The MW rewatches M7 together Thread

[Freiflug88]

If any of you is watching the older CA version, you'll get the encore bit with Ray and Akiko's back story. It's pretty poignant stuff as well.

Poignant

1 : pungently pervasive <a poignant perfume>

2 a (1) : painfully affecting the feelings : piercing (2) : deeply affecting : touching b : designed to make an impression : cutting <poignant satire>

3 a : pleasurably stimulating b : being to the point : apt

1. I guess I will have to upgrade to smell-o'vision, I didn't smell anything when I played this Encore.

2. Touching emotional drama in a Macross Love Triangle? You got to be kidding me.

3. Pleasurably stimulating? Oh yeah it would be if only they actually showed us viewers just what in the world Akiko was doing spending her weekend in a log cabin with two Pink Peckers!

[Seto Kaiba]

Okay, last time I'll weigh in on this particular subject so I don't derail this thread too badly...

I believe that without a doubt its a particle cannon.

1. The original and iconic Yamato Wave motion gun which the Macross creators were inspired by was a Particle cannon that relied on accelerated tachyon particles.

Firstly, Macross is not Yamato, and Yamato is not Macross, so one holds true for one does not necessarily hold true for the other. Second, the description does, as you said, call it a "super dimension energy cannon". At no point are particles mentioned. The clear implication is that it is exactly what the description says... a cannon that fires super dimension energy. The Zentradi (and Meltrandi) equivalents are also specifically flagged as being energy beam cannons rather than particle beam cannons.

On the occasions when particle beam cannons do crop up, they're usually identified with distinct terminology that separates them from other flavors of beam weapon, often up to identifying the particle involved (electrically-charged, electron, MDE, etc.).

3. Macross Chronicles description of the VF-27's beam cannon aka the mini-Macross cannon:

This would be a well-reasoned assertion were it not for the faulty basis... the VF-27's beam rifle is, under anti-Vajra spec, a heavy quantum reaction beam cannon, not a super dimension energy cannon. Different technology.

[Master Dex]

This is exactly why I chose not to discuss theories on the Macross cannon and such. The show decided to cinch it as firing super dimension energy, so it couldn't be explained away so easily, and they wouldn't have to do anything. There really isn't much more you can get from it.

I should know better than this, but I'll risk it and note that there isn't much of a need to accelerate tachyons... they already travel faster than the speed of light... but whatever suits your needs I guess. They're just theoretical after all.

[RedWolf]

I was thinking of a reason why the UN spacy kept the transformation for the New Macross class ships was that the Earth scientist could never build a Macross Canon from scratch properly, and their imitations were unstable/Hazardous and it had to be kept away from the inhabited sections of the ship.

There is the SDFN Macross Class. Also Vindirance has a gunship which transforms.

The Protodevlin's Varauta Fleet Flagship Carrier is another matter entirely. Equipped with eight Macross cannons and big anti-fleet Reaction bombs make it quite formidable. The Protodevlin we know co-opts their victim's own technology.

Edited April 4, 2010 by RedWolf

[Dio]

I'm somewhat struck by how Physica's death affects Gamlin - he's now (for the time being) the only surviving/conscious member of Diamond Force, and has to shoulder a pretty heavy burden. I do find it somewhat odd that the enemies would shoot to kill though, as up til now they've primarily been disabling scores of VF-11C fighters and draining spiritia from the cockpits. Was Gigil just getting overzealous this episode?

Which leads to another tech question - what's the ejection system of the VF-17? Is it a detachable cockpit like with the VF-1 & VF-11, or a more conventional ejection seat like with the YF-19? It's interesting that we don't see many ejections in Macross aside from these (even in Frontier we only see them jump out of the cockpit in their EX-Gear), that's something that would have been neat to get more elaboration on.

[Dio]

I'm somewhat struck by how Physica's death affects Gamlin - he's now (for the time being) the only surviving/conscious member of Diamond Force, and has to shoulder a pretty heavy burden. I do find it somewhat odd that the enemies would shoot to kill though, as up til now they've primarily been disabling scores of VF-11C fighters and draining spiritia from the cockpits. Was Gigil just getting overzealous this episode?

Which leads to another tech question - what's the ejection system of the VF-17? Is it a detachable cockpit like with the VF-1 & VF-11, or a more conventional ejection seat like with the YF-19? It's interesting that we don't see many ejections in Macross aside from these (even in Frontier we only see them jump out of the cockpit in their EX-Gear), that's something that would have been neat to get more elaboration on.

[Marzan]

just what in the world Akiko was doing spending her weekend in a log cabin with two Pink Peckers!

Before ever watching M7 I would have never thought that a girl spending a weekend in a log cabin with two Pink Pecker's would have had her heart broken!

[Freiflug88]

I'm somewhat struck by how Physica's death affects Gamlin - he's now (for the time being) the only surviving/conscious member of Diamond Force, and has to shoulder a pretty heavy burden.

Captain Kinryu is still there. Your just mistaking a future episode.

I do find it somewhat odd that the enemies would shoot to kill though, as up til now they've primarily been disabling scores of VF-11C fighters and draining spiritia from the cockpits. Was Gigil just getting overzealous this episode?

At the same time Gigil is always annoyed by the Diamond Force VF-17 fighters getting in the way so maybe he ordered his goons to shoot to kill with regards to them. Also at the time Physica was a sitting duck just waiting to be shot at while he staring at his little music box.

Come to think of it the way that Physcia was shot out of no where reminds me of how Roy was shot in SDF. Unlike SDF where Milia was busy fighting Max at the time, its open to speculation on weather it was Gigil or not who fired the shot.

Before ever watching M7 I would have never thought that a girl spending a weekend in a log cabin with two Pink Pecker's would have had her heart broken!

Not even even when she has to leave all the fun behind for work on Monday?

[Master Dex]

At the same time Gigil is always annoyed by the Diamond Force VF-17 fighters getting in the way so maybe he ordered his goons to shoot to kill with regards to them. Also at the time Physica was a sitting duck just waiting to be shot at while he staring at his little music box.

Come to think of it the way that Physcia was shot out of no where reminds me of how Roy was shot in SDF. Unlike SDF where Milia was busy fighting Max at the time, its open to speculation on weather it was Gigil or not who fired the shot.

It was Gigil who shot Physica because he was using the prototype mini laser. You can see when Gamlin is chasing after Gigil later that Gigil is firing the same weapon but then runs out of energy for it. That is also why Gamlin went after Gigil in a rage, for it was he who shot Physica.

[Marzan]

Had a small break this afternoon and managed to watch episode 17 which is aptly titled "Pretty Devil"...

Nice episode this one. It's the first appearance of the "homeworld" of the aliens (which at this point still don't have a name) so they remain as mysterious as ever. We get to see however that they're much more powerful than has been hinted at before. Gigil out of his own volition wakes up Sivil, who is a formidable new opponent for the M7 convoy. What was interesting for me, was that Gepelnitch does not reprimand Gigil for having woken Sivil from her slumber. Instead he tell's him that "these colours that do not go with the pictures I paint. Find them". It's a somewhat cryptic message. I wonder if any of the japanese speakers out there can perhaps tell us if its been translated properly, or there is perhaps a nuance that was lost in the translation?? In any case Gigil seems just as baffled by Gepelnitch's message.

Battle 7 finally manages to contact City 7 and sends Diamond Force and a squadron to protect them. This force however is easily defeated by Sivil who's is a whole lot more powerful than any alien we've seen to this point. She destroys the Momoi and puts Lt. Kinryuu out of commission as well as injuring Gamlin in the process. She meets her match in Basara though, feeling positively unwell when confronted with the purity of his spiritia and has to escape. I remember that the first time I watched this episode I was a bit confused, since it was the first time I felt I was watching something in Macross that was entirely supernatural. Later though, I came to accept this and actually enjoyed Basara's and Sivil's back and forth

This encounter is televised, and propels Basara to fame. Of course he deals with reporters in the way you'd expect him to.

Chapter closes with the sad, sad scene of an injured Gamlin trying to give the music box to Physica's family and inform them of his death, only to find out that they've "moved on" to another man/father. It's a scene that somehow contrasts with the general lightheartedness of the show in my view and gives the series a bit more serious tone

In the music side, am I right in asuming that this is the first time that we hear Remember 16?

[Master Dex]

I watched the episode on Saturday, but I couldn't post my review until now for obvious reasons. So onto that.

Ah... Sivil. We begin a long arc that to this day makes my raise an eyebrow (so many things do that though). She sure is hungry for Spiritia. We get a lot in this episode. We just lost a member of Diamond Force and now the leader is hurt. Gamlin is left as the only protector for City 7 until Battle 7 can arrive to assist. Basara is ever more encourages to finish his latest song to help out the prisoner who turns out to be a human from Earth and once served in UN Spacey.

Also the tragic moment I mentioned last time. Gamlin makes it to Physica's wife to tell the news, only to find she has moved on. So much so that the kid thinks the new man is his father. It is likely this affair has been going on and the separation from the fleet made it easier on the wife, who probably planned to end things with Physica anyway. Makes one wonder if she even cares, or if she'll ever tell her son who his father really is. On another note though, Physica was most worried about his family being safe. As tragic as the result is, Gamlin is right as he posthumously comforts Physica's worries. His family is safe. This is all Gamlin can give to Physica, as it is both alleviating, and yet terribly saddening.

I have a science note for this one. Macross has always been good about sound in space. Sure they display sound in space for drama but they make it obvious they know there is none. Hence Basara needing to fire speaker pods at enemy ships so they can hear him, whereas he can use large speakers in an atmosphere. So one might wonder, how can Sivil hear his song? For that matter how can she survive in a vacuum at all?

I have theories. First it should be noted we don't know everything the Evil series is capable of doing. Perhaps the bodies are designed to be able to survive in a vacuum, Protodeviln or not. Aside from that though, I would hypothesize that the glowing sphere around Sivil was her projecting some type of shield in which she held a volume of atmosphere. Naturally this would run out after a while but let's ignore that for the moment and assume she did this. The energy sphere seems to also be able to allow here to travel superluminally after all. So I believe we shewas focused on Basara's cockpit section, she was close enough that the sound waves from his singing could traverse into her bubble, and so she could hear his song.

In the past I've heard many theories and jokes about what the effect of Basara's music on actual protodeviln (not ones just mind controlling a human that is) is. It seemed to cause pain to Sivil here. Maybe because the spiritia is so strong she couldn't handle it. In later episodes we will see it have a slightly different effect, to the point it would she she enjoyed it... perhaps a bit more than usual (people who have seen it will get what I am saying probably). However it had an effect. This will resonate with the story more and more as we go along.

[Gubaba]

Interesting theories about Sivil, Dex.

My feeling about the Protodeviln is that they are meant to be pretty much impervious to any "normal" attack. The Macross 7 fleet can (and does) throw everything possible at them, and yet it doesn't do a whole lot. As long as they get spirita, they can keep going on and on. Hence, little things like "cold" and "air" and "pressure" matter little to them.

I don't know how realistic or unrealistic that is, but it does what it's meant to: give an indication of just how strong these beings are.

[Master Dex]

Interesting theories about Sivil, Dex.

My feeling about the Protodeviln is that they are meant to be pretty much impervious to any "normal" attack. The Macross 7 fleet can (and does) throw everything possible at them, and yet it doesn't do a whole lot. As long as they get spirita, they can keep going on and on. Hence, little things like "cold" and "air" and "pressure" matter little to them.

I don't know how realistic or unrealistic that is, but it does what it's meant to: give an indication of just how strong these beings are.

Indeed so, after all the Protoculture designed the bodies they are using. Those guys were the definition of a Type 3 civilization, had the power of an entire galaxy. They could literally do anything. I would just assume since the Evil series are living beings that they do need to breathe. Though they could have been engineered without that need. More so the Protodeviln inhabiting the bodies may have changed them and what they can do.

[Gubaba]

Indeed so, after all the Protoculture designed the bodies they are using. Those guys were the definition of a Type 3 civilization, had the power of an entire galaxy. They could literally do anything. I would just assume since the Evil series are living beings that they do need to breathe. Though they could have been engineered without that need. More so the Protodeviln inhabiting the bodies may have changed them and what they can do.

Is it okay if I put my Macross 7 love on pause for just a few seconds to lament that the Protodeviln rarely come off as terrifying as they should have...?

I mean, really. Huge freaking monsters that can destroy entire planets and can withstand super-dimensional cannon blasts should, by all rights, be insanely awesome. Like King Gidrah from Krypton or something.

And they're just not.

Okay, I'm done complaining.

[Nexx Stalker]

Chapter closes with the sad, sad scene of an injured Gamlin trying to give the music box to Physica's family and inform them of his death, only to find out that they've "moved on" to another man/father. It's a scene that somehow contrasts with the general lightheartedness of the show in my view and gives the series a bit more serious tone

Funny. I alway thought Gamlin reaches Phisica's wife and child and "imagines" his late comrade (the guy who greets his family) going back to his loved ones. Only he knows it will never happen, so Gamlin doesn't find the courage to give them the carillon.

[mickyg]

That was exactly my impression as well. And this is the first time I've seen the episode. I must admit, I didn't look very closely at the man's face. But my thought was that this was all Gamlin thinking about what he was going to say and finding he just couldn't do it.

[Gubaba]

For the longest time, I thought Gamlin had just made a mistake and that WASN'T Physica's wife and child. It wasn't until Macross Chronicle covered Physica about a year and a half ago that I realized that his wife had just moved on...

Sad.

[BlueMax]

Indeed a poignant moment with that portion when Gamlin finds Physica's family only to find that they have moved on, and the kid is calling someone else dad!

Gamlin referred to it as "tragic". Why tragic? Because the family has moved on? Because Physica had no idea that things were going on behind him? Or even worse: physica had been fighting all this while for nothing and in fact, for smeone who does not care about him or meant nothing to them? Or worst, someone who has betrayed him totally?

In any case, it was one of the few moments in macross 7 when the viewer is made to experience a sense of regret for a character, in this case a minor character. Great moment.

[nexxstrait]

For the longest time, I thought Gamlin had just made a mistake and that WASN'T Physica's wife and child. It wasn't until Macross Chronicle covered Physica about a year and a half ago that I realized that his wife had just moved on...

Sad.

So this is official? Phisica was indeed so unaware of his surroundings? If the boy calls the "misterious man" dad, things must have gone that way for much more than the brief period of City 7 disappearance. Probably he and his wife were simply divorced.

[Gubaba]

So this is official?

Yep.

[David Hingtgen]

For a long time, I thought I was the only one who "got it" that that WAS his family--they were just with a different man. It seemed to me like every other review I've read over the years (even here) said something along the lines of "Gamlin just imagines it's Physica's family/is mistaken"---I was always like "no, it's simpler and much more tragic--it IS Physica's family---just not with him---and it's been that way for a while without his knowing--they're still the most important thing in the world to him, but they don't care about him at all any more". And Gamlin decides to keep quiet and do nothing. A far better/sadder ending than it simply all being some dream sequence or case of mistaken identity.

[Marzan]

It's interesting to see how different people saw the Gamlin/Physica's family scene in different ways. It would have never occurred to me that it was a dream.

it'll be worth looking at Gamlin in the next couple of episodes to see if this sad turn of events makes a lasting impression in him.

[Freiflug88]

In the music side, am I right in asuming that this is the first time that we hear Remember 16?

Its certainly an appropriate time to play it. Not only is it the end of the episode following Ep. 16, but its the background music for the scene that closes Physica's charater arch after his death in you guessed it Ep. 16.

I have a science note for this one. Macross has always been good about sound in space. Sure they display sound in space for drama but they make it obvious they know there is none. Hence Basara needing to fire speaker pods at enemy ships so they can hear him, whereas he can use large speakers in an atmosphere. So one might wonder, how can Sivil hear his song?

I don't want to spoil all the details to for the new viewers, but I will say that in a later episode Exodore mentions after a particular battle that the Protodelvin that Basera and Mylene's singing worked becaused it touched their hearts and not their ears. Also if you notice the first thing Sivil said when she was released was "Spirita" before she flew off to the Macross 7 Fleet light years away. She isn't hearing the literal sound waves, but she is being affected by the emotional and spiritual energies created by his singing.

Interesting theories about Sivil, Dex.

My feeling about the Protodeviln is that they are meant to be pretty much impervious to any "normal" attack. The Macross 7 fleet can (and does) throw everything possible at them, and yet it doesn't do a whole lot. As long as they get spirita, they can keep going on and on. Hence, little things like "cold" and "air" and "pressure" matter little to them.

I don't know how realistic or unrealistic that is, but it does what it's meant to: give an indication of just how strong these beings are.

I also have this feeling that the Protodeviln were an inspiration for the Angels of Evangelion which premiered a month after M7 ended.

Indeed so, after all the Protoculture designed the bodies they are using. Those guys were the definition of a Type 3 civilization, had the power of an entire galaxy. They could literally do anything. I would just assume since the Evil series are living beings that they do need to breathe. Though they could have been engineered without that need. More so the Protodeviln inhabiting the bodies may have changed them and what they can do.

All signs point to the Evil series as being the next series of bio-weapon designed to eliminate and replace the Zentradi space fleets. As such they were designed to live and fight in space from the start.

So this is official? Phisica was indeed so unaware of his surroundings? If the boy calls the "misterious man" dad, things must have gone that way for much more than the brief period of City 7 disappearance. Probably he and his wife were simply divorced.

Personally I get the feeling that the mysterious man could have very well have been the boy's real father, just look at how the boy has the same dark hair as the other man.

Its also very interesting how back in Ep. 14 Physica was telling Gamlin about how he believes a women would always be honest with the man they truly love or something. Then of course when his family photo is burnt up only his image remains perfectly intact, while his lying wife and possibly illegitimate child are completely burnt off in the hellish fire like the sinners they were.

Also am I the only one that feeling that perhaps his wife ditched him because she got annoyed with him calling her "beautiful" with every other line?

[Marzan]

Also am I the only one that feeling that perhaps his wife ditched him because she got annoyed with him calling her "beautiful" with every other line?

You're cruel Freiflug88!

But yeah, I've seen it happen with guys who are just too nice for their own good. In Physica's case, I'd like to think that his wife abandoning him has more to do with the fact that his job requires him to be absent from his family for long periods of time.

[sketchley]

You're cruel Freiflug88!

But yeah, I've seen it happen with guys who are just too nice for their own good. In Physica's case, I'd like to think that his wife abandoning him has more to do with the fact that his job requires him to be absent from his family for long periods of time.

I think it's more than that. I think the whole Physica AND Max/Miria thing is allegory for the saleryman lifestyle in Japan. In both cases, the obsessiveness with work takes the three away from family, and their family relationships suffer for it.

[BlueMax]

I think it's more than that. I think the whole Physica AND Max/Miria thing is allegory for the saleryman lifestyle in Japan. In both cases, the obsessiveness with work takes the three away from family, and their family relationships suffer for it.

I have exactly the same sentiments

[Freiflug88]

You're cruel Freiflug88!

But yeah, I've seen it happen with guys who are just too nice for their own good. In Physica's case, I'd like to think that his wife abandoning him has more to do with the fact that his job requires him to be absent from his family for long periods of time.

Calm down. I was making a seiyū joke. Physica may be gone, but later in the show his voice actor will return as that annoying furball Gavil, who will litterally be uttering "beautiful" in every other line.

[Marzan]

Calm down. I was making a seiyū joke. Physica may be gone, but later in the show his voice actor will return as that annoying furball Gavil, who will litterally be uttering "beautiful" in every other line.

Goes to show that I'm a bit slow on the uptake

But I still think Physica might have been the clingy type...

Going from Physica to Gavil must have incredibly fun for the seiyu. But I'll keen my Gavil comments until he actually shows up.

[mickyg]

I'll chime in on ep 17 here.

Pretty Devil - yes she is! At least I think she is... She's one wierd character at this point, that's for sure! This is another one of my "I've never seen this series before" comments so the perspective might be a bit different to everyone else's.

Firstly, what on earth is going on? Some wierd alien race shows up, with an army of human fighters in craft that no one's ever seen before. OK, we've pretty well gotten used to all that and accepted it for what it is at this point - a mystery. And just when we're getting used to the fact that these are apparently humans (not sure about Gepelnitch and Gigil but they look human enough), Gigil just takes off to some strange ice planet with some random giganto-pack on his back and wakes up some being in a cacoon. What the?

I'm super confused as to what's going on. But I'm also interested in what's going to happen and how this will all be fleshed out. One thing is for sure, this series is very methodical about development.

Anyway, back to Sivil, here's a list I've got after watching that episode:

• Why is she different to every other alien we've been introduced to
• What's with the green boobs? Or is that some sort of suit, since the rest of her is normal skin colour? Not that I'm complaining!
• Why is it she can fly and no one else can?
• What Gigil's backpack and why does it require effort to "shoot" it? It appears to be some way of transporting spiritia but it was somewhat vague in conveying that. Or I'm just dense and missed it.
• She's got some crazy ability and power, that's for sure.
• Why is she bothered by Basara's singing when no other alien up to this point has been?
• What about those ears?
• They've done a great job of making her look like a cat - not that that's got anything to do with anything.
• And is that pain or pleasure on her face when Basara sings?

Just a few observations after watching this ep. I'm still enjoying it and am getting more excited by every new episode.

Edited April 20, 2010 by mickyg

[Gubaba]

Does anyone know why Sivil's VA is merely a question mark? Did someone famous do her voice?

[Renato]

For a long time, I thought I was the only one who "got it" that that WAS his family--they were just with a different man. It seemed to me like every other review I've read over the years (even here) said something along the lines of "Gamlin just imagines it's Physica's family/is mistaken"---I was always like "no, it's simpler and much more tragic--it IS Physica's family---just not with him---and it's been that way for a while without his knowing--they're still the most important thing in the world to him, but they don't care about him at all any more". And Gamlin decides to keep quiet and do nothing. A far better/sadder ending than it simply all being some dream sequence or case of mistaken identity.

It's funny that this scene brings up so many interpretations, I didn't think it was really that ambiguous.

I think we need the Robotech narrator to come in here and explain the situation. "But as Gamlin looked on at the wife of his fallen comrade canoodling with some hunky neighbour, he realized that his friend would have wanted his family to be blissfully unaware of his passing, and thus opted out of making a cockblocking ass of himself."

You know, for kids.

(The alternative being, "Yes, Gamlin, only a dream".)

[Renato]

Does anyone know why Sivil's VA is merely a question mark? Did someone famous do her voice?

I always found that odd. I remember reading somewhere that it was the same girl who did the Flower Girl, though I don't know how accurate that is.

[Gubaba]

I always found that odd. I remember reading somewhere that it was the same girl who did the Flower Girl, though I don't know how accurate that is.

I can definitely hear the similarity...but the electronic modification placed on Sivil's voice makes it hard to tell. And the Flower Girl is pretty breathy, whereas Sivil isn't...

Huh. Still a mystery, I guess.

[RedWolf]

Why is she bothered by Basara's singing when no other alien up to this point has been?

Because they actually Human not alien to begin with?

[mickyg]

OK, that makes sense. Except that I was thinking Gigil wasn't human. If that's the case (and I don't know because I haven't watched the whole series yet) why isn't Gigil affected? Perhaps I'm jumping ahead too far at this point and maybe that's obvious by the time I finish the series.