HG and Robotech Debates

[VFTF1]

Most of the general public confuse actors with the persona's that they play, and as a result get quite astonished when they see them acting like the rest of us when they are not in films or TV shows.

This is why I absolutely love Bruno's interview with Harrison Ford

Pete

[taksraven]

This is why I absolutely love Bruno's interview with Harrison Ford

Pete

Haven't seen the interview but Harrison Ford is an absolutely classic example of the real person not matching the screen persona in any way. (Indy teaching the students in the first Raiders film was supposed to be a close match to Harrison's persona, however.)

Same deal when a lot of people meet comedians and find out that off stage, its not unusual for them to be kinda sad.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

You see, that's one thing that sounds good on paper (see what I did there) but really that's the kind of shitty hamfisted writing that drags down most western sci-fi.

"wait we need to fight against the unknown enemy we didn't mention before now"

call me when they start fighting the Vhong from Star Wars

The Robotech Masters had been mentioned in the novels before this stage, as had the Invid, so in the novels it did make sense and did not seem so cheesy. Just going out to flagellate myself for defending these stupid novels.

Taksraven

[Keith]

If its possible for there to have been a high point for the Robotech novels, its when the SDF-1 comes crashing into Dolza's flagship, and as it prepares to fire the Reflex missiles, Dolza realises that the Zentradi should not be fighting the humans, because they have the guts and ingenuity to have fought the massive Zentradi Fleet and be winning, but instead the Zentradi should ally with them against the Robotech Masters. He faces his blazing death screaming "Wait!"

It indicates that a little flash of intelligence on the part of some western writers had the potential to at least add some more little interesting bits to an already great show.

Taksraven

That's equal parts stupid And a bitch move. "No wai,t don't kill me, you're too tuff!"

[taksraven]

That's equal parts stupid And a bitch move. "No wai,t don't kill me, you're too tuff!"

I liked it for the irony factor. You know, that same sort of irony of Max and Milia fighting each other and then falling in lurve.

Taksraven

(And now I'm slagging off at SDF:M itself to defend what I said about the stupid novels, can people stop mentioning it pleeese. :lol: )

[Seto Kaiba]

"wait we need to fight against the unknown enemy we didn't mention before now"

Pretty much a staple of all things Robotech... "Hey, war's over! Oh hell, now we've got to fight a new evil alien race even more deadly than the one we just finished beating who didn't warrant serious mention until they were practically on our doorstep!" Of course, it also comes with Robotech's imitation Federation where they "ally" themselves with every alien race they liberate or conquer, and essentially force them into servitude to fuel the human war machine for the next major war against evil aliens.

If its possible for there to have been a high point for the Robotech novels, its when the SDF-1 comes crashing into Dolza's flagship, and as it prepares to fire the Reflex missiles, Dolza realises that the Zentradi should not be fighting the humans, because they have the guts and ingenuity to have fought the massive Zentradi Fleet and be winning, but instead the Zentradi should ally with them against the Robotech Masters. He faces his blazing death screaming "Wait!"

It indicates that a little flash of intelligence on the part of some western writers had the potential to at least add some more little interesting bits to an already great show.

This, my friends, is what's known as a "wall-banger". Just one of a whole host of idiot retcons in the McKinney novels intended to redeem characters Robotech reduced to cardboard cutouts, and/or just dick with the story to make it more interesting from the author's viewpoint.

[taksraven]

This, my friends, is what's known as a "wall-banger". Just one of a whole host of idiot retcons in the McKinney novels intended to redeem characters Robotech reduced to cardboard cutouts, and/or just dick with the story to make it more interesting from the author's viewpoint.

This, my friends, is really a wallbanger.......

Seriously though, yeah yer right, but it was one of the better things that they introduced. Talking about Max and Miriya having sex reeked of slash fiction and the real brainwave of having one of the characters say "sh!t" in the final novel, as well as the whole "thinking cap" business, and the whole protoculture subplot that became especially annoying in the Southern Cross novels were much bigger howlers.

Taksraven

[hulagu]

This, my friends, is what's known as a "wall-banger". Just one of a whole host of idiot retcons in the McKinney novels intended to redeem characters Robotech reduced to cardboard cutouts, and/or just dick with the story to make it more interesting from the author's viewpoint.

But hey, in place of that, we have retrospective annotations before each chapter just like Dune and Asimov, which gives us credibility as an epic space opera.

Edited December 27, 2009 by hulagu

[VFTF1]

Haven't seen the interview but Harrison Ford

Allow me to spoil it for you then

Bruno gets a Holywood producer to look at his demo for a TV talk show by saying that he managed to interview Harrison Ford for the demo. The producer sits behind a screen with Bruno and his agent, while the demo TV talk show tape is shown to a sample audience.

The demo is 30 minutes of soft core gay porn (starring Bruno), and about 30 seconds of hardcore gay porn (starring Bruno).

Then - after a looong time of really bad gay porn, FINALLY the Harrison Ford interview appears.

Here's how it goes:

THE ENTRANCE TO SOME RESTAURANT. THE DOOR OPENS. HARRISON FORD WALKS OUT AND IS MET BY BRUNO WHO JUMPS IN FRONT OF HIM WITH A MICROPHONE.

BRUNO: Hey Harrisssson!

Harisson Ford: fxck YOU!!

Harrison Ford walks away.

The end.

--------

Seriously - that's the interview

And it too is better than Robotech!

Pete

Edited December 27, 2009 by VFTF1

[taksraven]

Allow me to spoil it for you then

Bruno gets a Holywood producer to look at his demo for a TV talk show by saying that he managed to interview Harrison Ford for the demo. The producer sits behind a screen with Bruno and his agent, while the demo TV talk show tape is shown to a sample audience.

The demo is 30 minutes of soft core gay porn (starring Bruno), and about 30 seconds of hardcore gay porn (starring Bruno).

Then - after a looong time of really bad gay porn, FINALLY the Harrison Ford interview appears.

Here's how it goes:

THE ENTRANCE TO SOME RESTAURANT. THE DOOR OPENS. HARRISON FORD WALKS OUT AND IS MET BY BRUNO WHO JUMPS IN FRONT OF HIM WITH A MICROPHONE.

BRUNO: Hey Harrisssson!

Harisson Ford: fxck YOU!!

Harrison Ford walks away.

The end.

--------

Seriously - that's the interview

And it too is better than Robotech!

Pete

Ta-Da....

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

Um...yeah...well...what can I say? I like typing

Pete

[Jasonc]

I have to go back to what Pete said long ago. Robotech has more plot holes that swiss cheese, some of the original Japanese concepts have been butchered to death, but in all that, I really think it's more the staff, their practices and approach, and a certain number of fans that make the franchise so undesirable. Even after Robotech brough Macross to the U.S. and changed aspects of it, I still became a fan of Robotech as well. It was only before RSC that the "ugliness" of everything started making itself known. While a moderate fan of the original aired episodes, it's been easy to walk away from what it's become. The product itself, has gone so far downhill, that there's just nothing to defend, nothing to like about it. Again, while not a diehard Robotech fan, the difference between me and a lot of other Robotech fans (aside from being a Macross fan first and foremost), is that I know when to walk away. That had nothing to do with people, business policy, and all that. It was simply poor product. While all the rest of the drama piles on top of that, as Kenny Rogers said "You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, and know when to run." - The Gambler

Speaking of all this, there's a good bit of info I found that may be of interest. I'm gonna verify it, then if it turns out to be true, I'm gonna post it up.

[VFTF1]

Speaking of all this, there's a good bit of info I found that may be of interest. I'm gonna verify it, then if it turns out to be true, I'm gonna post it up.

What??

This is the internet! Post first, verify later!

Gossipites wanna know!

Pete

[taksraven]

I have to go back to what Pete said long ago. Robotech has more plot holes that swiss cheese, some of the original Japanese concepts have been butchered to death, but in all that, I really think it's more the staff, their practices and approach, and a certain number of fans that make the franchise so undesirable. Even after Robotech brough Macross to the U.S. and changed aspects of it, I still became a fan of Robotech as well. It was only before RSC that the "ugliness" of everything started making itself known. While a moderate fan of the original aired episodes, it's been easy to walk away from what it's become. The product itself, has gone so far downhill, that there's just nothing to defend, nothing to like about it. Again, while not a diehard Robotech fan, the difference between me and a lot of other Robotech fans (aside from being a Macross fan first and foremost), is that I know when to walk away. That had nothing to do with people, business policy, and all that. It was simply poor product. While all the rest of the drama piles on top of that, as Kenny Rogers said "You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, and know when to run." - The Gambler

Speaking of all this, there's a good bit of info I found that may be of interest. I'm gonna verify it, then if it turns out to be true, I'm gonna post it up.

Well, like I've stated before, I don't understand why most if not all don't walk away from RT to Macross, since Macross is easily the most loved part of RT, and it has continued over the last 25 years with more TV series, etc. RT is soooo stagnant by comparison. Thats what makes me laugh when the likes of dougbendo says that he is going to do things "Robotech style", and the response to that has to be, "What, you're going to procrastinate for a few decades and then turn out a disappointing product?" Diehard RT fans must enjoy lies and being treated like absolute crap.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

What??

This is the internet! Post first, verify later!

Gossipites wanna know!

Pete

What is this thing you talk about Pete? Verify?? How is verify done??

I thought all internet was truth?

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

Well, like I've stated before, I don't understand why most if not all don't walk away from RT to Macross, since Macross is easily the most loved part of RT, and it has continued over the last 25 years with more TV series, etc. RT is soooo stagnant by comparison. Thats what makes me laugh when the likes of dougbendo says that he is going to do things "Robotech style", and the response to that has to be, "What, you're going to procrastinate for a few decades and then turn out a disappointing product?" Diehard RT fans must enjoy lies and being treated like absolute crap.

Well - I get the feeling from what I've read at RT.com and from our encounters with RT fans in this thread that Robotech fans love Robotech for one of 3 reasons:

1) Because they can't read, and due to illiteracy they love Robotech by default since it's dubbed rather than subbed Macross

2) Because 20 years ago they saw it on TV along with Transformers and GI Joe, the latter two of which they saw again in the movie theatre recently and maybe they even picked up a Masterpiece Rick Hunter Veritech to go with their token ROTF Prime - these two figures comprise their whole toy collection.

3) Because given how long the SDF-1 officially is according to Kawamori, then clearly nothing that idiot could have written into the original story could make any sense because just looking at the ship, you see it can't be that long, and therefore the Robotech story is better than Macross QED or whatever.

I wonder what amazing, interesting reasons for loving Robotech I will learn about in 2010?

Pete

Edited December 27, 2009 by VFTF1

[VFTF1]

double post

Edited December 27, 2009 by VFTF1

[Jasonc]

Well, I'd simply post it up, but I wanna get more info, and make sure that what I write is accurate. It's not earth shattering, but interesting. Trust me. You can go to sleep at night and not be perplexed by any big conspiracy or anything like that.

[Einherjar]

Well, like I've stated before, I don't understand why most if not all don't walk away from RT to Macross, since Macross is easily the most loved part of RT, and it has continued over the last 25 years with more TV series, etc. RT is soooo stagnant by comparison.

It's been pretty obvious to me; they're waiting for a satisfying conclusion to Rick Hunter's story. The novels weren't good enough and they want to see an ending in animated form. They had no closure in 25 years thanks to misfortune and meddling by the those in charge.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Einherjar

[VFTF1]

You know - the problem is that there is no better ending to Hikaru Ichijo's story than the last episode of SDFM TV. And for all the faults of the "Macross Saga" translations - the story would really have been better served if it ended as it was meant to.

Part of the reason Robotech is such a deep pain in the ass is because the way that Macross was constructed - no matter how much you twist the dialogue, the pictures themselves tell a story of their own - was to have it end the way it did end.

Pete

[Einherjar]

You know - the problem is that there is no better ending to Hikaru Ichijo's story than the last episode of SDFM TV. And for all the faults of the "Macross Saga" translations - the story would really have been better served if it ended as it was meant to.

It turned out to be a very bad idea to make the male lead of the first show the most important aspect of the show beyond what the character was really supposed to be. He's bigger than (maybe) the transforming fighter planes all three shows have in common, the girl who ended a war with her songs, the strange plant the whole universe relies on to do anything, the ship with the name that started an entire franchise, Zor, etc.

Yeah, that's the problem you'll run into when people can't create their own crap. Eventually, they're stuck over extending the life of the character through novels and comic books that can be retconned at will.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Einherjar

[Jasonc]

Part of the reason Robotech is such a deep pain in the ass is because the way that Macross was constructed - no matter how much you twist the dialogue, the pictures themselves tell a story of their own - was to have it end the way it did end.

It's no secret that had HG made the 3 seperate series less tied together, they could've solved a lot of the plothole and continuity problems. Then again, there were other decisions that just came off bad, but still have people arguing, like where the damn SDF-2 was in To the Stars. I know this has been argued to death on rt.com, but (shhhhhh, here's the answer) There never was an SDF-2.

[taksraven]

It turned out to be a very bad idea to make the male lead of the first show the most important aspect of the show beyond what the character is really supposed to be. He's bigger than (maybe) the transforming fighter planes all three shows have in common, the girl who ended a war with her songs, the strange plant the whole universe relies on to do anything, the ship with the name that started an entire franchise, etc.

Yeah, that's the problem you'll run into when people can't create their own crap. Eventually, they're stuck over extending the life of the character through novels and comic books that can be retconned at will.

Don't forget their ham-fisted attempts at making Zor the centre of the Robotech universe as well.

Taksraven

[taksraven]

It's no secret that had HG made the 3 seperate series less tied together, they could've solved a lot of the plothole and continuity problems. Then again, there were other decisions that just came off bad, but still have people arguing, like where the damn SDF-2 was in To the Stars. I know this has been argued to death on rt.com, but (shhhhhh, here's the answer) There never was an SDF-2.

Funniest part of the Macross segment of Robotech. An absolute balls-up, and the novels didn't help with their crappy retcon attempts.

Taksraven

[Einherjar]

Zor is the catalyst and center of the Robotech universe, but Rick Hunter is the guy people want Robotech to really be about. Hell, most of the time they want to be Rick Hunter.

It's no secret that had HG made the 3 seperate series less tied together, they could've solved a lot of the plothole and continuity problems. Then again, there were other decisions that just came off bad, but still have people arguing, like where the damn SDF-2 was in To the Stars. I know this has been argued to death on rt.com, but (shhhhhh, here's the answer) There never was an SDF-2.

Yeah, the official answer HG gives people who still don't really get it shouldn't convince anyone that they had plans these days.

http://www.robotech.com/infopedia/faq/viewquestion.php?id=56

Thank Tommy Yune for not solving anything. Even the Cylons had a Plan.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Einherjar

[VFTF1]

On that note...Jasonc makes a good point about how wierd it was to make Rick Hunter the center of everything - storywise - in Robotech. I think part of it must have been that they heroed him up. Hikaru was a generic character - your typical everyman. He was thrown into situations - he didn't wade into them. War, love, responsibility - he just happened to end up there. The only initiative that sprang from him was his love of Minmey - and even that was a childish kind of love. Later, his love of Misa was kind of the end result of their common experiences together in the military and during the war. Minmey was always an idol - and she became one in real life - distant and far away.

As far as characters went, Hikaru was boring per se - what made him interesting was not Hikaru but the things that happened to and around Hikaru. In this sense, he was the perfect character for this type of story because he was something audiences could latch on to - like a guide through a wider world.

Robotech took that character and destroyed him by turning him into THE HERO OF YOUR SATURDAY MORNING CARTOON. He was GI Joe who flew a Transformer. Where ever there was trouble he was there on the double, Rick Hunter was on his way! Rick Hunteer! A Robo-Teech Hero! Rick Hunter is theree!!! It's Rick Huuuunter versus the alien enemy, fighting to save the day! He never gives up, he stays when the series is done! Rick Hunter never goes away!! Rick Huunterr! A Robotech Hero! Rick Hunter is there!!!

Rick Hunter is the code name for a crapy character concept thoughtlessly thrust upon a Japanese anime by a small backwater company that wanted to make a quick buck. It has stayed in the hearts and minds of illiterate people the world over - it's mission: to libel Japanese anime as child pornography where ever it may be found.

Riiick Hunteer! A real Robootech Hero!! RIIIIICCCCK HUUUUNNNTTTEEEEEEEEEER!!!

Pete

Edited December 28, 2009 by VFTF1

[Robelwell202]

On that note...Jasonc makes a good point about how wierd it was to make Rick Hunter the center of everything - storywise - in Robotech. I think part of it must have been that they heroed him up. Hikaru was a generic character - your typical everyman. He was thrown into situations - he didn't wade into them. War, love, responsibility - he just happened to end up there. The only initiative that sprang from him was his love of Minmey - and even that was a childish kind of love. Later, his love of Misa was kind of the end result of their common experiences together in the military and during the war. Minmey was always an idol - and she became one in real life - distant and far away.

As far as characters went, Hikaru was boring per se - what made him interesting was not Hikaru but the things that happened to and around Hikaru. In this sense, he was the perfect character for this type of story because he was something audiences could latch on to - like a guide through a wider world.

Robotech took that character and destroyed him by turning him into THE HERO OF YOUR SATURDAY MORNING CARTOON. He was GI Joe who flew a Transformer. Where ever there was trouble he was there on the double, Rick Hunter was on his way! Rick Hunteer! A Robo-Teech Hero! Rick Hunter is theree!!! It's Rick Huuuunter versus the alien enemy, fighting to save the day! He never gives up, he stays when the series is done! Rick Hunter never goes away!! Rick Huunterr! A Robotech Hero! Rick Hunter is there!!!

Rick Hunter is the code name for a crapy character concept thoughtlessly thrust upon a Japanese anime by a small backwater company that wanted to make a quick buck. It has stayed in the hearts and minds of illiterate people the world over - it's mission: to libel Japanese anime as child pornography where ever it may be found.

Riiick Hunteer! A real Robootech Hero!! RIIIIICCCCK HUUUUNNNTTTEEEEEEEEEER!!!

Pete

Okay, but it does bear the qeustion: Would T have had better cohesion, or worse, if Rick Hunter was NOT the central focus of the entire storyline?

I would submit that it would have been better, if for no other reason than to say that it would leave more plot elements open for re-engineering, as it were. As it stood, the 'Hunter' factor was an all-pervasive influence, and even in the masters, there was a small smidgen of him (The backstory that showed that the SDF-3 was well on its way during the events of the Masters Saga, and Rick Hunter was in command.)

Personally, I would have thought that a retired Lisa/Rick Hunter pair would have been better, and the SDF-3 being cmmanded by a newer character. Just like Hikaru, Rick served his purpose in the Macross Saga, and he should have been gracefully left there.

With this in mind, You could have had a longer time period between sagas (chapters, really), which would allow for the magical hand-wave, giving way to a more solid continuity, and the ability to address certain inconsitencies between these chapters with a more graceful and reliable method.

But, what do I know? I'm not part of HG, so I can't really know anything, right?

[Gubaba]

It's no secret that had HG made the 3 seperate series less tied together, they could've solved a lot of the plothole and continuity problems. Then again, there were other decisions that just came off bad, but still have people arguing, like where the damn SDF-2 was in To the Stars. I know this has been argued to death on rt.com, but (shhhhhh, here's the answer) There never was an SDF-2.

Okay...THIS is one of the things I find weird about many Robotech fans. They'll seriously try to figure out stuff like this, and give it some kind of rationale, instead of just saying, "Well, Macek cocked it up, but hey...it's just something added to Robotech, it's not in Macross."

I mean, to go back to Battle of the Planets for a moment, how many fans argue about where 7-Zark-7's roost was? Or do they think that Zoltar is NOT a hermaphrodite, because that episode was made more ambiguous in the English version?

Or the English version of Dragonball Z, where nobody dies, but is instead "transported to another dimension"? Do American fans debate why some characters never made it BACK from that dimension, or do they simply find out that that character actually died, and then just forget about the changes made to the American version?

I can see it now...some Star Blazers forum somewhere, and someone brings uo the question, "Why is Dr. Sane's nose so red?" Someone else answers, "Well, because he's drunk all the time." To which the first person rsponds, "Yeah, in the Japanese OSM he was. But in Star Blazers, he's drinking spring water. So why does he have a gin-blossom nose? C'mon everyone, we can make something up!" That person would be laughed off the forum. There really IS no good answer beyond, "He was a drunk. And they changed the dialogue, but they couldn't change the animation. Move on."

And the same applies to the "SDF-2" in Robotech. It's not there. And they changed the dialogue, but they couldn't change the animation. Move on.

[Einherjar]

Okay...THIS is one of the things I find weird about many Robotech fans. They'll seriously try to figure out stuff like this, and give it some kind of rationale, instead of just saying, "Well, Macek cocked it up, but hey...it's just something added to Robotech, it's not in Macross."

Tommy tried to explain it in the link I posted, but does an explanation, or in this case a food for thought comment from an official to a never ending debate, really help at all? I'm hoping that in all the other examples you mentioned, no one official ever came out and try to justify what they did, and Tommy had a poor sense of judgment by actually acknowledging it in the show he now runs.

[Seto Kaiba]

It's no secret that had HG made the 3 seperate series less tied together, they could've solved a lot of the plothole and continuity problems. Then again, there were other decisions that just came off bad, but still have people arguing, like where the damn SDF-2 was in To the Stars. I know this has been argued to death on rt.com, but (shhhhhh, here's the answer) There never was an SDF-2.

It's not exactly a secret that the process of editing and rewriting Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada into Robotech was carried out in an extremely disorganized fashion. In various interviews, members of the cast and staff have alluded to there having been as many as three or four episodes being rewritten at any given time, often with little or no interaction between the writers. Presumably a great many of the various inconsistencies, discontinuities, and plot holes can be attributed to this bad practice. Some of the deliberate changes, like adding the "SDF-2" to the dialogue and many of the screwball decisions about the continuity are just the result of inept writing and generally poor decision-making.

Tommy tried to explain it in the link I posted, but does an explanation, or in this case a food for thought comment from an official to a never ending debate, really help at all? I'm hoping that in all the other examples you mentioned, no one official ever came out and try to justify what they did, and Tommy had a poor sense of judgment by actually acknowledging it in the show he now runs.

Not really, no... Robotech fan culture, deprived of new material through virtually all of its life, has centered itself around retreading the same old, unanswerable questions. Various Harmony Gold mooks have, at one time or another, attempted to officially address many of the major screwups and intentional (harebrained) changes, but I don't think the fans really WANT an answer. As we've seen in the SDF-2 debate over there, even when an official answer is available, the fans will never be satisfied with it because once these questions are answered they no longer have anything to talk about, their franchise having produced nothing of substance for nearly 25 years. Because the fanbase has been starved for new content ages, they've had to turn on the TV series and try to make all something significant of all the minutiae scattered throughout the series with a zeal that borders on the obsessive. There are a bunch of guys on RT.com who do nothing but go through the dialogue with a fine-toothed comb and then barrage everyone present with detailed questions about one-shot or background characters. Before the new Star Wars trilogy, I guess we could've called this sort of thing "Boba Fett syndrome", where fans are compelled to try and make every minor character with a handful of lines into a sophisticated character with an immense backstory.

[Gubaba]

Tommy tried to explain it in the link I posted, but does an explanation, or in this case a food for thought comment from an official to a never ending debate, really help at all? I'm hoping that in all the other examples you mentioned, no one official ever came out and try to justify what they did, and Tommy had a poor sense of judgment by actually acknowledging it in the show he now runs.

As far as I know, in the other examples I mentioned, it's never been an issue. Dr. Sane in Star Blazers LOOKS like a drunk and ACTS like a drunk, so the fans just talk about the "spring water" with a knowing wink-wink. I believe it's generally acknowledged among Star Blazers fans that saying that the alcohol in his bottle was water was a necessary change to get the show aired in America, but no one takes it seriously.

I'd imagine it would be the same with Battle of the Planets or Dragonball Z (or Sailor Moon, or Naruto, or Bleach, or Pokemon) fans...as soon as they learn what the REAL deal is, they kind of smirk at the edits introduced into the American versions.

In a crazy sort of way, I think it's like songs about drugs. You hear something like "Crystal Ship" by the Doors and you like it, but you ave no idea what it's about. And then your high school buddy tells you, "It's about heroin," and then it all makes sense.

This is how it was with me and Robotech in some areas ("Wait a sec...if little Jason is Minmei's cousin, does she have another Aunt and Uncle living on Macross Island? Oh wait...Yot-chan is just the neighbors' kid, not related to Minmay at all. That makes a lot more sense!"), and this how I *think* it is among Star Blazers (or BotP, or DBZ, or Sailor Moon, or Pokemon...) fandom. I would like to think that if a Robotech fan asks, "What the hell was up with the SDF-2?" then someone would answer, "Uh, yeah, that. They threw it in to explain the third mound in Southern Cross. It wasn't there in the original." And then the RT fan, curiosity satisfied, would say, "Oh," and kind of forget about it. Not come up with daffy theories about the SDF-2 being behind the SDF-1, or under the SDF-1, or flying around somewhere else. But clearly, that's not the case.

I dunno. Most of the edits in other shows are done with the explicit intention of hiding "adult material" (like drinking, or death, or sex) from kids, so learning about those edits is fun and can be a part of growing up. Certainly, when I first discovered that Dr. Sane was drunk, like, ALL the time, I thought it was funny in itself, and funny that the editors tried to hide that from me when I was a kid. (I also liked finding the dirty jokes in Shakespeare.)

But most of the weird edits in Robotech are NOT there to shield kids from things adults don't want them to see (although certainly, there's some of that present)...most of them are done to try to weld the three series together, and that ties them to Robotech's identity as a seperate series from the originals. So then, figuring out where the SDF-2 is, or why Zor Prime is wearing a Southern Cross uniform in his flashbacks, or the musings on Protoculture...well, that becomes important. Because without clear answers, you have to admit that Robotech doesn't hold together as a coherent story.

That's how I see it, at any rate. Certainly, I can't think of any OTHER reason why there'd be a massive, massive thread at RT.com debating about the SDF-2.

[Einherjar]

But most of the weird edits in Robotech are NOT there to shield kids from things adults don't want them to see (although certainly, there's some of that present)...most of them are done to try to weld the three series together, and that ties them to Robotech's identity as a seperate series from the originals. So then, figuring out where the SDF-2 is, or why Zor Prime is wearing a Southern Cross uniform in his flashbacks, or the musings on Protoculture...well, that becomes important. Because without clear answers, you have to admit that Robotech doesn't hold together as a coherent story.

That's how I see it, at any rate. Certainly, I can't think of any OTHER reason why there'd be a massive, massive thread at RT.com debating about the SDF-2.

Then I guess it's all about deception from a cynical point of view. Shame on Tommy for playing along, even though it's part of his responsibilities now. He could have said nothing since there are explanations already out there.

[VFTF1]

Gubaba - the answer to your questions is simple:

Because Robotech isn't just a couple of small changes to an anime. Robotech is putting three unrelated shows together and saying it's one.

That's why they won't let go for even an inch. If they do - then the entire "narrative" falls apart.

Pete

[Gubaba]

Gubaba - the answer to your questions is simple:

Because Robotech isn't just a couple of small changes to an anime. Robotech is putting three unrelated shows together and saying it's one.

That's why they won't let go for even an inch. If they do - then the entire "narrative" falls apart.

Pete

Isn't that what I just said..?

[taksraven]

With this in mind, You could have had a longer time period between sagas (chapters, really), which would allow for the magical hand-wave, giving way to a more solid continuity, and the ability to address certain inconsitencies between these chapters with a more graceful and reliable method.

They tried that stunt in the Macross universe with Macross II and in the Robotech universe with Robotech 3000.

Taksraven