Macross Laser Disc Preservation

[boinger]

Macross Laser Disc Preservation

Hi there,

Have you ever watched the Bandai HD remastered DYRL DVD and said to yourself what's with all that film grain being turned into macroblocks and what's with all these little background audio pops in the background?

After reading up on laser disc versus DVD video quality and the X0 project on originaltrilogy forum, I found that the mpeg compression on DVDs can cause the video macroblocking and improperly sampled ac3 audio can cause the background audio pops. While laser disc video/audio do not incur these problems.

I propose that that the Macross CAV Laser Discs be properly

converted to BDs/ AVCHD DVDs with a purchased Pioneer HLD-X0 laser disc player.

The current plan is for me to purchase an HLD-XO LD player from Nicolas Santini and any additional hardware or software for this project to make high quality raw avi (huffyuv codec) video (BNC to RCA video) and RF ac3 audio captures.

Then once the video and audio files have been captured, Chad Dunham has offered to do video fixes with virtual dub, Mercurial Morpheus has offered to do colour correction and I am going to see if I can do video glitch removal with after effects.

***********************************

This project could take at least 1-2 years for completion (of just one 2 hour movie, such as

perfect edition DYRL LD) because of how long it takes to afford to buy this LD player

and to do a good job getting these LDs cleaned up and into

subitled AVCHD DL DVDs or BluRay discs. It's likely to take less time for Macross Plus and 7.

I'm not sure how all the videos will distributed, but it would be easier just to mail

the discs out to those who worked on the project or donated and then by request only.

I'm hoping that the price of bluray recordable discs drops. Currently, I think I can only mail

out the discs if the the discs + shipping are paid first.

Rapidshare and private bittorrent servers would be the main options.

Project Team:

boinger

(project initiator)

Chad Dunham

(video processing guy)

Mercurial Morpheus

(possible colour corrector guy)

OptimusX

(AVCHD and subtitling specialist)

**********************************

October 11/2012

Laser Discs to be preserved:

Still looking for LD:

1. Macross Plus OAV 4 CAV

(international version)

No longer sought after because of the

hard encoded in Japanese subtitles onto the video.

2. Macross Plus OAV 1-4 CLV

English / Japanese audio

English subtitles are close captioned and

so are not hard encoded into the video.

Manga International

Purchased LDs:

1. DYRL:

a. perfect edition Macross: DYRL CAV

b. Super Space Fortress Macross Toho English Dub

c. DYRL CLV stereo audio

d. DYRL CLV widescreen, dolby surround sound

2. Macross: Flashback CAV

3. MII :

a. OVA 1-6 CAV

b. deluxe set CLV/CAV

4. SDF TV Memorial CAV/CLV

(not the 15th anniversary)

5. Macross Plus Movie CLV

6. Macross Plus OAV 1,2,3 CAV

7. Macross Plus OAV 1,2,3,4 CLV

8. Macross 7

a. series CLV

b. Galaxy is calling me CLV

c. Dynamite 1-4 CAV

d. Encore CAV

9. Macross SF Challenge CLV

Equipment needed:

1. Pioneer HLD-X0 in good working condition

a. bnc to rca video adapter x 8

(on hand)

b. 100 to 110 V stepdown transformer/converter

(included with HLD-X0 purchase from Nicolas Santini)

c. A RF demodulator is needed to connect up the RF ac3 audio output.

(on hand)

d.Monster Entech SVSI-1

(on hand)

Video Processor for external 3d comb filter to eliminate/reduce "dot crawl"

e. Video Essential Laser Disc for colour correction of laser disc player before capturing

(on hand)

f. Eye-One Display LT Monitor Colour calibrator

for color calibrating monitors

(on hand)

g. Video Essentials BluRay disc for colour correction of bluray player

(on hand)

h. PixelMagic Crystalio II VPS3300

(On hand.)

2. Computer video capture

a. Creative labs Xifi extreme audio card with digital i/o module adapter

(on hand)

b. Hauppauge WinTV HDPVR Video Recorder Version 1

* to deinterlace the 30fps

* to upscale the video 1080p

(on hand)

c. Cyberlink Power Director 8 Ultra

and the H264 hi def plug in

(on hand)

d. ATI 6950 HD pci-e video card

(on hand)

e. LG external Bluray burner

(on hand)

f. Nero 11 HD Multimedia full version

including NeroVision Xtra

DTS plug ins purchased extra.

(Done.)

g. Sony Vegas Movie Studio 11

(On hand.)

h. After Effects CS5

(Adobe Suite is now available on

a monthly $50 subscription.)

*********************

Comments and suggestions to keep this LD project going are welcome.

Edited October 9, 2012 by boinger

[thegunny]

I have a copy of DRYL Perfect Edition that's virginal (mainly due to the fact I don't have an LD player ).

Being in Australia makes it a bit difficult as I'm a bit reluctant to loan it OS but if someone here has the required equipment to do the copy I'm sure we can come to some arrangements.

Edit: Inserted pic to verify the LD is CAV

Edited November 13, 2009 by thegunny

[boinger]

I'll be updating the first post with new information as this project gets going.

Such as, I asked Neova to look for a HLD-X0. He said he'll take a look around Hong Kong this weekend. I expect that there are HLD-X0 players around, but we'll have to see how expensive it gets.

The one HLD-X0 player on Yahoo auctions this week is going for $2900 not including the $700 shipping or the $500+ customs. Apparently, this player is built like a battleship a with very thick and sturdy metal case weighing about 80 lbs.

I haven't finished reading all 87 pages of the Star Wars X0 laser disc preservation project on originaltrilogy forum just yet, so I'm still unsettled as to some specific hardware or software that can be used for this project.

I noticed that the X0 team said they used a pixel magic bnc video capture card to get the most clear video signal as they could. I doubt it would work on vista 64bit. As well, I'm not sure what to make of video processors. Some people on the AVS forum say that all you need is a high end laser disc player like an HLD-X0. Then there's the other bunch who say you just have to have a video processor (DVDO or Pixel Magic or that Entech box that is listed) to make sure that the video is outputted properly to a hi def tv with as little video artifacts as possible.

Anybody know much about video processors?

Otherwise, I think Chad can do just as much as a video processor can.

[TheLoneWolf]

Legal issues notwithstanding, this project seems very premature considering that none of us have seen what a Macross remaster on Blu-ray will look like.

While it's true that Laserdiscs don't use compression, its video is actually composite analog with a low NTSC resolution of 560×480. A Macross Blu-ray disc may not use any compression either, and its video will be true digital with a possible resolution of 1280x720 or higher. Furthermore, the best audio that you'll find on any of the Macross LD's is uncompressed Dolby Surround. Macross on BD could also feature uncompressed audio, but in a Dolby Digital or DTS mix. I think it'd be a shame to spend thousands of dollars in fan money on expensive Laserdisc equipment, only to find out that Bandai Visual is releasing superior Macross Blu-ray discs at a fraction of the cost.

From my understanding, the reason Star Wars fans are so hung up on the Star Wars Laserdiscs is that George Lucas treats original unedited Trilogy like a red-headed stepchild and gives the royal treatment to his Special Editions. To them, seeing the unedited Trilogy on Blu-ray may never happen. And even if it does, it could be an amateurish Laserdisc dump like the 2006 release. Fortunately, Macross fans don't have this problem.

If you truly want to preserve Laserdiscs, just keep them in a cool & dry place. Well manufactered Laserdiscs (such as Bandai Visual's) will outlive standard hard drives as well as the dye used in DVD-R's.

[chillyche]

Legal issues notwithstanding, this project seems very premature considering that none of us have seen what a Macross remaster on Blu-ray will look like.

While it's true that Laserdiscs don't use compression, its video is actually composite analog with a low NTSC resolution of 560×480. A Macross Blu-ray disc may not use any compression either, and its video will be true digital with a possible resolution of 1280x720 or higher. Furthermore, the best audio that you'll find on any of the Macross LD's is uncompressed Dolby Surround. Macross on BD could also feature uncompressed audio, but in a Dolby Digital or DTS mix. I think it'd be a shame to spend thousands of dollars in fan money on expensive Laserdisc equipment, only to find out that Bandai Visual is releasing superior Macross Blu-ray discs at a fraction of the cost.

From my understanding, the reason Star Wars fans are so hung up on the Star Wars Laserdiscs is that George Lucas treats original unedited Trilogy like a red-headed stepchild and gives the royal treatment to his Special Editions. To them, seeing the unedited Trilogy on Blu-ray may never happen. And even if it does, it could be an amateurish Laserdisc dump like the 2006 release. Fortunately, Macross fans don't have this problem.

If you truly want to preserve Laserdiscs, just keep them in a cool & dry place. Well manufactered Laserdiscs (such as Bandai Visual's) will outlive standard hard drives as well as the dye used in DVD-R's.

Blu-Ray video is always compressed. That said, the simple fact that the resolution is bound to be either 720p or 1080p, suggests that even WITH compression, we'll be looking at a far better image. It would be fantastic if the remastered directly from the original film prints, but often they have to remaster from the broadcast tapes, meaning its an upsampled imaged, but I agree with the entire point of: let's wait and see what gets released.

[boinger]

Those are good points you raised, thelonewolf and chillyche.

I understand that the resolution of a laser disc is not as much as the hd remastered. But, I did read that mpeg video can and does have video artifacts when compressing a 35mm movie to a DVD. So, I would hope that capturing the laser discs to h264 .mkv or raw avi would minimize the compression artifacts with Chad would work on some video processing and then OptimusX could give me some advice on converting them into avchd DVDs .

On the other hand, laser disc videos do have their own inherent potential video problems and limitations.

The HD DYRL DVD came out Dec. 2007 and there's still copies of the non-limited DYRL DVD available on cdjapan.

Standard Definition DVD Macross Zero: Dec. 2002

Buray Macross Zero: Aug. 2008

(corrections)

Standard Definition DVD Gunbuster OVAs released: 2004

Remastered DVD Gunbuster OVAs released: 2007

BluRay Gunbuster OVAs not released

So, the bluray DYRL movie is possibly to be released in 2010 to 2013.

I watched a

and he's a very busy guy working on 2-3 potential animation series as well as the Macross Frontier movies. 2012?

I'll hear back from Neova next week to see how expensive the HLD-X0 players can be.

Edited November 28, 2009 by boinger

[TheLoneWolf]

Blu-Ray video is always compressed.

You're right, Blu-ray video will always be compressed. I was thinking of the possibility of lossless video compression and should've said that from the start. With Triple and Quadruple Layer BD Discs on the horizen, Flashback 2012, Plus, and maybe even DYRL could be released using lossless video.

Sorry boinger, didn't mean drag your thread off-topic.

[chillyche]

You're right, Blu-ray video will always be compressed. I was thinking of the possibility of lossless video compression and should've said that from the start. With Triple and Quadruple Layer BD Discs on the horizen, Flashback 2012, Plus, and maybe even DYRL could be released using lossless video.

Sorry boinger, didn't mean drag your thread off-topic.

Still off topic... but I wouldn't expect uncompressed video to become the norm any time in the near future. These codecs are in development for years before we see them and before they become standard, and then longer before hardware manufacturers adopt them. While multilayer blu-ray will definitely allow for the storage space necessary for far better codecs and uncompressed 2k and eventually 4k stuff, the market won't be ready for another upgrade so soon, nor will consumers who are still lukewarm about the benefits of blu-ray (or HD-DVD) over DVD be ready to toss their BR players for MLBR players that can read uncompressed formats. Although, perhaps a firmware update would be all it took. I don't know.

I think at the end of the day, the LD rips would be as pretty as the original LDs, until compressed, of course. But that the original LDs decreased rez is sort of a sticking point. I think a decent BR encoding, even with mpeg artifacting, still looks better than an SD image, a lot of the time. But, then again, I haven't seen the BRs, so I don't know. Still, I gotta give boinger props for being massively enterprising, and I hope you keep releasing stuff.

[Valkyrie]

I have most of those LDs, and I'd be willing to loan them. The only ones on that list I don't have are Mac2 volumes 4 and 6.

[boinger]

Update:

I haven't bought any LDs or hardware yet.

I'm waiting to hear back from Neova.

Neova might be searching for HLD-X0 players this weekend. I haven't heard from him, since last week.

Yahoo Auctions has two HLD-X0 players up for about $2900 US, but the payments are direct bank transfers.

I don't like direct bank transfers.

Read two long original trilogy forum threads and now reading over the X0 project website for laser disc capture details.

X0 project Project Summary:

4 people in group

(1 for LD capturing, 1 video processing, 1 colour correction, 1 video clean-up)

ANH, ESB captured, ROTJ partial capture

video processing guy too sick to finish work on project

colour correction guy too busy with film school to finish work on project

video clean-up guy unable to finish project without other guys

Project on indefinite hiatus since autumn 2006.

Hardware used:

1. pioneer hld-x0 laser disk player

2. PCI video capture card:

a. pixel magic pdi deluxe pci capture card

(IVTC 30fps to 24fps applied.)

b. sweetspot pci capture card

(alternate not used by X0 project)

3. RF demodulator for RF/ac3 LD sound output

4. video processor placed between laser disc player and pdi capture card for external 3d comb filtering

(unknown?)

a. Monster Entech CVSI-1 RCA to SVHS converter

b. DVDO HD Edge video processor

c. Crystallio II or Lumagen video processors?

5. Video Essential Laser Disc for colour correction of laser disc player before capturing

6. 8 DVD-Rs used to capture 2 hour Star Wars ANH in raw huffyuv avi format

(I'm not sure if that video codec is what the Hauppauge HDPVR uses, too.)

Software used:

1. Video processing done after video capture:

Black Magic System developed by X0 project team member Laserman

a. Final Cut Pro + Shake + customized script

(discontinued Mac software with unknown script)

PAL and NTSC versions of Star Wars are combined to stabilize and bring out more detailed resolution from the LD captures.

b. Boujou software

(pixel tracking: stabilizes video before merging separate NTSC/PAL videos together.)

c. expensive video production computer hardware

(unknown)

2. Colour Correction process:

a. Adobe premiere

b. Colourimeter

c. Avid Media Composer

(not used but looks better than Adobe premiere for adjusting colour correction for different scenes.)

d. Discreet Lustre

e. AfterFX : Synthetic Aperture: Color Finesse plug-in

3. Video Clean-up process:

a. Autodesk Combustion for clean up of specks, etc

(I haven't played with any video compositing software to know if I can use this on Vista 64bit)

b. TooT script/software by Karyudo

(reduce noise and eliminate dropouts. Currently unavailable.)

c.Avisynth + VirtualDub

i. despot

ii. descratch

iii. colorlike

iv. removedust

****************************

Looking over the X0 project gives me some idea on how big a project this is.

**********************

* Capture all three ANH laserdiscs .

Import simple crop script into VirtualDubMod for IVTC and DotCrawl.

Save new avi.

* Combine all three using the TooT script.

abdespot(a, b, c) abdespot (a, b, c)

a = spotty clip a = spotty clip

b = noisy clip b = noisy clip

c = threshold c = threshold

LoadPlugin(...)

a=avisource("1.avi")

b=avisource("2.avi")

c=avisource("3.avi")

TwoOutOfThree(A,B,C)

Import into VDubMod for MSU sharpen filter.

Save new avi.

* Run through Laserschwert's De-Jaggy/De-Ghost script (also resizing to anamorphic)

and import to VDubMod for MSU sharpen and denoiser filters.

Save new avi.

* Color correct in Premiere.

Edited December 17, 2009 by boinger

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I understand that the resolution of a laser disc is not as much as the hd remastered. But, I did read that mpeg video can and does have video artifacts when compressing a 35mm movie to a DVD.

Actually, all digital codecs have compression artifacts. h.264 is just better at low bitrates than mpeg2. It's the very nature of lossy compression. It makes the file smaller by removing redundant information. It's the very reason why I hated lossy compression so much in my youth. If you want to see this in action, open a gif animation in something like the GIMP. If it's been optimized, you can see just how much image is cut.

Standard Definition DVD Gunbuster released: 2004

BluRay Remastered Gunbuster released: 2007

As far as I know, only the movies are on blu-ray, and the wait was less than a year, so your info is a bit off. If not, WHY WAS I NOT INFORMED!!!

I'm well familiar with the XO project and LD rips in general, being one of the Star Wars fans TheLoneWolf mentions. That's precisely the reason we do it. The GOUT is just so buggy. They're LD master themselves. OT.com is the best Star Wars site out there.

As for this project, capturing analog to digital is tricky business. Analog does have it's inherent problems, and I love it to death saying that. We've come a long way since the days of VHS fansubs hastily ripped to PC using Real Media and WMV or mpeg1. You might want to talk to some of the fansub groups that specialize in LD rips. For Macross, I don't think you need a godawful expensive X0. It's the best out there, but Star Wars needs it since it's live action. 80s animation has only so much detail to pull out of it. I'd say get a Pioneer, and do a test rip first. See if the video quality meets your liking.

Also be ready to clean up the video. Forget 1080p upscaling. There's no point to that except to inflate the filesize. At most, upscale it to 720x480. You're not adding any resolution do this. Don't capture in avi either. No point in doing this with the idea of escaping compression just to look your rips in lossy compression. That's detrimental to the very concept. Use a lossless codec like huffyuv. I know this project was born out of mpeg2 compression, but loading it back to DVD still requires converting to mpeg2. Remember to properly calibrate your monitor.

I will admit that i didn't see much of a point to this project earlier. Since I've been comparing restorations though, I have a piqued interest. There was an AMV released about ten years ago called One Day More. It used the 15th anniversary TV set. It looks pretty damn good, and I think the colors might be better than BV remaster. It seems like a happy medium between AnimEigo's soft touch, and Bandai's heavy hand.

AMV.org page (ignore the youtube compression). Since I see new worth as a way to better preserve the old color palette, have you considered the histogram approach? Several people have fixed the blue cast on Star Wars using histograms from the LDs. Edited November 27, 2009 by Mercurial Morpheus

[boinger]

LD fan sub video capture on Anime suki forum.

I'll read this over and see if there's anything else on that web forum that could be helpful.

Doom9 forum looks like there might be some info there as well.

(Doom9 forum seems to be down.)

I haven't tested the Hauppauge HDPVR just yet to see what options I can use for resolutions and codecs.

It appears that the hdpvr does use the h264 video codec. Huffyuv video codec would be prefrerable.

Alternatively, I can use my JVC Everio HD camcorder to capture video (AVCHD/m2ts video) from LD player.

The camcorder cables look like component video capture.

I could take back the HDPVR and then put that money towards buying the LD player. I'll go check on the JVC website for the manual to see what I can do with this camcorder.

(Update: HD camcorder video cables only useful for output, not input.

I'm keeping the HDPVR.)

After skimming through the anime suki thread, it looks like I'm after a too hard to justify expensive LD player: HLD-X0. A Pioneer HLD-X9 or an LD-S0 LD player would be the 2nd/3rd choices. Even then, those LD players are expensive, too. 4th, 5th LD player option?

******************************************

Mercurial Morpheus:

Colour palette with Histograms?

Maybe Chad Dunham would know more about this, I don't.

Unless you would like to take a crack at colour correction for LD rips?

I'm not sure what would be the "correct" colour scheme for each scene in DYRL.

At best, I would notice if there is too much of one colour, like blue.

The remastered DYRL DVD video resolution is 853x480 at 1x1 scale, but the picture does appear to include black bars on all 4 sides of the frame. The LD resolution would be less than the remastered DVD. If the LD resolution does not include the Left and Right black bars like the remastered DVD, then the LD resolution would be just right for a LD rip.

************

Correction:

My mistake. Mercurial Morpheus is correct. I misread that the 6 part OVA compressed into one movie as the 6 part OVA included on the bluray discs.

Gunbuster 1 and 2 ova were remastered to DVD in 2007, but not on bluray just yet.

Edited November 28, 2009 by boinger

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Colour palette with Histograms?

Maybe Chad Dunham would know more about this, I don't.

Unless you would like to take a crack at colour correction for LD rips?

I'm not sure what would be the "correct" colour scheme for each scene in DYRL.

At best, I would notice if there is too much of one colour, like blue.

I'm mostly talking about the TV series at the moment since comparing the Animeigo and Bandai sets suggest a lot of color discrepancy between the two. The new DVD set looks generally altered, and I was simply contemplating whether the LDs could fix it assuming their colors were more accurate... Auto-correction-from-SE-colours-to-GOUT-colour topic on OT.com I was intrigued by this as a possible way of correcting the colors in the Sleeping Beauty Bluray (though the different aspect ratio there will likely make that impossible)... As for not knowing the "correct scheme" don't worry, usually the restorers don't either.

I'm sure I could help on the color possibly, since I seem to be the only one bothered by BV's meddling .

Both Gunbuster series are on bluray.

I saw it on ebay, but not listed on cdjapan website. I do believe both series have been remastered for bluray.

You're talking to one of the main contributors to the Gunbuster thread here. Gunbuster's my favorite anime, so I'd like to think I'd know if the series were on bluray. The movie edit is on bluray, which is what you're linking to, but the six part OAV is only on DVD. I have both sets. You can get the movie set in the US for 60 bucks by the way, so that site's a rip off (but I'm guessing that's an import). According to the Gainax website, the DVD was released in January 2007, the BD in November 2008, so your point is still valid, your facts are just a little mixed up. The series was remastered on DVD in 2004. I don't think Diebuster is on BD as well, just the movie edit.

I still say try a test rip with a lesser LD player first. I'm sure the AMV artist didn't use a high end Pioneer, so you might surprise yourself. Hell, i just did an ebay search for "Pioneer LD" and Macross II is floating around for 7 bucks a disc.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Mercurial Morpheus

[boinger]

So far, Neova and Valk009 haven't been able to find any Pioneer HLD-X0 or X9

LD players out in Hong Kong. Maybe, we'll get lucky.

Three HLD-X9s are listed up on Yahoo Auctions: $2900 + shipping.

Two HLDx-X9s are listed up on Ebay Auctions: $2100-3000.

The guy who listed the HLD-X9 for $2100 on ebay has a bad rep

from Nicholas Santini who had to repair this guy's ebay buyer's HLD-X9s.

Nicholas Santini runs a specialty Pioneer LD website for high end LD players,

like the HLD-X0 and X9.

I emailed him yesterday to see how he prices the HLD-X0 players.

Here's his response email:

"Hello,

Will you be using the X0 for MUSE playback ?

RF demodulator: this is the easy part, can provide as detailed on my page:

http://home.q03.itscom.net/nsa/

I have several X0's in stock, can provide what you want, price highly variable

to cosmetical condition, year of manufacture and availability or not of original

packaging, ranges from $4000 to $8000, that includes the Pioneer revision

made by the world-wide specialist of these machines at Pioneer Tokyo.

Shipping to Canada is around $700, possibly less. All quotes in USD but payment

is by CAD bank wire to my father's Bank of Montreal account. Revision may

take up to one month, is triggered by your down payment; final payment due

when ready to ship.

Pls let me know what you are looking for and i will tell

you what i have that suits you.

I'll be gone 3 weeks from Dec 19 so no shipment can be finalized before

mid to end January.

Sincerely,

Nicolas"

*******************

So, he does have an HLD-X0 for sale, but it's $1000 more than the HLD-X9 ($3000),

not including the RF demodulator ($250).

I wonder how much for the down payment?

Wire bank transfer?

I dread wire bank transfers, since my younger brother was scammed by

a guy out in British Columbia for a non-existent Lap top.

Banks just don't care about fraud for some reason.

But, I'm not sure why my brother didn't make a small claims court claim against that guy in B.C.

N.S. will be unavailable until end of January because he's taking a vacation, so I'll work at getting some money together and see what I come up with by the end of January 2010.

For now, I posted up some toys and comics on ebay. Then I'll see how many more auctions I can do for today. The rest of the toys will be posted in the For Sale thread after the ebay auctions are done. I don't want to get too busy by selling too much at one time.

[Lott Sheen]

So far, Neova and Valk009 haven't been able to find any Pioneer HLD-X0 or X9

LD players out in Hong Kong. Maybe, we'll get lucky.

Three HLD-X9s are listed up on Yahoo Auctions: $2900 + shipping.

Two HLDx-X9s are listed up on Ebay Auctions: $2100-3000.

The guy who listed the HLD-X9 for $2100 on ebay has a bad rep

from Nicholas Santini who had to repair this guy's ebay buyer's HLD-X9s.

Nicholas Santini runs a specialty Pioneer LD website for high end LD players,

like the HLD-X0 and X9.

I emailed him yesterday to see how he prices the HLD-X0 players.

Here's his response email:

"Hello,

Will you be using the X0 for MUSE playback ?

RF demodulator: this is the easy part, can provide as detailed on my page:

http://home.q03.itscom.net/nsa/

I have several X0's in stock, can provide what you want, price highly variable

to cosmetical condition, year of manufacture and availability or not of original

packaging, ranges from $4000 to $8000, that includes the Pioneer revision

made by the world-wide specialist of these machines at Pioneer Tokyo.

Shipping to Canada is around $700, possibly less. All quotes in USD but payment

is by CAD bank wire to my father's Bank of Montreal account. Revision may

take up to one month, is triggered by your down payment; final payment due

when ready to ship.

Pls let me know what you are looking for and i will tell

you what i have that suits you.

I'll be gone 3 weeks from Dec 19 so no shipment can be finalized before

mid to end January.

Sincerely,

Nicolas"

*******************

So, he does have an HLD-X0 for sale, but it's $1000 more than the HLD-X9 ($3000),

not including the RF demodulator ($250).

I wonder how much for the down payment?

Wire bank transfer?

I dread wire bank transfers, since my younger brother was scammed by

a guy out in British Columbia for a non-existent Lap top.

Banks just don't care about fraud for some reason.

But, I'm not sure why my brother didn't make a small claims court claim against that guy in B.C.

N.S. will be unavailable until end of January because he's taking a vacation, so I'll work at getting some money together and see what I come up with by the end of January 2010.

For now, I posted up some toys and comics on ebay. Then I'll see how many more auctions I can do for today. The rest of the toys will be posted in the For Sale thread after the ebay auctions are done. I don't want to get too busy by selling too much at one time.

The Pioneer LD-S9 is a good budget alternative. It has very high quality internals matched with some of the top end units. I think I saw one on Y!jp for under $500 recently and was considering it myself for the SW Difinitive Editions and my copy of CAV DYRL Perfect Edition I picked up for $5 in Japan.

[boinger]

Here's a follow up email from N.S.:

"Hello,

The original packaging helps with shipping but has no impact on warranties.

The demodulator should be considered separately, won't ship along the X0 for packaging issues, does not require maintenance, so you could buy it upfront or at the same time you buy an X0, with no down payment.

For the X0 you can pay in installments like $500 or $1000 monthly if it helps, a target of an April to June shipment is reasonable.

There are several issues with PayPal, their rules prohibit partial payments, their fees are high, and they won't protect from fraud

in the case both parties are not in the US, which is our case.

Sincerely,

Nicolas"

****************************

So, basically, all I need to do is come up with $500 a month for 8 months and

not buy any Macross toys for that period of time.

OR

I would need to sell pretty much all the toys I have ready

for sale for the price I'm hoping for.

That would just cover the LD player, but not the Macross LDs or extra hardware.

Hmmm. I better sleep on this one.

I would have a better idea on how many toys I can sell by the end of January.

[boinger]

Okay.

I couldn't sleep tonight. Part of the hazard of working nights.

Is it me or has a lot ebay prices just been cut in half?

The HLD-X9 LD player from Portugual just dropped his price to $1000

and the other guy droped his price to $2000.

And I'm seeing a lot of other toys and dvds drop in price on ebay.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Interesting info from Wikipedia concerning players.

Certain Japanese players, which are considered to be of higher quality or of greater capacity for quality playback than the North American units, are occasionally imported by enthusiasts. These include the CLD-R7G, LD-S9, HLD-X9 and HLD-X0. All four are manufactured by Pioneer and three contain technology that was never officially available in North American Laserdisc players.

The CLD-R7G, LD-S9 and HLD-X9 share a highly advanced comb filter, allowing them to offer a considerable advantage in picture quality over most other LD players when the S-Video connection is used. The comb filter present in these players is unique and is purportedly the finest comb filter ever used in consumer A/V gear: it is still currently in use in Mitsubishi's top-spec CRT rear-projection television sets (the Diamond and now defunct Platinum series sets) and Pioneer's Elite line of rear-projection televisions.

In addition to the advanced comb filter, the HLD-X9 contains a red-laser pickup, which significantly reduces crosstalk and picture-noise levels compared to players with the traditional infrared laser; it can also read through all but the worst cases of laser rot and surface wear. The HLD-X9 is, lastly, also a MUSE player, capable when properly equipped of playing back high definition Laserdiscs, called Hi-Vision or MUSE discs in Japan.

The HLD-X0 is Pioneer's original MUSE player, and is the player of choice for many enthusiasts despite the fact that it lacks the comb filter shared by the R7G, S9 and X9. It was entirely hand built from hand picked electronics and weighed a massive 36 kilograms. Many argue that the newer X9 was a more capable MUSE player but that the X0 had superior performance with standard NTSC discs. Nonetheless, the X9 remains the more popular of the two models, as it includes the newer comb filter and is a dual-side player, meaning that double sided discs don't need to be manually flipped over in order for both sides to be played.

[boinger]

So, I emailed Nicolas Santini back that I would start the monthly payment plan for the HLD-X0 starting at the end of January. He's gone off for vacation until then. Meanwhile, Valk009 is still looking for the HLD-X0 and Neova is looking, too. We can always hope.

Otherwise, I did have a fairly good ebay auction which allow me to stock up on Macross LDs.

Then there's some x-mas cash, so I can pick up a couple of the necessary electronics:

a. Japanese Use 300 watt 100/117 Step Up/Down Transformer

$50

b. video essentials laserdisc

$50

c. X-Rite Eye-One Display LT (i1Display) EODLT

$150

d. YAHMAHA Natural Sound RF Demodulator APD-1 L laser disc

$200

c. optional:

i. Kramer F-10D

$250

or

ii. BNC Composite S-Video to Component Video RGB Converter

$130

(This looks like it would do the job of maintaining video colour and brightness quality when transferring from the LD to the computer.)

or

iii. SVSI-1 Monster Entech composite to svhs box

$50-200

And then I remember that the X0 project team used high quality CRT TVs for colour correction, etc.

I suppose they used the older style tv s because the laser discs were

displayed for those television sets. I'm not sure if an older tv is essential for the Macross LD

preservation project considering that everybody who will be watching the LD preservations

will be watching on digital tv s or computer monitors.

**************

An HLD-X0 is made to get the best video quality from an NTSC CAV laserdisc.

That's as good as it gets for laserdisc.

[boinger]

Totoro242 has been gracious enough to sell me his Macross LD collection

for what I've made from my recent ebay auction sales.

LDs request list:

Macross Plus OVA 1,2,3,4 CAV (international version?) LD

and

Macross SF Challenge LD.

(According to the limited reviews of the Macross SF Challenge LD,

I think recreating this LD into a DVD would be a lot easier and

maybe more fun to play than the original LD.)

******************************

Neova and Valk009 are still looking in Hong Kong for an HLD-X0 LD player for me.

If either of the guys can't find an HLD-X0 for less than $4000, then it looks like I will go for the

$500/month payment plan for the HLD-X0 with Nicolas Santini starting at the end of January 2010.

Every month, I'll be listing more toys and stuff on ebay or posting in the For Sale thread

to raise funds for the monthly payment. By October, I'll have the X0 LD player

ready to go for this project.

***********************

Kayrudo from originaltrilogy forum has made his ToToot software available again.

This avisynth plug-in sofware combines 3 video captures of the same movie to

cancel out video artifacts.

So, I was thinking that the 3 video captures could be:

1. DYRL LD

2. remastered DYRL

3. Chad's remastered DYRL

[boinger]

There is an HLD-X0 on yahoo japan auctions and it's up to $791 Canadian with 2 days left.

That's an amazing price for this LD player.

I think that guy is selling locally and not shipping internationally.

It's hard to tell.

(I changed my mind about going after this one.

If it's that inexpensive, there's always a possibility that it would need repairs.

So, I would still be better off buying from Nicolas Santini.)

Totoro242 shipped out the Macross LD bundle yesterday.

I hope all the LDs make it here safely.

I saw Macross Plus OVA 1,2,3 CAV LDs on ebay, but no OVA 4 CAV LD.

I guess I'll wait for those last 4 to show up.

Thursday, I picked up an LG external Bluray burner for my birthday present.

Now, I can rent some bluray discs and find out what's so

special about bluray. This burner might come in handy to make bluray

Macross discs. I'm not sure about that yet.

Edited January 2, 2010 by boinger

[Mercurial Morpheus]

And then I remember that the X0 project team used high quality CRT TVs for colour correction, etc.

I suppose they used the older style tv s because the laser discs were

displayed for those television sets. I'm not sure if an older tv is essential for the Macross LD

preservation project considering that everybody who will be watching the LD preservations

will be watching on digital tv s or computer monitors.

I think it's because CRTs are still the best overall technology for this sort of thing. CRTs only real drawback is it's size limitation (they can't really go any bigger than 40'', it's just impractical). They've long had the best blacks of any TV. The only thing close is a high end plasma. Their color is much more accurate than LCD usually (no matter how popular it is, LCD is a positively dredful looking technology). They also are better at displaying different resolutions since they aren't fixed res like a flat panel is. Hence you'd be seeing the LD at it's res, rather then artificially upscaled. There are such things as digital CRTs. My living room TV is one. There's even HD ones if you can find them. Plus you have an SD source on an SD television. A PC monitor is the last thing you'd want to be doing it on as well. They're quite different from TVs in terms of contrast and so on.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Mercurial Morpheus

[boinger]

I looked around Winnipeg retail websites for CRT TVs.

Walmart and Canadian Tire have the cheap crt tvs: rca and electrohome.

So, I took a look at BuyandSell.com and Kiijii for Winnipeg.

This Toshiba 27" CRT , component input, 480i, 16:9 display looks like it

will do the job nicely.

I even found an hdmi to component video adapter converter on ebay to

connect the ATI 5770 video card directly to the CRT tv.

(The Toshiba might not be an HD TV, so there could be a compatibility problem with this type of component cable connecting to the video card.)

Kramer FC-10D transcoder is now mine!

I need to pace myself a bit more, since I'll have to budget monthly to pay for the HLD-X0 payments.

I haven't bought these items just yet, but they're on my list.

**********************

How to connect everything up:

LD player would connect

from video BNC (via RCA cable and BNC to RCA adapters x 2)

to Kramer trascoder

and then

to HDPVR (SVHS cable),

and then

audio RF ac3 (RCA cable)

to RF demodulator

to HDPVR (SDPIF cable).

The ATI 5770 video card would connect

to the CRT TV via HDMI to Component adapter.

That's the plan so far.

Edited January 4, 2010 by boinger

[boinger]

I just noticed something about the Macross Plus LDs audio on the Macross Compendium.

The M+ OAV CLV LDs have japanese dolby digital stereo audio.

(All 4 are on ebay.)

The M+ OAV CAV international LDs have japanese analog stereo and english dolby digital stereo audio.

(I found 1,2,3, but not 4.)

The M+ OAV Manga DVDs have english dolby digital 5.1 surround sound and japanese dolby digital stereo audio.

The remastered M+ OVA DVDs have japanese Linear PCM Stereo and Dolby Digital Monaural

So, the most accurate audio rip for the OVAs would be?

If I buy the M+ OVA CAV LDs, then the video quality is more likely to be better than the CLV LDs.

But then I would be potentially missing out on the japanese digital stereo audio on the CLV LDs.

I do have the remastered DVDs.

What do you think?

***************************

UPDATE:

1. Video Essential LD is here!

It's in pristine shape.

2. All the Macross LDs got here safe and sound.

Thanks Totoro242!

3. The FC-10D transcoder needs a couple of BNC adapters from The Source before I can test to see

if it's working properly.

4. Colour Correction:

I think I have to colour correct the CRT TV first before I adjust the settings of the LD player.

The Video Essentials DVD will be here by mail soon. Once I pick up a CRT TV, then I could colour correct

the CRT TV with the Video Essentials DVD.

Also, I was thinking of picking up an HDMI to composite adapter from ebay

to get my computer hooked up to a CRT TV.

So, I asked 3x from 3 different ebay sellers about buying a video card

to composite CRT tv adapter and received no replies.

From the HDFURY2 websites, it says that these adapters (i.e. HDFury2) are

only good for high definition tvs that have the same resolution as the the video cards.

Even if the HDFury2 does connect an ATI 5770 to the Toshiba CRT TV, the CRT

would not be able to receive the signal from the video card.

The problem is that the CRT TV's highest resolution is only 480i/p and the 5770 video

card's lowest resolution is 800x600.

So much for that idea.

Alternatively, the HCFR colour correction software can take color correction readings off a crt tv via a laptop with an Eye-1.

But, I haven't figured that software out yet.

The Eye-1 colourimeter has been tested out with my lcd monitor.

It does subtly change the display settings.

Looks good to me!

So, I'll colour correct the hardware and then Mercurial Morpheus can do the final correction with software.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Personally, I've found that analogu audio trumps digital, especially compressed audio like Dolby Digital. Digital wise, the PCM should be the best choice, since it's uncompressed. That's assuming no remixing has been done.

Also, I'm not sure color correcting with the DVD is the best option. To my knowledge, each video essentials was tuned for that particular format. Hence the DVD would set the TV for optimal DVD viewing, not LD viewing. Though I suppose it's better than a poorly set up TV. Even if you can't work on the TV directly, you should be able to test it out on it.

By all accounts, they shouldn't need much correction to begin with.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Mercurial Morpheus

[Chad Dunham]

Also, I'm not sure color correcting with the DVD is the best option. To my knowledge, each video essentials was tuned for that particular format. Hence the DVD would set the TV for optimal DVD viewing, not LD viewing. Though I suppose it's better than a poorly set up TV. Even if you can't work on the TV directly, you should be able to test it out on it.

Not quite -- the different Video Essentials editions are coded to represent either NTSC, PAL or HDTV standards, so as long as one calibrates to the same standard across the different platforms, the format of the Video Essentials media shouldn't matter.

[boinger]

That's what I needed to know.

Thanks!

I was looking at the CAV M+ ova LDs for video quality and now that's for sure.

It's going to be a while before the HLD-X0 gets here.

So, I'll practice colour-correcting enough with the video essentials DVD for my monitor until I get the hang of it.

Then the LD colour corrections will be that much easier to work though.

********************

There's a guy on half.com that looks like he has all 4 CAV M+ LDs, but he doesn't respond to my emails and

anything on half.com is unavailable to buyers outside of the USA.

http://shops.half.ebay.com/unkway_macross_W0QQmZmovies

He put the LDs on sale, but I can't confirm that these LDs are CAV or CLV for sure because of the lack of

communication and item pictures.

There isn't a big rush to buy more stuff just now.

I was just looking at this guy's LDs because he put them on sale.

I could also ask Nicolas Santini or Neova to look for the M+ CAV LDs.

*************

I saved a copy of a couple of X0 project videos and the 2nd issue of their newsletter if anyone would be interested in looking.

After organizing my Macross files on my computer, I came across

some one's DYRL subtitles for their CAV LDs.

I'm not sure which subtitle format this is.

***************

HLD-X0 Purchase Plan:

I'll have to confirm with Nicolas Santini which HLD-X0 he has that would be within my price range.

He suggested one that goes for $4000. He says that an almost new in a box HLD-X0 goes for $6000+!

$500-800/month payments would be paid off by September or July 2010.

Only one VB-6 monster was sold in the Macross Sale thread I posted.

I'll start listing toys up on ebay starting this weekend towards the 1st installment on the

HLD-X0. Then I'll send the first payment cheque to Nicolas Santini in February.

If my ebay sales don't pan out, then I'll just not buy Macross toys for a few months and pay $500/month.

Also, I was thinking about asking for monthly $10-20 monthly donations for purchase of the

HDL-X0 LD player on the condition that I pay the donations back at the same rate as received.

I could only accept $400/month maximum in donations, otherwise I

would have difficulty paying back in timely manner.

I'll list the donators and working total in the first post, if there is any donators.

Paypal gift payment to kaarma@hotmail.com

Thank you!

[Mercurial Morpheus]

Not quite -- the different Video Essentials editions are coded to represent either NTSC, PAL or HDTV standards, so as long as one calibrates to the same standard across the different platforms, the format of the Video Essentials media shouldn't matter.

Thanks for the clearup. Though I remember someone making that argument on a home theatre board long ago. That, and my VCR and DVD inputs require different settings, DVD being somewhat darker. Much like how I have to boost contrast by 2 when playing my PS2 for example.

[boinger]

UPDATE:

I had some hardware setbacks .

The audio demodulator didn't work at all.

The Kramer video transcoder's BNC video input to SVHS output had a B&W, grainy, warped picture.

That's the video connection that I really needed to work for the laserdisc preservation.

So, I'm working on getting replacements or refunds for both defective equipment.

It might take longer to get a refund or replacement for the demodulator with Nicolas Santini, since I paid with a money order to his Uncle in Montreal.

I asked the ebay seller for the transcoder to test out the replacement transcoder's BNC input to SVHS output before we swap transcoders by mail.

The bad B&W picture on the transcoder could be a Macrovision problem.

So, then I would need to buy the other video transcoder that I was looking at on ebay.

***********************

I tested the Kramer transcoder and Yamaha demodulator with

a Magnasonic Magnavox VCR/DVD recorder, Samsung DLP-TV and a Sony Receiver.

I also tried the video transcoder with a JVC VHS player with same bad results.

***********************

I need to resolve the Yamaha demodulator refund/replacement, since Nicolas Santini is the guy I'm buying the HLD-X0 player from!

*******************

UPDATE again:

Nicolas reminded me that the Dolby digital audio on the laserdisc players are quite different than the rca coaxial digital audio from my vcr/dvd recorder. That's why the light on the demodulator didn't light up and no sound was going through the demodulator when hooked up to my Sony receiver. I'm not able to test the demodulator until I actually have a laserdisc player that has dolby digital sound output.

So, basically it's time to start sending monthly cheques to Nicolas to get that laserdisc player.

Edited February 2, 2010 by boinger

[boinger]

I mailed out the first payment cheque ($500 CAN) for the HLD-X0 LD player to Nicolas' uncle in Quebec.

A monthly payment plan works best for me.

I listed up a bunch of toys on ebay today and some more for tomorrow, so I can make some more funds for the HLD-X0.

Otherwise, we're looking at 8-9 months for completion of payment and then 3 weeks later for shipping: October 2010!

It's a good thing that I'm so-so on Yamato's Macross 7 toys for this year. I do like the VF-17 though.

***************************

Last week, I shipped back the FC-10D transcoder for a replacement.

It did reach Escondido, California 6:30 am yesterday.

I'll send the guy an email and see if he's picked it up yet.

*********************

UPDATE:

I was able to get a refund, since he did receive the transcoder back.

Very good ebay seller!

So, I'm going to pick up that alternate BNC input to composite output on ebay once my ebay auctions finish up next week Wednesday. It looks like I'll be able to list up a whole lot more on ebay starting in March because ebay is finally dropping their fees. Any extra cash does help.

I haven't picked up the Toshiba CRT TV yet, but it's still listed for sale on kiijii winnipeg.

Also, I asked Nicolas about finding the M+ OAV CAV international LDs for me.

I haven't heard back from him yet, since the last email I sent him 2 weeks ago.

I guess he's busy or I might be annoying him?

Edited February 11, 2010 by boinger

[boinger]

First payment for HLD-X0 received by Nicolas Santini.

He's a busy guy, so it takes him a couple of weeks to respond to emails.

Ebay sales were pretty lackluster for getting cash together.

End of March, ebay fees will be less, so I can post up more stuff.

And hopefully, people will be more in the buying mood on ebay once they get their income tax refund.

I was also going to try out Kijiji for toy sales, too.

I'll see what I can save up for the HLD-X0 next month.

I did find M+ OAV CAV 1,2,3 Laserdiscs on recobanchou retail website.

So, those LDs are on the way.

Apparently, M+ OAV CAV disc 4 is really hard to find.

Nicolas Santini had the complete M+ OAV CAV international LD set for only $300 US+shipping.

I said "no thanks". Maybe, I'll get lucky on ebay.

Otherwise, I did send an email to Neova about the recent M+ LD purchases, so he might be able to find vol 4 LD for me.

Also, the Macross SF Challenge LD is on ebay for $110 US.

But, I would rather buy Macross books or the CRT TV for colour correction or the composite to component transcoder.

[boinger]

2nd payment ($700 CAN) was sent to Nicolas' uncle for the HLD-X0 LD player was

sent this week.

7-8 payments or less to go depending on how much I can keep myself from buying

toys and how much I can sell toys on ebay.

The final price for the player could be $3000-4000 depending on what shape Nicolas can find

a working HLD-X0 for me. He has a bunch of the HLD-X0s on hand.

Until I get all my payments in, he's going to keep looking for less expensive HLD-X0 for me.

The cheapest HLD-X0 would be the one that doesn't look as nice, but

it will be sent to a Pioneer LD repair depot before it's shippped to me.

So, it will be in as good a working condition as the nicer looking ones.

[boinger]

Macross Plus CAV international version LDs 1,2,3 are here from Reco Bancou.

They are in really great shape!

Now it's just M+ OAV 4 international version CAV LD to find.

I did notice that M+ OAV 1 CLV LD has the Macross: Future Chronicle video on it.

Gubaba was telling me when he picks up the Bandai M+ DVD set that has this video

then he'll pass it along to me. Subtitling might be an option considering Gubaba's

schedule and interest.

Then I would hand over M: Future Chronicle to

Chad Dunham for him to make some video adjustments.

"Future Chronicle" might be considered for a restoration project using remastered macross video.

I'll have to look it over to decide.

HLD-X0 News:

The $700 cheque hasn't been cashed yet by Nicolas' uncle.

Last time, the mail took over 2 weeks to get to Quebec and cashed.

We'll see what I can afford for April.

Edited March 12, 2010 by boinger

[boinger]

I've been asked a question about the Macross LD Preservation Donator idea

and a possible production schedule (best guesstimates).

Length of donations:

8 months to send out all payments for HLD-X0.

6 weeks to receive HLD-X0 from Nicolas.

HDL-X0 in my place by December.

If you donate $10/month = $80, then I would pay you back $10/month starting November.

If you're the only donator, then I'll probably just refund you a lot sooner.

I'll type your name out on the LD preservation thread, so I can keep track.

So far, I sent $1200 CAN for a possible $4072 CAN HLD-X0 LD player.

It might be more or lesss, Nicolas has not confirmed the exact price

since I will be getting his cheapest HLD-X0. The cheapest might be

pretty beaten up. I might go for the one above the cheapest.

$700 April

May, I have auto insurance to pay, which will be over $1000.

$100 June.

$700 July

$700 August

$700 September

$400 October for shipping and power transformer

Availability and Distribution:

There's rapidshare or bittorrents or usenet or irc.

Usenet and irc are unknown to me at this time.

A bonus for Donators?

I'm not sure how I can afford to mail out all the Macross LD bluray discs to donators,

since it would be quite a lot of expensive bluray discs to buy + shipping.

And I would be paying back the donators what they paid me.

The only way I can afford to do that is if the donator pays for the bluray disc and shipping.

Then the rest would be distributed by bittorrent or rapidshare or ?

Production Schedule:

It will likely take me 1-2 months to figure out how to get the best LD capture and

hand those videos over to Chad Dunham through the mail / rapidshare

for some basic video fixing.

Then he hands them back to me after 2-3 weeks through rapidshare.

Then I have to figure out how to remove basic video glitches out of the video

with After Effects. I have no idea how long that will take. Mercurial Morpheus

has offered to do final colour correction (maybe 3-4 weeks for that.)

OptimusX is looking into how subtitled AVCHD DL DVD-Rs are made.

And I still have to see how to get one bluray disc made with Nero or Power Director software

with menus and features just like a DVD.

Worst case scenario:

One 2 hour movie like DYRL could take 10+ months to get to subtitled bluray.

This is because I wanted to see how much video quality on the perfect edition DYRL LD

can be restored.

Best case scenario:

M7 Dynamite OVA 1-4

straight rip, Chad's video fix, MM's colour correction,

OptimusX bluray/AVCHD

4-6 months

Macross SDF/DYRL would need more work than Macross plus or 7.

I'm also thinking about travel time for sharing files and possible computer problems.

Subtitles are a possibility, but the main project is first to get the best video/audio

from the Macross LDs. So, the initial rips will be unsubtitled

huge AVI files that would have audio separately ripped.

It's a lot more work once I've thought about it.

Maybe, it'll get easier after the first few times.

[boinger]

Nicolas received payment.

Here's an update from him on the HLD-X0 payment plan.

"Your order is as follows:

+ HLD-X0 $4000

+ voltage transformer included

+ Pioneer maintenance included

+ packaging + shipping $750 estimated

= total $4750 estimated

- already paid $480 + $685 = $1165 US

= still due USD 3585 estimated

When we are close to the shipping date i will check all current pricing for DHL, UPS and FedEx, their rates change with fuel

surcharges. Assuming that your final payment will cover postage, maintenance will be triggered by your previous payment, should take

less than a month, so the shipment can be triggered by the final payment."

$3585 US more to go!