HG and Robotech Debates

[taksraven]

With some of the sentiments floating around here at times I am surprised that we don't have Mospeada and Southern Cross fans screaming "DEATH THE THE MACROSS PURISTS!!" as well as the RT fans.

Taksraven

[einsamsoldat]

Aww but he wants us to care! He wants to feel special ^__^

Attention seeking hoe ?

[VFTF1]

Yeah - I just read that..good job Gubaba.

Although I didn't know you were a son of a hoe. I had you pegged as a son of a rake, a shovel maybe - but a hoe?

Hm - I'm going to have to reconsider whether or not admiring you is an obserd proposition now...

Sigh...

This is bad for the Robtoech fandom. It's like...it's like...

Here in Poland we have a term we use for certain Transformers fans - we call them "Children of Cybertron."

A "Child of Cybertron" is basically a 5 year old kid with access to the internet, whose parents buy him the latest TFs, and who has a digital camera. He then posts reviews of his toys on youtube.

These reviews are invariably ridiculous and funny. Of course, no one can venomously blame a 5 year old for being 5 - but it's still kind of funny to watch as these kids usually can't even transform the toy they're reviewing properly... They also like signing up to message boards and using bad grammar, no punctuation, and totally misspelling words...

This guy you had a discussion with... seems to be of the same mould.

Poor Harmony Gold.

Their fans are like their Masterpiece Veritechs ....

Pete

[Bri]

With some of the sentiments floating around here at times I am surprised that we don't have Mospeada and Southern Cross fans screaming "DEATH THE THE MACROSS PURISTS!!" as well as the RT fans.

Taksraven

Personally I love SDC Southern Cross, but Macek butchered it beyond recognition so I can't really blame the fans who think it's bad based on what they saw in RT or heard from people who saw RT. Yet again the root of all evil can be traced back to HG

[Protoculture]

With some of the sentiments floating around here at times I am surprised that we don't have Mospeada and Southern Cross fans screaming "DEATH THE THE MACROSS PURISTS!!" as well as the RT fans. tongue.gif wink.gif

Taksraven

Personally I love SDC Southern Cross, but Macek butchered it beyond recognition so I can't really blame the fans who think it's bad based on what they saw in RT or heard from people who saw RT.

Let's give credit where credits are due. HG did good by introducing SDC Southern Cross & GC Mospeada as part of RT line-ups. If not, people don't even give a damn about a failed mecha with tanks series that got cancelled due to low ratings & a mediocre transforming bike series that spawned an OAV.

Yet again the root of all evil can be traced back to HG

Actually, chalked that up to dollar & yen, & obviously the greedy capitalistic good ole Uncle Sam.

[Protoculture]

BTW, I think I just bashed DougBendo on RTX for being obnoxious ignorant sucker that he is. I kinda go up in flames as he accused me full of $#it by trying to defend Seto's view reagrding Gundam / Macross / anime in general superiority over his simplistic views in his defend over RT.

Or is it because when he accused me as a Macross fanboy when I am actually a hardcore RT purist.

Guess I went overboard hammering him on the status of Macross over Robotech, Gundam over everything, I even went upstaging him that RT Purist know better than an ignorant whine-boy who claimed himself the sole defender of the entire RT franchise.

........ Awwww crap, I've been picking bad habits from yer guys bashing us Robotechies eversince I joined MW & lurked here for 6 years.

[Bri]

Let's give credit where credits are due. HG did good by introducing SDC Southern Cross & GC Mospeada as part of RT line-ups. If not, people don't even give a damn about a failed mecha with tanks series that got cancelled due to low ratings & a mediocre transforming bike series that spawned an OAV.

That's the standard Pavlov reaction to justify the inclusion of other anime in RT and not relevant from the perspective of fans of the original works. Yes, SDC SC is an obscure mecha show from the 80s and now it remains an obscure show, with a bad reputation amongst western mecha fans due to being chopped up and included in another show... Lack of popularity is no excuse for destroying the integrity of the original work.

Actually, chalked that up to dollar & yen, & obviously the greedy capitalistic good ole Uncle Sam.

Err, first of all no politics on MW and second what does the exchange rate have anything to do with Macek's editing hurting peoples perception of SDCSC?

[Protoculture]

Err, first of all no politics on MW and second what does the exchange rate have anything to do with Macek's editing hurting peoples perception of SDCSC?

Capitalistic tendencies to make more money aka profit at others expense. Classic case, Tatsunoko & HG teamed up and trying to monopolize on the SDF Macross over BW in regards to worldwide distribution.

Lack of popularity is no excuse for destroying the integrity of the original work.

Integrity got shoved in the name of making a profit.

Not trying to argue here regarding politics, but that is how real life works, however sucks that it may be. Case in point, majority of Macross fans in Western world are infuriated over HG 'butchered' product over the original animes, we in Asia couldn't care less & don't even give a rat's ass over Macross vs RT thingies.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Protoculture

[VFTF1]

Let's give credit where credits are due. HG did good by introducing SDC Southern Cross & GC Mospeada as part of RT line-ups. If not, people don't even give a damn about a failed mecha with tanks series that got cancelled due to low ratings & a mediocre transforming bike series that spawned an OAV.

Huh?

Yes they would. They would thanks to the internet - it's this thing that has given people the opportunity to experience tons of shows and anime from decades past that they never would have found in video rental stores and would have never been able to find time to watch on tv - assuming they even got re-run on TV...

This assumption that HG somehow "saved" Mospedea and Southern Cross is erroneous.

If anything -HG did what it could to bring anime in general to the West - and for that I'll give them credit. Back then no one could predict what would happen with the internet etc. They saw some cool anime and wanted to bring it to western audiences. Syndicates said "we need more episodes" - they were on a tight budget and time was of the essence (lots of competition from other cartoons and the fear that if you missed your chance, then the "fad" would pass).

I really understand all of this and appreciate the effort.

But right now it's gotten counterproductive. They are not bringing anime to America - they are hindering anime culture in America.

And no - they didn't save Mospedea and Southerncross from obscurity. If anything - Robotech only lends to the confusion and blurs the originals from seeing the light of day.

BTW, I think I just bashed DougBendo on RTX for being obnoxious ignorant sucker that he is. I kinda go up in flames as he accused me full of $#it by trying to defend Seto's view reagrding Gundam / Macross / anime in general superiority over his simplistic views in his defend over RT.

Or is it because when he accused me as a Macross fanboy when I am actually a hardcore RT purist.

Guess I went overboard hammering him on the status of Macross over Robotech, Gundam over everything, I even went upstaging him that RT Purist know better than an ignorant whine-boy who claimed himself the sole defender of the entire RT franchise.

As Gubaba demonstrarted a few posts back in his "discussion" with Pizza the Hut - "winning" in an argument with one of those guys is NOT worthy of a Nobel Prize, nor does it require much IQ or knowledge of anime or even the subject matter.

It seems that it's enough that you can spell basic words correctly, and know the Alphabet song from Sesame Street.

Pete

[Bri]

If anything -HG did what it could to bring anime in general to the West - and for that I'll give them credit. Back then no one could predict what would happen with the internet etc. They saw some cool anime and wanted to bring it to western audiences. Syndicates said "we need more episodes" - they were on a tight budget and time was of the essence (lots of competition from other cartoons and the fear that if you missed your chance, then the "fad" would pass).

I really understand all of this and appreciate the effort.

I'm not sure of HG did what it could. I can't help but think that it was despite their creative copy/pasting that anime got popular. We always get the excuse that it was neccesary for syndication to change the source material into one big storyline. However nearly every cartoon in those days was episodice in nature so why was Robotech the exception? HG could easily have just brought over the Super Dimension block of Macross Southern Cross and Orguss and pitched them under the Super Dimension brand name. Maybe Maceks ego wrote checks his talent couldn't cash.

[Protoculture]

Yes they would. They would thanks to the internet - it's this thing that has given people the opportunity to experience tons of shows and anime from decades past that they never would have found in video rental stores and would have never been able to find time to watch on tv - assuming they even got re-run on TV...

I'm sorry VTF, let's face it, there's tons more animes with mecha porn that beats Southern Cross / Mospeada hands down. VOTOMS, Orguss, etc .. Sure, the Internet is golden archive, but without RT, people won't be bothered to even googled what SDCSC & GCM is all about apart some niche fandom.

Mospeada only have re-runs in Malaysia, in fact three times, once in 1980s, once in late 1990s & once back in early 2000s. But that's it as Gundam Wing / Seed / SEED Destiny madness practically swept all mecha series under the rug. Macross do not ever registered on the terrestrial TV radar blip in South East Asia, but certainly a runaway hit in DVD market thanks to Macross Frontier. Southern Cross ... don't ever go there, it is an unknown entity apart from that '1980's English show about robot with giants, ain't it?' .

This assumption that HG somehow "saved" Mospedea and Southern Cross is erroneous.

We can always agreed to disagree. In literal sense of the word, HG did saved SDC SC & GCM for its own means. Even if it means HG butchered 'em so that they can sell Macross in the states on HG's term.

We may cry foul, but hey, it had already happen. Besides, nowadays with so many animes lying around, one cannot be bothered to even checked on RT, there's the Gundam madness, Naruto & Bleach groupies that overshadowed even Macrossies.

But right now it's gotten counterproductive. They are not bringing anime to America - they are hindering anime culture in America.

That is erroneous as well. With anime conventions blossomed in North America, active anime fansub communities, American anime industry reaching its peak, free anime via Youtube / torrent sites, Westerners embracing cos-play ... No, HG cannot do squat apart blocking Macross sequels. In the age where people can import Macross DVD straight from Japan & HK with just a tap of a mouse, or downloading Macross for free in its entirety from torrent sites, HG 'counterproductive' actions is null.

MW has proven despite HG actions, Macross tsunami hit the Western anime fans hard!

As Gubaba demonstrarted a few posts back in his "discussion" with Pizza the Hut - "winning" in an argument with one of those guys is NOT worthy of a Nobel Prize, nor does it require much IQ or knowledge of anime or even the subject matter.

Yeah, but in a perverted sense of personal victory, it kinda feels like how a Macross fan feels (gloating in the inside) after successfully cowed an ignorant RT punk.

It seems that it's enough that you can spell basic words correctly, and know the Alphabet song from Sesame Street.

Either that is an insult or a praise, I can't be too sure. However, given that I can speak excellent Malay, mastered atleast 7 Malay dialects & can carry a few Borneoan (Dayaks) languages, quite well-versed in Indonesian language & still manage to use English as my 2nd language.

So pardon me on my grammatical mistakes or whatever, since even ordinary US expats that I know personally cannot even understand Ozzies or Queen's English properly.

BTW, I was motivated to learn English due to Robotech, not Macross. So RT did play a large role to my being able to even understand, let alone posted opinions or snippets on this very thread.

Besides, despite Macross influences in my life, it never egged me to make me bothered to learn Japanese language, since it practically useless in my region. English on the other hand, is different ballgame entirely.

[jenius]

I'm not sure of HG did what it could. I can't help but think that it was despite their creative copy/pasting that anime got popular. We always get the excuse that it was neccesary for syndication to change the source material into one big storyline. However nearly every cartoon in those days was episodice in nature so why was Robotech the exception? HG could easily have just brought over the Super Dimension block of Macross Southern Cross and Orguss and pitched them under the Super Dimension brand name. Maybe Maceks ego wrote checks his talent couldn't cash.

Make no mistake though, Robotech allowed Macek to cash an AWFUL lot of real checks. Robotech WAS a runaway hit in the 80s. It's not remembered for being the runaway hit that it was because it was so brief. One season isn't quite enough to build a legacy but at the time it was HUGE, warts and all.

We can say things like "My buddy says Macross was cool but the Masters sucked" but the whole thing got watched by LOTS of people. I also remember hating the Masters arch but I loved New Gen. Ya know, maybe it was watching the New Gen after the Masters that made it seem so much better to me. I'm gonna have to disagree with anyone who says SDCSC was good before Macek butchered it. Yes, it is BETTER in its original form but it's a LONG way from good. I do think HG deserves some credit if you're an SDCSC or Mospeada fan... in the pantheon of great mech shows those two would have vanished into obscurity long ago.

[VF5SS]

I do think HG deserves some credit if you're an SDCSC or Mospeada fan... in the pantheon of great mech shows those two would have vanished into obscurity long ago.

That's a little exaggeration. Considering the number of 70's and 80's mecha shows that have gotten new merchandise in the past decade, I don't see how a show like Mospeada or Southern Cross was have completely faded away. Especially Mospeada since it was a part of that prolific Imai model market. If anything, CM's Corporation would have still made their Mospeada toys because they will make a toy of anything. If they start to exhaust their list of potential licenses they could possibly take a stab at Southern Cross. They have already made strides towards Orguss toys and even produced new Dorvack toys. Yamato produced several toys based on the J9 series, including an expensive Braiger. They even did Danguard Ace and Groizer X. Maybe without Robotech, Tatsunoko would have made more strides to promoting Mospeada and Southern Cross instead of just letting people come to them.

[Funkenstein]

Weren't the reimported versions of Mospeada and Southern Cross what garnered those series more attention?

[Bri]

Make no mistake though, Robotech allowed Macek to cash an AWFUL lot of real checks. Robotech WAS a runaway hit in the 80s. It's not remembered for being the runaway hit that it was because it was so brief. One season isn't quite enough to build a legacy but at the time it was HUGE, warts and all.

We can say things like "My buddy says Macross was cool but the Masters sucked" but the whole thing got watched by LOTS of people. I also remember hating the Masters arch but I loved New Gen. Ya know, maybe it was watching the New Gen after the Masters that made it seem so much better to me. I'm gonna have to disagree with anyone who says SDCSC was good before Macek butchered it. Yes, it is BETTER in its original form but it's a LONG way from good. I do think HG deserves some credit if you're an SDCSC or Mospeada fan... in the pantheon of great mech shows those two would have vanished into obscurity long ago.

Robotech may have been a hit, but that was pretty much a given if you compare the quality of the source material against the other shows of its time on TV in the west. It is impossible to check in hindsight but I believe that the merger in to one show was unnessary and ultimately damaging for all three source shows. Again Macek just put out the message that syndication required 85 episodes but nowhere explained why he had to edit them into one story. Three shows under one banner could have worked just as well and maybe even better.

It also depends on how you experienced Robotech I guess, it was never broadcasted here so it's pretty much unknown even in anime circles. My love for mecha shows comes from the late 80s, shows like Saber Rider and Voltron on TV and OVA material like Patlabor and DTP (not to mention (Gundam) bootlegs from the local chinese stores). I only saw RT through videotapes that a friend had taped from British television. The real interest over here in mecha was sparked by Gundam Wing and Eva, that was the time when people started digging for material from the 80s.

As for SDCSC, it is not a great show, but I found it very enjoyable and apreciated more in time for it's different aproach which had elements that were ahead of it's time.

Mospeada is more popular that is true and if I would hazard a guess mainly due to it's vastly superior mecha designs( for the human side at least). Somehow the comparison between Southern Cross and The Next generation keeps getting brought up by the RT fans that prefer the next generation. Good for them, but SDCSC has no connection to Mospeada and should be judged on its own merrits and weaknesses.

Edited October 29, 2009 by Bri

[UN_MARINE]

i suppose HG helped in getting Mospeada & Southern Cross recognized, but i'm not convinced they would've disappeared into obscurity if HG wasn't involved. well...maybe Southern Cross, but Mospeada actually did well enough for itself that it has gotten attention from CM's, Megahouse & Beagle. i think we would be giving too much credit to HG by saying they had any influence in getting those companies to produce those toys.

and of course, they were only repackaged so the companies could sell them in the western market.

on the other hand, it was the other way around with the Toynami Legioss toys, which may have started the new interest in Mospeada.

[TheLoneWolf]

Again Macek just put out the message that syndication required 85 episodes but nowhere explained why he had to edit them into one story. Three shows under one banner could have worked just as well and maybe even better.

IIRC, Macek wrote that he tried releasing SDFM, SDCSC and GCM under the banner of Science Fiction Theater (I forgot the exact name) in order to keep each show seperate from each other, but some television stations didn't like the idea.

As for Robotech helping GCM and SDCSC get recognition, I don't think it helped at all in Japan since Robotech is practically nonexistant there. GCM has always had a small but devoted Japanese fanbase. As far as Western recognition goes, if GCM weren't included in Robotech, I think it would've been released by some other US company in 80's and would've achieved a similar amount of success that it got with Robotech.

But I don't think the same could be said for SDCSC. If you were to gage SDCSC's popularity by the amount of Japanese merchandise released this century, I think all that it got was a DVD box set. And going by the small amount of SDCSC stuff I see on Yahoo Japan auctions, I'd say that it's not even on the radar in Japan. Without Robotech, I doubt SDCSC would've gotten any official exposure in the West.

[VF5SS]

Even so, Southern Cross's exposure in America consists of some toys nobody bought and a DVD set nobody bought (and I'm a nobody). It's about as well exposed as Orguss, Dunbine, or Nadesico.

I still have to wonder if what uberned Steve Harrison said about Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand years was true. That networks weren't happy with Robotech's structure because it made people stop watching after the Macross portion ended.

Then again these were UHF stations so who knows what they were thinking.

[taksraven]

Southern Cross is the most frustrating out of all of the programs. I can kinda see what they were trying to do with it (create an epic series) and there are some great designs and concepts in it but ultimately it falls very far short of what it could have been.

And whats really frustrating is that I think that with a major recut and reedit of the material that does exist you could make a really good series that runs for about 13 episodes.

According to Wikipedia the show was ended prematurely, does anybody know how long the episode run for the series was intended to be?

I think its certainly true that without RT this show would have been consigned to absolute oblivion already but I also think that Mospeada never would have found its own way to the West either.

Taksraven

[Wanzerfan]

You don't sound rude at all, and I apologize if my message came off as rude as well.

But again, you dislike Macross Plus, and you don't want to see Macross 7 (although I think you've been misinformed about the sound boosters, and I'm not sure which mecha you're talking about...), but you like the Eternity Robotech comics. What is it about them that you respond to?

Funnily enough, Douglas Adams died a few years before the Hitchhiker's. They say that the screenplay was begun by him and finished by other people, but I have my doubts... (not that that's relevant, really.)

So yeah, the Robotech comics. What do you find good about them?

I like the Malcontent Uprisings storyline, but the other comics are mediocre at best. I happen to really like Michael Ling's artwork; the writing, especially in issue #7 is rather good.

Hold up there partner. Are you talking about the Varauta fighters being hit with speaker pods? How do you know the cockpits are unpressurized? Did you you read that off some RPG site with fake information? Also what mecha is overpowered? Did you check the MDC values?

I've seen some scenes of Robotech and Macross II where the pilots when they were in space were wearing full sealed spacesuits, it's easy to see that the cockpits are unpressurized. It's the VF-19 Fire Valklyrie that I'm calling overpowered, since I have a model of the thing (I bought it at a hobby store that sold imports as well as domestic models); the freaking specs were written on the damned box.

[Seto Kaiba]

Let's give credit where credits are due. HG did good by introducing SDC Southern Cross & GC Mospeada as part of RT line-ups. If not, people don't even give a damn about a failed mecha with tanks series that got cancelled due to low ratings & a mediocre transforming bike series that spawned an OAV.

Actually, you could make a fair case for Robotech being one of the best things to ever happen to Southern Cross, since it now enjoys far greater exposure than a show of its standing would/should have normally gotten. Sure, the RT fans hate it too, but you can't win 'em all.

BTW, I think I just bashed DougBendo on RTX for being obnoxious ignorant sucker that he is. I kinda go up in flames as he accused me full of $#it by trying to defend Seto's view reagrding Gundam / Macross / anime in general superiority over his simplistic views in his defend over RT.

I don't think anybody (except maybe Pizza/Ghost Maker) would hold that against you. Like so many of the Robotech die-hards, dougbendo drastically overestimates Robotech's popularity, its relevance to the anime industry, and its relevance to western popular culture. He doesn't want to accept the simple truth that Robotech is a mosty-forgotten, much-reviled, anachronistic piece of 80's esoterica, so he's convinced himself that Robotech is every bit as popular and influential as Gundam and Macross. So instead, he perpetuates a fantasy so he can hold Robotech up as being Macross's equal, something anyone with even a passing familiarity with the anime industry can tell is about as far from reality as it gets.

The debate between Macross and Robotech is not a contest of equals. It never was. It never will be. Holding Robotech up as an equal to Macross in terms of its popularity and its industry and cultural relevance is rather like claiming a grade-school bully is just as good with his fists as a heavyweight prize fighter.

Or is it because when he accused me as a Macross fanboy when I am actually a hardcore RT purist.

It's pretty much standard practice for Robotech fanatics to accuse anyone who doesn't completely agree with everything they have to say of being a "Macross purist".

[azrael]

I've seen some scenes of Robotech and Macross II where the pilots when they were in space were wearing full sealed spacesuits, it's easy to see that the cockpits are unpressurized.

Ermmmmmm...Then explain Hikaru, Max, Milia, Hayao, Roy, and every other VF-1 pilot going into combat without the sealed helmet or mask in atmosphere.

Edit: And Hibiki and Ishtar.

[VF5SS]

I've seen some scenes of Robotech and Macross II where the pilots when they were in space were wearing full sealed spacesuits, it's easy to see that the cockpits are unpressurized. It's the VF-19 Fire Valklyrie that I'm calling overpowered, since I have a model of the thing (I bought it at a hobby store that sold imports as well as domestic models); the freaking specs were written on the damned box.

You seem very quick to pass judgment on things based on little information. As far as the specs go, mostly its just stuff to fill the box but its also consistent with the other Valkyries from Macross 7 and Macross Plus.

[anime52k8]

I've seen some scenes of Robotech and Macross II where the pilots when they were in space were wearing full sealed spacesuits, it's easy to see that the cockpits are unpressurized.

or maybe they where the spacesuits so that IF they lose pressure they don't DIE. and it would also help if you bother to do even 5 seconds of actual research because you'd know that all the Spacy Mechs in Macross 7 had pressurized cockpits.

It's the VF-19 Fire Valklyrie that I'm calling overpowered, since I have a model of the thing (I bought it at a hobby store that sold imports as well as domestic models); the freaking specs were written on the damned box.

ORLY? why exactly is it overpowered? because it has less thrust and an inferior T/W ratio than the basic VF-19F? because it has the same missile load as a VF-19F but no head lasers and a gunpod that doesn't even shoot bullets?

[Gubaba]

I like the Malcontent Uprisings storyline, but the other comics are mediocre at best. I happen to really like Michael Ling's artwork; the writing, especially in issue #7 is rather good.

Not a whole lot of information, but fair enough. You like it because of the artwook, and the writing is pretty good. That's bettter than nothing, I suppose.

I've seen some scenes of Robotech and Macross II where the pilots when they were in space were wearing full sealed spacesuits, it's easy to see that the cockpits are unpressurized. It's the VF-19 Fire Valklyrie that I'm calling overpowered, since I have a model of the thing (I bought it at a hobby store that sold imports as well as domestic models); the freaking specs were written on the damned box.

Other people have pointed out the flaws in these arguments...so I'll just echo the others and say that yes, the cockpits are pressurized. Levelling this criticism at Macross 7 seems especially silly because its the show that shows Basara* flying around WITHOUT A SPACESUIT ninety-nine percent of the time.

*who I believe you called a "douche" before, leading me to believe you had watched the series. If you haven't even seen it, how can you confidently say he's a douche and that he annoys you?

[Gubaba]

Either that is an insult or a praise, I can't be too sure. However, given that I can speak excellent Malay, mastered atleast 7 Malay dialects & can carry a few Borneoan (Dayaks) languages, quite well-versed in Indonesian language & still manage to use English as my 2nd language.

So pardon me on my grammatical mistakes or whatever, since even ordinary US expats that I know personally cannot even understand Ozzies or Queen's English properly.

BTW, I was motivated to learn English due to Robotech, not Macross. So RT did play a large role to my being able to even understand, let alone posted opinions or snippets on this very thread.

Besides, despite Macross influences in my life, it never egged me to make me bothered to learn Japanese language, since it practically useless in my region. English on the other hand, is different ballgame entirely.

To leap to VFTF1's defense, he wasn't talking about you. He was saying that IN ORDER TO BEAT someone like Doug Bendo or Ghost Maker in an arguement, all anyone has to do is be able to spell correctly and use decent grammar. Then one has, in effect, already beaten them.

[Wanzerfan]

or maybe they where the spacesuits so that IF they lose pressure they don't DIE. and it would also help if you bother to do even 5 seconds of actual research because you'd know that all the Spacy Mechs in Macross 7 had pressurized cockpits.

ORLY? why exactly is it overpowered? because it has less thrust and an inferior T/W ratio than the basic VF-19F? because it has the same missile load as a VF-19F but no head lasers and a gunpod that doesn't even shoot bullets?

Try haveing a pin-point barrier system and it's own space-fold system, you need a larger reactor than a standard VF-19 to pull that off (the model I have is a Japanese import from Ban-Dai that contained both fighter and battloid modes).

Besides, since Babalon 5's Starfuries were unpressurized, I assumed that the original Macross and Macross II VFs were the same (it takes less power and money to keep a cockpit unpressurized than to have the life support system built into the suit).

I called Basara a douche from what I've read on other forums, and from what I've read, the guy's arrogance rivals that of Dragon Ball Z Vegeta's. I should've reserved my judgement until I've actually watched the series.

[Gubaba]

Try haveing a pin-point barrier system and it's own space-fold system, you need a larger reactor than a standard VF-19 to pull that off (the model I have is a Japanese import from Ban-Dai that contained both fighter and battloid modes).

It doesn't have its own fold system. It's needs a pack, just like other Valkyries. And ALL the VF-19 variants have pin-point barriers; hell all Valkyries post-2040 have that. To single out Basara's VF-19 for that seems bizarre.

Besides, since Babalon 5's Starfuries were unpressurized, I assumed that the original Macross and Macross II VFs were the same (it takes less power and money to keep a cockpit unpressurized than to have the life support system built into the suit).

I called Basara a douche from what I've read on other forums, and from what I've read, the guy's arrogance rivals that of Dragon Ball Z Vegeta's. I should've reserved my judgement until I've actually watched the series.

Fair enough. You probably WILL think he's a douche of course...but it's nice to be sure, right?

[Beltane70]

Try haveing a pin-point barrier system and it's own space-fold system, you need a larger reactor than a standard VF-19 to pull that off (the model I have is a Japanese import from Ban-Dai that contained both fighter and battloid modes).

The VF-19 kai (Fire Valkyrie) didn't have its own fold system, though. Also, the pin-point barrier system was standard on all of the VF-19s, not just the one that Basara piloted. In fact, in Macross Plus, the YF-21 also had a pin-point barrier system.

[Wanzerfan]

I was just going by what was printed on the box, which also had printed on it unlimited combat ceiling. I find that stange, like Ban-Dai didn't do its homework. Besides, the Fire Valkyrie is the only Mac 7 model I have, so I just went with what was printed on the box top (right on the face for all to see, no less).

[VF5SS]

Well duh, if it can reach orbit then the ceiling is unlimited.

[Beltane70]

Damn, Gubaba, you beat me to the post button!

To be perfectly honest, I don't hate Robotech. I think of it as a necessary evil because without it, I might not have discovered anime or the until a lot later than I did. I guess that falls under the nostalgia reason.

I can't remember its name, but the best Robotech comic was a mini series about the destroids. It was only two or three issues if I recall. It was probably the only comic of the bunch that really felt like it could have easily belonged to the original version of Macross.

[Einherjar]

BTW, I think I just bashed DougBendo on RTX for being obnoxious ignorant sucker that he is. I kinda go up in flames as he accused me full of $#it by trying to defend Seto's view reagrding Gundam / Macross / anime in general superiority over his simplistic views in his defend over RT.

Or is it because when he accused me as a Macross fanboy when I am actually a hardcore RT purist.

Where are these discussions happening, the dirty little secret Cannon Fodder section?

[Beltane70]

I was just going by what was printed on the box, which also had printed on it unlimited combat ceiling. I find that stange, like Ban-Dai didn't do its homework. Besides, the Fire Valkyrie is the only Mac 7 model I have, so I just went with what was printed on the box top (right on the face for all to see, no less).

Never, ever solely use model box information for stats on any anime mecha. They aren't always totall accurate.

[areaseven]

Well, I just got banned from RT.com again. I tried logging in this morning to find out that my account is inactive. I received no warning or notification from anyone.