinda a broad statement. And that's not even really a bad thing. If it's just one specific thing that they like, or only know of Robotech, one can't fault that preference. Also, perhaps I shouldn't generalize it so much, as there are probably more that actually do like anime in general. It's a simple observation though, and it still holds true from my observations.

For example, I have one friend who's one of the old school Robotech fans. What he knows of anime is Macross (outside of SDF macross), Gundam, Evangelion, and Full Metal Panic, as well as things like Votoms and that sort. Again, it's not a bad thing, but that's his preference. His introduction to "anime" was Robotech, so he gravitates to stuff that is similar in that fashion. Outside of that genre, he doesn't know much.

There are many that I know that have similar likes based on similar backgrounds. I don't see a lot of Robotech fans making the leap to various other anime titles outside of the Robot/mecha action titles. There's probably many reasons why, but I'd probably chalk most of it up to just being used to or comfortable with that one genre, and not being knowledgable about what else is out there that is actually any good. There is, a lot of anime that many would find simply garbage, or not to there liking.

[terry the lone wolf]

My introduction to DYRL was my exposure to Clash of the Bionoids. When I moved from Baltimore City to the county I met some dudes that was into comics and anime like me. I let them know how heavy I was into Robotech and they introduced me to the RT RPG. They also showed me COTB because they used to rent it from the local video store. Man, that video blew me away and I thought was this that Robotech movie that never came out. Later, when I read the notes in the back of the RPG it explained that COTB wasn't RT:TM and it wasn't the "Japanese" version of Macross (opposed to Robotech) but a condensed version of events of the original story.

Edited May 12, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[Seto Kaiba]

But let me guess, did they want to add them to the Robotech universe?

Eh... can we really hold that against them when so many Robotech are clueless about real anime? On the rare occasions when some Robotech does suggest that a particular anime title be rewritten into a Robotech saga, the vast majority of Robotech fans come out against it because they want Robotech to stand on its own... which I'm sure you'll agree is hilariously ironic, considering that there's no such thing as original material in Robotech... not even in the Shadow Chronicles movie. The only real cases where fans did attempt to integrate mecha and story elements from other shows into Robotech were where fans just wanted to add some variety and interest into their Robotech RPGs, rather than continue to slog through the same tired material over and over again for the better part of 20 years. Yes, the inclusions were in bad taste and reflect the Robotech fanboy mentality that everything original is inferior to Macek's rewrites, but they were at least done for reasons we can understand.

(Even Sketchley's done this to some small degree with his Macross RPG stats page... though the few items he's included are ships from Macross's nearest neighbor, Gundam, to flesh out the civilian ships for the game)

[Jasonc]

Eh... can we really hold that against them when so many Robotech are clueless about real anime? On the rare occasions when some Robotech does suggest that a particular anime title be rewritten into a Robotech saga, the vast majority of Robotech fans come out against it because they want Robotech to stand on its own... which I'm sure you'll agree is hilariously ironic, considering that there's no such thing as original material in Robotech... not even in the Shadow Chronicles movie. The only real cases where fans did attempt to integrate mecha and story elements from other shows into Robotech were where fans just wanted to add some variety and interest into their Robotech RPGs, rather than continue to slog through the same tired material over and over again for the better part of 20 years. Yes, the inclusions were in bad taste and reflect the Robotech fanboy mentality that everything original is inferior to Macek's rewrites, but they were at least done for reasons we can understand.

(Even Sketchley's done this to some small degree with his Macross RPG stats page... though the few items he's included are ships from Macross's nearest neighbor, Gundam, to flesh out the civilian ships for the game)

I don't know of too many Robotech fans that would be too accepting of "adding" additional anime titles into Robotech. What I do find odd in saying that, is that I see questions like "Is Macross Zero gonna be Robotech Zero" or "Macross Plus would make a great Robotech side story". For some reason, some RT fans think it's only acceptable if Macross series are added. I know not all of them think like that, but the only time I hear RT fans being acceptable of adding shows seems to be with Macross. And yes, it does seem ironic that many want Robotech to stand on its own, but at the same time, can't get past the story that was left from Macross characters. As much as I've heard some complain about Robotech being too Macross driven and whatnot, the base plot of Robotech has been that since it was first aired. If it strayed from that story of Rick Hunter, I don't think the franchise would be able to survive. It's kinda sad, cause it'd be nice if it could stand on its own and not have to rely on Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada designs. Tommy's design of his Gamma Fighter was pretty good. It could've been a good transition, and a way to start moving in that direction. Then again, you'd still have to resolve the Rick Hunter plot, and move on from that as well, something they don't seem to want to settle, out of fear of losing the fans who have that attachment. Just speculation.

[jenius]

It makes sense that people would see Macross and ask if it were going to be part of Robotech because the title "Macross" actually appears in Robotech. Even if they were somewhat more educated it's inarguable that Macross anime would be amongst the easiest to shoehorn into Robotech... in many instances it features the same vehicles as used in Robotech AND there's a tradition there. It also makes sense that many Robotech fans aren't the most informed anime fans, they grew up in a time when anime was relatively hard to get and Robotech had very broad appeal. From there it makes sense that the anime they do like is similar to Robotech as their appetite for mecha anime was clearly whet by Robotech. Why don't they like the anime about the comedical going-ons of 13 year old girls? Probably because their 30 years old and they only let themselves like mecha anime for sentimental reasons. Robotech was a phenomenon because it had broad, sweeping appeal. It was the kind of appeal that turned people who weren't staunch cartoon devotees into fans. Those hardcore anime people (like the kind who post on forums) represent a subsection of anime that is so small anime can not survive on them alone.

Shadow Chronicles fails on several levels. Every generation after the Macross Saga had a gap and left Rick Hunter off somewhere in the cosmos. IMHO they should have done the same thing with Shadow Chronicles. I can come up with about a billion scenarios I think would have been more accessible to first time viewers while retaining the old-timers. For example, make it 18 years after the Invid have left Earth. Introduce us to a plucky young orphan named Roy Hunter being raised by his uncle Max Sterling. Don't even bother with all the backstory. Have Roy join the military when he hears that an SOS beacon from the ship his father was the captain of has been tracked down in some distant corner of the universe. Have him get to some distant space station and be introduced to his commanding officer, Scott Bernard. Then his ship goes out in search of the SOS beacon, encounters a new enemy while troubles brew within the ship, and in the end Roy finds out what happened to his dad. It could be a story that functions entirely on its own, with a new cast of characters and mecha, that is only bolstered by its relationship to the original shows, not completely dependent on them.

Edit - doing this would also let you get rid of all ties to terms that should be dead in Robotech. You could have a scene where, upon hearing that a distress beacon has been heard, Max tells Roy about the last time he saw his father:

"We were on the far side of the universe having been at war for four years. Our Protoculture supplies were all but depleted..."

"Protoculture? You still used that stuff?"

"Yes, it wasn't until a couple years later that "unobtainium" was discovered. Now, where was I, oh yes, your parents were on the capital ship heading toward the enemy stronghold. My wife took my position as squadron leader and I was transported to the medical ship to receive treatment for my wounds (points to robotic knee). Your parents sent you along with me as you were only a month old. During the battle the capital ship took extensive damage and folded away to safety... and that was the last anyone saw of it. We sent a few ships out to look for her once the smoke cleared but the plague that killed off our allies The Masters and their genetically engineered armies left us so under-manned we had to cut the rescue effort short."

Edited May 12, 2010 by jenius

[Einherjar]

I don't know of too many Robotech fans that would be too accepting of "adding" additional anime titles into Robotech. What I do find odd in saying that, is that I see questions like "Is Macross Zero gonna be Robotech Zero" or "Macross Plus would make a great Robotech side story". For some reason, some RT fans think it's only acceptable if Macross series are added.

I see it as more of their desire for the footage in Zero, Plus and others rather than everything else that's there in the shows. In particular, the Valkyries blowing crap up and Roy Focker. Because, among other things, there aren't enough references to a certain addictive plant fuel source and overly pro-military messages, but too much interpersonal and (probably) environmental themes in either. But, creative editing is a hallmark of Robotech.

[HappyPenguins]

It makes sense that people would see Macross and ask if it were going to be part of Robotech because the title "Macross" actually appears in Robotech. Even if they were somewhat more educated it's inarguable that Macross anime would be amongst the easiest to shoehorn into Robotech... in many instances it features the same vehicles as used in Robotech AND there's a tradition there. It also makes sense that many Robotech fans aren't the most informed anime fans, they grew up in a time when anime was relatively hard to get and Robotech had very broad appeal. From there it makes sense that the anime they do like is similar to Robotech as their appetite for mecha anime was clearly whet by Robotech. Why don't they like the anime about the comedical going-ons of 13 year old girls? Probably because their 30 years old and they only let themselves like mecha anime for sentimental reasons. Robotech was a phenomenon because it had broad, sweeping appeal. It was the kind of appeal that turned people who weren't staunch cartoon devotees into fans. Those hardcore anime people (like the kind who post on forums) represent a subsection of anime that is so small anime can not survive on them alone.

Shadow Chronicles fails on several levels. Every generation after the Macross Saga had a gap and left Rick Hunter off somewhere in the cosmos. IMHO they should have done the same thing with Shadow Chronicles. I can come up with about a billion scenarios I think would have been more accessible to first time viewers while retaining the old-timers. For example, make it 18 years after the Invid have left Earth. Introduce us to a plucky young orphan named Roy Hunter being raised by his uncle Max Sterling. Don't even bother with all the backstory. Have Roy join the military when he hears that an SOS beacon from the ship his father was the captain of has been tracked down in some distant corner of the universe. Have him get to some distant space station and be introduced to his commanding officer, Scott Bernard. Then his ship goes out in search of the SOS beacon, encounters a new enemy while troubles brew within the ship, and in the end Roy finds out what happened to his dad. It could be a story that functions entirely on its own, with a new cast of characters and mecha, that is only bolstered by its relationship to the original shows, not completely dependent on them.

Edit - doing this would also let you get rid of all ties to terms that should be dead in Robotech. You could have a scene where, upon hearing that a distress beacon has been heard, Max tells Roy about the last time he saw his father:

"We were on the far side of the universe having been at war for four years. Our Protoculture supplies were all but depleted..."

"Protoculture? You still used that stuff?"

"Yes, it wasn't until a couple years later that "unobtainium" was discovered. Now, where was I, oh yes, your parents were on the capital ship heading toward the enemy stronghold. My wife took my position as squadron leader and I was transported to the medical ship to receive treatment for my wounds (points to robotic knee). Your parents sent you along with me as you were only a month old. During the battle the capital ship took extensive damage and folded away to safety... and that was the last anyone saw of it. We sent a few ships out to look for her once the smoke cleared but the plague that killed off our allies The Masters and their genetically engineered armies left us so under-manned we had to cut the rescue effort short."

Did you write a fanfic about that or somethin? =P

[anime52k8]

Did you write a fanfic about that or somethin? =P

yeah, the level to which you've thought this out is kind of creepy.

[VF5SS]

lol the latest episode of the anime82 podcast has Daryl Surat totally blasting robotech fans.

[Funkenstein]

Who's Daryl Surat, and what's Robotech?

[jenius]

yeah, the level to which you've thought this out is kind of creepy.

Creepy? Nah, no fanfic (well, other than what I just wrote above). After I wrote it I went to bed and thought of more stuff... it really could have been a fanfic. I was thinking you could justify my little story above in an accompanying art book to appease the diehard fans. You wouldn't mention it at all in the new show but in the book you could elaborate saying that the Invid Exodus caused a universal change in existing Protoculture which rendered it inert. All lifeforms that had been created using any form of protoculture-based technology then became unstable and began dying off in masses. Protoculture's becoming inert at that point would also explain why Roy Hunter would know it as something ancient.

Within the context of the new cartoon I outlined, you then never have to mention "Zentraedi" or "Robotech Masters" outside of that one vague sentence I fanfic'ed. Sure, lots of fans might be sad to think they'd never see Miria, Dana, Breetai, Exedore, etc. but the truth is most of those couldn't be seen properly in a Robotech show again any way.

[Jasonc]

Within the context of the new cartoon I outlined, you then never have to mention "Zentraedi" or "Robotech Masters" outside of that one vague sentence I fanfic'ed. Sure, lots of fans might be sad to think they'd never see Miria, Dana, Breetai, Exedore, etc. but the truth is most of those couldn't be seen properly in a Robotech show again any way.

They couldn't even use the word Zentraedi in Shadow Chronicles, at least they didn't out of concern of lawsuit. Whether they can or can't use the terms, it seems like they abandoned the usage of anything Zentraedi. In anycase, your idea would work, but as finicky as Robotech hans can be, I think there'd still be two sides of the camp. One side that thinks it's great, the other that gets upset that they did the disconnect from the originals. As what I'm gathering based on RTSC's conclusion, Shadow Rising will still go on with the same story. It's all in delivery.

[Einherjar]

lol the latest episode of the anime82 podcast has Daryl Surat totally blasting robotech fans.

I agree. Robotech did serve it's purpose, but if HG is not going to attempt to do anything significant with it, it should go away for the sake of progress.

http://anime82.blogspot.com/2010/05/shining-momentsthe-intergalactic-holy.html

'>

http://anime82.blogspot.com/2010/05/shining-momentsthe-intergalactic-holy.html

@ 1:35:15

Edited May 12, 2010 by Einherjar

[Jasonc]

Who's Daryl Surat?

[HappyPenguins]

I agree. Robotech did serve it's purpose, but if HG is not going to attempt to do anything significant with it, it should go away for the sake of progress.

http://anime82.blogspot.com/2010/05/shining-momentsthe-intergalactic-holy.html

'>

http://anime82.blogspot.com/2010/05/shining-momentsthe-intergalactic-holy.html

@ 1:35:15

ah, and you KNOW who is going to be all over that....

[Seto Kaiba]

For some reason, some RT fans think it's only acceptable if Macross series are added. I know not all of them think like that, but the only time I hear RT fans being acceptable of adding shows seems to be with Macross. And yes, it does seem ironic that many want Robotech to stand on its own, but at the same time, can't get past the story that was left from Macross characters.

We needn't wonder why some Robotech fans are keen on integrating large portions of Macross into the Robotech universe when they would object to using most any other series... it's actually quite obvious. In any rational assessment, the only part of Robotech that at least 85% of Robotech fans actually give a tinker's damn about is Macross. Those fans just want to see more of the Macross Saga characters, and see more cool transforming fighters like the VF-1 instead of the lackluster offerings from Southern Cross and Mospeada. They keep hoping that Macross will be made into Robotech because it's the only way they'll ever get a Robotech continuation that isn't pathetic.

It's kinda sad, cause it'd be nice if it could stand on its own and not have to rely on Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada designs. Tommy's design of his Gamma Fighter was pretty good. It could've been a good transition, and a way to start moving in that direction. Then again, you'd still have to resolve the Rick Hunter plot, and move on from that as well, something they don't seem to want to settle, out of fear of losing the fans who have that attachment. Just speculation.

Admittedly, while I would like to see Robotech stand on its own and stop mooching off Macross, the very idea that it could is preposterous. In the end, Robotech is a whole considerably less than the sum of its parts. Even the Masters Saga and New Generation are essentially incapable of standing on their own merits, as everything in Robotech ultimately hinges on the Macross story and characters. Were someone to start developing a Robotech series capable of standing on its own, why bother calling it Robotech, since it'd be a whole new universe bereft of everything made previously. They could get away from the name's legacy of failure and call it something more appropriate like The Adventures of Captain Scowlyface and the Stripperific Android. Without Rick Hunter and, more importantly, Macross, the idiots at Harmony Gold might as well give up and stop wasting everybody's time with their ineptly-assembled garbage.

Also, don't go giving Tommy any credit for the mechanical design of the "Gamma Fighter", because it's not even close to being original. It's a transforming version of Mospeada's AF-03C Combat... one with a battroid mode that ends up looking suspiciously like a blockier VF-9 Cutlass.

ah, and you KNOW who is going to be all over that....

Nobody of consequence, that's who.

About the best you can expect is that Tommy'll get ahold of that episode, notice they're taking a dig at his baby, and cry himself to sleep every night for the next month before siccing MEMO on them... just like he did when I got to saying that Shadow Chronicles was a massive steaming turd in a novelty box shaped like a larger steaming turd.

[HappyPenguins]

meh Tommy needs to stop acting like a baby and learn to accept criticism.

[Seto Kaiba]

meh Tommy needs to stop acting like a baby and learn to accept criticism.

Indeed... were Tommy to man up and stop throwing a fuss-fit every time someone criticizes him would be a huge leap forward in his growth as a "professional" artist. Tommy's current achievements do lose a certain something when you notice that Shadow Chronicles is basically Tommy's personal masturbation material.

[HappyPenguins]

Indeed... were Tommy to man up and stop throwing a fuss-fit every time someone criticizes him would be a huge leap forward in his growth as a "professional" artist. Tommy's current achievements do lose a certain something when you notice that Shadow Chronicles is basically Tommy's personal masturbation material.

Edited May 13, 2010 by HappyPenguins

[chrisk]

Shadow Chronicles fails on several levels. Every generation after the Macross Saga had a gap and left Rick Hunter off somewhere in the cosmos. IMHO they should have done the same thing with Shadow Chronicles. I can come up with about a billion scenarios I think would have been more accessible to first time viewers while retaining the old-timers. For example, make it 18 years after the Invid have left Earth. Introduce us to a plucky young orphan named Roy Hunter being raised by his uncle Max Sterling. Don't even bother with all the backstory. Have Roy join the military when he hears that an SOS beacon from the ship his father was the captain of has been tracked down in some distant corner of the universe. Have him get to some distant space station and be introduced to his commanding officer, Scott Bernard. Then his ship goes out in search of the SOS beacon, encounters a new enemy while troubles brew within the ship, and in the end Roy finds out what happened to his dad. It could be a story that functions entirely on its own, with a new cast of characters and mecha, that is only bolstered by its relationship to the original shows, not completely dependent on them.

I don't know about you guys, but from all the fan-fiction I've heard over the years, this has always seemed to be the best and most logical way to follow up Robotech (cheesy though it may be, but so what? Starwars is doing well with that bit). Unfortunately, Tommy had such a hard-on for Mospeada, at the same time wanted to appease "long-time fans", that we ended up with one of the most forgettable mash-ups in the history of anime. Maybe Harmony Gold's history of consitent failures prompted them to do something safe and benign, but I'd like to think it had more to do with the Creative Director's lack of vision.

For the record: No, Tommy. You cannot recreate DYRL's scope and richness with your cheap CG. Don't even try. (If that's what you're even doing nowadays)

meh Tommy needs to stop acting like a baby and learn to accept criticism.

Tommy thinks he has it tough with his few vocal critics? Try being Carl Macek back in the 80's.

Edited May 13, 2010 by chrisk

[anime52k8]

Indeed... were Tommy to man up and stop throwing a fuss-fit every time someone criticizes him would be a huge leap forward in his growth as a "professional" artist. Tommy's current achievements do lose a certain something when you notice that Shadow Chronicles is basically Tommy's personal masturbation material.

[Gubaba]

Tommy thinks he has it tough with his few vocal critics? Try being Carl Macek back in the 80's.

Carl Macek wouldn't, I think, have gotten half of the jeers he got if he hadn't started acting like Robotech burst fully-formed from his skull. A lot of the anger went WAY overboard, but he does deserve some criticism for shunting aside the people who actually created the shows, and then pretending that he did all the important work.

[anime52k8]

Tommy thinks he has it tough with his few vocal critics? Try being Carl Macek back in the 80's.

random observation, this person has excellent taste in avatar's

[eugimon]

I don't know about you guys, but from all the fan-fiction I've heard over the years, this has always seemed to be the best and most logical way to follow up Robotech (cheesy though it may be, but so what? Starwars is doing well with that bit). Unfortunately, Tommy had such a hard-on for Mospeada, at the same time wanted to appease "long-time fans", that we ended up with one of the most forgettable mash-ups in the history of anime. Maybe Harmony Gold's history of consitent failures prompted them to do something safe and benign, but I'd like to think it had more to do with the Creative Director's lack of vision.

For the record: No, Tommy. You cannot recreate DYRL's scope and richness with your cheap CG. Don't even try. (If that's what you're even doing nowadays)

Tommy thinks he has it tough with his few vocal critics? Try being Carl Macek back in the 80's.

I think B5 proved nicely that you CAN achieve scope and richness with cheap CG. You just need an actual story to tell.

[Keith]

I think B5 proved nicely that you CAN achieve scope and richness with cheap CG. You just need an actual story to tell.

Very true, but then it comes back to bite you in the ass when the HD age appears, and you're left with said low res cheap cg that prevents any kind of decent quailty release from happening. Have you seen B5 upscaled? Not a pretty picture.

[anime52k8]

Very true, but then it comes back to bite you in the ass when the HD age appears, and you're left with said low res cheap cg that prevents any kind of decent quailty release from happening. Have you seen B5 upscaled? Not a pretty picture.

but you still have a show that's fundamentally good. if they went and replaced all the crappy mid 90's CG with modern stuff like they did for star trek, it would make it an even better show.

you could put Weta with avatar's budget to work redoing shadow chronicles and you'd still have a horrible abortion, just one that looks kind of pretty.