HG and Robotech Debates

[VFTF1]

What have you taken, and where can I get some? The world is a whole new place!

I don't actually take any drugs, you see. At least not real ones. In fact, the reasoning behind my posts is simple to discern when you bear in mind that I belong to an intellectua elite from the planet Neptune. We are plotting to overthrowthe rulers of Pluto, who come from the nether regions of Uptar.

Now - this all sounds very far fetched - but in reality it is not true. I am not really here. That is - I am - when I go to the gym - as the pictures showed in the other thread. But beyond that - I'm not.

Pete

[Robelwell202]

Yeah, but we are talking about HG here...

So very true.

HG started RT on the work of others, and while they keep telling their fans that 'That's no longer cannon', they have yet to purchase a brain, so they STILL need to use the work of others to make things happen.

[Seto Kaiba]

HG pretty much defined what Robotech's expanded universe amounts to.

Oh yes, I find it almost perversely amusing that after decades spent obfuscating Robotech's origins and exaggerating the importance of the TV series, Harmony Gold openly admits that Robotech's Expanded Universe was nothing but a series of knee-jerk attempts to wring a few more bucks out of the comatose franchise without getting their "creative team" involved, and that the resulting mess is so badly executed and so inconsistent with the core story that there's no way that they can classify any of it as canon.

HG doesn't believe in "expanded universe", as usually that consists of getting their lawyers involved. If it ain't HG's, it ain't Robotech, pure and simple. Funny though, that as much as they de-canon and dissolve the novels and Sentinels and all that, they used most of it in the new canon. Usually you do something completely new and better, not regurgitate the old stuff.

Well, even McKeever somewhat sheepishly admits that the reason the "expanded universe" titles are essentially non-canon is that they were created with little or no oversight or input from Harmony Gold's creative team. The end result is that their stories often contradict the "core continuity" of the series and each other, incorporating a great many stories, characters, and mecha which simply don't fit with Robotech's story and design aesthetic. Likely the frequent "borrowing" from other copyrighted sci-fi works like Macross: Flashback 2012, Independence Day, etc. is also a factor.

If you actually take the time to examine the new Robotech material, you'll see that the only part of Robotech's expanded universe that they're overly picking up and running with is Jason and John Waltrip's Robotech II comics. The new stories pick up literally right where the old Sentinels comics left off when they were canceled, with Edwards going on a backstabbing spree before murdering Kyle and kidnapping Minmei. There are superficial similarities to End of the Circle in RTSC, but the primary title that's Tommy is using as inspiration shaking down for ideas to use is the new Battlestar Galactica series.

[taksraven]

So very true.

HG started RT on the work of others, and while they keep telling their fans that 'That's no longer cannon', they have yet to purchase a brain, so they STILL need to use the work of others to make things happen.

Exactly, the foundations to the whole franchise are so shoddy, they have pretty much no chance of EVER finding a way to do anything decent with it.

Thats probably for the best, though.

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

Oh yes, I find it almost perversely amusing that after decades spent obfuscating Robotech's origins and exaggerating the importance of the TV series, Harmony Gold openly admits that Robotech's Expanded Universe was nothing but a series of knee-jerk attempts to wring a few more bucks out of the comatose franchise without getting their "creative team" involved, and that the resulting mess is so badly executed and so inconsistent with the core story that there's no way that they can classify any of it as canon.

It doesn't shy HG away from still trying to sell those kind of things on their website, at least before, with many of the novels and comics sold out at the moment. Unless you're a fan of the books or just curious, there's very little incentive to buy them thanks to these guys.

[Seto Kaiba]

Exactly, the foundations to the whole franchise are so shoddy, they have pretty much no chance of EVER finding a way to do anything decent with it.

At present, it doesn't look like there's any way for Harmony Gold to salvage what remains of the Robotech franchise except tossing the entire established setting and continuity out the window and starting from scratch under the direction of someone who actually knows what the hell they're doing. This is more-or-less a fair description of what they hope the live action movie will be... a reboot, created by someone competent, that stays well clear of all the intellectual property issues which make continuing the story of the "original 85" a complete boondoggle.

It doesn't shy HG away from still trying to sell those kind of things on their website, at least before, with many of the novels and comics sold out at the moment. Unless you're a fan of the books or just curious, there's very little incentive to buy them thanks to these guys.

Really, with so much of their merchandise aimed solely at nostalgic or obsessive long-time fans it doesn't seem at all out of place for Harmony Gold to reprint the more popular novelizations (in short, just the adaptations of the TV series) to appeal to the fans who are either curious or have loved their original copies to death... which many McKinney fans seem to have done over the years. Unless you're overly nostalgic, curious, or just plain stupid, there's very little reason to buy any of the merchandise in the Robotech.com store... particularly with the store's atrocious customer service record.

[Gubaba]

It doesn't shy HG away from still trying to sell those kind of things on their website, at least before, with many of the novels and comics sold out at the moment. Unless you're a fan of the books or just curious, there's very little incentive to buy them thanks to these guys.

Isn't that where the forums come in? If you're new to Robotech, and you see some people raving about the books on the forum, canonical or not, you might be moved to check 'em out.

[Einherjar]

Isn't that where the forums come in? If you're new to Robotech, and you see some people raving about the books on the forum, canonical or not, you might be moved to check 'em out.

But if the people running the show no longer consider them canon, or give the storyline in the novels and comic books no weight in the franchise anymore, what is the point? It just makes that stuff merchandise to make money off of for a good read or something nice to look at for the artwork. But, they may never represent real Robotech again, or at least the vision of what HG wants Robotech to really be now if they ever get the opportunity to act.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

Isn't that where the forums come in? If you're new to Robotech, and you see some people raving about the books on the forum, canonical or not, you might be moved to check 'em out.

Unless the Robotech forums out there have undergone a dramatic transformation since last I looked, the forums are definitely not a place that will entice anyone to purchase the non-canon expanded universe material. Usually, the fans who frequent those forums react badly to mention of the old comic books and novels, with a range of responses that vary from mild antipathy to the sort of vehement condemnation that leaves you wondering if the poster's family was murdered with (or perhaps by) the expanded universe title(s) in question. Once in a while you get someone who actually likes them, but they're exceptional cases and have been growing increasingly rare since the Robotech Purists have scourged fans of the comics, novels, and Japanese originals from their midst on most sites.

But if the people running the show no longer consider them canon, or give the storyline in the novels and comic books no weight in the franchise anymore, what is the point? It just makes that stuff merchandise to make money off of for a good read or something nice to look at for the artwork. But, they may never represent real Robotech again, or at least the vision of what HG wants Robotech to really be now if they ever get the opportunity to act.

Well, most of them would be rather difficult to obtain without resorting to eBay or similar measures, since Harmony Gold hasn't seen fit to reprint the novels which bridge the gaps between sagas, the Sentinels novels which wrap the whole thing up, or most of the old comics. Some people pursue them as simple curiosities, evidence of a bygone age that will never come again... like taking a little kid to a museum display of obsolete technology so they can wonder how people ever got things done with monochrome green and black screens and 5" floppy disks. Others pursue them out of nostalgia (duh).

Robotech's continuity is such a mess that nobody but the purists actually give a toss about it. Those who don't give a toss about continuity usually pursue them simply for their own sake as stand-alone stories. It's this cavalier attitude towards continuity that contributes substantially to making debates on Robotech sites exercises in frustration and repetition... like arguing with a deaf macaw that only knows three phrases.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[SIGHUP]

Tons to catch up. This thread moves faster than two shakes of a lamb's tail.

Yeah, but again, that's how he does things. You either accept it, or go elsewhere. Same as any other forum.

I believe Memo pays the bills...which (as we learned with the Macross Generation ruckus) is the true indicator of who has the power.

But definitely, I think there are a number of people who wouldn't be there (and a couple who wouldn't have been banned) if Memo got EVERYTHING his way.

Actually, if my understanding of the situation is right, it seems like a pretty good balance: Sighup knows all the computer stuff (and did a great job designing the site), so Memo can't very well get rid of him, but Memo pays for the site, which makes him pretty indispensable as well. They'll probably end up hating each other (if they don't already), but it makes for a pretty evenly-run site, despite a few hiccups here and there.

You've pretty much nailed. Hate? That's a strong word.

MEMO pays the bills, but SIGHUP is supposedly the one who does most of the actual work necessary to keep the site running. SIGHUP also doesn't seem to care, as he ignored pretty much every report of Bendo and PTH's harassment.

MEMO gets most things his way there anyway, because SIGHUP doesn't seem to care. The only things that seemed to get SIGHUP moving were when the troublemakers went after him personally like PTH did, or when a good half-dozen of the site's most active members were barraging him with complaints.

Hmm, somewhat true. I care just enough I'd say. Baby-sitting forums is not my thing. What was my nickname? Uh. . . Mr. Apathy or something, I forget.

HG doesn't believe in "expanded universe", as usually that consists of getting their lawyers involved. If it ain't HG's, it ain't Robotech, pure and simple. Funny though, that as much as they de-canon and dissolve the novels and Sentinels and all that, they used most of it in the new canon. Usually you do something completely new and better, not regurgitate the old stuff.

That is what bugs me so about HG. i guess I understand that as they're a company that *needs* to do it in order to contain the franchise their way. But c'mon now, seems to me fan ideas have a lot more mileage than the "official" story.

Well, even McKeever somewhat sheepishly admits that the reason the "expanded universe" titles are essentially non-canon is that they were created with little or no oversight or input from Harmony Gold's creative team. The end result is that their stories often contradict the "core continuity" of the series and each other, incorporating a great many stories, characters, and mecha which simply don't fit with Robotech's story and design aesthetic. Likely the frequent "borrowing" from other copyrighted sci-fi works like Macross: Flashback 2012, Independence Day, etc. is also a factor.

Little or no oversight is probably why they're good or better.

Robotech's continuity is such a mess that nobody but the purists actually give a toss about it. Those who don't give a toss about continuity usually pursue them simply for their own sake as stand-alone stories. It's this cavalier attitude towards continuity that contributes substantially to making debates on Robotech sites exercises in frustration and repetition... like arguing with a deaf macaw that only knows three phrases.

What's a macaw?

[Einherjar]

A macaw is a parrot.

That is what bugs me so about HG. i guess I understand that as they're a company that *needs* to do it in order to contain the franchise their way. But c'mon now, seems to me fan ideas have a lot more mileage than the "official" story.

With the company looking more and more unlikely/unable to do anything with Robotech themselves, maybe they should have thought twice about cleaning house with continuity. At the most, canon is only the original series and Tommy Yune's various contributions to the franchise that still end on cliffhangers. Whether or not Robotech Battlecry is canon or not, for example, expy Jack Archer's fate is still ambiguous unless that was just another a-pull among many a-pulls in this franchise.

At least there would be more to celebrate for this year if most of the progress since 1985 wasn't shafted.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

Hmm, somewhat true. I care just enough I'd say. Baby-sitting forums is not my thing.

Even if it's not your thing, the job has to be done by someone. If the whole series of incidents surrounding dougbendo and Pizza the Hutt proved anything, it's that MEMO is NOT the right man for the job. Regardless of whether it was "your thing" or not, that MEMO was gleefully looking the other way while his cronies dougbendo and Pizza the Hutt were busily calling most of the site's active membership everything from trolls to pedophiles and child pornographers should have prompted a reaction from you without needing me, HP, Viper, and a handful of other people getting on your case about it. Having to wait days or weeks for moderator intervention definitely did nothing to help the already-tense situation.

Little or no oversight is probably why they're good or better.

Now that's a stretch... even by the standards of independent publishing houses, the Robotech comics were, at best, nothing special. One of the most common complaints that crops up whenever they're mentioned is that issues often had decent cover art that caught the eye, and that the contents were almost invariably of substantially lower quality. Calling them "good or better" is definitely reaching a bit. Some of them had vaguely interesting stories (and I'm saying this as someone who has all but two or three of them), but more often than not the stories were trite, cliched, and boring, with flat, uninteresting characters and art that not only failed to ape the animation style of the original works, but frequently couldn't even stay on-model.

What's a macaw?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaw

With the company looking more and more unlikely/unable to do anything with Robotech themselves, maybe they should have thought twice about cleaning house with continuity. At the most, canon is only the original series and Tommy Yune's various contributions to the franchise that still end on cliffhangers. Whether or not Robotech Battlecry is canon or not, for example, expy Jack Archer's fate is still ambiguous unless that was just another a-pull among many a-pulls in this franchise.

Honestly, I think the decision to place the majority of the old comics and the novels outside of the continuity was easily the smartest decision Tommy has made during his tenure as creative director. The old comics and the novels diverged from the series far too frequently and contradict each other and the series far too often for their effect on the continuity to be anything other than detrimental.

[Beltane70]

Ah, yes, I remember that quite a few Robotech comics from the 90s had art that looked like they were drawn by six year-olds. I hate to say it, but even Rob Liefelds artwork was better than some of those Robotech comics.

[SIGHUP]

Even if it's not your thing, the job has to be done by someone. If the whole series of incidents surrounding dougbendo and Pizza the Hutt proved anything, it's that MEMO is NOT the right man for the job. Regardless of whether it was "your thing" or not, that MEMO was gleefully looking the other way while his cronies dougbendo and Pizza the Hutt were busily calling most of the site's active membership everything from trolls to pedophiles and child pornographers should have prompted a reaction from you without needing me, HP, Viper, and a handful of other people getting on your case about it. Having to wait days or weeks for moderator intervention definitely did nothing to help the already-tense situation.

Well true, it can't be denied. Luckily now tension is at an all-time low @ RTX with moderate activity.

As far as the fate of Robotech goes, who knows. Its up in the air. Much like its been for so many years. Maybe that's what happens when you don't let something die. It is just not natural.

Nothing more than to play the Robotech game of wait and see, while the fans entertain themselves.

[Seto Kaiba]

Ah, yes, I remember that quite a few Robotech comics from the 90s had art that looked like they were drawn by six year-olds. I hate to say it, but even Rob Liefelds artwork was better than some of those Robotech comics.

Admittedly, you might have a point there... some of the more atrociously off-model moments in the old Robotech comic books are right up there with the famously-awful work of Rob Liefeld in terms of anatomical improbabilities, oddly shifting body proportions, and a bizarre inability to understand how people's bodies interact with objects around them. I wouldn't evens say that the Waltrips were exempt from these screwups, since the size of Jack Baker's chin seemed to change from panel to panel, as did the size of pretty much every character's hairdo on occasion.

We have to cut them a little slack since these guys were not exactly big-name publishers, and their amateurish quality of work could easily be chalked up to their relative inexperience.

Still, the one thing that probably killed more Robotech comics than any other factor was the tendency many series had to have exciting looking, reasonably well-drawn covers and contents that completely fail to live up to the promise of their packaging. "Interesting cover, bland comic" was a real problem, particularly once Academy Comics got ahold of the license.

Well true, it can't be denied. Luckily now tension is at an all-time low @ RTX with moderate activity.

"Moderate activity" seems to consist primarily of MEMO banishing anything that resembles dissent to the hidden "Cannon Fodder" forum, and people plugging podcasts.

As far as the fate of Robotech goes, who knows. Its up in the air. Much like its been for so many years. Maybe that's what happens when you don't let something die. It is just not natural.

Nothing more than to play the Robotech game of wait and see, while the fans entertain themselves.

Saying that the Robotech franchise is back where it was about 10-15 years ago is probably giving the current state of affairs rather more credit than it deserves. At least prior to 2001 there was a steady trickle of low-quality comics and novels to give the fans the feeling that the franchise was moving forward even after Carl Macek's third failed attempt to continue the story. These days, literally the only signs of life from the franchise have been overpriced toys trotted out at a rate of one or two per year.

That some fans actually take ill-informed, boorish people like MEMO, Maverick, and Doug Bendo seriously is a pretty sad sign of the times for Robotech. For all practical purposes, the franchise died back in 2000 when Carl Macek's latest pet project (Robotech 3000) was canceled and Tommy Yune took over.

[Einherjar]

Honestly, I think the decision to place the majority of the old comics and the novels outside of the continuity was easily the smartest decision Tommy has made during his tenure as creative director. The old comics and the novels diverged from the series far too frequently and contradict each other and the series far too often for their effect on the continuity to be anything other than detrimental.

Consequently, people expect Tommy to replace all that with something else with better quality on a regular basis. However, all of that stopped in 2006/2007, so for a lot of people going through all that trouble hasn't been justified yet. The novels at least gave people an ending to three generations worth of stories, and Tommy has yet to finish what he started. He only gave the world episode 86, and that's as generous as I'm going to get about Shadow Chronicles.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Einherjar

[Aladdin Sane]

He only gave the world episode 86, and that's as generous as I'm going to get about Shadow Chronicles.

Given the neat little portion of time in Shadow Chronicles that was spent rewritting the end of the series proper, it might be more apt to say he gave the world episode 85.5.

[Seto Kaiba]

Consequently, people expect Tommy to replace all that with something else with better quality on a regular basis.

Really? I can honestly say I've never met a Robotech fan who wanted Tommy to churn out Robotech comics on a regular basis to replace the old comics, or thought that he would keep doing miniseries titles on a regular basis. In the Robotech fandom, comic books and novels are second-class content at best. Continuing the story of the original series has always been what Robotech fans wanted most, and it's no stretch at all to say that while most fans see the new comics as idle curiosities or vaguely interesting side stories, most of them would much rather see Tommy work on the next half-assed direct-to-DVD movie.

However, all of that stopped in 2006/2007, so for a lot of people going through all that trouble hasn't been justified yet. The novels at least gave people an ending to three generations worth of stories, and Tommy has yet to finish what he started. He only gave the world episode 86, and that's as generous as I'm going to get about Shadow Chronicles.

Admittedly, the novels attached an ending where Carl Macek never intended for there to be one. In his "vision" for the unplanned and unpursued Robotech III, Robotech IV, and Robotech V, Macek explained that he wanted the story to essentially by cyclical, with the whole affair ending with an Admiral Hunter reminiscing about how the whole mess got started, looping back onto episode 1 from a planned episode numbering somewhere around 365.

What Tommy did was toss that stuff was largely never intended to be there in the first place, and attempted to modify the New Generation's ending to provide a new villain for the ongoing story... and it didn't work terribly well.

[taksraven]

What Tommy did was toss that stuff was largely never intended to be there in the first place, and attempted to modify the New Generation's ending to provide a new villain for the ongoing story... and it didn't work terribly well.

Tommy certainly "tossed" something....

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

So here's a question:

Do you think Robotech would have been better off if Shadow Chronicles had never been made ?

Pete

[Gubaba]

So here's a question:

Do you think Robotech would have been better off if Shadow Chronicles had never been made ?

Pete

That's a good question...better off in what way, and better off to whom?

Financially, it seems like it was a good decision. Made on the cheap, and it seems to have sold adequately. Artisitically, it was, I think, a good move if you include the novels and comics into the equation. As lame as Shadow Chronicles was, it wasn't as lame as some other things (now swept out of continuity) with the Robotech name on them. And there ARE people who like the movie, weird as that sounds.

As a statement of purpose, i.e. "Robotech is alive and well and can stand toe-to-toe with other franchises," it failed, I think; first, because of how cheap it looked and how anemic the story was, and second, because HG failed to follow it up quickly. It makes the movie look more than an aberration than a return to form.

[Einherjar]

As a statement of purpose, i.e. "Robotech is alive and well and can stand toe-to-toe with other franchises," it failed, I think; first, because of how cheap it looked and how anemic the story was, and second, because HG failed to follow it up quickly. It makes the movie look more than an aberration than a return to form.

I think it opened the door for many horrifying possibilities for fans; anything cheaply made and generic looking can now be called Robotech by HG and will succeed by default because quality doesn't matter anymore. Just starve people of materiel and then dangle a couple of things people remember and the whole thing will print money.

Also, well, you know that meme that came out of Code Geass, "Everything is Fabulous!" Robotech's is moving towards, "Everything is Subjective!" thanks to this randomness.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Einherjar

[chrisk]

So here's a question:

Do you think Robotech would have been better off if Shadow Chronicles had never been made ?

Pete

Some sort of "follow-up" would have been made in comic form (sort of what other companies did with the Battle of the Planets and the Thundercats franchise). It would've sold less than 15,000 copies and the franchise would have to resort to completely cashing-in on the Macross merchandising license for the next decade or so.

With no Shadow Rising or LAM in sight, they've fallen back into this pattern with Macross mugs, t-shirts, and toys since NewGen stuff doesn't sell as well. Zzzzzzzzzz.

[Wanzerfan]

My lawyers will be in touch with you soon.

Let me guess, is the law firm's name Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe?

I see they're still trying to milk the merchandicing cash cow, huh? Can't they realize that particular cow's milk's run dry?

[Gubaba]

Let me guess, is the law firm's name Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe?

Nah, I got rid of THEM a long time ago, the shiftless money-sponges. Now I'm with the prominent firm of Salitieri, Poore, Nash, De Brutus and Short.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Gubaba

[Seto Kaiba]

Do you think Robotech would have been better off if Shadow Chronicles had never been made ?

Well, there's a question that begs a definition of exactly what you consider "better off"?

At least from a financial standpoint, the franchise is better off for having squirted out the mediocre, direct-to-DVD mess that we know as Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles. It was made on a shoestring budget (confirmed to be less than $1 million) and sold reasonably well among the cowardly cattle of the Robotech fanbase. From a PR standpoint, it's solid gold, since it convinced quite a few fanatical Robotech fans that the promised revival was actually happening, and restored the illusion of progress to the brand... which in Robotech's case is far more important than actually making progress.

Is the continuity better off? It's hard to say. Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles is so bloody insubstantial and so short that it doesn't really have a chance to go anywhere or do anything. Around half of the movie is a badly executed retcon of the events of episode 85, and the other half is so devoid of actual content or story progress that the whole affair feels like an over-long intro cutscene. The retcons are slightly troublesome for people who actually care about a coherent story, but not giving a toss about continuity and obvious plot holes is pretty much par for the course when you're a "true" Robotech fan. On balance, I would say it's too early to tell what the fallout of this new direction they're taking is... though it bodes ill for the continuity of the New Generation.

With no Shadow Rising or LAM in sight, they've fallen back into this pattern with Macross mugs, t-shirts, and toys since NewGen stuff doesn't sell as well. Zzzzzzzzzz.

They've fallen back on Macross again because that's what sells... the New Generation was always a distant second to the Macross Saga in every poll and popularity contest. It doesn't help that they've been ratcheting up the prices of the MPCs steadily either, and marketing them alongside Mospeada collectibles of much higher quality at more or less the same price. The whole Maia Sterling MPC recall and the subsequent price hike for the reissue with just as many major defects as the original did a lot to erode consumer confidence in the brand and interest in future Shadow Chronicles merchandise. So they're taking the logical route and falling back on a product that they KNOW will sell no matter what.

[Gubaba]

In gossipy news, Pizza the Hutt got banned A SECOND TIME from RT.com.

[Seto Kaiba]

In gossipy news, Pizza the Hutt got banned A SECOND TIME from RT.com.

Link? Also, what for this time?

[Gubaba]

Link? Also, what for this time?

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...p;pagenumber=24

And as for why...well, probably just for being Pizza the Hutt. Does anyone really need a reason to ban him anymore?

[Seto Kaiba]

And as for why...well, probably just for being Pizza the Hutt. Does anyone really need a reason to ban him anymore?

Oh, lol... it looks like you might've been wrong about him changing sides again after being banned from MacrossWorld. It looks like he was re-banned for making a clone account to circumvent the ban on his original account, and for calling into question the honesty and accuracy of McKeever's claims that Robotech is doing better than ever by asking for actual evidence to back it up. Were it not for the slightly creepy earlier clone account where he pretended to be his own sister, I would almost be inclined to pat him on the back for standing up to the propagandists and asking that they put up or shut up...

Now that Franklin fellow up at the top of the page doesn't seem to be long for the site... odds are MEMO's already working on a way to ban him for not buying McKeever's bullshit wholesale.

[Keith]

Wait, what did we ban him for? I'm so behind on these things.

[Gubaba]

Oh, lol... it looks like you might've been wrong about him changing sides again after being banned from MacrossWorld.

I said that? I mean, I figured he'd go back to loving Robotech and talking about "that farce Frontier" and "japcrap" and all that, but I don't think I ever thought he'd become an HG fan ever again...

Wait, what did we ban him for? I'm so behind on these things.

You should know, you were there! It was for the racist video, and his inability to see that it was racist. And for being a Robotech fan who came here solely to talk shit about other Robotech fans or something.

[Keith]

You should know, you were there! It was for the racist video, and his inability to see that it was racist. And for being a Robotech fan who came here solely to talk poo about other Robotech fans or something.

You know, I totally forgot about that, most days I post in this topic, and rarely look back since it fills up so quick.

[Seto Kaiba]

Wait, what did we ban him for? I'm so behind on these things.

What he got the boot for here on MacrossWorld was posting a fairly racist video in a post about Doug Bendo. His status as one of the Robotech fans who seems to have come here and done little else besides post in this thread probably did him no favors in the eyes of the moderators either.

I said that? I mean, I figured he'd go back to loving Robotech and talking about "that farce Frontier" and "japcrap" and all that, but I don't think I ever thought he'd become an HG fan ever again...

What you predicted was that his interest in Macross would turn out to be a heel face turn done specifically to annoy MEMO, and that once he made up with MEMO or found some other Robotech site to take him in, we'd see a face heel turn and he'd go back to hating Macross again... which doesn't seem to have been the case.

[Gubaba]

What you predicted was that his interest in Macross would turn out to be a heel face turn done specifically to annoy MEMO, and that once he made up with MEMO or found some other Robotech site to take him in, we'd see a face heel turn and he'd go back to hating Macross again... which doesn't seem to have been the case.

Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't (just because he hates HG doesn't mean he's a Macross fan, after all). If all goes well, we'll never know...since he'll have no forum on which to opine.