Bandai Treatment of Frontier

[Ghost Train]

So it's been nearly 1 year since Bandai has started releasing Frontier related merchandise with the 1/72 scale VF-25's.

Oooh, the debates on the initial chunky images of the DX VF-25 had first emerged, and Bandai/Yamato fanboys cried and cheered! ... Those were good times, fond memories of seeing grown men argue about the accuracy of toys... anyways, Bandai has had a chance to prove itself in making valkyries, what do you guys think? Here is my opinion:

> 1/72 VF-25s Model: Epic Win. Sleek, overall consistent with line-art, lots of customization options with custom decal sets.

> 1/60 VF-25s DX: Mixed Achievement. The chunkiness and overall toy-like appearance obviously was a minus, but the DX had a hint or durability that the models simply did not posses.

> VF100's: Fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail.

> Side-VF: A bit too early to tell, but with expectations set on being a non-transformable action figure with high poseability, it will probably have greater success than the VF100. Again, the issue here is slight amounts of chunkiness.

Edit: I give Bandai an overall B- score.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Ghost Train

[VFTF1]

My only real contribution here can be to note for posterity that I am amazed at how I came around to liking the DX after being initially unforgiving of its' many chunky faults. I stand by this opinion and am a happier possesor of all the DXs released to date, and am also looking forward to the DX lucifer.

I do agree that the model is fantastic, having built Ozma myself and I do indeed cherish him. But the delicacy is just too great to offer the play value of the DX, and the DX is in no way really inferior in any mode. I'm sure improvements can be made, and I imagine that if Bandai comes out with a version 2.0 DX, like Yamato did with the 1/60, then I might be inclined to chuck my old ones for the new ones - but as things stand I am most satisfied with them.

Pete

who talks in very high-minded tones when he's sick, because ilnness is like a step from death and he thinks dying people need to talk melodramatically I guess...

[chen]

I think they did all right, most fans were expecting Yamato like VF-25's made by Bandai but these are two different companies with totally different philosophies. Of course there are improvements that can be made but that's common with any new line and not just isolated too Bandai. Also it looks like Bandai is in it for the long run so you can only expect their Macross products to get better.

[Vifam7]

Thanks to Frontier, I'm just happy that Macross is getting that marketing push that it hadn't been seen since the original series. Books, magazines, manga, toys, models, figures, gashapons, soundtracks, anime movie, etc etc.

Despite a few questionable moves in the toys department, the overall feeling is positive.

If the sales of Macross merchandise is successful, then the chances of more Macross in the near future is good. I'd like that. I'd also like to think that many of us had a part in supporting Frontier and made it a success.

[505thAirborne]

Other than the 1/100 scale which I am glad to say I did not buy any just based on the negativity of just about everyone here on MW, the 1/72 kits a superb in just about every way, a little pricey, but well worth every penny.

The 1/60 DX, I like them as they are a good build, look awesome, fun to handle and yes some room for improvement... but very reminiscent of the 1/55 VF-1 Chunky monkeys!! So I like the 2 I have!!

And now that he Macross Quarter is finally coming out and looks awesome, I think Bandai is doing its best to pay homage to Macross Frontier.

I agree with Vifam7, this is the most exposure Macross as a whole has ever received since the original SDF-1 series, MF is win from all angles!!

[ff95gj]

Personally, I would grade the DX about the same as the VF100, if not lower. It looks like a product made 10 years ago, or from a small company who can't do 3-D CAD designs. The DX VF-27 looks good though.

On the other hand, I give high regards to the RD VF-25F, although I don't like the super mode.

[CF18]

Well there are other stuff too:

> Armor Plus EX-Gear Alto - unique and well received.

> 1:250 Fighter Collection - Overpriced, cover ignored series.

> DX Quarter - releasing soon, unique and looking good.

> Banpresto display models - new release. Looks so-so.

And there are figurines too.

The biggest negative are the exclusive and limited lucky draw figures.

[eugimon]

If we're grading on sheer quantity of stuff? A+

If we're grading on quality of stuff? Anywhere from passable to excellent from the looks of it.

Personally, I think the only fault in Bandai is that they released too much stuff, too quickly and some of the earlier products suffered in quality and design because of it... and that's not much of a knock at all.

So, praises to Bandai for finally taking macross seriously and getting behind it with a major merchandising push while simultaneously allowing their competitor access to older licenses.

[Zinjo]

Since I consider tranforming static model kits to be an oxymoron, I won't comment on them (however based on builder feedback on these forums I tend to think the the pain doesn't justify the impressive results).

The VF100 series was (is?) a failure due to the an instance of "going once too many times to the same well".

Bandai's fixation with making transforming Macross mecha of all sizes is its achilles heel.

When you have three competing lines and two of them are competing at the same price point, one of them is destined to be doomed. The skeptics were correct that a part swapping transforming toy/model would not go over well. Why get a 1/100 scale VF-25 when you can get a 1/72 scale snap together model out of the box for the same price. Add the itashi decals and the model kit gets the advantage.

I got the Tamashii limited edition VF-25's and they are truly stunning! The fighters don't transform and they were sold for less than a regular transforming VF100 as well as came in much smaller packaging. Now you couple that with a non-transforming battroid with the same outstanding sculpt quality and you are hitting the two major markets in Macross fandom, just ask Hasegawa!

The new VF-19Kai "model" is priced as high as the Armored VF-25F. At that price point the sales numbers will not recover Bandai's engineering investment in the thing.

IMHO, Bandai should continue to release this line as a Collector's display model line with both Fighter and Battroid versions for the collectors of all the initially promised valks. They should take some pointers from the HCM Pro team and release the models with and without decals and release the existing itashi decals in 1/100 scale. A lot less engineering goes into sculpting static and/or posable pieces as opposed to transfoming ones.

A GERWALK kit could be sold separately for those who want it and then Bandai would be fully exploiting it's molds (particularly for the VF-25 valks!).

This will at least fulfill the collector's market at a price point that makes them appealing and non-competitive to the other "transforming" lines.

Bandai needs to make its investment back on this line and repeating the same poor marketing plan and expecting a different result is insane...

[Graham]

Bandai, where's my frackin' DX VF-171 / VF-171EX?????

Nuff, said!

Graham

[VFTF1]

I love the high bar of critical thought set by the MW owners

On that note:

BANDAI WHERE'S MY 1:1 SCALE BLOW UP SHERYL SEX DOLL WITH SMOOTH JAZZ VERSION OF ALL HER SONGS FOR ALL THOSE LONELY NIGHTS!!???

Nuff said

Pete

[Graham]

On the quantity of Frontier products, Bandai have been doing pretty good and get an 8/10 from me. My only complaints are the omission of a VF-171 toy, not even in the 1/250 scale fighter collection!!!! . And would it kill them to release a DX cannon-fodder tan VF-25!?

Quality-wise, I'd give them a 7.5/10, with only poor paint apps and easily damaged tampo markings being the only real negatives.

Regarding actual toy design (which is not related to quality), this is where they score lower and get only a 6.5/10 from me. Both the DX's and VF100s line have numerous design related issues, which I'm not going to repeat here as they have been discussed to death already. But it's obvious that Bandai still has a ways to go before they hit the right balance, but they do seem to be learning and improving, all be it slowly.

Graham

[Black Valkyrie]

The 1/72 kits are the only good merchandise from MF, the rest ... .

[honkhet]

The 1/72 kits are the only good merchandise from MF, the rest ... .

agree with what black valkyrie said and will say no more

just a single pic to round up how i feel

Edited November 16, 2009 by honkhet

[logos]

Yeah I got my VF-25 Alto DX and I have to admit compared to my HG 1/100 Gundams I was not impressed. I give them Cu-dose for the die-cast but I expected better from the company that gave me HG and PG Gundams (those kits are amazing sometimes). I want to love them but for what you get considering the price I just can't. My Yamato 1/60 VF-1's are 2 times the collectible (IMO) and I paid less for them. Note I use the VF-1 as my Yamato example as it seems more relevant than the other VF's in comparison to the VF-25s. Finally I know the Bandai is most likely more durable than my Yamatos but I prefer their attention to detail.

Needless to say I think my next big purchase is going to be the entire Bandai MF Skull squadron albeit in 1/72 model kits. I very much doubt I will buy the other DX VFs or super/armor kits. Considering the problems and the price point it just dosen't appeal to me.

PS: The 1/72 Bandai VF-s5 kits are snap together kits like Gundams right?

Edited November 16, 2009 by logos

[honkhet]

yup they are

and since attention to detail is your preference (mine too)

then it will be a 100% recommendation to go get 'em!

what more since u have gundam kit experience to boot

[logos]

Yeah I admit not having to glue and paint if you don't want to has allot of appeal. Hopefully I can free up some cash early next year to get them.

One other question though is do they seem as durable as a HG gundam? I know considering they are models they won't be as durable as Yamato even but there is no diecast at all correct?

Edited November 16, 2009 by logos

[Ghost Train]

Yeah I admit not having to glue and paint if you don't want to has allot of appeal. Hopefully I can free up some cash early next year to get them.

One other question though is do they seem as durable as a HG gundam? I know considering they are models they won't be as durable as Yamato even but there is no diecast at all correct?

I wouldn't catalog HG/MG Gundams as being particularly durable either. They are far more durable than a traditional model kit, but they will wear and tear faster (from my own vast experience) than a dedicated figure/toy. If you paint and decal them... well you know what I'm getting at.

[honkhet]

Yeah I admit not having to glue and paint if you don't want to has allot of appeal. Hopefully I can free up some cash early next year to get them.

One other question though is do they seem as durable as a HG gundam? I know considering they are models they won't be as durable as Yamato even but there is no diecast at all correct?

hi logos,

from my own tiny and insignificant experience,

i think it is safest that we stay away from asking about durability of the model kit in this toy forum

i may send u a PM about what my experience was...

or better yet just look at the pictures in my blog, and make ur own conclusion

[Kelsain]

The biggest problem I've seen is the utter lack of variety. I like the VF-25, I plan on getting a couple of the models... But how about a little variety?

Per Zinjo, you have the 1/60 VF-25's, the 1/72 VF-25s & the 1/100 VF-25's competing with each other. But until recently, nothing else.

Even now, it's the VF-27 coming out first, arguably very similar to the VF-25. At least its an adversary... What about the 1/72 red Vajra, or the 171, or the Q-rea? I understand milking the mold to make back your investment - tooling a few new pieces here & there. At least we got some Regults back in the day...

Edited November 16, 2009 by Kelsain

[eriku]

I personally feel like one year isn't anywhere close to enough time for a good comprehensive 'retrospective', but so far I'm satisfied with what Bandai has put out. The Alto DX and EX-Gear Alto are two of my favorite Macross toys ever and the upcoming Quarter, VF-19 and Koenig Monster have me more excited than anything Yamato has on the horizen, so grading on happy points I'd have to give Bandai's Frontier Year One an 'A'.

Edited November 16, 2009 by eriku

[logos]

I wouldn't catalog HG/MG Gundams as being particularly durable either. They are far more durable than a traditional model kit, but they will wear and tear faster (from my own vast experience) than a dedicated figure/toy. If you paint and decal them... well you know what I'm getting at.

I know they're not as durable as they are completely plastic models. That being said I find that pieces pop off on them more often than break and I like all the detail that you get out of them without paint. That and if I break it it's just a $35-$65 model not a $90-$200 toy.

- RANT

I spent $130 on the VF-25 Alto and the crappy paint, the droopy hands, ugly gun pod, stupid knife and those bloody hips aggravate me. Not to mention the complete lack of cockpit detail and the molded in pilot.

Take $20 to $40 bucks off the price and I wouldn't complain at all (well maybe not as much) but for that price you would think they would try to make something that looked as good or close to what you get in the model. Bandai can make good toys. Just look at what they did with the Gundam toy line. There is some really nice stuff there.

Maybe I have been spoiled by the Yamato VF-1 I don't know. As a toy it's fine but there is nothing to it that makes me want to get the others other than possibly an armored Ozama and that's only because of the neck, antenna fix.

- END RANT

I sure many of you love your VF-25s DXs and while I don't hate them there is nothing there that screams "gotta collect them all" to me. I have one and now I am like.....meh.....to the others. If they where closer to the same price as the VF-1s or had that "something" it might be a different story. I look at what Bandai has done in the past and since and I am just a bit disappointed in the DX line.

Also I am looking forward to picking up the Alto EX-Gear in the future. Wizatar's review kind of sold me on it and it's not a bad price.

Edited November 16, 2009 by logos

[Lolicon]

Overall, I think it's a great thing that we have so many choices when it comes to Macross products, especially with Yamato's excellent toy lines and the success of Frontier. It's a great time to be a Macross fan. However...

1/72 models: Despite my bellyaching about one aspect or another of the model kits, they're great little pieces of engineering and look fantastic if you're willing to put some effort into them. I don't know where this "static non-transforming" nonsense comes from. They transform just fine; it's just those of us who have put time and effort into painting and decaling them don't want to see it scratched up by the rigors of transformation. I'd use the "it's not a toy" line but doesn't the DX also lose paint if you look at it the wrong way?

1/60 DX: One word sums up my opinion of these things: fugly. Fighter mode is passable, but battroid is absolutely fugly. They really do look like mordbidly obese old men with pants pulled up to their armpits. The jacked-up hips are the thing I notice most. The Armored DX looks like it was made by Fisher Price. The VF-27 looks promising though.

1/100 Partsformers: Was never interested in or impressed by this line. Fighter mode looked good and might've hooked me if there was a pilot figure. Battroid retains the same fugly proportions and hip placement as the DX. WHY?! One could make a case for the DX needing to compromise for the transformation, but it's inexcusable for a partsformer. Add to it the bloated price tag.

DX Quarter: Is it December yet?!

[nugundamII]

muhahahahahaha

i LOVE MY DX vf 25s

and they love me !

[mustang1]

I have to admit that I gave the 1/72 an honest chance (twice). I have been building models for many years. but they were impossible!!! particularly the legs. I mean I look at some pics of others and I keep asking myself how the hell they got them tyo stay???

DX toys: Perhaps they are not as sharp looking as the Models but man at least they stay together, I don't play with toys I only display my collection, but it seems that the kits are just holding on for dear life to stay together!

1/100 never bothered.

[Lolicon]

I have to admit that I gave the 1/72 an honest chance (twice). I have been building models for many years. but they were impossible!!! particularly the legs. I mean I look at some pics of others and I keep asking myself how the hell they got them tyo stay???

What part of the legs are giving you problems? I know it's very hard to get them to stay up in fighter mode, due to a lack of a locking mechanism (addressed by the Armored). I think some people installed magnets in the legs to hold them up.

[thankheaven]

I only own one DX VF-25 and the toy itself is not that bad. Hate the landing gear and the chunky proportions and the waist. Gerwalk mode is also full of fail but in terms of quality its not that bad. I like the fightermode and battroid is alright once i got used to it.

Its the armor and super parts that i really hate. It feels like the toy weren't designed for them at all. They fall off at the slightest touch and doesn't feel integrated into the rest.

The DX VF-27 seems to fix alot of these problems though so maybe Bandai will go back and redo the 25 with the improvements from the 27.

[Ghost Train]

For me, one of the biggest minuses of the DX VF-25 was the ultra-glossy surface.

[Javabean]

It all depends on individual's preference. I myself hv no prblm with glossy look as real aircrafts are glossy too, as we hv discussed this before.

My issues with VF-25 is the short shopping cart landing gears & easily wear off marking

Edited November 17, 2009 by Javabean

[Uxi]

Not good enough for me to get one yet, though the Armored Ozma is most appealing to me.

[honkhet]

What part of the legs are giving you problems? I know it's very hard to get them to stay up in fighter mode, due to a lack of a locking mechanism (addressed by the Armored). I think some people installed magnets in the legs to hold them up.

if your talking about the "naked" valk, the trick is to make sure u fully collapse the knee joint, and the knee cap is used to keep the whole leg straight. at the same time the shoulder block's edges' friction on the wing hinge holds the whole valk sturdy.

right now i have 6 completed 1/72 vf-25 models: 2 naked, 2 with super parts and 2 with armor

for super parts version, i agree it was a total farce and i have since junked all the super parts i ever bought. there is still a way to still make the super parts work in every mode, but needs a more detailed discussion than this.

and armored parts... solved every problem there ever was

[Lolicon]

I can get them to stay up, they're just not as snug or secure as I would like. They do sag slightly; I prefer them to sit higher up. I figure a little blue tack should fix that...

[Chronocidal]

As much as I love a company as big as Bandai taking a swing at marketing Macross, I've got mixed thoughts.

My only personal experience with any Frontier merchandise to this point has been one 1/72 model, and it's barely been started, so I have very little feedback on it (except... bandai screwed up the Michael version color scheme, and you have to paint it, regardless of what they say.. they just flat out forgot most of the white parts on his VF-25G. Not a huge issue, but still irritating). It's a beautiful kit though, and I have no problem making a model to get a nice display piece... I barely transform my Yammies as it is.

I seriously hope they don't scrap that 1/48 VF-25 kit we saw a teaser for, I'll buy 10... maybe.

The DX's? Gah. I'm a stickler for details, and what Bandai did with these is inexcusable to me. It's not really the shape, or the accuracy of the design that gets to me (although they could use work)... it's the lazyness factor. There is no excuse for the corners they cut. Sloppy imprecise molding, cheapo paint, short-bus landing gear, lousy joint design (seriously? no knee pivot??).. eh, it's all been said before. But it kills my interest in them pretty completely.

I'm actually more interested in the VF100s line than the DX, but Bandai can't seem to decide what those are. I'd rather have more model kits than partsformers. The Hi-Metals may turn out better, but at that size/weight, there's really no reason for metal, and you could produce much cheaper and more detailed toys if you went with more plastic. More metal means more paint chipping from transforming.

[RDClip]

Bandai, where's my frackin' DX VF-171 / VF-171EX?????

Nuff, said!

Graham

I agree with you there, chief.

I just want some toy/model VF-171. Hell, release it in the crappy VF100 line, i'll buy it.

I've yet to own any MacF product so i can only comment in general terms. I think it's been a good year so far for MacrossF. I think Bandai is making a concerted effort to get Macross into the market in large quantities and hopefully we'll see more to come(VF-171) I've always stood by my belief that anything that get Macross into the mainstream is a good thing whether it be on TV, stores or in music.

[mustang1]

At the rear and near the fusalage. they don't seem to click in correctly???? is it me?

What part of the legs are giving you problems? I know it's very hard to get them to stay up in fighter mode, due to a lack of a locking mechanism (addressed by the Armored). I think some people installed magnets in the legs to hold them up.