HG and Robotech Debates

[terry the lone wolf]

Yeah...I know of about six! Maybe even SEVEN!! Amazing!!!

Debating numbers is pointless because we'll never reach a concensus. The point is though Robotech might not be on the Transformers level but it's certainly not like Captain Harlock and the Queen of a 1000 Years.

[VF5SS]

The point is though Robotech might not be on the Transformers level but it's certainly not like Captain Harlock and the Queen of a 1000 Years.

that's because most people just watched Harlock and Queen Millennia by themselves and stopped caring about the edited version.

Robotech had enough supplementary material to make people think it was going somewhere.

Turns out it's going nowhere as is.

[HappyPenguins]

The foundations for this franchise were not very good in the first place, considering the dirty little secrets it has. How anyone still trusts these people is beyond me, especially when a lot of them are older than me. How HG manages material should have been a clear sign of all of this.

HG's always mishandled the franchise, but before the shadow chronicles came along I remember the fandom was never as bad as it is now. Then again I was a lurker in those days but would post on Rt.com every now and then. Back then there were fewer bans as well and less censorship so now I ask myself, what happened? Then I realize I already know the answer to that... The shadow chronicles happened and it divided the fandom. I know that there's always been drama with the fans, especially since some like the novels and others hate them, but TSC was the final nail in the coffin, and it's what unhinged a lot of fans and led them to acting the way they do now. Whether they hate it or love it, TSC played a big part in separating the fandom.

[Seto Kaiba]

Maybe they all side with Leonard...?

It would be hilarious if it were true. Coincidentally, it also goes a long way towards proving that the Robotech comic books sell bugger-all... after all, if these people side with Leonard, they ought to find Tommy's comic book depictions of Leonard as being a morally-bankrupt traitor working to destroy with UEG from within offensive in the extreme... yet they don't seem to even be aware of it... ;-)

And there's art imitating life, as certain people, and HG, have taken a TV show to extremes. So I'm thinking, for something described as deep, thought provoking, and mature by people, no one actually learned anything from the Robotech storyline. They got distracted by the pew-pew-pew-pew-pew-pew & Rick Hunter.

Of course not... why do you think Shadow Chronicles was made like a cheap knockoff of Battlestar Galactica with all the depth of a teaspoon. All the Robotech fans care about is cool giant robots, killing evil aliens, and Macross Saga characters.

Debating numbers is pointless because we'll never reach a concensus. The point is though Robotech might not be on the Transformers level but it's certainly not like Captain Harlock and the Queen of a 1000 Years.

Eh... as someone who, despite his best efforts not to, still has a good deal of contact with the Robotech fanbase, I'd say Gubaba's probably pretty close to the truth in terms of the number of fan projects. The majority of Robotech's fan projects were done BEFORE Robotech.com opened, and no longer exist now that Geocities has discontinued its free webhosting service. The overwhelming majority of such projects were RPG expansions and fan-fictions which attempted to build up Robotech's universe by stealing content from elsewhere (the particular favorites appear to have been Macross and Gundam). Nowadays, the majority of fan-works authors aren't doing it for the chance to make something of quality... they're doing it to get a free ten points towards their next "promotion" on Robotech.com, and consequentially the quality of their work is god-awful. You could count the number of Robotech fan projects out there that aren't half-assed on one hand... UEG's Robotech Genesis is gone, Atlantech and Destroid's Last Dance abandoned the Robotech setting entirely... the only ones left are that recent live short and Zen72's Protoculture Times podcast/blog.

You've got a couple dozen independent projects out there that are garbage-quality and/or will never get anywhere... like MEMO's plans for a "Robotech Codex", MEMO's "Vermillion Productions" fan-film, Brian Mcafee's Robotech Anthology, and the podcasts of Doug Bendo and JuanRT.

[taksraven]

As I've said, even bullcrap can make money if marketed correctly. Nostalgia will only bring so many people. Beyond that, you'll have to market something else besides nostalgia.

ALL films make a profit eventually. Some just take decades longer than others.....

Taksraven

Edited April 17, 2010 by taksraven

[Einherjar]

Robotech had enough supplementary material to make people think it was going somewhere.

Turns out it's going nowhere as is.

I'd also argue that thanks to legalities, Robotech no longer has a past either. It's restricted to a bunch of Tommy Yune's comic books and the original 85, and requires a lot of new, original world building developments by Tommy Yune and co. just to get the franchise back to the present (Shadow Chronicles). There's a lot of new gaps in the storyline someone needs to work on. That also means working with critical restrictions since HG is definitely not equipped to do any of that, and the persistent legitimate Macross problems.

[terry the lone wolf]

It would be hilarious if it were true. Coincidentally, it also goes a long way towards proving that the Robotech comic books sell bugger-all... after all, if these people side with Leonard, they ought to find Tommy's comic book depictions of Leonard as being a morally-bankrupt traitor working to destroy with UEG from within offensive in the extreme... yet they don't seem to even be aware of it... ;-)

Of course not... why do you think Shadow Chronicles was made like a cheap knockoff of Battlestar Galactica with all the depth of a teaspoon. All the Robotech fans care about is cool giant robots, killing evil aliens, and Macross Saga characters.

Eh... as someone who, despite his best efforts not to, still has a good deal of contact with the Robotech fanbase, I'd say Gubaba's probably pretty close to the truth in terms of the number of fan projects. The majority of Robotech's fan projects were done BEFORE Robotech.com opened, and no longer exist now that Geocities has discontinued its free webhosting service. The overwhelming majority of such projects were RPG expansions and fan-fictions which attempted to build up Robotech's universe by stealing content from elsewhere (the particular favorites appear to have been Macross and Gundam). Nowadays, the majority of fan-works authors aren't doing it for the chance to make something of quality... they're doing it to get a free ten points towards their next "promotion" on Robotech.com, and consequentially the quality of their work is god-awful. You could count the number of Robotech fan projects out there that aren't half-assed on one hand... UEG's Robotech Genesis is gone, Atlantech and Destroid's Last Dance abandoned the Robotech setting entirely... the only ones left are that recent live short and Zen72's Protoculture Times podcast/blog.

You've got a couple dozen independent projects out there that are garbage-quality and/or will never get anywhere... like MEMO's plans for a "Robotech Codex", MEMO's "Vermillion Productions" fan-film, Brian Mcafee's Robotech Anthology, and the podcasts of Doug Bendo and JuanRT.

You forgot to mention Project Robotech with their new fan film http://www.projectrobotech.com/ and even the Robotech Shadow Chronicle Yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Robotech_ShadowChronicles

I didn't want to debate on how many fan projects are still around because they're not too many left but I'm always surprised that with a shrinking fan base new fan projects always seem to pop up.

[areaseven]

ALL films make a profit eventually. Some just take decades longer than others.....

Taksraven

Really? So when will Zyzzyx Road eventually do that?

[DrStrangelove]

Really? So when will Zyzzyx Road eventually do that?

40000CE or right around the time Shadow Rising is released

[taksraven]

Really? So when will Zyzzyx Road eventually do that?

Hopefully before it enters public domain......

And also, get yer facts straight. It made 300K + in international release.....

Taksraven

Edited April 17, 2010 by taksraven

[HappyPenguins]

You forgot to mention Project Robotech with their new fan film http://www.projectrobotech.com/ and even the Robotech Shadow Chronicle Yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Robotech_ShadowChronicles

I didn't want to debate on how many fan projects are still around because they're not too many left but I'm always surprised that with a shrinking fan base new fan projects always seem to pop up.

There is nothing wrong with Robotech fan projects and I do support them, but in all honesty you can't do anything serious with them. you can't publish them, you cant get HG's support without them wanting to take over, and if they see your project as a threat they will come after you with a C&D . That's why I feel there's no point in doing RT fan projects anymore, just do your own stuff, create your own world.

Edited April 17, 2010 by HappyPenguins

[Duke Togo]

First of all I grew up in the Baltimore area and RT was shown in D.C. & Balti. at the same time. So I'm sure N.Y., L.A., and other large cities broadcasted Robotech. So this revisionist history of comparing RT to Thunderbirds 2080 or those Gaiking/Grendizer cartoons (both incidently were shown on Cable) is ridiculous. Even if some markets didn't broadcast the cartoon they still had the RPGs and novels.

I also wonder why there are so many RT fan projects out there if hardly anybody watched the shows?

First, when did I compare Robotech to either of those shows? And secondly, what fan projects?

I knew four kids in high school (I'm in my mid-30's) who knew what Robotech was, and not a single one in my adult life (outside of those I've met on this forum). Without a true, dedicated toy line, the show was never going to be truly that popular (it didn't help that it had a really shitty time slot in many markets).

Robotech was certainly never as popular as Thundercats, which itself was nowhere near the levels seen by GI Joe and the Transformers.

[terry the lone wolf]

First, when did I compare Robotech to either of those shows? And secondly, what fan projects?

I knew four kids in high school (I'm in my mid-30's) who knew what Robotech was, and not a single one in my adult life (outside of those I've met on this forum). Without a true, dedicated toy line, the show was never going to be truly that popular (it didn't help that it had a really shitty time slot in many markets).

Robotech was certainly never as popular as Thundercats, which itself was nowhere near the levels seen by GI Joe and the Transformers.

When I was a kid it came on at 3:30 or 4:00 p.m. weekdays as part of animeish hour with Voltron on WBFF 45. Later when the show was in repeats it found itself on weekend mornings. At my elementary school RT was the talk of the cafeteria especially the Macross Saga. Then Geppi's comic world began selling RT comics and the toy commercials began popping up on TV. I had a friend who told me where to buy imported Robotech toys (the ones made in Taiwan). Robotech's spotlight was brief but it had the benifit of syndication and wasn't trapped on basic cable. Back in the mid-80's in Baltimore cable wasn't available you had to move to the surrounding counties for that. I used those other shows as examples of rarely seen anime that poped up on the home video market.

Also for the people who didn't have RT on regular tv didn't they watch episodes on video?

I feel the main reason why kids didn't flock to RT like Voltron or G.I.Joe because it wasn't one dimensional and for a kid's cartoon very mature. Those other shows their heroes had either one name or code names. No back story and a lot of explosions. Robotech retained a lot if not all plot elements from it's original source. Carl Macek admitted he was aiming at High School or College age students not necessarily elementary children. I was into Star Trek & Buck Rodgers and most Sci-Fi shows. I liked the childrens' shows too but RT was different.

Edited April 17, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[Einherjar]

Debating numbers is pointless because we'll never reach a concensus. The point is though Robotech might not be on the Transformers level but it's certainly not like Captain Harlock and the Queen of a 1000 Years.

Supposedly, there's enough out there to deserve a fan works award or something for Comic-Con. However, I think the whole thing is fixed or biased in some way.

[Duke Togo]

I feel the main reason why kids didn't flock to RT like Voltron or G.I.Joe because it wasn't one dimensional and for a kid's cartoon very mature.

It was the lack of toys. That was the biggest factor, and it's been covered to death over the past few decades as to why it was not more successful. It was virtually unheard of for a cartoon to launch in the 80's without toy support. There is a reason for that.

[terry the lone wolf]

I agree most of the cartoons of the 80s were simplistic 1/2 hour toy commercials but Robotech and Starblazers stood out. The shows had depth and maybe a little soap opera like. These cartoons wern't appealing to kids who just wanted a quick thrill. The toys came later for RT. I don't think it was a lack of toys they were just horrible.

[HappyPenguins]

It was the lack of toys. That was the biggest factor, and it's been covered to death over the past few decades as to why it was not more successful. It was virtually unheard of for a cartoon to launch in the 80's without toy support. There is a reason for that.

A lot of the toys looked pretty suckish too from what I had seen

the matchbox action figures being the worst

[SIGHUP]

Supposedly, there's enough out there to deserve a fan works award or something for Comic-Con. However, I think the whole thing is fixed or biased in some way.

That's where I come in. As long as I'm there, I'll do what I can against corruption.

Geez, that sounds like a cheesy line from a tv show.

[chrisk]

That's where I come in. As long as I'm there, I'll do what I can against corruption.

Geez, that sounds like a cheesy line from a tv show.

SIGHUP, would it be too much to ask if you cosplayed as a Macross character?

[taksraven]

A lot of the toys looked pretty suckish too from what I had seen

the matchbox action figures being the worst

I think part of the problem was that action figures like that were not Matchbox's traditional toy products. At least I think Macek blamed that as being part of the problem. (Has Matchbox got any experience with action figures??)

Taksraven

p.s. HappyPenguins, your new avatar is unnerving me......

[SIGHUP]

SIGHUP, would it be too much to ask if you cosplayed as a Macross character?

Well I was planning on going as Ranka!

[HappyPenguins]

Well I was planning on going as Ranka!

hawt!

[Maxtype]

Well I was planning on going as Ranka!

I think Klan would be a better choice,Dude.

[Funkenstein]

I think Klan would be a better choice,Dude.

You calling him flat chested and/or a fattie?

[Maxtype]

You calling him flat chested and/or a fattie?

Well, not as such.

I just think Ranka is over-represented. I know! SIGHUP should go as Grace!

[Duke Togo]

I agree most of the cartoons of the 80s were simplistic 1/2 hour toy commercials but Robotech and Starblazers stood out. The shows had depth and maybe a little soap opera like. These cartoons wern't appealing to kids who just wanted a quick thrill. The toys came later for RT. I don't think it was a lack of toys they were just horrible.

It's not that they weren't appealing; they simply were not seen by kids. And I can guarantee you that not one person I know (outside of these forums) has ever even heard of Starblazers, let alone seen it.

You might not *think* the lack of toy support was an issue, but the reality was it was a huge issue. Robotech lacked toy (and thus commercial) support, and in many markets ended up with poor time slots (if shown at all). Again, this has been covered countless times over the past 20 years.

Whatever you think of Robotech, Macross, Southern Cross, or MOSPEADA, the fact is that they were not very popular in the U.S. It is my opinion that this is because they were not widely seen, not because any of those series sucked.

Robotech is not the Transformers. It's not GI Joe. It's not the Thundercats. Hell, it's not even as popular as the Smurfs. It has a niche market, nothing more, nothing less. To expect more out of it is unrealistic.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Duke Togo

[Jasonc]

Well, not as such.

I just think Ranka is over-represented. I know! SIGHUP should go as Grace!

Nah man, Songstress of the Galaxy! Hahaha. As for the Matchbox fiasco, their toys were hit an miss. As a kid, I collected the Zentraedi figs, Battlepods, invid, and the joke machines. But I could never get into the hero figs. They always looked so freakin fugly. Scott was alright though, as his hair was short, so adapting that to a figure worked out OK. Rick Hunter's mullet though, not a good representation.

[Gubaba]

Nah man, Songstress of the Galaxy! Hahaha. As for the Matchbox fiasco, their toys were hit an miss. As a kid, I collected the Zentraedi figs, Battlepods, invid, and the joke machines. But I could never get into the hero figs. They always looked so freakin fugly. Scott was alright though, as his hair was short, so adapting that to a figure worked out OK. Rick Hunter's mullet though, not a good representation.

A while backed, I found some Robotech stuff on Nico Nico Video. Along with clips of Shadow Chronicles (with suitably nasty/funny comments from the viewers...my favorite was when Marcus's pal died, someone wrote "KAKIZAKIIIIII!!!"), I found a collection of all the Matchbox toy commercials. And while some of the comments were making fun of the toys, a lot of people were actually coming out and saying things like "Wow, they're big!" and "I want an American Reguld!"

It's here if you're a member: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm541406

[terry the lone wolf]

*Think* Whew, I think I've been sniped by the Duke....

Well I count myself lucky that I lived in those *few* markets that broadcasted RT but also played it in the after school hours.

Waking up at 6:00 a.m. to watch RT would just bite...

[Duke Togo]

*Think* Whew, I think I've been sniped by the Duke....

Well I count myself lucky that I lived in those *few* markets that broadcasted RT but also played it in the after school hours.

Waking up at 6:00 a.m. to watch RT would just bite...

Where I lived it was on in the afternoon when I got home from school, as well.

I'm alot different than most of us whose first exposure to Macross was through Robotech. I came out of the series loving MOSPEADA and not really caring about the rest. It wasn't until I saw DYRL around '90 or '91 that I became a Macross fan.

[chrisk]

...Along with clips of Shadow Chronicles (with suitably nasty/funny comments from the viewers...my favorite was when Marcus's pal died, someone wrote "KAKIZAKIIIIII!!!")

I have to say, this simply affirms my firm belief that Shadow Chronicles is a "film" ripe with parody and nitpicking. Have you seen this guy's epic 70 minute Starwars: The Phantom Menace review?

What's amazing about this guy is that he was more or less able to articulate why the Starwars prequels were such disappointing and ultimately terrible movies. At first, I thought I heard all the arguments on why the new trilogy sucked, yet he was able to come up with new points that had me laughing from start to finish.

Now I know we've all had varying reasons why Shadow Chronicles is junk and probably should have been left in Tommy Yune's drawing board. But imagine a parody/movie review that delves into Robotech's impossibly convoluted timeline, or a brief history of how Robotech has humorously cannibalized story and merchandising ideas from the original Japanese Macross franchise time and time again, or maybe even an entire segment devoted to Carl Macek's failed Sentinels series and how it was more or less brought back by Yune due to fan pressure.

I'm just throwing this idea out to any of the talented, charismatic, objective Robotech/Macross fan (sorry Dougie) who has a good microphone, some decent video editing tools.

And don't worry about any Cease and Desist crap. It's in the realm of parody so you should be safe.

Well I was planning on going as Ranka!

Please wear the Tuna Hat. In the bondage gear of Sheryl. I'd love to see how MEMO would react.

[Gubaba]

Now I know we've all had varying reasons why Shadow Chronicles is junk and probably should have been left in Tommy Yune's drawing board. But imagine a parody/movie review that delves into Robotech's impossibly convoluted timeline, or a brief history of how Robotech has humorously cannibalized story and merchandising ideas from the original Japanese Macross franchise time and time again, or maybe even an entire segment devoted to Carl Macek's failed Sentinels series and how it was more or less brought back by Yune due to fan pressure.

I'm just throwing this idea out to any of the talented, charismatic, objective Robotech/Macross fan (sorry Dougie) who has a good microphone, some decent video editing tools.

And don't worry about any Cease and Desist crap. It's in the realm of parody so you should be safe.

I think that's more effort than any of us care to put into Shadow Chronicles. What would be the point? If the movie had been mega-super-kablammy-successful (like the Star Wars prequels), that would've been one thing.

But a small number of people bought it, and a smaller number of people liked it. It'll go away on its own, given enough time.

[Jasonc]

I think that's more effort than any of us care to put into Shadow Chronicles. What would be the point? If the movie had been mega-super-kablammy-successful (like the Star Wars prequels), that would've been one thing.

But a small number of people bought it, and a smaller number of people liked it. It'll go away on its own, given enough time.

The problem with that task, is that it would require one, or more people to watch it again, and probably again after that. Things I know for a fact I cannot bring myself to do. I've seen it 2.5 times, and I think that's about all I can stomach. The fact that HG keeps bragging about it being a top 10 pick in some no namer magazine, and winning best animated film in some film festival where it was pretty much the only entry actually helps people turn away from it (except the diehards, and no harm there).

[Einherjar]

J T of the Protoculture Times might be doing an analysis for Shadow Chronicles somewhere down the road, but he's pretty much made people know his thoughts about it already.

For parody, we all might have to settle with the parodies that are currently out there in the Internet; Not Necessarily the Sentinels, Khyron's Counterattack, and segments of Bad American Dubbing. No one else cares.

Remember this classic?

See, giving Shadow Chronicles more attention isn't worth it.

[SIGHUP]

Please wear the Tuna Hat. In the bondage gear of Sheryl. I'd love to see how MEMO would react.

Hmm not a bad idea. But the Tuna Hat belongs to Phred, he's the guy who made it. Besides that thing is too freakin' heavy. On second thought, cosplaying might be too much effor so might just go as 30-year old guy who likes anime, That way I won't have to put a costume together.