HG and Robotech Debates

[taksraven]

Some franchises have come back from similar train-wreck positions to the one that RT is currently in, (like the Star Trek franchise after the release of Nemesis, most were considering it to be the death of Trek) but I just don't see it happening here.

Taksraven

[Duke Togo]

Some franchises have come back from similar train-wreck positions to the one that RT is currently in, (like the Star Trek franchise after the release of Nemesis, most were considering it to be the death of Trek) but I just don't see it happening here.

Taksraven

RT doesn't have anywhere near the fandom or money behind it Trek had.

(for the record, not a Trek fan)

[terry the lone wolf]

I believe the RT movie could be successful. Maybe because of the nostalgia of the old series and people's ignorance of the Macross litigation. When most fans remember RT it's always the Macross saga. If the LAM's script can successfully adapt the Macross story then that's all you need. Most of the mecha designs will be changed anyways. I personally wouldn't mind a superficial adaption that touches on the Macross story and not a direct adaption. I think it might be hard to make a 50ft Human look threatining so I'm hoping for a truly alien looking villain. Even DYRL revamped the Zentradi to look alienish.

Edited April 15, 2010 by terry the lone wolf

[Wanzerfan]

Yeah, I'm kinda curious, too. The old comics of the 90s were decent to all the way craptastic. Some were so abstract that they were an abstract adaptation of an abstract storyline. But, in all fairness, at least they were more independent and kept the franchise on life support during the time. What's strange is that even with all the hype that has come and gone in 5 years, it's still in that same position as back then. Go figure.

The mainstream Sentinels comics were okay. It's the Malcontent Uprisings where the franchise really shined, due to the excellent work of both Spangler and Ling (Ling's on par with Ron Lim artwise), too bad Ling didn't make the final few issues. On the subject, issue #7 is the best Robotech story ever (seeing a micronized Breetai putting the sole of his boot in the face of a prick Army of the Southern Cross grunt put a smile on my face). The Waltrips can't draw their way out of a wet paper bag.

Lemme guess... "ninja Miriya" killed it for you?

Less than worthless, in practical terms, since the reissues continue to deplete their resale value and there really isn't any actual merit to the story. It's just another attempt to shake the Macross Saga down for a few more bucks.

Almost certainly... whatever anon did that definitely has way too much time on his (or her) hands.

No, Seeing Johnathan Wolff on the SDF-1 is what killed it for me; I agreed with the sentiment when The Devil's Hand stated it that Wolff was not a part of the original SDF-1 mission. Edited April 15, 2010 by Wanzerfan

[Gubaba]

The mainstream Sentinels comics were okay. It's the Malcontent Uprisings where the franchise really shined, due to the excellent work of both Spangler and Ling (Ling's on par with Ron Lim artwise), too bad Ling didn't make the final few issues. On the subject, issue #7 is the best Robotech story ever (seeing a micronized Breetai putting the sole of his boot in the face of a prick Army of the Southern Cross grunt put a smile on my face). The Waltrips can't draw their way out of a wet paper bag.

I'll take your word for it...I recently looked at Malcontent Uprisings #1...and it seemed pretty low-quality all around.

No, Seeing Johnathan Wolff on the SDF-1 is what killed it for me; I agreed with the sentiment when The Devil's Hand stated it that Wolff was not a part of the original SDF-1 mission.

But, but...the whole idea of putting a Mospeada character in a Macross story is silly no matter WHERE he ends up.

[UN_MARINE]

Anyone wanna place bets on the numbers of Prelude when it hits the market?

Sure. The numbers will be... "Gangbusters"

Possible alternatives could include 2, 3, 900, 3000, (can't possibly be)1210, and 25. (or any other number relevant to the franchise)

[Einherjar]

Hahaha, I heard that!!! My old Sentinels comics are worth more than those, although, the very first comic that came out I have signed by Tony Oliver, Dan Warren. It's the only one of all those comics I really kept and appreciate. Speaking of comics, I have an issue of the promo comic that was the prelude to the Nintendo game that never made it, Crystal Dreams I think it is. Is that worth anything? I know it's rare, just have no clue about the worth of it. I also have the very first issue of Protoculture Addicts, which is all black and white. Is that worth anything? I need to make more space, so I maybe looking to part with this stuff very soon.

I haven't checked recently because I got rid of most of the Robotech material I had at home with my auction. I do remember A LOT of comics and toys in various condition being sold at the time. Crystal Dreams was also there somewhere. I was discouraged at first, because for most of the active and completed auctions no one was bidding or bidding very little for them. It motivated me to to pander to anyone enthusiastic about Robotech with my auction's description, but only 2 people wanted it at the end. I said more positive things about Robotech and Tommy Yune there than I ever did before.

So, expect very low prices even with signatures.

[Seto Kaiba]

No, Seeing Johnathan Wolff on the SDF-1 is what killed it for me; I agreed with the sentiment when The Devil's Hand stated it that Wolff was not a part of the original SDF-1 mission.

Y'know what... I'm sorry I asked.

Maybe I'm too sane to understand, or my rational thinking and sense of perspective is getting in the way, but I just can't imagine why anyone would give a damn about a one-dimensional, one-episode character like Jonathan Wolfe. That there are people who not only care about such an insignificant character, but also about his whereabouts during a show that he isn't part of and has no business being in scares the piss out of me. Interacting with these strange creatures is a lot like what I imagine going on holiday to Bizarro World would be like... the locals are speaking a strange language that is both recognizable and subtly wrong, and they all have completely alien concepts of what constitutes "fun" and "entertainment".

Sure. The numbers will be... "Gangbusters"

Possible alternatives could include 2, 3, 900, 3000, (can't possibly be)1210, and 25. (or any other number relevant to the franchise)

Or they'll just say that it "sold out", and duck the question of how many copies were in their EXTREMELY limited print run.

[chrisk]

Or they'll just say that it "sold out", and duck the question of how many copies were in their EXTREMELY limited print run.

Okay. I'll record it here for posterity...

Yunetech comics will sell:

Seto Kaiba = "gangbusters"

UN_MARINE = "gangbusters"

Alright! Diamond should have those numbers up a month after they're released. Can't wait.

Some franchises have come back from similar train-wreck positions to the one that RT is currently in, (like the Star Trek franchise after the release of Nemesis, most were considering it to be the death of Trek) but I just don't see it happening here.

That's the thing. When Nemesis failed in the box office, studios and a number of fans knew the franchise was dead in the water. But for some reason, Robotech does not suffer this. Robotech fans refuse to believe the franchise has had a "downtime" since 2000. Don't believe me? Watch this fanboy:

This guy talks about Robotech: Shadow Chronicles like it was released yesterday. And he talks about how the sequel "Shadow Rising" has a set release date. He talks about the upcoming live action movie, and proudly proclaims how Lawrence Kasdan is still involved. Lawrence Kasdan?!?

*Sigh*

[azrael]

This guy talks about Robotech: Shadow Chronicles like it was released yesterday. And he talks about how the sequel "Shadow Rising" has a set release date. He talks about the upcoming live action movie, and proudly proclaims how Lawrence Kasdan is still involved. Lawrence Kasdan?!?

Still involved? Define "still involved"...The man did his work, got paid, and walked away. WB will call if they decide to greenlight with his work.

[Einherjar]

That's the thing. When Nemesis failed in the box office, studios and a number of fans knew the franchise was dead in the water. But for some reason, Robotech does not suffer this. Robotech fans refuse to believe the franchise has had a "downtime" since 2000. Don't believe me? Watch this fanboy:

This guy talks about Robotech: Shadow Chronicles like it was released yesterday. And he talks about how the sequel "Shadow Rising" has a set release date. He talks about the upcoming live action movie, and proudly proclaims how Lawrence Kasdan is still involved. Lawrence Kasdan?!?

*Sigh*

I watched this sometime either last year or in 2008 when the standard version of this video was around. The information is not accurate anymore, but the videos were very informative about the milking HG went through with multiple versions of the Robotech VHSs and DVDs. Did he actually do a review of Shadow Chronicles?

[Wanzerfan]

Y'know what... I'm sorry I asked.

Maybe I'm too sane to understand, or my rational thinking and sense of perspective is getting in the way, but I just can't imagine why anyone would give a damn about a one-dimensional, one-episode character like Jonathan Wolfe. That there are people who not only care about such an insignificant character, but also about his whereabouts during a show that he isn't part of and has no business being in scares the piss out of me. Interacting with these strange creatures is a lot like what I imagine going on holiday to Bizarro World would be like... the locals are speaking a strange language that is both recognizable and subtly wrong, and they all have completely alien concepts of what constitutes "fun" and "entertainment".

Or they'll just say that it "sold out", and duck the question of how many copies were in their EXTREMELY limited print run.

Wolff actually shined in Malcontent Uprisings.

[taksraven]

No, Seeing Johnathan Wolff on the SDF-1 is what killed it for me; I agreed with the sentiment when The Devil's Hand stated it that Wolff was not a part of the original SDF-1 mission.

Man, you must have cried when Boba Fett turned up in the Special Edition of A New Hope....

Taksraven

[Wanzerfan]

Man, you must have cried when Boba Fett turned up in the Special Edition of A New Hope....

Taksraven

Nah, bacause the changes were made by Lucas himself; that scene was supposed to be in the film but had to be cut due to filming constraints (that and a horribly low budget). Not so you notice, but filming in Tunisia was a real bitch. And besides, Boba Fett is the most dagerous bounty hunter out there, being a clone of a Mandalorian. I wonder if the Fett clan and the Ordo clan got along?

[Duke Togo]

I believe the RT movie could be successful. Maybe because of the nostalgia of the old series and people's ignorance of the Macross litigation.

Robotech was never as popular or widely seen as The Transformers or GI Joe. To think that some sort of 80's cartoon nostalgia would draw large crowds is rather silly.

[areaseven]

I believe the RT movie could be successful at failing at the box office.

Fixed.

[azrael]

As I've said, even bullcrap can make money if marketed correctly. Nostalgia will only bring so many people. Beyond that, you'll have to market something else besides nostalgia.

[Robelwell202]

As I've said, even bullcrap can make money if marketed correctly. Nostalgia will only bring so many people. Beyond that, you'll have to market something else besides nostalgia.

Okay... here's what I see.

Situation A: Nostalgia Marketing.

Tose few nostalgic people, eager to relive their youth, go to see the flick, and find it to be something completely alien in nature. The few level-headed, thinking people amongst them say "Wait a damn minute!" and scratch their heads.

Situation B: New-Market Marketing

The prospective new fans that HG wants to bring in see the movie, and get awful confused by transforming fighter planes. "Didn't Bayformers already do that???" they say, and walk out, thinking HG's got a big 'L' tattooed on their collective forehead.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Robelwell202

[Gubaba]

Nah, bacause the changes were made by Lucas himself;

Dude...if you only approve changes made by the original creators, you should hate ALL of Robotech.

Just sayin'.

[Seto Kaiba]

This guy talks about Robotech: Shadow Chronicles like it was released yesterday. And he talks about how the sequel "Shadow Rising" has a set release date. He talks about the upcoming live action movie, and proudly proclaims how Lawrence Kasdan is still involved. Lawrence Kasdan?!?

Okay... so, another vocal Robotech fan is living down to our expectations for his kind by displaying the same kind of fiery wit and razor-sharp intellect more commonly encountered in fungi, pencil erasers, and particle board furniture?

Business as usual.

Honestly... I can't believe that the Robotech fanbase attracts that many idiots by coincidence. Maybe Carl and the guys started cloning gullible fanboys in a lab under Harmony Gold HQ to keep themselves in a job.

Wolff actually shined in Malcontent Uprisings.

Y'know Wanz, your energetic defense of Jonathan Wolfe and his role in the Malcontent Uprisings comics starts to ring a bit false after you notice that you've yet to spell the man's name properly. It's "Wolfe", not "Wolff".

Dude...if you only approve changes made by the original creators, you should hate ALL of Robotech.

Indeed... when you think about it, that's a bit of a mindf*** right there from Wanzerfan's PoV.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Einherjar]

Nah, bacause the changes were made by Lucas himself; that scene was supposed to be in the film but had to be cut due to filming constraints (that and a horribly low budget). Not so you notice, but filming in Tunisia was a real bitch. And besides, Boba Fett is the most dagerous bounty hunter out there, being a clone of a Mandalorian. I wonder if the Fett clan and the Ordo clan got along?

The new Jabba the Hutt scene in A New Hope, yes. The cameo by Fett in the same scene, no, that was retroactive fan service.

The Robotech comics and novels are the same deal; retroactive fan service to patch the story together due to natural consistencies in the source material until HG had second thoughts for a huge chunk of them.

[HappyPenguins]

Well it turns out I'm too good to be talked about on the spanish podcast lol

"HP? no no hablamos de eso, además sería un honor para ella la mera mencion."

"HP? No No we don't talk about that, and to add, it would be an honor for her to merely mention her"

So it would be an honor for me to mention me? Heck yeah it would

but geeze these people act like I murdered their families with the way they talk about me lol

How could it be that I've earned such a rep?

Same with this site, they act like we're a bunch of villains who do nothing but bash robotech.

I'm confused, what is so wrong with having a different opinion?

[Gubaba]

Well it turns out I'm too good to be talked about on the spanish podcast lol

"HP? No No we don't talk about that, and to add, it would be an honor for her to merely mention her"

So it would be an honor for me to mention me? Heck yeah it would

but geeze these people act like I murdered their families with the way they talk about me lol

How could it be that I've earned such a rep?

Same with this site, they act like we're a bunch of villains who do nothing but bash robotech.

I'm confused, what is so wrong with having a different opinion?

So...another bunch of people who never go beyond this single thread, huh? I'm not surprised.

[Einherjar]

Same with this site, they act like we're a bunch of villains who do nothing but bash robotech.

I'm confused, what is so wrong with having a different opinion?

I assume they think they're special because what they do is "for the cause." MEMO called it fandom politics to me once, and it sure does sound like ridiculous politics sometimes.

One thing though, isn't what they're doing one of the many lessons the Robotech storyline taught viewers to avoid or frown at? Someone help me out here.

[Gubaba]

I assume they think they're special because what they do is "for the cause." MEMO called it fandom politics to me once, and it sure does sound like ridiculous politics sometimes.

One thing though, isn't what they're doing one of the many lessons the Robotech storyline taught viewers to avoid or frown at? Someone help me out here.

Maybe they all side with Leonard...?

[HappyPenguins]

I assume they think they're special because what they do is "for the cause." MEMO called it fandom politics to me once, and it sure does sound like ridiculous politics sometimes.

One thing though, isn't what they're doing one of the many lessons the Robotech storyline taught viewers to avoid or frown at? Someone help me out here.

yeah call it what you will, but the bottom line is its just stupid. Robotech fans come here to view this thread and see all the "awful" things we're saying about Robotech and think OMFG ROBOTECH HATERS EVIL MACROSS PURISTS WHO WANT TO SEE ROBOTECH DIE! lol well yes some of us do want to see Robotech die, me only because I hate The Shadow Saga, thats what needs to die.

What I'd like to know is why do they care soooo much about negative opinions towards RT? given most of what we say is nothing but the truth, even in regards to HG and their handling of the franchise. We're just stating our opinions, talking about the facts, we're not going to their houses and punching them in the face for being Robotech fanatics are we? We're not going to Robotech.com or RTX just to see the negative things some of the fans are saying about macross right?

but it's this current BS that sheds some light on one of the reasons certain robotech fans leave the fandom. It's because of crap like this, all the bashing and name calling what-have-you. In all honesty is there a point to it? No there is not, and like I've said numerous times I honestly don't give a damn about what they say about me. They hate me? Good don't care, They think I'm mean evil, a horrible person? Fine, let them think that. Same goes for everyone here they have "negative" views towards.

I'm sorry to say but Robotech fans are just pathetic at this point, there are very few who act and behave in a civil manner, but still those few are outnumbered. It is something I don't think I'll ever understand really, and making a big deal over stupid things such as my hitman joke is even more absurd... it's a joke bendo get over it, I can't even afford one, nor would I because that's honestly not the kind of person I am. So there goes the HP is evil and cruel story right out the window. The worst I could do is make someone cry over the internet, or has that already happened? <shakes head>

Another thing and I am also sorry for saying this, but these robotech fanatics needs to get off their computers and.. get away from RT for a while. There is a life outside of robotech okay? You can obsess, fine but dont make it your life geeze...

okay I've said all I feel like, and I know "these" people are going to take it the wrong way, they always do <shrug>

but yeah I'm done

Edited April 23, 2010 by HappyPenguins

[Jasonc]

yeah call it what you will, but the bottom line is its just stupid. Robotech fans come here to view this thread and see all the "awful" things we're saying about Robotech and think OMFG ROBOTECH HATERS EVIL MACROSS PURISTS WHO WANT TO SEE ROBOTECH DIE! lol well yes some of us do want to see Robotech die, me only because I hate what it's become... but thats another topic for another day.

What I'd like to know is why do they care soooo much about negative opinions towards RT? given most of what we say is nothing but the truth, even in regards to HG and their handling of the franchise. We're just stating our opinions, talking about the facts, we're not going to their houses and punching them in the face for being Robotech fanatics are we? We're not going to Robotech.com or RTX just to see the negative things some of the fans are saying about macross right?

but it's this current BS that sheds some light on one of the reasons certain robotech fans leave the fandom. It's because of crap like this, all the bashing and name calling what-have-you. In all honesty is there a point to it? No there is not, and like I've said numerous times I honestly don't give a damn about what they say about me. They hate me? Good don't care, They think I'm mean evil, a horrible person? Fine, let them think that. Same goes for everyone here they have "negative" views towards.

I'm sorry to say but Robotech fans are just pathetic at this point, there are very few who act and behave in a civil manner, but still those few are outnumbered. It is something I don't think I'll ever understand really, and making a big deal over stupid things such as my hitman joke is even more absurd... it's a joke bendo get over it, I can't even afford one, nor would I because that's honestly not the kind of person I am. So there goes the HP is evil and cruel story right out the window. The worst I could do is make someone cry over the internet, or has that already happened? <shakes head>

Another thing and I am also sorry for saying this, but these robotech fanatics needs to get off their computers and.. get away from RT for a while. There is a life outside of robotech okay? You can obsess, fine but dont make it your life geeze...

okay I've said all I feel like, and I know "these" people are going to take it the wrong way, they always do <shrug>

but yeah I'm done

You know, for the most part, you are correct. But I wouldn't say all Robotech fans are pathetic. Actually, most I know are good, decent guys, that don't isolate other fans because they have different opinions. We talk about a few fanatical crazy RT fans, and they think we are trying to trash talk all of them. Not true. What they need to realize is that it's just a couple of them, the more vocal ones that think they know what they're talking about, that we talk about. I'm sure, HP, that you've heard that they think you're not a fan of Robotech as well, otherwise, you wouldn't be doing the trash talking. That's what a couple think of me, but really, they'll say that in defense of the truths that are told here. To some, the "you're just saying that cause you wanna kill Robotech" defense helps them to invalidate whatever is said, and write off everything here. It's why I don't delve too deeply in the politics as heavily. What good is trying to convince crazy fanboys locked in their mom's basement of what is real? To be honest, those guys are the best comedy, as most of what they say is so far out there, you'd think they were trying to create a new soap opera.

But yeah, HP, you are the devil in carnate, and you're not a real fan of Robotech, cause you want to kill it. The insanity!!!

[HappyPenguins]

You know, for the most part, you are correct. But I wouldn't say all Robotech fans are pathetic. Actually, most I know are good, decent guys, that don't isolate other fans because they have different opinions. We talk about a few fanatical crazy RT fans, and they think we are trying to trash talk all of them. Not true. What they need to realize is that it's just a couple of them, the more vocal ones that think they know what they're talking about, that we talk about. I'm sure, HP, that you've heard that they think you're not a fan of Robotech as well, otherwise, you wouldn't be doing the trash talking. That's what a couple think of me, but really, they'll say that in defense of the truths that are told here. To some, the "you're just saying that cause you wanna kill Robotech" defense helps them to invalidate whatever is said, and write off everything here. It's why I don't delve too deeply in the politics as heavily. What good is trying to convince crazy fanboys locked in their mom's basement of what is real? To be honest, those guys are the best comedy, as most of what they say is so far out there, you'd think they were trying to create a new soap opera.

But yeah, HP, you are the devil in carnate, and you're not a real fan of Robotech, cause you want to kill it. The insanity!!!

oh man if I got a dollar for every time someone said I wasn't a robotech fan, I'd probably have enough to fund the production of Shadow Rising

but jokes aside, I know not all robotech fans are bad or annoying, but the lot I see on Rt.com behave like sheep... and it's utterly disturbing to me, and they act like Memo is the shepherd or something cause whenever he posts about anything most of them are like "omg yay thats great news yadda yadda" And those who don't praise that info are labeled naysayers and threatened with bans. I know the lot of them are nice, yes but the sheep mentality is what puts me off. Why do they act like that? Is everything memo says great news, I mean really? another thing is you don't DARE say anything negative about Tommy's work or you are SHUNNED.

Is he really that great of an artist? I beg to differ of course but there again I'm not a real robotech fan because of that. I also hate the shadow chronicles, and that also makes me a robotech hater because you know TSC makes up most of RT now as its plastered all over Rt.com and even parts of RTX. and yes I have also been labeled a macross purist and you know why? Because I think Robotech bashing is funny and I'm a member here. Yeah being a member of this site = macross purist now lol

even if you've never seen any macross in Zen aka JT's case.

I don't know once again I don't understand why the RT fandom is so screwed up, but apparently its what HG wanted, and it also must be what the fanatics wanted too because they seem to be happy with the current state of the fandom.

[Wanzerfan]

Y'know Wanz, your energetic defense of Jonathan Wolfe and his role in the Malcontent Uprisings comics starts to ring a bit false after you notice that you've yet to spell the man's name properly. It's "Wolfe", not "Wolff".

I'm just spelling the name the was it was in the Eternity comics and the novels, which is how I'm used to seeing it spelled.

[Funkenstein]

Thats not how you spell his name, its spelled Doug Bendo.

[Einherjar]

I don't know once again I don't understand why the RT fandom is so screwed up, but apparently its what HG wanted, and it also must be what the fanatics wanted too because they seem to be happy with the current state of the fandom.

The foundations for this franchise were not very good in the first place, considering the dirty little secrets it has. How anyone still trusts these people is beyond me, especially when a lot of them are older than me. How HG manages material should have been a clear sign of all of this.

[terry the lone wolf]

Robotech was never as popular or widely seen as The Transformers or GI Joe. To think that some sort of 80's cartoon nostalgia would draw large crowds is rather silly.

First of all I grew up in the Baltimore area and RT was shown in D.C. & Balti. at the same time. So I'm sure N.Y., L.A., and other large cities broadcasted Robotech. So this revisionist history of comparing RT to Thunderbirds 2080 or those Gaiking/Grendizer cartoons (both incidently were shown on Cable) is ridiculous. Even if some markets didn't broadcast the cartoon they still had the RPGs and novels.

I also wonder why there are so many RT fan projects out there if hardly anybody watched the shows?

[terry the lone wolf]

Not Fixed.

If you are going to quote me please do so correctly....

[Gubaba]

I also wonder why there are so many RT fan projects out there if hardly anybody watched the shows?

Yeah...I know of about six! Maybe even SEVEN!! Amazing!!!

[Einherjar]

Maybe they all side with Leonard...?

Wouldn't that make Lynn Kyle right about everything in Robotech?

He was still a jerkass, but the message he was spreading about the military was still important. Unfortunately, with the way Robotech was created, the story may had inadvertently made everything he was preaching true, especially during and after the Master's Saga. Anatole Leonard, T. R. Edwards, Jonathan Wolfe (the fall from grace), and even Rick Hunter in later years are all examples, taking extremes with the power they were given and corruption.

And there's art imitating life, as certain people, and HG, have taken a TV show to extremes. So I'm thinking, for something described as deep, thought provoking, and mature by people, no one actually learned anything from the Robotech storyline. They got distracted by the pew-pew-pew-pew-pew-pew & Rick Hunter.