HG and Robotech Debates

[HappyPenguins]

Aww man you just dont get it man the skull like represents like the ah thing yeah man it like represents...a skull!!!

Maybe RTSC would be much better if i was really wasted when i watched it. Anyone have a good SC drinking game?

yes, take a drink every time there's an ass or boob shot =]

[Gubaba]

yes, take a drink every time there's an ass or boob shot =]

That's a good one...I say take a drink every time you think, "Man, isn't there something more worthwhile I could be doing with my time...?"

[Moly_Sigang]

yes, take a drink every time there's an ass or boob shot =]

That's a good one...I say take a drink every time you think, "Man, isn't there something more worthwhile I could be doing with my time...?"

How about...take a drink every time there's a close up on the character's face?

[anime52k8]

yes, take a drink every time there's an ass or boob shot =]

oh great, now we've all got alcohol poisoning.

[derex3592]

oh great, now we've all got alcohol poisoning.

LMAO!

[VFTF1]

For the record, I have nothing against even "excessive" Tits and Ass" in an anime. My problem with the shadow chronicles is not the presence of T&A - rather, if we're going to stick to discussing aesthetics - I hate the clothing that the girls have. Who cares if the suits are tight. They all look terrible. The guys look like Match Box action figures. The designs are generally aesthetically unfashionable. I also don't really like their hair. Overall - it's all unimaginative.

Lots of shows have tits and ass, not all of them merit interest.

Naturally, my critique of SC can go further than that even - but if we're ONLY looking at the tits and ass part - then there you have it.

Pete

[Wanzerfan]

For the record, I have nothing against even "excessive" Tits and Ass" in an anime. My problem with the shadow chronicles is not the presence of T&A - rather, if we're going to stick to discussing aesthetics - I hate the clothing that the girls have. Who cares if the suits are tight. They all look terrible. The guys look like Match Box action figures. The designs are generally aesthetically unfashionable. I also don't really like their hair. Overall - it's all unimaginative.

Lots of shows have tits and ass, not all of them merit interest.

Naturally, my critique of SC can go further than that even - but if we're ONLY looking at the tits and ass part - then there you have it.

Pete

You have three guesses on who originally did the Robotech action figue line. And the first two guesses don't count!!!

[Jasonc]

When I saw the screening at the HG studio of this, at the end, there was a lot of clapping and such. What I found quite interesting, was that many people in the theater that I did not know (probably HG employees or other employees of Funimation and the sort), were making comments like "why do the women look like they're in a circus?" Other comments that followed were "How much did we pay for this?" and "Who do they plan to show this to?" These weren't from Macross Purists, I assure you. These were people with a raw, unbiased outlook on RTSC. I'm sure Maverick thinks these people are stupid, too, even though they probably have lives that have accomplished more than being a moderator and dud podcaster. I'm sure the HG staff would love to know who those people were that made those comments, so they can stalk them, but those comments have been shared by others I know who aren't in the "know" about debates, and all that.

On a sidenote, for anyone living in the SoCAL area, I'm trying to set up a hangout/get together lunch thing. It's in the fan gathering/convention threads. If interested, it's open to everyone. Details are there.

[VFTF1]

If people donate the money for a plane ticket - count me in! I've never been to Southern California! There was actually a brief time in my life, back when it looked like I might actually finish college and go on to grad school, that I was gonna visit Malibu - but alas...it was not to be I've been pulled eastward ever since!

As for those comments - that's not surprising. I think Shadow Chronicles can be chalked up the same dynamic that the LAM can - namely the nostalgia craze. But, in the case of the Shadow Chronciles - it was the Nostalgia craze + the Boom. By the time the LAM rolled around, the Boom was gone - thus it's harder to get crazy stuff like this off the ground for them....

Pete

[Gubaba]

Okay, judging from Memo's responses, it looks like Mav was...um, trying to do a parody of Seto? Something like that?

I dunno. I don't get it.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Gubaba

[Jasonc]

Looks like Mav is trying to pad his idiotic remark with Memo's assumption. It seems to go like this (improvised for those that don't "understand" Shadow Chronicles)

Maverick: Robotech Shadow Chronicles is so cerebral, anybody who doesn't like it and doesn't understand it is stupid. It's so cerebral, I can't even understand it's depth.

Memo: DUDE, WHAT YOU TALKING BOUT. I DON'T LIKE M7, BUT YOU THROWN ME OFF WITH THAT CERBRAL TALK

Maverick: That's cause I'm trying to be super cerebral here in my explanation, I don't even understand it yet, but I'm gonna dedicate my life to understanding it.

Memo: HEHEHE, YOU TRYING TO BE LIKE SETO? IF THAT WHAT YOU DOING, I UNDERSTAND, NOT M7.

Maverick: Um, yeah, OK. That's what I was trying to do all this time. Forget what I said before. That's what I always meant to say. I was doing a parody of Seto, cause I want to flatter him. Did it work? Seto, call me in the morning.

OK, that wasn't a parody, that was just calling it for what it is.

[Gubaba]

Looks like Mav is trying to pad his idiotic remark with Memo's assumption. It seems to go like this (improvised for those that don't "understand" Shadow Chronicles)

Maverick: Robotech Shadow Chronicles is so cerebral, anybody who doesn't like it and doesn't understand it is stupid. It's so cerebral, I can't even understand it's depth.

Memo: DUDE, WHAT YOU TALKING BOUT. I DON'T LIKE M7, BUT YOU THROWN ME OFF WITH THAT CERBRAL TALK

Maverick: That's cause I'm trying to be super cerebral here in my explanation, I don't even understand it yet, but I'm gonna dedicate my life to understanding it.

Memo: HEHEHE, YOU TRYING TO BE LIKE SETO? IF THAT WHAT YOU DOING, I UNDERSTAND, NOT M7.

Maverick: Um, yeah, OK. That's what I was trying to do all this time. Forget what I said before. That's what I always meant to say. I was doing a parody of Seto, cause I want to flatter him. Did it work? Seto, call me in the morning.

OK, that wasn't a parody, that was just calling it for what it is.

*sigh*

You're probably right.

Guess I've just not smart enough to match wits with Maverick...

[Seto Kaiba]

yes, take a drink every time there's an ass or boob shot =]

So, death by alcohol poisoning within the first 30 minutes?

That's a good one...I say take a drink every time you think, "Man, isn't there something more worthwhile I could be doing with my time...?"

Otherwise known as "drink the whole bottle before the opening theme finishes".

What I found quite interesting, was that many people in the theater that I did not know (probably HG employees or other employees of Funimation and the sort), were making comments like "why do the women look like they're in a circus?" Other comments that followed were "How much did we pay for this?" and "Who do they plan to show this to?

Not surprising... I've heard similar remarks from other people who attended those screenings.

Okay, judging from Memo's responses, it looks like Mav was...um, trying to do a parody of Seto? Something like like?

Oh, is that what that was supposed to be? If he was trying to parody me, he did a pretty pathetic job of it... I don't think anyone actually got what he was trying to do without being told, and even then the only person who thought it was clever or funny in any way was MEMO. All told, when you stop to consider his behavior on JT's blog, his own podcast, and the forums he visits, this latest pathetic dig at me is a good deal more mature than his usual fare. I guess we could say it's a step in the right direction that he hasn't started in with the "how many dicks did you have to suck to get respected on MacrossWorld" again.

Honestly, the way Maverick_LSC acts makes it extremely difficult for me to believe he's supposed to be a grown man who's trying to start a family. Between his penis fixation and his internet tough guy routine, I'd have a much easier time believing he was a petulant 14 year old. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this sort of behavior is the real reason his wife treats his anime habit as something shameful. She's probably afraid that if he starts talking about it in front of their friends he'll start acting like he does online.

Memo: HEHEHE, YOU TRYING TO BE LIKE SETO? IF THAT WHAT YOU DOING, I UNDERSTAND, NOT M7.

Maverick: Um, yeah, OK. That's what I was trying to do all this time. Forget what I said before. That's what I always meant to say. I was doing a parody of Seto, cause I want to flatter him. Did it work? Seto, call me in the morning.

OK, that wasn't a parody, that was just calling it for what it is.

Dammit Jason... now I'm gonna be afraid to go to sleep tonight...

Edited February 24, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Jasonc]

Dammit Jason... now I'm gonna be afraid to go to sleep tonight...

Be afraid, be VERY afraid. If anything, it does show that Maverick does have a true fondness for you. Imagine how it'll be when you break his heart?!?!

[Saraphys]

Well, feck me...

All of a sudden I have the overwhelming urge to rip out Mav's spine and beat him to death with it. Im sure it has something to do with that hick attitude of his in regards to anything non-american english...

[Seto Kaiba]

Be afraid, be VERY afraid. If anything, it does show that Maverick does have a true fondness for you. Imagine how it'll be when you break his heart?!?!

Gee Jason, thanks for boosting the creepiness factor of Maverick_LSC's sick obsession with me and JT from "obnoxiously juvenile" to "Michael Jackson". Now I'm gonna have to mine my front yard to make damn sure he stays away. (On the plus side, the minefield should also deter my neighbors from letting their dogs use my lawn as a toilet)

All of a sudden I have the overwhelming urge to rip out Mav's spine and beat him to death with it. Im sure it has something to do with that hick attitude of his in regards to anything non-american english...

Honestly dude, I don't know why you're surprised. It's pretty much business as usual for Robotech die-hards to think that America is the be-all end-all of world culture and that nothing foreign is worth their notice, particularly where Macross is concerned.

[Gubaba]

Honestly dude, I don't know why you're surprised. It's pretty much business as usual for Robotech die-hards to think that America is the be-all end-all of world culture and that nothing foreign is worth their notice, particularly where Macross is concerned.

Enh, that's not what he's saying, really. I just posted a link to an Amazon.co.jp Listmania giving all the Macross novels, and for some reason, Mav thought they were comic books. Dunno why.

[Seto Kaiba]

Enh, that's not what he's saying, really. I just posted a link to an Amazon.co.jp Listmania giving all the Macross novels, and for some reason, Mav thought they were comic books. Dunno why.

Eh, I'd lump that under "considering it beneath their notice".

[Pizza the Hutt]

I was banned cause Steve Yun had a crab up his @ss, and I decided to make a point of how ridiculous his censoring was.

My bad,I meant on Memo's site RtX unless Steve had a hand in that site too.And Memo told me that Anyone who is banned once is allowed back on with a warning after a month (Hear that Seto,HP,Viper?) and the second time is now perma-ban at RT.com but that is a lie because alot who was banned are not unbanned.

Seto

If Maverick is imitating you then that is better than him wanting to kick your teeth out like dougbendo and beat up by WDKeiser,right? and why would Maverick want to impersonate you if you are a evil person who likes to make people suffer because you suffer (according to his reason for banning you at rt.com)

Why is Robotech fandom resorting to trolling and insults more these days?,I repeat,I am ashamed I ran with that herd of @ss clowns.Just hope Macross fans dont cut me off like they did.

[Jasonc]

Well, feck me...

All of a sudden I have the overwhelming urge to rip out Mav's spine and beat him to death with it. Im sure it has something to do with that hick attitude of his in regards to anything non-american english...

You're talking about a complete imecile with absolutely no idea of anything that goes on outside of Robotech. Seeing him try to write like he actually does no what is going on is more for kicks. I wouldn't even bother trying to correct his remarks. If it doesn't say Robotech in the subject, his brain is shut down.

[Saraphys]

Enh, that's not what he's saying, really. I just posted a link to an Amazon.co.jp Listmania giving all the Macross novels, and for some reason, Mav thought they were comic books. Dunno why.

Eh, I'd lump that under "considering it beneath their notice".

Actually, your both right...

The fact that Mav took one look and assumed those titles were "comics" (i'll take a wild stab and say its because of the cover art), then proceeds to impliment that classic superior hick-american attitude (or maybe thats just too much RT-poo-eating?) and brush it off like it was nothing...

Y'know, i hear/read alot of flak how Australians are still considered quite racist... well, apparently no-one ever looked at Robotech fans...

[Gubaba]

Actually, your both right...

The fact that Mav took one look and assumed those titles were "comics" (i'll take a wild stab and say its because of the cover art), then proceeds to impliment that classic superior hick-american attitude (or maybe thats just too much RT-poo-eating?) and brush it off like it was nothing...

Y'know, i hear/read alot of flak how Australians are still considered quite racist... well, apparently no-one ever looked at Robotech fans...

Well...there's also the fact that Mav is from Canada, not from the States.

[Gubaba]

Why is Robotech fandom resorting to trolling and insults more these days?

Good question, Pizza. Good question.

[Funkenstein]

Well...there's also the fact that Mav is from Canada, not from the States.

That makes it even worse.

[Seto Kaiba]

[...] Memo told me that Anyone who is banned once is allowed back on with a warning after a month (Hear that Seto,HP,Viper?) and the second time is now perma-ban at RT.com

Now, if that's true it speaks volumes about the increasing desperation with which Harmony Gold is trying to maintain order and silence dissent in the Robotech fandom. As to why, we can only speculate. I know Tommy Yune and Harmony Gold have never responded well to criticism, though at one point Maverick_LSC tried to convince me that the reason he was cracking down on criticism of Shadow Chronicles because Warner Bros was keeping an eye on Robotech.com and Harmony Gold wanted to make a good impression.

If Maverick is imitating you then that is better than him wanting to kick your teeth out like dougbendo and beat up by WDKeiser,right? and why would Maverick want to impersonate you if you are a evil person who likes to make people suffer because you suffer (according to his reason for banning you at rt.com)

Eh, this is pretty weak tea compared to his usual antics... he's been posting some seriously juvenile stuff over on JT's blog and elsewhere. He thinks this weak crap is going annoy me and cause people to take what I have to say less seriously... and boy is he wrong.

You're talking about a complete imecile with absolutely no idea of anything that goes on outside of Robotech. Seeing him try to write like he actually does no what is going on is more for kicks. I wouldn't even bother trying to correct his remarks. If it doesn't say Robotech in the subject, his brain is shut down.

To be fair, Maverick_LSC doesn't know that much about what's going on inside Robotech either. He likes to pretend that he does, with the same old lines about how he talks to Kevin McKeever and gets all kinds of inside info that he's not allowed to share or talk about. It's bullshit, pure and simple. Like MEMO, he doesn't really know much about the Robotech story either.

Well...there's also the fact that Mav is from Canada, not from the States.

Eh, I suppose it should be expressed in more general terms. Instead of "Americanized", maybe just "Westernized". Of course, from my standpoint living as close to Canada as I do, we tend to think of the great frozen north as an informal 51st state.

[Pizza the Hutt]

Seto

Maverick_LSC tried to convince me that the reason he was cracking down on criticism of Shadow Chroniclesbecause Warner Bros was keeping an eye on Robotech.com and Harmony Gold wanted to make a good impression.

Harmony Fold wanted to make a good impression? gee thats a first, And this might come as a shock to those who thot I was a Shadow Chronicles-aholic, a few months ago I read some parts of Prelude TTSC and then noticed that they are almost cut and paste of the old Waltrip Sentinels comics,,,COME ON! I was like so disappointed that Tommy did not make his story original and the fact that it seems Tommy and the Waltrips recycled old comics and made it new by adding color.

And Seto, Mav lied,because if what Memo said is true then WB is going to base the movies on all 3 episodes not SC,so Mavs fears are unfounded.What is funny is that Mav said that WB is making Robotech the "tentpole" but no proof of that crap he said. I checked WB.com and nada on Robotech so he is a liar.

[RDClip]

Well...there's also the fact that Mav is from Canada, not from the States.

Eeewww, get that weirdo asshat out of my country. He's ruining the good reputation we've been building since 1867

Edited February 24, 2010 by RDClip

[Gubaba]

Seto

Harmony Fold wanted to make a good impression? gee thats a first, And this might come as a shock to those who thot I was a Shadow Chronicles-aholic, a few months ago I read some parts of Prelude TTSC and then noticed that they are almost cut and paste of the old Waltrip Sentinels comics,,,COME ON! I was like so disappointed that Tommy did not make his story original and the fact that it seems Tommy and the Waltrips recycled old comics and made it new by adding color.

But you DO like the movie, correct? And thought it was better than "that farce Frontier," right?

So what did you find appealing about it? I'm genuinely curious.

And Seto, Mav lied,because if what Memo said is true then WB is going to base the movies on all 3 episodes not SC,so Mavs fears are unfounded.What is funny is that Mav said that WB is making Robotech the "tentpole" but no proof of that crap he said. I checked WB.com and nada on Robotech so he is a liar.

I prefer to think that he's not DELIBERATELY lying, it's just "magical thinking."

[VFTF1]

But you DO like the movie, correct? And thought it was better than "that farce Frontier," right?

So what did you find appealing about it? I'm genuinely curious.

I am too - although; honestly - I see no point in comparing it to Macross: Frontier.

That's actually so pointlessly random. Of course, if you're a Macross fan, then chances are you'll prefer Macross Frontier to Shadow Chronciles because it's MACROSS.

I would wager that a Macross fan who normally doesn't like Macross 7 would prefer it to Shadow Chronicles just because it's Macross.

I don't see the point of comparing the two. I know we've done it a lot - but only because people like Doug Bendo kept making the comparisson - or people like that one dude who wrote that idiotic "10 reasons why Robotech is better than Macross" list... and usually the comparissons were bad NOT because they argued for Shadow Chronicles.... but mainly because they demonstrated a total lack of knowledge about Macross.

It's actually quite difficult to compare two things when you have no clue about one of them.

So for now - I'd be happy if someone explained what they like about Shadow Chronicles rather than jump to the far harder task of comparing it to MF.

Pete

[Seto Kaiba]

a few months ago I read some parts of Prelude TTSC and then noticed that they are almost cut and paste of the old Waltrip Sentinels comics,,,COME ON! I was like so disappointed that Tommy did not make his story original and the fact that it seems Tommy and the Waltrips recycled old comics and made it new by adding color.

Well, to be precise, it's a safe bet that what Tommy Yune was trying to accomplish by having the Robotech: Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles miniseries pick up right where Robotech II: the Sentinels Book 4 left off a decade or so before was to give the book added appeal by tying into and resolving the cliffhanger left by Academy's abrupt loss of the Robotech license. To that end, he basically did a brief recap of the last issue of Sentinels Book IV and then ran with it in an ill-conceived attempt to link the failed Sentinels series with Shadow Chronicles.

All he really achieved by doing so was producing another confused, badly written story that renders the horrible old RT2 comics at least pseudo-canon... a nightmare for anyone attempting to resolve the continuity into anything meaningful.

But you DO like the movie, correct? And thought it was better than "that farce Frontier," right?

So what did you find appealing about it? I'm genuinely curious.

Honestly, I'm curious to know that too... I've yet to find someone who could actually explain why they liked RTSC, and not just why they think Macross Frontier is worse than it.

[Gubaba]

I am too - although; honestly - I see no point in comparing it to Macross: Frontier.

That's actually so pointlessly random. Of course, if you're a Macross fan, then chances are you'll prefer Macross Frontier to Shadow Chronciles because it's MACROSS.

I would wager that a Macross fan who normally doesn't like Macross 7 would prefer it to Shadow Chronicles just because it's Macross.

I don't see the point of comparing the two. I know we've done it a lot - but only because people like Doug Bendo kept making the comparisson - or people like that one dude who wrote that idiotic "10 reasons why Robotech is better than Macross" list... and usually the comparissons were bad NOT because they argued for Shadow Chronicles.... but mainly because they demonstrated a total lack of knowledge about Macross.

It's actually quite difficult to compare two things when you have no clue about one of them.

So for now - I'd be happy if someone explained what they like about Shadow Chronicles rather than jump to the far harder task of comparing it to MF.

Pete

Good point, but since it was originally Pizza who brought up the comparison, I'm just wondering what his follow-through is. Generally, in these comparisons, they get compared negatively: "Shadow Chronicles is better because Frontier is 'full of boredom and hentai.'" "Shadow Chronicles is better because it doesn't have naked 12-year-old girls." "Shadow Chronicles is better because Frontier is just a rehash of the original Macross series."

Pizza declared many, many times that he liked Shadow Chronicles better than Frontier. I can't believe that he changed his mind just because Memo banned him (just as, if were banned from here, I might get mad at the mods, but I wouldn't become a Robotech fan), so I'm curious as to why he thinks Shadow Chronicles is such a great movie, and what he thinks it did better than Frontier.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Gubaba

[Einherjar]

It's hard to make a fair comparison between Shadow Chronicles and Frontier because one of them hasn't even been completed story-wise yet. One of the advantages Shadow Chronicles has is the potential of where the story could go from here. One of the big selling points people make are thinking of are improving all the weak points that critical people made about the first one and bringing back the epic-ness of the whole thing. But that potential will probably always be better or more ambitious than what the continuation actually turns out to be, if it even comes out. Come on, it's HG. And since a lot of people have been doing this for a long time, aren't they setting themselves to be disappointed as time goes on?

Of course with people like MEMO and Mav, they willingly put themselves in the position. They're still waiting patiently for HG to vindicate them for all the crazy things they've been saying about Robotech for all these years. If they insist in making those holes they're digging themselves into deeper than they already are, let them.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Einherjar

[Pizza the Hutt]

Seto Kaiba

Honestly, I'm curious to know that too... I've yet to find someone who could actually explain why they liked RTSC,

I did not know I was challenged on this since I ignore Gubaba's post,,I be glad to explain why I like it Seto, Because I thot that it was a nice move to introduce an original enemy into Robotech and think it was a move in the right direction and step to start doing things original,Example the Haydonites and The Awareness.I did notice some corny parts like Maia's purple hair and eyes,No dead bodies on the ship Janice was found on, Rick Hunter looked like He-Man with gray hair,Lunk,Sera and Lancer no where.But I like the combat battles and the new cyclone used by Grant and how they tricked the Haydonites by sacrificing the Liberty station.But the main point was that maybe Robotech was finally in the direction of originality.I guess I can like things that are not meant to be liked,After all I like Masters saga too.

laters,

Pete

[Gubaba]

Seto Kaiba

I did not know I was challenged on this since I ignore Gubaba's post,,

Really? So I can say anything I like and you'll never know? Ooh, tempting...

I be glad to explain why I like it Seto, Because I thot that it was a nice move to introduce an original enemy into Robotech and think it was a move in the right direction and step to start doing things original,Example the Haydonites and The Awareness.

Original? By whose standard? You often complained that Frontier "ripped off" Battlestar Galactica, but then praise Shadow Chronicles for introducing a race of mechanical beings who initially foil the humans by installing a back door into the human technology that allows the machine race to shut it all down?

I did notice some corny parts like Maia's purple hair and eyes,No dead bodies on the ship Janice was found on, Rick Hunter looked like He-Man with gray hair,Lunk,Sera and Lancer no where.

I don't understand why you call any of that "corny." Bad design decisions, sure. But corny...?

But I like the combat battles and the new cyclone used by Grant and how they tricked the Haydonites by sacrificing the Liberty station.But the main point was that maybe Robotech was finally in the direction of originality.I guess I can like things that are not meant to be liked,After all I like Masters saga too.

I guess I can't see what was so "original" about it. It all seemed very generic to me.

[VFTF1]

I'm confused again. I thought the bad guys in Shadow Chronicles were the Haydonites? And they are not original - because they were in the novels... maybe it's "original" that they turned out bad?

As to the rest - ok - not much to argue with there.

But you sound about as enthusiastic as I'd sound if I were asked "what do you like about Inhumanoids?" ... I'd answer...the general concept was cool and I liked the tree dudes, and I even had the toys of the monsters ...the trees...the transforming rock...and Tendril...although I always wanted the one with the rib cage. But the humans had the stupidest armor suits on - and I never could get that much int the plot although that one lady was there or something...

...

In other words - it's like...it sounds like you watched it half asleep. To put it another way: Shadow Chronciles can be watched with some beer and pizza to pass the time.

Ok.

No point arguing with that.

But when I REALLY like something (Gurren Lagann, Evangelion etc) - I can go on for hours about why it's the coolest thing in the universe.

If the above reason is the full brunt of Robotech enthusiasm amongst Robotech fans...well...

Pete