HG and Robotech Debates

[HappyPenguins]

maybe its the lack of sleep, but I find that image incredibly hawt

[Bri]

A question, so when did Kawamori started working for Satellite?

"Although Kawamori participated in Satelight's founding in 1995 with the production of Kenji's Spring (released the following year), he did not officially become one of its board directors until 2003. Satelight produced projects without his participation back then, Kawamori worked on projects without Satelight's participation back then, and both still do so now." (Source Egan Loo, 2007)

[Einherjar]

My current rule of thumb in this situation:

People can say whatever they want about the current progress of Robotech, but if it's only die-hard fans and representatives from HG directly talking to a few individuals about what's going on using the same rhetoric, it doesn't mean much. It's their choice to write tl; dr posts, SCREAMING AUTHORITY pieces, @#$% ramblings, or just prove people wrong on a daily basis. If any venue outside all of this has something significant to say to back their claims, not crap to take very subjectively or little shout outs about Robotech, then it would actually mean something. But for now, they're pretty much propositioning the potential of Shadow Chronicles, Shadow Rising, the LAM, and their version of Macross (because not enough people care about Southern Cross or Mospeada without a connection with Macross).

Edited March 23, 2010 by Einherjar

[Gubaba]

maybe its the lack of sleep, but I find that image incredibly hawt

Knock yourself out (so to speak):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv39WKUCScg

Edited March 23, 2010 by Gubaba

[Funkenstein]

You a shock!

[Duke Togo]

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make a sound?

This thread may be the only place this nonsense is getting any attention, anywhere (outside of the few on RT.com).

[Seto Kaiba]

Meh....... since they banned Seto and his friends RT.com become pretty much devoid of anyone capable of having an intelligent conversation or rational debate. Thus I only rarely post there anymore

Unfortunately, from what others have told me in their attempts to share the increasingly imbecilic goings-on of the usual crowd of Robotech.com trolls and wankers, that seems to be the case. Rhade and ShadowLogan could hold their own in intelligent discourse, if only they could be persuaded to drop their asinine, long-discredited pet theories and their insane defense of the indefensible. Other than that, the knowledgeable folks have pretty much been banned for "heresy".

Quoted for truth, justice, and epic quantities of win.

People can say whatever they want about the current progress of Robotech, but if it's only die-hard fans and representatives from HG directly talking to a few individuals about what's going on using the same rhetoric, it doesn't mean much.

Which could easily be taken as a fair definition of the remaining fanbase...

This thread may be the only place this nonsense is getting any attention, anywhere (outside of the few on RT.com)

In the interest of fairness, this is probably the most active Robotech-related topic on any forum devoted to either Robotech or Macross, and it's almost exclusively facepalming and mockery.

[Agent ONE]

I would love to look at HG's books. I just don't see how they operate.

[SIGHUP]

I'm of the opinion that Frank Agrama is waiting / hoping Warner Brothers buys the RT franchise from him outright.

All new RT projects are on hold, with the exception of the movie. You wouldn't want to take on new debt or be in the middle of a new production if you wanted to be bought out!

Despite all the rhetoric on the various sites and on the SC dvd, Frank doesn 't care about RT. It was an unexpected cash cow for a couple of years in the 80s and then made him more money early in the new century. Agrama is all about buying low and selling high, with very little in house investment in between. RT has cost him money. TSC cost him a 1M, and I doubt with the distribution deal with Funimation that it made enough profit to be compelling sequel material. If that were the case, the second animated movie would be in the can by now. Instead, the "creative staff" (I used the term loosely) has been on hiatus for the past two years following WB's option of the RT property. Certainly seems like someone is waiting for something to happen, doesn't it?

The RT movie is largely handcuffed for a narrative without the ability to use the Macross material. The HG staffers are fully aware that a Macross based film is their linchpin for the franchise and BW has effectively shut down that possibility. HG knows that their fans want to see a Macross film. I have to agree with other posters, that to publicly admit HG can't use the Macross IP in new productions would effectively kill the franchise fandom or effective reduce its number.

Then there's the other risk of admission. Without a strong fanbase, the RT property no longer has any value and thus Agrama can't hope to unload or sell it for a profit. If Agrama has sold / given shares to his top brass, then they stand to profit from any sale as well. So keeping the fans loyal by any means necessary would be required by all involved.

This makes sense to me. In the end its all about business. $$$ talks.

What I gleaned from the convention panel discussion videos posted on RTX I honestly don't think they had a story to begin with. Macek's comments lead me to believe that nothing was in the works in so far as animation was concerned. Yune waffled between suggesting a new anime may be a continuation of the SC or a tie in with the LAM. However as time goes on the film appears to have begun a slow sink into "development hell"... As I've already said, WB must be aware that they're best ROI is with a Macross film and they can't do that with HG dangling from their legs...

You know that's the same impression I get. Same with last years' extremely disappointing Robotech Industry Panel @ Comic Con 2010 where NOTHING NEW was announced. Seems to me that HG brought along Carl Macek to prevent them from being booed and tomato-ED off the floor. Heck even MEMO was surprised when he said something like "wow nothing new?"

I've been reading these threads with interest (and sometimes tears of laughter),and thought y'all might be interested in my perspective.

I'm a Macross fan that was introduced to both Macross and anime-in-general by Robotech. Robotech was on in Denver on a channel I couldn't watch because I lived so far out in the country our antenna was blocked by nap-of-the-Earth. (Gawd,that was a long time ago!) In the Summer of '86 though, a overnight in Denver introduced my brother and I to Robotech by way of Bye-Bye Mars. We were blown away! This was nothing like Thundercats or GI Joe, and soon we bought a few action figures and lusted after the un-affordable Macross model kits we saw advertised in magazines,which also was our introduction to the Japanese origin of Robotech. Taking the best option for poor country boys, we collected the McKinney novels. I loved the first 6,suffered through "Masters", and enjoyed "New Generation". I grew older,started to afford the models I wanted,and discovered other anime,preferably subtitled. Mecha remained a favorite,especially the "real" Macross stuff I found.

But I never forgot Robotech. She was the girl what brung me to the dance. Even after I interned at a friend's anime import shop at the turn of the century,learning about HG's attitudes and the real reason it was hard to get Macross stuff, my affection for the old girl remained. I was excited a couple(?) years ago when Shadow Chronicles was announced. It couldn't replace Macross and Gundam, but it would be great to see the rest of the story!

OMG. My problem with SC isn't that it's so bad, it's that it's so.........nothing! 20 years of waiting,for this? Now, all I have left is that lingering affection for Robotech as my anime intro.

But the series just seems irrelevant otherwise. I think HG's business practices are disgusting, but I wish Robotech fans no ill. I'm glad people are still passionate about it. There is even a tiny part of me that hopes there will be a kickass LAM.

Ditto. It has definitely not been a good things for people that have been following the franchise for 20+ years. But that's their own fault. Robotech has to be clearly enjoyed purely for its nostalgic merits. Heck after re-discovering Robotech in 2007 the first DVD boxset I bought from RT.com was the Macross AnimEigo set. In the end Macross is what people want and its not what they'll get.

Joking aside, this is an all-too-common phenomenon among what remains of the Robotech fanbase. Now that the Harmony Gold "creative team" has made it appallingly obvious that they will never produce anything of quality, fans of Robotech find themselves in a difficult position. The most rational fans simply accept that Robotech was just doomed to fail, and move on to other shows that actually have potential. They might retain a lingering affection for the show that introduced them to anime, or they might just walk off shaking their heads and wondering what the hell they were thinking. The more devoted Robotech fans, who've stuck with the franchise through two and a half decades worth of disappointment, will often work themselves up into a frenzy of denial over the current state of affairs. They'll spend hours or days trying to justify how Shadow Chronicles really isn't as bad as everyone says it is, and all the while it's painfully obvious that they don't actually believe the things they're saying and are just trying to retroactively justify 20+ years of wasted time to themselves. The most devoted Robotech fans, who are generally thick enough to actually believe Harmony Gold's hype, have been clinging to the franchise for so long that they've lost all contact with reality and actually believe that Robotech is a strong property and that Shadow Chronicles is a misunderstood gem. Oddly enough, this most devoted group of fans is also usually the group that knows the least about Robotech, frequently tripping up on simple stuff like what character belongs to what saga and the fact that not every minor one-shot character has a huge, elaborate backstory.

This last group is Robotech's core constituency... the strange, mutant creatures whose completely alien concepts of "fun" and "entertainment" leave you wondering if they unwind by building databases in Microsoft Access. More often than not, they give their unwilling audience cause to wonder whether they're masochists, stupid, or both.

In practice, nostalgia is about the only merit Robotech has ever had. Even as early as 1986, Harmony Gold was already gleefully proving that they hadn't a clue how to write original material of their own. Eventually, the nostalgia of the people will run out, and Robotech will finally die... albeit a far less dignified death than the one it should have had back in 1987.

Just look at this guy go at it. Marathon writer. But he is mostly right on the money.

And so the thread of love continues!

[Einherjar]

You know that's the same impression I get. Same with last years' extremely disappointing Robotech Industry Panel @ Comic Con 2010 where NOTHING NEW was announced. Seems to me that HG brought along Carl Macek to prevent them from being booed and tomato-ED off the floor. Heck even MEMO was surprised when he said something like "wow nothing new?"

Seriously? MEMO sounded VERY excited about all the information he found out from AOD and wanted to both tell people and prove the naysayers wrong. He even posted videos of it.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Einherjar

[SIGHUP]

Seriously? MEMO sounded VERY excited about all the information he found out from AOD and wanted to both tell people and prove the naysayers wrong. He even posted videos of it.

I was talking about the Comic Con 2009 Robotech Panel. Carl Macek was a guest there as well.

[Gubaba]

Long, but highly worth it:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discu...27vy&page=1

[Zinjo]

My suspicion with respect to the acrimony between BW and Tats, is that for two companies who peacefully co-existed and even collaborated on a few projects in the decade following Macross to suddenly go to war smells of outside influence.

The Japanese business model is one of "cooperation", not exploitation and domination (that's a Western philosophy! ). Hence the Japanese sincere bafflement at being taken advantage of by Western companies, with respect to anime in particular.

It is my suspicion that HG convinced Tatsunoko that more money could be made if "all" the Macross rights were owned by one company, namely Tatsunoko (and by extension HG would get the rights it wanted to further exploit Macross properties). So a court challenge was filed to claim all the rights to the Macross franchise for Tatsunoko. However, Japanese law and the signed contract between Tats and BW was clear who owned what. The Japanese courts confirmed what was already there, with the exception of giving Tatsunoko the right ( outside of Japan) over the "footage" they animated for SDFM.

I don't believe for one moment that HG was a spectator in this court case. From 1999 - 2003 HG and BW both tried to trademark the name "Macross" in the US and stalemated each other every time. Then "coincidently". 3 months after the Japanese courts ruled in BW favor, HG secures the trademark over "Macross" in the US and subsequently other Western nations in 2003.

Rather an odd maneuver for a company allegedly spectating the court battle in Japan, don't you think? It strikes me more like a razed earth policy. If HG can't profit from new Macross products, NO ONE WILL... A concept foreign to the Japanese business community.

Now HG has WB and Tobey Macquire interested in their property. Unfortunately Macquire's most likely candidate of interest is in actuality not available for use - Macross. So WB is trying to make a bad situation work, but it's been down this road before and may simply abandon the property or buy out HG's interest and persue the Macross property directly with BigWest.

Right now not much is being said, so if the film is going to be green lit is anyone's guess... They need a coherent, dramatic script to work with and after hiring as many as 5 writers, they still have nothing to report.

[TheLoneWolf]

It is my suspicion that HG convinced Tatsunoko that more money could be made if "all" the Macross rights were owned by one company, namely Tatsunoko (and by extension HG would get the rights it wanted to further exploit Macross properties). So a court challenge was filed to claim all the rights to the Macross franchise for Tatsunoko.

I don't think so.

According to Tatsunoko's original contract with Harmony Gold, Tatsunoko presented itself as the owner of all the rights to Macross. See In Harmony Gold et al v. FASA Corporation. Second, why would a Japanese company blindly take legal advice concerning Japanese copyright law from an American?

I don't believe for one moment that HG was a spectator in this court case.

At best, Harmony Gold was an unbiased spectator. At worst, Harmony Gold was a heavily biased spectator. But at no point could Harmony Gold have masterminded those court cases, if that's what you're implying. That's not how a licensor/licensee relationship works. Licensors (Tatsunoko) prescribe the terms of the business relationship to the licensee (Harmony Gold), not the other way around.

[Gubaba]

My suspicion with respect to the acrimony between BW and Tats, is that for two companies who peacefully co-existed and even collaborated on a few projects in the decade following Macross to suddenly go to war smells of outside influence.

The Japanese business model is one of "cooperation", not exploitation and domination (that's a Western philosophy! ). Hence the Japanese sincere bafflement at being taken advantage of by Western companies, with respect to anime in particular.

It is my suspicion that HG convinced Tatsunoko that more money could be made if "all" the Macross rights were owned by one company, namely Tatsunoko (and by extension HG would get the rights it wanted to further exploit Macross properties). So a court challenge was filed to claim all the rights to the Macross franchise for Tatsunoko. However, Japanese law and the signed contract between Tats and BW was clear who owned what. The Japanese courts confirmed what was already there, with the exception of giving Tatsunoko the right ( outside of Japan) over the "footage" they animated for SDFM.

I don't believe for one moment that HG was a spectator in this court case. From 1999 - 2003 HG and BW both tried to trademark the name "Macross" in the US and stalemated each other every time. Then "coincidently". 3 months after the Japanese courts ruled in BW favor, HG secures the trademark over "Macross" in the US and subsequently other Western nations in 2003.

Rather an odd maneuver for a company allegedly spectating the court battle in Japan, don't you think? It strikes me more like a razed earth policy. If HG can't profit from new Macross products, NO ONE WILL... A concept foreign to the Japanese business community.

Now HG has WB and Tobey Macquire interested in their property. Unfortunately Macquire's most likely candidate of interest is in actuality not available for use - Macross. So WB is trying to make a bad situation work, but it's been down this road before and may simply abandon the property or buy out HG's interest and persue the Macross property directly with BigWest.

Right now not much is being said, so if the film is going to be green lit is anyone's guess... They need a coherent, dramatic script to work with and after hiring as many as 5 writers, they still have nothing to report.

Zinjo, you're a great guy, but this is EXACTLY the kind of stuff I hate when this topic comes up. Full of suspicions and accusations, but not a single fact to back any of it up.

Things like this muddy the water rather than clarifying it.

[Einherjar]

I was talking about the Comic Con 2009 Robotech Panel. Carl Macek was a guest there as well.

That makes the announcement involving him from AOD this year less meaningful. He's usually a guest at panels anyway, as if he never left the franchise or HG. So he's officially back on board probably to do something relatively in the future. Does HG now have the ability to do anything with Robotech without Japanese or Korean animation studios? If not, then I guess people will still have to wait for something significant like always.

[waters7]

Back on the legal front, there's one thing I've been wondering about for a couple of days now...correct me if I'm wrong here:

Studio Nue created Macross at the behest of the (what was the name..."Uisu"? Something like that) Corporation.

Uisu (or whatever they were called) folds, and Big West steps in to finance the series.

Big West doesn't have enough money to do so, and calls in Tatsunoko.

Tatsunoko now has part ownership of Macross.

They're also listed for DYRL; but after that, Big West and Tatsunoko part ways.

Does anyone know what the deal is there? Was their agreement only for the series and the movie? If they'd had a successful partship (and, Star Pro episodes aside, no one can argue that it WASN'T successful), why didn't they continue working together? And why would Tatsunoko give up that partnership?

My guess is that we have to look at the circumstances that brought Big West and Tatsunoko together on the production of SDF Macross for clues.

As we know, Big West hit a wall when they realized that neither Studio Nue nor Artland had the manpower to produce a TV series like SDF Macross. Maybe Big West went shopping for a partner to co-produce the series but in the end, we all know that it turned out to be Tatsunoko that was brought in to help with the production.

As far as I understand, Tatsunoko is listed as producer for SDF Macross & DYRL and I couldn't find them in the credits of Flashback 2012. The japanese webiste of Tatsunoko also lists SDF Macross and DYRL only as part of their production catalog (actual entries for SDF Macross and DYRL )

Moving forward, When Big West pushed for new Macross productions, the circumstances of each production where different. For starters, Macross II, Macross Plus, Macross Zero did not have the obligation of producing one new episode every other week. This eliminated manpower that a company like Tatsunoko could provide (in the case of Macross II and Plus). Second, when Big West produced Macross 7 and Frontier it had enough sponsors (in other words, $$$$) and a lot of people involved in the productions that no further "help" from a company like Tatsunoko was required to produce the animation.

I always have seen the association between Tatsunoko and Big West on SDF Macross and DYRL more like a necessity than an actual move that was pre-planned.

Because of the success of the franchise, Big West and Studio Nue are now in a position to produce new animation at their pace and terms, thus eliminating the need of a "last minute" helper like Tatsunoko.

Maybe Tatsunoko showed interested in participating in subsequent Macross productions but who knows...

[azrael]

It is my suspicion that HG convinced Tatsunoko that more money could be made if "all" the Macross rights were owned by one company, namely Tatsunoko (and by extension HG would get the rights it wanted to further exploit Macross properties). So a court challenge was filed to claim all the rights to the Macross franchise for Tatsunoko. However, Japanese law and the signed contract between Tats and BW was clear who owned what. The Japanese courts confirmed what was already there, with the exception of giving Tatsunoko the right ( outside of Japan) over the "footage" they animated for SDFM.

Actually, If you read BW's statement, it was Big West that sued Tatsunoko to verify copyright ownership.

[Bri]

Moving forward, When Big West pushed for new Macross productions, the circumstances of each production where different. For starters, Macross II, Macross Plus, Macross Zero did not have the obligation of producing one new episode every other week. This eliminated manpower that a company like Tatsunoko could provide (in the case of Macross II and Plus). Second, when Big West produced Macross 7 and Frontier it had enough sponsors (in other words, $$$$) and a lot of people involved in the productions that no further "help" from a company like Tatsunoko was required to produce the animation.

Do we know for sure it was BW pushing for Frontier? Other then being involved with Macross, they haven't done anything anime related in years. I can't escape the impression that they are just a rights holder these days.

[Gubaba]

Do we know for sure it was BW pushing for Frontier? Other then being involved with Macross, they haven't done anything anime related in years. I can't escape the impression that they are just a rights holder these days.

That's not entirely true...they did "G-On Riders" in 2002, and "Shima Shima Tora no Shimajirou," which ran from 1993 to 2008, and its... (remake? Sequel? I dunno...) "Hakken Taiken Daisuki! Shimajirou, which is currently ariring.

Not the most impressive of resumés, but they ARE still at it.

[Bri]

That's not entirely true...they did "G-On Riders" in 2002, and "Shima Shima Tora no Shimajirou," which ran from 1993 to 2008, and its... (remake? Sequel? I dunno...) "Hakken Taiken Daisuki! Shimajirou, which is currently ariring.

Not the most impressive of resumés, but they ARE still at it.

Hmm, I have no doubt you have acces to better sources then I have but BW is not credited as a contributor for any of these series with either ANN or Anidb...how annoying.

Edit: Ah I see, the Japanese Wiki page.. checking it now with google translator. 株式会社ビックウエスト should help

Edit 2: Okay, it's quite small: Big West Advertising: 15 employees, $11mln annual turn over, "advertising agency specialized in advertisement planning for media such as TV, radio and magazines and in sales of Internet adds" (Jobstock).

Edited March 24, 2010 by Bri

[Gubaba]

Hmm, I have no doubt you have acces to better sources then I have but BW is not credited as a contributor for any of these series with either ANN or Anidb...how annoying.

I got my info from http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ビ|...#12473;ト

Not sure if that's better or worse...

[SIGHUP]

That makes the announcement involving him from AOD this year less meaningful. He's usually a guest at panels anyway, as if he never left the franchise or HG. So he's officially back on board probably to do something relatively in the future. Does HG now have the ability to do anything with Robotech without Japanese or Korean animation studios? If not, then I guess people will still have to wait for something significant like always.

Not really. He only showed up as a guest @ Comic Con 2009. It was announced @ AOD that he was returning to work on Robotech. Yes, we'll wait another 10 years.

[taksraven]

Actually, If you read BW's statement, it was Big West that sued Tatsunoko to verify copyright ownership.

Are battles over ownership and rights very common in anime in general? I know that there was some issues over the ownership of Space Cruiser Yamato but I was wondering if it was a problem on any sort of larger scale?

Taksraven

Edited March 25, 2010 by taksraven

[Zinjo]

Actually, If you read BW's statement, it was Big West that sued Tatsunoko to verify copyright ownership.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. However, WHY would BW feel the need to "verify ownership" if they and Tatsunoko were perfectly happy with the initially contracted arrangement for over a decade?

Questions had to have been raised by either activity or assertions made against what BW felt was their property. Maybe it was the comments made by HG staffers in the US stating they had the right to do what they wanted with the Macross franchise outside of Japan... As of yet, I am not aware of what the provocation was for the lawsuit in the first place.

What I do know is that some very suspicious activity took place in North America after the initial Japanese court decision was made in late 2002. Particularly in the area of the trademark offices in the West with respect to HG.

[taksraven]

Don't know how many here have seen/written about this, but it must have had steam coming out of the ears of HG and probably quickened their hand at killing the project.....

http://www.united-earth-group.com/en/artemis/gregfinley

Taksraven

[MastaEgg]

Actually, If you read BW's statement, it was Big West that sued Tatsunoko to verify copyright ownership.

That's a pretty dick move on BW's part isn't it? If they had better relations with Tatsunoko, maybe these international problems could get resolved. You know, like taking away HG's rights and giving them to someone more competent.

[waters7]

Questions had to have been raised by either activity or assertions made against what BW felt was their property. Maybe it was the comments made by HG staffers in the US stating they had the right to do what they wanted with the Macross franchise outside of Japan... As of yet, I am not aware of what the provocation was for the lawsuit in the first place..

According to Animerica, this whole issue started when Toycom received a C&D letter from Harmony Gold circa 1999.

At the time, Toycom was working with Yamato (according to Wikipedia, Toycom was Yamato's U.S. division during that time) to distribute part of their valkyrie line in the U.S. The Animerica article stated that Harmony Gold send the C&D letter under the basis of having ownership of "all Macross" outside of Japan. It is my understanding that Toycom was promoting their product on anime conventions and the 1999 NY toyfair and after receiving this letter, the product was put on hold while they consulted with Yamato.

The article does not explain what transpired afterwards however, it is easy to assume that Yamato probably consulted with Big West about this issue with HG having "all ownership of Macross"

Eventually, the head of Toycom (George Sohn) broke off the deal with Yamato and negotiated with Harmony Gold to produce a line of Robotech veritechs. These veritechs were produced by a new company with the name of Toynami which by the way, was founded by George Sohn

[BeyondTheGrave]

I would love to look at HG's books. I just don't see how they operate.

Probably like every other company that has multiple divisions. Division B "sells" item to division A. Allowing B to post a profit. Even though its the same money no matter what.

[azrael]

That's a pretty dick move on BW's part isn't it? If they had better relations with Tatsunoko, maybe these international problems could get resolved. You know, like taking away HG's rights and giving them to someone more competent.

Well, now we come back to Zinjo's question:

However, WHY would BW feel the need to "verify ownership" if they and Tatsunoko were perfectly happy with the initially contracted arrangement for over a decade?

You don't sue someone without provocation. Something started this and it probably involves Tatsunoko's side of things somewhere in the mess.

[jenius]

Here's how I would presume the whole BW suing Tatsunoko thing happened:

1) Yamato licenses the rights to make some Macross toy. License allows sublicensing without restrictions.

2) Yamato and Toycom start fabbing up toys with plans to release under Toycom banner pretty much everywhere

3) HG presents C&D to Toycom

4) Toycom goest to Yamato and says WTF?

5) Yamato goes to BW and says WTF?

6) BW goes to Tats and says WTF?

7) Tats says, "Yeah, we own the merchandising rights for Macross and gave them to HG, we get a cut of all Macross products domestically and HG gets a cut internationally."

BW says "I sue youzz!"

9) Court says "Sorry BW, Tats does own merchandising rights and rights to the original animation for the original Macross series."

10) Tats says "HAHAHA, We own Macross!!!"

11) BW says "I sue youzz!!!"

12) Court says "BW gets IP rights since they designed the series before Tats involvement, Tats gets merchandising and film rights."

13) Tats says "That's cool."

14) BW says "Die in a plane crash." Then sets about writing every Macross license so that toy distribution to the states is never allowed.

[Seto Kaiba]

Here's how I would presume the whole BW suing Tatsunoko thing happened:

You've got some events backwards... the first ruling was Big West's copyright confirmation case over ownership of the IP of the original Macross series, and the second was the one in Tatsunoko's favor that had them as owners of the footage itself.... among other things.

[azrael]

Here's how I would presume the whole BW suing Tatsunoko thing happened:

#9 and #12 are reversed....

[Vostok 7]

Don't know how many here have seen/written about this, but it must have had steam coming out of the ears of HG and probably quickened their hand at killing the project.....

http://www.united-earth-group.com/en/artemis/gregfinley

Taksraven

It's becoming painfully clear that HG is out for one thing: Money. Not the fans, certainly not the fans. They just want money.

Instead of trying to work with people like this for both to benefit financially AND placate the fans, they just stomp and sue. Stomp and sue. Battletech is another great example of this, especially the most recent wranglings they've been having over the unseens reseen and then unseen again and MechWarrior 5. It's ridiculous that they just can't come to an agreement. Instead of finding a way to make everyone happy, they either just C&D and sue, or they demand completely unreasonable licensing fees.

What they are losing out on is the crossover fans. I wouldn't know much about Macross or Robotech if it wasn't for Battletech, and that exposure made me a fan. By HG C&D-ing and suing everything they can find that potentially crosses their trademarks (The big battle they had over MechWarrior 5 was over a Warhammer shown in the game trailer that was actually the redesigned Warhammer, NOT the original Macross design (Tomahawk). The redesigns of the originally Macross (and other Anime mechs that were lost in the original power struggles) just look somewhat similar so that continuity could be kept in the game world. HG got their panties in a bunch over it anyway ), all they are doing is alienating everyone but the die-hard life-long Robotech fans who think they can do no wrong. Battletech fans are bitter, Macross fans are bitter, etc. etc.

In the long run they are shooting themselves in the foot. I'm reminded of Aesop's fable, The Dog and the Bone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dog_and_the_Bone

Sorry if this all has been covered, I'm just rambling because I've been thinking about this lately.

[VF5SS]

(The big battle they had over MechWarrior 5 was over a Warhammer shown in the game trailer that was actually the redesigned Warhammer, NOT the original Macross design (Tomahawk).

no it wasn't

it was a retextured Tomahawk