HG and Robotech Debates

[taksraven]

If HG was serious about the RT franchise they would have ploughed Shadow Chronicles profits back into making more RT? That would have made sense.

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

Yeah, like anything about the Robotech situation makes sense anymore, especially people openly accepting the constant silence treatment from HG. Toy and comic reprints and the same talk in convention panels do not count as progress. All of this used to have a story, remember? Despite its origins, it used to mean something.

3+ years since Shadow Chronicles ended on a cliffhanger just like The Sentinels, people.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

Yeah, like anything about the Robotech situation makes sense anymore, especially people openly accepting the constant silence treatment from HG. Toy and comic reprints and the same talk in convention panels do not count as progress. All of this used to have a story, remember? Despite its origins, it used to mean something.

Let's be frank... it used to mean something to the fans. Examining the way in which Harmony Gold managed the franchise over the years, you have to wonder if it ever meant anything more than a quick buck to Carl Macek and Frank Agrama.

3+ years since Shadow Chronicles ended on a cliffhanger just like The Sentinels, people.

And y'know what... I got threatened with a ban on Robotech.com not once but twice for saying exactly that... once for just saying it flat-out, and once for jokingly calling the movie Robotech III: the Sentinels II (Detroit 0), and several other names including "Tommy Yune's Day Off" and "Robotech III: the Search for More Money". For both, Maverick accused me of posting personal attacks against Harmony Gold staffers and threatened to ban me...

Edited March 29, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Gubaba]

And y'know what... I got threatened with a ban on Robotech.com not once but twice for saying exactly that... once for just saying it flat-out, and once for jokingly calling the movie Robotech III: the Sentinels II (Detroit 0), and several other names including "Tommy Yune's Day Off" and "Robotech III: the Search for More Money". For both, Maverick accused me of posting personal attacks against Harmony Gold staffers and threatened to ban me...

Yes, we know. You've told this story many times before.

[HappyPenguins]

Robotech TSC was more than a joke

its full of very hilarious errors

http://thelostuniverseofrt.forumotion.net/...s-t385.htm#2502

Nothing was shooped, it's all legit!

and now I have the sudden urge to play pac-man

[Wanzerfan]

Let's be frank... it used to mean something to the fans. Examining the way in which Harmony Gold managed the franchise over the years, you have to wonder if it ever meant anything more than a quick buck to Carl Macek and Frank Agrama.

And y'know what... I got threatened with a ban on Robotech.com not once but twice for saying exactly that... once for just saying it flat-out, and once for jokingly calling the movie Robotech III: the Sentinels II (Detroit 0), and several other names including "Tommy Yune's Day Off" and "Robotech III: the Search for More Money". For both, Maverick accused me of posting personal attacks against Harmony Gold staffers and threatened to ban me...

That f*cker has absolutely no sense of humor. I take it back, Steve has an even less sense of humor. I once compared him with "Heartbreak Ridge"'s Major Powers in a joke. He didn't find very amusing; I recieved an e-mail telling me that I wasn't welcome anymore.

The SSgt. Chuzu's line I alluded to in the movie for the joke was "...his farthole's soaked so tight, he shits out of his mouth."

That little joke paved the way to a permaban; what finally did it for me was my opinion of what they did to the non-cannonized storylines-I flat out said they threw them into the trash. I'm suspicious that it was Maverick that finally dropped the permaban hammer on me.

[Gubaba]

http://www.robotechx.com/forums/31-general...ne-too-far.html

1. Read link.

2. Commence rage.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Gubaba

[azrael]

Meh. Blame the ISP if you must. ISPs take a all-or-nothing approach to copyright infringement. They remove it all or remove none.

As for the no-fanart thingy, why should anyone be surprised anymore? Really....

[Gubaba]

As for the no-fanart thingy, why should anyone be surprised anymore? Really....

And again, HG claiming infringement because of Robotech AND MACROSS trademarks opens up a whole world of fanartists for them to go after...

[Einherjar]

http://www.robotechx.com/forums/31-general...ne-too-far.html

1. Read link.

2. Commence rage.

Hmm, when Harmony Gold perceives that you have wronged them in any way legally, they will bury you. Since this is a very open ended statement and what is considered wronging them is up to their discretion, probably everyone is at risk.

The lesson from this; keep everything fan-related you value away from robotech.com & probably robotechx.com, dammit! That is, if there's still time.

[Bri]

A few recent posts about the relationship between HG and Tasunoko made me wonder about the following situation:

what happens in the case of a breakup between the two? HG owns the trademarks on Macross but needs the license from Tats to have access to the copyrighted material for the Robotech animation and merchandise. Tats on the other hand can't license it's SDF Macross and DYRL rights effectively to another party as HG sits on the trademarks in every major anime market outside Japan. Mexican stand off? Would anyone be able to shed a light on what would happen?

Edited March 29, 2010 by Bri

[Moly_Sigang]

http://www.robotechx.com/forums/31-general...ne-too-far.html

1. Read link.

2. Commence rage.

That's a whole new different level of f@*ked up sh$t right there. HG is basically sending a message to the fandom that they ( the fans) are no longer allowed to support robotech. This is proof people, HG is trying to kill this already in life-support franchise by alienating their fanbase.

what happens in the case of a breakup between the two? HG owns the trademarks on Macross but needs the license from Tats to have access to the copyrighted material for the Robotech animation and merchandise. Tats on the other hand can't license it's SDF Macross and DYRL rights effectively to another party as HG sits on the trademarks in every major anime market outside Japan. Mexican stand off? Would anyone be able to shed a light on what would happen?

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool/fi...domain/tm.htm#6

From my understanding, HG will quickly lose their trademark once they no longer have the Macross license, since they can no longer do anything with the trademark without Macross merchandises, and the law doesn't allow anyone to illegally squatting on a trademark.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Moly_Sigang

[SIGHUP]

So apparently this is nothing new right? Its been going on for decades. Very sad indeed, like I mentioned on RTX. Me wonders if we should beat them to the punch and pull the plug on RTX.

Its been clear for sometime now that its either the HG way or the highway!

[Duke Togo]

http://www.robotechx.com/forums/31-general...ne-too-far.html

1. Read link.

2. Commence rage.

Well, I am not sure why I would personally be raging over this, but I do wonder if HG is even within their rights to do that.

[Einherjar]

You know, there's still time during the 25th anniversary year of Robotech for HG to hint why they would do something like this. But of course, this has happened before with them involving other fan projects and franchises , and nothing came up to justify it (like a C&D because something Robotech was probably coming up in the near future to warrant it, but nothing actually happening).

Edited March 29, 2010 by Einherjar

[chrisk]

http://www.robotechx.com/forums/31-general...ne-too-far.html

1. Read link.

2. Commence rage.

Must be another boring day at the Harmony Gold law office...

In all seriousness, I hope Nenad doesn't take this crap lying down anymore.

[Seto Kaiba]

Yes, we know. You've told this story many times before.

And y'know what... after all this time it's still bloody ridiculous... funny too..

And again, HG claiming infringement because of Robotech AND MACROSS trademarks opens up a whole world of fanartists for them to go after...

I wonder who they're gonna go after next... HP's Atlantech? Robelwell202's "Destroid's Last Dance" fanfic? It seems like anyone who's running a Robotech project these days is now open to attack. I guess they're still targeting the UEG crowd because they actually managed to come close to putting something of marketable quality out there. Why can't they go after someone who deserves it, like Maverick, MEMO, or Doug Bendo?

So apparently this is nothing new right? Its been going on for decades. Very sad indeed, like I mentioned on RTX. Me wonders if we should beat them to the punch and pull the plug on RTX.

Its been clear for sometime now that its either the HG way or the highway!

Oh, I very much doubt that RobotechX is in any danger of being shut down by Harmony Gold. After all, it's MEMO's baby, and he's one of the very worst ass-kissing Tommy Yune fanboys and goose-stepping pro-Harmony Gold fascists. You've got nothing to fear... your site's an unofficial police box for the Harmony Gold division of ThinkPol.

Must be another boring day at the Harmony Gold law office...

In all seriousness, I hope Nenad doesn't take this crap lying down anymore.

Speaking of... strange rumors have recently started reaching my ears concerning Harmony Gold's legal counsel and the cease and desist notice they sent concerning UEG's Robotech Genesis project. If what people are telling me is true (I'm still trying to verify it for myself, so it may not be), MEMO1DOMINION and several others have been telling people that I was the prime mover responsible for Harmony Gold's sudden urge to shut down the Genesis project. In the account that reached my ears eyes, they've been telling people that, for reasons that could best be described as "cartoonish villainy", I used my connections to Harmony Gold's legal counsel and/or senior management to get them to shut UEG's Genesis project down.

Now, this is so patently absurd that I'm hoping to high heaven that it's not true. If it is, then that just says something horrible about the whole Robotech fanbase and the deepening state of denial it's in. They can't debate with us like civilized folks, so they have to resort to demonizing us by making us out to be saturday morning cartoon show villains who just want to make the heroes suffer for no reason. The part I really don't get is that after spending all this time and effort trying to discredit my statements about the Macross licensing situation, they've supposedly done a 180 and are now telling people I have secret connections to HG's legal staff that I use to crush those who oppose me. If I really had THAT much clout, or any connections to Harmony Gold's senior management and legal counsel, I probably would've convinced them to hire someone competent to run the franchise by now, or just done away with the franchise altogether and gotten us some stateside Macross licensing.

[VF5SS]

are you sure they aren't just trying to bury the fanproject guy who threatened their IP

[Maxtype]

Seto, that rumor would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.

[Seto Kaiba]

are you sure they aren't just trying to bury the fanproject guy who threatened their IP

You'd have to ask Nenad or one of the other UEG guys for the exact reason Harmony Gold sent them a Cease and Desist notice... but they've adopted a policy of silence when it comes to that particular issue.

Seto, that rumor would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.

I know, it'd be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that some Robotech fans probably believe that it's true. Quite a few of them, including Maverick_LSC, Doug Bendo, and WDKaiserV1 (the guy who had the "Death to Macross Purists" signature) readily reiterate the theory that I'm lying about the Macross licensing issue to cause "pain and suffering", and that I'm the sinister lord of a cabal of Macross purists who've infiltrated the Robotech fanbase and are working to destroy it from within. I'm like Cobra Commander to these people, except I'm actually competent and I almost never lose...

Edited March 30, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Robelwell202]

I wonder who they're gonna go after next... HP's Atlantech? Robelwell202's "Destroid's Last Dance" fanfic?

I don't know about HP's stuff. The impression I get is that she's content to do completely original stuff, leaving RT behind.

As for me, I'm working on shifting DLD over to Macross, where it truly belongs. Just gotta figure out all I have to do to get it done.

[SIGHUP]

Oh, I very much doubt that RobotechX is in any danger of being shutdown by Harmony Gold. After all, it's MEMO's baby, and he's one of the very worst ass-kissing Tommy Yune fanboys and goose-stepping pro-Harmony Gold fascists. You've got nothing to fear... your site's an unofficial police box for the Harmony Gold division of ThinkPol.

Correction: ". . MEMO is one of the very worst best ass-kissing Tommy Yune fanboys and goose-stepping pro-Harmony Gold fascists."

I know, it'd be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that some Robotech fans probably believe that it's true. Quite a few of them, including Maverick_LSC, Doug Bendo, and WDKaiserV1 (the guy who had the "Death to Macross Purists" signature) readily reiterate the theory that I'm lying about the Macross licensing issue to cause "pain and suffering", and that I'm the sinister lord of a cabal of Macross purists who've infiltrated the Robotech fanbase and are working to destroy it from within. I'm like Cobra Commander to these people, except I'm actually competent and I almost never lose...

Aye! Aye!, this guy and the high horse. Humility Cobra Commander. Do you have the same annoying voice?

I don't know about HP's stuff. The impression I get is that she's content to do completely original stuff, leaving RT behind.

As for me, I'm working on shifting DLD over to Macross, where it truly belongs. Just gotta figure out all I have to do to get it done.

You're probably ok, unless you show any bit of a sign that you're making a profit off it. Which of course is not your intent.

[Jasonc]

I'd like to see them start sending C&D orders to people who do custom toys because they're better than their precious MPCs. I'd like to get one of their C&D letters for that. I'd wipe my @$$ with it and leave it on their front step. What Nenad should do is simply get his stuff that isn't HG's back then take the art that is RT related and put it on every site he can, so that all of us can daily post pics of it up everywhere. It'd definitely give them at HG something to do other than twiddle their thumbs and find ways to screw their fandom. It's reasons like this that remind me of why I should be ever so thankful that BW didn't cave into HGs way of bringing Macross over. After the celebration and all the hoopla is done, HG needs to just end the RT thing. It is painfully obvious that they don't want intelligent fans.

And regarding Memo's statement on rtx.com...WTF? See, that's why it's best to just not say anything. Nenad is trying to say what is going on, and HG's closest official spokesperson is talking about why this all happened without having a clue of what the issue is.

Sighup, I don't know what to tell you about your site. It won't go down, as all the artwork that's on there is all Tommy's art. As it's stroked the ego, you're in the clear. As much as that news wants to get me pissed, I can't really get upset at it anymore. If you are a RT fan, and pissed though, don't get mad, get even. If they're gonna kick their fans in the groin over and over, the fans need to return the favor.

Edit: Another point I wanted to make was this...since what was taken down was fan art (talking about the RT stuff), Nenad should fight that tooth and nail. The non RT stuff goes without question.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Jasonc

[Seto Kaiba]

Correction: ". . MEMO is one of the very worst best ass-kissing Tommy Yune fanboys and goose-stepping pro-Harmony Gold fascists."

Now you're just splitting hairs... I suppose you could say that he is one of the people who best exemplifies the qualities of being a gratuitous kiss-ass for Tommy Yune and hating anyone and anything that goes against Harmony Gold's company line and going to almost any lengths to shut those people up... but I'd still prefer to say "worst" since those aren't positive qualities from the average person's perspective.

Aye! Aye!, this guy and the high horse. Humility Cobra Commander. Do you have the same annoying voice?

Actually, I can do the Cobra Commander voice pretty well... that's actually how the Macross II RPG group I used to run got the name for the fighter squadron the player characters were in... (one long evening of warped humor involving a comic printed in the back of an issue of Toyfare that one of the guys brought over to discuss the super-poseable RT stuff)

You're probably ok, unless you show any bit of a sign that you're making a profit off it. Which of course is not your intent.

Eh, even then... UEG was pretty adamant that they weren't aiming to make a profit from it, and continue to insist so... if we take their remarks at face value (and the e-mail they've shown) then they never represented themselves as a business entity looking to make a profit from it, just a fan group looking to see if they could get some kind of support for their fan project from HG, a move that probably would've benefited Harmony Gold enormously if they'd had the sense to spin it right... but they opted to can it instead.

[Einherjar]

And regarding Memo's statement on rtx.com...WTF? See, that's why it's best to just not say anything. Nenad is trying to say what is going on, and HG's closest official spokesperson is talking about why this all happened without having a clue of what the issue is.

Sighup, I don't know what to tell you about your site. It won't go down, as all the artwork that's on there is all Tommy's art. As it's stroked the ego, you're in the clear. As much as that news wants to get me pissed, I can't really get upset at it anymore. If you are a RT fan, and pissed though, don't get mad, get even. If they're gonna kick their fans in the groin over and over, the fans need to return the favor.

Agreed. SIGHUP, if I offended you in any way in the past, I am very sorry for what I said or did before. But I have to say that it's a crappy situation(s) your site has been put into by other people recently.

[jenius]

I remember I once put a comment in one of these HG threads saying that HG had a reputation for killing Robotech related websites and fan projects from before my time (last few years) but I couldn't really remember what projects were killed. I'm glad to know that HG is busy providing me with fresh examples.

[DrStrangelove]

Meh HG could start condoning the murder of opponents, and IP violators and I don't think MEMO would find anything wrong with that. Now if Studio Nue hired some Ninja.......

[Einherjar]

You know what's sad? The people Harmony Gold is really trying to attract to Robotech's past and possible future will either never know about it or not care about it. Because in the grand scheme of things, this is just a minor incident meaning very little to them. So they decide to severely punish a few people for various undisclosed reasons. That's acceptable, only people like us will ever know it happened. Everyone else will be distracted with HG's convention panel tour speeches and some guy in a ridiculous Robotech-related costume on a yearly basis.

[Jasonc]

You know what's sad? The people Harmony Gold is really trying to attract to Robotech's past and possible future will either never know about it or not care about it. Because in the grand scheme of things, this is just a minor incident meaning very little to them. So they decide to severely punish a few people for various undisclosed reasons. That's acceptable, only people like us will ever know it happened. Everyone else will be distracted with HG's convention panel tour speeches and some guy in a ridiculous Robotech-related costume on a yearly basis.

And stupid actions like this, wether known by all or not, will always keep Robotech on a slow slide downhill. There really isn't a growing fanbase, so they should be kissing the ass of what fans are left. Maybe they'll catch on eventually after about 5 years of "we're working on something, but we can't say anything." Again, I'll stress, this is why I'm so glad Macross isn't in their hands here. I'd rather pay a little extra for all the Macross goods. Consider that a "non-tainted tax".

[RDClip]

Wow, Seto is so EVIL. Those RT fans are just trying to live their lives in peace and you come in with your evil flying battle fortress powered by rationally and proper spelling and bombard them with reasoned arguments and facts. Then you fly back to your Skull island to your Maniac Association of Cantankerous Robotic Operatic Sooth Sayers or M.A.C.R.O.S.S. and laugh maniacally as the RT fanboys lament.

I think we have the plot of the next robotech movie, Robotech: the Wrath of Seto!!!

[Gubaba]

And stupid actions like this, wether known by all or not, will always keep Robotech on a slow slide downhill. There really isn't a growing fanbase, so they should be kissing the ass of what fans are left. Maybe they'll catch on eventually after about 5 years of "we're working on something, but we can't say anything." Again, I'll stress, this is why I'm so glad Macross isn't in their hands here. I'd rather pay a little extra for all the Macross goods. Consider that a "non-tainted tax".

To play devil's advocate for a moment, let's say UEG did do everything that their critics are alleging: that they wanted to use Genesis to boost their for-profit studio, business center in the Bahamas, all that nonsense. What does it gain Harmony Gold to let this info come out through whispers and rumors? It seems that the practical thing to do would be to put a big front-page splash on the website saying something like, "UEG PRODUCTIONS IS IN NO WAY AFFILIATED WITH HARMONY GOLD" and then giving a little run-down of the situation, as vague or as specific as they please.

It benefits them not at all to have the UEG supporters "shape the narrative," as it were. Just turns it into another PR problem for a company that already has enough low-level grumblings about its business practices. Silly, silly, silly.

[Jasonc]

Silly Rabbit, HG politics is for kids!

[Gubaba]

Silly Rabbit, HG politics is for kids!

"They're ALL after me lucky Macross designs!"

[Seto Kaiba]

I remember I once put a comment in one of these HG threads saying that HG had a reputation for killing Robotech related websites and fan projects from before my time (last few years) but I couldn't really remember what projects were killed. I'm glad to know that HG is busy providing me with fresh examples.

Oh yeah, I remember that post... though I'm not sure if we could really call seeing Harmony Gold resume their bad habit of killing off any fan project that could potentially one-up them or is run by fans critical of the way Harmony Gold runs the franchise. On the one hand, it's always amusing to see Harmony Gold shoot themselves in the foot by abusing the loyal, long-time fans who've been keeping the franchise alive all these years. On the other hand, you can't help but feel bad for the fans who put months or even years of their free time into their project, only to have it turn out to have been for nothing when Harmony Gold gets nervous and starts threatening to sue.

Meh HG could start condoning the murder of opponents, and IP violators and I don't think MEMO would find anything wrong with that. Now if Studio Nue hired some Ninja.......

Considering that at least one of the Robotech die-hards had a signature reading "Death to Macross Purists" on his Robotech.com profile for a good long time before anyone could be made to do anything about it, one could say that Harmony Gold has already given tacit approval to the idea of having Robotech fans resort to violence and intimidation tactics to silence critics. It seems a pretty safe bet that MEMO would endorse it, since Bendo does and MEMO has already endorsed Bendo despite that.

You know what's sad? The people Harmony Gold is really trying to attract to Robotech's past and possible future will either never know about it or not care about it.

All the same, since they've failed spectacularly to attract the attention of the people they want to draw into the Robotech fanbase, they really ought to take heed of how their actions appear to the long-term fans who keep them employed.

Wow, Seto is so EVIL. Those RT fans are just trying to live their lives in peace and you come in with your evil flying battle fortress powered by rationally and proper spelling and bombard them with reasoned arguments and facts. Then you fly back to your Skull island to your Maniac Association of Cantankerous Robotic Operatic Sooth Sayers or M.A.C.R.O.S.S. and laugh maniacally as the RT fanboys lament.

Is it bad that I thought this post was totally awesome?

I think we have the plot of the next robotech movie, Robotech: the Wrath of Seto!!!

Shh! You're not supposed to tell them that I'm really The Awareness, leader of the Haydonites and the secret menace destroying all things Robotech and protoculture... they're not supposed to find that out until Robotech XLII: Rick Hunter gets a Fixed-Rate Mortgage!

What does it gain Harmony Gold to let this info come out through whispers and rumors? It seems that the practical thing to do would be to put a big front-page splash on the website saying something like, "UEG PRODUCTIONS IS IN NO WAY AFFILIATED WITH HARMONY GOLD" and then giving a little run-down of the situation, as vague or as specific as they please.

Nothing at all... but let's be honest here, what do they care if the fans think they're jerks? The only fans they care about are the die-hards who'd buy Tommy Yune's bowel movements so long as they put "Robotech" and "Masterpiece Collection" on the box somewhere.

[Jasonc]

"They're ALL after me lucky Macross designs!"

I'm Coo Coo for Macross Puffs!