VFTF1 Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 Interesting to hear that the story veers into a bit of unknown territory. I will have my copy of Macross The First #3 in hand some time in June... Pete Quote
VF5SS Posted May 29, 2012 Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) What about the tiny blisters on the top of the VF-1? They'd be on the shoulder blades in battroid - which the VF-0 had huge ones due to different tech. Aren't they also the fuel tanks? The Master File doesn't seem to say anything about them. I think they're just the same thing they are on the F-14. Little fins for aerodynamic stability. Edited May 29, 2012 by VF5SS Quote
TehPW Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 What about the tiny blisters on the top of the VF-1? They'd be on the shoulder blades in battroid - which the VF-0 had huge ones due to different tech. Aren't they also the fuel tanks? The Master File doesn't seem to say anything about them. I think they're just the same thing they are on the F-14. Little fins for aerodynamic stability. maybe. if they were intended to affect flight, then they would be sharper. dont they connect with the Fast Packs? another possibly is that they antenna recievers or some other kind of radio reception (you have to look at a 1980-81 F-14 & F-15 to understand what K was thinking when he first did the line art on the finalized VF-1 for SDF-M to be sure) *glances at some pics* id have to ask my Dad since he's a Tomcat expert but id agree with the flight/air flow stablity rational for those shoulder bulges... Quote
sketchley Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 The reason I ask is because in ep 8: Sweet Sixteen, on one of Hikaru's first missions as a squadron ldr he notices Kakizaki's got a fuel leak after a brief skirmish--but the leak's sprung at the plane's nose, right where the nose gear would be! This is a bit simpler to explain: the leaking fuel isn't the fuel used in the reaction jets, but the nose vernier thrusters. What about the tiny blisters on the top of the VF-1? They'd be on the shoulder blades in battroid - which the VF-0 had huge ones due to different tech. Aren't they also the fuel tanks? As someone has mentioned, the VF-1 has them because the F-14 had them. The VF-0's are different. They are conformal fuel tanks that are purge-able. Quote
Talos Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) As someone has mentioned, the VF-1 has them because the F-14 had them. The VF-0's are different. They are conformal fuel tanks that are purge-able. maybe. if they were intended to affect flight, then they would be sharper. dont they connect with the Fast Packs? another possibly is that they antenna recievers or some other kind of radio reception (you have to look at a 1980-81 F-14 & F-15 to understand what K was thinking when he first did the line art on the finalized VF-1 for SDF-M to be sure) *glances at some pics* id have to ask my Dad since he's a Tomcat expert but id agree with the flight/air flow stablity rational for those shoulder bulges... On the F-14 those four fins are actually structural stiffeners which correct a structural weakness in the central fuselage of the plane. The prototypes and early pre-production models don't have them. Had production gone ahead with them, the enhanced F-14s like Tomcat-21 would have had widened wing gloves outboard and above the intakes that would have both increased fuel payload by a nice amount and helped further correct that issue. Don't know where the fuel is stored but I'll answer this one. Thermonuclear reaction engines basically provide power, as in electricity. That electricity is used to heat your propellent. In atmosphere, that propellent would be air, like any real-life modern jet engine. In space, there is no air. So they need something to propel themselves with. That would be some kind of chemical propellent (think rocket). Exactly, Azrael. That basically means that the VF-1 and any of these fighters with thermonuclear reaction engines have incredible range in atmosphere. I remember a couple years ago I crunched some numbers I found in a NASA paper about a theoretical hybrid colliding beam fusion reactor that could power aircraft. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head. Anyway, going by the low end of the theoretical numbers they had, and putting it into the thrust range of the VF-1 (basically building a turbojet around a cylindrical fusion reactor, which is what the paper was about), it generated a number of something like 2.8 times around the world per pound of reactants for the reactor. In space, on the other hand, the range would be incredibly short in the VF-1. The FAST packs make a lot of sense there. Of course the VF-4 ended up being basically a pair of Strike packs integrated into the airframe of the plane (rocket boosters and beam cannons), along with the TV VF-1's missile armament (12 AAM-1s) integrated into the fuselage without using a single wing hardpoint. Edited May 30, 2012 by Talos Quote
reddsun1 Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 Ah, many thanks for the responses, guys! Very interesting. Quote
sketchley Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 Exactly, Azrael. That basically means that the VF-1 and any of these fighters with thermonuclear reaction engines have incredible range in atmosphere. GM.DX 4 has some better numbers (official setting): VF-1A Valkyrie (...) Cruising Range: infinite Of course, it goes without saying that that range is within atmosphere and doesn't take into consideration the fuel load for the liquid rocket auxiliary engines, oxygen supplies, pilot endurance and batteries (if any exist that aren't fed power from the reaction engines)... Of course the VF-4 ended up being basically a pair of Strike packs integrated into the airframe of the plane (rocket boosters and beam cannons), along with the TV VF-1's missile armament (12 AAM-1s) integrated into the fuselage without using a single wing hardpoint. That's a very interesting way to define it. MC basically states that its a 40% improvement on the VF-1, has increased fuselage volume for things like propellant and armaments, and has some problems with atmospheric manoeuvrability performance... which are all as you said: basically a VF-1 with FAST packs integrated into it. Quote
reddsun1 Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 This may have been linked in a previous post--apologies if redundant. But, I've found an English translation available online here: http://www.mangareader.net/choujikuu-yousai-macross-the-first I've just started checking out Chapter 1. 1st impressions: the artwork is outstanding. The character and mecha designs look DYRL derived, so I'll treat this as the same: a fictional re-telling of the story within the Macross universe, just like DYRL. So I figure: no point in getting all out of sorts at the changes and differences from Mac tv, which I happen to prefer. Haven't finished Ch 1 yet, but will continue reading. Quote
Talos Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 GM.DX 4 has some better numbers (official setting): Yep. I didn't want to say infinite without having the reference in front of me, but you're right. For all intents and purposes, your pilot is going to need refueling before your VF-1 in atmosphere. That's a very interesting way to define it. MC basically states that its a 40% improvement on the VF-1, has increased fuselage volume for things like propellant and armaments, and has some problems with atmospheric manoeuvrability performance... which are all as you said: basically a VF-1 with FAST packs integrated into it. That thought struck me when I was researching it and doing all those VF-4 profiles a couple years ago. To me it makes perfect sense, any extra capabilities you had to add for the previous generation, make them standard on the newer one in a more streamlined package that doesn't take up any mounting space. Even with thouse manoeuverability problems, a VF-4 can still flying there, unlike a Super or Strike VF-1. This doesn't even take into account all the weapons hardpoints and possibility for FAST packs on top of the integrated VF-4 weapons. Speaking of which, maybe we'll see it make an appearance at the end of the manga. Quote
sketchley Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 Speaking of which, maybe we'll see it make an appearance at the end of the manga. It's already appeared. During the Mars Base - future/past Super Dimensional Mishap arc. Quote
Talos Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 It's already appeared. During the Mars Base - future/past Super Dimensional Mishap ™ arc. Oh yeah, I remember reading about that on here. I guess I'll see that when I grab vol 3 and 4 in a couple weeks. Quote
Mommar Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 Really? The 4 showed up in the Manga? I don't remember reading about that. Quote
UN Spacy Posted May 31, 2012 Posted May 31, 2012 Oh hey....my waifu....looking good there obasaan. Quote
Reïvaj Posted May 31, 2012 Posted May 31, 2012 Oh hey....my waifu....looking good there obasaan. Your wife? She's mine! Quote
Marzan Posted May 31, 2012 Posted May 31, 2012 Oh hey....my waifu....looking good there obasaan. Easy there. She'd slap you for calling her obasaan and insist you address her as Hayase Shosa. Quote
Jasonc Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) This may have been linked in a previous post--apologies if redundant. But, I've found an English translation available online here: http://www.mangaread...cross-the-first I've just started checking out Chapter 1. 1st impressions: the artwork is outstanding. The character and mecha designs look DYRL derived, so I'll treat this as the same: a fictional re-telling of the story within the Macross universe, just like DYRL. So I figure: no point in getting all out of sorts at the changes and differences from Mac tv, which I happen to prefer. Haven't finished Ch 1 yet, but will continue reading. I like our translation and application of the translation better. Edited June 1, 2012 by Jasonc Quote
GMANIFESS Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 I like our translation and application of the translation better. WORD? Where is this other better translation at? I didn't know there were multiple efforts of translating this. Quote
ps99042 Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Has anyone translated volume 3? I'm still looking for volume 2... Quote
GMANIFESS Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 WOW.... i see VF-1S with a super pack but i have no idea what the hell else is going on in that pic.... Quote
jvmacross Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Super pack with Defender and Tomahawk gun cannons? Desperate times call for desperate measures aboard the SDF-1? Quote
VF5SS Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Sketchly mentioned these earlier, these are the three Super Pack variations in Macross the First Super Attack Super Cruiser Super Maneuver Quote
Jasonc Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 For those interested, and are on Facebook, there's a page started for Macross the First. Look it up, like the page, and drop me a line letting me know you're from here. facebook.com/MacrosstheFirst Quote
VF5SS Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 I like how all the characters are super shocked by these things. Quote
Talos Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Interesting, interesting. I can't help but be reminded of Aoba's VF-1X++ from Macross the Ride with the Super-Maneuver pack, especially that nose segment and the pieces attached to the wing gloves/chest plate. Quote
Rabidweezil Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 I like how all the characters are super shocked by these things. Claudia is so shocked her right eye seems to have fallen out. Quote
Moly_Sigang Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Whoa... VF-1S with the Tomahawk's gun arm!? Quote
akt_m Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 I don't think this "Super Maneuver" was well designed... Super packs were made for space use, and it adds forward canards... Quote
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