HG and Robotech Debates

[kung flu]

Ok, i watched the first 3 episodes of Robotech on you tube. I have to say i really can't get my head around the changes and the voice acting is terrible for some of the characters. I thought the guy who did roys voice was good though Its hard to try and think of Robotech as something else other than macross and so far most of the plot has remained intact. Not sure if i would want to see the rest since i could just watch Macross instead.

[Einherjar]

Who really cares what they think up? Who really gives a frak about the Zor clone or anything else?

That's the beauty of cliffhangers, isn't it? Whether fans like it or not, HG's forcing them to wait for the next installment to resolve long overdue plot threads. They're treating Robotech like a comic book; there are no endings except when people who are not Zor or Rem die or become irrelevant to the story.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Einherjar

[Moly_Sigang]

Was the script written before or after

Gundam 00

?

I totally made the whole thing up about the

suicidal Zor clones kamikaze'ing

, though it would be an awesome fight for the REF.

That's the beauty of cliffhangers, isn't it? Whether fans like it or not, HG's forcing them to wait for the next installment to resolve long overdue plot threads. They're treating Robotech like a comic book; there are no endings except when people who are not Zor or Rem die or become irrelevant to the story.

If they're treating Robotech like a comic book, does that mean that after 20 years, HG will once again reboot the franchise with Robotech: Crisis of Infinite Rickroll?

[Einherjar]

If they're treating Robotech like a comic book, does that mean that after 20 years, HG will once again reboot the franchise with Robotech: Crisis of Infinite Rickroll?

Is that not the reason why the proposed LAM exists? It's already considered to be a non-official multiverse, if only because of questionable decisions.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Einherjar

[Gubaba]

Just got a PM from 1st Border Red Devil...apparently, there IS wiggle room at the end of End of the Circle to continue the story, as Rick and Lisa prepare to take the SDF-4 to the Andromeda Galaxy...

[Seto Kaiba]

That's the beauty of cliffhangers, isn't it? Whether fans like it or not, HG's forcing them to wait for the next installment to resolve long overdue plot threads. They're treating Robotech like a comic book; there are no endings except when people who are not Zor or Rem die or become irrelevant to the story.

Honestly, considering the sheer quantity of reused material and Harmony Gold's subsequent failure to continue the story, I'm rather inclined to write Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles off as yet another false start, despite the fact that the movie did actually get released. It really does speak volumes about the quality of Harmony Gold's work when their only means of maintaining the fanbase's interest in continuing the "Shadow Saga" is to keep the fate of Rick Hunter, the only character the fans still care about, up in the air indefinitely with a sequence of cliffhanger endings. They did it in Prelude, leaving his fate uncertain after the SDF-3 was caught too close to a neutron-s missile detonation, and again in Shadow Chronicles with the SDF-3 stuck in orbit of a black hole and under attack by Haydonites. Eventually they'll run out of mortal peril for the guy to be in and they'll have no choice but to string fans along with whether or not he'll make it to the toilet in time.

[VF5SS]

Just got a PM from 1st Border Red Devil...

He calls me mean things.

[Gubaba]

He calls me mean things.

He also apparently has no posting privileges.

[VF5SS]

That's because he thinks the Slyphide fighter is transformable amongst other things.

[Wanzerfan]

According to First Border Red Devil, it's not Kevin McKeever. Admiral McKeever is unrelated.

Me and my dumbass assumptions. I must really enjoy the taste of shoe leather.

Ok, i watched the first 3 episodes of Robotech on you tube. I have to say i really can't get my head around the changes and the voice acting is terrible for some of the characters. I thought the guy who did roys voice was good though Its hard to try and think of Robotech as something else other than macross and so far most of the plot has remained intact. Not sure if i would want to see the rest since i could just watch Macross instead.

Dan Woren did the voice of Roy Fokker in The Macross Saga.

[Gubaba]

Me and my dumbass assumptions. I must really enjoy the taste of shoe leather.

*shrug* It's an understandable assumption. I think we all did a double-take at the name.

Dan Woren did the voice of Roy Fokker in The Macross Saga.

And (strangely) "Yang" Neumann in Macross Plus. Going from playing a 7-foot-tall, hard-drinking ladies man to a scrawny, 18-year-old, bespectacled geek...is that career progress...?

[taksraven]

And (strangely) "Yang" Neumann in Macross Plus. Going from playing a 7-foot-tall, hard-drinking ladies man to a scrawny, 18-year-old, bespectacled geek...is that career progress...?

Nah, thats called versatility.

Taksraven

[anime52k8]

That's because he thinks the Slyphide fighter is transformable amongst other things.

well it is...

[Einherjar]

Where is that from, the Palladium RPG?

[Seto Kaiba]

He also apparently has no posting privileges.

Odd... Brooklyn Red Leg/1st Border Red Devil always struck me as one of the more levelheaded Robotech fans, as well as a fairly knowledgeable person about Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross. I wonder what he did to lose his posting privileges here...

That's because he thinks the Slyphide fighter is transformable amongst other things.

Nitpick train comin' in to the station... that fighter's real name is the "Shrewfield", or at least that's what the Southern Cross artbooks call it. Its two Robotech names, "Specter" and "Sylphid(e)" were both pulled out of thin air, the former by Palladium's writers, and the latter by Peter Walker and company. Like pretty much everything in Southern Cross, the artbooks offer only a name and a picture, and decline to offer any actual information. The business about Robotech's version of the Shrewfield being transformable is based entirely on a single line of dialogue and rather substantial amounts of conjecture... the favorite being that the ventral gun mount looks vaguely like a backwards VF-1 head.

Me and my dumbass assumptions. I must really enjoy the taste of shoe leather.

You weren't the only one this time... I made the initial assumption that Admiral DMC McKeever and Kevin McKeever were one and the same... who knew Robotech could have two such outspoken suckups with the same name?

well it is...

Wrong Sylphide... Nice tho, FlamingGuantlet did a three-mode transforming FFR-31MR/D Super Sylph, and a FRX-00 Mave too.

Where is that from, the Palladium RPG?

That'd be from Yukikaze, actually... the Sylphide referred to above is the name Peter Walker and co. came up with for the Shrewfield non-transformable fighter from Southern Cross, which was referred to as the Specter in the old Palladium RPG.

[BeyondTheGrave]

No, really. The whole thing ends with a time loop. When your ending takes you back to the beginning, how do you write a further sequel?

SO its the butterfly effect?

[VF5SS]

Like pretty much everything in Southern Cross, the artbooks offer only a name and a picture, and decline to offer any actual information. The business about Robotech's version of the Shrewfield being transformable is based entirely on a single line of dialogue and rather substantial amounts of conjecture... the favorite being that the ventral gun mount looks vaguely like a backwards VF-1 head.

All of that fan conjecture comes from ol' Red Leg. He almost froths at the mouth to prove his stupid fan theories.

[Seto Kaiba]

All of that fan conjecture comes from ol' Red Leg. He almost froths at the mouth to prove his stupid fan theories.

Nah, I doubt Brooklyn Red Leg would be so arrogant as to claim overall responsibility for the various unsupportable assertions that the Shrewfield is a transformable fighter... some of the blame must be laid at the doorsteps of Rhade and the handful of other overly vocal sadists who actually enjoyed the Masters Saga. Like so many other debates of unclear or inconsistent elements of Robotech, the argument that the Shrewfield is transformable relies almost exclusively on taking what little evidence exists out of context and imagining connections where none exists.

Essentially, the resulting argument consists entirely of assertions which use other, questionable assertions as their basis, resulting in a chain of "logic" that would only appear sound to someone who believed the initial argument was true in the first place.

[Einherjar]

Just got a PM from 1st Border Red Devil...apparently, there IS wiggle room at the end of End of the Circle to continue the story, as Rick and Lisa prepare to take the SDF-4 to the Andromeda Galaxy...

Wait, so how big is the current Robotech universe anyway? Almost everything important seems to take place within our solar system and other vaguely described regions of the universe. But then there's the novels with Tirol, Optera and etc. Are there official maps to use for reference?

[Seto Kaiba]

Wait, so how big is the current Robotech universe anyway? Almost everything important seems to take place within our solar system and other vaguely described regions of the universe. But then there's the novels with Tirol, Optera and etc. Are there official maps to use for reference?

None that I'm aware of... when it comes to the Robotech universe, your mileage may vary in the most literal fashion imaginable. Exactly how big the universe is depends on a number of things, like how you interpret the various conflicting remarks about the location of Optera and Tirol in the TV series, and whether or not you consider the "expanded universe" stuff accurate or not. Whether many of these exotic locales are even in our galaxy or not is unclear at best. The one thing that has remained generally consistent through all the various depictions is that the world occupied by the Invid prior to their invasion of Earth was in another galaxy. Tirol and the other Sentinels worlds are placed alternately in the Milky Way and in another unspecified galaxy, and can vary between episodes and depictions. Generally, the only thing which is established when it comes to alien worlds is that they're very far away from Earth... which is not particularly helpful.

[Einherjar]

And humanity never attempted to colonize other planets outside our solar system because of the Sentinel's campaign (in both the novel and mysterious Tommy Yune version)?

Edited January 19, 2010 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

And humanity never attempted to colonize other planets outside our solar system because of the Sentinel's campaign (in both the novel and mysterious Tommy Yune version)?

I can't speak for the content of the novels on that particular note as it's been a dog's age since I bothered to read any of them, but in the planned Robotech II: the Sentinels series and the current "Yune-ified" Robotech continuity, the United Earth Gov't (or whatever was left of it after the Zentradi were done with it) did have a space colonization program which was at least tangentially related to the Expeditionary Force's Pioneer mission. Whether the colony program actually had any measure of success remains unknown, something which is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. Thus far, nobody's mentioned any colonies outside our solar system, and it's doubtful the SDF-3 established any colonies while they were busy being shot at on virtually every planet they visited (at least in the comics). Given that in Prelude they REF has converted a bunch of old colony ships into weapons of mass destruction (the neutron-s missiles, to be precise), I'd guess their colonization program was either suspended or didn't pan out after yet another apocalyptic war rolled in to thin the population out. The new generation of colony ships, the Ark Angel-class, seem to have had even worse luck, as Vince Grant absconded with the only spaceworthy one (the Ark Angel) and her half-complete sister ships were destroyed in drydock when Captain Grant destroyed Space Station Liberty with a neutron-s missile.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[VFTF1]

And (strangely) "Yang" Neumann in Macross Plus. Going from playing a 7-foot-tall, hard-drinking ladies man to a scrawny, 18-year-old, bespectacled geek...is that career progress...?

Roy was 7 feet tall?

That would make Claudia like 6 ft 5... Misa would be almost 7 feet tall...Hikaru, who I thought was like 5 foot something would be 6 something...

and most importantly of all...

If Roy is 7 feet tall - there's NO WAY the SDF-1 could be 1200 meters!!

Pete

[Gubaba]

Roy was 7 feet tall?

That would make Claudia like 6 ft 5... Misa would be almost 7 feet tall...Hikaru, who I thought was like 5 foot something would be 6 something...

I know I've seen a height chart showing all the (human) characters standing together, but I can't seem to find it right now. Anyway, Focker was a little bit taller than a Womp Rat.

and most importantly of all...

If Roy is 7 feet tall - there's NO WAY the SDF-1 could be 1200 meters!!

Pete

Curses! I am foiled again by your irrefutable logic!

[VFTF1]

The only way Roy can be 7 feet tall is if you count his hair-do into the measurement. I can believe him being 6 ft. 4 - and then the hair makes up for the other 8 inches.

Pete

[taksraven]

well it is...

God-DAMMIT!!! That should be in the ugliest mecha thread. In fact.......

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

The only way Roy can be 7 feet tall is if you count his hair-do into the measurement. I can believe him being 6 ft. 4 - and then the hair makes up for the other 8 inches.

Pete

Ah, here we are:

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Roy_Focker

216cm, or 7.08 feet.

So how big does that make the SDF-1?

[taksraven]

Ah, here we are:

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Roy_Focker

216m, or 708 feet.

So how big does that make the SDF-1?

Yeah, how big!!!

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

Ah, here we are:

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Roy_Focker

216cm, or 7.08 feet.

So how big does that make the SDF-1?

But the link you post says:

(190 cm approximately in Macross Zero)

I think it's fair to say that the additional 36 cm are from his hair. It's way bigger by the time of Space War 1 than it was in Macross Zero.

I'm 196cm tall - so Roy is shorter than me.

That makes me feel really big!

....

As for the SDF-1 - given the parameters you cite, and the visual data available in the anime itself, the SDF-1 would clearly have to be no shorter than 1200 meters but no longer than X>1200 meters with a circumfrance roughly equal to the diagonal slope of its' super dimmensional axis factored for wind sheer at max/min PSI of 320/023 Pie.

Now if you also want to add variables such as mass displacement of molecular particles in sub-space stratospheric range ambulation, then that'll complicate things a bit - but only so much.

Given the above I'd say you were right about the original length of the SDF-1, with a margin of error no great than the lesser sum of the two parts of the half of the whole of the three halves of the initial two parts of the four quarters of the first tenth of the third fifth of the second tenth of 1.

Pete

[taksraven]

As for the SDF-1 - given the parameters you cite, and the visual data available in the anime itself, the SDF-1 would clearly have to be no shorter than 1200 meters but no longer than X>1200 meters with a circumfrance roughly equal to the diagonal slope of its' super dimmensional axis factored for wind sheer at max/min PSI of 320/023 Pie.

Pete

Yeah, but dude! You forgot to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow..........

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

Double post - but - one more thing...

According to the Macross Compedium - Roy also weighs 118 kilo!

Guys - I'm 196cm and I weigh 102 kilos when I don't work out for a week and eat too much! Usually, if I stick to my work out routine, I weigh in at 97-100 kilos out of which very very little of that is stomach and most of it is muscle tone, bone and just...well..ME. Now, granted, I still have a long ways to go to reach Agent 1 muscle tone status - but I would say I've developed a healthy Peter Parker/Spiderman muscle tone and certainly don't have a pot belly any more.

SO...

this would mean that if Roy weighs 118 Kilo with a height of 190cm .... then he is...Kakizake!

Seriously.

With a height of 216cm - it would be a bit more plausible to weigh in at 118 kilo ... but really -Roy would have to be built like Dolph Lungrin in He man and the Masters of the Universe or Rocky 4.

I mean - that's the kind of Roy we're talking about with these stats.

But that's NOT the Roy we see in that picture.

I mean - look at his legs - clearly he doesn't hit the weight room and work on his upper legs at all. He's got long, slender legs. I'll grant that it looks like he at least has a good upper body frame - but it's not bulging.

So where's that 118 kilo coming from?

Sorry - but the stats don't match the physical image or themselves for that matter.

216cm and 118 kilos is Kakizake.

Pete

will now look to see what Kakizake's official stats are..because...if Roy is 216cm/118kilos then Kakizake would have to be like 3 meters tall and weight 200 kilos...which is absurd

[VFTF1]

I'm back - only this time - with Kakizake:

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Hayao_Kakizaki

207cm and 140 kilo! Ridiculous! He wouldn't be able to walk at 140 kilos. That's like Jabba the Hut proportions. Kakizake should weigh in at Roy's 118 ...max. 130...but 140...?? that's huge.

I mean... seriously ...

I don't know about these stats...they don't compute!

Pete

[VFTF1]

More critical attention given to the stats Gubaba cited:

Let's look at the ladies.

First - Roy's girl - Claudia. 182cm ... but the stats can't decide whether she weighs 48 kilos or 59...

Guys...

that's a BIG difference!

My girlfriend is 165cm (the stats say Misa is 168 - so my Misa is the height of the real Misa...of course!) ...

But the stats say Misa weighs 45 kilos! That would make her anorexic! That's ridiculous. At 19 she could weigh in at minimum 49 kilos. My girlfriend weighs in at 54 kilos. My Misa is 41 and exercises regularly and has a great figure. If she needed to loose weight, it would be like 1 or 2 kilos to look "fitter."

If my girlfriend weighed 45 kilos at 168/165cm - she would be a skeleton frame. Seriously.

Now - this is why Claudia's official weight of 48/59 is...bizarre...because that's a pretty big margin. But first things first...Claudia is 20cm taller than Misa? I never could tell. Misa's pretty short at 168cm - in high heels she looks taller - but then..Claudia wears heals too.

In any event Roy at 207cm weighing 118 kilo with Claudia at 183 weighing 48...

umm...

That would be like putting a long twig next to a huge rock. I just never got the sense from what the anime showed us that their porportions were so exagerated. Again - Roy at 190 cm? Believable. He's clearly taller than Claudia - but 30 cm taller? No.

And Misa weighing 45 kilo is just absurd at her height. She's not annorexic. She fills her tight flight suite with some very lovely curves - those curves would NOT exist if she weighed in at 45 kilos at 168cm.

My DOG weighs 28 kilos for Protoculture's Sake And most of that is Beagle Muscle - but seriously....Misa cannot weigh 45 kilo at 168cm and look like she does.

Pete

Edited January 19, 2010 by VFTF1

[Gubaba]

I'm back - only this time - with Kakizake:

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Hayao_Kakizaki

207cm and 140 kilo! Ridiculous! He wouldn't be able to walk at 140 kilos. That's like Jabba the Hut proportions. Kakizake should weigh in at Roy's 118 ...max. 130...but 140...?? that's huge.

I mean... seriously ...

I don't know about these stats...they don't compute!

Pete

Maybe they're, um...space kilograms...

[VFTF1]

Well - I'm not gonna knock the stats because they do confirm that I have been happily dating Misa Hayase for almost 6 years now!

Misa Hayase:

Born: March

Height: 168

Weight: 45 (but that's clearly a retarded number)

Hair: Auburn, shoulder length

My girlfriend:

Born: March

Height: 165

Weight: 54 (at 54 kilo she looks like Misa in the flight suit)

Hair: Auburn, shoulder length

I love how even the month of birth matches... I think my girlfriend was born on the 13th...but I can never remember her exact birthday...for which I am eternally damned year after year...

Pete

Edited January 19, 2010 by VFTF1