HG and Robotech Debates

[VFTF1]

Honestly, if you're looking for a good way to deal with the extremist fans, the best thing you can do is just understand that they feel not just a fan's normal appreciation of a series, but they honestly feel like they're part of the creative process that is keeping it alive. Delusional as it may be, especially in light of the complete and total lack of anything coming from the franchise's source, they still live on the hope that, if they love it enough, it will give them something back in return. HG's sin in this is perpetuating that feeling among their fandom.

Disagree about HG's sin here.

What HG does to its' own fandom is really no skin off my back. Check out that one guy who dressed up as Sailor Moon in the Live Action Yamato thread in our Anime/Sci Fi forum - look what Sailor Moon did to him. (Although I personally actually LOVED the idea!) ...so maybe that's a bad example...

But my point here is to say that ...

wait - lemme start over...

Different franchises have to varying different levels "screwed around" with their fans - and realy, some people sometimes forget that while it's all good and fun, there's also a business/corporate angle to all of this - and you have to maintain a bit of healthy distance and not become a fan drone because otherwise you will set yourself up for dissapointment on a number of fronts...

Now - as someone who isn't a Robotech fan, I'm only passingly and mildly interested/amused by the shenanigans that HG has pulled on Robotech fans and continues to pull. It's like - if My Little Pony fans are crying that they didn't get a live action movie...I don't really have a personal beef with Hasbro for it. I've got no monkey in the fight, or horse in the stable, or race in the car...or car in the race...or however the hell that one adage went...

The real sin that HG has perpetuated is that its' little mess with Robotech keeps seeping OUT of the Robotech fandom and into other fandoms that have NOTHING to do with them. Suddenly Mechawarrior fans are denied some fun because of the HG/Robotech mess. Bigbadtoystore gets told what they can and can't sell because of the HG/Mechawarrior mess (or at least an attempt is made), Macross fans can't watch their favorite anime on DVD in America because of HG (Plus, Zero, 7, etc etc etc).... there's the whole "issue" with Yamato USA not being able to officially formally distribute its' superior Macross products...

And then there's just the whole fan war - and let's please openly call a spade a spade because that's what it is - there's the fan war between Robotech fans and Macross fans.

It's not a particulary intense or nasty war - certainly no where near as nasty as the barrage that Keith had to deal with on that old yahoo group that someone once kindly linked to me - but it is there.

Part of what makes it a low intensity conflict is the fact that the Robotech side can't spell. It's kind of like meeting the enemy on the battle field and finding that they don't know which way to hold their rifles, or they keep pointing their artilery straight up into the sky and their shells keep falling back on them. This kind of enemy is pretty pathetic.

However - that said - its' one bad effect, and truly poisonous effect - is that it's an enemy which purposefully promotes willfull blatant ignorance. We tend to laugh at newbies who don't know squat or who keep using Robotech terms interchangeably with Macross terms - but it's a sad ever present reminder of the general culture's lack of knowledge which is something that ultimately can be traced directly to HG's lasting misinformation campaign - also known as "Robotech."

And misinformation is all it is. For people who started with the noble aim of giving Americans a taste of the awesomeness of Japanese anime, they are now at the forefront of perpetuating the "Japanese anime is pedophilia" meme and of effectively keeping Americans ignorant of any major cultural distinctions between American sci-fi and Japanese anime by continuing to conflate and compare Robotech to things like Star Wars, Star Trek etc etc and by basically denying the very existence of Mospedea and Southern Cross.

I mean - jeez guys. At least Macross is the BASIS of all of Robotech. But imagine - what would have happened if say...Mospedea was first? Macross second. Or what if Macross was last? It could have happened. Imagine the mess then. Imagine what kind of twisted bastard of a story would have had to make the workable, and how many folks would to this day be utterly confused and f-ed up in the head because of it... coming to SDFM TV they would be like...that's the planet Stick Bernard liberated from the Invid - it's not Earth. And that's Stick's son - Rick (the blond one) and Roy's son - John (the black haired one)... and that girl who sings? She's half invid actually -which is revealed when the Invid's green cousins - who are now fully evolved into mutated giant humans - come pay a visit...

screwed up completely.

And independent of whether or not the LAM suceeds - the very fact that they are trying means that they are trying to CEMENT the damage they've done and forever close the minds of the great mass of American and some segment of the Global audience from Japanese anime by bringing Robotech to the big screen and forever enshrining the bastard for at least a generation to come.

If you like Japanse anime and you would like Japanese anime to become more acceptable to mainstream America, or to the mainstream of the culture in whatever country you're living in - then HG's efforts with Robotech LAM don't help.

And that's their sin.

If it was just a bunch of dudes who happened to worship their old 80s bootleg - then fine.

But it's a bunch of dudes who are doing damage to the fabric of the pop culture in America and to some extent the world by spreading misinformation and a fake view of a story that's very interesting on its' own right - a story which people ought to at least have the chance to watch in its' own right.

Pete

[hulagu]

And independent of whether or not the LAM suceeds - the very fact that they are trying means that they are trying to CEMENT the damage they've done and forever close the minds of the great mass of American and some segment of the Global audience from Japanese anime by bringing Robotech to the big screen and forever enshrining the bastard for at least a generation to come.

Actually, I was rather hoping the LAM (and to a lesser extent the Shadow Chronicles) would serve as a chance to finally spin the franchise off into its own thing.

Then this kind of thing happens, and one gets the impression HG wants to keep to the old ways, continue riding off brand confusion with Macross and keep the franchise grounded in "I-can't-believe-it's-not-Southernmacrosspeada" forever.

Edited January 3, 2010 by hulagu

[Funkenstein]

Disagree about HG's sin here.

The real sin that HG has perpetuated is that its' little mess with Robotech keeps seeping OUT of the Robotech fandom and into other fandoms that have NOTHING to do with them. Suddenly Mechawarrior fans are denied some fun because of the HG/Robotech mess. Bigbadtoystore gets told what they can and can't sell because of the HG/Mechawarrior mess (or at least an attempt is made), Macross fans can't watch their favorite anime on DVD in America because of HG (Plus, Zero, 7, etc etc etc).... there's the whole "issue" with Yamato USA not being able to officially formally distribute its' superior Macross products...

Pete

This is the most concise reason why there is so much friction. HG, a real-estate broker and C movie distributor is keeping a genuine piece of entertainment (two ,including Mechwarrior 5) from the hands of people who really want it. Ill say that if Toynami had to compete against Yamato, it would be utterly destroyed. Though, I would say that the licensing issues around Mac7 are a lot more complicated due to having the music rights separate from the TV rights.

[Einherjar]

Ok i just got back from lurking RT.com, and it looks like that is HG's logo for Robotech's 25th Anniversary. I can see where they got some ideas for their 25th Anniversary logo. Now i'm not saying HG ripped off Macross' 25th Anniversary logo, but there's definitely some similarities. In Macross, it's a silhouette of a GERWALK'd Valkyrie at the center. In Robotech, it's a Guardian mode Alpha. Coincidence?

It might be simpler than that; it's the same Alpha that appeared on the cover of the Shadow Chronicles DVD or other promotional pictures behind a blazing background (Photoshop). If this year turns out to be the same as the rest, it could be just another weightless symbol for Robotech that can be put on souless merchandise to bait people into buying new stuff from HG. MEMO will probably buy it regardless since he'll always be a guarenteed sale.

Too bad it loses some of its effect when the Macross 25th Anniversary already happened and something significant came with it, despite only happening in Japan.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Einherjar

[Dio]

Actually, I was rather hoping the LAM (and to a lesser extent the Shadow Chronicles) would serve as a chance to finally spin the franchise off into its own thing.

Then this kind of thing happens, and one gets the impression HG wants to keep to the old ways, continue riding off brand confusion with Macross and keep the franchise grounded in "I-can't-believe-it's-not-Southernmacrosspeada" forever.

I've said the exact same thing - the live action movie is a chance to take Robotech and make it something new and quasi-original despite its origins. If Robotech could finally sever its ties to Macross and turn into an enjoyable (heck, even "cheesy but watchable") franchise all its own, then maybe we'd see this all come to an end and leave with two series to enjoy instead of one to love and another to deride.

Yes, I am shamelessly optimistic. I have to be, as I'm a tech support person at work

I do agree though, my post was more geared toward dealing with fans than it was on the topic of HG and their legal wranglings. The legal stuff seems to make up half of this discussion, while the other half seems to be about the fan warfare that results from it.

[VFTF1]

If Robotech could finally sever its ties to Macross and turn into an enjoyable (heck, even "cheesy but watchable") franchise all its own, then maybe we'd see this all come to an end and leave with two series to enjoy instead of one to love and another to deride.

Let me answer your thought with the following piece:

The MOVIE TIMES

June 25th, 2013

ROBOTECH FAILS AT BOX OFFICE: LATE TO THE PARTY

by John D Critic

Robotech the Movie would have been a box office hit...5 years ago. That was when Transformers Return of the Fallen peaked and brought in the most money that any 80s revival movie ever did in the history of the genre. But that was then; this is now, and all of the nostalgia is dead and gone because everybody has gotten their wish. Everything the 80s generation wished to see on the big screen, and wished to have brought back from their childhood has been brought back. They've outgrown their desire to return to their childhood and feel that justice has been done - for better or for worse - to that portion of their lives. They're now more interested in totally new concepts and unique science fiction movies and dramas rather than remakes of cartoons they watched as kids.

And while Robotech's creators seemed aware of the risks they were running in coming to the 80s revival party so late, they still couldn't come up with a concept unique enough to save the movie from its' self. If you think about it - this isn't actually a surprise. Robotech the movie was advertised on the one hand as an exciting, action packed space opera that would utilize all of the advances made in CGI story telling since Phantom Menace to bring us the ultimate cinematic science fiction experience with transforming robots, romance, aliens - everything you could think of.

But on the other hand, Robotech was also - despite its' claim to uniqueness - based on the 1980s cartoon of the same name, which happened to also feature transforming robots, space aliens, romance and everything you could think of. And whenever there was any occasion to hype Robotech as another in the long line of great 80s revival films - Warner Bros. took it. They stuck with the formulae blazed by Transformers with heavy web presence at Robotech.com and lots of interaction with dedicated fans.

But while Transformers managed to retain its' dedicated fans and expand to a mainstream audience by having just the right blend of the familiar and the novel, Robotech alienated the few fans it had left by not even showing or mentioning their hero, Rick Hunter, by name (replacing him with someone named 'Stick' - which might have been a nod at 'Rick' although my sources tell me that apparently Stick was some lesser character in the Robotech cartoon...hey...whatever...it was thirty years ago and I can't find it on google!), while also not catching fire amongst mainstream viewers who seem to have adopted a "been there, done that" attitude. Aliens? What science fiction movie hasn't had them in the recent past? Transforming robots? After FIVE Transformers movies, the last of which ended up direct to DVD, the market seems to have had enough for now and this has ceased to be a drawing point. Romance? Guys - if you want to take your girlfriends out to a romantic movie, then despite the adds in Variety and Cosmos which Warner Bros. purchased to try to get women interested in the film as a romantic movie - we advise that you take them to see this year's romantic block buster The Hollow Wind Blows Through the Heart, or even the independent film Friends and Lovers. Both are romantic movies that women love without the hassel of trying to wedge romantic moments in between big slimy slug like aliens fighting transforming tanks and helicopters for control of Robotechnology.

Yes - Robotech had everything right going for it: everything right, that is, for a movie of this sort back in 2007 or 2009 even. But by 2013...it's just old hat. One wonders why Warner Bros. was so late to the game, and it seems that inside sources say part of the problem was that there was apparently a huge legal mess to untangle, since although Harmony Gold owns Robotech and sold the film rights to Warner Bros, the intellectual Property rights belong to some company in Asia and myriad legalities limited the scope of what could be done with the movie.

In any case - nobody seems to have been satisfied by this film. The best that could be said was that nobody seems to have been dissapointed either because, judging from the boxoffice numbers and Harmony Gold's subsequent bankrupcy - nobody saw the movie either.

Pete

[RDClip]

Part of what makes it a low intensity conflict is the fact that the Robotech side can't spell. It's kind of like meeting the enemy on the battle field and finding that they don't know which way to hold their rifles, or they keep pointing their artilery straight up into the sky and their shells keep falling back on them. This kind of enemy is pretty pathetic.

Pete

You made my day with that quote.

[Gubaba]

Over at Robotechx.com, Memo asked if anyone had any fan-made Robotech 25th Anniversary logos. With the utmost humility and sincerity, I submit these:

[taksraven]

WTF is this?? Collectors edition of RT Art 3??

[taksraven]

Over at Robotechx.com, Memo asked if anyone had any fan-made Robotech 25th Anniversary logos. With the utmost humility and sincerity, I submit these:

Taksraven

[Dynaman]

WTF is this?? Collectors edition of RT Art 3??

Yes - I bought one of those way back when. (brain getting fuzzy, I might not have bought the slipcase version - which is the picture, but I did see it in the store)

[VF5SS]

the vultures have begun their feast

[Funkenstein]

Gubaba, that should be 1985. Whats all this talk about 1982? Nothing of interest came out that year.

[Einherjar]

the vultures have begun their feast

I was wondering if spreading news about that was really a good idea. It's gotten almost everywhere now. That's the kind of thing a certain company would go up in legal arms for. But I'd let them integrate it, it's never going to be official and they've been given nothing new for years anyway.

[VF5SS]

They just don't respect the dead in that fandom.

[Einherjar]

They just don't respect the dead in that fandom.

I thought that's already a given for both living and dead. If they're not Carl Macek, Tommy Yune, or anyone American, they're nobody.

[Seto Kaiba]

I was wondering if spreading news about that was really a good idea. It's gotten almost everywhere now. That's the kind of thing a certain company would go up in legal arms for. But I'd let them integrate it, it's never going to be official and they've been given nothing new for years anyway.

Eh, it was inevitable that after that collection of old concept art came to light sooner or later someone would come along and try to integrate some or all of it into Robotech on an unofficial basis. One could say the sort of scavenger mentality we're commenting on has been a part of Robotech since the very beginning when Carl Macek lengthened Macross by attaching two other shows Harmony Gold already had in its catalog of licensed properties.

Harmony Gold's continuing failure to expand on the Robotech universe in any meaningful way has left gamers and whatnot who want to go beyond what's shown in the "original 85" to their own devices. It's a lot more convenient to borrow from another anime title than it is to come up with your own new mecha (as the failure to do so on Harmony Gold's part proves), and much easier to plausibly integrate material from shows which are similar or related to parts of the universe that you're already working with... which is why we see Macross mecha getting Robotech-ized for use in the Robotech RPG all too frequently. If the rumors are true, this wouldn't even be the earliest example of those sketches being pilfered for use in some Robotech context... that heavy weapons ride armor has been pointed to as the probable inspiration for Tommy's "Super Cyclone" from the Shadow Chronicles movie, and some of the other early ride armor concepts have been pointed to as likely origins for the "Silverback" jeep seen in Prelude. Of course, Tommy consulted with Tatsunoko early on, so they probably furnished him with the unused concept art from Mospeada.

(I actually remember back when I first got started with the Macross II RPG that eventually became my long-running research project, one of the first things I found on the mecha while I was waiting for the RPG books to arrive was Robotech-ized stats for the VF-2SS Valkyrie II (unarmored) and VF-XX Zentradi Valkyrie on unspacy.de)

[VFTF1]

Jumpingh from: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry818667

Ok - so - while discussing Macross Generations in the Character Appreciation thread, Gubaba mentioned that Shinji Ikari from NGE was voiced by a woman, and he elaborated on this for me in the NGE thread, and it was at this point that I had taken my THIRD look at his avatar.

...And made a shocking discovery!

Namely:

Do I spy a Protoculture Addict??!!

Could it be that Misa Hayese has been spending too much time with the Flower of Life? LOOK at her eyes! Aren't they just like Dr. Langs!? Doesn't this prove once and for all that Robotech came first and Macross was just a cheap immitation?

I refuse to believe that this is a convention of Japanese animation or something like that - an art style if you will.

Besides - Gubaba is, by his own account, RICKHUNTER 101.

So it makes sense that out of all the beautiful Misa pictures he'd choose for his avatar, RICKHUNTER 101 would slyly chose the one picture which evokes Protoculture Addiction!

Pete

Inventor of Forum Thread Hoping

[Gubaba]

Eh, it was inevitable that after that collection of old concept art came to light sooner or later someone would come along and try to integrate some or all of it into Robotech on an unofficial basis. One could say the sort of scavenger mentality we're commenting on has been a part of Robotech since the very beginning when Carl Macek lengthened Macross by attaching two other shows Harmony Gold already had in its catalog of licensed properties.

I dunno...maybe it's because I don't play RPGs, but for some reason, people grabbing mecha from non-Robotech sources for their Robotech RPGs doesn't bug me TOO much. At any rate, it bugs me less than youtube videos that take Macross Zero or Frontier footage and slap "Rick Hunter's Theme" or "Stage Lights, Flashing" on them.

I've been thinking for a while that someone should take Sentinels or Shadow Chronicles footage, and put Macross or Mospeada music over it.

Jumpingh from: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...mp;#entry818667

Ok - so - while discussing Macross Generations in the Character Appreciation thread, Gubaba mentioned that Shinji Ikari from NGE was voiced by a woman, and he elaborated on this for me in the NGE thread, and it was at this point that I had taken my THIRD look at his avatar.

...And made a shocking discovery!

Namely:

Do I spy a Protoculture Addict??!!

Could it be that Misa Hayese has been spending too much time with the Flower of Life? LOOK at her eyes! Aren't they just like Dr. Langs!? Doesn't this prove once and for all that Robotech came first and Macross was just a cheap immitation?

I refuse to believe that this is a convention of Japanese animation or something like that - an art style if you will.

Besides - Gubaba is, by his own account, RICKHUNTER 101.

So it makes sense that out of all the beautiful Misa pictures he'd choose for his avatar, RICKHUNTER 101 would slyly chose the one picture which evokes Protoculture Addiction!

Pete

Inventor of Forum Thread Hoping

Yes, Dr. Lazlo Zand pumped Lisa full of Protoculture-laced Invid blood. It makes her turn into a Robotech Master, which means there are now three Lisas. Rick's got his hands full taking care of three mutated Lisas, I can tell ya! It's all part of the wacky hijinx of "Robotech III: Rick 'n' Lisa...'n' Lisa...'n' Lisa." It's a half-hour laff factory for the whole family!

Edited January 4, 2010 by Gubaba

[eugimon]

the vultures have begun their feast

my favorite quote:

Even the preliminary sketches for the Southern Cross armors have promise....Can you imagine what might happen if wholly Ethnic Chinese or Japanese colonies decided to start producing their own body armors to better reflect their cultural heritage?(Already running with an idea based on that and hope to post it soon.. ).

[Gubaba]

my favorite quote:

Even the preliminary sketches for the Southern Cross armors have promise....Can you imagine what might happen if wholly Ethnic Chinese or Japanese colonies decided to start producing their own body armors to better reflect their cultural heritage?(Already running with an idea based on that and hope to post it soon.. ).

Gosh yes! It'd be AWESOME to see some kind of science-fiction update of Samurai armor! Someone should make a show out of that!

Or even, better...how about space colonies separated by country of origin, and each one comes up with a giant robot that visually represents their cultural identity? Wouldn't that be cool, too?

[VFTF1]

I dunno...maybe it's because I don't play RPGs, but for some reason, people grabbing mecha from non-Robotech sources for their Robotech RPGs doesn't bug me TOO much. At any rate, it bugs me less than youtube videos that take Macross Zero or Frontier footage and slap "Rick Hunter's Theme" or "Stage Lights, Flashing" on them.

Doesn't bug me either.

I think the problem with the latter examples you give is that they mostly spring from ignorance - from people not recognizing the differences between Robotech and Macross.

The former, however, is just an example of people using their imaginations.... although... I dunno... I'm trying to think whether I could play a Robotech role playing game nowadays?

I do admit that I miss my paladium Robotech RPGs. I loved reading those things - they were great. And they were exciting.

The problem is - they were exciting in the 1980s when there was no internet, and the stuff we had on TV was IT.

Now, when I have the option to watch a whole bunco of original anime, Robotech just doesn't really do much for me.

But the RPGs were, at the time, alongside the novels, well thought out and certainly had a level of complexity and intelligence that surpassed your run of the mill crap that was on the market back then.

Man...

HG really don't do themselves any favors I tell ya.

I would be a big Robotech fan if not for the way they've handled themselves recently in matter which I've harped on a million times and others have expounded on in depth...

Because yeah - sure - I have nothing against admiting that I played the RPGs and thought they were damn good, or that when I read the Zendradi Rebellion in a book store while waiting for my mom to finish some shopping, I was really pulled into it and thought it was a great great story.

HG is ruining thoe fond memories by pretending they were something more than they were and by endeavoring to keep Robotech alive...

yaaaaaaawn...

bedtime...

Pete

[eugimon]

Gosh yes! It'd be AWESOME to see some kind of science-fiction update of Samurai armor! Someone should make a show out of that!

Or even, better...how about space colonies separated by country of origin, and each one comes up with a giant robot that visually represents their cultural identity? Wouldn't that be cool, too?

and it's important to note "wholly ethnic..." after all, what sort of space armor would a happa design? Space full plate with a samurai helmet? That would just be dumb.

or AWESOME!

[Einherjar]

I dunno...maybe it's because I don't play RPGs, but for some reason, people grabbing mecha from non-Robotech sources for their Robotech RPGs doesn't bug me TOO much. At any rate, it bugs me less than youtube videos that take Macross Zero or Frontier footage and slap "Rick Hunter's Theme" or "Stage Lights, Flashing" on them.

But isn't that a starting point for some of the crazy delusions about Robotech we've seen?

[VFTF1]

But isn't that a starting point for some of the crazy delusions about Robotech we've seen?

This is the big question, isn't it?

See - on Macrossworld we have some folks who are/were Robotech fans but are not delusional. Case in point: glane - the dude who actually did the art for the Robotech comics which is really cool, hangs out here. Lots of people with some Robotech history hang out here. The Mospedea thread looks pretty big and I'm sure some of those folks were at one point (or still are) somewhat enthusiastic about Robotech?

The real problem are people like Pizza the Hut, Memo, Doug Bendo and other similar inhabitants of RT.com

They are..... strange.

And look - I know I'm not one to talk. I don't feel good saying this about anyone - because I'm not exactly Mr. Mainstream myself - but dag...I mean...I just don't understand these guys.... they never NEVER EVER talk about anything concrete. They NEVER EVER actually talk about the story in Robotech. They just use vague generalizations and hurl wild accusations.

Macross Frontier sucks because it's child porn, Robotech is a great story - but we won't tell you what's great about it ....

actually - that's pretty much the extent of the arguments I picked up. The rest of it is just EITHER THIS OR maiby tihs becuz i has 9 thousadns lessoners....

That is to say...

I think the guys at Robotech.com are actually not Robotech fans.

WE are Robotech fans - because we are interested enough in the medium to be critical toward in while acknowledging its' place in anime history -and that's not said as some kind of catch phrase or talking point -most of us...at least me - have real, tangible fond memories of the thing from the 80s...

ah whatever -I'm having trouble putting my thoughts into words this year....

Bottom line is that Robotech fans at RT.com are wierd.

One guy comes here and goes on and on and on while ignoring Seto's arguments, refusing to face them head on. Another dude comes on here and spells like a ...well...actually....I don't know any children who spell that badly... then there's Captain Size Matters who won't talk about Robotech, but would love to talk about how we all hurt his feelings...

yawn...

I think I need to go to sleeep...

pete

[Gubaba]

But isn't that a starting point for some of the crazy delusions about Robotech we've seen?

I tend to think the novels started more confusion than the fan-made RPG stuff. But ANYTHING can be a springboard for stupid assumptions.

[chrisk]

... that heavy weapons ride armor has been pointed to as the probable inspiration for Tommy's "Super Cyclone" from the Shadow Chronicles movie, and some of the other early ride armor concepts have been pointed to as likely origins for the "Silverback" jeep seen in Prelude.

Really. Can't they come up with anything original?

[Gubaba]

Really. Can't they come up with anything original?

Because when they do, it turns out to be stuff like the "Shapings" of Protoculture, goofy alien races, and Robotech 3000.

Really, it's probably for the best that they use other people's designs and ideas...

[chrisk]

Really, it's probably for the best that they use other people's designs and ideas...

You've seen the Prelude comics right? Sorta proves even the current admin can't even cannibalize their own content right. They should just stick to the housing market.

[Gubaba]

You've seen the Prelude comics right? Sorta proves even the current admin can't even cannibalize their own content right. They should just stick to the housing market.

No, I haven't seen Prelude. I can easily believe it's awful, however.

[kung flu]

Just how complex or messed up is the robotech universe? I've never seen it before but it seems really messy to me. I wouldn't mind getting into it but it just seems like a big jumble of crap. Gundam is kind of messy with all the alternate universe stuff, but at least you can pick a universe and understand it. When i look at robotech, it's macross but at the same time its not.

I suppose it would have been easier if i'd watched robotech first as a kid, but then would i look at macross the same way as i do with robo?

[chrisk]

Just how complex or messed up is the robotech universe? I've never seen it before but it seems really messy to me. I wouldn't mind getting into it but it just seems like a big jumble of crap. Gundam is kind of messy with all the alternate universe stuff, but at least you can pick a universe and understand it. When i look at robotech, it's macross but at the same time its not.

I suppose it would have been easier if i'd watched robotech first as a kid, but then would i look at macross the same way as i do with robo?

Watch the show on Youtube, then read the past ten or so threads dedicated to this stuff. You'll probably be done by 2011.

[Einherjar]

Just how complex or messed up is the robotech universe? I've never seen it before but it seems really messy to me. I wouldn't mind getting into it but it just seems like a big jumble of crap. Gundam is kind of messy with all the alternate universe stuff, but at least you can pick a universe and understand it. When i look at robotech, it's macross but at the same time its not.

Protoculture, the plant-based fuel and not the first interstellar civilization in the galaxy, makes everything possible in Robotech. From fueling most sophisticated technology available to being close to a PG-13 narcotic with surreal results, it's everything. Unfortunately, it is also the source of all conflicts in the universe, being a rare substance that people kill each other for.

The Abridged Synopsis: People killing each other for fuel, transforming robots, DRAMA, Rick Hunter, and send HG more money.

[ps99042]

This is my first real post here but I've been reading for years. I just got into another "discussion" with Kevin McKeever about how I think he's a liar regarding anything Robotech related. I always have to come here after posting at the Robotech site to remind myself why they annoy me so much over there.

[Wanzerfan]

Gubaba, that should be 1985. Whats all this talk about 1982? Nothing of interest came out that year.

Somone bastardized the Macross 25th anniversary logo, that's all.