HG and Robotech Debates

[Pizza the Hutt]

Uxi

Just because I think that a sensible solution would be for BW and SN to suck it up and stop being butthurt just to get their product to an available market for it doesn't mean I think HG wouldnt'

Uhh,The ones being butt hurt is Harmony Fold,because they know if they make it easy for BW/SN to bring over Macross franchise many,many fans would swarm to get the decent subbed unedited versions of Macross Frontier and Zero and DYRL? and then fans would say "Screw Toynami,,VF-25 here I come,and cheaper too" so more than likely Robotech would be drowned out by the new wave of Macross market worldwide and that would hurt HG's wallet.. I know because as much of a fan I am of Macross,I would gladly buy a Blu-ray of Frontier and DYRL? with proper subs. So HG makes horrible conditions that would make BW/SN say "no" to because from what I read and learned on HG's dirty pull on Macross,HG should be paying Macross to come here.

Oooooh!,,,,, A nickle!

[Einherjar]

Blu-Ray region codes and a tiny little English subtitle function on the discs is all they really need to challenge HG. It's still forcing people to buy Macross from the source, but that small change is enough to make it more accessible to people.

[VFTF1]

Makes me wonder if you ever watched the English Dub of Batman the animated series.

Anyway Hamil is one of the few actors that knows he doesn't have the looks he once had, realizes it and then capitalizes on his other talents.

Hm... well... ok - I'll admit I didn't know he looks like THIS now.. BUT...

This isn't as bad as it looks. First of all - those wrinkles on his forehead? Zap 'em with botox. I mean - come on. On principle, there's nothing wrong with having a beard, but he just looks unkept here. His hair is a mess and he dresses like a honkey.

His nose is slightly disfigured - maybe residue from that car accident? But in a man, that could be attractive and it could give his face a gritty character. In other pictures, his eyes look like they're not doing too well - but again - gritty gritty gritty.

He needs to hire that guy ...what's his name? ... the one Bruno interviewed...the big shot Holywood image man...whatever - ANY image specialist will do.

In these pictures - he looks like he doesn't care what he looks like.

He looks like ME when my girlfriends break up with me.

I remember when my Misa wasn't seeing me for months on end, and suddenly she called me and we went to have chinese food. I looked as I'd looked for the previous few months - baggy smelly drab sweater, hair totally out of wack...tired look in the eyes, unevenly shaved ... basically like Mark Hamil - it's the "I have no more beautiful girlfriend so why should I shower?" look.

Dig it! Mark Hamel could look better. But either his girl friend dumped him (that picture was 2002) or his wealth has made it so that all he does is drink and not sleep.

Or - god forbid - he had health problems?

In either case... a little bit more time at the gym, a nice girl and a good stylist would do wonders for him.

And I STILL am a big Mark Hamil fan nonetheless - just because he was in Star Wars Like I said...that's enough.

Oh - and no - I didn't recall him being Joker - although I did watch the WB Batman... but I think I watched in with a Polish dude dubing over it...talking over it...

errr...

and...

Robotech sucks!

Except the part where Mark Hamil says something.

Pete

[Seto Kaiba]

I think you're letting the disgruntled robotech.com exile in you override any skills and knowledge you might have as a businessman. "Let go of your hate."

Rest of the tripe aside, the most important factors in Big West and Studio Nue's decision will always be whether or not the terms of the contract are advantageous to them, and whether or not they think the return on investment will be large enough to make it worth their while. As it stands, the anime market over here in the US is so small that it's highly dubious they would make a significant profit on the deal, and because Harmony Gold thinks they have Big West/Studio Nue over a barrel, it's unlikely they're offering mutually advantageous contract terms.

No amount of wishful thinking on your part will change reality. You might not like it, but Big West isn't being unreasonable in refusing to work with Harmony Gold. It'd be a bad partnership and for minimal gain.

Makes me wonder if you ever watched the English Dub of Batman the animated series.

Anyway Hamil is one of the few actors that knows he doesn't have the looks he once had, realizes it and then capitalizes on his other talents.

Best... Joker... Ever. Or at least, the one most true to the comic books, but a good portion of that credit also goes to the writers.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Best... Joker... Ever. Or at least, the one most true to the comic books, but a good portion of that credit also goes to the writers.

That is true.

[Uxi]

Rest of the tripe aside, the most important factors in Big West and Studio Nue's decision will always be whether or not the terms of the contract are advantageous to them, and whether or not they think the return on investment will be large enough to make it worth their while.

What investment?

Subbed, as it is, made with a bit of editing (ep8 panty episode of Frontier might be difficult even for CN). Distribution? Toys and the like, HG would just farm it out to Diamond and the like, wouldn't they? If HG wanted a dubbed Robotech adaptation, they'd be the one paying for VA on all that nice animation that's already done. I don't see it costs BW anything, since HG would presumably bear the costs for international distribution and cut BW their check every month.

Guess it could be too small to be worthwhile, but it will always be greater than nothing (which is all it is now). Maturity wise, I don't think it's too absurd to think it could be executed at least as successful over here as say... the Clone Wars cartoon, though probably less marketable due to lacking the Star Wars franchise, of course. Frontier is definitely good enough to get a spot on Cartoon network as a weekly show with at least minimal advertising revenue (if not presented as a generic Macross analog to Robotech where they they could loop SDF:M, M7, MD7, and Frontier). legit DVD and BD sales and merchandising would depend on that?

No amount of wishful thinking on your part will change reality. You might not like it, but Big West isn't being unreasonable in refusing to work with Harmony Gold. It'd be a bad partnership and for minimal gain.

So you say... you appear far too biased to take as a reasonable authority on that.

Best... Joker... Ever. Or at least, the one most true to the comic books, but a good portion of that credit also goes to the writers.

Indeed. Great Batman.

Hamil's problem... is that he seemed to "act" decently in Star Wars and the rest of the original trilogy. But more often than not he's plain BAD everywhere else in live action (every other role reminds me of his Wing Commander performance more than anything). If anything, I get a more of a Walter Koenig vibe from Hamil and that he'd like to escape Luke but can't (especially since he's so bad everywhere else and/or the projects aren't as successful). He's probably only still used for projects cause of his name cachet

[Robelwell202]

It seems that folks are forgetting the work Hamill did on the Wing Commander game series. Not quite the idealistic Luke Skywalker role we're used to, but for a video game series, it wasn't half-bad work.

Seto Kaiba

Best... Joker... Ever. Or at least, the one most true to the comic books, but a good portion of that credit also goes to the writers.

Down, you heretic! Why do you denounce the iconic Heath Ledger performance?

Edited February 21, 2010 by Robelwell202

[Pizza the Hutt]

Uxi said to Seto Kaiba

I think you're letting the disgruntled robotech.com exile in you override any skills and knowledge you might have as a businessman. "Let go of your hate."

Bollocks!, If you were there you would be a wee bit disgruntled in the real reason why Seto was banned. Memo's puppet MaverickLSC banned Seto Kaiba because Maverick was the one who was crying on the message board "You not interested in a legal debate,you want to see people suffer because you suffer" or something like that.Seto did not break any ToU or use any vulger words,all Seto did was contradict that tosser Maverick at his "proof"of a legal debate.And because maybe they saw Seto as a threat to Robotech fandom because Seto led me to the Macross light and feared he would lead more away from the lies of HG.

BTW,Seto I think you wrong,Macross would market well in the U.S.,remember how many keeps asking HG for Macross at cons?,and Memo said at RtX that Macross fans keeps asking for Macross products.

Later

[Uxi]

Oh I have no doubt that his being disgruntled is for a legitimate reason and there's a perfectly good reason I never tried to bother participating over there... their forums looking like ass don't help, either.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Down, you heretic! Why do you denounce the icinic Heath Ledger performance?

What the heck is icinic?

Also Clancy Brown IS Lex Luthor

[VFTF1]

Oh I have no doubt that his being disgruntled is for a legitimate reason and there's a perfectly good reason I never tried to bother participating over there... their forums looking like ass don't help, either.

My avatar begs to differ... Not all asses look the same!

Pete

[Robelwell202]

What the heck is icinic?

WHOOPS!!!

Fixed.

[RDClip]

Uxi, i think you're overestimating the American anime market. Anime here is still very much a niche market and mecha is a small niche inside of that niche. BW is doing great in Japan. American (or even worldwide) revenue can't even come close to the money being made in Japan alone. So, its probably a case of BW not wanting to spend the money on an unsure venture when they are doing fine in a sure market (Japan) And plus bringing over the entire Macross franchise would cost a fortune. Distribution deals, hiring VAs and translators, advertisements, and most of all the music rights would put any interested party so far back that it would be certainly very difficult to make it back.

While I'm sure Macross Frontier could do well here, i doubt Macross7 could. Mac7 is very long and isn't your standard mecha series. Just think about how many macross FANS dislike it.

And while it could be nice to have Macross merchandise on sale worldwide. It probably wouldn't be that much cheaper. They still need to import them all (they will still be coming from Asia) and not only that they will need to pay HG fees to use the name 'Macross'. And I'd bet HG will try to gouge BW for as much as they can.

It's not like you can't get Macross products over here. If your lucky you can find some nice sales on-line (i got a yammy 1/60 from HLJ for $60 shipped around xmas) and high quality torrents exist for every Macross production. So we, outside of Japan aren't missing out on anything.

Lastly, if you really think it is an acceptable compromise to re-package the Macross franchise as Robotech7, Robotech0, and Robotech: Frontier, i have to object. All business matters aside, I like that i can say that i respect the Macross franchise. But, to have Macross being 'whored' out (because that is what it would be to turn them into RT) isn't something I or many other fans can accept.

[Seto Kaiba]

What investment?

Well, for starters... the money they'd have to sink into negotiations, having the contracts drawn up, revised, etc. There's also the tedium necessary in secondary licensing like sorting out music rights and all that crap. Like any good intellectual property licensing agreement, it's a horrible fractal paperwork nightmare that burns hundreds or even thousands of man hours on both sides... and that's assuming Big West doesn't try to exercise any kind of oversight over how the licensed rights are being used.

Guess it could be too small to be worthwhile, but it will always be greater than nothing (which is all it is now).

Unless, as I've said, the costs inherent in getting it done render any potential benefits insignificant or nonexistent.

Oh I have no doubt that his being disgruntled is for a legitimate reason and there's a perfectly good reason I never tried to bother participating over there... their forums looking like ass don't help, either.

Buddy, if you think I'm disgruntled, you don't have a clue what the word "disgruntled" means... I'm nothing like disgruntled, and I find the present state of affairs with Harmony Gold's grubby little mitts as far removed from real Macross as possible an ideal circumstance. You might not like having to pay a tiny bit extra for your toys and collectibles, but I just think of it as the "no Harmony Gold bullshit tax" and get on with life. It hasn't stopped me from enjoying my Macross collectibles.

Down, you heretic! Why do you denounce the iconic Heath Ledger performance?

Because the only reason anyone considers it "iconic" is because Heath Ledger died during filming... it's one of the worse Jokers in Batman. It's just Heath Ledger homaging Ichi the Killer in too much white greasepaint.

[Einherjar]

Lastly, if you really think it is an acceptable compromise to re-package the Macross franchise as Robotech7, Robotech0, and Robotech: Frontier, i have to object. All business matters aside, I like that i can say that i respect the Macross franchise. But, to have Macross being 'whored' out (because that is what it would be to turn them into RT) isn't something I or many other fans can accept.

I agree, this isn't the 80s anymore. No one would let HG get away with that, and it would probably be a step down from what they're trying to tell people about the franchise. Well, except maybe for MEMO, but still.

[Uxi]

Uxi, i think you're overestimating the American anime market. Anime here is still very much a niche market and mecha is a small niche inside of that niche. BW is doing great in Japan. American (or even worldwide) revenue can't even come close to the money being made in Japan alone. So, its probably a case of BW not wanting to spend the money on an unsure venture when they are doing fine in a sure market (Japan) And plus bringing over the entire Macross franchise would cost a fortune. Distribution deals, hiring VAs and translators, advertisements, and most of all the music rights would put any interested party so far back that it would be certainly very difficult to make it back.

The subs and translations are already done. Pay some of the fansubbers, maybe, or get their own bilingual people to do it, but I really don't think that's be tops on the list. VA's depends on the level of talent. Avoid the celebrities and what not and should be reasonably priced. The music would need to be redone if they did a dub anyway, so the secondary licensing goes away there. I threw out Gaga as a joke but getting a good quality VA could definitely be a way to try to expand the genre. That would be the most extreme example, I think, and more likely it's a b-grade group of possibly up and comers but alot of strange things happen, particularly if bundled as part of the LAM deal. I don't think any of us give HG much credit for that, though.

It's definitely a niche market, but just look at the populations of the US and don't forget to factor in Europe because HG is interfering there, too. It's EVERYWHERE outside of Japan, that is all SNAFU, isn't it? I imagine it doesn't apply to HK and Asia since it's so close...

And while it could be nice to have Macross merchandise on sale worldwide. It probably wouldn't be that much cheaper. They still need to import them all (they will still be coming from Asia) and not only that they will need to pay HG fees to use the name 'Macross'. And I'd bet HG will try to gouge BW for as much as they can.

Everything comes from Asia, including all of the domestically marketed toys The cheap labor offsets the shipping costs, no doubt.

HG would no doubt try to gouge. Maybe that's the reason there's no deal... or maybe the legal wrangling is too complicated for them to want to try. What's the margin on the toys? How much do they actually cost a producer to make? Video distribution is well known to be VERY profitable. It's pennies on the dollar for Blu-ray and much cheaper for DVD. Packaging and shipping, etc.

It's not like you can't get Macross products over here. If your lucky you can find some nice sales on-line (i got a yammy 1/60 from HLJ for $60 shipped around xmas) and high quality torrents exist for every Macross production. So we, outside of Japan aren't missing out on anything.

Sure, especially now that we can get Ami Ami. Let's not forget the whole Toycom incident and that we were thinking 20-25% off of what we're paying now was the ballpark guestimate. The argument doesn't hinge on us, though... it's the far larger market that just doesn't know about a rather obscure japanese anime or it's numerous merchandising in games and toys because they don't get casually picked up at Toys R Us, or Best Buy or Game Stop or the like.

[Bri]

Rest of the tripe aside, the most important factors in Big West and Studio Nue's decision will always be whether or not the terms of the contract are advantageous to them, and whether or not they think the return on investment will be large enough to make it worth their while. As it stands, the anime market over here in the US is so small that it's highly dubious they would make a significant profit on the deal, and because Harmony Gold thinks they have Big West/Studio Nue over a barrel, it's unlikely they're offering mutually advantageous contract terms.

It's quite unlikely that BW would even get involved with the licensing. One of the more recent developments in the industry is to leave foreign licensing to partners with an international distribution networks. For example Kadokawa a major publisher with a large anime portfolio recently closed it's US offices and now relies amongst others on Bandai Visual for foreign distribution for it's anime. Kodansha has hooked up with Random House a major US publisher. Then there are players like Animax(backed by oa Sony), Disney/Ghibli, 4kids(Fox). These are all professional organisations that can operate worldwide, why would anyone want to get involved with a dubious middleman like HG anymore? Doubt anyone cares about the hassle to bring one anime franchise to the West.

Just compare it with Gundam, which has no such issues. Most of it's merchandise is import as well. Getting Macross to the west would probably just mean DVDs/BR.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Bri

[Uxi]

Bandai Visual would be the most likely choice. IIRC the only reason HG is under consideration is that they're almost certain to make it a legal issue. If Seto's logic is correct, it's too small for BW to bother fighting it in court (or presumably proxy that legal fight through anyone else). Too bad Bill Gates isn't a Macross fan.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Because the only reason anyone considers it "iconic" is because Heath Ledger died during filming... it's one of the worse Jokers in Batman. It's just Heath Ledger homaging Ichi the Killer in too much white greasepaint.

Edited February 22, 2010 by BeyondTheGrave

[Seto Kaiba]

Just compare it with Gundam, which has no such issues. Most of it's merchandise is import as well. Getting Macross to the west would probably just mean DVDs/BR.

Under their current business model, it's unusual for most any anime series being distributed in the west to see much of any merchandise. Extensive merchandising is rare even among the shows geared towards the preteen set, and tends to be limited to just those shows which have been extensively sanitized to air on basic cable and broadcast television. Not exactly the faithful adaptation mainstream anime enthusiasts are looking for these days, since the censors working on those kid's shows frequently excise whole episodes (and even whole seasons) rather than risk offending all the bored stay-at-home moms with nothing better to do. Shows targeted towards teens and such tend not to have any licensed merchandise sold directly by the regional distributor at all, simply because the demand is insufficient to justify it most of the time.

On a side note, I can't decide if BeyondTheGrave means sarcastic clapping or genuine approval of my criticisms of Heath Ledger's Joker.

[RDClip]

Under their current business model, it's unusual for most any anime series being distributed in the west to see much of any merchandise. Extensive merchandising is rare even among the shows geared towards the preteen set, and tends to be limited to just those shows which have been extensively sanitized to air on basic cable and broadcast television. Not exactly the faithful adaptation mainstream anime enthusiasts are looking for these days, since the censors working on those kid's shows frequently excise whole episodes (and even whole seasons) rather than risk offending all the bored stay-at-home moms with nothing better to do. Shows targeted towards teens and such tend not to have any licensed merchandise sold directly by the regional distributor at all, simply because the demand is insufficient to justify it most of the time.

I can understand that. After all, considering that anime is a niche market, the fans willing to spend $100+ on one piece of merchandise is still a smaller market within it.

[BeyondTheGrave]

A little bit of both. Leaning more toward approval though. I don't mean to disrespect his legacy I just feel his role was over-hyped. It was would have been his break-out role allowing him to do other roles besides standing around looking pretty. I actually posed the question if he hadn't passed away would his role been as good. I ended up getting a -5 rating on youtube.

Anyway... Someone should ask Tommy Yune if he liked Macross Zero or Macross Frontier and if it has any effect on Robotech.

[Seto Kaiba]

I can understand that. After all, considering that anime is a niche market, the fans willing to spend $100+ on one piece of merchandise is still a smaller market within it.

No kidding... even Harmony Gold has difficulty getting their masterpiece collection stuff to sell out in a timely fashion, and they're selling in aggressively limited runs to a small but fanatically loyal fanbase.

A little bit of both. Leaning more toward approval though. I don't mean to disrespect his legacy I just feel his role was over-hyped. It was would have been his break-out role allowing him to do other roles besides standing around looking pretty. I actually posed the question if he hadn't passed away would his role been as good. I ended up getting a -5 rating on youtube.

I know we're venturing way off topic here, but I always felt that Mark Hamill's Batman: the Animated Series Joker was the best cinematic incarnation of the character, followed by Jack Nicholson. Heath Ledger never managed to get the whimsical attitude that was/is the Joker's most defining characteristic (and the thing that makes him so farting creepy), and instead came off as a dime store imitation of Ichi the Killer... not whimsical, not funny... just generic unbalanced nutjob.

Anyway... Someone should ask Tommy Yune if he liked Macross Zero or Macross Frontier and if it has any effect on Robotech.

IMO, given the content of the so-called "new comics", it's a safe bet that the answer is "yes". There hasn't been anything new on the Robotech front since before Macross Frontier came out, so it's highly doubtful that Frontier had an influence on Robotech, but there's no doubt that Macross Zero did. Design elements of the VF-0D were incorporated into the retconned-in Alpha fighter prototype (VF-X-6 Genia) which showed up in Robotech: From the Stars. For that matter, that miniseries had a story that was equal parts material "borrowed" from Macross Zero, the events of September '05 in the Macross timeline, and material from the old Robotech comics. The plot had Roy testing the VF-1 prototype in combat against anti-UN forces for most of the story, wrapping up with the Anti-UN using a captured UN ship to attack UN forces. The only noteworthy changes being that Roy was operating a VF-X-1 instead of a VF-0, the Anti-UN didn't have a VF of its own, the hijacked ship was ARMD-01 instead of an Oberth-class destroyer, and it attacked Antarctic Base (lol internal reference) and wiped it off the map with a "reflex weapon" instead of having the hijacked Oberth destroy the Mars Return Fleet.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Gubaba]

IMO, given the content of the so-called "new comics", it's a safe bet that the answer is "yes". There hasn't been anything new on the Robotech front since before Macross Frontier came out, so it's highly doubtful that Frontier had an influence on Robotech, but there's no doubt that Macross Zero did. Design elements of the VF-0D were incorporated into the retconned-in Alpha fighter prototype (VF-X-6 Genia) which showed up in Robotech: From the Stars. For that matter, that miniseries had a story that was equal parts material "borrowed" from Macross Zero, the events of September '05 in the Macross timeline, and material from the old Robotech comics. The plot had Roy testing the VF-1 prototype in combat against anti-UN forces for most of the story, wrapping up with the Anti-UN using a captured UN ship to attack UN forces. The only noteworthy changes being that Roy was operating a VF-X-1 instead of a VF-0, the Anti-UN didn't have a VF of its own, the hijacked ship was ARMD-01 instead of an Oberth-class destroyer, and it attacked Antarctic Base (lol internal reference) and wiped it off the map with a "reflex weapon" instead of having the hijacked Oberth destroy the Mars Return Fleet.

Just got a message from 1st Border Red Devil:

Okay, that's quite possibly the biggest stretch I have EVER seen. The Genia, not to defend Tommy Yune, looks like the Aramaki's early Vector and Super Vector (p. 18, 19 & 21 of Roger Harkavy's Imai Files) than the VF-0D unless I'm really missing something. About the ONLY thing I see in common with the Phoenix is that they both have running lights at the wing roots and the stabilizer on the head. However, that matches the Vector as well, a design that predates the VF-0D by almost 2 decades.

I haven't seen the Robotech comic in question, so I can't comment one way or another. I figured it was only right to pass along the missive, however.

EDIT: Oh, and Pizza: 1st Border Red Devil (AKA Brooklyn Red Leg) is NOT Rhade, whatever you may think.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Gubaba

[RedWolf]

The subs and translations are already done. Pay some of the fansubbers, maybe, or get their own bilingual people to do it, but I really don't think that's be tops on the list. VA's depends on the level of talent. Avoid the celebrities and what not and should be reasonably priced. The music would need to be redone if they did a dub anyway, so the secondary licensing goes away there. I threw out Gaga as a joke but getting a good quality VA could definitely be a way to try to expand the genre. That would be the most extreme example, I think, and more likely it's a b-grade group of possibly up and comers but alot of strange things happen, particularly if bundled as part of the LAM deal. I don't think any of us give HG much credit for that, though.

You never heard of CrunchyRoll have you? They have official English subs in agreement with anime producers in Japan. Latest anime episodes is shown roughly the same time.

Besides any bonifide fansubber and scanlators would say it is labor of love thus it is free and not taking any profit. (Hentai or doujins on the other hand is another matter)

Edited February 22, 2010 by RedWolf

[Einherjar]

IMO, given the content of the so-called "new comics", it's a safe bet that the answer is "yes". There hasn't been anything new on the Robotech front since before Macross Frontier came out, so it's highly doubtful that Frontier had an influence on Robotech, but there's no doubt that Macross Zero did. Design elements of the VF-0D were incorporated into the retconned-in Alpha fighter prototype (VF-X-6 Genia) which showed up in Robotech: From the Stars. For that matter, that miniseries had a story that was equal parts material "borrowed" from Macross Zero, the events of September '05 in the Macross timeline, and material from the old Robotech comics. The plot had Roy testing the VF-1 prototype in combat against anti-UN forces for most of the story, wrapping up with the Anti-UN using a captured UN ship to attack UN forces. The only noteworthy changes being that Roy was operating a VF-X-1 instead of a VF-0, the Anti-UN didn't have a VF of its own, the hijacked ship was ARMD-01 instead of an Oberth-class destroyer, and it attacked Antarctic Base (lol internal reference) and wiped it off the map with a "reflex weapon" instead of having the hijacked Oberth destroy the Mars Return Fleet.

You forgot to mention a lot of the "new comics" were actually trying to expand on small scenes directly from the Macross Saga to make them more significant/dramatic. "From the Stars" exists only because of that flashback scene Claudia had about her first meetings with Roy near the end of the series. In fact, that entire scene was redone near the end of the story. They (Tommy) created an engrossing/convoluted story from just that scene. The same can be said about "Love and War," which made an elaborate story behind the scenes of the original cartoon revolving around Max and Milia's duels ending with the knife fight. Interestingly, it made Milia more hardcore.

If they were given the chance to go on, I think the new comics were going to make the Macross Saga look more like all those stories that have been added to the One Year War of Gundam; to make it the longest war/year ever.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Einherjar

[Moly_Sigang]

To Seto:

The Genia look more of the same as an Alpha and the only noticeable difference i can see is that they added a few centimeters on the wing tips to give it a bit longer wing span than the Alpha. And also i noticed that the design for Admiral Lisa Hunter in 'Mars Base One' is kinda based on Misa Hayase's Flashback 2012 appearance. Or maybe it's because of the captain's hat?

Also, i can definitely see a few 'influences' from Macross Frontier showing up on Shadow Rising, or even on new comics (if they decide to do another mini-series). Like they say if your gonna steal, steal from the best. They've already rip off took some influences from Star Trek, Babylon 5 and god knows how many other sci-fi movies.

[Seto Kaiba]

I haven't seen the Robotech comic in question, so I can't comment one way or another. I figured it was only right to pass along the missive, however.

Ah, I'm surprised he didn't contact me directly... but my point was that the Genia is an Alpha done up in a Skull Squad paintjob similar to the one on Roy's VF-0S, and sporting a wing structure similar to that of the VF-0D. Admittedly, looking at it again, BRL does have a point that it does borrow a lot from the early concept art for the "Vector", which later became Mospeada's Legioss.

You forgot to mention a lot of the "new comics" were actually trying to expand on small scenes directly from the Macross Saga to make them more significant/dramatic.

In my obsessive rage quest for accuracy, I must disagree on a technicality. The bulk of the so-called "new comics" isn't attempts to make small scenes from the Robotech adaptation of Macross seem more significant/dramatic, in many cases it's attempts to go back and fill in the Macross Saga's backstory and explain things that went unexplained in the series itself... like how and why Mars Base Sara was abandoned, what all the principal characters were doing when the SDF-1 crashed on "Macross Island", how a bunch of the characters met and came to hate each other, etc. True, there is also a fair bit of really unnecessary expansion on minor and rather insignificant plot elements in the series too... like the events surrounding Lance Belmont (GCM: Yellow Belmont) after he crashed on Earth, or the full extent of Roy's involvement in the VF-1 testing, and all that crap.

"From the Stars" exists only because of that flashback scene Claudia had about her first meetings with Roy near the end of the series. In fact, that entire scene was redone near the end of the story. They (Tommy) created an engrossing/convoluted story from just that scene. The same can be said about "Love and War," which made an elaborate story behind the scenes of the original cartoon revolving around Max and Milia's duels ending with the knife fight. Interestingly, it made Milia more hardcore.

Actually, from reading it I got the distinct impression that Tommy saw Macross Zero, said "this poo is AWESOME, I need to make something like this for Robotech". So he modified a plot from an old Robotech about how Roy was manlier than Chuck Norris with Anti-UN and VF test story elements from Macross Zero, and arranged a climax based around an event he pilfered from Macross's backstory (Sept. '05). The use of the whole business with Claudia was a necessary element in it, but wasn't major... it was just to tie the main story into the comic. He also used From the Stars to tie up a lot of little mecha-related loose ends and explain how everyone met, incl. characters from the Sentinels and Masters Saga.

Love and War was exactly what you describe it to be... an attempt to blow the knife fight into the park into a sci-fi epic all its own. An attempt that failed spectacularly, and turned Milia/Miriya from a reasonably respectable character with some depth and a sense of honor/pride into a bog-standard Hollywood tough gal with anger management issues, which he seems to have drawn from shameless Milia/Miriya clone "Kiyora" in Robotech: Battlecry.

Really, the "new comics" seem to have been Tommy working around a similar narrative model to that of the Expanded Universe of Star Wars, where EVERY LITTLE THING AND BACKGROUND CHARACTER IN THE MOVIES IS HUGELY SIGNIFICANT TO THE ENTIRE GALAXY. </rage>

Edited February 22, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Uxi]

I like it that Alpha/Legioss done in skull squadron markings. I'ma probably be getting some CMs Legioss since they're sturdier than the MPC and given their already cartoony paint, am thinking of repainting it similar to that.

[HappyPenguins]

wow now its against the rules to criticize The Shadow Chronicles on RTX

I wasn't aware that it was some sacred cow, wish memo would enlighten me

as to what is so farting great about it. I just don't see it =|

am I blind?

[Gubaba]

wow now its against the rules to criticize The Shadow Chronicles on RTX

I wasn't aware that it was some sacred cow, wish memo would enlighten me

as to what is so farting great about it. I just don't see it =|

am I blind?

That weirded me out, too...escpecially considering that the topic is, "Is Anyone Else Losing Interest," and criticism of Shadow Chronicles seems like it would dovetail into that discussion quite naturally. And everyone was being reasonable about it...no flaming or anything.

But I guess that's Memo for you.

[HappyPenguins]

That weirded me out, too...escpecially considering that the topic is, "Is Anyone Else Losing Interest," and criticism of Shadow Chronicles seems like it would dovetail into that discussion quite naturally. And everyone was being reasonable about it...no flaming or anything.

But I guess that's Memo for you.

Yeah, he accused the criticism of "going off topic" when it was relevant enough to the subject. It is after all, one of the big reasons I've lost interest in RT and see no reason to support it any further. I don't think I've ever even supported HG cause all the RT merch I own came from Ebay or Amazon. Well except for TSC dvd but I didn't buy that, it was a gift from my boyfriend.

But honestly I can understand why you can't bash the movie on the official website, but on RTX, why not? Is it going to hurt Tommy's feelings? Is he going to cry over the criticism? Maybe if memo would be honest and admit to such things, then maybe I'd lay off

[Gubaba]

Yeah, he accused the criticism of "going off topic" when it was relevant enough to the subject. It is after all, one of the big reasons I've lost interest in RT and see no reason to support it any further. I don't think I've ever even supported HG cause all the RT merch I own came from Ebay or Amazon. Well except for TSC dvd but I didn't buy that, it was a gift from my boyfriend.

But honestly I can understand why you can't bash the movie on the official website, but on RTX, why not? Is it going to hurt Tommy's feelings? Is he going to cry over the criticism? Maybe if memo would be honest and admit to such things, then maybe I'd lay off

Quite frankly, I think the site exists primarily for Memo to show off to HG how great he is at marshaling the troops and building enthusiasm, and creating buzz. And I'll wager he thinks anyone who says "Hey, I like Robotech but I didn't like Shadow Chronicles" puts that enthusiasm at risk. How can he show HG his magnificent work-in-progress if everyone's bashing the hell out of their award-winning tribute to cinematic excellence? Or talking about Macross legalities?

What I don't get is...if he doesn't like dissenting opinion, why have a forum at all? Just have the website be a venue for news and fan projects (after they've been properly vetted and approved, of course ). That way he wouldn't have to deal with pesky naysayers getting between him and his sweet, sweet HG luv.

[HappyPenguins]

Quite frankly, I think the site exists primarily for Memo to show off to HG how great he is at marshaling the troops and building enthusiasm, and creating buzz. And I'll wager he thinks anyone who says "Hey, I like Robotech but I didn't like Shadow Chronicles" puts that enthusiasm at risk. How can he show HG his magnificent work-in-progress if everyone's bashing the hell out of their award-winning tribute to cinematic excellence? Or talking about Macross legalities?

What I don't get is...if he doesn't like dissenting opinion, why have a forum at all? Just have the website be a venue for news and fan projects (after they've been properly vetted and approved, of course ). That way he wouldn't have to deal with pesky naysayers getting between him and his sweet, sweet HG luv.

Yeah I agree wholeheartedly

a forum is just a waste if people can't have their own opinions.

[Einherjar]

Quite frankly, I think the site exists primarily for Memo to show off to HG how great he is at marshaling the troops and building enthusiasm, and creating buzz. And I'll wager he thinks anyone who says "Hey, I like Robotech but I didn't like Shadow Chronicles" puts that enthusiasm at risk. How can he show HG his magnificent work-in-progress if everyone's bashing the hell out of their award-winning tribute to cinematic excellence? Or talking about Macross legalities?

What I don't get is...if he doesn't like dissenting opinion, why have a forum at all? Just have the website be a venue for news and fan projects (after they've been properly vetted and approved, of course ). That way he wouldn't have to deal with pesky naysayers getting between him and his sweet, sweet HG luv.

He could just put all of that information on a blog, making him the focal point for everything without all the theatrics that already happens. But where would the interaction with other fans be besides the feedback which can be deleted at will for any particular reason? He has to give the illusion that the site is still "by fans for fans."

I think it's already clear that he's really just a huge fanboy trying to get into HG's graces or a shill who is not rewarded at all for his work. He's not even rewarded with official progress from the creative team to back up all the claims he's ever made about Robotech. He's stuck advertising old crap that people are going to be disappointed in and just stalling for them. Oh, and pot shots at a separate successful franchise because of legalities, which only he can really talk about.