HG and Robotech Debates

[Keith]

Tommy Yune doesn't need to answer this question, as HG has already quite suffuciently answered it themselves:

-Robotech II: The Sentinels ~ Completely changed character designs for Macross characters, very reminiscent designs for Mospeada & Southern Cross characters, only Mospeada & Southern Cross mecha are used.

-Robotech 3000 ~ Rip-off Exosquad & Voltron 3D much???

-Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles ~ Completely changed character designs for Macross characters, very reminiscent designs for Mospeada & Southern Cross characters, only Mospeada mecha was used. And now there is a total aversion to terms like "Zentradi" being switched to "aliens," with a b s o l u t e l y "NO" mention of Macross events whatever in the prelude of the movie (not to be confused with the prelude comic which counts as merch). And going by the "making of" featurette, it appears that HG is even too afraid to include Macross stock footage, as the show was not only "not mentioned," but also completely ignored with only Mospeada being refrenced on screen.

Actions afterall speak louder than words.

[Jasonc]

Speaking of the "Birth of a Sequel" documentary, during the interviews, there is a part where someone is cosplaying as a Valkyrie. His entire interview was deleted out of the documentary due to the Macross cosplay. They'd probably say that it was some other reason, but I remember being there during the interview, and afterward. Anyways, as the saying goes, to talk the talk, you should walk the walk.

[Einherjar]

Speaking of the "Birth of a Sequel" documentary, during the interviews, there is a part where someone is cosplaying as a Valkyrie. His entire interview was deleted out of the documentary due to the Macross cosplay. They'd probably say that it was some other reason, but I remember being there during the interview, and afterward. Anyways, as the saying goes, to talk the talk, you should walk the walk.

So, perhaps, it's really been them who have been quaking in their boots for years on end. Shadow Chronicles was the "Birth of a Lawyer-Friendly Sequel."

[Seto Kaiba]

So, perhaps, it's really been them who have been quaking in their boots for years on end. Shadow Chronicles was the "Birth of a Lawyer-Friendly Sequel."

I can already hear Maverick's frantic screams of "HERESY!".

[taksraven]

So, perhaps, it's really been them who have been quaking in their boots for years on end. Shadow Chronicles was the "Birth of a Lawyer-Friendly Sequel."

I pointed this out aaaages ago and I am sure that others have too. It was the fact that the Invid were shown the door as quickly as possible.......

(HG THINKS "Out go the villians that we do not really completely own!!")

.............and the Haydonites quickly take centre stage as the bad guys.

(HG THINKS: "In come the villians that ARE completely owned and controlled by us. BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA!!!! We are one step closer to being free of the Japanese and masters of our own evil destiny, HAHAHAHAHAHAH Now, if we only had somebody who could create some decent new veritechs that don't look like VALKS or Alphas or Betas, we could use them and RULE THE WHOLE WORLD WITH THE GREATEST SF EPIC EVER!!!!!!!!")

Or something like that.....

Taksraven

[HappyPenguins]

I pointed this out aaaages ago and I am sure that others have too. It was the fact that the Invid were shown the door as quickly as possible.......

(HG THINKS "Out go the villians that we do not really completely own!!")

.............and the Haydonites quickly take centre stage as the bad guys.

(HG THINKS: "In come the villians that ARE completely owned and controlled by us. BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA!!!! We are one step closer to being free of the Japanese and masters of our own evil destiny, HAHAHAHAHAHAH Now, if we only had somebody who could create some decent new veritechs that don't look like VALKS or Alphas or Betas, we could use them and RULE THE WHOLE WORLD WITH THE GREATEST SF EPIC EVER!!!!!!!!")

Or something like that.....

Taksraven

hell they can just steal designs from Astro Plan

[Freiflug88]

And going by the "making of" featurette, it appears that HG is even too afraid to include Macross stock footage, as the show was not only "not mentioned," but also completely ignored with only Mospeada being refrenced on screen.

Actions afterall speak louder than words.

My favorite was when the consulting director himself said: " I just love how those missiles, I just love how they were animated." Then he Imiates the iconic Itano circus swirl with his fingers, but they instead insert Mosepeda footage of a missile scene that had zero itano circus movements.

And we all know how their is only one thing that speaks louder then missiles.

Speaking of the "Birth of a Sequel" documentary, during the interviews, there is a part where someone is cosplaying as a Valkyrie. His entire interview was deleted out of the documentary due to the Macross cosplay.

That reminds me isn't it telling how there is a handful of fans on both sides Robotech and Original series that cosplay as "X" person/mecha seen in the original 85, but there is yet to be seen even a single RTSC cosplay. I mean there are a few floating Sharon Apple and Seele boxes cosplays floating around, but its funny how no one in the Robotech fandom, which is supposedly bigger and better then Macross's or Evangelion's ever was, has yet to produce a simple "floating torso in a cape" cosply in what over 3 years since the Haydonites were shown to fans through RTSC trailers.

It is a blessing though that HG hasn't decided to screw their family friendly image and hire booth babes to cosplay as the RTSC girls. Just look at how Funimation's had huge success selling the mediocre Witchblade and Dragonnaut series to American fans solely by marketing T&A for the series, heck Witchblade became the best selling anime in America for 2008 from what I heard.

[BeyondTheGrave]

It is a blessing though that HG hasn't decided to screw their family friendly image and hire booth babes to cosplay as the RTSC girls. Just look at how Funimation's had huge success selling the mediocre Witchblade and Dragonnaut series to American fans solely by marketing T&A for the series, heck Witchblade became the best selling anime in America for 2008 from what I heard.

Funimation will milk a series till your sick of it, has a horrible release schedule, uses same 3 va's in everything which can create sub-par dubs. that and nothing came out in 2008.

[Einherjar]

Haydonites, you mean the Sharon Apple look alikes, right?

It is a blessing though that HG hasn't decided to screw their family friendly image and hire booth babes to cosplay as the RTSC girls. Just look at how Funimation's had huge success selling the mediocre Witchblade and Dragonnaut series to American fans solely by marketing T&A for the series, heck Witchblade became the best selling anime in America for 2008 from what I heard.

Their franchise already had a lot of violence for a cartoon even before the secondary material. However, I did not know the influence of horny animators working on Shadow Chronicles was family friendly.

[Jasonc]

Man, what're you talking about??? Boobs are family friendly. Children rely on milk, and boobs provide that for young, growing infants. How much more family friendly can you get?

[Seto Kaiba]

It is a blessing though that HG hasn't decided to screw their family friendly image and hire booth babes to cosplay as the RTSC girls.

Considering the content of some of their past products and some of their more recent creative decisions, Harmony Gold's insistence that all things Robotech be kept as kid-friendly as humanly possible just comes off as downright bizarre. It really makes you wonder if their right hand doesn't know what their left hand is doing, or if they're just in denial now that the overwhelming majority of Robotech fans old enough to buy their own liquor. It's one thing to want to keep your brand family-friendly, but it's entirely another to say that and then turn around and sell your next product on the basis of how every woman in it is proportioned like a bong with two watermelons nailed to it, wears a "uniform" that looks like it came out of an aerosol can, and has enough cleavage on display to hide a small starship in. A little on the hypocritical side, isn't is? Especially after they put a lot of time, money, and effort into remastering the "original series", reinserting all the nudity and sexual innuendo they'd originally edited out...

Amusingly enough, even that's rather tame compared to the content of the old Robotech novels and comics, which occasionally flirted with things like foul language, gory death, and graphic depictions of sex. Hell, the old Robotech II: the Sentinels comics showed Max bringing a stripper to Rick's bachelor party, showing the aftermath of Rick and Lisa consummating their marriage and taking a shower together, accusing Rick of cheating on Lisa with Minmay, having Lynn Minmay dress like a whore and entertain herself by sleeping around (incl. with Jonathan Wolfe, a married man), and a female saboteur who had sex with soldiers for supplies and then murdered them... and that's just the tip of the iceberg (all but the last item are in Book 1 of 4).

[Moly_Sigang]

hell they can just steal designs from Astro Plan

So your saying HG should rip off Astro Plan, which is a rip off of Macross Frontier, which according to RT.com denizens, is a rip off of the original Macross, which itself, as they also claim, is a rip off of Yamato?

That reminds me isn't it telling how there is a handful of fans on both sides Robotech and Original series that cosplay as "X" person/mecha seen in the original 85, but there is yet to be seen even a single RTSC cosplay. I mean there are a few floating Sharon Apple and Seele boxes cosplays floating around, but its funny how no one in the Robotech fandom, which is supposedly bigger and better then Macross's or Evangelion's ever was, has yet to produce a simple "floating torso in a cape" cosply in what over 3 years since the Haydonites were shown to fans through RTSC trailers.

That also made me think, even though Macross Frontier never got broadcasted in the west, yet you can see a few Macross Frontier cosplayers in Anime cons. If you compare that to what HG claim that RTSC was a big success that brought new fans into Robotech, yet the RTSC cosplayers are almost none existent.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Moly_Sigang

[VFTF1]

It's not just the lack of Robotech cosplay that is indicative that nobody really loves Robotech.

Note the TOTAL lack of fans showing off their Robotech toy collection. I remember when I first opened a youtube link to Doug Bendo talking about something...I thought that since we saw HIM, we'd see his Robotech collection. I mean - when a Transformer fan yammers on about TFs on youtube - he's usually surrounded by them...

Macross fans - as evidenced by our toy forums - manage to have huge collections....

Robotech fans don't seem to really care.

Pete

[Robelwell202]

<<< IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT >>>

Well, according to this, I'm not a Robotech fan, any more.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...0695&cmd=tc

It seems that, according to the world's Number One Robtech Fan, I don't meet the minimum requirements to be in the elite clique that all of us aspire to.

I've been kicked out!

What, you ask, would be my response to this startling, earth-shattering revelation? Well, I suppose I could bawl my eyes out, crying over lost protoculture, or I could engage in rightous, indignant rage over being targeted by this idiot... Hell, I could even entertain the idea of showing up on his podcast, and troll his a$$ all over the place.

But... None of these apply.

Since my RL job has gotten more active (Yeah! I'm getting descent hours, now!), and I've sworn off the RT internet drama, I really have no reaction whatsoever.

So, with this being said, I have a question. Any room for an exiled former RT fan in the Macross Purist camp?

Edited February 6, 2010 by Robelwell202

[Gubaba]

[so, with this being said, I have a question. Any room for an exiled former RT fan in the Macross Purist camp?

I dunno...do you like naked 12-year-old girls? 'Cause it seems that there's something in the Macross Purist Rulebook about that.

[Funkenstein]

Im going to have to disagree with Witchblade being mediocre. It sexualized the violence more so than the people. It was a very unconventional show (though not if you're an avid reader of comic books). It basically turned the moe magical girl on its head by having a super powered character that gets sexual gratification from "blowing poo up" . Though, Dragonaut had a terrible story that went nowhere.

[Jasonc]

<<< IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT >>>

Well, according to this, I'm not a Robotech fan, any more.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...0695&cmd=tc

It seems that, according to the world's Number One Robtech Fan, I don't meet the minimum requirements to be in the elite clique that all of us aspire to.

I've been kicked out!

What, you ask, would be my response to this startling, earth-shattering revelation? Well, I suppose I could bawl my eyes out, crying over lost protoculture, or I could engage in rightous, indignant rage over being targeted by this idiot... Hell, I could even entertain the idea of showing up on his podcast, and troll his a$$ all over the place.

But... None of these apply.

Since my RL job has gotten more active (Yeah! I'm getting descent hours, now!), and I've sworn off the RT internet drama, I really have no reaction whatsoever.

So, with this being said, I have a question. Any room for an exiled former RT fan in the Macross Purist camp

Hahaha, why even give him any credit for determining anything? If he spoke with any form of intelligence, then I'd be more inclined to debate it, but you're talking about someone who hasn't been able to hold much of an argument for the better part of his "career" in Robotech. It's just a boy who's still trying to fight a lost war, and in doing so, is isolating his franchise even more, leaving it for only the most obscure of fanatics.

I say, let him be, and leave him to destroy his own franchise and cause. To question another's fandom is one thing. To dictate who is and isn't a fan is simply ignorant, and stupid, and fits right into lil dougie's way of thinking.

[Robelwell202]

JasonC wrote:

Hahaha, why even give him any credit for determining anything? If he spoke with any form of intelligence, then I'd be more inclined to debate it, but you're talking about someone who hasn't been able to hold much of an argument for the better part of his "career" in Robotech. It's just a boy who's still trying to fight a lost war, and in doing so, is isolating his franchise even more, leaving it for only the most obscure of fanatics.

I say, let him be, and leave him to destroy his own franchise and cause. To question another's fandom is one thing. To dictate who is and isn't a fan is simply ignorant, and stupid, and fits right into lil dougie's way of thinking.

Oh, of course... It's a complete joke, and for me to say that is being extremely polite.

In all honesty, though, I'm absolving myself of the crap. With work picking upfor me, the sensitive nature of my work (School Bus Driver), and the overload status of my BS meter, lately, I'm dropping the RT drama like a plagued rat.

It's no longer worth my time, and I'm not the type of person who'll self-induce an ulcer just to sing the praises of an animated show. I like it, but not THAT much...

Gubaba wrote:

I dunno...do you like naked 12-year-old girls? 'Cause it seems that there's something in the Macross Purist Rulebook about that.

No, but I do like Sheryl Nome in a wicked-bunny outfit... does that count?

Edited February 6, 2010 by Robelwell202

[Gubaba]

No, but I do like Sheryl Nome in a wicked-bunny outfit... does that count?

No, of course not. After all, who doesn't like Sheryl?

Sorry, you're going to have to undergo the Official Macross Hazing Ritual, which involves watching all of Macross 7 in one 27-hour marathon session (no bathroom breaks - a cup will be provided for urination purposes), followed immediately by having to sing the entire "Nyan-Nyan Service Medley (Special Edition)" in front of a huge crowd of drunk, rowdy bikers. Then you have to listen to English Fire!! and the Leon/Grace duet of "Zero-G Love" 36 times in a row. And then we'll ask you to explain the end of Macross Zero in twenty seconds or less.

Then, and ONLY then, can you consider yourself a true Macross Purist.

[Robelwell202]

No, of course not. After all, who doesn't like Sheryl?

Sorry, you're going to have to undergo the Official Macross Hazing Ritual, which involves watching all of Macross 7 in one 27-hour marathon session (no bathroom breaks - a cup will be provided for urination purposes), followed immediately by having to sing the entire "Nyan-Nyan Service Medley (Special Edition)" in front of a huge crowd of drunk, rowdy bikers. Then you have to listen to English Fire!! and the Leon/Grace duet of "Zero-G Love" 36 times in a row. And then we'll ask you to explain the end of Macross Zero in twenty seconds or less.

Then, and ONLY then, can you consider yourself a true Macross Purist.

dammit...

[Jasonc]

No, of course not. After all, who doesn't like Sheryl?

Sorry, you're going to have to undergo the Official Macross Hazing Ritual, which involves watching all of Macross 7 in one 27-hour marathon session (no bathroom breaks - a cup will be provided for urination purposes), followed immediately by having to sing the entire "Nyan-Nyan Service Medley (Special Edition)" in front of a huge crowd of drunk, rowdy bikers. Then you have to listen to English Fire!! and the Leon/Grace duet of "Zero-G Love" 36 times in a row. And then we'll ask you to explain the end of Macross Zero in twenty seconds or less.

Then, and ONLY then, can you consider yourself a true Macross Purist.

Mmmmm, shun the darkness, and enter the light! Although, I think you've already been there. I was just looking through rt.com, and they've made a big deal over this supposed design debate thing, even though nothing new has been said. They must really be hurting for some kind of "let's get back at Macross for making RT suck." It's funny as hell, but kinda sad when they don't realize that the HG staff, and the elitist fans refuse to look in their own backyard. If HG was smart, they'd start cleaning their own house, and mop up some of the destructive elitist fan rhetoric that's polluted their franchise. Then again, that makes sense, and why would they do something that makes sense?

[Gubaba]

Mmmmm, shun the darkness, and enter the light! Although, I think you've already been there. I was just looking through rt.com, and they've made a big deal over this supposed design debate thing, even though nothing new has been said. They must really be hurting for some kind of "let's get back at Macross for making RT suck." It's funny as hell, but kinda sad when they don't realize that the HG staff, and the elitist fans refuse to look in their own backyard. If HG was smart, they'd start cleaning their own house, and mop up some of the destructive elitist fan rhetoric that's polluted their franchise. Then again, that makes sense, and why would they do something that makes sense?

I'm just surprised they haven't cracked down on ol' Dougie for calling his site "The Official Podcast Headquarters of the Robotech Universe."

[taksraven]

I'm just surprised they haven't cracked down on ol' Dougie for calling his site "The Official Podcast Headquarters of the Robotech Universe."

They know better than to cease and desist their own morons?? Maybe??

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

They know better than to cease and desist their own morons?? Maybe??

Taksraven

Just like Lucasfilm doesn't crush http://www.supershadow.com/ like a grape...?

[HappyPenguins]

<<< IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT >>>

Well, according to this, I'm not a Robotech fan, any more.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...0695&cmd=tc

It seems that, according to the world's Number One Robtech Fan, I don't meet the minimum requirements to be in the elite clique that all of us aspire to.

I've been kicked out!

What, you ask, would be my response to this startling, earth-shattering revelation? Well, I suppose I could bawl my eyes out, crying over lost protoculture, or I could engage in rightous, indignant rage over being targeted by this idiot... Hell, I could even entertain the idea of showing up on his podcast, and troll his a$ all over the place.

But... None of these apply.

Since my RL job has gotten more active (Yeah! I'm getting descent hours, now!), and I've sworn off the RT internet drama, I really have no reaction whatsoever.

So, with this being said, I have a question. Any room for an exiled former RT fan in the Macross Purist camp?

He really needs to shut the fart up and let the poo go.

you havent bothered him, yet he still feels the need to target you and JT, because hes so god damn pathetic and has nothing better to do with his life. What a waste eh? I say just keep ignoring him... he's bound to get bored of it sometime right? or is he THAT desperate for attention?

*megafatfacepalm*

[Freiflug88]

Haydonites, you mean the Sharon Apple look alikes, right?

The Sharon Apple box looks alikes. If you think they look anything like the Holographic Sharon Apple Idol then you need to get your eyes checked. As Keith warned watching Robotech on Hulu can lead to ocular herpes.

It's not just the lack of Robotech cosplay that is indicative that nobody really loves Robotech.

Note the TOTAL lack of fans showing off their Robotech toy collection. I remember when I first opened a youtube link to Doug Bendo talking about something...I thought that since we saw HIM, we'd see his Robotech collection. I mean - when a Transformer fan yammers on about TFs on youtube - he's usually surrounded by them...

Macross fans - as evidenced by our toy forums - manage to have huge collections....

Robotech fans don't seem to really care.

Pete

Well on his myspace page Doug Bendo does show off his Garland toy which is sold on Robotech.com. I wouldn't be surprised if he a half dozen Macross toys though. He has said several times that he has imported and played a number of Macross video games from Japan and that he helped make the Macross/Gundam Mod for Command and Conquer Generals.

Man, what're you talking about??? Boobs are family friendly. Children rely on milk, and boobs provide that for young, growing infants. How much more family friendly can you get?

Flawless logic, except that most of the local LA girls that HG would hire can never breast feed due to complications from plastic surgery.

It basically turned the moe magical girl on its head by having a super powered character that gets sexual gratification from "blowing poo up" . Though, Dragonaut had a terrible story that went nowhere.

Witchblade was an alright show, but it wasn't a must watch show in my book. I will also be the first to admit though that if I never saw the sexy ads I would have never have even bothered watching it in the first place.

And then we'll ask you to explain the end of Macross Zero in twenty seconds or less.

That is so easy.

Mao, a 12yr-old girl naked except for her hospital gown, watches a jet get magically teleported to space.

THE END.

[RedWolf]

That is so easy.

Mao, a 12yr-old girl naked except for her hospital gown, watches a jet get magically teleported to space.

THE END.

11 actually and you still couldn't tell by looking. Then again this was Sheryl's grandma.

[azrael]

So now there's a litmus test for RT fans?

Sorry, you're going to have to undergo the Official Macross Hazing Ritual, which involves watching all of Macross 7 in one 27-hour marathon session (no bathroom breaks - a cup will be provided for urination purposes),

An 8-oz cup. Plenty of Appale Genki will be avaliable. And should you fill that cup before the end of those 27 hours, you will have hold it.

followed immediately by having to sing the entire "Nyan-Nyan Service Medley (Special Edition)" in front of a huge crowd of drunk, rowdy bikers.

Additionally, Simon Cowell will also be there to provide commentary.

Then you have to listen to English Fire!! and the Leon/Grace duet of "Zero-G Love" 36 times in a row.

36-times, per track, in a row. Get it right.

And then we'll ask you to explain the end of Macross Zero in twenty seconds or less.

And in 10 words or less.

Oh and by the way, we normally serve steak, with plenty of salad, and cake for your meal.

[Einherjar]

Well on his myspace page Doug Bendo does show off his Garland toy which is sold on Robotech.com. I wouldn't be surprised if he a half dozen Macross toys though. He has said several times that he has imported and played a number of Macross video games from Japan and that he helped make the Macross/Gundam Mod for Command and Conquer Generals.

The Garland picture on his MySpace/Facebook/Talkshoe pages is not his. It was a picture taken directly from collectiondx.com. The site's logo can be found on the bottom right. Also, if you're talking about the Xenoforce mod for C&C Generals, he did not work on it. He did, however, talk about working on another mod in the same spirit for C&C 4, Xenoforce Reborn. Unfortunately, it turns out it stole unit skins from another mod group without their permission, and the group confronted him during a live show demanding he take them out. The user Star Dragon knows more about it.

[Gubaba]

The Garland picture on his MySpace/Facebook/Talkshoe pages is not his. It was a picture taken directly from collectiondx.com. The site's logo can be found on the bottom right. Also, if you're talking about the Xenoforce mod for C&C Generals, he did not work on it. He did, however, talk about working on another mod in the same spirit for C&C 4, Xenoforce Reborn. Unfortunately, it turns out it stole unit skins from another mod group without their permission, and the group confronted him during a live show demanding he take them out. The user Star Dragon knows more about it.

I believe Star Dragon's also the guy who announced that the SDF-1 is not 1200 meters, as stated, but actually four miles long.

[Seto Kaiba]

So, with this being said, I have a question. Any room for an exiled former RT fan in the Macross Purist camp?

Bah, you haven't been a "real" Robotech fan for ages... you dared to willingly expose yourself to DYRL and other Macross instead of bashing them without having ever seen them like so many Robotech fans are wont to do these days.

Also, if you're talking about the Xenoforce mod for C&C Generals, he did not work on it. He did, however, talk about working on another mod in the same spirit for C&C 4, Xenoforce Reborn.

For the records, thus far nobody has been able to turn up any kind of evidence that he was ever involved in the actual work on that C&C4 mod project.

I believe Star Dragon's also the guy who announced that the SDF-1 is not 1200 meters, as stated, but actually four miles long.

He's one of them, yeah...

[Robelwell202]

Bah, you haven't been a "real" Robotech fan for ages... you dared to willingly expose yourself to DYRL and other Macross instead of bashing them without having ever seen them like so many Robotech fans are wont to do these days.

Oh, hell... I've been found out!

Of course, it didn't hurt that your influence edged me along to DYRL, when I was blissfully and ignorantly happy with Mac+ and Frontier...

It's all your fault!!!

[taksraven]

Pretty much what I expected then, the Disciples of Leonard are pretty quick to jump down the throats of anyone who criticizes the character, so they draw a lot of hostility. I figured he'd got the boot for arguing with them over in Series & Stories, but it looks like he got away with that and then took it too far elsewhere. One would imagine the DoL would've given up after Tommy went one step further than Carl Macek did in making Leonard totally unlikable by not only making him out to be an incompetent leader, a raving megalomaniac, and a rather violent xenophobe, but also a traitor who was secretly working for the Anti-UN in the early years of the UN Gov't.

You would have to hate yourself, and life, pretty badly if you were going to focus too much on that character, make him your favourite and then be unable to accept any criticisms of him.

Only realworld counterpart I can think of for Leonard is Neville Chamberlain, and he has no fans amongst historians. Nobody is that much of a sucker for punishment.

I think that this website is a pisstake on the Leonard thing, but its one of the weirdest RT sites I have ever seen..... (some NSFW language for everybody under the age of ten who hangs around here....) Actually they look like some sort of RT dissenters, maybe Seto can shed some light on this sort of weirdness??

Taksraven

[Gubaba]

Oh, hell... I've been found out!

Of course, it didn't hurt that your influence edged me along to DYRL, when I was blissfully and ignorantly happy with Mac+ and Frontier...

It's all your fault!!!

That better be Robotech Frontier and Mac+: The Sentinels you're talking about...your credibility as a hardcore Robotech fan is evaporating quickly.

[taksraven]

That better be Robotech Frontier and Mac+: The Sentinels you're talking about...your credibility as a hardcore Robotech fan is evaporating quickly.

Who da new cutie in avatar, Gubaba??

Taksraven