The MW rewatches M7 together Thread

[VFTF1]

Note that those who can not learn to love "Planet Dance," will never be Macross 7 fans, again, don't know why, it just works that way.

I don't like Planet Dance...

Hope this doesn't get me kicked out of the M7 fanclub

I'm just going to add some general impressions - sorry for the lack of penetrating in depth reviews, but I'm just so busy on Fridays and weekends lately. It was much easier to watch anime when my girlfriend was mad at me and not seeing me...now it's just "let's do this/let's go here/let's go there/" and on and on... Next Friday we're off to the seaside for the weekend...

But I am "caught up" through episode 10, so the "problem" will really start with episode 11 ...I will have to actuall watch that!

Anyways...episode 9...

The one thing I can add is that Bassara looks really creepy as he "enthusiastically" plays his guitar while Mylene sings in the arb and brings Alice Holiday's Spiritia back up. It's just the animation is so ... well... wierd... Basara's got this crazy grin on his face and he's not so much nodding or head banging as his animation cel is being visibly moved...I dunno how else to put it - but that scene always was kind of ruined for me by that strange animation....

And yes - good point about how Alice Holiday was burned by the Honey-marketing-method ... but there's one twist to this (and it's just another of those subtle twists that are hard to spot in M7):

Namely - look how much Mylene admires Alice Holiday? Admires her singing and says that it's what made her want to be a singer too. Now, even if Alice's stuff was marketing pulp - the thing to remember about marketing pulp is that the ONLY way that something can be made marketable is to...

...wait for it....

Appeal to people's tastes!

That is to say - the marketing method of Honey as opposed to the pure artistic heart of Bassara is not a totally black and white picture - it's not that the former is evil and bad and poo poo while the latter is great and perfect.

In fact, the former often has the effect of bringing people to music who otherwise wouldn't have given it a second thought - and Bassara can benefit from a singer like Mylene in the group because she was brought to music by the pop songs of Alice Holiday.

The thing to remember is not establishing silly conflicts between ideas like "true art" vs. "marketing pulp" - but rather the question of what is proper and when.

To someone with no musical experience, pop fluff might be a good thing because it touches something in them and brings them around to music. As they explore the art deeper - that's when Basara's way becomes important.

But EVEN Basara realizes - as he himself said in the early episodes - that he needs to find a sound that will touch other people.

In a sense, his reaction to Honey (storming out when told that the music needs to be fashionable) demonstrates that Basara is his own worse enemy. Sure, it's true that music should be from the heart and not fashionable - but if you want your music to touch other people's hearts, you need to kind of know how to reach them.

That's what Mylene is trying to teach Basara - the two just aren't good at comunicating.

In any event...yesterday my girlfriend took me to see another Polish movie - and it was kind of like Macross 7 because it was about a high school Punk Rock band that fought communism with music in 1981 - and since it was Friday and I was SUPPOSED to be watching Macross 7, I figured this movie was a good enough alternative.

Plus it was set in 1981 and had a totally cute loli chick and a pretty hot beach sex scene - so Macross 7 "on the beach scene" got owned on that count too !

But anyways... the Alice Holiday episde is - for me - one of the less interesting for one reason:

Alice Holiday.

She's not cute, she's not interesting. She's like the sterylized Sheryl. Blonde hair and big boobs but no spirit....

Then again - I guess that's kind of the point... she reminds me of Myung insofar as I also found Myung BORING - due to her cynicism and "oh I've been in show business long enough to know it's all fake" attitude...

Finally -Master Dex:

As interesting as a scientifici essay on the rain in M7 would be -

I would prefer it if you gave some scientific explanations for spiritia - I mean - the vampires are obviously MEASURING it. I have noted in previous threads on M7 before that this is highly dubious. How do you measure someone's level of emotions and "spirit?" What scale do you use? Later we're going to have "chiba units" for "song energy" ...

But there's never really been a thorough scientific inquiry into this.

I was watching Dr. House this weekend with my girl, and in one episode they had this dude who was on death row but was taken to the hospital and Dr. House discovered that he had pragleomorphuszeocrenytratiphulusplomogosis.... or something like that ... which was basically explained to be this illness whereby his brain spewed out excess hormones into his blood randomly which sent him into rages.

And so then the theory was ventured that these "white flash" rages caused by this illness made him kill - since all four of his killings (three of which were commited in jail) had the same circumstances... (although House also said there are people with this illness who don't kill, but function normally).

Anyways...

The point is - it got me to thinking that I guess doctors have ways of measuring what goes on in our "hearts" and "heads" - and ...neuroscience (is that what the science of the brain is called?) is full of theories about which Node in our brain is responsible for creative thought and anger and other emotions...

So I'm GUESSING the Protodevilin are using some kind of advanced form of neuroscience to measure spiritia?

any help on this avenue would be grand since I think that if one doesn't make a serious venture to understand the science of spiritia (and later sound energy), then you're kind of allowing the story of M7 to suffer for it because the concepts - without some basic scientific backing - are...well...more far fetched than anything ELSE in Macross IMO

Pete

[Keith]

I think "The Galaxy Is Calling Me" explains it best. Every living thing in the universe produces a form of Wave Motion energy, that radiates outwadrs & touches every other thing. Spiritia is another name for this energy, which is directly affected by ones mental state. Consider it somethin akin to a combination of the neural impulses in the brain, and the intangible concept of a soul. The Protodevelin having come from another dimension where all life is pure energy, were originally an existence comprised soley of soul (pun intended). Chiba's invention being the first in human history to quantify the soul into an actual type of energy. The Proltodevelin themselves having much more sophisticated instruments that can distinguish between various subtypes within that measure.

Also, don't feel bad, you're still new to 7, you'll hit your Planet Dance second wind soon enough.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Keith

[Marzan]

I think "The Galaxy Is Calling Me" explains it best. Every living thing in the universe produces a form of Wave Motion energy, that radiates outwadrs & touches every other thing. Spiritia is another name for this energy, which is directly affected by ones mental state. Consider it somethin akin to a combination of the neural impulses in the brain, and the intangible concept of a soul. The Protodevelin having come from another dimension where all life is pure energy, were originally an existence comprised soley of soul (pun intended). Chiba's invention being the first in human history to quantify the soul into an actual type of energy. The Proltodevelin themselves having much more sophisticated instruments that can distinguish between various subtypes within that measure.

I watched The Galaxy is Calling Me so long ago that I can't remember this explanation but it's actually pretty solid. Covers all the angles and can explain why Basara just pumps out more Chiba units that anyone else.

Would have been cool to measure Ranks & Sheryl's Chiba sound units in M Frontier but I guess that concept was soon forgotten!

[VFTF1]

Would have been cool to measure Ranks & Sheryl's Chiba sound units in M Frontier but I guess that concept was soon forgotten!

Not forgotten. Sound Boosters were used in episode 7 and the whole Operation Call Up Monster Girl was also executed with Sound Boosters focusing and enhansing sound energy.

The real question is the extent to which sound energy works on a purely biological level by stimulating brain chemistry vs. the extent to which it the will of the listener is a factor - and how sound energy changes his will/heart.

All open questions.

Pete

[Master Dex]

Not forgotten. Sound Boosters were used in episode 7 and the whole Operation Call Up Monster Girl was also executed with Sound Boosters focusing and enhansing sound energy.

The real question is the extent to which sound energy works on a purely biological level by stimulating brain chemistry vs. the extent to which it the will of the listener is a factor - and how sound energy changes his will/heart.

All open questions.

Pete

I wasn't going to talk about sound energy until they actually brought it up in the show, and that is a bit of a ways off. I do have quite a bit to say though.

Also in Frontier those were just 'fold boosters' (they has to add fold as a prefix to everything in that show, I didn't like that). They basically applified the small fold waves that Ranka was apparently creating when she sang. The Vajra were in space, they couldn't hear her, they were sensing the fold vibrations she made. The boosters just amplified those vibrations.

It could be theorized that the whole fold waves Ranka emitted was some new form of sound energy that permeated super dimensional space, but that is a bit of a stretch with no evidence to back it up. We know she generated them because she got the V type infection whilst in the womb.

I still haven't watched episode 9, sorry. I'll talk about some spiritia stuff next post though, there is a bit I can say on that as well.

[Master Dex]

Ok, I just watched it. I'm not going to review every aspect, especially the Alice Holiday stuff because people did that already and all.

I was thinking a lot about Pete's musing as questions about spiritia. I'm not going to talk about sound energy since we aren't there yet so I'll cover spiritia based only on the observed stuff so far.

Now I am not a neurologist so can only say so much. It is a proven fact that music can change someone's mood. Here it seems to me that when the vamps were stealing Alice's spiritia she was getting more and more depressed to the point she didn't even feel like standing. Had that been pushed further I imagine a person would let themselves stop breathing and just die. Spiritia isn't a life force per say as we can live without it but without it we might not care to live.

In this aspect spiritia kind of becomes a term with no clear definition. Now to go back on the brain chemistry bit, when certain songs are heard (there are also many other stimuli for this as well), our brain can emit various chemicals like horomones that can change how we feel, making us feel better or worse (music making you feel worse is a rarity and depends on your mood and tastes). It seems to me when spiritia is drained, the Protodeviln are robbing our brains of the ability to secrete these chemicals that can makes us feel better or even to feel anything. This is why the worst of those drained end up in catatonic states. They aren't dead, they have just lost the will to continue living. It isn't Fire Bomber's music necessarily that is helping them, but the reason their music works is because Basara strives to sing from his heart and not just to what is popular. That makes the difference here, even if it might not sell well initially.

So in a sense what the protodeviln are feeding off isn't our life, but our brain chemistry, emotions, perhaps the nature of the soul. Of course we cannot yet quantify what exactly the soul is (like I said until we get to the subject of sound energy later I'm not going to cover that). I think that is why it is so hard to get a clear idea of just what spiritia is. I think to the protodeviln, it is just something they know they need and they can see we have it. They are from another universe where physics are different and they are energy (I know the show says another dimension but if you know the difference between universes and dimensions what I say really does make more sense). Here they are physical, and they don't know how to keep themselves alive or better yet, how keep their bodies working. So they noticed the difference others had and stole the difference.

The fact that they have the ability to measure spiritia is more of a necessity than anything. They developed technology to do what they needed. What they are measuring is probably about the chemicals in the brain are affecting the body and all that.

Now, I still want to mention the rain bit. They do have plants on board the ship, so they need rain. Obviously they have a reservoir of water, perhaps split into base elements and compressed as gas (water as a liquid is an incompressible fluid, splitting into gas to compress would make transportation easier). This water is also their drinking water, and every other use of water (remember my commentary on the resort ship's water supply?). The rain is mostly to keep up the plant life, and to resemble realistic Earth conditions. Any of the rain water not absorbed by plant life is probably drained through, cleaned, filtered, and reused for other water needs. Also I should note, that means even the water is finite. While you could stop places to find more water, more than likely they are recycling a lot of stuff. Some people balk at the idea of astronauts on the International Space Station recycling their urine and filtering the water out, but it does result in perfectly clean water. Whether you want to think of it or not, this is most likely happening. Though I imagine most people on the colony don't even realize it.

[VFTF1]

I have nothing against recycling urine to make water.

Pete

will comment more extensively on the rest of the fascinating disquisition later

[Freiflug88]

I don't like Planet Dance...

Hope this doesn't get me kicked out of the M7 fanclub

What!

Well we can't kick you out just yet... Veffidas needs another skull to practice drumming on. So get to the back of the M7 fanbus with Captain Donavan!

Alice Holiday.

She's not cute, she's not interesting. She's like the sterylized Sheryl. Blonde hair and big boobs but no spirit....

I wouldn't exactly label Alice a steryl version of Sheryl. Sheryl may dress and shake her booty like a stripper, but everything about Alice Holiday from her name to her appearance screams washed out pornstar to me...

So I'm GUESSING the Protodevilin are using some kind of advanced form of neuroscience to measure spiritia?

The Protodevlin always used modified Zentradi and UN Spacey hardware from that captured research fleet that awakened them on Hoth Varuta. Don't forget that around the time of Macross Plus, 5 years prior to M7 the UN Spacey was in the middle of several projects directly involved with Nero-Science:

1. Sharon Apple:

2. Ghost V9:

3. VF-21 Thinking cap system:

The real question is the extent to which sound energy works on a purely biological level by stimulating brain chemistry vs. the extent to which it the will of the listener is a factor - and how sound energy changes his will/heart.

All open questions.

Pete

My theory is that the spiritual energy manifests itself in the "Super Dimension" of the fold. If the "vanished" Fold drive on the SDF can draw on Fold energy to create the pinpoint barrier in our dimension, then the reverse should be possible as well. The "Super Dimension" should be able to draw energy from our dimension: song and spiritual energies. Normally when people sing the spirita energy goes straght to the fold dimension as Spirita energy which we can't feel, think of how the Meltradanti were completely unphased when blasted by Basera and Mylene's sound energy blasts in "The Fleet of the Strongest Women." Protodevilin and Chibi's sound energy detector are affected by Basera's singing with or without the sound booster because they are sensitive the song energy traveling through the fold: Protodelvilin were beings of pure energy from the fold, and as Chibia told Max "I will have to make modifications to Battle 7s Fold Communications system in order for my song energy detector to work."

I also believe that Spirita and Fold energy are one and same and that neither is created nor destroyed it merely passes dimensions. This is where Chiba's Sound Boosters come in, when the user's Sound Energy reaches at least 10,000 Chiba units (Its over 9,000! ) the sound boosters activate and to quote the lycis of planet dance "Take back this forgetten energy" of energy from the fold stream and feed it back to our dimesnion.

[RedWolf]

Ok, I just watched it. I'm not going to review every aspect, especially the Alice Holiday stuff because people did that already and all.

I was thinking a lot about Pete's musing as questions about spiritia. I'm not going to talk about sound energy since we aren't there yet so I'll cover spiritia based only on the observed stuff so far.

Now I am not a neurologist so can only say so much. It is a proven fact that music can change someone's mood. Here it seems to me that when the vamps were stealing Alice's spiritia she was getting more and more depressed to the point she didn't even feel like standing. Had that been pushed further I imagine a person would let themselves stop breathing and just die. Spiritia isn't a life force per say as we can live without it but without it we might not care to live.

In this aspect spiritia kind of becomes a term with no clear definition. Now to go back on the brain chemistry bit, when certain songs are heard (there are also many other stimuli for this as well), our brain can emit various chemicals like horomones that can change how we feel, making us feel better or worse (music making you feel worse is a rarity and depends on your mood and tastes). It seems to me when spiritia is drained, the Protodeviln are robbing our brains of the ability to secrete these chemicals that can makes us feel better or even to feel anything. This is why the worst of those drained end up in catatonic states. They aren't dead, they have just lost the will to continue living. It isn't Fire Bomber's music necessarily that is helping them, but the reason their music works is because Basara strives to sing from his heart and not just to what is popular. That makes the difference here, even if it might not sell well initially.

So in a sense what the protodeviln are feeding off isn't our life, but our brain chemistry, emotions, perhaps the nature of the soul. Of course we cannot yet quantify what exactly the soul is (like I said until we get to the subject of sound energy later I'm not going to cover that). I think that is why it is so hard to get a clear idea of just what spiritia is. I think to the protodeviln, it is just something they know they need and they can see we have it. They are from another universe where physics are different and they are energy (I know the show says another dimension but if you know the difference between universes and dimensions what I say really does make more sense). Here they are physical, and they don't know how to keep themselves alive or better yet, how keep their bodies working. So they noticed the difference others had and stole the difference.

The fact that they have the ability to measure spiritia is more of a necessity than anything. They developed technology to do what they needed. What they are measuring is probably about the chemicals in the brain are affecting the body and all that.

Now, I still want to mention the rain bit. They do have plants on board the ship, so they need rain. Obviously they have a reservoir of water, perhaps split into base elements and compressed as gas (water as a liquid is an incompressible fluid, splitting into gas to compress would make transportation easier). This water is also their drinking water, and every other use of water (remember my commentary on the resort ship's water supply?). The rain is mostly to keep up the plant life, and to resemble realistic Earth conditions. Any of the rain water not absorbed by plant life is probably drained through, cleaned, filtered, and reused for other water needs. Also I should note, that means even the water is finite. While you could stop places to find more water, more than likely they are recycling a lot of stuff. Some people balk at the idea of astronauts on the International Space Station recycling their urine and filtering the water out, but it does result in perfectly clean water. Whether you want to think of it or not, this is most likely happening. Though I imagine most people on the colony don't even realize it.

Your analysis connects to what UN Spacy renegade Colonel Bacelon did in Macross 7 Trash. He used Varauta technology to gather aggresive/competitive type of spiritia from T-Crush players for his Zentradi rebellion.

Bacelon felt that Zentradi became soft and some of them have problems dealing with emotions. Basically a weaponized version of Chiba's method that makes a warrior stronger. But it does have addictive side effects.

Also with Colonel Barton who surretitiously drains an amount of spiritia from Mylene during live performances to make his Evil Series grow.

[VFTF1]

Good point Freiflugg88 regarding Macross Plus - and that scene where they use a beam on Myung's head...it's like they're drawing out her Spiritia and inputting it into the computer/Sharon Apple.

It's all connected...

Who would'a thunk it

Pete

[Marzan]

Good point Freiflugg88 regarding Macross Plus - and that scene where they use a beam on Myung's head...it's like they're drawing out her Spiritia and inputting it into the computer/Sharon Apple.

It's all connected...

Who would'a thunk it

Pete

So as part of the "MW rewatches M7 together thread" we can safely say that Kawamori doesn't reinvent the wheel with every installment of Macross. As you said it's "all connected"

[VFTF1]

Yeah - but I also like how apparently Macross continuity isn't so explicit, and sometimes it's just...vaguely esthetic. Like - that scene with Myung that is pictured above - I mean...we don't know for sure what that beam is doing, but in light of Macross 7, we can certainly say that this was an early form of tapping into spiritia - even if they didn't call it that - it was borrowing SOMETHING from Myung to make Sharon more human and therefore give Sharon a connection to her human audience that a "mere" computer couldn't create...

The fact that later it turns out that Sharon absorbs Myung's love for Dyson is just a nifty side-effect...

But it's never stated, never really said... the only hint we get about scientific thinking from Macross Plus is the one evil dude with glasses saying "I disagree with Aristotle about the body and the soul."

Now - this is very interesting.

For people who don't know - Aristotle posited that the soul is intimately connected to the body. His predeseccor, Plato (via Socrates - sort of) claimed that the Soul existed eternally and that Souls "participated" in bodies in a process that could be called "becoming." Plato (as usual) told a myth whereby Perfect Souls drank from a well of forgetfulness before being born into bodies, and the life of embodied souls was a life of trying to remember everything they forgot. Thus, they start as children and mature - and the more education they get, the more they remember things. Learning is remembering - since once you learn something, you realize that it is logical (since all knowledge is logical) and therefore you realize that it's something you knew by nature but seemed to have forgotten. In death, the body decayed, but the soul would never die. Plato (again via Socrates) gave a mathematical proof for the immortality of the soul. He argued that by definition, for something to Be, it must exist eternally, for if we say that a thing 'is' and yet then admit that at a certain point in time it stops being, then it both "is" and it "is not" - which is not the same as Being 'as such' (Kath Alto was the special little ancient Greek term he used). So, Plato argued, the soul Is - and yet due to it having been corrupted while drinking from the well of forgetfullness, it must Become again. As usual with Plato, his mathetmatical proofs are all based on inductive reasoning and intermingled with poetic explanations for those things which seem to be beyond the reach of human reason, but which are in fact quite reasonable. It's just that Plato seemed intent on replacing Homer with a new, more rationality-based poetry. Anyways...Along came Aristotle later and said that this is all absurd and that the Soul is forever bound up in the body. Aristotle also differentiated between different levels of Souls - souls had traits, and not all souls had the same traits... I forgot what all the traits were...but I think reproduction was one of them...oh...it should also be remembered that the ancient Greek word for "soul" was "anime" - as in "animate" as in "animating" as in "that which moves something" that which "animates" a living thing. I'm sure it's NOT a coincidence that in Macross 7 we have 'anime spiritia' - the animator of the spirit - that which moves the spirit. Anyways - back to Aristotle - Aristotle basically said - look - if you take a table and melt it down and make it into a chair, then once the table is melted down, it looses the soul of a table and once its' remolded into a chair then it gains the soul of a chair. That is to say, he tied soul to functionality. In terms of human beings, he would argue that without the body, the human soul would not be human, since humanity by definition consisted of embodiment and all of the limits that physical embodiment in this world consisted in.

When the dude-with-glasses in Macross Plus says "I disagree with Aristotle about the soul" - he is explicitly talking about disagreeing with Aristotle that the soul is intimately bound with the body. This dude clearly thinks you can take Myung's soul and put it into a computer and manipulate it.

And in Macross Plus at least - he's right. Sharon can't tell that she's just a program -she really thinks she loves Dyson and goes nutts trying to have him - which might indeed be Myung's sub-conscious desire.

But the question of the extent to which Sharon is just a malfunctioning copy of Myung's soul or whether Myung's soul was perfectly replicated is an open one - and it hinges a bit on exactly what the dude in M+ says - namely - what is your view of Aristotle's idea about the soul?

Pete

Edited January 19, 2010 by VFTF1

[RedWolf]

Umm.. Its Anima Spiritia.

Speaking of Marj (The guy who created Sharon Apple), anybody else thinking he is a defective clone of Max?

[Master Dex]

Umm.. Its Anima Spiritia.

Speaking of Marj (The guy who created Sharon Apple), anybody else thinking he is a defective clone of Max?

Yeah, I've been saying it for months.

[Gubaba]

Speaking of Marj (The guy who created Sharon Apple), anybody else thinking he is a defective clone of Max?

Yeah, I've been saying it for months.

A-HEM!!!

[zeroyon]

I'm trying to not read anything in this thread yet, because I am ashamed to say that I am currently watching Macross 7 for the first time. I had watched all the previous series a long while ago (and then frontier last year), but I stayed away from Macross 7 because I had always heard bad things about it from some people I know. I even bought a bunch of Macross 7 manga a few years ago (the trash series and dynamite) because I saw it on sale for less than 100yen a volume at a BookOff store, but I haven't read it yet because of the bad rep of Macross 7 that I had put into my head. Well, let me say that I regret not seeing this anime sooner. The first 10 eps were quite uninteresting... but I'm up to ep 34 now and I am LOVING this series.

It's sad to think that once I finish Macross 7 and Dynamite 7 that there will be no more "new" Macross out there for me to watch, I guess I will have to wait for the frontier movies to come out and then maybe another series 5 or so years down the road like everyone else.....

Edited January 20, 2010 by zeroyon

[Freiflug88]

I have nothing against recycling urine to make water.

Pete

I am all for it as well, but only until drinking milk from giant Meltrandi and song idols clad in hippo cow-spotted swimsuits like its still 2009 in doujin land becomes a viable alternative

When the dude-with-glasses in Macross Plus says "I disagree with Aristotle about the soul" - he is explicitly talking about disagreeing with Aristotle that the soul is intimately bound with the body. This dude clearly thinks you can take Myung's soul and put it into a computer and manipulate it.

And in Macross Plus at least - he's right. Sharon can't tell that she's just a program -she really thinks she loves Dyson and goes nutts trying to have him - which might indeed be Myung's sub-conscious desire.

But the question of the extent to which Sharon is just a malfunctioning copy of Myung's soul or whether Myung's soul was perfectly replicated is an open one - and it hinges a bit on exactly what the dude in M+ says - namely - what is your view of Aristotle's idea about the soul?

Pete

I don't believe Marj was interested in putting Myung's soul into Sharon. I think he just wanted to play god and hoped to find Sharon as an artificial soul mate. I mean the guy obesses over the soul being seprate from the body, is emotionless around flesh and blood human beings, but gets off of feeling up the Sharon monolith, and was all too eager to lay off/and or kill Myung once Sharon was able to go solo. If he just wanted Myung's soul he would probably just go after Myung, I mean if he is the type of guy that can be turned on by a computer box I don't think Myung's looks were any issue. Using Myung was just another necessary step for giving his creation human emotions and without them Sharon would be just another soulless computer program.

Umm.. Its Anima Spiritia.

Speaking of Marj (The guy who created Sharon Apple), anybody else thinking he is a defective clone of Max?

Considering how Mari turned out, this explains why nature intended for Max and Milia to father only girls.

[VFTF1]

I am all for it as well, but only until drinking milk from giant Meltrandi and song idols clad in hippo cow-spotted swimsuits like its still 2009 in doujin land becomes a viable alternative

This is the proper direction for scientific inquiry to take.

Pete

[Marzan]

Considering how Mari turned out, this explains why nature intended for Max and Milia to father only girls.

I think a son of Milia and Max would have been a bit too much testosterone for the galaxy to handle...

[Master Dex]

I think a son of Milia and Max would have been a bit too much testosterone for the galaxy to handle...

Yeah, there can be only one Max.

[Freiflug88]

This is the proper direction for scientific inquiry to take.

Pete

Indeed.

I think a son of Milia and Max would have been a bit too much testosterone for the galaxy to handle...

Macross 8: Fleet of the The Sharpest Knives...

[Marzan]

]

Love your new avatar.

As Milia herself would in her fantastic engrish: "What a body!"

[Kicker773]

What episode is everybody on? I'm gonna do a marathon this sunday, but trying to find a better version since the ones i have are not that of good quality

[Marzan]

What episode is everybody on? I'm gonna do a marathon this sunday, but trying to find a better version since the ones i have are not that of good quality

We're up to episode 9. Episode 10 is due sometime this weekend.

Enjoy the M7 marathon. Bomba!

[VFTF1]

Yeah. Enjoy.

I'm going to be late this weekend too...as usual recently... I missed my work out routine at the gym last weekend due to a series of unbelievable predicaments that coincidentially foiled my every attempt to go to the gym. I'm determined to go tomorrow, and afterwards I'll once again fall into the clutches loving embrace of my girlfriend, who keeps me away from the computer ... So I'll likely be back on Sunday night to see what everyone's had to say about episode 10!

Pete

[Freiflug88]

Love your new avatar.

As Milia herself would in her fantastic engrish: "What a body!"

Thanks, something told me it would "enjoy a greater then 90 percent approval rating."

You will probably also love the news that I got more in the works and I hope to find the time to have them done and posted up on the charater art thread this weekend.

Also did you ever hunt down that My Soul Accustic instrumental track? If you want I can rip it from Episode 21, where its used without any background noise.

[Master Dex]

Ok, I cheated. Only Thursday night and I watched episode 10, but I like this one. I'll wait a day or so to post my stuff though. Big character episode, Ray mostly. I don't know if I have much to say for the science bit in this episode, so that may be a bit dry. Either way, I'll get to my review tomorrow.

[VFTF1]

It's Friday in Poland! Post away!

Pete

[Marzan]

Thanks, something told me it would "enjoy a greater then 90 percent approval rating."

You will probably also love the news that I got more in the works and I hope to find the time to have them done and posted up on the charater art thread this weekend.

Also did you ever hunt down that My Soul Accustic instrumental track? If you want I can rip it from Episode 21, where its used without any background noise.

Looking forward to the art. There's nearly not enough Milia in the character art thread!!

Thanks a lot for the offer. I actually did manage to hunt down a Macross Festival 95' raw which contains not only My Soul for You, but also Remember 16 and Totsukegi Love Heart. All voice/guitar only versions. Unfortunately its on an .mkv file so I haven't been able to split them up and into mp3 format yet...

Hopefully will be able to watch episode 10 tomorrow...

[Master Dex]

Ok then, Episode 10.

I liked this episode, really did. Ray is an interesting character and we learn a bit about his past for the first time here. I know there is an M7 Plus short eventually that goes into detail with his friendship with Stephan and how both had a thing for Akiko but Ray backed off. I am watching the remastered episodes though and they don't have those so I have only seen that once. I don't remember if it was attached to this episode or later.

Anyway, they say Ray vowed to never use a gun or fight again after he inadvertently caused Stephan to get killed. They don't label it but that could be classified as a type of Post Traumatic Stress disorder. In this case the trauma being the loss of his best friend. Luckily it seems meeting Basara and finding somthing new for him helped him get over a lot of that.

They don't directly say, but Ray's secret friends that got Basara's Valkyrie out to the catapult were most likely friends he had from when he was in the Pink Pecker squadron. So special favors for him are no big deal.

It isn't said how much of Ray's past Basara is privy too. He says he doesn't know anything and doesn't stick his nose into other people's past but he could be saying that because he believes it is Ray's business to tell people if he wants. Akiko clearly didn't think that way. Of course Basara might not really know. I think he does though because after everyone left the hospital room and just Ray and Basara are there, there seems to be a silence of understanding. Basara would never wonder why Ray didn't shoot. We know why Basara wouldn't but the reasoning is different. I got the impression he knew and his silence was sort of a way of saying he understood.

On that note I figure Basara knows more about Ray because their friendship is more than just being band mates. I personally believe Ray is who taught Basara how to pilot a valkyrie. It isn't often stated but Basara is a truly exceptional pilot. Actually it is stated in this very episode, by Max himself. That is true acknowledgment there. Of course in true Max fashion he allows himself some self-gloating about the fact that he is still the best. Max will always be my favorite Macross character for traits like that. While Basara isn't as good as Max, he is still really good. This becomes even more apparent much later on in Dynamite 7 when we see him piloting a valkyrie with normal controls but using his acoustic guitar to nudge them and he is still able to fly well. That is some crazy skill! So Basara had to learn this skill somewhere, and Ray was a pilot. So it stands to reason that Ray is who taught Basara the basics at least. We also know that Ray is who gave Basara the VF-19. Hinted at in this episode was that it was a part of a secret operation known as Operation M. All of us who've seen the show before know what that is but since it wasn't elaborated on further I'll keep quiet on that for now.

So we learn a lot about characters in this episode. Unfortunately as I said before, I couldn't find anything obvious or outstanding that I could talk about for my science bit this time. It rained again in City 7 but I talked about that already. For anyone though who thinks I overdo it with the science bit, I just like clarifying things and clearing misconceptions. I'm not really out to nitpick everything done wrong, it is an anime after all and not everything will be correct. If I wanted to be really annoying I'd talk nonstop about how all the valks and ships move around in space. 90% of sci-fi tends to not portray accurate movements in microgravity. However I don't talk about this because it would be futile and it is just a show. Hence why I only talk about various specific things I see in each individual episode. I have just as much fun noting something they did that was scientifically accurate as I do explaining why something is not.

Finally, I'm a sucker for Totsugeki Love Heart, always good to hear that song. I do like Planet Dance (easily a victim of the aforementioned Planet Dance effect) but I'd listen to Totsugeki Love Heart over that any day.

[Freiflug88]

Unfortunately its on an .mkv file so I haven't been able to split them up and into mp3 format yet...

Install MKV Toolnix to use under OGM cleaver. OGM cleaver is the tool of choice for spliting OGMs and MKVs.

They don't directly say, but Ray's secret friends that got Basara's Valkyrie out to the catapult were most likely friends he had from when he was in the Pink Pecker squadron. So special favors for him are no big deal.

Am I the only one who finds it hiliariously ironic that its Ray, the one black guy in the Pink Squadron squadron that doesn't have a ahh pink pecker that survives?

On a more serious note, I liked how after Ray went off to pick up Basera's Valk from his buddies at that secret hanger entrance out in the wood he gets scolding from Basera for pushing himself while wounded. Not only does it show how caring that Basera is at heart, but just how much a like he and Mylene, who is the one usually doing the scolding, really are.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Freiflug88

[Marzan]

Like Master Dex I really liked this episode since it really moves the plot along. So far the story has moved along slowly, and its only now in episode 10 that we get the answer to the question that has been nagging at Gamlin. Why does Nekki Basara have a state of the art VF-19 for his own personal use? And is Max so nonchalant about Basara intervening in the ongoing battles with the invaders (although poor Gamlin is still being kept in the dark about it!).

One thing that surprised me was how physical Basara can actually get when tested by the "vampires". Whilst Ray and Veffidas are considerably larger and stronger looking that Basara, he's the only one the shoves them or pushes them out of the way when they are being chased. We're made well aware by this episode of Ray's pacifism, but Veffidas' reluctance to engage in any kind of conflict is still a mystery upon to this point. I mean, she does look like she'd be kind of useful in a fight!

They don't directly say, but Ray's secret friends that got Basara's Valkyrie out to the catapult were most likely friends he had from when he was in the Pink Pecker squadron. So special favors for him are no big deal.

Don't you get the feeling that this goes all the way to the top up to Max himself, and the mysterious "Operation M"??

Am I the only one who finds it hiliariously ironic that its Ray, the one black guy in the Pink Squadron squadron that doesn't have a ahh pink pecker that survives?

Am I the only one who finds the name "Pink Pecker Squadron" absolutely hilarious? I mean were the scriptwriters aware of what they were writing at the time?

[RedWolf]

Don't you get the feeling that this goes all the way to the top up to Max himself, and the mysterious "Operation M"??

Operation M is plan that has been in the back burner and part of the budget for decades. Thing is until Basara they didn't find anybody or opportunity to properly implement it. I suspect Macross Frontier has its own version of Operation M when Leon Mishima recommended that should they use songs on the Vajra to President Howard Glass.

Seven years later Operation M is still around in Macross 7 for a new generation of musical pilots.

[Gubaba]

Am I the only one who finds the name "Pink Pecker Squadron" absolutely hilarious? I mean were the scriptwriters aware of what they were writing at the time?

Oh, I think the scriptwriters knew...they probably just figured that the viewers wouldn't.

[Freiflug88]

Am I the only one who finds it hiliariously ironic that its Ray, the one black guy in the Pink Squadron squadron that doesn't have a ahh pink pecker that survives?

Correction. Kinryu actually fought in the Pink Pecker Squad as well!

So the squad was really one pink pecker, who died, and two black anacondas! Its no wonder Akiko often hung out with the Squadron in her younger days.

Also look at the uncanny similarities between Ray's buddy Stephan and Gamlin. It reminds of how in the M7 Plus Video "Top Gamlin" it shows young Gamlin at a funeral watching two fighter jets shoot up into the "Heavens" moments after the reveand says "We send him to join you in your Heavenly world, in the name of the lard Amen." I think perhaps Gamlin could be related to Stephan and thus the funeral was Stephan's where he saw I am assuming Ray and Kinry, his future captain, see off into their friend into the heavens with their fighters.

Am I the only one who finds the name "Pink Pecker Squadron" absolutely hilarious? I mean were the scriptwriters aware of what they were writing at the time?

Not only is there name absoultely hilarious, but just think of what should have happened to those "Pink Peckers" who found themselves deep behind female Meltrandi lines...

I quess the Pink Peckers just didn't figure that the blue Queadluun-Raus are probably for the manly lesbian Meltrandies.

The writers obviously knew, just listen to Mylene's "Pink Pecker...!?" reaction. Too bad they don't show Mylene's face though because it was in the middle of the Pink Pecker Squad flashbacks.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Freiflug88