The MW rewatches M7 together Thread

[shiroth]

Watching the first and second episode today, so i'll be ready to watch the third episode alongside everyone else tomorrow/saturday.

Watching on a weekly basis will be lots of fun, especially seeing as though i've never really talked to anyone about the series before. I've had a few light discussions now and then, though the majority of people i know were turned off by the first 10 or so episodes, as everyone knows very well going by the posts in this thread.

Anyway, Shiroth's favorite quote from episode 01:

Also, i love how Max says "don't take your eyes of that monitor" three times in the space of around 3/4 minutes.

Edited November 19, 2009 by shiroth

[VFTF1]

Welcome aboard - happy you're joining us

As to your favorite quote: well - see - it's as I always say, one of the genius things about Macross 7 is just how much it reflects the reality of how people view Basara's music. You'll also notice that the audience in attendance at the concert wasn't exactly huge, and when Fire Bomber started playing, it's not like throngs were screaming "play! play!" - and it kind of took people a bit to be roused by the music, to even notice it.

So - this anime certainly allows for people not understanding, not liking, or not appreciating Bassara's music.

Of course, I always wondered...

does Max say this because he is old, and like all old guys, thinks the music of his youth was the best ever (thus...Minmey?)... or is it because Max just can't relate to music as such?

I'm trying to remember if SDFM TV gives us any clues - and it seems to me that Max was musically gifted. He had to be because he offered to sing to Minmey during her birthday party when Hikaru refused. Naturally, the act was gentlemanly courtesy, but I wonder - was he going to sing badly, or did he also know how to sing?

In any event... I never noticed him really enjoying a Minimey concert...

Pete

[shiroth]

does Max say this because he is old, and like all old guys, thinks the music of his youth was the best ever (thus...Minmey?)... or is it because Max just can't relate to music as such?

Going by the subs, i think it's either A) Max isn't into rock music, or B) as you said, feels he's old and rather go for the music of his youth. If i remember correctly, there isn't another scene in the series that has Max commenting of Fire Bomber's music, so it's really hard to say.

Edited November 19, 2009 by shiroth

[MastaEgg]

I just finished watching the whole show (thanks to this thread for getting me back into it). I thought I'd have to push myself to watch the whole thing, but it turned out to be a suprisingly entertaining series. Some of the eps are REALLY out there and the show even dips into super robot territory at times, but the music's great and so are the characters.

Yes, I actually think Basara is cool now. Well, cooler than Alto at least.

[VFTF1]

Heh - I was on track to commiting the same act as you - but thankfully I got sick and stopped being able to download episodes Naturally I appreciate the enthusiasm and am really happ that you say you watched everything "thanks to this thread" and I am happy with your conclusion of course

That said - I really do want to try to keep this thread at a turtle's pace. I myself have been guilty of making comments that pertain to future episodes, so naturally it's not as rigorous as it should be - and there is no enforcement mechanism (and shouldn't be).

That said... I hope that even though you've watched the whole series through, you'll still come visit us here to share your thoughts on individual episodes and things as they slowly progress

It's this that I'm most interested in.

Because... look at it this way - it seems to me that lots of people usually write exactly as you do, or the exact opposite, namely "I've just watched the whole series and man does it suck!"

I actually find it interesting that there are so many folks who manage to watch all of it and hate all of it at the same time. Or is this just an illusion I'm under?

I hope that by going slowly, episode by episode, we can get a feel for what people think of the parts, not only the whole..

Err...anyways...I'll stop babbling now

Pete

[shiroth]

Episode 02 begins the long running argue between Basara and Mylene. We're in for a long ride with that.

Shiroth's favorite quote from episode 02:

It should have been obvious that i'd choose this line.

Edited November 21, 2009 by shiroth

[VFTF1]

That is a lovely line

And I am once again negligent in my duties! I'm so sorry. Apparently even Gubaba is no longer gonna bail me out - and rightly so... I totally missed the fact that it was friday last night, and that therefore we should now move on to...

EPISODE 3

IKSE!!!!! (let's go!!) [i hope...]

Is it my imagination or, is that new background music for the opening narration, with the launch of the Megaroad 1? I'm sure of it - yes, the BGM DOES change - of this I'm sure...I think this is it. Now it's this uplifting Macross Plus music in the background instead of Fire Bomber or whatever they were using previous. I much prefer this uplifting sombre refrain...

A brief re-cap of Episode 2....hey everybody....Gamlin sure is annoying with his screaming...

Ok - and here we go!

Bassara is reminiscing about how he failed - because twice now the enemy wouldn't listen to his music...why?

"WHAT SOUND DO I NEED TO REACH INTO THEIR HEARTS?"

The key question.

Nice ass shot of Mylene running up the stairs

And she's banging on the DOOR AGAIN!! AAAH!!

What an annoying little girl!

Now this is going to be the episode where Bassara mixes it up with Queen and King - this is a great episode because it shows just what Bassara is struggling over.

His question "what sound do I need to reach their hearts" is shown in this episode to be just as pertinent to HUMANS as it is to the mysterious enemy, since he does have to use his fists...

Anyways - it's nice how Myelene uses annoying screaming mixed with blackmail to force Bassara's hand, while Ray always opts for persuasion...

Well...not always...he is driving the "get away" car with the VF-19 Kai

So...oishi juice! Now it's juice and not CORA! on the M7

Oh - and this is the episode where we get the lovely interview between Max and Millia where they chew into eachother as Mayor and Captain

Poor interview lady is totally helpless

And it makes for good background to what Bassara considers the REAL problem.

After all - look - here's Max and Millia arguing about dealing with the myseterious attacks, and meanwhile, Bassara knows that neither the military nor the political approach really matter - what counts is finding a sound that will reach their hearts...

Now...am I wrong or is it that ONE band is called Queens and Kings while the other is called Mosaic?

In any case - they're going to go at it in a second, just like Milia and Max...

Lots of conflicts going on, eh? It keeps bringing Boldoza's words that the universe is full of conflict - kind of a bland statement of fact that immediately justifies war as a natural way of life - as totally normal.

Mosaic is about to start kicking King and Queen as and vice versa when suddenly...

Bassara shows up and starts singing!

And that's a WONDERFUL scene - it shows that his goal pertains to all living things, humans and aliens - doesn't matter he believes his song is universal.

Meanwhile, on the Protodevilinship ... we need to remember that we STILL DON'T KNOW THESE ARE PROTODEVILIN - in fact, we don't know ANYTHING about them.

All we know is that Gigil seems restless with Lord Gelprenich's tactics - nothing more than that.

Here we also get a sign of Akiko's faith in Fire Bomber - with Bassara late, she moves Fire Bomber to the BEST slot - namely the last performance...

Meanwhile, Bassara is singing and dodging King, Queens and Mosaic in the flesh -

and then Mylene gets socked when she come sto get him.

And only when the King and Queen guys attack Mylene, does Bassara reveal that he is the SON OF KAIFUN!!

KAIFUN THE NINJA FIGHTER!!

Although - he's not as good as Kaifun, who managed to use Chinese kung-fu without hurting people...Poor Bassara actually busted them up

Anyways - after being rescued from an all out brawl by Rey, Bassara remains pissed at Mylene for interfering.

There's always somebody getting in his way.

Poor guy.

Not only does nobody listen to his song, not only do they keep bothering him, but they keep getting in his way too.. he can never finish a a song without either Mylene OR Gamlin getting in his way.

Man - Max has such bad taste in women. Millia is bland and his bridge bunnies are ALSO bland. Not saying they're not hot - they're just not very characteristic.

Anyways, here comes Gigil...and here comes Fire Bomber!

I like this concert scene because Bassara is singing and people are talking and then his competitors scream YOU SUCK!! etc

It's really a sad scene - and he's just obliviously singing...

But actually - he's NOT totally oblivious.

And this is what people DON'T SEE.

Namely - look guys - if Bassara was so oblivious he wouldn't care so much whether his music reaches people's hearts. But his first words in this episode, and in fact the whole THRUST of this episode is just how Basara is sad that he can't get through to people and wonders what sound he's missing.

In fact- I would venture to say that he was working on My Soul for You with those very thoughts in mind.

Now Gep...Gigil's attack starts and Bassara is off.

And just as Diamond force manages to surround Gigil - HERE COMES BASSARA TO SAVE HIS LIFE (probably what the angry Gamlin is thinking here).

Meanwhile, the audience is watching and impressed.

And Gamlin gets his first director order to leave Bassara alone - which will serve to frustrate him in the future as he begins to understand that the military is protecting Bassara in the sense that they're not allowed to interfere with him.

Gepelirich is watching Bassara and gets the report that the Vampires she sent to infiltrate the city have done so - so she orders her troops to leave.

Poor Gigil suddenly realizes he's been used as a pawn - a worthless pawn.

He's such a little starscream at this point in the show

"HE'S SO UNCOOL BUT I FEEL LIKE TURNING MYSELF INSIDE OUT" says one of the audience members of Bassara's actions - again reflecting the annoyance that peope have with him...plus the irresistability.

AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT SCENE NOW:

Bassara is dissapointed that his songs didn't work - again.

And yet the audience is clapping!

And then a couple of girls say he's cool and that they'll always come to his concert!

So Bassara succeeded in touching somebody's heart!

And therefore he is energized with confidence again.

A very nice arc that comes to completion.

The episode starts with the hero feeling sad that his music doesn't get through to the enemy. Then he discovers that it doesn't exactly work on people either. Nobody likes his music. He keeps getting interrupted, yelled at, pushed around and belittled.

But then in the end a couple of people clap and are super enthusiastic about his songs.

And this gives Bassara the power to go on.

SO SEE - HE'S TOTALLY NOT OBLIVIOUS!! Stereotype SHOT DOWN. Bassara CARES what people think about him - he care deeply. And he needs people's acceptance to move on!

Pete

Edited November 21, 2009 by VFTF1

[Gubaba]

Episode 3: Fire Scramble

First Appearances: Akiko Hojo

Eyecatches: Gamlin / Mylene

Songs played (besides OP/ED): Soko ni Aru no ga Mirai Dakara; Totsugeki Loveheart (a capella); My Soul for You; Planet Dance (drums only)

I haven't read VFTF1's comments yet; and yet again, I watched the episode raw. I noticed that the dialogue is getting a little more involved, because I understood less than I had the previous two episodes.

Anyway, when I first watched this episode, I found myself slightly annoyed by the rather predictable plot line here: Basara pisses off some people, but then sways them through his music (or the fact that he's playing in while flying in the middle of a battle).

This time 'round (this is probably the fifth or sixth time I've watched it), I still find it contrived.

We get the start of the "Success-oriented Mylene vs. Spontaneous Basara" dynamic that continues through the show - and pisses off a lot of people who already dislike Basara. I'm not sure WHY it's such a bothersome point, though. Basara doesn't really care about success, or fame, or business. I don't see why there's anything wrong with that.

But, of course, we also get one of Basara's most infuriating moments: when he beats up the guys and then blames Mylene for making him hit them. I think it's pretty clear that the audiences sympathies are meant to be with Mylene here, but still...it's an odd scene.

The battle scene is already reusing footage from the previous episodes, and playing a ballad kind of sucks most of the thrill out of it, although it's nice to see that Basara is trying something musically different to try to get through to the aliens. But still, the battle seems to be there solely to get the Queen & King and Mosaic Band fans to like Basara. It feels tacked-on to me.

This episode DOES however, have one of my all-time favorite throw-away gags, with the couple cornered by the juice machines.

So...not a bad episode by any stretch, but not a great episode, either. It's at this point, I believe, that anyone expecting another SDFM or Macross Plus will start to get a REAL sinking feeling.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Gubaba

[akt_m]

Saw a piece of Episode 11, i ask why they released 2 cds with Mylene voice actress, both sucks. Chie Kajiura singing "Watashi no Karewa Pairoto" is so much better. Too bad they didn't release it!!! Did anyone had the trouble to extract the music?? don't know how are the newer DVDs, if they are 5.1 maybe there is a chance to extract the music while removing Basara lines.

[David Hingtgen]

Really, after the first couple eps, most could be skipped until the early 20's, then much of the 30's could be skipped, then watch the 40's. It'd have been a much better series if they tossed the many filler eps, and just made it a single season with the same storyline.

[Gubaba]

Really, after the first couple eps, most could be skipped until the early 20's, then much of the 30's could be skipped, then watch the 40's. It'd have been a much better series if they tossed the many filler eps, and just made it a single season with the same storyline.

Are you watching it along with us? I believe it's part of VFTF1's thesis that there's less filler than most people remember...

[David Hingtgen]

No, but I rewatched almost all of it a few months ago, as I hadn't seen it since the very first time with old, poor-quality copies.

I found the opposite--it was more filler than I remembered. Entire episodes had "disappeared" from my memory as there was basically nothing notable.

(and I like M7 more than most of the people here AFAIK, and am a big Mylene fan)

[VF5SS]

I love those early episodes. Lots of fun stuff happens in each one and some cool mecha scenes inside or near City 7.

[VFTF1]

I'll be back in a few hours to address all these various points

I will say however that a girl I met at an anime convention in October turns out to also be watching Macross 7 for the first time and she loves it She even text messages me with pictures of Bassara, dreams of singing in Fire Bomber, loves their music and really really loves each and every consecutive episode and Bassara is like totally her hero

So at least all is not lost!

I'll be back later today to address everybody's concerns!

Thanks for taking part! BOMBA!

Pete

[shiroth]

I recently rewatched/marathoned the series a couple of weeks ago, and there is quite a large collection of filler episodes placed quite a bit in the series. Personally i wouldn't call them filler episodes, because pretty much each of those episodes includes some character growth, and if not that, the plot is sometimes moved forward just a tiny bit. Still, i loved those episodes quite a bit, and find them very enjoyable. It's just more time with this fantastic cast, and that's what i want at the end of the day.

Edited November 22, 2009 by shiroth

[VFTF1]

Ok, so here goes:

I found myself slightly annoyed by the rather predictable plot line here: Basara pisses off some people, but then sways them through his music (or the fact that he's playing in while flying in the middle of a battle).

That's a tangent in the main plot line - the main plot line is Bassara's dissapointment with himself because he can't find a sound that gets through to the hearts of the Other (aka enemies and humans alike). This episode is about Bassara's continuing quest for that sound.

I'm not sure WHY it's such a bothersome point, though. Basara doesn't really care about success, or fame, or business. I don't see why there's anything wrong with that.

This is a misperception.

Bassara DOES care about success and fame and business. He just happens to define success diferently - for him - success is finding a sound that moves peoples' hearts. He's very happy to move the hearts of the people at Super Nova (the concert that they took part in during this episode). He is not at all displeased at his success, nor does he mind the good business that this will bring for Fre Bomber.

The key difference between Mylene and Bassara is that Mylene thinks that you need something OTHER THAN good music to succeed as a band. Bassara believes the key lies in finding the right sound.

Bassara does NOT sit around mumbling "screw them - people won't listen to my song and I don't care they can all get wet."

No.

Bassara is actively shown to be working on new material after discovering that Planet Dance didn't get through to anybody. The ONLY reason he agrees to come to Super Nova (besides being slightly strong armed since they took his Valkyrie) is because Rey hands him the music that they'll sing during Super Nova and it turns out to be the song Bassara was working on.

Where did Rey get it?

Remember in episode 2 when Bassara goes to sing to the enemy, Rey sits down, takes Bassara's guitar, and plays the notes Bassara had written to my soul for you and says "this is pretty good"

Rey probably decided then that they'd use the song in their next concert.

In any event - it's totally not true that Bassara doesn't care about success, and the argument between him and Mylene is one of means, not ends. Mylene believes you need to worry about marketing, meeting the right people, getting invited to the right shows, booking the right concerts...Bassara meanwhile believes with all his heart that he can find music so amazing that it'll move people's hearts without having to go through all the hoopla.

If I can use an analogy:

Remember episode 5 of Macross Frontier - when Ranka sang in Folmo she, unlike the Zentran singing by the stairs, moved people's hearts. Bassara doesn't have that power here - not yet at least.

Even at the end of the episode - notice how it's not like there's a throng of thousands cheering him on. There's like 5 people there clapping - everybody else evacuated!

People panicked - very few people stayed to listen to his song. Those that stayed became his fans - but he only won over a couple of folks. That was enough to satisfy him and give him motivation to continue.

If NO BODY had stayed he would have been down in the dumps. He came out of the VF-19 Kai visibly depressed at his failure. And Rey had to point out that some people stuck around and were now giving him an ovation, and THEN those people had to specifically tell him they were moved by his music.

So totally not true about Bassara not caring. That's a complete fabrication - it's one of the anti-M7 talking points that has developed into a stereotype that feeds on itself and constantly polarizes fans of Macross - and it diminishes even Bassara's supporters, because they have to be like "yeah, he doesn't care about people - but his song is great!" Bassara totally cares.

Again - look at the title of his song. "My Soul for You." I mean - how much more blatant can it be that Bassara wants to offer himself to save people?

But, of course, we also get one of Basara's most infuriating moments: when he beats up the guys and then blames Mylene for making him hit them. I think it's pretty clear that the audiences sympathies are meant to be with Mylene here, but still...it's an odd scene.

This I totally don't understand.

It IS Mylene's fault for making him hit them. Just like in a couple of episodes it'll all be Gamlin's fault for making Bassara use his missiles. Bassara doesn't mind when aliens are shooting at him. Bassara doesn't mind when Kings and Queens are trying to beat him up - he sings in the hope that his singing will stop the violence.

What Bassara DOES mind is when someone else is in danger.

Mylene got in his way. She should have left him alone and let him sing.

As things stand - she keeps barging into his room, banging on his door, pestering him, and getting in his way.

But still, the battle seems to be there solely to get the Queen & King and Mosaic Band fans to like Basara. It feels tacked-on to me.

The battle takes place because Gepelrich wanted the Macross 7 infiltrated by vampires.

The reason WHY comes up later - it's because of her Yume.

It's not a tacked on battle. It's not just there so Bassara can sing. The enemy are on a specific mission - one that we don't fully understand, but we do know something went down - namely that City 7 was infilrated.

So it's not just a "tacked on" battle - that's like saying that battles in SDFM TV were all tacked on just so the heros can face some danger. In a sense, ok - yes. Fine. True - but then again, they weren't pointless, they pushed the plot along and were usually strategically motivated or had some other reason behind them. Same here.

As for getting Kings and Queens to like him "Bassara is so uncool" is not exactly a statement of extatic love. They are amazed by what he DOES...so I would say the learn to respect him... But they don't explicitly love him...

It's at this point, I believe, that anyone expecting another SDFM or Macross Plus will start to get a REAL sinking feeling.

Um...

But this sentence seems to stylistically equate SDFM and Macross Plus. I mean, let's face it, Macross Plus could have given a sinking feeling to people expecting "another SDFM" - but it had its' own unique charm.

As for SDFM itself... I would say that Macross 7 is on par. I mean the plot develops at an equally slow pace as in SDFM TV.

Heck - in the next episode, we even get parallels to Hikaru and Minmey who, towards the beginning of SDFM got stuck and lost in Macross together. Well, Bassara and Mylene end up the same way...

There's plenty of homages in Macross 7 actually, but the series is also fresh and new enough that it's of course not "merely" an homage in any way...

But I'm not sure why people would get a sinking feeling - I totally don't understand it. Unless of course it's because they ignore 90% of the dialogue and plot and compel themselves to believe that this episode is not different from the last two, and that all that ever happens is that aliens show up, Bassara sings to them, and Bassara and Mylene yell at eachother.

But clearly that's not the case.

It'd have been a much better series if they tossed the many filler eps, and just made it a single season with the same storyline.

I challenge anyone to name one episode of Macross 7 that is truely filler and that does not contain something essential to the plot and something unique and interesting that takes place only in that episode.

I mean - I do agree that the large amount of epsiodes are kind of Soap Operatic - but that doesn't mean they're without substance.

I love those early episodes. Lots of fun stuff happens in each one and some cool mecha scenes inside or near City 7.

Agreed.

And so far - there have been no specifics presented to uphold the contrary position that the episodes are filler, all the same and basically disposable.

Although I'll grant Gubaba tried - but even he admited that his impression was due to him watching it RAW - aka not getting all of the dialogue.

Well - guess what? When I tried watching "an episode" of Macross 7 before I'd ever seen the series - I had the same IMPRESSION. I clicked an episode on Youtube and it was just Bassara in his red Valkyrie singing, some kind of rainbow coming out of it, and some monster on the recieving end going "aaarrgggpplllflffsfsihg!!"

And it seemed to me that just about every Youtube clip I saw was like that.

But when you sit down and actually DO watch the series - as we are doing here - and don't marathon your way through it - then you see distinctions in each episode.

there is quite a large collection of filler episodes placed quite a bit in the series. Personally i wouldn't call them filler episodes, because pretty much each of those episodes includes some character growth, and if not that, the plot is sometimes moved forward just a tiny bit. Still, i loved those episodes quite a bit, and find them very enjoyable. It's just more time with this fantastic cast, and that's what i want at the end of the day.

Agreed

So if you personally wouldn't call them filler episodes - then don't!

Your reasons for not calling them that are, IMO, valid.

Anyways - someone go ahead and point out a "filler" episode when we get to it - because I have yet to see one.

Pete

[Uxi]

Up to 90GB on the torrent. Should have this ready by next week. Can you name any SPECIFIC episodes you think are completely superfluous, David?

[David Hingtgen]

I'll try to recall/revisit some this week and see if I can find a "perfect example".

Still, about the whole "at least something happens/character growth/small plot point" every ep comment--yes, but the rate is absymal. Many eps seem to be 50% reycled footage, with about 1 sentence of new plot or character growth. You could chop out groups of episodes, take the 90 secs of "important" stuff from them all, and make 1 good ep out of the bits.

It is darn near "annoying" to watch a half-hour ep to only get a moment of "new" stuff about a character or the plot.

[Uxi]

There definitely is, but I rewatched discs 1 and 2 of my AnimEGO SDF:M this weekend and there's an awful lot of recycled footage there, too. I think part of the point of the early going in M7 is to hide important details amongst the mundane without making it obvious like some serial shows do.

[VFTF1]

Still, about the whole "at least something happens/character growth/small plot point" every ep comment--yes, but the rate is absymal. Many eps seem to be 50% reycled footage, with about 1 sentence of new plot or character growth. You could chop out groups of episodes, take the 90 secs of "important" stuff from them all, and make 1 good ep out of the bits.

It is darn near "annoying" to watch a half-hour ep to only get a moment of "new" stuff about a character or the plot.

Well - to me this is a vague generalization, and it is easy to make if someone hasn't watched the series in a long time AND if someone marathoned the whole thing. I remembered when I marathoned M7, it all became one long jumble to me too. Now, I actually did not ever feel bored with any episode, but I do admit to not remembering at all what set them apart from eachother, because when you watch them one after the other, they do tend to melt into eachother, since actually the plot progresses with pretty rapid speed (but then again, so does Macross Frontier - in episode 4, we end the episode thinking that Ranka is just going to continue being a waitress with some dreams about singing.... by episode 5 we know she's on her way to stardom...but then we have a lull where she has trouble getting gigs and ends up advertising carrots...) - maybe the way they did it was more memorable. I admit that it's really hard to remember all the details in M7.

But that's why this thread is dedicated to going episode by episode - and I think that it's been shown that the first three episodes are not filler. Now we move in three days to episode 4 - the Vampire episode...

anyways - if anybody has more to offer than vague generalization about filler - please do. Although be warned - if it's a latter episode - then we'll get to it in due course - that is - if someone says "I think episode 9 is total filler" - then I suggest stating all the reasons, but maybe let's wait to address the opinion until we get there

Hopefully nobody is going to come out and write "episode 29 is filler" because we're only on 3, and it'll take a while to get there But whatever - just make the case/argument and we'll go from there

Pete

Edited November 23, 2009 by VFTF1

[Uxi]

Yeah, I think the pacing of a week or so per episode, when you don't know what's going to happen next and can't wait for the next episode gives M7's progress a different perspective. The main plot point (the Varauta and Geperenich's plan for the Spiritia Farm) make it obvious in hindsight, but going through the first time it's not nearly so obvious.

[VF5SS]

I find you can watch up to the four episodes a day provided you take a break in between. This really isn't that unique to Macross 7. Trying to marathon any show is a bad idea because you aren't giving your brain time to process what you've seen. And really, Macross 7 isn't paced any differently than other year long mecha shows. I find it delightfully uncompressed.

[VFTF1]

I agree - with the sole exception of Gurren Lagann. That thing deserves to be marathoned. It is simply impossible NOT to go straight to the next episode. And the story actually flows much better if you watch it straight through than piecemiel.

The only excuse for not making it through all of Gurren Lagann in one sitting is heart failure or just plane passing out from exhaustion.

Anyways...still waiting for those example of "filler"

Meanwhile - if anybody actually has anything to add about Episode 3 - that's the episode we're technically "on" right now

Pete

[VF5SS]

Well there's a difference between filler and padding. Stock footage launch sequences and battles can be used to pad the episode a bit. But mostly they are used as transitions into a battle scene or something for characters to narrate over.

[VFTF1]

I agree. And to further answer my own question regarding filler, since no one else is stepping up the plate...

Let me venture another theory that builds on what VF25SS noted about stock-footage, and also what Gubaba earlier noted as the irritating fact that when Fire Bomber plays music...the animation doesn't really show them playing music very much. I think that part of the reason why we get the impression that it's all just repetitive and bland is because the animation sometimes falls short of the ambitions of the story. That is to say - I might be wrong about this, but in Macross Frontier, even if songs were repeated, I have the impression that the animation to the songs was always fresh. There was no stock footage of Ranka singing, and if there was then it was used so subtley that I missed it. Same with Sheryl. And what footage we did see was BRILLIANTLY choreographed and BEAUTIFULLY animated.

Can't say that about Macross 7. The animation in Macross 7 is closser to SDFM TV than it is to Macross Plus, DYRL or Macross Frontier - which is to say it's a bit slower in pace, and leaves more to the imagination. In terms of the music, this did not inhibit SDFM TV because Minmey sings slow rock. Smooth rock.

But Bassara, his music is head banging stuff - and yet the animation often times just fails to capture the rhythm of the music and indeed the use of stock footage when he sings, flies, fights etc tends to give you the impression that even if it's a different song - the movements are familiar. And maybe that's where the impression of filler comes from?

I'm not going to defend Macross 7 as the pinnacle of animation.

However, I do venture the opinion that it is a great story, and overall it is well presented. If we could watch SDFM TV without being unhinged by the limitations of animation from 1982 - I think we should try to apply the same standard to Macross 7? ..

Pete

[VF5SS]

You type too much.

Macross 7 has pretty good artwork and animation, which manages to be far more consistent than the original TV series. And its on equal footing to its contemporaries like G-Gundam. I don't even know why I have to keep repeating this. If anything, Macross 7 benefited greatly from being planned out rather than constantly fluctuating between episode count. You may like the chaotic production aspect of the other two TV series, but don't pretend Macross 7 looks like a bad episode out of a '82 anime.

[shiroth]

I love the Basara development in episode three. It's only been three episodes, though for Barara's he's waiting so long for someone to understand his music. It may not be the target he was aiming at, though for him he's pleased with it either way. It's this episode that opens up the path for Fire Bomber.

& my quote of the episode is:

Next week, vampires!

[VFTF1]

Short and sweet

I figured it might be good to complement Shiroth's Quotes/Screen caps with another category. So...starting now, not only will Shiroth select the Quote of the Episode, but I'll happily chip in and select:

MYLENE BUTT-SHOT OF THE EPISODE:

I wonder what fantastic butt shots episode 4 will bring us?

Pete

[Gubaba]

This is a misperception.

Bassara DOES care about success and fame and business. He just happens to define success diferently - for him - success is finding a sound that moves peoples' hearts. He's very happy to move the hearts of the people at Super Nova (the concert that they took part in during this episode). He is not at all displeased at his success, nor does he mind the good business that this will bring for Fre Bomber.

The key difference between Mylene and Bassara is that Mylene thinks that you need something OTHER THAN good music to succeed as a band. Bassara believes the key lies in finding the right sound.

Bassara does NOT sit around mumbling "screw them - people won't listen to my song and I don't care they can all get wet."

No.

Bassara is actively shown to be working on new material after discovering that Planet Dance didn't get through to anybody. The ONLY reason he agrees to come to Super Nova (besides being slightly strong armed since they took his Valkyrie) is because Rey hands him the music that they'll sing during Super Nova and it turns out to be the song Bassara was working on.

Where did Rey get it?

Remember in episode 2 when Bassara goes to sing to the enemy, Rey sits down, takes Bassara's guitar, and plays the notes Bassara had written to my soul for you and says "this is pretty good"

Rey probably decided then that they'd use the song in their next concert.

In any event - it's totally not true that Bassara doesn't care about success, and the argument between him and Mylene is one of means, not ends. Mylene believes you need to worry about marketing, meeting the right people, getting invited to the right shows, booking the right concerts...Bassara meanwhile believes with all his heart that he can find music so amazing that it'll move people's hearts without having to go through all the hoopla.

I guess we need to define "success," then...because I agree with you, but Basara's success is different from Mylene's success.

Mylene at this point seems to want a career; getting better gigs that will expose Fire Bomber's music to as many people as possible (and industry types as well), and making sure everybody (i.e. Basara) shows up to those gigs on time. She thinks Basara's priorities are out of whack...and they ARE, if the goal is to have a successful, professional band.

Basara's success is to get through to people. I think he would rather play for one person who "gets it" than have his albums bought by millions of people who don't. But he also chafes at the responsibility that comes with being popular: you have to be reliable, you have to be on-time, and you have to perform at your best even when you don't feel like it.

But still...so far in the series, he has shown up, he has made the effort, even if he has to be coerced. So it's a conflict, but not much of one thus far.

(Oh, and VFTF1, I think you misunderstood one bit about the other bands. That wasn't Queen & King and the Mosaic Band that Basara got in a fight with, they were merely FANS of Queen & King and the Mosaic Band. )

And so far - there have been no specifics presented to uphold the contrary position that the episodes are filler, all the same and basically disposable.

Although I'll grant Gubaba tried - but even he admited that his impression was due to him watching it RAW - aka not getting all of the dialogue.

Enh, it's not much of a problem. I've seen the show several times before (most recently about a year ago), and the dialogue really isn't very difficult. If there's anything that I don't recall and which confuses me, I'll check the fansubs.

[VFTF1]

I guess we need to define "success," then...because I agree with you, but Basara's success is different from Mylene's success.

Mylene at this point seems to want a career; getting better gigs that will expose Fire Bomber's music to as many people as possible (and industry types as well), and making sure everybody (i.e. Basara) shows up to those gigs on time. She thinks Basara's priorities are out of whack...and they ARE, if the goal is to have a successful, professional band.

Actually - not quite, insofar as Mylene's definition of success is concerned. It's FAR more complex than that, although we won't see it until a couple of episodes later.

But, I would like to remind you that when Mylene is doing the singing, she's just as "egotistical" and uppity as Bassara about it, and - she quits the band over it.

Rey even tells Bassara to "go get her back!" and Bassara ends up having to chase after her to try to recover her.

See - my theory is that actually, Mylene and Bassara have ARTISTIC differences; not only differences stemming from art vs. professionalism.

And this is another stereotype that is just taken for granted - but in fact, Mylene does lead vocals on a number of moving beautiful songs and she has her own style. And she's pretty dedicated to it.

A final point - we need to factor in that artists aren't always rational insofar as their creativity is concerned. Music is, after all, the burning heart of passion, not the cool head of reason.

In any event - to me it's all more reasons why this show is more complex and mature than people give it credit for.

Pete

[Agent ONE]

...

6. Agent One you are welcome to watch with us and tell us why it all stinks This generally goes for all anti-M7 people. This is your chance to relive the pain episode by episode and share it with us. Tell us what rubs you the wrong way.

...

If you had me watch M7 again, my rage would damage the fabric of space and time. I'm talkin Old Testament real wrath of God type stuff... Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

[VFTF1]

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Ghostbusters references are always welcome

Besides, you'd only need to watch 1 episode a week And just look at how buff Bassara is It's obvious he works out just like you (and me thanks to your inspiration for that matter)

However - even if it led to mass hysteria - I would welcome it After all, a thread without nay-sayers is no fun!

Pete

[Marzan]

Episode 3 is the first time we hear My Soul for You isn't it??

Favourite Macross song ever. It's so good that they had to use it in Macross Frontier too! So good that the Mosaic fans have no choice but to say:

"Nekki Basara is serious... Seriously whacked!"

[VFTF1]

Well, technically Bassara is working on it already in episode 2, but I guess you can generally say so

Personally, I like Submarine Street better It has more fun in it...

oh...on that note...

You know what we should start thinking about? ---> this: it CAN'T be coincidence what songs Bassara sings and when he sings them. In episode 1, he's singing Planet Dance, which is kind of a funky dance tune. He wants the enemy to party - he wants to show them - hey guys! Stop shooting and start dancing! It's fun!

Having failed, he starts work on a new song. And he gets pestered - what are you doing? Why are you doing this? Why do you sing to the enemy in battle?

And his new song - My Soul For You - is kind of a melancholic and sombre answer to this question.

It's actually a total 360 change in singing tactics - it's also very emo. It's like ...WHAT?! YOU WON'T DANCE AND GROVE WITH ME!? FINE! THEN TAKE MY SOUL!!!!!!!

Bassara, I venture to say, is a bit annoyed at his detractors and so he tries to pour his heart out to them in My Soul for You.

That doesn't work on many people - except some girls and (thanks for noting it Gubaba) FANS of Kings/Queens and Mosaic.

Now... this is good. Let's keep track of what songs Bassara sings, when he sings them, and what circumstances cause him to think them up.

Certainly I think we can say that a bit of frustration mixed with despair led to the switch from Planet Dance to My Soul For You

?

Pete

[Jasonc]

Seeing Akiko is a welcomed portion of the series. She's one of my favorite women for the series,,, at least until another character by the name of Rex comes in a bit.