How many micromissiles in advanced VF

[Uxi]

How many micro missiles are stored in the internal magazines for VF-17, VF-19, and VF-22? The Compendium gives the amount of launchers, but not the size of the magazines (except for VF-19).

VF-17 (2 launchers, one per side, each with 2 ports).

VF-19 "Two internal Little Rock launch systems in lower leg/engine-pod bays for 12 [24] high maneuverability micro missiles (VF-19F, VF-19S only) or six medium-range high maneuverability missiles each (Pallet can be alternately equipped with other weapon packs)" Animation from Macross 7 shows Basara had 6 missiles on his leg. The recycled footage of Docker firing would seem to match that.

VF-22 (4 launchers, 4 exit ports dorsal, 4 ventral).

Steel Falcon usually gets it wrong by calling each exit port an individual launcher and gives the following:

VF-17: 4 launchers, 2 per side, each with 4 missiles for 16 total.

VF-19: 24 per launcher, 2 launchers per leg for 48 total

VF-22: 12 per launcher, 4 x paired launchers for 48 total

Has the Chronicles shed any detail on this? Searching the thread doesn't appear to reveal that to me....

[Seto Kaiba]

How many micro missiles are stored in the internal magazines for VF-17, VF-19, and VF-22? The Compendium gives the amount of launchers, but not the size of the magazines (except for VF-19).

[...]

Has the Chronicles shed any detail on this? Searching the thread doesn't appear to reveal that to me....

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but apart from confirming the 2x12 figure for the VF-19's leg launchers, it doesn't look like Macross Chronicle has shed any additional light on the capacity of the micro-missile launchers used on the VF-17, VF-19, and VF-22. I've checked Macross Plus U.N. Spacy mechanic sheets 01A-C (YF-19), 02A-B (YF-21), Macross 7 mechanic sheets 02A-B (VF-19 Kai), 04A (VF-17T), 05A (VF-22S), 07A-C (VF-17), 08A (VF-19), and Macross Dynamite 7 mechanic sheets 02A (VF-22S) and 03A (VF-19P), and unfortunately aside from the VF-19F/S sheet and VF-19 Kai sheet, none of them mention the capacity of the internal missile launchers, just the number of launchers and their location on the airframe.

[VFTF1]

it doesn't look like Macross Chronicle has shed any additional light on the capacity of the micro-missile launchers used on the VF-17, VF-19, and VF-22.

Scandalous!

Pete

[Valkyrie addict]

I'd like to think that in an universe of song energy this VF's are so technologically advanced that the micromissiles are fold directly to the VF from the armory

[Seto Kaiba]

I'd like to think that in an universe of song energy this VF's are so technologically advanced that the micromissiles are fold directly to the VF from the armory

Better hope that "theory" doesn't reach Kawamori's ears... he'd probably make it official. Macross 7 Trash already gave us VF-4G's equipped with spirita weapons.

[Macross_Fanboy]

Better hope that "theory" doesn't reach Kawamori's ears... he'd probably make it official. Macross 7 Trash already gave us VF-4G's equipped with spirita weapons.

What's wrong with that?

[Uxi]

Any speculation on the capacities? I'm gonna have to watch a few episodes and see if it's possible to count the number of missiles coming out of Gamlin's VF-17 now. The VF-22's look really hard, too. I'm thinking VF-19's 12 'medium' or 24 'light' are the upper limit for any of the others, especially given VF-19's relatively unique delivery system. VF-17 is limited to launching 4 at a time (still, it's gotta be similar to the VF-11's FP launchers and that thing pumps them out pretty quick in the M7 footage).

VF-11's system should probably be on the table, too since it should be the same generational platform as the VF-17's.

For that matter, what are the yields of these micro-missiles? And is the type ever given or hinted anywhere? Certainly not the same ones they were using in the GBP-1 or the like.

[Ginrai]

But Mikimoto did Trash, not Kawamori?

[aquilon]

I'd like to think that in an universe of song energy this VF's are so technologically advanced that the micromissiles are fold directly to the VF from the armory

ROFLMAO.......but to gather myself, I would say capacity is Hollywoodian....

[sketchley]

Any speculation on the capacities? I'm gonna have to watch a few episodes and see if it's possible to count the number of missiles coming out of Gamlin's VF-17 now. The VF-22's look really hard, too. I'm thinking VF-19's 12 'medium' or 24 'light' are the upper limit for any of the others, especially given VF-19's relatively unique delivery system. VF-17 is limited to launching 4 at a time (still, it's gotta be similar to the VF-11's FP launchers and that thing pumps them out pretty quick in the M7 footage).

VF-11's system should probably be on the table, too since it should be the same generational platform as the VF-17's.

For that matter, what are the yields of these micro-missiles? And is the type ever given or hinted anywhere? Certainly not the same ones they were using in the GBP-1 or the like.

Given the dearth of information, I'd say that engine nacelle launchers have a similar maximum capacity to that indicated for the VF-19 (12 micromissiles, total), and any other launcher having a similar capacity to those in the HMMP-02 missile launcher pods of the Super VF-1 (3 micro-missiles per launcher).

It's a safe guesstimate, IMHO, as the launchers are in places where there is a lot of other equipment crammed in (case in point: VF-17 shoulders have the missile launchers, as well as a shoulder joint for the arm and a shoulder pivot for the shoulder, and a manuevering thruster.)

The yields are variable depending on the needs of the plot and the animation budget.

[Graham]

Many years ago, I spent a great deal of time studying the VF-17 line art, animation, 1/65 toys, 1/144 pla-models and 1/100 garage kits and came to the conclusion that there is very little storage space available in the VF-17's shoulders for the micro-misiles.

I reckon the total is either 2, 3 or at most 4 micro-missiles per launcher, which would give a capacity of either 4, 6, or 8 micro-missiles per shoulder, but no more than that.

The VF-17 has always been more of a gunship than a missile fighter IMO, given its extremely heavy gun armament (gunpod w/beam adaptor + wrist/elbow beam guns + chest beam guns + head lasers).

Graham

[RedWolf]

Better hope that "theory" doesn't reach Kawamori's ears... he'd probably make it official. Macross 7 Trash already gave us VF-4G's equipped with spirita weapons.

Really? I thought the Mind System was something independently developed.

[Seto Kaiba]

I reckon the total is either 2, 3 or at most 4 micro-missiles per launcher, which would give a capacity of either 4, 6, or 8 micro-missiles per shoulder, but no more than that.

It looks like we all came to more or less the same estimate of ~12 missiles overall for the VF-17's launcher assemblies, and I'd wager the same (or similar) figure probably applies to the VF-22 (which, I guess, would mean Guld probably launched his entire complement of micro-missiles in that rage-fueled attempt to destroy Isamu's YF-19) since it's a similarly cramped fuselage. In the animation, those micro-missile launchers are always going to be (to use Kouta Hirano's word) "Cosmoguns" which hold exactly enough ammunition to run out either when it's dramatic or right after the last enemy is dead.

Really? I thought the Mind System was something independently developed.

Eh, weren't the antipersonnel-scale spirita beam weapons used in the latter part of the manga offshoots of that technology anyway?

[VFTF1]

Hm.

I know it's time for bed when I look at this thread and see "How Many Micronians Can you fit into a VW?" instead of what the actual thread title is.

Goodnight!

Pete

[Uxi]

I'm gonna see if I can get a count of Max's missiles fired on Varauta.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Take the size of the likely ammo bay, and the size of a micro missile, figure out how many such missiles can fit in that bay and add 40 to compensate for Anime Magic.*

I once made a custom valk design, and I was able to strap a total of 42 Sidewinders on it. So, there's probably more room than you'd expect in an airframe, assuming minimal components and minimal armor. This valk was only a touch larger than a VF-11.

*70 if it's a Gundam, 90 if its action scenes were choreographed by Ichiro Itano.

[Uxi]

Well we know things like external hardpoints for fighters/bombers have limits other than the available surface area. The same concept would hold for micro-missiles, as well. Their mass and volume must be accounted for, but also the position on the airframe, as well as balancing the firing (don't want them to predominantly fire from one side or the valk would lose it's balance/center of gravity, etc). Other issues that would be prime on designers minds are effects of damage (if a hit could/would detonate a carried weapon, etc), what the secondary explosions, could would do, etc. To that end, having them in the cramped shoulders of the VF-17 makes a certain amount of sense, for example. If the micro-missiles, explode while carried, it takes the arm off with it, but don't lose the whole valk. Legs of the VF-19 are a bit more critical (since that's where the engines are), but it may have that they designed that external panel of the leg to blow out and reinforced the interior of the leg where it faces the ammunition magazine. VF-22 doesn't seem as good of a spot, but since it's a spec ops valk piloted by elite pilots, it may be discounted (and/or VF-22 could have special, more dense armor, use of the pinpoint barrier, etc).

I'm discounting more anime magic because Kawamori designs these to be relatively workable. Sure, it's still anime, but SK's designs are usually well engineered conceptually, if you can accept the premises of overtechnology and what not, which most of us do.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Uxi

[Cpt_Gloval]

....... , if you can accept the premises of overtechnology and what not, which most of us do.

You mean OTEC isn't real?!?!?

goes in a corner and cries...

[Uxi]

Heh, well most of us do. I put that in there to preclude the most obvious response of "anime magic."

[valk1j]

What about these in the VF-17?

[sketchley]

Those would be the weapon bays (weapon pallets I believe the term was, in regards to M+ and M7. MF has given them different names), and are seperate from micro-missile launchers.

That said, micro-missile launchers tend to be put into them. The VF-171, VF-171EX, and VF-22 are good examples of weapon bays with micro-missile launchers. Other uses are the B-7 Internal Pallet (with BMM-24 High manueverability micromissiles) and the B-11A Internal pallet, with larger missiles. Either reaction missiles (M7) or missiles that launch a host of micro-missiles (M+).

[Uxi]

Going through Disc 15 of the (patched) M7 Remastered and here's a shot of VF-17 firing it's missiles. Think Gamlin blew his whole wad there, trying to create an avalanche to stop that flood?

[Uxi]

Here's a shot of Gamlin's VF-22 in Battroid, from MD7:

8 missiles

Edited January 30, 2010 by Uxi

[miles316]

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/apkws-...dd-phase-02193/

I think the Micro Missile has arrived, or its immediate ancestor.

A Conversion kit that turns a Hydra 2in Rocket into a cheep LASER guided missile.

Attack Helicopters can Carry dozens of them in a Rocket pod carrying several on a Apache.