The MW rewatches M7 together Thread

[Master Dex]

Just finished watching episode 6. This was actually a really well done episode I believe. It is also the first episode we get to see a decent amount of Gamlin. He has only appeared in small bits before now. Also this is the beginning of his acquaintance with Mylene.

I have to reiterate it, it is clear Basara was in a rut the whole episode and is still having some trouble dealing with the fact he has to resort to using weapons. However he seems a bit more content with things by the end. The fact of the matter is is that he was under a lot of pressure this battle, he tried to sing his heart out to stop Gigil from blasting away at Gamlin but it wasn't working and he had no option but to fire when the missiles were starting to affect the escape pod (more on that in a bit). It is clear he directed his anger to the attackers. In his mind, their refusal to understand and listen to his song in order to cease the attack was the reason he had to fire. So I think that is why Basara looks like he is feeling better at the end. He now no longer thinks he is failing to reach them, he is seeing that it is the enemy that is being stubborn here. I think when it comes down to it, this episode was Basara questioning if he really was doing all he could with his singing since he wasn't achieving success, hence his rut. However by the end of the episode he has decided he is giving it all he can, and it is that the enemy is just really hard to get through. So now he is just continuing to make sure he is giving it his all to try and reach them and hope that the enemy will one day understand.

So from character analysis to science! That's right, it is your weekly science review by none other than your very own Master Dex!!! Too flashy? I thought it was humorous.

Actually I don't have a lot to mention this time around really. Though I loved the fact that the pamphlets were on digital pads, which is a very likely thing to happen in the near future thanks to OLEDs (that's Organic Light Emitting Diodes) which are small lights that can be applied to any surface, including flexible ones like paper. It will one day be used to perfect the idea of a video or moving image playing on something as thin as a paper or magazine cover (remember the magazines in Frontier, yeah, like that). The pamphlet here though, is an in between step though, more like using something like the Amazon.com kindle or the Barnes&Noble e-reader which have become popular lately for being able to download books and read them on the device. This thing here seems a bit more disposable though, suggesting it is simple to make at that time and are programmed only with information for that concert and can't be used for anything else. Probably get recycled for further use. Until OLED technology becomes super cheap (it is already pretty cheap though) this is more likely to happen before we have those video magazine covers we can just toss when we are done reading/watching them.

I mentioned the missile that exploded near the escape pod though and rocked it. I though I'd note that there isn't much the missile would do to the pod without actually hitting it. With a lack of atmosphere there is no shock wave to explosions so the missile would have to be really close for the actual release of energy from the explosion to do much to the escape pod. I'm not sure if the energy release from an exploding missile without atmospheric effects can do that much... I'd have to know just what kind of punch the missile carried. So there is really nothing wrong with the scene, but I can guess it was a bit fudged for dramatic effect. So nothing new there, lol. We know the show creators realize the lack of sound in space due to no medium, but that is becoming more well recognized. What many forget is that explosives do less in a vacuum unless they really close or directly touching their target due to lack of shock wave. This was nothing, but wait until they bring out the reactions weapons later in the series and you can listen to me go on about how nuclear explosions in space work (yes I know they aren't quite nukes, but it is the closest real world analogy), which is actually quite cool.

Good episode, on to the next one, BOMBAA!!

[VFTF1]

When we discussed episode 5, I focused on how much music from earlier Macross' is used on M7 to balance Fire Bomber. While in episode 5 there was a lot of Macross Plus stuff, in this instalment we got at least 3 Macross II tracks. It may not be canon but they sure use a lot of music from it. The 2 very 80s sounding ones (Mylene shower scene: It's because it's That Future/Pop Band playing after Fire Bomber: Banana Moon of Love) are sung by Yuko Sato. And the sax number is actually the intro from my favourite Macross II number "For Now a Friend" sung by Tomoyo Sato.

Towards the end of the chapter Basara plays the acoustic guitar only version of "My Soul for You". If anyone has that number please let me know I've been trying to get it for years!

Thanks for that info. I never saw Macross II, so I didn't know where that music was form. It's pretty good music.

As for the acoustic of My Soul For You - I heard it on Yotube.... I think....

So from character analysis to science! That's right, it is your weekly science review by none other than your very own Master Dex!!! Too flashy? I thought it was humorous.

Actually I don't have a lot to mention this time around really. Though I loved the fact that the pamphlets were on digital pads, which is a very likely thing to happen in the near future thanks to OLEDs (that's Organic Light Emitting Diodes) which are small lights that can be applied to any surface, including flexible ones like paper. It will one day be used to perfect the idea of a video or moving image playing on something as thin as a paper or magazine cover (remember the magazines in Frontier, yeah, like that). The pamphlet here though, is an in between step though, more like using something like the Amazon.com kindle or the Barnes&Noble e-reader which have become popular lately for being able to download books and read them on the device. This thing here seems a bit more disposable though, suggesting it is simple to make at that time and are programmed only with information for that concert and can't be used for anything else. Probably get recycled for further use. Until OLED technology becomes super cheap (it is already pretty cheap though) this is more likely to happen before we have those video magazine covers we can just toss when we are done reading/watching them.

I mentioned the missile that exploded near the escape pod though and rocked it. I though I'd note that there isn't much the missile would do to the pod without actually hitting it. With a lack of atmosphere there is no shock wave to explosions so the missile would have to be really close for the actual release of energy from the explosion to do much to the escape pod. I'm not sure if the energy release from an exploding missile without atmospheric effects can do that much... I'd have to know just what kind of punch the missile carried. So there is really nothing wrong with the scene, but I can guess it was a bit fudged for dramatic effect. So nothing new there, lol. We know the show creators realize the lack of sound in space due to no medium, but that is becoming more well recognized. What many forget is that explosives do less in a vacuum unless they really close or directly touching their target due to lack of shock wave. This was nothing, but wait until they bring out the reactions weapons later in the series and you can listen to me go on about how nuclear explosions in space work (yes I know they aren't quite nukes, but it is the closest real world analogy), which is actually quite cool.

Thank you for continuing to post scientific analysis Dex. This is very very interesting and welcome.

I have a question about one thing in your analysis:

Would the huge Mass of the Macross 7 and its' anjoining different "cities" (the industrial ship, the entertainment ship, the farming ship etc) create enough of a gravity pull that an escape pod - even though it would be out in the void of space - would still (absent the force of its' own thrust) be within the sphere of the ship's gravity?

And therefore - wouldn't missile shards in space - in such closs proximity to something of such huge mass -also be under the sphere of its' gravity and concievably - being pulled towards the giant ship by its' gravity, threatend the escape pod which, under the force of thrust, is pulled in the opposite direction?

That is to say - the escape pods thrust has a large enough force to escape the gravity of the giant ship.

But the missiles shards and shrapnel would head towards the oncoming Escape pod with a speed of a) the force of the explosion which propels the missiles + b) the pull of the gravity of the ship.

And this would put them on a collision course?

And of course this depends on the mass of the ship and whether its' gravity field was sufficiently strong?

Or is this all wrong - since I am not a physcisist and am going off of imaginative science fiction

Pete

[Master Dex]

Thank you for continuing to post scientific analysis Dex. This is very very interesting and welcome.

I have a question about one thing in your analysis:

Would the huge Mass of the Macross 7 and its' anjoining different "cities" (the industrial ship, the entertainment ship, the farming ship etc) create enough of a gravity pull that an escape pod - even though it would be out in the void of space - would still (absent the force of its' own thrust) be within the sphere of the ship's gravity?

And therefore - wouldn't missile shards in space - in such closs proximity to something of such huge mass -also be under the sphere of its' gravity and concievably - being pulled towards the giant ship by its' gravity, threatend the escape pod which, under the force of thrust, is pulled in the opposite direction?

That is to say - the escape pods thrust has a large enough force to escape the gravity of the giant ship.

But the missiles shards and shrapnel would head towards the oncoming Escape pod with a speed of a) the force of the explosion which propels the missiles + b) the pull of the gravity of the ship.

And this would put them on a collision course?

And of course this depends on the mass of the ship and whether its' gravity field was sufficiently strong?

Or is this all wrong - since I am not a physicist and am going off of imaginative science fiction

Pete

Oh that is a very good question indeed. Well I don't know if I can say you're correct or not, but I think I should clarify somethings first about gravity.

It is a very common misconception (therefor no fault of you or anyone) that there is this sphere of gravity emanating from a large mass, usually a planet or star. A larger misconception is the idea that at a certain distance from an object, their gravity pull is stopped. The fact of the matter is however, gravity doesn't stop anywhere, it is always there. No matter how far away you are from the Earth, the Earth's gravity is still acting on you. However the farther away you are, the less it affects you. Say you were 5 light years away from Earth. The planet's gravity would still be affecting you (never mind the gravity of our sun and all the other planets, asteroids, comets, and what have you) but due to the distance the gravitational pull on Earth on you would be so negligible, so infinitesimally small that you wouldn't even know it was there. In that light every star in the sky does have some affect on you, but so small compared to the Earth below your feet. The sun and the moon affect us more though. Matter of fact the sun affects the moon's movement more than the Earth, despite distance since the Sun is so large.

So to part of your question, the escape pod is affected by the gravitational field of Macross 7. However then we must ask ourselves, what is the gravitational field strength of M7 (aka the gravitational acceleration). Well I don't know but I might imagine it is pretty small. As large as the ship is, it is nowhere near the size of a planet or asteroid (or dwarf planet if you must, but the classification is rather pointless, but Pluto isn't a planet still). The ships have gravity, hell even an individual person has gravity, but I don't think it is that much. Given time the pod would be pulled into the ship by gravity, but I think it would take quite a long while. Now of course I am not taking into account the effect of artificial gravity... they seem to have the ability to create that in Macross... but I have no idea how it works. Maybe is artificially adds or subtract mass to change gravity, or maybe it alters the gravitational constant in small areas. I have no idea how you'd do that but that is why it is called science fiction. I don't know if that technology would change the conditions or not.

So then the escape pod isn't really thrusting to escape the gravitational pull of the ship (this is what we refer to as escape velocity, although thrusting is an acceleration actually) it is just thrusting to pick up velocity and move. As for the missile shards. Well I would imagine the explosions of the missile would probably disintegrate the missile casing and you wouldn't be left with much that could do too much damage. While it is true in space the smallest particles can be deadly, we are dealing with the future here where ships are made of better materials that can withstand things better. Now if there were sufficient pieces of the missile left after the explosion they would have a direction and velocity (or velocity vector by technical terms) caused by the force of the explosion, but they wouldn't all be going in the same direction. Explosions create an omni-directional outward force, so the pieces would be traveling outward away from the explosion.

I feel like I'm rambling. To get to the point, I think there wouldn't be much to worry about in your scenario. I believe that there wouldn't be too much debris from an exploding missile that didn't hit anything. Also I can safely assume that the ships of the Macross 7 fleet are far too light in mass to have a noticeable gravitational field by human standards. While there is gravity, it is too small that it would take a long time for stuff to be pulled down to the center of gravity. The ships are also moving I believe, though it is hard to tell but they most likely have some velocity. So in my opinion, I think the escape pod is safe from anything more than the Protodeviln firing another missile at it that might actually hit.

That ended up longer than I intended, hope it helps though. Questions are good, it is good to always wonder about things. So if you are curious about anything else, never hesitate. I'll do my best to answer.

[Dangard Ace]

Towards the end of the chapter Basara plays the acoustic guitar only version of "My Soul for You". If anyone has that number please let me know I've been trying to get it for years!

Macross 7: Firebomber Let's Fire! CD track 11.

Torrent Macross 7 OST.

[Freiflug88]

Marzan was looking for audio of Basra's accustic guitar only with zero vocals. Unfortunately since its just a short BGM piece on loop so they never seemed to bother releasing it in an album. The best solution I could come up for was to simply rip some audio from the episode with audicity:

http://rapidshare.com/files/320011104/My_S...Guitar.wav.html

#Note rapidshare link is good for only 9 downloads or so more. If their is interest I will reload file.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Freiflug88

[Marzan]

Marzan was looking for audio of Basra's accustic guitar only with zero vocals. Unfortunately since its just a short BGM piece on loop so they never seemed to bother releasing it in an album. The best solution I could come up for was to simply rip some audio from the episode with audicity:

http://rapidshare.com/files/320011104/My_S...Guitar.wav.html

#Note rapidshare link is good for only 9 downloads or so more. If their is interest I will reload file.

Thanks Again for the post!

[VFTF1]

I would like to ask Dex one more question - about those pads.... and by the by - I think it's awesome that our discussion of Macross 7 has stopped focusing for a minute on peace, love, songs, galactic romance etc and actually focused a bit on science fiction and physics - this is a welcome avenue of discussion.

Anyways - back to the pads. You mentioned they might be recyclable - I was also thinking about the issue of their disposability. I mean, it would be pretty expensive to have a complex machine like that and then...what?...patrons just toss it in the trash after the show? Or leave it, like a popcorn box, under their seat for the cleaning ladies to worry about later?

And then...I realized that...why not?

Maybe it is a disposal super computer pad. Maybe technology in Macross 7 has advanced to the point where it is really cheap to produce such things - as cheap as or MORE cheap than paper even.

I mean - if you stop to think about it - making paper is technically not something anybody can do either. But the production of paper has been perfected to such a point that we can now literally whipe or butts with it and throw it away Or - we can pass out free pieces of paper as brochures with information- knowing full well that people will throw them away.

So... why can't technology make a similar leap and maybe one day - computer pads will be so cheap to produce that they will be used like paper - disposable.

We shouldn't assume that technology advances but productivity remains flat. That would actually not be possible. If Macross 7 is a world where people have customized variable mecha, then it can also be a world where computerized brochures are disposable and don't need to be recycled, and don't need to cost as much as we would pay for them in our world/time.

Pete

Edited December 14, 2009 by VFTF1

[Master Dex]

I would like to ask Dex one more question - about those pads.... and by the by - I think it's awesome that our discussion of Macross 7 has stopped focusing for a minute on peace, love, songs, galactic romance etc and actually focused a bit on science fiction and physics - this is a welcome avenue of discussion.

Anyways - back to the pas. You mentioned they might be recyclable - I was also thinking about the issue of their disposability. I mean, it would be pretty expensive to have a complex machine like that and then...what?...patrons just toss it in the trash after the show? Or leave it, like a popcorn box, under their seat for the cleaning ladies to worry about later?

And then...I realized that...why not?

Maybe it is a disposal super computer pad. Maybe technology in Macross 7 has advanced to the point where it is really cheap to produce such things - as cheap as or MORE cheap than paper even.

I mean - if you stop to think about it - making paper is technically not something anybody can do either. But the production of paper has been perfected to such a point that we can now literally whipe or butts with it and throw it away Or - we can pass out free pieces of paper as brochures with information- knowing full well that people will throw them away.

So... why can't technology make a similar leap and maybe one day - computer pads will be so cheap to produce that they will be used like paper - disposal.

We shouldn't assume that technology advances but productivity remains flat. That would actually not be possible. If Macross 7 is a world where people have customized variable mecha, then it can also be a world where computerized brochures are disposable and don't need to be recycled, and don't need to cost as much as we would pay for them in our world/time.

Pete

Entirely true. Just look at Moore's Law. Moore's Law states that computer power doubles every 18 months. Hard to believe but true. With that the price of such technology also changes. In 30 years it is estimated that a computer chip could cost as low as 2 cents, that is cheaper than paper is today almost. With computer power being that cheap, it almost becomes more economical, and environmentally sound to use disposable or recyclable computer systems in place of paper like I described earlier.

While I wouldn't say the brochure pads in that episode were capable of super computer processing (probably very basically programmed) it is true that 30 years from now we will be taking computers and internet for granted the same way we do electricity today. To quote from famed Theoretical Physicist Dr. Michio Kaku (a personal favorite of mine): "Today we walk into a room and we expect there to be electricity, we expect there to be lights. We don't think about whether or not the electricity is there or not because we know it is everywhere in the walls, just invisible. 30 years from now the same will happen with computers and the internet. We will walk into a room and without thinking expect to automatically have internet access anywhere in the room. The internet will be in the walls just as electricity is now, invisible like today."

I wouldn't think of the pads as fully disposable, as I imagine that full disposability on a star ship involved incineration or dumping into space. The pads could be easily recycled, like a bin as people leave the concert for the brocures (much like the bin you dump 3D glasses in after a movie in theaters) and then reprogrammed for another event. Going green is important in a closed habitat like a space craft or colony because pollution won't take as long to affect you as on a planet. While you could dump all your trash into space and it is just as fine, why not reuse those resources. Resources are finite, especially on a space craft. I'd be hesitant to dump something if I have a very limited supply of that material at the moment before a resupply.

Very good and fascinating points of discussion Pete. Granted I realize I brought them up first, but you helped flesh out the context more. While it may not be exactly relating to the story of Macross 7, it is relevant. From the previews for the next episode I already have a good idea of some of the things I could bring up for my science bit.

[VFTF1]

"Today we walk into a room and we expect there to be electricity, we expect there to be lights.

I don't I live in a town where electricity started coursing in 1968. I remember that - up until about 2005 there would be a black out in my town if a gust of wind came through - seriously. If the wind blew, or there was a thunder storm - a mild, normal thunderstorm - it would take them like a week to turn the electricity back on for the entire town. When I walk into a house in Poland, I don't expect it to even have central heating, more likely there is a coal oven. Internet? Forget it. In the bigger cities - yes. Out in the boonies - no. Except for nutballs like me But when you take into account that the vast majority of people live in the boonies - that is sure a lot of folks who are late to the "oh cool! We have electricity" party. Mass warfare tends to regress civilization. Before WWII, there were telephones and electricity. When the Nazis were here, there were telephones and electricity. When the Soviets came - they took all the telephone poles down, and the electricity was cut. It came back in 1968. I guess my travels to crazy parts of the universe called Earth have taught me not to take anything - not even electricity - for granted.

The point of my little history lesson is to demonstrate that I think it is impossible to talk about technological progress without talking about the human condition - if people are busy fighting wars or hunting for ethnic minorities and blowing up buildings, bridges, roads and eachother - science regresses. And contrary to how easy and accessable it seems to us - it can dissapear in a flash and take decades to regain.

Going green is important in a closed habitat like a space craft or colony because pollution won't take as long to affect you as on a planet. While you could dump all your trash into space and it is just as fine, why not reuse those resources. Resources are finite, especially on a space craft. I'd be hesitant to dump something if I have a very limited supply of that material at the moment before a resupply.

I'm not sure going any color is important in a closed habitat like a space craft, since everything in the craft is artificial. There are no "natural resources" on a Macross colony ship - there is only what the human mind decides to put there and cultivate.

But you are right that the problem of scarcity would be more direct. However, the valkyrie are a good point of reference. They run on nuclear engines. I would imagine that fission power and nuclear energy - barring the development of something more efficient and safer - would be in wide use on the colony ships.

Above all though - it seems that in the Macross universe there are really a variety of diverse ideas about energy and resources and how to deal with scarcity. Just look at the differences between Galaxy and Frontier. I know the show painted this picture where Galaxy was full of Dr. Frankensteins while Frontier was full of normal people - but that is kind of a stereotype that was necessary to tell a story. In reality, Galaxy is home to human beings, just like Frontier. And just like there were corrupt and evil people on Galaxy, let's not forget that Frontier had its' fair share too. And just like Galaxy's extremist reliance on human science came at certain human costs - Frontier was not perfect either. Ranka was commiting a crime by keeping AIkun and not reporting him - breaking the Environmental Act - just like the President with his cigars. But people and laws are imperfect.

Anyways - back to the exact science of Macross 7 --- I get the feeling that the biggest novelty here is just the very concept of a Domed colony. Kawamori seems to get into the more technical aspects of how it would function in Frontier - but here it's just the idea of humanity living on these huge clamb like domes that is the big scientific advance.

Oh - and the radios... I know this was last episode, where we saw the radio...although...wasn't Mylene listening to one? ... Anyways -- if we're talking about "going Green" - I figured out a great way to explain the 90s looking radios:

Wind Up Radios I read about some enviro-dude who invented wind up radios that don't even need to be plugged into a socket. You just wind it up and it goes.... For how long? I dunno...but it does

Ok...now I'm rambling

One last note: Personally - I LIKE the fact that Macross blends futurism with contemporary, "normal" life things. That is to say - look at fashion - I really like how they have all this advanced technology but girls still wear dresses and you see guys in suits. And young people still have different styles. And they still wear ties to school... There's a lot of constants. It's like - just take a snap shot of street life in a contemporary urban setting today in a developed country - and put it in space.

I like how Macross doesn't have to revolutionize everything we are familiar with in the name of "making it look like a unique future."

And I like the blending of advanced technology with more old fashioned stuff. For me - this is very close to life - because I live in a country which is a constant tapestry of radical contrasts. You can drive out on the streets here and still see farmers riding horse/carriage buggy contraptions from the 19th century on the same street as you can see the newest BMWs or Lexus or whatever luxury car you can think of.

And it has less to do with some kind of "rich/poor" divide and more - I think - to do with people's life styles and habits. Just like in Amsterdam lots of people who can afford cars prefer to ride bikes and hot girls date men who put them on the back of a bycicle and don't look down on them for not putting them into a nice car - so too in Poland there is still a lively country side where people ride horses, or where you can catch people driving horse/buggy combos. Everything is mixed. It all coexists.

And that's the case in Macross too - which is one of the things I really like. I hate sci-fi which homogenizes the human experience in the name of one view of what a rationalistic scientific future will look like. This bugs me about say -Star Trek. And Isaac Assimov tends to do this as well with his Foundation Series.

Pete

stops his rambling...

[Renato]

I know this is much later in the show, but I remember an episode where Mylene or somebody takes their data-pad thing to some kind of outlet, pays in money, inserts the end of the pad into a slot and instantly the "data" is updated, and lo and behold, you have the new issue of the newspaper/magazine.

I think that was a pretty cool idea.

[Uxi]

I'm caught up to Ep 5. Will watch Ep 6 and should be ready for next week. Ep 5 was pretty good, as well. Funny how Basara kept blowing off arms with his missiles.

[Master Dex]

I don't I live in a town where electricity started coursing in 1968. I remember that - up until about 2005 there would be a black out in my town if a gust of wind came through - seriously. If the wind blew, or there was a thunder storm - a mild, normal thunderstorm - it would take them like a week to turn the electricity back on for the entire town. When I walk into a house in Poland, I don't expect it to even have central heating, more likely there is a coal oven. Internet? Forget it. In the bigger cities - yes. Out in the boonies - no. Except for nutballs like me But when you take into account that the vast majority of people live in the boonies - that is sure a lot of folks who are late to the "oh cool! We have electricity" party. Mass warfare tends to regress civilization. Before WWII, there were telephones and electricity. When the Nazis were here, there were telephones and electricity. When the Soviets came - they took all the telephone poles down, and the electricity was cut. It came back in 1968. I guess my travels to crazy parts of the universe called Earth have taught me not to take anything - not even electricity - for granted.

The point of my little history lesson is to demonstrate that I think it is impossible to talk about technological progress without talking about the human condition - if people are busy fighting wars or hunting for ethnic minorities and blowing up buildings, bridges, roads and eachother - science regresses. And contrary to how easy and accessable it seems to us - it can dissapear in a flash and take decades to regain.

Well I think Dr. Kaku was more or less referring the urbanized areas of the world, which are the areas that have the biggest effect on the world today. However it is good to not take things for granted.

I'm not sure going any color is important in a closed habitat like a space craft, since everything in the craft is artificial. There are no "natural resources" on a Macross colony ship - there is only what the human mind decides to put there and cultivate.

But you are right that the problem of scarcity would be more direct. However, the valkyrie are a good point of reference. They run on nuclear engines. I would imagine that fission power and nuclear energy - barring the development of something more efficient and safer - would be in wide use on the colony ships.

Above all though - it seems that in the Macross universe there are really a variety of diverse ideas about energy and resources and how to deal with scarcity. Just look at the differences between Galaxy and Frontier. I know the show painted this picture where Galaxy was full of Dr. Frankensteins while Frontier was full of normal people - but that is kind of a stereotype that was necessary to tell a story. In reality, Galaxy is home to human beings, just like Frontier. And just like there were corrupt and evil people on Galaxy, let's not forget that Frontier had its' fair share too. And just like Galaxy's extremist reliance on human science came at certain human costs - Frontier was not perfect either. Ranka was commiting a crime by keeping AIkun and not reporting him - breaking the Environmental Act - just like the President with his cigars. But people and laws are imperfect.

Anyways - back to the exact science of Macross 7 --- I get the feeling that the biggest novelty here is just the very concept of a Domed colony. Kawamori seems to get into the more technical aspects of how it would function in Frontier - but here it's just the idea of humanity living on these huge clamb like domes that is the big scientific advance.

Oh - and the radios... I know this was last episode, where we saw the radio...although...wasn't Mylene listening to one? ... Anyways -- if we're talking about "going Green" - I figured out a great way to explain the 90s looking radios:

Wind Up Radios I read about some enviro-dude who invented wind up radios that don't even need to be plugged into a socket. You just wind it up and it goes.... For how long? I dunno...but it does

Ok...now I'm rambling

One last note: Personally - I LIKE the fact that Macross blends futurism with contemporary, "normal" life things. That is to say - look at fashion - I really like how they have all this advanced technology but girls still wear dresses and you see guys in suits. And young people still have different styles. And they still wear ties to school... There's a lot of constants. It's like - just take a snap shot of street life in a contemporary urban setting today in a developed country - and put it in space.

I like how Macross doesn't have to revolutionize everything we are familiar with in the name of "making it look like a unique future."

And I like the blending of advanced technology with more old fashioned stuff. For me - this is very close to life - because I live in a country which is a constant tapestry of radical contrasts. You can drive out on the streets here and still see farmers riding horse/carriage buggy contraptions from the 19th century on the same street as you can see the newest BMWs or Lexus or whatever luxury car you can think of.

And it has less to do with some kind of "rich/poor" divide and more - I think - to do with people's life styles and habits. Just like in Amsterdam lots of people who can afford cars prefer to ride bikes and hot girls date men who put them on the back of a bycicle and don't look down on them for not putting them into a nice car - so too in Poland there is still a lively country side where people ride horses, or where you can catch people driving horse/buggy combos. Everything is mixed. It all coexists.

And that's the case in Macross too - which is one of the things I really like. I hate sci-fi which homogenizes the human experience in the name of one view of what a rationalistic scientific future will look like. This bugs me about say -Star Trek. And Isaac Assimov tends to do this as well with his Foundation Series.

Pete

stops his rambling...

Yes... I'd hope we would have better than fission before long space missions, that wouldn't be efficient. However we know in Macross they have nuclear fusion, or some augmented type based on OTEC. They seem to have also at least cracked pair annihilation for the purposes of weaponry, so they are on their way to finding out how to use it for energy collection.

As a futurist, I often think about what the future can look like. While I understand what you mean about futurism and contemporary vs what Star Trek often shows, you have to keep in mind that Macross 7 takes place only 35 years from now (albeit in an altered reality where and alien space ship crashed in 1999) and Star Trek takes place 300 years in the future. Nothing stays the same forever. However I do agree that some things would be similar for a long time to come. Often is the fads of the teenage generation that shapes what the world will be most like next but things like men wearing suits to work and such will probably never get old unless the casual workplace idea catches on big time. However Star Trek rarely shows life outside a star ship, so one can't say that it is the same everywhere. I have it on good authority (the latest movie is a decent example of this) that on Earth in the Star Trek universe, not everything is super sciencey and futuristic. It just so happens on star ships they are, because that is how people dress and act in that profession. Starfleet is a military after all.

I also think about futurism a lot since I am working on my own sci-fi novels, each set in different time periods, all far in our future. However I am not quick to make everyone and everything so different just because it is the future. Some things change with time, while some things about people never change. How different a time is from ours really does depend on how far it is in the past or future.

[BeyondTheGrave]

just watched the movie.

Pedro irritated me; sad to say i wanted him dead.

Emilia Jenius is hot.

now to try and watch D7

[Gubaba]

just watched the movie.

Pedro irritated me; sad to say i wanted him dead.

Emilia Jenius is hot.

now to try and watch D7

You're WAAAAY ahead of the schedule...

[BeyondTheGrave]

You're WAAAAY ahead of the schedule...

technically i never finished the series from the first time.

That or I'm from the future.

[Uxi]

Wherever you're from, would be more polite to stay with the subject or not post until we get there. Or do another thread.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Uxi

[BeyondTheGrave]

I probably should have but didn't want to put it in another thread and create a huge M7debate.

anyway ... episode 5/6...

at this point it was still painful for me to watch it. An felt feel basara is in way at certain situations. makes me wonder where the series is going to end up.

[RedWolf]

I do wonder what that brat is doing in 2059. He should be around Ranka's age.

[VFTF1]

You're WAAAAY ahead of the schedule...

Yeah - he kinda is - but since I go off topic and break my own guidelines every now and then too... I guess the point is to try to at least bring it back to the episode in question and not go too far off the deep end.

Which is why I'm not going to respond to Dex right away - to keep it from turning into a debate that's too dissattached from the episode.

My proposal: Dex raises some good questions about futurism - let's see how the issues he brings up play out in eisode 7 and keep them in mind as we discuss the next episodes.

As for the movies - doesn't one of them happen sometime DURING the series? Namely when Bassara later goes off on his artsy fartsy quest for self-knowledge?

Pete

[RedWolf]

As for the movies - doesn't one of them happen sometime DURING the series? Namely when Bassara later goes off on his artsy fartsy quest for self-knowledge?

Pete

I'd place The Galaxy is Calling Me post Rax, Fleet of the Strongest Women too.

[Keith]

Keith's official gestimation of the placement of "The Galaxy Is Calling Me" is between episodes 42 & 43.

[Renato]

According to Macross Chronicle, "The Galaxy is Calling Me" takes place just after the destruction of Planet Lux (not sure the episode number).

Unless I missed it, they do not address the issue of when to place "Fleet of the Strongest Women" in the timeline.

Anyway.... EPISODE SIX

Great episode, saw it on the train. I guess it will just sound like I'm echoing thoughts here, but I also believe Basara is having another hard day. He has to get through with his song, but when lives are in danger even he has to fight. And he gets angry not only with himself for that, but also with the enemy for not giving him any other option. "You made me shoot!!" In a way it is childish. "I'm trying to do something and you're ruining it!" I thought this outlook was interesting. He doesn't hate the enemy, he sees potential and hope in them, but is frustrated that they don't give him a chance.

Some people mentioned that he seems more calm at the end, when he is strumming the guitar quietly. I'm not sure, I think he is still in deep thought, and a bit melancholic. I don't think he's pleased that he is basically powerless.

VFTF1, you say we "know" that Basara took the missiles out, but I don't think he ever does. I think he leaves them in, just in case.

One other thing worthy of note is how different Mylene acts around Gamlin. She didn't like the idea of the arranged marriage, but it's interesting to see that she is not irresponsible so that she would go and purposefully sabotage it, since the band's work is at stake. Thus she acts like a nice, educated, well-mannered young lady to give Gamlin a good impression. Of course, she is being a total phoney, but this shows the lengths she is willing to go for the success of the band.

As for the acoustic version of My Soul For You.... OK, the "acoustic version" on Let's Fire, the version on "Acoustic Fire" and the guitar-only one that appears on TV are all different. It was only released ONCE on CD, and that was on the Ticke-MagaCD single that came with advance tickets for "Galaxy is Calling Me". But anyway, that is all discussion for the "Fire Bomber Music" thread.

EDIT -- It's not just a BGM loop, btw..

Edited December 15, 2009 by Renato

[Keith]

"The Galaxy Is Calling Me" only works right after "Desperate Capture Operation," and before "Individual Farewells." Since the combining ability of Gabil/Glabil was unknown before that.

[Master Dex]

Yeah - he kinda is - but since I go off topic and break my own guidelines every now and then too... I guess the point is to try to at least bring it back to the episode in question and not go too far off the deep end.

Which is why I'm not going to respond to Dex right away - to keep it from turning into a debate that's too dissattached from the episode.

My proposal: Dex raises some good questions about futurism - let's see how the issues he brings up play out in eisode 7 and keep them in mind as we discuss the next episodes.

As for the movies - doesn't one of them happen sometime DURING the series? Namely when Bassara later goes off on his artsy fartsy quest for self-knowledge?

Pete

That's fair, the topic seemed to be coming to a close to me anyway. I'm more interested in the upcoming episode and what could be discussed there.

I like Galaxy is calling me personally, but then again I strange fascinating with the very large and mysteriously hidden Jenius family. It was nice they at least showed two of their daughters on screen as older than 1 year of age. I won't lie, I liked Emilia too, she was cool.

[VFTF1]

VFTF1, you say we "know" that Basara took the missiles out, but I don't think he ever does. I think he leaves them in, just in case.

Good point... in the rainy day episode where we see him working to take them out and he and Rey have the 'umbrella' discussion - we don't see if he takes them out 100% for sure...

Anyways.... BAD TEMPORARY NEWS:

My laptop has been infected by a virus - I even know where it's from and it's a damn boot system virus, so I can't even use the recovery disk to at least get the thing to function. I'll call the techs tomorrow, and failing them being able to tell me what to do over the phone, will probably have to take it to them...hopefully it'll all work out and I'll be able to watch the next episode with everyone on Friday. But if I don't - somebody gonna have to pick up the slack.

I do have internet in my little cell phone and can catch the episode on Youtube... but it'll be hard to write a long essay on my little touch screen phone...

anyways - if I do miss out on Friday's episode - Please - somebody pick up the slack and keep the thread going until I'm fully technologically operational again.

Pete

[RedWolf]

I like Galaxy is calling me personally, but then again I strange fascinating with the very large and mysteriously hidden Jenius family. It was nice they at least showed two of their daughters on screen as older than 1 year of age. I won't lie, I liked Emilia too, she was cool.

Then Macross M3 game came and introduced us to an unknown before adopted daughter, Moaramia. Think of her personality as a mix of Mylene and loli Klan.

At least there is an excuse why she wasn't around when Mylene was born. She is a Special Forces pilot assigned to another ship.

[Marzan]

One other thing worthy of note is how different Mylene acts around Gamlin. She didn't like the idea of the arranged marriage, but it's interesting to see that she is not irresponsible so that she would go and purposefully sabotage it, since the band's work is at stake. Thus she acts like a nice, educated, well-mannered young lady to give Gamlin a good impression. Of course, she is being a total phoney, but this shows the lengths she is willing to go for the success of the band.

As for the acoustic version of My Soul For You.... OK, the "acoustic version" on Let's Fire, the version on "Acoustic Fire" and the guitar-only one that appears on TV are all different. It was only released ONCE on CD, and that was on the Ticke-MagaCD single that came with advance tickets for "Galaxy is Calling Me". But anyway, that is all discussion for the "Fire Bomber Music" thread.

EDIT -- It's not just a BGM loop, btw..

I'd have to say that even though Mylene is totally opposed to an arranged marriage, she's also had her interest piqued by the young pilot who together with Basara saved their lives, don't you think? Of course being able to stay in the band is her paramount concern, but I think we can't rule out that she could genuinely want to meet up with a hot shot pilot.

And thanks a lot for the info on MY Soul for You!

[Jasonc]

I like the whole thing with Mylene being set up with Gamlin. Miriya sees that her daughter is now at the age when she needs to think about marriage (at what 14, I think it's kinda an old tradition). To me, it looked as though Mylene's reaction to that was more like a "do I really have to?" response. However, the terms on which they meet is very interesting.

This episode was very rich with Mac II music, which I do like as well. I find it fun to see the "artists" of the various Mac II songs in action, especially Ultra Rave. LOL.

With Basara, he still has missiles loaded on his 19, so either he didn't have time to take them out, or he is unsure what route he's gonna go. Will he need them later, and should keep them, or does he remove them. In this ep., he uses them yet again. In anycase, not much happens that's too different from the other episodes. Fun episode though.

[mickyg]

Everyone's basically said all the main things that I would have. A couple of items of interest to me though (coming from someone who's never seen M7 and only knows the basic storyline from reading a few summaries on Wikipedia):

• What's with the shuttle?
• Is it using some kind of IFF that keeps changing designations? That part wasn't completely clear to me.
• Is it ever explained why Gamlin's hair is modeled after Wolvarene?
• The songs in ep1 were really annoying to me the first time I watched/listened to it a few months back. Now they're growing on me.
• Gamlin at least knows about the VF-19 being a new valkyrie and knows at least partly what it's capabilities are. I'm interested to know a bit more about how this will all play out. Someone mentioned Mac Plus came out before 7 so I guess we're meant to know this was in development. Is that order correct?

What's with the shuttle?

Looking forward to ep7

[Gubaba]

Gamlin at least knows about the VF-19 being a new valkyrie and knows at least partly what it's capabilities are. I'm interested to know a bit more about how this will all play out. Someone mentioned Mac Plus came out before 7 so I guess we're meant to know this was in development. Is that order correct?

Sort of. The first episode of Plus was released on August 25, 1994. Macross 7 debuted on October 16 of the same year. Plus Episode 2 came out on January 1, 1995, between episodes 11 and 12 of Mac7. Plus episode 3 was released on Feburary 21 (between episodes 18 and 19 of Mac7) and the final episode was June 25 (same day as Mac7 episode 36).

So viewers watching at the time would've seen the Fire Valkyrie BEFORE they saw the YF-19, and by the second episode of Plus, were probably ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the 19 would win Project Supernova.

[RedWolf]

I like the whole thing with Mylene being set up with Gamlin. Miriya sees that her daughter is now at the age when she needs to think about marriage (at what 14, I think it's kinda an old tradition). To me, it looked as though Mylene's reaction to that was more like a "do I really have to?" response. However, the terms on which they meet is very interesting.

Well remember around 35 years ago they went into a severe depopulation plus Millia was married when she was 15 years old.

[Jasonc]

Well remember around 35 years ago they went into a severe depopulation plus Millia was married when she was 15 years old.

Wait, fill me in here. A depopulation I understand from Space War 1. Was Milia 15 yrs old when she got married? Where is that mentioned? If in M7 (the ep. I missed), I'll have to rewatch it.

[RedWolf]

Wait, fill me in here. A depopulation I understand from Space War 1. Was Milia 15 yrs old when she got married? Where is that mentioned? If in M7 (the ep. I missed), I'll have to rewatch it.

According to Macross Compendium Millia was 15 during Space War 1. Max was 16.

Despite his looks Gamlin is 19 years old.

Basara was both their senior at 21.

Oddly Miho Miho is older than Sally Ford. Miho Miho is 23 while Sally is 21. Millia got me confused on the age thing when she tried to hook Gamlin and Miho Miho. I thought Miho Miho was younger than Gamlin.

[Marzan]

According to Macross Compendium Millia was 15 during Space War 1. Max was 16.

Despite his looks Gamlin is 19 years old.

Basara was both their senior at 21.

Oddly Miho Miho is older than Sally Ford. Miho Miho is 23 while Sally is 21. Millia got me confused on the age thing when she tried to hook Gamlin and Miho Miho. I thought Miho Miho was younger than Gamlin.

Basara is 21?? I'm surprised there's even a date of birth for him. I thought his origins were shrouded in mistery?

[VFTF1]

It doesn't matter what the creator or the official source says about their age. Bassara looks like he's 9 years old, and this whole show is about exploitation of child labor! You better lesson to me kaz I now wat im talknig boat.

Pete

Writing from internet cafe

Should be back on line by Friday/the weekend

Lesson up!