The MW rewatches M7 together Thread

[Soukou]

The one thing I can add is that Bassara looks really creepy as he "enthusiastically" plays his guitar while Mylene sings in the arb and brings Alice Holiday's Spiritia back up. It's just the animation is so ... well... wierd... Basara's got this crazy grin on his face and he's not so much nodding or head banging as his animation cel is being visibly moved...I dunno how else to put it - but that scene always was kind of ruined for me by that strange animation....

But this scene was beautifully animated compared to some of the things you get to see on later episodes.

[Marzan]

Not only is there name absoultely hilarious, but just think of what should have happened to those "Pink Peckers" who found themselves deep behind female Meltrandi lines...

I quess the Pink Peckers just didn't figure that the blue Queadluun-Raus are probably for the manly lesbian Meltrandies.

Basara still wasn't around to save them

[RedWolf]

After Space War 1 Queadluun-Raus no longer were exclusively for Meltrans. As seen with Quamzin and Laplamiz's rebels.

Didn't pay any attention but interesting they are using SDF Macross TV version of the Queadluun-Rau. With The Fleet of the Strongest Women using the DYRL version does this mean both versions exist in the continuity?

[Freiflug88]

Basara still wasn't around to save them

It didn't occur to me that Basera's music could also turn alien lesbians into bi-sexuals.

This needs to be added to the top of the list of why Fire Bomer rocks and used in more pro-M7 arguements from now on.

After Space War 1 Queadluun-Raus no longer were exclusively for Meltrans. As seen with Quamzin and Laplamiz's rebels.

Didn't pay any attention but interesting they are using SDF Macross TV version of the Queadluun-Rau. With The Fleet of the Strongest Women using the DYRL version does this mean both versions exist in the continuity?

I know Queadluun-Raus can be used by anyone. I assume the Pink Pecker Squad was formed with the notion they would be fighting againist enemy Meltrans exclusively in their area though. No straight man would want to name their squad the pink peckers for combat against male Zentradi.

Well both the TV and DYRL types of Zentradi exist in the continuity so I would figure both verisions of Queadluun-Rau probably exist as well.

[Kicker773]

are those screen caps from the remastered version? my god they are so clear

[Dio]

One thing I never really noticed in earlier viewings that has become clear in this re-watch is that Gepelnitch seems... almost tired of being what he is. He has sort of an other-worldly lament toward the practice of having to hunt down and kill prey for spiritia, and it shows in his analytical "testing" of the humans for their abilities to regenerate spiritia energy. Then again, it could just be in the interest of self-preservation since

the Protodevlin DID pretty much drain the universe of life and almost starved to death

if I recall correctly, and he doesn't seem much interested in human welfare beyond their capacity as a renewable resource. Still, it'd be interesting to think he's got at least a little bit of an open mind to a mutually beneficial solution, since he hasn't put forth the effort yet to just capture the fleet and test the humans in a controlled environment, and is instead using small raids of Elgerzorenes to sneak in his agents for internal testing.

Gigil, on the other hand, is much more of a sadist at this point, but his constant disappointment with Gepelnitch does sort of put him in an awkward place. He's a fightin' dog, but keeps being held back on the leash and is forced to follow orders he disagrees with. I never noticed the general rebelliousness before, I always thought it was because of

Sivil

, but it really does make the character seem deeper.

Thanks to you guys I'm starting to piece together "Operation M" and what it means in relation to the series. That anwers one of a few things I had just written off as requisites for suspension of disbelief, such as "just how DID Basara get that VF-19 Kai?" This has to probably be the most attention I've paid while watching Macross 7, but it seems like every time there's some small subtlety I didn't notice before that makes it seem that much more enjoyable.

Quick question -is there anything in Japanese (either linguistically or just a quirk of their naming conventions) that might have dissuaded them from using the full word "Woodpecker" when naming Ray's old squadron? I can't see much difficulty in something like "Pinku Wudopeka," unless abbreviating it to "Peka" just made it fit better with the alliteration.

[RedWolf]

Well elites as it were during the late 2030's and early 2040's have a color-animal naming scheme.

For example the UN Spacy Marine platoon of the ill fated Varauta expedition called itself Blue Rhinoceros Squad.

Macross 7 has mostly a jewel themed naming scheme such as Diamond Force, Emerald Thunder and

Emerald Force

. The tactical wing that get called out most and has a high casualty rate is Angel Squadron.

Macross Frontier's NUNS squadrons have a color naming scheme such as Purple Squadron and Vermillion Squadron. Diamond Squadron seems to be a exception. There is also the star naming scheme such as Brera's Antares Team and Alto's Sagitarius Team.

Also there is Isamu's Eagle Squadron before he got dumped at New Edwards Airforce Base on Eden.

Special forces more cool sounding names such as the VF-X Ravens and the Dancing Skulls.

Oddly squadron names of the original Macross is the most homaged. Angel, Apollo, Purple and Vermillion Squadrons. Skulls isn't much used though it could be a case like the VF-19. It is the hero squadron thus only Dancing Skull and SMS Skull squads get to use them.

[sketchley]

Also look at the uncanny similarities between Ray's buddy Stephan and Gamlin. It reminds of how in the M7 Plus Video "Top Gamlin" it shows young Gamlin at a funeral watching two fighter jets shoot up into the "Heavens" moments after the reveand says "We send him to join you in your Heavenly world, in the name of the lard Amen." I think perhaps Gamlin could be related to Stephan and thus the funeral was Stephan's where he saw I am assuming Ray and Kinry, his future captain, see off into their friend into the heavens with their fighters.

This is a very interesting observation. It makes me think that there's much, much more going on in M7 than what the narrative presents.

Not only is there name absoultely hilarious, but just think of what should have happened to those "Pink Peckers" who found themselves deep behind female Meltrandi lines...

Edited January 24, 2010 by sketchley

[Marzan]

are those screen caps from the remastered version? my god they are so clear

They do look really nice, don't they? Almost makes me want to download them (don't really know where to though) and replace my old trusty Central Anime version!

[nexxstrait]

They do look really nice, don't they? Almost makes me want to download them (don't really know where to though) and replace my old trusty Central Anime version!

You should. Google is your friend.

[RedWolf]

Also look at the uncanny similarities between Ray's buddy Stephan and Gamlin. It reminds of how in the M7 Plus Video "Top Gamlin" it shows young Gamlin at a funeral watching two fighter jets shoot up into the "Heavens" moments after the reveand says "We send him to join you in your Heavenly world, in the name of the lard Amen." I think perhaps Gamlin could be related to Stephan and thus the funeral was Stephan's where he saw I am assuming Ray and Kinry, his future captain, see off into their friend into the heavens with their fighters.

You know what I always wondered about Top Gamlin. From his profile Gamlin was raised in Mars yet we see him in his childhood that is obviously not Mars.

[Master Dex]

You know what I always wondered about Top Gamlin. From his profile Gamlin was raised in Mars yet we see him in his childhood that is obviously not Mars.

Could be a large enclosure on Mars using holography to simulate Earth appearances like the colony fleets do. 30 years is too short for terraforming to have done anything so I'd guess this to be the case. Or the flashbacks are when he was elsewhere for whatever reason.

[Freiflug88]

Could be a large enclosure on Mars using holography to simulate Earth appearances like the colony fleets do. 30 years is too short for terraforming to have done anything so I'd guess this to be the case. Or the flashbacks are when he was elsewhere for whatever reason.

I believe it could have well been a terraformed Mars. In the last episode of SDF Macross Kamjin's ship uproots mountains and amazon rainforests that it was buried under as a testament to just how well the UN had repaired the decimated earth in such a short time. So its very concivable that they terraformed Mars into a habitable planet in a short time. Also I don't think holographs and large enclosures could explain away the layers of clouds and atmosphere that jets flew though in Top Gamlin.

EDIT: While Gamlin was training under Milia it was obviously while attached to the M7 Fleet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c5YbaKenUw#t=1m14s As for the final test, it looks like its on a Jupiter like planet. The funeral could have been on Mars though as their was obviously an atmosphere and clouds for the two jets to fly though.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Freiflug88

[Master Dex]

I believe it could have well been a terraformed Mars. In the last episode of SDF Macross Kamjin's ship uproots mountains and amazon rainforests that it was buried under as a testament to just how well the UN had repaired the decimated earth in such a short time. So its very concivable that they terraformed Mars into a habitable planet in a short time. Also I don't think holographs and large enclosures could explain away the layers of clouds and atmosphere that jets flew though in Top Gamlin.

EDIT: While Gamlin was training under Milia it was obviously while attached to the M7 Fleet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c5YbaKenUw#t=1m14s As for the final test, it looks like its on a Jupiter like planet. The funeral could have been on Mars though as their was obviously an atmosphere and clouds for the two jets to fly though.

You have a point for the jets. However we don't know if it was even Mars. I am skeptical to the terraforming still. Your mention of the scene from the last episode of SDFM is notable, but it could have been when that area was animated they forgot everything was supposed to be dead, or perhaps that was a lucky area that wasn't blasted (only about 70% of the planet was hit, which means a lot of water was hit I guess...). Though that does seem unlikely. The thing is, in the Reconstruction episode, Hikaru just found a flower which was a sign life was coming back after almost two years. Seems unlikely after that they realized they could reforest entire mountains in less than a year. I don't even know how you would do that, terraforming aside.

Incidentally I'm going to go on a science bit here, even though it isn't related to an episode in general.

Terraforming doesn't necessarily have to do with planting either, it is just that for Mars that is a necessity to increase oxygen levels. The biggest problems for Mars is it's low temperature due to thin atmosphere (itself due to lower gravity) and the planet's lack of a magnetic field to shield from cosmic radiation. The latter is likely caused by Mars' inner core solidifying millions (perhaps billions) of years ago due to cooling. We can raise the heat of Mars by (ironically) polluting it to raise greenhouse gases. In other words... global warming. Another way is to put a spacecraft near an asteroid to tug it over several years so it will impact Mars in the northern icecap (there are reasons for the northern over the southern but I won't get into that). This impact will melt the ice there and spread it out increasing carbon dioxide levels which will cause the same type of greenhouse gas effect. We will have to do more work to make the atmosphere cleaner for us but either way we have to dirty up the planet first to heat it up. The greenhouse gases could also increase air pressure. It would be to the point where you'd only need an oxygen mask to walk outside instead of a full space suit. Then you can work on the breathing bit.

As for the magnetic field... I don't know if we can naturally restore that or not. However in the future I can see us being able to artificially generate a planet sized magnetic field to protect the planet. Would take a lot of power but planetary magnetic fields are actually pretty weak compared to some things we have done. They are just big. I have no doubt in the future, probably some hundred years ahead that living on Mars could be common place.

My point to all this is that it seems unlikely that even if the UN Spacey could reforest entire mountains and as such set up forests on Mars in such a short time, I don't know if they could do all the other things (plants wouldn't survive very well in the cold temperatures, and the cosmic radiation will not be nice to them either). Now of course this doesn't mean that the writers of the show knew all this, so it certainly could be possible that Mars is completely terraformed in the context of Macross because they just decided that it is possible for them. So yeah, it could be that Gamlin was on Mars there in the show. I am just using my science bit to explain what it would really take. After all we don't know how terraforming processes have been advanced thanks to overtechnology.

[Renato]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned "Sniper Guy" yet. That guy reminds me of Colonel Johnson from Mospeada. Except without the backstabbing selling out of troops to the enemy.

[Renato]

Macross 7 has mostly a jewel themed naming scheme such as Diamond Force, Emerald Thunder and

Emerald Force

. The tactical wing that get called out most and has a high casualty rate is Angel Squadron.

What was Emerald Thunder?

[RedWolf]

What was Emerald Thunder?

A Valkyrie squadron.

You have a point for the jets. However we don't know if it was even Mars. I am skeptical to the terraforming still. Your mention of the scene from the last episode of SDFM is notable, but it could have been when that area was animated they forgot everything was supposed to be dead, or perhaps that was a lucky area that wasn't blasted (only about 70% of the planet was hit, which means a lot of water was hit I guess...). Though that does seem unlikely. The thing is, in the Reconstruction episode, Hikaru just found a flower which was a sign life was coming back after almost two years. Seems unlikely after that they realized they could reforest entire mountains in less than a year. I don't even know how you would do that, terraforming aside.

I assumed it was the Amazon rainforest where the gunship crashed. 20% of the planet's oxygen comes from the Amazon. Obviously Earth isn't a dead planet.

The Grand Cannon did manage to kill off a portion of Bodolle Zer's fleet.

Edited January 25, 2010 by RedWolf

[hulagu]

Macross 7 has mostly a jewel themed naming scheme such as Diamond Force, Emerald Thunder and

Emerald Force

. The tactical wing that get called out most and has a high casualty rate is Angel Squadron.

Say, why is Docker's squadron called Emerald Force anyway? Their colour scheme is blue instead of green. OK, so Diamond Force doesn't really fit either, but still...

Edited January 25, 2010 by hulagu

[Gubaba]

Say, why is Docker's squadron called Emerald Force anyway? Their colour scheme is blue instead of green. OK, so Diamond Force doesn't really fit either, but still...

Vermilion Squadron wasn't Vermilion. Purple Squadron wasn't purple. Brown, Orange, and Cerulean Squadrons weren't...well, you get the picture.

MY question, on the other hand, is...if we've got Diamond and Emerald Squadrons...where's Ruby Squadron?

[Renato]

A Valkyrie squadron.

Oh.

[Uxi]

Or Sapphire Squadron.

[Master Dex]

So... did we do episode 11?

[miles316]

A Valkyrie squadron.

I assumed it was the Amazon rainforest where the gunship crashed. 20% of the planet's oxygen comes from the Amazon. Obviously Earth isn't a dead planet.

The Grand Cannon did manage to kill off a portion of Bodolle Zer's fleet.

I would assume the Bodolle would target the digest city's first since they would be the easiest to target since they had to fight the Earth/Free Zentrady while killing the Earth.

[Marzan]

So... did we do episode 11?

Nope.

It seems we all neglected our M7 duties this past weekend. I'll try to watch it later today and post my impressions..

[Marzan]

Episode 11 anyone? I'm really bad at this writeups but I feel like getting this discussion started so here I go.

I remember how much I loved this episode when I first watched M7 due to the fact that its probably one of the first times in the Macross timeline that events from the past series are shown quite so explicitly. And its also the first time since Macross II that one gets to see full size Zentraedi.

The story is simple enough. Mylene and Basara are chosen to play Minmei and Hikaru for the "Lynn Minmei Story TV Special", a documentary that's meant to be a morale boosting exercise on behalf of the military and civilian government of Macross 7. Basara at one point refuses to play the role of Hikaru, but is forced to do so by Ray when the reserve Hikaru is "indisposed". While filming the Hikaru/Minmei Valkyrie joyride scene from DYRL, they encounter the aliens and a short yet fierce combat ensues.

The central point of this episode in my opinion, is that it clearly establishes Basara as the successor of Minmei, which perhaps was not quite evident up to this point. From the moment that Mylene sees Basara's determined expression while he's watching a video of Minmei during the space war (taken from DYRL, to seeing him once again sing in the face of the enemy instead of fighting them; trying to win an enemy over by singing is once again at the forefront of the story.

Another interesting detail, is that Max and Miria are trying hard to keep their separation a secret. Apparently they believe it would be bad for morale on board the Macross 7 convoy. It hadn't really dawned on me that morale was so low at this point in face of the repeated alien attacks as well as the vampire situation.

Finally, we get another small piece of information regarding the enemy. The machines they have been using are the type sent to the 4th planet in the Varauta 3198 XE system.

2 questions

What was the point of the whole Bobby interlude? He's not relevant at all for the story.

I don't know if it was here in M7 that it first became clear that the DYRL character (and mecha) designs would be preferred over the SDFM ones for future Macross references?

[Gubaba]

What was the point of the whole Bobby interlude? He's not relevant at all for the story.

How else are you going to put Mylene in peril?

And he kinda/sorta becomes important later, as one of the Jammingbirds.

Besides, it may not be relevant, but there is a great *wink wink* joke thrown in there...since Bobby was voiced by Arihiro Hase, the VA for Hikaru.

[Jasonc]

The wife and I are on episode 6, still trying to catch her up for the weekly viewings... Oh wow, she likes the fact that we can understand it, and "Planet Dance" isn't translated as "Perry Stands".

[Renato]

What was the point of the whole Bobby interlude? He's not relevant at all for the story.

I haven't rewatched the episode yet (maybe later this week), but if I recall correctly, Bobby needed to get attacked by the vampire and be put out of action so that Basara could end up in the role of Hikaru once more, even though he had quit by that point.

And yeah, I love the Arihiro Hase in-joke. It sounds so nostalgic when he says "Let's go, 'Minmay'".

[Dio]

The central point of this episode in my opinion, is that it clearly establishes Basara as the successor of Minmei, which perhaps was not quite evident up to this point. From the moment that Mylene sees Basara's determined expression while he's watching a video of Minmei during the space war (taken from DYRL, to seeing him once again sing in the face of the enemy instead of fighting them; trying to win an enemy over by singing is once again at the forefront of the story.

...

Finally, we get another small piece of information regarding the enemy. The machines they have been using are the type sent to the 4th planet in the Varauta 3198 XE system.

I'm not as convinced on the Basara-Minmei-connection, as I think this was more of a developmental moment for Mylene. She's beginning to understand how determined Basara is (and Minmei was), and maybe also learning the kind of passion she needs to put into her own singing. If anything, I'd say it's the establishment of a link from Mylene to Minmei, using Basara as a sort of bridge between the two.

Also, the enemy craft are heavily modified versions of the exploratory mission's valkyries. It seems the Protodeviln are much more than beasts with human exteriors, they actually possess a high degree of technical skill - not just for Spiritia extraction (though that's a primary goal), but also just a generally advanced science which surpasses that of humans. This is also evidenced by their seeming ability to fold instantly, though that's probably just more for show convenience, so that Gigil can turn tail and retreat abruptly (do Protodeviln ever have dramatic last-second escape folds?).

[RedWolf]

(do Protodeviln ever have dramatic last-second escape folds?).

Escape Folds?! Watch the episodes towards the end and you get how deadly the Protodevlin are with natural fold ability. For that matter they can interfere with folding itself.

As for Varauta Army ships the technology was derived from Varauta's colony and Reseach Fleet. Protodevlin took over the expedition then the colony in 2043 and in the span of two years built a fleet of a thousand ships and thousands of Valkyries. The main flagship has 8 Macross cannons and 8 anti-fleet super size Reaction bombs. Yeah scary....

This is just a small scale example of what the Supervision Army was.

Also, the enemy craft are heavily modified versions of the exploratory mission's valkyries.

The Varauta colony variants of the VF-14 (VA-14?). Unlike those VF-14 flown by Max and Millia during their Dancing Skull days those are bulkier.

[Freiflug88]

I don't know if it was here in M7 that it first became clear that the DYRL character (and mecha) designs would be preferred over the SDFM ones for future Macross references?

The first OVA of Macross Plus, that premired a month before M7, was the first to make the DYRL prefrance clear unless you count Mac II.

Right from the beginning Mac Plus shows Isamu with his DYRL-style sholder pads fighting Zentradi battle suits that look very reminscent of the DYRL-style Nousjadeul-Ger. Mac Plus not only used the DYRL combat mecha, but the civilian mecha as well with their futurisitic car styles. Mac + also kept the Macross "armed" with the ARMD Space Carriors over the Promethus and Daedulus aircraft carriers from SDF.

Also wanted to add that while I was checking this I noticed someone very interesting at the Sharon Concert crowd...

♫Its Shoji Kawamori Gendo!♫

...with his Space Vampire pal

Keel Lorenz!

:lol:

Besides, it may not be relevant, but there is a great *wink wink* joke thrown in there...since Bobby was voiced by Arihiro Hase, the VA for Hikaru.

Of course, give it to the Macross crew to make it work on so many levels...

[Renato]

Of course, give it to the Macross crew to make it work on so many levels...

Or rather, just leave it to PsyKorps and/or Central Anime.

Basically, that is a mistranslation. "ケーキ" would be "cake", but what Bobby actually says is "稽古" (けいこ), which is "rehearsal". So all this time he is asking to take Mylene somewhere to "rehearse", and when Mylene in the car asks what he's doing he says "I'm 'rehearsing'!"

But what the hey, it's an even more convoluted and uncanny coincidence this way.

Although I do like that Basara's pun about there being "allsorts of bloodsuckers around" remained intact in the subtitles (referring to both Bobby and the vampire guy).

EDIT -- I would like to add that I am eternally grateful for the hard work that Central Anime/PsyKorps put into that fansub, and if I didn't have those tapes in the 90's I would probably not be speaking Japanese now... So I mean no harm at all, in fact, they did an excellent and outstanding job. I look forward to more improvements and corrections once Gubaba gets around to doing the show.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Renato

[Freiflug88]

Or rather, just leave it to PsyKorps and/or Central Anime.

Basically, that is a mistranslation. "ケーキ" would be "cake", but what Bobby actually says is "稽古" (けいこ), which is "rehearsal". So all this time he is asking to take Mylene somewhere to "rehearse", and when Mylene in the car asks what he's doing he says "I'm 'rehearsing'!"

Thanks, that makes much more sense. I just knew how it was odd how

1. Mylene got all worried after Bobby took left turn at the fork in the road.

2. How fast Basera suddenly realized something was up after they didn't show up for cake.

I mean obviously their are plenty of places to eat cake, but

It also explains why Bobby was drawn with a dog collar around his neck. The part about "rehearsing" to explain his advances to Mylene is obviously a throw back to Minmay's line about "it just being acting" before she makes about without Hikaru, and when I went back to that moment in DYRL I noticed that Minmay also had a collar on.

So hand it to the Macross crew to make it work on so many levels...

[Marzan]

How else are you going to put Mylene in peril?

And he kinda/sorta becomes important later, as one of the Jammingbirds.

Besides, it may not be relevant, but there is a great *wink wink* joke thrown in there...since Bobby was voiced by Arihiro Hase, the VA for Hikaru.

I did not know that Hikaru's VA had taken part in another Macross. Brilliant

Thanks, that makes much more sense. I just knew how it was odd how

1. Mylene got all worried after Bobby took left turn at the fork in the road.

2. How fast Basera suddenly realized something was up after they didn't show up for cake.

I mean obviously their are plenty of places to eat cake, but

It also explains why Bobby was drawn with a dog collar around his neck. The part about "rehearsing" to explain his advances to Mylene is obviously a throw back to Minmay's line about "it just being acting" before she makes about without Hikaru, and when I went back to that moment in DYRL I noticed that Minmay also had a collar on.

So hand it to the Macross crew to make it work on so many levels...

Makes one wonder how much one misses, specially the humour. That's why this thread is so enjoyable.

[Seto Kaiba]

Makes one wonder how much one misses, specially the humour. That's why this thread is so enjoyable.

Rather a lot, I'm afraid... I was rather lucky when I first saw Macross 7. At the time, I was dating someone who was fluent in Japanese, so she made catching all the little jokes a hell of a lot easier, and got me started learning the language too. The experience I got back then is certainly making my re-watch of Macross with the remastered edition MKVs a lot easier.

Just got started re-watching the series from the beginning (I know, slowpoke.jpg) the other day. It took a while to get the space cleared to store all 20gB or so of it.. just started into episode 15 right now. Definitely not my cup of tea, but it's a lot less annoying than I remember it being... probably because I'm no longer entirely dependent on Central Anime's spotty subtitles. All the same, I'm determined to watch the whole damn thing and reassess my opinion of it accordingly, and I still had a few "f*** yeah" moments with Diamond Force, Gamlin, and with Milia's VF-1J.