HG and Robotech Debates

[Keith]

This is crazy,

You folks are telling me that harmony gold actually has money to pay a lawyer to take time to write a letter and mail it and pay the $300 plus bill for that time? How the Hell did they get the money to pay the lawyers?,, oh that supposed lump sum of money that WB already paid HG is what keeping the employess of HG fed and to pay lawyers.

I am shocked that Memo did not pop in here yet to try to turn this into a real legal debate so he can justify and defend the stupidity of harmony gold and they way the treat Robotech.

After watching that recent vid of steve Yune and Tony I cracked up at the end of the video when alot of fans asked about Macross Frontier and steve suddenly had a wooden face... Totally epic.

Robotech fans wanting Macross animes needs to come out,I did and I am still alive.

HG actually run a chain of apartment buildings, and they use the money that "should" go to maintenance & repairs to mail out those letters. True story, Tom Bateman got fired because he refused to go clean the pools on his appointed day. And anytime Steve Yune says he's going off to play "Super mario Bros.", that just means he got called in to unclog some toilets.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Keith

[VFTF1]

HG actually run a chain of apartment buildings, and they use the money that "should" go to maintenance & repairs to mail out those letters. True story, Tom Bateman got fired because he refused to go clean the pools on his appointed day. And anytime Steve Yune says he's going off to play "Super mario Bros.", that just means he got called in to unclog some toilets.

And no one else has a hyperdrive califrabulator I can tell you THAT! So HAH!

Pete

...

what are we talking about again?

[Seto Kaiba]

I thought the connection made with that Italian prime minister years ago was dropped thanks to the statue of limitations.

What I've heard on that note was that some, not all, of the charges were dropped due to the statute of limitations.

Albeit banned yet again from a couple of websites...

Like nobody else here hasn't been banned from a few Robotech websites...

HG actually run a chain of apartment buildings, and they use the money that "should" go to maintenance & repairs to mail out those letters.

Y'know... that may very well explain all the complaints I've read about how serious arm-twisting is needed to get them to fix anything on the properties they lease out.

[chrisk]

Albeit banned yet again from a couple of websites... wink.gif

Gubaba, sounds like you're asking for an apology from Pizza. Come on, the kid didn't mean to call you a Nazi!

If it has HG's letterhead, then it's probably a template C&D letter.

Probably has a personalized dedication:

"Yours truly,

Tommy Yune and the rest of Harmony Gold staff

Keep supporting our products!"

True story, Tom Bateman got fired because he refused to go clean the pools on his appointed day. And anytime Steve Yune says he's going off to play "Super mario Bros.", that just means he got called in to unclog some toilets.

The guy said that on the latest con vid? Man are they understaffed.

[HappyPenguins]

HG actually run a chain of apartment buildings, and they use the money that "should" go to maintenance & repairs to mail out those letters. True story, Tom Bateman got fired because he refused to go clean the pools on his appointed day. And anytime Steve Yune says he's going off to play "Super mario Bros.", that just means he got called in to unclog some toilets.

Wow, maybe they should look into retail instead...

[VFTF1]

Nah. If they had imagination they'd convert the apartment chain into an anime-themed Macross girls whore house. I mean - if they're going to be THAT anal about having exclussive rights to the show -then they could at LEAST use it for something. They obviously can't make good movies, they will never get a decent tv series out. So just dress some babes up as Minmey, Misa and the Bridge Bunnies and at least put that real estate to good use.

But nooo...

The only thing they seem to be expert at is writing C&D and banning people from their website

Pete

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Nah. If they had imagination they'd convert the apartment chain into an anime-themed Macross girls whore house. I mean - if they're going to be THAT anal about having exclussive rights to the show -then they could at LEAST use it for something. They obviously can't make good movies, they will never get a decent tv series out. So just dress some babes up as Minmey, Misa and the Bridge Bunnies and at least put that real estate to good use.

But nooo...

The only thing they seem to be expert at is writing C&D and banning people from their website

Pete

I know I'd be more inclined to support them, if they made this move.

[VFTF1]

Knowing them, you'd have reports at the last minute from first-time customers that it was just Carl Macek in a thong waiting for them.

Pete

[HappyPenguins]

Knowing them, you'd have reports at the last minute from first-time customers that it was just Carl Macek in a thong waiting for them.

Pete

ROFL oh man that mental image is soooo wrong

[VFTF1]

ROFL oh man that mental image is soooo wrong

Nag, nag nag. All you ever do is complain about Robotech. They put Carl Macek in a thong - and it's still just "nag nag nag!" No wonder Memo banned you!

Pete

[HappyPenguins]

Nag, nag nag. All you ever do is complain about Robotech. They put Carl Macek in a thong - and it's still just "nag nag nag!" No wonder Memo banned you!

Pete

nah I'm sure memo banned me because I didn't approve of him in a thong either

[SkullLeaderVF-X]

Knowing them, you'd have reports at the last minute from first-time customers that it was just Carl Macek in a thong waiting for them.

Pete

And yet I bet you, there would still be a fair amount of RT fans still lining up to take there turn. Damn, now I have a picture of Macek in a thong in my head. Thanks alot VFTF1 And Happy, it is wrong. Terribly wrong.

[Moly_Sigang]

Speaking of thong, Maverick's movie, apply titled 'Thong', will probably involve Macek, Tommy, Steve and Mav himself wearing nothing but thong for the entirety of the movie.

[VFTF1]

And yet I bet you, there would still be a fair amount of RT fans still lining up to take there turn.

How true is that, I wonder?

I have yet to actually encounter a Robotech fan. Seriously.

I'm not talking about a "oh yeah I like Robotech too" fan - that would be about 50% or more of this website. I'm talking about someone who is a Robotech fan like I was a Transformers fan. I notice in the Transformers thread lots of people are like "who is Straxus?" and "what is Darkmount?" - for me, who grew up with the original Marvel Comics - it's just amazing to read that...it's like..huh? I sold off my collection, but I still remember...have I really been around that long?

Despite my ire at Transformers right now, I am confident that I would know EVERYTHING - or pretty damn near everything about even the smallest details of the stories from the marvel comics and a fair amount from the cartoons. Diddo for the toys - since I have owned pretty much EVERY Transformer ever made.

Nowadays, whenever the subject of Transformers comes up - I complain - sure - but if you engaged me in a discussion of the positive aspects of Transformers and a debate over the literary merits and demerits of the Marvel comics - I would be game. I would have something relevent to communicate.

Where are the Robotech fans who are like that? I seriously don't see ANY. The extent of commentary regarding Shadow Chronicles that I've seen from Robotech fans is "it's great" combined with criticism of Macross Frontier for being porn.

Previously - in the earlier incarnations of this thread, I begged for the appearance of a Robotech fan who would explain to me what is so great about Robotech.

Captain Donovan came along and said that Robotech is great because he's Rosa Parks.

Doug Bendo came along and said Robotech is great because I'm a liberal who sleeps with 12 year old girls.

Memo came along and said sorry to Seto.

Pizza came along and said he couldn't believe how he'd been screwed.

NOBODY has come along to even once exhibit the slightest bit of real honest to gosh ENTHUSIASM for Roboech.

So...where are these mythical Robotech fans? What part of the internet do they inhabit?

I guess if Robotech Genesis actually came to fruition - we'd see some bona fied Robotech fans - since Genesis would not doubt have been a comentary to the actual series in some way....

But..generally...I don't see them anywhere. Robotech.com seems to be filled primarily with total newbies, people who vaguely remember Robotech from when they were kids 25 years ago, and people who work for Harmony Gold.

Fans?

Can't find 'em.

Pete

[Funkenstein]

So not only is Harmony Gold douchebags to their fans, they're also douchebags to the people who rent their apartments. I have a hard time thinking of why someone would like anything about these bastards.

[Wanzerfan]

I don't think there is any real way to "do it right". Probably the best thing to have done would've been to never talk to HG about it. I guess there's the live and learn factor, in which no one should really get involved in doing stuff for a company that is looking to shaft you. Just by reading througout various blogs, websites, and whatnot, this action has seemed to really backfire on HG, and for a moving picture fanfic with no monetary gain. Dust that dirt of your shoulders!!! Time to be Voltron fans

Here's an idea when you do Robotech stuff that's Macross related. Get permission from Big West, and if HG tells you to cease and desist, tell them to go f*ck off with a nice big "Chicago Wave" in their face until they get their mess with Big West straightened out once and for all.

[terry the lone wolf]

True that. I remember once when doing my site, I announced an upcoming interview with the Waltrips on their Shadow Chronicles comic, HG asked me to hold off until another interview regarding the comic on another site was published because they were granted exclusive access. I said okay as a courtesy, and had to hound HG for a while to get the go ahead to publish the interview.

But this also begs the question - is every RT fan project at risk now? Not that there are that many of them at all. This is RT, after all.

I think the ones that are in direct competition with Shadow Chronicles. I'm not a member of the U.E.G. forum but I've browsed and there's a huge anti-HG sentiment. That's their right but when you start trashing the product that the HG owns how can you expect them to do you any favors. Hey Shadow Chronicles sucks support us we make real RT.

[Seto Kaiba]

EDIT: Long post is looooooooooooooooooooooooong.

Where are the Robotech fans who are like that? I seriously don't see ANY. The extent of commentary regarding Shadow Chronicles that I've seen from Robotech fans is "it's great" combined with criticism of Macross Frontier for being porn.

Um... well, in all fairness you could probably make a pretty good case for calling me "that kind" of Robotech fan. I might not have much use for the franchise these days, and I never saw the point in collecting toys, but if you're looking for someone familiar with the intricacies of all the various Robotech adaptations, I'm probably about the best you'll do unless you go looking for some of the people who quit the fandom back around '04. Due in no small measure to my frankly ridiculous memory for details, I'm pretty confident I could provide an accurate, well-worded answer to most any question about Robotech... which is why even now, months after being banned from Robotech.com, people still try to track me down via e-mail to get their questions answered.

Now, if you want to know why "that kind" of Robotech fan is so rare, I'll happily spell it out for you. You'll probably end up saying something like "well that's obvious", but it's the most honest and accurate answer I can give.

If I had to name any one factor as the main reason "that kind" of fan is practically nonexistent among Robotech fans these days, I'd have to point to the way Harmony Gold handled the Robotech license in the late 80s and the 90s. Back when the fanbase first started to migrate online, the licensed comics and novels were the only thing moving the "Robotech story" forward. Even then, there was a lot of contention about their various departures from, and clashes with, each other and the "original 85", but fans still treasured them because that was the only thing new in the Robotech franchise at the time. Once Tommy Yune took over creative directorship of the franchise and rebooted Robotech's continuity, the old comics and novels were left out in the cold as no longer relevant to the story. The fans weren't entirely stupid, many of them found the novels and comics disappointing, with exciting-looking cover art sandwiching pages upon pages of awkward writing and bad art. Now that they had the new comics, which despite their fairly shoddy writing were a massive step up in quality, they didn't need to excuse the many failings of the old comics and novels anymore. By the time McKeever told everyone on SSL that the old comics and novels were the result of HG whoring the license out to whoever wanted it, the fans had already decided that nothing produced between the failure of Robotech II: the Sentinels (1987) and Tommy's continuity reboot (2001) was worth a damn, and that most of it was so different from the original series that it wasn't "real Robotech".

If nothing else, it's the attitude the fans have that 99% of Robotech is cheap crap Harmony Gold's licensees turned out to make a quick buck, and that it's all of such low quality that it's not worth the time it takes to read it that prevents people from becoming "that kind" of fan. Honestly, as someone who actually read all the McKinney novels and almost all of the old comics, I have to say I agree with them in most cases. You don't get many expert fans who know every part of Robotech like the back of their hands because so much of Robotech is just piss-dribblingly awful. Even by 1980s standards most of what's in the comics and novels is every bit as stupid and campy as the worst material from the old Star Trek cartoon... and most of it is so far off from the TV series that in many cases it almost feels like an Elseworlds book.

So, I guess if you wanted to sum it up nicely... you don't get die-hard experts in Robotech because most of it is so bad nobody wants to read it.

Captain Donovan came along and said that Robotech is great because he's Rosa Parks.

He's a prat.

Doug Bendo came along and said Robotech is great because I'm a liberal who sleeps with 12 year old girls.

He's an even bigger prat.

Memo came along and said sorry to Seto.

He's an insincere prat.

Pizza came along and said he couldn't believe how he'd been screwed.

He claims to have been manipulated into acting like a prat.

Are we seeing a pattern here yet? Your quest to find a rational Robotech fan who can explain what's so great about Robotech is a complete boondoggle because most almost all of the Robotech fans we get here are the disenchanted fans who are sick of broken promises, the angry fans who were banned for HERESY!, and the ones who're spoiling for a fight. We don't get the fanatics here because they spend all day telling each other we're all a bunch of baby-eating Sith Lords conspiring to destroy their fanbase from within, and we never see any rational, levelheaded fans who are enthusiastic about the franchise because there's no such animal. Anyone smart enough to read about the franchise's history instantly becomes disenchanted, and anyone dense enough to believe Harmony Gold's propaganda easily becomes a fanatic.

NOBODY has come along to even once exhibit the slightest bit of real honest to gosh ENTHUSIASM for Roboech.

Like I said... no such animal. Now if you'll excuse me, Sasquatch and I are off to go hunt grays and Chupacabras in Atlantis with Tesla's death ray.

But..generally...I don't see them anywhere. Robotech.com seems to be filled primarily with total newbies, people who vaguely remember Robotech from when they were kids 25 years ago, and people who work for Harmony Gold.

Not just Robotech.com... that's a fair description of pretty much EVERY Robotech fansite with a community section.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[VFTF1]

Thanks for the back story Seto - I particularly didn't know about the history with regard to the 2001 reboot, and how people think everything between 87 and 2001 is crap or "not Robotech."

It sounds a bit like what went on in the Transformers fandom - I remember when Beast Wars came out there were rumblings of dissaffection - but Beast Wars turned out to be so well woven into the original "G1" fabric, that by its' end, I think the nay-saying Raksha was pretty much alone in her hatred of BW, and anybody who'd had any doubts about "Trukk not Munky" accepted Beast Wars as a brilliant continuation of the original stories - plus we got CGI rendered Optimus Prime, the Ark, Megatron (all in original G1 design too!)...Prowl... it was great back then. Like a dream come true.

The real problem started with Armada and the Unicron Trilogy - but I guess Hasbro (correctly) guessed that little kids needed a new cartoon - and while there were easter egg homages to placate die hard fans like me... the Trilogy was..well...extremely...extremely new...

The rest, as they say, is history, what with the Movie changing EVERYTHING just about...Animated...

But all along Transformers has been given a multi-verse explanation - something called the Unified Theory or something like that...multiple dimmensions - the only CONSTANT is Unicron - the giant transforming planet - and he goes from dimmension to dimmension eating them. This is why you have a hundred zillion possible versions of Optimus Prime and NONE of the different shows contradict eachother (even though they seem to) - it's because each time line is in a seperate dimmension - and only Unicron has access to all of them (although sometimes TFs will travel from one dimmension to another--- like in the Dreamwave comic written by Furman "Worlds Collide").

Now - take it or leave it, love it or hate it - there's a generally coherent story arc there. My biggest beef with the TFs is that while I accept that the story is coherent - I no longer find it compelling. I would much prefer to leave all these flat one dimmensional characters behind and follow up on grand adventures in ONE time line (the original one).... And I also have come to find the toys irredeemably ugly...

Anyways....

With Robotech --- it is kind of strange ...because...after 1987...the closer we get to the 90s....well...by the time the internet showed up - wouldn't more and more people have discovered that Robotech was actually comprised of three seperate anime?

I mean - I assume this information was not readily available for all? Or - well..ok - technically it was - for those who read the Robtoech Art books, and maybe it was mentioned in the RPGs... but back then nobody watched Japanese anime except for Gubaba, who as we know doesn't count because he's from the planet Utap, part of an intellectual elite plotting to take over Pluto...

I vaguely remember Keith linking to some old usenet group posts where people would tear into him for stating the obvious about Macross/Robotech...

As for Genesis - heh. Yeah... ok - I didn't realize they were anti-Shadow Chronicles ... but... so what? There's plenty of Star Wars fans who hate the prequils - I'm sure lots of them make fanfiction that for them is more "true" to the original trilogy -- Lucas doesn't seem to get involved in fan wars and fan politics. He doesn't go after people who hate Phantom Menace and make a fan film about Boba Fett.

This is the real problem with HG. I mean - fans will be fans. You're never going to get a fanbase that just stands there saying "WE LOVE YOU! GIVE US MORE!" no matter what. Fans are always going to be quarreling and changing their minds.

Corporate strategy needs to be above that and look to just sell a product and make it interesting and accessable. Keep it faithful to the source material makes sense if the source material generates enough fan interest to make it profitable. This is true (IMO) in the case of GI joe, Transformers and ESPECIALLY Star Wars - the fanbase is not marginal - they are very very vocal.

Hell- I would go to the length of saying that the success of the first Bay Transformers movie is - in large part - owed to the fanbase and to Don Murphey's intelligent gamble of opening his website up to the public. Don Murphy built HUGE suspence - and news of the film being made spread over time through word of mouth... the internet played a really big part.

HG seems incapable of using the internet. For them - the internet is full of pirates, Macross purists who don't respect their trade mark, and competitors.

I dunno...

This is why I find it bizarre that there is ANY talk of a LAM and Warner Bros and Tobey Macguire. Robotech is dead. Nobody remembers it. Why would anybody want to make a movie of this thing? Because there's a fanbase that will pay to see it? Who? Memo and Doug Bendo? Doug's "9 thousand lessoners."

9 thousand people times 20 bucks a ticket is 180 thousand USD.

180 thousand USD might pay for half an hour of filming on a professional movie set.

Who is going to see this movie?

Teenage mutant Ninja Turtles has a bigger fanbase than Robotech - at least that's the impression I get...

Oh - and finally...

Why isn't there an inter-active RPG on robotech.com? I mean - you'd think Paladium and HG would be smart enough to create some kind of innovative web based role playing game or something...

Or is there one? (yes - I am too lazy to go check...)

Pete

[Gubaba]

Gubaba, sounds like you're asking for an apology from Pizza. Come on, the kid didn't mean to call you a Nazi!

Or a "son of a hoe"(sic), or a sissy, or a sppiled teenager, or any of the other brilliant things he's said, I'm sure.

Nah, that's not it. I just figure this isn't the website for anyone who calls Macross and its sequels "Japcrap." He was a constant problem at the other sites, and he's shown, repeatedly, that he can behave only for short periods of time before acting like a brat and going on witch hunts here.

Now he's doing it to the D.o.L. rather than "Macross Purist Nazis," and he's mad at Memo rather than Seto. And anytime someone expresses doubt about him, he says, "Oh, well here's something ELSE Memo said to me..." as though we're all starving to get into the mind of Memo.

It doesn't sound to me like he's turned over a new leaf. It sounds more like he just has a new target. And so the idea of welcoming someone who's only contributions to the Robotech fandom have been A) accusing people of being Seto or HappyPenguins, B) saying why Frontier is a "farce" and why Macross sucks, C) asking questions like "Why are the Vajra the good guys at the end of Frontier?" and D) saying Harmony Gold "owes him a lot" and blaming everyone except himself for his own behavior...Well, it doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I'm sure he's a great guy, but his posts show an intolerance to disagreement and and a desire to create drama that's rather worrisome.

Have you heard JT's last couple of Randomcasts? He hit the nail on the head, I believe.

[Uxi]

I think Robotech still has some potential (though it will almost certainly be wasted). Certain aspects of it's story resonate more with American audience than Macross. In Robotech, the SDF-1 isn't just some tiny gunboat, it's Zor's fortress!!!11one!1 and it's crash on Earth (and the Zentradi pursuit of it) isn't just some random accident, but is all deliberate.

I do like the vast majority of Macross' official story MUCH better than the drek that's been turned out by HG, but in many ways, I don't find Macross' official progression as plausible (particularly the frequency and volume of the Super Long Range Emigration Fleets, cloning and OTM aside, though I do like the concept, execution, and evolution itself).

Mostly, HG should do two things:

1) Revisit The Sentinels. The concept is sound IMO ... the abortion of their earlier execution is a blessing in disguise. Re-use that concept but execute it better. Don't use silly cartoon aliens, can probably keep most of the names in place, but instead give them all some cool and unique mecha of their own while they fight the Regent and the Invid evolving a different direction than that of the Refles. Done right, it could be a legitimate sequel to Mospeada for the Japanese market (and a variant subtitled version released as a domestic 'exclusive' or limited edition). Get rid of the Southern Cross spandex and focus on Cyclones and the move from the regular Alpha/Beta to Shadow tech in response to the Invid. Still haven't seen Shadow Chronicles but from what I hear it sounds like a travesty, so this would be an opportunity to either "certain point of view" or just redo it.

2) Make nice with BW/SN. This is business... they don't have to like each other. Right now, BW/SN are getting peanuts from international Macross through the grey market and what not. HG could license and promote/distribute the Macross sequels unaltered. Realistically, this would still be niche. That could lead to 2b) Robotech Adaptations

Robotech DYRL: Movie in a movie that came out shortly before the launch of the Pioneer Mission

Robotech 2012: New colony ship based on the SDF1/2 design?

Robotech Plus: Testing new valkyr... ahem, veritech design to replace the VF-11, which replaced the Alpha/Beta.

Robotech Seven: Max leads a colony expedition on the way looking for the SDF-3 meanwhile they get attacked by the Protodevlin, who were presumably woken up by the Robotech Masters. Dubbed/new music, hopefully not too corny. Mylene retconned as Maia?

Robotech Frontier: Another colony mission gets attacked by the Vajra. Grace O'Connor/Galaxy has been getting the ambition to emulate the Robotech Masters?

[Gubaba]

I think Robotech still has some potential (though it will almost certainly be wasted). Certain aspects of it's story resonate more with American audience than Macross. In Robotech, the SDF-1 isn't just some tiny gunboat, it's Zor's fortress!!!11one!1 and it's crash on Earth (and the Zentradi pursuit of it) isn't just some random accident, but is all deliberate.

I do like the vast majority of Macross' official story MUCH better than the drek that's been turned out by HG, but in many ways, I don't find Macross' official progression as plausible (particularly the frequency and volume of the Super Long Range Emigration Fleets, cloning and OTM aside, though I do like the concept, execution, and evolution itself).

Mostly, HG should do two things:

1) Revisit The Sentinels. The concept is sound IMO ... the abortion of their earlier execution is a blessing in disguise. Re-use that concept but execute it better. Don't use silly cartoon aliens, can probably keep most of the names in place, but instead give them all some cool and unique mecha of their own while they fight the Regent and the Invid evolving a different direction than that of the Refles. Done right, it could be a legitimate sequel to Mospeada for the Japanese market (and a variant subtitled version released as a domestic 'exclusive' or limited edition). Get rid of the Southern Cross spandex and focus on Cyclones and the move from the regular Alpha/Beta to Shadow tech in response to the Invid. Still haven't seen Shadow Chronicles but from what I hear it sounds like a travesty, so this would be an opportunity to either "certain point of view" or just redo it.

2) Make nice with BW/SN. This is business... they don't have to like each other. Right now, BW/SN are getting peanuts from international Macross through the grey market and what not. HG could license and promote/distribute the Macross sequels unaltered. Realistically, this would still be niche. That could lead to 2b) Robotech Adaptations

Robotech DYRL: Movie in a movie that came out shortly before the launch of the Pioneer Mission

Robotech 2012: New colony ship based on the SDF1/2 design?

Robotech Plus: Testing new valkyr... ahem, veritech design to replace the VF-11, which replaced the Alpha/Beta.

Robotech Seven: Max leads a colony expedition on the way looking for the SDF-3 meanwhile they get attacked by the Protodevlin, who were presumably woken up by the Robotech Masters. Dubbed/new music, hopefully not too corny. Mylene retconned as Maia?

Robotech Frontier: Another colony mission gets attacked by the Vajra. Grace O'Connor/Galaxy has been getting the ambition to emulate the Robotech Masters?

Um...you ARE joking...right?

[Roy Focker]

HG like most companies have their sweaty, wart covered hoofs in many types of business.

Any company with a stake in a "creative" property will have lawyers looking out for their interest. HG might have not even told them to send out a C&D letter. Might just be an automatic service by their lawyers.

[Saraphys]

Like I said... no such animal. Now if you'll excuse me, Sasquatch and I are off to go hunt grays and Chupacabras in Atlantis with Tesla's death ray.

Can the God of Abraham and I come along? We have a bet with Poseidon!

But all along Transformers has been given a multi-verse explanation - something called the Unified Theory or something like that...multiple dimmensions - the only CONSTANT is Unicron - the giant transforming planet - and he goes from dimmension to dimmension eating them.

Ummm...Cybertron is in every Universe aswell... or should that be Primus?

Now - take it or leave it, love it or hate it - there's a generally coherent story arc there. My biggest beef with the TFs is that while I accept that the story is coherent - I no longer find it compelling. I would much prefer to leave all these flat one dimmensional characters behind and follow up on grand adventures in ONE time line (the original one).... And I also have come to find the toys irredeemably ugly...

Dont you have the Takara reissued versions of the originals over there? Awwe...poor thing. Diecast Megatron and I wish you the best then... Skywarp would too, but he's in the other room...

I think Robotech still has some potential (though it will almost certainly be wasted). Certain aspects of it's story resonate more with American audience than Macross.

THATS why i dont get Robotech... because its aimed at Americans!

[Pizza the Hutt]

Gubaba

You said that I never irritated you or made you mad yet you continue to display disgust and frustration over the things I told you in PMsgs (even tho you reworded alot) but it is a clear indication you cannot let go of the past because you too sore over it,otherwise you would forget about it..By the way Gubaba I never posted the hate mail I got from you and others (that were very vulgar and candid),so in a sense I am trying to be the better person to let things go while you harp on the past problems because you are too sore to see me as a Macross fan too. And I am not trying to display Seto Kaiba as a crutch or "body gaurd" here but he does know I been interested in Macross for a good while now.

So Gubaba,I am not here to prove myself to anyone,just trying to get along as a Macross fan so you GOML

[Gubaba]

Gubaba

You said that I never irritated you or made you mad yet you continue to display disgust and frustration over the things I told you in PMsgs (even tho you reworded alot) but it is a clear indication you cannot let go of the past because you too sore over it,otherwise you would forget about it..By the way Gubaba I never posted the hate mail I got from you and others (that were very vulgar and candid),so in a sense I am trying to be the better person to let things go while you harp on the past problems because you are too sore to see me as a Macross fan too. And I am not trying to display Seto Kaiba as a crutch or "body gaurd" here but he does know I been interested in Macross for a good while now.

So Gubaba,I am not here to prove myself to anyone,just trying to get along as a Macross fan so you GOML

We can continue this over PMs, if you like.

[Uxi]

Um...you ARE joking...right?

Partially, especially with number 2. I think they should eventually come to an agreement for international distribution. I think that unfortunately a dub of some sort would be necessary for any real measure of success and that they wouldn't be able to resist an adaptation at the same part.

[Saraphys]

We can continue this over PMs, if you like.

Please dont... I haven't had a good laugh in HOURS!!!

[Seto Kaiba]

Thanks for the back story Seto - I particularly didn't know about the history with regard to the 2001 reboot, and how people think everything between 87 and 2001 is crap or "not Robotech."

Really, it's the attitude that all of the material produced between '87 and '01 isn't really Robotech and isn't worth bothering with that motivated all of the witch hunting that's gone on ever since the fanbase went online. Initially, pretty much any mention of material from the comics or novels in a debate or discussion just got dismissed as irrelevant, but eventually it turned hostile. By the time I'd registered on Robotech.com, just mentioning something from the McKinney novels or the old comics was enough to make participants on both sides round on you and tell you to take your totally irrelevant crap elsewhere. It was only after they scourged the McKinneyists and Spanglerists from Robotech.com that they turned on the fans who also enjoyed the original Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada. They lumped the dissatisfied fans in there too under the assumption that they were secretly Macross fans working to undermine Robotech, and started trying to get the lot of them banned.

Now that they've scourged the "Macross Purist Trolls" from their midst, they've once again rounded on each other and started fights among fans who prefer one saga to another, or who like one character and can't stand to see him or her criticized in any way.

It's really hard to muster any enthusiasm for Robotech at all when the fanbase has spent at least 10 of the last 25 years tearing itself to pieces over matters of personal preference, and the franchise's creators haven't had an original idea in at least 24 years.

This is why you have a hundred zillion possible versions of Optimus Prime and NONE of the different shows contradict eachother (even though they seem to) - it's because each time line is in a seperate dimmension - and only Unicron has access to all of them (although sometimes TFs will travel from one dimmension to another--- like in the Dreamwave comic written by Furman "Worlds Collide").

Now, if Tommy had taken that approach with Robotech, the fanbase might not be the colossal mess of infighting it is today. Of course, the old comics are so badly written, so shot through with internal inconsistencies, and incompatible with each other in so many cases that the only way to divide them up into universes would be to make each and every title its own universe... and that kind of defeats the point of doing it in the first place. The inconsistent nature of the work done without oversight back when Harmony Gold was whoring the license out to whoever wanted it essentially doomed all of comics to being little more than a widely scorned collection of non-canon side stories that don't matter to the "one true timeline".

With Robotech --- it is kind of strange ...because...after 1987...the closer we get to the 90s....well...by the time the internet showed up - wouldn't more and more people have discovered that Robotech was actually comprised of three seperate anime?

Oh they knew... they just want to keep living the lie that Carl Macek, and later Tommy Yune, were selling... that the originals are inferior, unpopular shows that were vastly improved by their inclusion in Robotech. By the time the 90's rolled around, the only people left in the Robotech fanbase were the obsessive fans who were convinced for whatever reason that Robotech was the best show ever, and continued to buy the weak comics and novels which kept the franchise limping along. Those are the people who would've found the idea that Robotech wasn't just as good as, or better than, the Japanese originals profoundly offensive. All but the most obsessed among them gave up eventually after Macek and Harmony Gold's licensees produced a seemingly never-ending succession of failures.

This is why I find it bizarre that there is ANY talk of a LAM and Warner Bros and Tobey Macguire. Robotech is dead. Nobody remembers it. Why would anybody want to make a movie of this thing? Because there's a fanbase that will pay to see it? Who? Memo and Doug Bendo? Doug's "9 thousand lessoners."

Some folks close to Harmony Gold have alluded to Warner having been motivated to pick up the Robotech license by a desire to get in on the frankly ridiculous amounts of money Paramount's live-action Transformers was making and do it cheaply rather than any actual belief that Robotech was popular. I think the general school of thought was that they'd take a title people vaguely remembered from the 80's, redo it, and roll it out for a revival in hopes of making scads of money with a mindless summer action flick that preys on nostalgia. More fool them, of course, since they picked a real dud full of material they can't legally use.

Why isn't there an inter-active RPG on robotech.com? I mean - you'd think Paladium and HG would be smart enough to create some kind of innovative web based role playing game or something...

You mean like a MMORPG, something like Habbo Hotel, or what? Either way, it costs money to develop crap like that, and Harmony Gold has likely been convinced that it's just not worth the trouble. After all, they went to the trouble of having a dice rolling system added to their forums so people could play the new Palladium RPG... and NOBODY's playing. The dice roll system just became the topic-bumping spam method of choice in the areas it was enabled in. Similarly, their attempt at online console gameplay, Robotech: Invasion, sold bugger-all and the game was so utterly lackluster that within weeks of it going on sale it was virtually impossible to find an online game to play in and Harmony Gold had the servers taken down because they weren't being used.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[azrael]

We can continue this over PMs, if you like.

Yes kids, take it to PM, or I'll force you. (Az is being gracious. I suggest you follow the advice.)

[Pizza the Hutt]

Uxi

I think Robotech still has some potential (though it will almost certainly be wasted).

I will have to use some of Memo's powers to say this,allow me to put on a fish sombrero and raise keyboard and yell "Captain CAAAAAAAAPS LOOOOOOOCK"

OKAY WB ACQUIRED THE RIGHTS FROM HARMONY GOLD TO MAKE A LAM THAT PUT SHADOW RISING

KEEPS TOYNAMI AS A PRODUCT COMPANY FOR ROBOTECH

SHADOW RISING BEEN ON HIATUS FOR SAKES OF THE RLAM

STEVE SAID AT A CONVENTION RECENTLY THAT HG TRIED TO LICENSE MACROSS 7 AND WOULD LOVE TO BRING MORE MACROSS SO THAT IS A NICE MOVE FOR THE FANS

ACCORDING TO SOME ONE THE SHADOW BETAS ARE CANCELLED

ROBOTECH IS GETTING A MOVIE MADE BY WB

MY BEST FRIEND ON EARTH KEVIN MCKEEVER SAID THINGS ARE HAPPENING

WE HAVE A WEBSITE THAT HAS HAD PRODUCTS OUT OF STOCK FOR MONTHS AND WE LOVE SHADOW CHRONICLES BUT TOO STOOPID TO ADD SHADOW CHRONICKES TO RT.COM WEBSITE BUT WE STILL LOVE IT

ROBOTECH REPEATS THE SAME NEWS AT CONVENTIONS

ROBOTECH WILL GET A MOVIE MADE BY WB

[Funkenstein]

Partially, especially with number 2. I think they should eventually come to an agreement for international distribution. I think that unfortunately a dub of some sort would be necessary for any real measure of success and that they wouldn't be able to resist an adaptation at the same part.

It wont happen, for the most part because HG would have to license both the animation and the music. And the music is quite expensive, considering the caliber of the artists that worked on it. Think of it this way, Macross Frontier was the first anime since Evangelion that has had sound tracks sell in excess of 500k copies. HG would be crazy to think they can cheaply license that. And if they make their own songs, it would be terrible to listen to , since they'll probably get their voice actors to do the singing. Even then, the voice actors would probably ask for double or triple fees for doing songs. The anime market has progressed very far from the 80's. VA's know how important they are to a show now and they'll ask for fees accordingly.

As for the adaptations of Macross, considering that the Robotech universe is in a continuous state of war with no actual signs of attempts at peaceful efforts such as long range emigration, the two series's would be incompatible save for some kind of interdimensional retcon to making any of it make sense. Lets not forget that the mechanical designs of both series' have diverged wildly, with Robotech still using 80's mecha design.

[Uxi]

It wont happen, for the most part because HG would have to license both the animation and the music. And the music is quite expensive, considering the caliber of the artists that worked on it. Think of it this way, Macross Frontier was the first anime since Evangelion that has had sound tracks sell in excess of 500k copies. HG would be crazy to think they can cheaply license that. And if they make their own songs, it would be terrible to listen to , since they'll probably get their voice actors to do the singing. Even then, the voice actors would probably ask for double or triple fees for doing songs. The anime market has progressed very far from the 80's. VA's know how important they are to a show now and they'll ask for fees accordingly.

I definitely think they would Reba West it before licensing it (wouldn't make sense to have them singing in Japanese/Engrish when the voices were English anyway). VA's would almost certainly be cheaper than licensing and yes, it would be undoubtedly corny. I find some of the J-pop catchy tunes, but let's face it, it would still be "cartoon music" here and not much chance of the same real life concert/music success domestically even if they used Lady Gaga or the like.

As for the adaptations of Macross, considering that the Robotech universe is in a continuous state of war with no actual signs of attempts at peaceful efforts such as long range emigration, the two series's would be incompatible save for some kind of interdimensional retcon to making any of it make sense. Lets not forget that the mechanical designs of both series' have diverged wildly, with Robotech still using 80's mecha design.

The basic idea of the Emgiration would make even more sense, particularly with the Invid invasion. In Robotech, they have greater motivation to avoid the extinction of the species and should be more cognizant of the danger. In Macross, can you imagine the political argument over the continued gigantic expeditions, in the lack of evidence of increased attacks on Earth?

Robotech doesn't need to KEEP using 80's mecha. We're still using 70's aircraft in the US. The transition to 2000s aircraft has proven expensive with very many people poo-pooing the idea of new more capable fighters like the F-22A (and hell look at the shrinkage in the order). UN Spacy must have had limitless budgets and no crazy domestic spending with the huge amount of designs they went through (even if we assume all the VF-teens except the 11 and 19 were largely niche and didn't proliferate very wide)

Edited February 19, 2010 by Uxi

[Funkenstein]

Why would they have to license the music? They would just Reba West it, woudln't they?

Thats the obvious solution, but definitely not one that people would want to hear. Especially if Reba West tries to sing again.

[Seto Kaiba]

I will have to use some of Memo's powers to say this,allow me to put on a fish sombrero and raise keyboard and yell "Captain CAAAAAAAAPS LOOOOOOOCK"

Was that a Captain Caveman reference? If so, bravo...

WE HAVE A WEBSITE THAT HAS HAD PRODUCTS OUT OF STOCK FOR MONTHS AND WE LOVE SHADOW CHRONICLES BUT TOO STOOPID TO ADD SHADOW CHRONICKES TO RT.COM WEBSITE BUT WE STILL LOVE IT

Well, it's a safe bet that Harmony Gold's reluctance to add character and mecha data from Shadow Chronicles to the Robotech.com Infopedia is motivated by the belief that doing so will remove the primary motivation for fans to buy things like The Art of Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles and the new Palladium RPG. Now, if you know anything about the old Palladium RPG, you'll know they have good grounds for thinking this. The majority of fans who're buying the Palladium RPG aren't buying it to play the game... they're buying it because it's the closest that any Robotech publication has come to being a tech manual. If they make the information in those books available for free, there's no reason for anyone to buy the books.