The MW rewatches M7 together Thread

[Freiflug88]

I mean.. all the songs up to that just seem so... happy.. I think Holy Lonely Night is the first song they play that's actually in a minor key, and it feels so much darker...

Probably has something to do with the fact that Holy Lonely Night is a rip-off of Megadeth's Skin of My teeth...

[Marzan]

Probably has something to do with the fact that Holy Lonely Night is a rip-off of Megadeth's Skin of My teeth...

You serious?! Fukuyama sensei ripping someone off?

Have to hear this song to form an opinion.

[Gubaba]

You serious?! Fukuyama sensei ripping someone off?

Have to hear this song to form an opinion.

The opening is definitely a rip-off...the rest doesn't sound terribly similar.

[sketchley]

Though the two might have been written and released during similar time frames, it doesn't necessarily mean that one copied the other. It could just be random chance that the two ended up sounding the same at certain points.

Another thing to consider is that even if one was released before the other and even if the writer of the later released one had heard the former, the writer may not have deliberately copied the riff. It might be completely accidental - as in, random music being played just happens to be a repeat of a line of music heard only once, and it gets accredited to the person randomly playing and incorprated into the final song.

Nevertheless, I'm happy that Japan doesn't have the legal rod up it's a$$, and these things don't warrant litegation - as it means that cool theme songs like those from Macross, the Terminator, Kill Bill, etc, etc. are played all throughout Japanese TV - especially "wide shows".

[VF5SS]

I know Submarine Street and some song by Boston have the exact same melody.

[Marzan]

The opening is definitely a rip-off...the rest doesn't sound terribly similar.

Agree. The opening is almost identical, but it get's a bit different after that.

I like Fire Bomber better. BOMBA!

[Renato]

I know Submarine Street and some song by Boston have the exact same melody.

♪

It's more than a feeling... when I hear that old song...

♪

RIP Brad Delp.

[Renato]

Nevertheless, I'm happy that Japan doesn't have the legal rod up it's a$$, and these things don't warrant litegation - as it means that cool theme songs like those from Macross, the Terminator, Kill Bill, etc, etc. are played all throughout Japanese TV - especially "wide shows".

Well, I don't think the TV stations are using those tracks without permission. Everything has to go through JASRAC, as I understand it.

[Freiflug88]

The opening is definitely a rip-off...the rest doesn't sound terribly similar.

True, but how I am gonna ignite a FireStormBomb of controversy with a headline like that?

Its like the other day I was reading an article about one of the 11 alleged Russian spies, Anna Chapman. The headline was something like "New Nefarious Breed of Spy" or something and the article goes on to say that Anna Chapman is a brand new, never before seen type of spy: A female agent trained to influtrate america by seducing rich, wealthy men with corporate power while posing as a real-estate agent. Saying that she was a real-life example of a Bond girl would have just been too boring.

Though the two might have been written and released during similar time frames, it doesn't necessarily mean that one copied the other. It could just be random chance that the two ended up sounding the same at certain points.

Another thing to consider is that even if one was released before the other and even if the writer of the later released one had heard the former, the writer may not have deliberately copied the riff. It might be completely accidental - as in, random music being played just happens to be a repeat of a line of music heard only once, and it gets accredited to the person randomly playing and incorprated into the final song.

Nevertheless, I'm happy that Japan doesn't have the legal rod up it's a$$, and these things don't warrant litegation - as it means that cool theme songs like those from Macross, the Terminator, Kill Bill, etc, etc. are played all throughout Japanese TV - especially "wide shows".

I would bet my life they knew full well about "Skin of my Teeth" and that they used it as the intro as a homage. Heck they may have even gotten permission to use the intro from Megadeth just as Led Zepplin got permission to use the intro of "Tarus", from the band Spirit, in their song "Stairway to Heaven".

These things are rarely just an accidental coincidence. Its just that cultural barriers and country boundaries that we take for grant just don't apply for popular entertainment. Ever watched the Gatchaman OVAs they came out around the same time as Macross 7 (1994-1995)? The producer Ryu Yoshida always associated 70s with a favorite of his "Earth, Wind, and Fire" so he actually hired Maurice White and Bill Meyers to compose the entire soundtrack for the Gatchaman OVAs.

[mickyg]

I'm up to episode 29 this week. And I'm enjoying the series quite a bit. No idea if 29 is ahead or behind anymore!

Unfortunately, my usual source for these only goes to ep 28 (thanks Boinger!). Can someone PM me with a source for the rest of the series? I've looked high and low and the ones I find are either horrendously slow to get (like days to get one episode) or they're subbed in Spanish or not subbed at all.

If this post is against forum rules, can a mod please delete?

Thanks,

Michael

[frothymug]

I got my copies from Veoh.com. You have to download their player to watch the whole episode, but it doesn't eat up too much system resources. You can also download the episode using the player, and the quality is much better if you do it that way. I'm sure animea.net can help you out too.

[mickyg]

I tried Veoh and about a year ago, that was the best way for me to get anything Macross related. But in the last few months, everything downloads at .4k a minute or something equally slow. Thanks for the tip though. Perhaps I'll need to keep trying veoh - maybe it's a slow day.

[Keith]

♪

It's more than a feeling... when I hear that old song...

♪

RIP Brad Delp.

No no no, Submarine Street is clearly Queen's "Misfire."

[ae_productions]

♪

It's more than a feeling... when I hear that old song...

♪

RIP Brad Delp.

Brad was the man. Too bad RTZ never took off. Good stuff. But not as good as Boston was.

[Renato]

No no no, Submarine Street is clearly Queen's "Misfire."

That brings back a few memories. I have that album on vinyl.

But yeah, VF5SS is right, Sub Street has many more similarities to "More than a Feeling" than "Misfire", which really only seems similar in terms of the opening riff.

[Keith]

That brings back a few memories. I have that album on vinyl.

But yeah, VF5SS is right, Sub Street has many more similarities to "More than a Feeling" than "Misfire", which really only seems similar in terms of the opening riff.

We're gonna have to just disagree there, as I think it was quite the opposite. Slow down Misfire a bit, and it's not dead on, but a lot closer.

[Boxer]

Hi all.

Spotted this thread a while ago and it encouraged me to finally check out Macross 7. I've just finished Episode 19 after rushing to catch up, since I'd like to participate in the discussion.

Firstly I guess I should say where I'm coming from. SDF:M's animeigo set is the only experience I've had with Macross so far (no Plus, no F, nothing). Since I'm a mech head though, I've already read up on the nature of the Varuta/Protodevilin and know some game-breaking spoilers. However, I've found that reading synopsis isn't the same as 'actually being there' when you're watching the series, so I set out to do so. Have it playing side-by-side with artwork I'm making, so I might have missed one or two minor details.

Before watching the series I had the opinion that it was full of craziness, the Basara was just a hotheaded singer who was obsessed with singing and didn't care really who or what was in his way. I thought the human face mecha was silly, and the concept of singing at your enemy was some new-age thought processes that somehow tried to find legitimacy in a super robot show. *shrug*

I've been forming some thoughts as I watch, as I kept this thread in mind to share my opinions about this crazy thing called Macross 7.

First is the early-episode assessment of Gamlin from some of the other posters here. Keeping that in mind as I watched the early episodes, I didn't think Gamiln's reaction to Basra was over the top. If anything it's what I would have expected to feel if some clown in a civilian plane started dancing in the middle of combat blaring rock music. Without knowing Basra's plans or intentions I'd get angry at him too... since not only is he dancing in the way of combat and messing up your thinking by obnoxious music, but he's also a Macross 7 civilian and you have to protect him. Gamlin's upset is compounded by the fact that his superiors seem to want the nonsense civilian there, apparently without any clear reason.

In a way that brings me to my second thought... Basra. He never stops to explain his intentions. Without some of the input from the other posters here I think I'd be just as frustrated as Gamlin is. Basra's mode of operation seems to be to sing at people and leave it to them to understand what he's trying to do, or he hopes that they will be so swept up in the power of rock that it wouldn't matter. Putting aside for a moment the fact that I find Planet Dance annoying (perhaps overplayed), that Basra doesn't try to explain to anyone what he's trying to do is probably what makes so many dislike him. He wants you to understand what he's trying to do HIS way, he doesn't try to mediate by giving reason to his rhyming. In a way, I think he brings his own frustrations on himself in the fist few episodes because he doesn't articulate his frustrations other than whining "they just don't get my song".

Moving into my third point, I'm not sure if 'culture shock' is being effective as the cast (and maybe Kawamori?) might hope. Basra's singing doesn't seem to have much effect on the real fighting (except to agitate and anger people). All the while I presumed that Basra's singing might jolt the Varuta pilots out of their trance and it might 'work' that way, but it seems the brainwashed pilots are completely deaf to Basra's signing. So the only thing the Fire Valkyrie seems to contribute so far is as a mobile shield, eye-catching target, and counter to Sivil. Basra's affects seem so specific that it makes me wonder what would happen if the Macross fleet ran into an enemy that had its own culture and music. Basra would be completely superfluous in that case- and probably destroyed first if he insisted on getting in the way of the combatants.

Further on culture shock, it's interesting to compare use and effect here of Culture from Macross TV v Macross 7's understanding and useage. I didn't get the sense that Minmay knew her singing would end the war until the military had in their heads that culture shock was affecting the Zentraedi. It was completely unintentional, and the effects of her singing weren't so much to stop the enemy completely from fighting as they were to stop and wonder what this strange thing was. Knowing this years later, Basara tries to go for this effect deliberately but (so far) fails with the Varuta (except Sivil). The connection was made for Mylene (and us) that Basara's like Minmay during the Minmay episode, but I think the circumstances, causes, and effects are different between the two shows, even though Basra's trying to replicate the 'Minmay effect'. Again, had the enemy been their own culture and not headed by superhuman Protodevilin with orgasmic results a particular weakness for Music, then I think the theme of Macross 7 would have been lost.

On the matter of Sivil... her behavior so far reminds me a lot of the Ilea probe from Star Trek I. She doesn't have much vocalization, and in a way I can interpret her as an independent bio-weapon designed to collect spirita more effectively than the massed fleet or the soul-sucking vampires (whatever happened to them by the way? They seemed to lie low after that one pilot got captured). Oddly enough, like the Ilea Probe, Sivil will respond to a 'human factor' while ultimately defeating any attempts at force used against her (the Trek probe was supposed to have zapped a guard in a cut scene).

Though on Spiria collection... it's a whole 'nother level of horror when you realize that most of the crew in that carrier died without the chance of getting free- they were all zapped and soulless, unable to escape, when they died in the explosion. Spirita sucking is a two-edged sword... you're not dead and you stand the chance of recovery, but on the other hand you're too powerless to escape real death on your own.

So far the series is turning out to be entertaining, and not what I expected when I reflect on the summaries. I really wish 'Planet Dance' wouldn't be the choice of music whenever Basara goes out for combat. I understand that it's the 'theme' of Macross 7's plot (I think,) and I realize Music is Basra's way of fighting, but I really wish he would mix it up a little. I mean, are the fans tolerant of him singing the same song over and over again? I know of it's ear-worm potential... faced that recently with "Sunday Clothes" from Wall-E... I'm willing to bet that the obnoxious harmonica in Planet Dance will prevent it from being stuck in my brain and ultimately liked. Mylene's music is far more enjoyable to my ears... helps some that I like the character

All in all the ride's been an interesting one so far. I'd be tempted to jump ahead as well, though I'm not sure where you guys left off in the series. Episode 19 was the one to have a review last.. though it's been more than one Friday since that one.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Boxer

[Boxer]

Well... Thoughts on Episode 23 before I give it a rest for the night.

This is the episode that premieres the Sound Force. After Basara finally 'shows up' for the ceremony, I have to wonder how many of the UN officers were asking themselves why they were investing so much in such a temperamental diva. It sounds like Basara is ungrateful for the military shelling out two new valkyries to augment his "band in space", and I can see that adding to the sentiment against him by Macross fans. But! The band must go into space, so it has to be despite how many would have misgivings about it. And adding to my earlier thoughts on the usefulness of Basra's valk... I'd wager it won't be useful until confronting the Protodevlin directly (since I know Operation Stargazer is somewhere in the future, I'd guess this would be the 'proof' that conventional forces are useless and Basara's singing is the only hope they have).

The second significant plot point of the episode is, perhaps, Sivil showing herself to Basra for the first time without 'an alias'. She vocalizes what pretty much all of us know she's thinking before flying off and causing the commando vampires to strike again. Still, I noted that Basra got to know Sivil's name without her introducing herself... makes me wonder if Basra 'learned' anything more from the Protodevlin other than that. Though knowing Basra's character he probably wouldn't share that information, since it doesn't pertain to his song or how anyone understands it or not.

I read once about the series some commentary regarding Max and Millia, and I've kept an eye on the exchanges and such between them to see if there was anything to it. I noticed Max here wondered to himself when the conversations between himself and his wife got cold. I always assumed that their marriage always had a level of professionalism to it, since both of them were ace pilots for most of their years and lived pretty much on the front lines (A military life, then?). To me, Max's comment suggests that their relationship got colder even then that. Both them seem to show evidence of the regret of this- Max to me is more obvious in this regard. He keeps asking about Mylene, which to me says he's asking about their marriage. Millia holds on to her Red Valkyrie, even in 'spirit' by adopting a VF-17 and painting it Red (I'd assume she flew a red one before, when she was an Ace in the formal military). Maybe part of her expects one day to have Max come back in a blue counterpart *shrug*.

For my closing thought on this episode... Sivil's 'confrontation' of Basra made me wonder

what the Protoculture Anima Spirita would have looked like when they confronted the Protodevlin long ago. What kind of instruments they had, what kind of music they sung. Sure I guess you can count "Do You Remember Love's" tune as a Genuine protoculture song, but my creative side conjures up images of what that could have been like. My guess is we'd never find out, since the Protocultures will probably be the third-to-last thing explored in the universe of Macross (The first being the fate of Megaroad-01. The Second being the original Supervision Army).

[David Hingtgen]

Boxer---despite this being an M7 thread---go watch Plus *NOW*. It is the best, and M7 is darn near a direct sequel to it. (especially mecha-wise) It surely "sets up the universe" for Seven and Frontier. And it's short, so it won't take you very long.

PS---Milia most certainly did fly a red valk in the military---the same one that was destroyed in 7! She kept it all these years. (she has flown nearly every type of valk, in red, but only her original was kept through all the years) I suggest you re-watch episdoes 27 and 30 of SDF:M again to see it in action. (and 34 I think, trying to remember which eps give it the most screen time)

[Boxer]

Oh, I remember the Red VF-1x (It's hard to miss). My comment relates to Gamlin telling Milia she 'wasn't rated for [the VF-17]'. I thought it was a sure thing by then that she had flown one of the early VF-17s already in her colors. Then again as I think about it, it might be a mis-translation (the one I'm watching has the 'cake' translation from Hikaru's VA, which as I recall was commented on here in the thread). As of Episode 23 it's been destroyed sans the nose cone, so I doubt it shows up in episode 34

Though considering Millia's VF-1 and the mecha in the hands of the civilians, I wonder what the policy is for the UN Spacy to phase out equipment. Those certainly didn't look like VF-1Cs, and who gives a functioning Monster to civilians? In Millia's case I guess her status as a Space War One Legend allows her to keep her VF-1. I wonder if Max had his stashed somewhere (or donated), since he would have known Millia kept hers.

[frothymug]

David was talking about SDFM episode 34, not M7.

[Boxer]

Ah, I mis-read that. I remember she had the valk for whatever operation it was to steal the Factory Satellite at least.

[David Hingtgen]

I always thought Gamlin underestimated Milia there---which is really out of character for him. He *knows* she flew VF-11s (and better than he could), he should know she flew VF-14s. So he of all people shouldn't think a VF-17 is "too much for her". (though based on her comment about how much power it has, it seems she had not flown a -17 before----though it could just be that she'd kind of gotten used to the VF-1 again, having not flown a -11 or -14 for years)

[Boxer]

I need to check my facts more... I presumed there was a VF-17 in the M3 game.

Still, according to the dates in the Macross mecha manual there were three years between the debut of the VF-17D (2035) and the launch of Macross 7 (2038). If a 17A model had been several years earlier than that, could we assume Millia and Max were around to test them?

[ae_productions]

I always thought Gamlin underestimated Milia there---which is really out of character for him. He *knows* she flew VF-11s (and better than he could), he should know she flew VF-14s. So he of all people shouldn't think a VF-17 is "too much for her". (though based on her comment about how much power it has, it seems she had not flown a -17 before----though it could just be that she'd kind of gotten used to the VF-1 again, having not flown a -11 or -14 for years)

Excluding Max, I think Milia is the best pilot in the fleet.

[MacrossCN]

I have a question of Episode.50, On Stage

Who is the left girl?

Thanks

[sketchley]

I have a question of Episode.50, On Stage

Who is the left girl?

Good question. I just checked Macross Chronicle, and she's not in it!

However, given that the rest of the characters she's pictured with, it looks like she's either a reporter, or someone who works with the reporters (ie a manager).

[VFTF1]

Ok - what episode is this thread up to? I recently reviewed Episode 30 on my website after downloading it by accident instead of SDFM TV 30. I'm so behind. I'm so totally behind. Just rebuilding everything - this time I'm putting all my downloads on DVDs for safety's sake. I'm almost done downloading all of SDFM TV, I have DYRL, Haruhi, I'm downloading the Ideon series...

I really wanna get back into Macross 7 and need to go back and read this thread... anyways - here are my thoughts on Episode 30 with lots of screencaps. You can click the thumbnails to increase the picture size. I will slowly be reviewing the entire series - along with all other anime I love... and hopefully getting back up to speed with this topic as well!:

http://dyrl.pl/detale.html?id=966

Pete

[Renato]

I started watching it recently again (long train rides), I'm up to episode 35/36 now. Sivil has just reawakened (sort of) and Basara and Gigil roam Planet Lux in search of her, while Mylene and Gamlin try to catch up.

These are some key episodes where Basara does not sing at all because he is beginning to question the power of song (and thus, his whole existence) while Gigil is the one who started to sing instead.

Also, there's just something I love about the episode with the dinosaur-type monsters in it. They had some interesting designs.

[Marzan]

Ok - what episode is this thread up to? I recently reviewed Episode 30 on my website after downloading it by accident instead of SDFM TV 30. I'm so behind. I'm so totally behind. Just rebuilding everything - this time I'm putting all my downloads on DVDs for safety's sake. I'm almost done downloading all of SDFM TV, I have DYRL, Haruhi, I'm downloading the Ideon series...

I really wanna get back into Macross 7 and need to go back and read this thread... anyways - here are my thoughts on Episode 30 with lots of screencaps. You can click the thumbnails to increase the picture size. I will slowly be reviewing the entire series - along with all other anime I love... and hopefully getting back up to speed with this topic as well!:

http://dyrl.pl/detale.html?id=966

Pete

The thread kinda of stalled due to lack of reviews somewhere in the early twenties (think the last properly reviewed chapter were everyone was participating at the same level was no. 23).

But I guess this is as good a chance as any to restart the thread from episode 30?

[Freiflug88]

If the last review is at episode 23 then I believe that by all means we should start on Episode 24. Starting on episode 30 skips a lot of key points including the season 1 finale at Ep 26 and the game changing sound energy system in Ep 27.

[Marzan]

If the last review is at episode 23 then I believe that by all means we should start on Episode 24. Starting on episode 30 skips a lot of key points including the season 1 finale at Ep 26 and the game changing sound energy system in Ep 27.

I'm by all means ok with starting were we left off. I'm moving to a new place so this weekend is no good for me, but after that I'll be up for it.

[VFTF1]

I'm also all for going from episode 24. I'll download it now and work out a review this week. I'm unfortunately sick now, so haven't got much of a good mind for watching/reviewing...but downloading is something I can do.

I've been busy downloading Turn-A-Gundam... but today I'll try to download the first 24 eps of Macross 7 to at least get caught up. Started to burn these to DVDs too so no worries that a virus or unforeseen event will destroy my anime as has been the case in the past.

Will be back with a review of ep. 24 soon as I can manage.

Pete

[Freiflug88]

Get well soon.

I too will be downloading quite a few M7 episodes to catch up. I actually had the opposite problem in that I decided to delete and/or destroy all the Anime I downloaded on my harddrive and burnt DVDs as I made it my goal to settle for nothing less then the official DVD/Bluray releases. In this case though I have made an exception until I some how save up a $1000 or so to buy the complete Macross 7 boxset off of Amazon.jp.

Speaking of official DVDs though I want to point out that Bandai has actually licensed Turn-A Gundam for a coming release in America so it shouldn't be too long before its gets an official release in Europe as well.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-07-22/bandai-adds-tales-of-the-abyss-turn-a-gundam

I will be rewatching eps 23+24 tonight though so I will probably have a review typed up tomorrow.

[VFTF1]

Speaking of official DVDs though I want to point out that Bandai has actually licensed Turn-A Gundam for a coming release in America so it shouldn't be too long before its gets an official release in Europe as well.

That IS good news! I'm dissapointed that the only Gundam series available in Poland is SEED. I'll be happy to pick Turn-A off the shelf or even get it via amazon.uk when it comes to Europe! Praise be to Bandai! Halleluya!! :-)

Anyways...now I'm just hoping I can manage to download ep. 24 of M7 because by episode 3 I think I'd used up all my alotted GBs on my mobile internet for this month because I downloaded DYRL, Turn-A-Gundam (1-15) and a few other things prior... or maybe the signal is just weak again... beats me...sometimes my mobile internet is super fast, sometimes it's...well...less fast...

I'm just happy to be active in the thread again!

Pete