HG and Robotech Debates

[Seto Kaiba]

Public access television? I was referring to the old UHF channels in the Baltimore/Washington DC areas. Examples: WBFF 45, WNUV 54, and WDCA 20. In the 80's these were the channels that carried anime programming.

Okay, poor choice of words on my part... but no poorer than calling it "free TV". I'm talking about regular broadcast television which is supported by commercial endorsements. It's not "free" by any means, it's all supported by advertising revenue.

Maybe the shows became bigger hits on CN but they already had a cult following.

But that's exactly the point... that the shows failed to gather any kind of significant following during their limited runs on broadcast television, and that it was the cable channels decision to run anime that really took anime from an obscure niche market to something that most people are at least passingly familiar with. Realistically, none of the shows you listed did much of anything as far as giving anime mainstream appeal in America. Those are relics from days gone by when most people didn't even know what anime was, and the industry was almost an underground outfit. Those shows didn't have much of any influence on the industry because nobody gave a toss about them back in the day. They came before the anime craze the cable providers started in the late 90s.

Just look at Robotech... even during its initial broadcast run it was a poor performer and was all but eclipsed by the Generation 1 Transformers series. Carl Macek himself even attributed the failure of Robotech: the Untold Story to, among other things, being completely overshadowed the the release of Transformers: the Movie.

Saying that old shows like Robotech were what got the ball rolling and helped give anime its current level of recognition is nothing short of absurd. They weren't what made the public sit up and take notice, and most of them aren't remembered fondly, if at all. It's the stuff from the late 90s that deserves credit for making the anime industry more accessible.

[Legioss]

Only in the comic. On the tape you can hear them him say Rick Yamada. It was considered an easy to pronounce common Japanese name like Smith.

Anyone remember if Robotech fans were accepted by anime fans in the 80s?

I saw Robotech and Harlock in 1988. When I finally met other anime fans in the early 90s, I remember people having a few Robotech tapes, but everyone was hostile towards Robotech and considered it to be very old. In 1993, more than one person told me that Robotech was ancient and looked like poo. They were saying that in the western anime magazines too.

Who were these people that were supposedly influenced by Robotech? US Renditions? US Manga Corps? AnimEigo?

I'm not arguing. I just want to know if anyone else remembers.

[Keith]

Nobody but the super agro miniscule robotech fan base were truly "influenced" by Robotech. Better yet, most Robotech fans to this day are far from what would be considered "Anime" fans.

[Gubaba]

Only in the comic. On the tape you can hear them him say Rick Yamada. It was considered an easy to pronounce common Japanese name like Smith.

Anyone remember if Robotech fans were accepted by anime fans in the 80s?

I saw Robotech and Harlock in 1988. When I finally met other anime fans in the early 90s, I remember people having a few Robotech tapes, but everyone was hostile towards Robotech and considered it to be very old. In 1993, more than one person told me that Robotech was ancient and looked like poo. They were saying that in the western anime magazines too.

Who were these people that were supposedly influenced by Robotech? US Renditions? US Manga Corps? AnimEigo?

I'm not arguing. I just want to know if anyone else remembers.

I got pretty heavily into anime circles before Robotech finished airing. People's level of acceptance seemed predicated on how much they knew about the original shows...the more you knew, the less tolerable, say, watching DYRL and talking about "Rick" and "Lisa" was.

I'd also venture that Macek DID have an influence on the anime companies that sprang up...but in a negative way. I remember an early ad for US Renditions' release of Gunbuster, where they showed one word balloon crammed with Japanese text, and then another one that said simply, "SEE NORIKO RUN. RUN, NORIKO, RUN!" And then it said, "Something lost in translation?" The ad was touting their scrupulous fidelity to the original dialogue...at the time, I for one definitely read that as a swipe against Robotech (among other things). I'm not sure if it actually was, though...

On the other hand, people at my local C/FO meetings (I think I was the only member whose mom had to drop him off... ) were all pretty jazzed when one guy actually got his hands on Mospeada: Love Live Alive...so it was pretty clear that everyone had WATCHED Robotech, and wanted to see more... So yeah, I dunno.

On the playground, none of my friends believed me when I told them that the show was Japanese, and was really three unconnected shows...not until Robotech Art 1 came out, and they were proven wrong. By that time, though, most of them no longer cared about Robotech one way or another. Victory can be bittersweet...

Edited May 6, 2010 by Gubaba

[Einherjar]

Nobody but the super agro miniscule robotech fan base were truly "influenced" by Robotech. Better yet, most Robotech fans to this day are far from what would be considered "Anime" fans.

In the past I've gotten mixed signals regarding what medium HG has been trying to affiliate themselves with when it comes to Robotech. You know, anime, Western sci-fi, whatever medium and demographic that would be interested by their promotional material.

I'd also venture that Macek DID have an influence on the anime companies that sprang up...but in a negative way. I remember an early ad for US Renditions' release of Gunbuster, where they showed one word balloon crammed with Japanese text, and then another one that said simply, "SEE NORIKO RUN. RUN, NORIKO, RUN!" And then it said, "Something lost in translation?" The was touting their scrupulous fidelity to the original dialogue...at the time, I for one definitely read that as a swipe against Robotech (among other things). I'm not sure if it actually was, though...

I think he helped create companies that handled anime as cost effectively and with maximum market penetration as possible for profit. He directly influenced companies like Four Kids Entertainment not those that showed anime with more respect.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Einherjar

[Gubaba]

I think he helped create companies that handled anime as cost effectively and with maximum market penetration as possible for profit. He directly influenced companies like Four Kids Entertainment not those that showed anime with more respect.

Streamline came out with some good stuff, but I always hated the fact that they (almost) never released subbed versions of their titles. Still, as far as dubs went, they were pretty faithful to the originals, and the voice actors were rarely terrible.

[Einherjar]

Streamline came out with some good stuff, but I always hated the fact that they (almost) never released subbed versions of their titles. Still, as far as dubs went, they were pretty faithful to the originals, and the voice actors were rarely terrible.

But isn't the Four Kids Entertainment example the foregone continuation of the trend started off by HG, Carl Macek, and the like from a business standpoint? That they just cut a lot more corners to make the business viable and get them more money?

Edited May 6, 2010 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

Anyone remember if Robotech fans were accepted by anime fans in the 80s?

Couldn't tell ya... that was a bit before my time...

When I finally met other anime fans in the early 90s [...] everyone was hostile towards Robotech and considered it to be very old. In 1993, more than one person told me that Robotech was ancient and looked like poo. They were saying that in the western anime magazines too.

Since at that point my first experience with anime was still a little while in the future, I didn't get a chance to observe how anime enthusiasts reacted to Robotech in the 90s. Of all the anime magazines I've collected as part of my research into Macross II: Lovers Again, only one of them actually mentions Robotech when discussing the history of the Macross franchise... Animerica Vol.1 #0. In that issue, Robotech is only mentioned briefly, and only then when it's relevant to Macross. The two brief mentions it gets are:

#1. A brief blurb about Streamline's plans to release subtitled versions of Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada as part of the Robotech Perfect Collection. Interestingly, the Robotech episdoes which are intended to be the main purpose of that release are mentioned only in passing, and more as extra baggage than as something worth watching.

#2. An even briefer mention of Robotech as an ungainly mishmash of Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada that enjoyed a brief moment of success in the US before bombing spectacularly, done as an aside in the featured interview with Haruhiko Mikimoto.

[hulagu]

Streamline came out with some good stuff, but I always hated the fact that they (almost) never released subbed versions of their titles. Still, as far as dubs went, they were pretty faithful to the originals, and the voice actors were rarely terrible.

Hmm, I've only watched FoTNS and Windaria/"Once Upon a Time"out of Streamline's works in both their dub and the original, and I have to disagree with the pretty faithful and accurate part for those two at least.

[Gubaba]

Couldn't tell ya... that was a bit before my time...

Since at that point my first experience with anime was still a little while in the future, I didn't get a chance to observe how anime enthusiasts reacted to Robotech in the 90s. Of all the anime magazines I've collected as part of my research into Macross II: Lovers Again, only one of them actually mentions Robotech when discussing the history of the Macross franchise... Animerica Vol.1 #0. In that issue, Robotech is only mentioned briefly, and only then when it's relevant to Macross. The two brief mentions it gets are:

#1. A brief blurb about Streamline's plans to release subtitled versions of Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada as part of the Robotech Perfect Collection. Interestingly, the Robotech episdoes which are intended to be the main purpose of that release are mentioned only in passing, and more as extra baggage than as something worth watching.

#2. An even briefer mention of Robotech as an ungainly mishmash of Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada that enjoyed a brief moment of success in the US before bombing spectacularly, done as an aside in the featured interview with Haruhiko Mikimoto.

Oh yeah...by the '90s, Robotech was vilified by any self-respecting anime fan. That was when all of the "Carl Macek is Satan" stuff started. Waaaaay overboard...thankfully, that's kind of eased up over the intervening decade-and-a-half...

[Keith]

Oh yeah...by the '90s, Robotech was vilified by any self-respecting anime fan. That was when all of the "Carl Macek is Satan" stuff started. Waaaaay overboard...thankfully, that's kind of eased up over the intervening decade-and-a-half...

That's because we finally got our "real" Macross fix.

[Gubaba]

That's because we finally got our "real" Macross fix.

I don't know about you, but I had EVERYTHING Macross on VHS (although the second half of SDFM and all of M7 were raw versions) by 1996.

Ah, the joys of having two VCRs, and three Japanese video rental shops to choose from...

That said, when Dynamite 7 came out, I was stuck. Only one of the video shops had it, and they never got the fourth episode. I didn't actually see that final part until sometime in 2001...

EDIT: Also, I should probably add that my first "real" SDFM fix came courtesy of Carl Macek...in Streamline's Robotech Perfect Collection. Looking back on them, the subs weren't very good, but hey...it was something. I was really pissed when they cancelled that series...

Edited May 6, 2010 by Gubaba

[Einherjar]

Since at that point my first experience with anime was still a little while in the future, I didn't get a chance to observe how anime enthusiasts reacted to Robotech in the 90s. Of all the anime magazines I've collected as part of my research into Macross II: Lovers Again, only one of them actually mentions Robotech when discussing the history of the Macross franchise... Animerica Vol.1 #0. In that issue, Robotech is only mentioned briefly, and only then when it's relevant to Macross. The two brief mentions it gets are:

I have an issue of Animerica which had Robotech/Macross as a highlight on the cover page. I think each got a page or two of discussion by the writer as well as some comparisons like production time-lines. Even there Robotech had a hard time getting out of the 85 episodes, with stuff listed as canceled or unknown status. I think focus was more on Macross, because it took time to mention the upcoming Macross Zero OVA near the end of the article and, well, for showing more life despite being legally restricted to the readership.

[Keith]

I don't know about you, but I had EVERYTHING Macross on VHS (although the second half of SDFM and all of M7 were raw versions) by 1996.

Ah, the joys of having two VCRs, and three Japanese video rental shops to choose from...

That said, when Dynamite 7 came out, I was stuck. Only one of the video shops had it, and they never got the fourth episode. I didn't actually see that final part until sometime in 2001...

EDIT: Also, I should probably add that my first "real" SDFM fix came courtesy of Carl Macek...in Streamline's Robotech Perfect Collection. Looking back on them, the subs weren't very good, but hey...it was something. I was really pissed when they cancelled that series...

They didn't cancel the Perfect Collection series, the company actually folded midway through. Of course had they decied to do one show at a time, they could have gotten all of Macross out, instead of only releasing half of Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada.

As for VHS, I had all of II & Plus obviously, and a fansub connection that had all of 7. Unfortunately, I didn't have a fansub conenction for the original series, so I had to settle for robotech copied from some hollywood video rental tapes... I did however have fansubs of DYRL, FB2012, and mecha Graffiti. Not to mention my dub copy of SUPERDIMENSIONAL FORTRESS MACROSS "NOW WATCH JET JOCKEY"

Edited May 6, 2010 by Keith

[Gubaba]

They didn't cancel the Perfect Collection series, the company actually folded midway through. Of course had they decied to do one show at a time, they could have gotten all of Macross out, instead of only releasing half of Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada.

As for VHS, I had all of II & Plus obviously, and a fansub connection that had all of 7. Unfortunately, I didn't have a fansub conenction for the original series, so I had to settle for robotech copied from some hollywood video rental tapes...

Crap...you're right...they DID fold, didn't they? Too bad...those video tapes were the last thing I ever bought that had the word "ROBOTECH" emblazoned on them in big letters...

And I don't think there ever WAS a fansub for the original series...I never saw one, at any rate. I finally collected all the Central Anime fansubs for M7, but it took a really long time, and I ended up getting them all out of order (basically, whichever volumes the guy at the monthly comic convention happened to remember to bring; when I finally asked him for specific volumes, he got pissed at me, because apparently, I was the only person interested in the series, and he felt he was doing me a big favor by bringing ANY of the tapes at all...insolent anime nerds...whatcha gonna do, right?). Anyway, as such, there was a lot in the later episodes of SDFm and in M7 that mystified me, since my Japanese was nowhere near good enough to understad what everyone was saying...and then I found the Macross Compendium, and wished their synopses were...a little more full.

Anyway, none of this has anything to do with Robotech, but neither did anime fandom at that point.

[Legioss]

I don't see any other way besides the comic books that Robotech could be a gateway to anime. Robotech itself didn't and still doesn't today make people want to be anime fans. Exposure to other anime and manga can.

The way it happened for me is I saw an ad for the Comico comics in the end credits. Then I went to the comic book store to buy some. I got my Robotech Masters comics and saw that Dirty Pair and Urusei Yatsura were in a similar art style. Then I found out about anime through the letters pages in those comics and in Protoculture Addicts. Protoculture Addicts was a Robotech fanzine but there was Anime-Zine and Animag too. Eventually you'd find out about anime from Robotech characters having big eyes but you had to do some pretty deep investigating.

In some areas, getting anime tapes was like getting a bag of weed. It was like I know this guy that can copy these for you if you give me your tapes.

[Dynaman]

I don't see any other way besides the comic books that Robotech could be a gateway to anime. Robotech itself didn't and still doesn't today make people want to be anime fans. Exposure to other anime and manga can.

RT is what got this Anime fan started. Although I would not watch it any longer (simply because of the anouncer/narrator, it was annoying back in the day and unbearable now). I'm sure there are a few more like me out in the world too. Now though, without RT being aired at any reasonable hour (or at all?) I doubt it is any kind of anime influence.

[Seto Kaiba]

Oh yeah...by the '90s, Robotech was vilified by any self-respecting anime fan. That was when all of the "Carl Macek is Satan" stuff started. Waaaaay overboard...thankfully, that's kind of eased up over the intervening decade-and-a-half...

Eh... I didn't get much of a "vilification" vibe from that Animerica piece. To me, it felt more like a casual dismissal of the whole Robotech franchise as no longer relevant or interesting now that the originals were available, rather than a declaration that Robotech was a horrible crime perpetrated against Macross.

I don't see any other way besides the comic books that Robotech could be a gateway to anime. Robotech itself didn't and still doesn't today make people want to be anime fans. Exposure to other anime and manga can.

Granted, the whole Robotech franchise seems geared to deny the very existence of the genre it's supposed to belong to. Harmony Gold's stance that Robotech is superior by far to the "flawed" originals seems like a calculated attempt to put the fans in a mindset where they're predisposed to be dismissive of unedited, uncensored anime. I suppose that's why so many Robotech fans seem to be completely clueless about anime, and why several still insist that Robotech is something completely different from anime.

[VFTF1]

Legioss makes a good a fair point. I too, playing the paladium role playing games and reading the novels, didn't suddenly think to myself "gee - there's this awesome thing called anime of which these Robotech shows are a part" ...

Instead, I had this "feeling" that the content of Robotech was somehow ... different...from Transformers and GI Joe, which were so much more generic and which featured episodes that always returned to the status quo from the beginning so as not to disturb the premise of the show too much...

Robotech felt like something of a mystery - somehow out of place.

But no - it didn't lead me directly to anime.

In fact - I think Harmony Gold had a financial interest NOT to lead people to anime - namely - they wanted to keep it a big secret so they could just import shows themselves and do what they wanted.

If not for the development of the internet, anime would be something that a few lucky souls knew about, and the rest of us got spoon fed to with dubbing and re-tailoring for a "western" audience a la the likes of companies like HG.

Pete

[VF5SS]

Mospeada wasn't a bad show?

Do you know what it's competition was at the time? The last days of Orguss and friggen Dorvack. There's no excuse for running for fewer episodes than Dorvack.

And I swear you guys still have the Robotech butthurt mentality over Southern Cross. waah waah none of my favorite characters from Macross are in it.

[Dynaman]

And I swear you guys still have the Robotech butthurt mentality over Southern Cross. waah waah none of my favorite characters from Macross are in it.

Not me, as soon as I saw the veritech that went from armored robot, to a tank where the pilot SAT OUTSIDE the tank I thought the show was a loser. I can't remember, did the silly thing fly too?

[Gubaba]

Not me, as soon as I saw the veritech that went from armored robot, to a tank where the pilot SAT OUTSIDE the tank I thought the show was a loser. I can't remember, did the silly thing fly too?

It hovered. Does that count?

[nexxstrait]

If not for the development of the internet, anime would be something that a few lucky souls knew about, and the rest of us got spoon fed to with dubbing and re-tailoring for a "western" audience a la the likes of companies like HG.

Pete

By "western" you mean "American", right? Even Macek and the other Robotech "authors" said several times that with "westernizing" they really meant "something that an average viewer can watch on american TV"

It's interesting to note that HG was (is still?) owned by a financial partner (in crime) of Silvio Berlusconi, Frank "Farouk" Agrama. He had a company in Rome that used to re-sell inflated movie rights to the industry. In Italy Robotech was first broadcast on Berlusconi's tv networks, famous for their "butcher-approach" to anime series. Coincidence?

Still, for all the butchering (no nudes, several name changes and other "minor" cuts), Italy was somehow an anime paradise. Nothing compared to what americans did with Robotech, which was not the only frankenstein-series out there, from what I heard: Voltron, Force Five and (gods forgive them) Captain harlock and the Queen of a Thousand years.

Edited May 6, 2010 by nexxstrait

[Jasonc]

For many Robotech fans, I'm sure it's an easy copout to say that it got them into anime. I could easily say the same, but in really thinking about it, that's not the truth. In being a robot fan since back in the early days (I had Shogun Warriors and all that before the word anime was probably even termed), and while being an old Robotech fan, it didn't lead me to search for "anime". I think it was seeing DYRL in 89 or 90 that gatewayed my knowledge of other shows out there. Orguss, Gunbuster, those were things that I became aware of later, that continued to grow my interest in anime. Still, I didn't pursue finding VHS tapes or anything at that time.

It was probably around 98 or 99, when I started searching the internet for all these old shows, that I realized that there was more Macross out there than SDF, DYRL, and Plus, and in searching for Orguss stuff, I found links to a whole world of "new" shows. So, while I could pull a fanboy statement and say that it was Robotech or Macross, in reality, it doesn't seem plausible to have a blanket interest in anime based on one show. It may spark it, but I think it's bigger envelopes of interests that get people into anime. Whether the intrigue of Japanese culture, animation in general, robots, or whatever.

[jenius]

Mospeada wasn't a bad show?

Do you know what it's competition was at the time? The last days of Orguss and friggen Dorvack. There's no excuse for running for fewer episodes than Dorvack.

And I swear you guys still have the Robotech butthurt mentality over Southern Cross. waah waah none of my favorite characters from Macross are in it.

I replace your subjectivity with my own! Waaah waaah...

You like Southern Cross, we get it, good for you. Mospeada did much better than Southern Cross did, mostly 'cause it wasn't as bad. Sorry you disagree.

Those of you saying "Robotech wasn't a gateway to anime" are viewing it well outside of context. Back in the 80s there was all sorts of publicity about Robotech which generated publicity for anime in general. Macek said it was a remark in a news article that the japanese import Robotech was more popular than a Disney release that was in theaters that triggered the creation of Robotech: the movie. How much actually came from all that? It's tough to say... but it's easy to say the small handful of anecdotes from people in this thread won't even scratch the surface of 80s reality.

Edited May 6, 2010 by jenius

[VFTF1]

Well actually; I AM 80s reality

Pete

[Jasonc]

I replace your subjectivity with my own! Waaah waaah...

You like Southern Cross, we get it, good for you. Mospeada did much better than Southern Cross did, mostly 'cause it wasn't as bad. Sorry you disagree.

Those of you saying "Robotech wasn't a gateway to anime" are viewing it well outside of context. Back in the 80s there was all sorts of publicity about Robotech which generated publicity for anime in general. Macek said it was a remark in a news article that the japanese import Robotech was more popular than a Disney release that was in theaters that triggered the creation of Robotech: the movie. How much actually came from all that? It's tough to say... but it's easy to say the small handful of anecdotes from people in this thread won't even scratch the surface of 80s reality.

I dunno, I didn't have a clue what "anime" was, after Robotech. Maybe I'm just different, but in anycase, Robotech didn't open my eyes to Japanese anime. If anything, and in a very indirect manner, DYRL got me curious as to what other Macross and other similar shows were out. But then again, it wasn't till much later that I connected with those "other" series, and anime as a whole.

I guess to me, it's liken to being a fan of basketball because you saw Kobe Bryant. If that's all you're going on, I'd arguably call you a basketball fan. That doesn't mean you're not a Kobe Bryant fan. But if you get to know the game, can appreciate it in general and actually have some fondness for the sport, then yeah, I would say you're a fan.

[Dynaman]

It hovered. Does that count?

Close enough!

[BeyondTheGrave]

Oh yeah...by the '90s, Robotech was vilified by any self-respecting anime fan. That was when all of the "Carl Macek is Satan" stuff started. Waaaaay overboard...thankfully, that's kind of eased up over the intervening decade-and-a-half...

I'll take Macek over Bobby Kotick.

[DrStrangelove]

Anyone remember if Robotech fans were accepted by anime fans in the 80s?

In the 80's It was still Japanimation

[Seto Kaiba]

In fact - I think Harmony Gold had a financial interest NOT to lead people to anime - namely - they wanted to keep it a big secret so they could just import shows themselves and do what they wanted.

Oh, no doubt of that... especially given that they STILL refer to the fact that Robotech is made from three unrelated anime titles as the show's "dirty little secret". If Robotech II: the Sentinels proved anything about Robotech as a whole, it was that the franchise's "creative team" had absolutely zero creative talent. The only way they could produce a marketable product was to take someone else's work, slap a hastily rewritten story onto it, and play it off as something they came up with on their own.

And I swear you guys still have the Robotech butthurt mentality over Southern Cross. waah waah none of my favorite characters from Macross are in it.

Eh... it's possible that some people are taking that particular attitude. However, I expect it's more to do with the fact that actually sitting down and watching the unedited Southern Cross series practically guarantees pain and suffering for the viewer. The show is just a clusterfart of bad decisions. The story stank, and was made even worse by trying to wrap it up abruptly, the mechanical designs were just idiotic, and the cast was completely unlikeable. Even the music was bad by the standards of the day. As I've said in the past, Southern Cross is probably the one original show that actually benefited, story-wise, from inclusion in Robotech, if only because it was tied into characters and stories that didn't completely suck.

It should say something that the only die-hard Southern Cross fan of my personal acquaintance primarily likes the show because he has a massive axe to grind against the entire officer class and pilots in particular, and the Southern Cross series focuses mainly on ground troops led by officers who are generally either either maliciously incompetent (Claude Leon) or just pants-on-head retarded (Jeanne). If you know anything about Southern Cross it should come as no surprise that his favorite character was Andrzej Sławski (Angelo Dante in the RT dub), the only one who seems to realize that Jeanne falls into the same intelligence demographic as the office furniture.

I dunno, I didn't have a clue what "anime" was, after Robotech. Maybe I'm just different, but in anycase, Robotech didn't open my eyes to Japanese anime.

No, you're not in any way atypical for that... in fact most Robotech fans don't have a bloody clue what anime is, and don't care. They just want more Macekres. It's only after they seek out other stuff for whatever reason that their eyes are opened.

[taksraven]

Saying that old shows like Robotech were what got the ball rolling and helped give anime its current level of recognition is nothing short of absurd. They weren't what made the public sit up and take notice, and most of them aren't remembered fondly, if at all. It's the stuff from the late 90s that deserves credit for making the anime industry more accessible.

Nup, I would never limit the moderate success of anime to the west to such a small time-frame. Its been a REALLY long slowburn: (If anybody wants to correct me or make additions feel free, I know that there are plenty of mistakes here....)

* The First Wave of anime interest in the west started in the late 60's early 70's with programs such as the b&w Astroboy. (was Gigantor ever seen in the west, I suspect it was)

* Second wave. A fairly big one. Late 70's early 80's with the popularity of Battle of the Planets, Star Blazers, Kimba the White Lion and the colour series of Astro-Boy.

* Third wave. Late 80's & early 90's. Shows like Robotech, Voltron and I think that Akira did a lot as well. Leads almost directly on to the last really discernable wave and that was when Manga started releasing a lot of the stuff they had got. (Macross Plus, Fist of the North Star, Ninja Scroll, etc) and that pretty much leads us up to today.

You also have to factor in things like the introduction of home video which created a market for a lot of stuff that couldn't get on tv, etc.........

Anyway, like I said, its hard to narrow it down to one era.

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

So Robotech was either really groundbreaking or just another show opening the floodgates for anime in the history of the anime distribution industry. Is it possible to just be realistic about the whole situation, especially considering where it is these days? People are forgetting that those behind it were not particularly talented enough to make, or maintain, a franchise by themselves. They're only good for "translating" foreign material for people's consumption and personal gain.

[taksraven]

So Robotech was either really groundbreaking or just another show opening the floodgates for anime in the history of the anime distribution industry. Is it possible to just be realistic about the whole situation, especially considering where it is these days? People are forgetting that those behind it were not particularly talented enough to make, or maintain, a franchise by themselves. They're only good for "translating" foreign material for people's consumption and personal gain.

Oh don't worry, as a franchise now its deader than flares, we all know that. But it was part of a larger "explosion" of anime during the 80's. (And thats refuting the claims of those that RT single-handedly had a major impact on anime and its availability in the west)

Taksraven

[Keith]

All I know is if you look at any of the great "hubs" of robotech fandom, you will find many things, but anime fans are very rare among them.