The MW rewatches M7 together Thread

[Master Dex]

Quite... while I won't belabor the issue of Basara bearing most or all of the hallmarks of a Canon Sue, specifically those of a "God Mode Sue", it's pretty much beyond dispute that had Max and Milia rounded up all the spirita vampires in Gepernich's advance reconnaissance party early on and flushed the lot of them out the nearest airlock they would likely have never discovered the spirita regeneration phenomenon. Without that discovery, we wouldn't have had the spirita farm plan that drove most of the plot later on.

Neither Max or Milia would be the type to do that though. They'd apprehend and hold the vampires in a secure place, but they wouldn't coldly flush them. Like said before, this isn't Battlestar Galactica. They aren't the last surviving remnant of humanity, and therefore aren't that desperate. Even if the Protodeviln didn't learn about the spirita regeneration ability and didn't set up the farm project, they'd still attack the fleet to drain spirita like normal. So just by events playing out the fleet may have learned of Fire Bomber's music working to 'revive' people who had been drained.

In other words, you are right that had they taken more initiative to deal with the Vamps then they might have had less troubles, but not necessarily derail the plot as it was, it would have been altered quite a bit, but it still could have played out in some way.

[Seto Kaiba]

Neither Max or Milia would be the type to do that though. They'd apprehend and hold the vampires in a secure place, but they wouldn't coldly flush them.

I know... I know... I'm just using the "flushing them" because I never liked them as a plot device, and thus it's somewhat therapeutic for me to picture them being chucked unceremoniously out the nearest airlock. Max and Milia would probably have had them hospitalized like they did with the captured enemy pilot.

On the whole, I probably would've been a lot happier with the plot of ep12-13 if it'd been Varauta soldiers breaking into the ship and hijacking the fold system by force rather than having the somewhat silly (IMO) spirita vampires doing most of the legwork.

So just by events playing out the fleet may have learned of Fire Bomber's music working to 'revive' people who had been drained.

Unlikely, the whole vampire business didn't really tie into the discovery of spirita regeneration by the U.N. Spacy... that was caused by letting their hospital patient listen to the radio and theorizing based on how Sivil retreated after meeting Basara. Deleting the spirita vampires from the equation probably wouldn't have had any effect on that part of the story at all.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Bri]

I seriously doubt the Military and Police on Macross 7 have the Man power to search every square mile of the city.

A Valkyrie would be of little use in Police raids with the exception of the Rescue of the samples which was a diversion to cover the theft of the City.

The City 7 has a Foot print like New York City and the NYPD has a Force of like 30.000 Police Officers and they can't eliminate Crime completely the Vampires were only taking like a Few dozen a day/week.

Even if they searched the City systematically the Vampires had enough intelligence to infiltrate the Most secured part of the City (Fold Core) they most likely would have heard of it Hours before the Police/Military got with in a Block.

I would agree with Miles here. The external attacks from Gigile kept the military busy while the vampires could do their scouting, monitoring and research. Given that M7 has no cellular network, civilians informing authorities of vampire movements would have been a lot more difficult.

I have to agree that the vampires looked a tad lame in their trenchcoats with masks, but they are a key part in the Protodevlin strategy. Not to mention they are used for events in Fire Bomber daily lives.

[VF5SS]

Quite... while I won't belabor the issue of Basara bearing most or all of the hallmarks of a Canon Sue, specifically those of a "God Mode Sue", it's pretty much beyond dispute that had Max and Milia rounded up all the spirita vampires in Gepernich's advance reconnaissance party early on and flushed the lot of them out the nearest airlock they would likely have never discovered the spirita regeneration phenomenon. Without that discovery, we wouldn't have had the spirita farm plan that drove most of the plot later on.

lol internet sci-fi tough guy

you gonna start quoting TV tropes too?

[RedWolf]

Given that M7 has no cellular network, civilians informing authorities of vampire movements would have been a lot more difficult.

Michael has a cellphone. That's how he informs his boss about Mylene.

[vsim]

Maybe I missed this, but I'm pretty sure the "vampires" weren't confined to just City 7. They showed up on the other "islands" correct?

Maybe the police saw them and thought they were just sick and were wearing masks to keep others from getting sick

[Marzan]

Another week has passed and now maybe its time for episode 14 anyone?

[Master Dex]

Another week has passed and now maybe its time for episode 14 anyone?

I would say so yes, I'll get around to looking at that later tonight hopefully.

[Master Dex]

And so I have watched episode 14. Fun episode. City 7 still separated from the fleet, and everyone basically trying to get along like normal despite.

Gamlin really needs to relax some more, lol. He only doesn't like Fire Bomber music because he has a problem with Basara and is conflicted about Mylene.

Also Fire Bomber seems to hit all demographics for their concerts, I have to say though, Basara is a great sport about it.

More amazing Valk action from Milia again. Too bad we have to wait so long to see Max back in the cockpit again.

I don't really have much to say for this episode there is pretty much not much to say but what you see with this one. Can't even think about anything to do for the science bit this week. I guess it is for next week.

[Gubaba]

Also Fire Bomber seems to hit all demographics for their concerts, I have to say though, Basara is a great sport about it.

"If I told them once, I told them a thousand times: put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last."

[Marzan]

And so I have watched episode 14. Fun episode. City 7 still separated from the fleet, and everyone basically trying to get along like normal despite.

Gamlin really needs to relax some more, lol. He only doesn't like Fire Bomber music because he has a problem with Basara and is conflicted about Mylene.

Also Fire Bomber seems to hit all demographics for their concerts, I have to say though, Basara is a great sport about it.

More amazing Valk action from Milia again. Too bad we have to wait so long to see Max back in the cockpit again.

I don't really have much to say for this episode there is pretty much not much to say but what you see with this one. Can't even think about anything to do for the science bit this week. I guess it is for next week.

Fun chapter but, Yeah, kind of a strange one too Everyone is trying to act normally despite the fact that City 7 is cut off from the rest of the fleet and floating around God knows where.

This is probably the first chapter were we get to hear about Dr. Chiba's theories on music and its effects. We also get to witness that he's the biggest Minmay otaku in the galaxy.

Milia is still one tough dame. Gets shot in the leg and brushes it off like nothing. Do all Zentran have that high pain threshold or is it just years of military discipline?

Its nice to see that the Polaroid camera is alive and well on City 7.

[SIGHUP]

And so I have watched episode 14. Fun episode. City 7 still separated from the fleet, and everyone basically trying to get along like normal despite.

Gamlin really needs to relax some more, lol. He only doesn't like Fire Bomber music because he has a problem with Basara and is conflicted about Mylene.

Also Fire Bomber seems to hit all demographics for their concerts, I have to say though, Basara is a great sport about it.

More amazing Valk action from Milia again. Too bad we have to wait so long to see Max back in the cockpit again.

I don't really have much to say for this episode there is pretty much not much to say but what you see with this one. Can't even think about anything to do for the science bit this week. I guess it is for next week.

But this is why Gamlin has gray hair at such a young age! Way too uptight! I prefer him over Basara. I've always wanted to hit him over the head with his guitar. I wonder if the guitar controls work similar to the Rockband controllers, lol!

[Freiflug88]

Milia is still one tough dame. Gets shot in the leg and brushes it off like nothing. Do all Zentran have that high pain threshold or is it just years of military discipline?

Unfortunately that is not how it happened at all poor girl grits her teeth and drops to her knees shaking.

Though I will say your comment reminds of a verrry familiar scene involving another pretty green haired dame from another show...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egd9P6grQQA#t=12m49s

I also have to add that I went to Momocon this last weekend. This years theme for this little known con was music and appropriately enough they played a few episodes of Macross 7 in the Anime Viewing room thanks to my input of course . I am upset they showed it on Sunday afternoon instead of following my recommendation to play it on Saturday Night though .

[Freiflug88]

Its nice to see that the Polaroid camera is alive and well on City 7.

Yes, but I don't know what to say about seeing Hitler alive and well on City 7 as well

[Hyper Shinchan]

The "poor girl" is at least around her 50s and she had still enough gut to scream back to Basara that reminded her of her age

I've always enjoyed Miria's lesson to Basara about GERWALK even though he doesn't seem to learn when he has to switch between the various mode for the entire series, even Varuda's army, in this episode, seems to be better than him yet he's always considered a skilled pilot (later on by Gamlin too, but even Max mentioned that at the beginning but we never get an explanation about how he learned to pilot a Valkyrie, maybe Ray is his teacher?

One thing (slightly unrelated) that I must say is that the entire event of City 7 separated from Battle 7 was a little too long but maybe it's just me.

[Marzan]

Though I will say your comment reminds of a verrry familiar scene involving another pretty green haired dame from another show...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egd9P6grQQA#t=12m49s

gh .

My eyes! My hearing! Freiflug what have you done?

[Marzan]

Yes, but I don't know what to say about seeing Hitler alive and well on City 7 as well

Not only that but he seems to be also running a school? Hardly the most suitable of professions for the man...

[tuipo]

Yes, but I don't know what to say about seeing Hitler alive and well on City 7 as well

... Dr. Mengele, good job

Adolf

[RedWolf]

The "poor girl" is at least around her 50s and she had still enough gut to scream back to Basara that reminded her of her age

I've always enjoyed Miria's lesson to Basara about GERWALK even though he doesn't seem to learn when he has to switch between the various mode for the entire series, even Varuda's army, in this episode, seems to be better than him yet he's always considered a skilled pilot (later on by Gamlin too, but even Max mentioned that at the beginning but we never get an explanation about how he learned to pilot a Valkyrie, maybe Ray is his teacher?

One thing (slightly unrelated) that I must say is that the entire event of City 7 separated from Battle 7 was a little too long but maybe it's just me.

If Ray was his teacher he would've taught Basra Gerwalk mode. Many consider Max a genius pilot but with Basara based on his consentration ability more like someone with a Savant Syndrome.

Seriously the guy can fly a Valkyrie with only his elbows.

[Marzan]

If Ray was his teacher he would've taught Basra Gerwalk mode. Many consider Max a genius pilot but with Basara based on his consentration ability more like someone with a Savant Syndrome.

Seriously the guy can fly a Valkyrie with only his elbows.

I suppose that no matter how much natural ability, he must at least have gotten the basics from Ray and went on from there.

Now imagine if chief instructor Miria would have had a hand in his training...

[Castel]

So, the legends are true, there is really people who can bear to watch this anime more than once.

You must be in love with pain.

[Gubaba]

So, the legends are true, there is really people who can bear to watch this anime more than once.

You must be in love with pain.

UNSUCCESSFUL TROLL IS UNSUCCESSFUL.

[David Hingtgen]

We already have Agent ONE on this board. He provides all the M7 bashing we need.

[Marzan]

Love with pain?

Naah, quite the contrary.

I feel BOMBA!

[Master Dex]

Just watched episode 15. Will post with review stuff later as it is late for me right now and I am very tired. Fun episode though, to say the least.

[Master Dex]

Ok, I dropped the ball on that one, I didn't post again with a more detailed review.

As for that though, I find the idea of staging a fair to find usable fighter pilots for the short term to be deliciously circuitous. I would have doubted it working all that well. Guess though in the end of the day valk piloting is in the blood. I loved when that aid mentioned Mylene must have gotten her skill from her father right in front of Millia's face.

Mylene doesn't seem bothered by shooting down enemy fighters. She either isn't mature enough to think of the ramifications of that or she really has a handle on the morality issues of battle. Hard to say, it is clear what Basara thinks. I don't disagree with him, but it is true that he wasn't succeeding at the time with his song (much to his chagrin I'm sure).

Again nothing overtly science worthy in this episode. I keep on waiting for another one, but there just wasn't a lot there to critique or mention.

Well it is Friday again, so I'm going to watch ep. 16. Whether I actually get to posting the review for that in this week is up in the air, lol.

[Master Dex]

And I just watched 16. I'll do my bit now.

I must say this is one of my favorite episodes of the show. Mostly for the Battle 7 side of the story, even if the other side is important.

Even though it was obvious that Physica was going to die (minor character suddenly gets a lot of back story, it was inevitable) I do find it saddening, and even then very dramatic. Obviousness aside, if you knew the guy who had been separated from his wife and child then with no idea if they were ok, and you were so close to seeing them again. Then one seemingly random shot, just one shot, and everything is gone. A minor character maybe, but still a story in itself. It is even more depressing given what we learn next episode but I will save that for then.

Part of the reason I like this episode is that Max gets back into the game. No he isn't piloting a fighter but we are seeing his amazing battle skills in action. Such things like recognizing the opening volley as a scare tactic. Also when aiming the cannon, aiming just offset because that is where the enemy would move to avoid the shot. Brilliant. Although given almost any direction the enemy ships could have moved I wonder how he knew which way there were going to go.

Also, first time seeing the Battle 7 transformation and Macross cannon firing. Won't be the last though, no it certainly won't... That is one thing I will give Frontier credit for, they kept that macguffin on a leash, that had a Macross class ship with a cannon, and used it only once. It made more sense really, that cannon and the transformation must be very energy consuming.

Some may wonder, when will I tackle the science of the Macross cannon? Well I won't. I don't know exactly what it is doing or what it is firing, just some large beam. Can't get much out of that.

I'll tackle the age old problem of acceleration though. Max notes to continue having the fleet move forward at 75% thrust. This command is ambiguous as it could mean just keep moving forward at a slower velocity. Taking it literal though, that means the engines would be firing constantly. So the fleet would actually be accelerating faster, just not as much as they could. In space there is no air resistance, or gravity in this case (a fallacy though as there is always gravity, so really there is a lack of much gravity) so you have your initial thrust to accelerate to a certain velocity and then you can shut the engines off and continue to move at that velocity. Reaction control thrusters can adjust your movement until you need to move in a new vector.

Most shows ignore this though, so it is not something to make a big deal about. In reality moving in space is difficult and it is easier to lose control than flying in an atmosphere. Although the ships on this show no doubt use a lot of computer control to help with flying.

I always have to wonder how many reaction thrusts it takes to offset the recoil of that gun though, or more truthfully the moment imparted by it. Since the cannon's fire wasn't working through Battle 7's center of mass, without proper reaction control the recoil could send the robot-ship into a spin (one of the reasons a battleship robot isn't very feasible in truth, awesomeness aside). It is certainly possible to work it out, just difficult. I also sometimes wonder about the strength of the arms, if they used servos to act like muscles or something to keep the arms from failing due to the massive recoil the cannon must give. The recoil is visible in the scene even. That cannon is a monster, definitely makes the UN Spacey a force to be reckoned with, even if they got all that technology second hand.

Looks like we are getting into the Sivil chapter next week. That will open up a lot of interesting things to talk about. Until next time, BOMBAA!!

[RedWolf]

I think Macross Chronicle mentions the Battle Class are really five ships or so slapped together with one gunship.

In Frontier we saw their gunship fire with just a minor transformation. I was like "They can do that?".

Of course I know there are bound to be differences in Gunship specs. Battle 13 has that shotgun effect with its gunship. Where as Battle 7 is one straight beam.

[Gubaba]

I think Macross Chronicle mentions the Battle Class are really five ships or so slapped together with one gunship.

I think you're thinking of the Macross Quarter.

[Marzan]

Ok, I dropped the ball on that one, I didn't post again with a more detailed review.

As for that though, I find the idea of staging a fair to find usable fighter pilots for the short term to be deliciously circuitous. I would have doubted it working all that well. Guess though in the end of the day valk piloting is in the blood. I loved when that aid mentioned Mylene must have gotten her skill from her father right in front of Millia's face.

Mylene doesn't seem bothered by shooting down enemy fighters. She either isn't mature enough to think of the ramifications of that or she really has a handle on the morality issues of battle. Hard to say, it is clear what Basara thinks. I don't disagree with him, but it is true that he wasn't succeeding at the time with his song (much to his chagrin I'm sure).

Again nothing overtly science worthy in this episode. I keep on waiting for another one, but there just wasn't a lot there to critique or mention.

Well it is Friday again, so I'm going to watch ep. 16. Whether I actually get to posting the review for that in this week is up in the air, lol.

Master Dex has posted 2 in a row so it's catching up time.

On episode 15 I'd just like to mention that it's pretty cool to see all these different kinds of mecha assembled at the fair. After seeing Miria's old red Valk in the last episode, it's a delight to see a fully functioning (and armed) Destroid. It of course begs the question of where people were keeping all this stuff. You can't exactly fit a Destroid in a container, can you? I suppose former servicemen were allowed certain storage privileges.

Agree with Dex on the bit were Miria's aide argues that Mylene's flying skills must come from "the great Captain Maximilian Jenus"!

While M7 never falls to the level of a "harem anime", one has to point out the fact that Basara does have a lot of female admirers. One can only wonder if when it came out, there were also "shipping wars"?

Finally, there are at least 2 Macross II songs in this episode playing in the background at different intervals. The first time I watched M7, I totally missed how much music they use from previous Macross' to fill in when Fire Bomber is not playing.

[Marzan]

And I just watched 16. I'll do my bit now.

I must say this is one of my favorite episodes of the show. Mostly for the Battle 7 side of the story, even if the other side is important.

[/i]

Love chapter 16 too. The first transformation of a Macross in the series mixed with the band playing for the prisoner is just really well made. I like how they cut from

Physica's death

to Fire Bomber's music bringing the prisoner back to conciousness. I just think that it's a chapter that's really well written. And the whole Physica episode just seems to give the series a tad more earnestness than it had before.

If any of you is watching the older CA version, you'll get the encore bit with Ray and Akiko's back story. It's pretty poignant stuff as well.

[Gubaba]

Finally, there are at least 2 Macross II songs in this episode playing in the background at different intervals. The first time I watched M7, I totally missed how much music they use from previous Macross' to fill in when Fire Bomber is not playing.

One of the things I think is... (strange? funny? I'm not sure how to put it) is Macross 7's lack of a score. Anything apart from Fire Bomber songs and a handful of other songs written for the show is taken from II and Plus, but never from SDFM or DYRL (except of the Macross 7 Docking Festival album...that uses a fair amount of SDFM music).

I'm sure there's some kind of bizarre contractual deal behind all of this...

[miles316]

I was thinking of a reason why the UN spacy kept the transformation for the New Macross class ships was that the Earth scientist could never build a Macross Canon from scratch properly, and their imitations were unstable/Hazardous and it had to be kept away from the inhabited sections of the ship.

Though they never had a explanation in M7 and Battle Frontier could fire its cannon while the ship was not transformed and attached to the main island.

Why would a energy weapon have a recoil most High energy Particle don't have any appreciable mass like a Gun does.

[Seto Kaiba]

Finally, there are at least 2 Macross II songs in this episode playing in the background at different intervals. The first time I watched M7, I totally missed how much music they use from previous Macross' to fill in when Fire Bomber is not playing.

Rather more than that, actually... virtually all of the background music on the radio in City-7 is all taken from the second volume of the Macross II OST. Just about anytime anyone turns on a radio and it isn't Fire Bomber, it's something from Macross II. One day, I'll have to watch my way through the series and identify when and what songs they're using in each episode. Still gotta watch the ep myself for this, so I'll probably catch up when we do the next ep.

I was thinking of a reason why the UN spacy kept the transformation for the New Macross class ships was that the Earth scientist could never build a Macross Canon from scratch properly

Okay... in the interest of keeping this short and sweet, this theory can be summed up succinctly in four words: "Did not do research". It's pretty much a given that the U.N. Spacy DOES know how to construct them properly, since they're the most ubiquitous beam weapons in the entire Macross universe. Even the Macross itself had eight scaled-down versions of its main gun mounted as anti-starship turrets, and the ARMDs each had five. By 2040 they could scale them down far enough to start mounting them on fighters... the YF-19 had a pair, and the VF-22S had three, two in the forearms and one in the head. If there is a reason for it beyond "rule of cool", that's DEFINITELY not it.

Odds are it was simply a modularity thing... in the event the macross cannon was damaged or destroyed, repairing it or replacing it outright wouldn't involve a major overhaul on the rest of the ship too.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Freiflug88]

Some may wonder, when will I tackle the science of the Macross cannon? Well I won't. I don't know exactly what it is doing or what it is firing, just some large beam. Can't get much out of that.

I believe that without a doubt its a particle cannon.

1. The original and iconic Yamato Wave motion gun which the Macross creators were inspired by was a Particle cannon that relied on accelerated tachyon particles.

2. Macross Chronicles words the orignal Macross cannon as

"Overtechnology Macross bow-firing super-dimension-energy cannon with beam polarizing converging system. "

Which sounds like just another way of destribing a particle beam cannon with Macross terminology such as Super Dimensional energy.

A particle beam is an accelerated stream of charged particles or neutrons (often moving at very near the speed of light) which may be directed by magnets and focused by electrostatic lenses, although they may also be self-focusing (see Pinch).

3. Macross Chronicles description of the VF-27's beam cannon aka the mini-Macross cannon:

Beam gunpod is refit to MDE particle beam specifications.

In Frontier we saw their gunship fire with just a minor transformation. I was like "They can do that?".

Of course I know there are bound to be differences in Gunship specs. Battle 13 has that shotgun effect with its gunship. Where as Battle 7 is one straight beam.

Going by how the Battle Frontier cannon split open to reveal what seems to be its Particle Cannon accelerator rather then firing through the Four nozzles I would say that it seems the Macross Cannon is able to be fired in several ways depending on the situation. Considering that the Macross particle beam was fired for the first time in a curved trajectory in order to hit the two Zentradi scout ships its seems likely that the beam output if very modifiable with the right know how.

I was thinking of a reason why the UN spacy kept the transformation for the New Macross class ships was that the Earth scientist could never build a Macross Canon from scratch properly, and their imitations were unstable/Hazardous and it had to be kept away from the inhabited sections of the ship.

Though they never had a explanation in M7 and Battle Frontier could fire its cannon while the ship was not transformed and attached to the main island.

Why would a energy weapon have a recoil most High energy Particle don't have any appreciable mass like a Gun does.

Personally I always thought it was so that they can quickly and precisely aim the cannon with arm movements in robot mode rather then pivoting the whole ship just to aim a bow mounted cannon.

In Frontier's case for instance the Vajra swarm was right in front of them and they were able to "sweep" the Macross beam from left to right in order to vaporize the whole swarm. What's more the Frontier was getting ready to fold right after eradicating the Vajra swarming. Why waste all that time and energy detaching, transforming, firing, transforming again, and then retaching to the Island your about to fold with when you can just fire the cannon as is.

On the contray due to the effects of relativity particles or anything with mass will actually increase in mass the as they approach the speed of light. Also while a single high energy particle certainly doesn't have anywhere near the mass of a lead bullet. The macross cannon is firing countless high energy particles to form those huge destructive beams. The masses of all those countless particles add up to tremendous proportions. Just as the mass of all those bullets spewed out by Gatling guns equal much more recoil then a single shot rifle or gun of identical caliber.