HG and Robotech Debates

[taksraven]

If Agent ONE were a Valkyrie, he'd look like one of those...

Yeah. It kinda reminds me of the Star Wars action figures that started to emerge in the 1990's (I think) where everybody was build like a he-man action figure with this huge muscled chest and bulging biceps. (including Princess Leia if I remember correctly.)

Taksraven

[taksraven]

Who is/was Long, cause his stuff is pretty crap. It looks like the sort of thing that would fit more into some sort of cheap Hanna-Barbara/Filmation show from the late 70's/early 80's. They look like aliens from

ewwwwwwww.

Taksraven

Kevin Long's artwork wasn't that bad. His artwork of the VF-1 Valkyrie was pretty decent, if not a bit disproportionate. Let's put it this way: the guy does have his own Wikipedia page.

You gotta love this bit from the Wikipedia page....

However, Kevin was dismissed from Palladium in August 1995 for unspecified reasons

I mean, why does shite like that have to get aired in public? Being sacked is not a pleasant experience, especially when you know that others are talking about it.

Taksraven

[Moly_Sigang]

The third pic has a very comicbook superhero-esque pose.

[Seto Kaiba]

However, Kevin was dismissed from Palladium in August 1995 for unspecified reasons

I mean, why does shite like that have to get aired in public? Being sacked is not a pleasant experience, especially when you know that others are talking about it.

It's one thing to be laid off because the company you work for has fallen on hard times or is overstaffed, it's quite another to be fired for defying your employer and endangering his business. Unless it's a discrimination thing, nobody's gonna talk about the former, but the latter is almost guaranteed to cause a scandal. Considering what Kevin Long allegedly did, that the reasons for his dismissal were not made public is probably more than he deserved.

What I've heard from the oldest of the old-time Robotech fans is that the reason for Kevin Long's dismissal from Palladium Books was that while working on one of their licensed properties, he was caught tracing copyrighted art from publications the management had told him were entirely off-limits and couldn't be used. I've also heard that he was later dismissed from another job (which I believe was doing art for a Battletech rulebook) because he had been caught tracing copyrighted art instead of drawing his own material.

[taksraven]

It's one thing to be laid off because the company you work for has fallen on hard times or is overstaffed, it's quite another to be fired for defying your employer and endangering his business. Unless it's a discrimination thing, nobody's gonna talk about the former, but the latter is almost guaranteed to cause a scandal. Considering what Kevin Long allegedly did, that the reasons for his dismissal were not made public is probably more than he deserved.

What I've heard from the oldest of the old-time Robotech fans is that the reason for Kevin Long's dismissal from Palladium Books was that while working on one of their licensed properties, he was caught tracing copyrighted art from publications the management had told him were entirely off-limits and couldn't be used. I've also heard that he was later dismissed from another job (which I believe was doing art for a Battletech rulebook) because he had been caught tracing copyrighted art instead of drawing his own material.

Still sounds like it could be hearsay. If its not official, it shouldn't be echoed. (Not having a go at you Seto, I just know that there are always those around with their own agenda to push and I suspect that RT fandom is full of them.)

Taksraven

[Seto Kaiba]

Still sounds like it could be hearsay. If its not official, it shouldn't be echoed. (Not having a go at you Seto, I just know that there are always those around with their own agenda to push and I suspect that RT fandom is full of them.)

You're preaching to the choir dude... and you're entirely right that the Robotech fandom has a lot of fans who are pushing their own personal agendas. If it hadn't come from a trustworthy and reasonably well-connected guy who used to be a convention organizer, and been corroborated by a number of other fans who I trust, I would've immediately thrown it out as hearsay. I'll say this much, it's certainly plausible enough given Palladium's history of tracing art for their books and mixing stuff in that doesn't belong... the DYRL lineart in the first Robotech RPG book being just one example... and after a cursory examination of the artist's work on Palladium's games and Battletech, it beggars belief.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[anime52k8]

It would seem no worries about genitals or porn or other such things either. Wonder how they reproduce?

Taksraven

"how do you think I feel? Mine goes inside of me when I stand up"

[veffidas]

You're preaching to the choir dude... and you're entirely right that the Robotech fandom has a lot of fans who are pushing their own personal agendas. If it hadn't come from a trustworthy and reasonably well-connected guy who used to be a convention organizer, and been corroborated by a number of other fans who I trust, I would've immediately thrown it out as hearsay. I'll say this much, it's certainly plausible enough given Palladium's history of tracing art for their books and mixing stuff in that doesn't belong... the DYRL lineart in the first Robotech RPG book being just one example... and after a cursory examination of the artist's work on Palladium's games and Battletech, it beggars belief.

A little more on the rumor detail concerning Long's firing, with a possible alternate viewpoint ( http://rdfhqcommunicationscenter.yuku.com/...tml#reply-15341 ). I believe the guy who made that post was a former convention organizer, so maybe you were talking to him, Seto. Nonetheless, it's been over 10 years; Long has likely moved on considering his recent work listed on the Wikipedia page.

But, yes, Long's artwork was apparently worth enough to steal and also official sell:

http://rdfhqcommunicationscenter.yuku.com/...n-material.html | http://sdf5x.blogspot.com/2007/06/palladium-auctions.html

Finally, a little bit more on Harmony Gold apparently not being very helpful in getting out RPG products:

http://rdfhqcommunicationscenter.yuku.com/...the-RT-RPG.html

[Funkenstein]

Slap some superhero spandex on those Valkyries.

[VF5SS]

Lol Palladium. No one wants to play your crappy RPG anymore. So sad.

[Freiflug88]

Slap some superhero spandex on those Valkyries.

Better yet who do I have to pay to see Comicbook Superheros/Macross crossover? I want to see Tony Stark turn a Valkyrie into a Zentradi sized Iron man suit, the Black Hawks fly Valyries with Skull Squadron, Lady Black Hawk give Sheryl flying lessons, Gambit take Gamlin to a bar, and of course have Aquaman telecommunicate with Space Whales and Vajra for aid while Superman flys around the earth to travel back in time to save Louis from boarding the Megaroad to interview Minmay and to prevent Robotech from ever ripping off his movie theme song.

[Wanzerfan]

They're like, giant amazon women. Not giant as in Meltran, but as in big-boned. Who ride in protoculture powered chariots. I think Breetai hooks up with one before he bites it. Speaking of El Breetai...

Actually, according to the novels, and maybe the comic books (I havent gotten past Book II, issue 5) Breetai hooks up with a female Zentraedi by the name of Kazianna Hesh. Angelo Dante hooks up with Gnea in the book The End of the Circle.

The HG at Robotech Debate thread will be back after this important public service announcement:

I don't know what movie you're thinking of, but it ain't Fast Times at Ridgemont High...

We now return you to the HG and Robotech Debate thread.

I saw something on some network years ago about the making of the movie. During the scene where Judge Reinhold's character's sister gets pregnant, there was a shot of the guy full monty, albeit briefly. The MPAA saw the flick and threatened an X rating if the scene wasn't cut, the reason they gave the director was that a shot of an exposed penis signified power. Needless to say the shot was cut.

The funny thing is that the director of the flick was a woman.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Wanzerfan

[Gubaba]

I saw something on some network years ago about the making of the movie. During the scene where Judge Reinhold's character's sister gets pregnant, there was a shot of the guy full monty, albeit briefly. The MPAA saw the flick and threatened an X rating if the scene wasn't cut, the reason they gave the director was that a shot of an exposed penis signified power. Needless to say the shot was cut.

The funny thing is that the director of the flick was a woman.

I think you're thinking of a something else. There was a scene in Fast Times that had to be changed in order to get a R rating, but it wasn't like that.

[Seto Kaiba]

Lol Palladium. No one wants to play your crappy RPG anymore. So sad.

It's not like that's a new development, particularly where Robotech is concerned.

Just before the release of the new edition of the Robotech RPG, the mooks running Robotech.com had a dice roll system added to certain parts of their forums so people could play the game online. Thus far, nobody has ever actually managed to get a game going there. The few people who tried to start games there gave up due to insufficient interest, and people coming in from Palladium's boards to recruit people never had any luck either. The few Robotech RPG games running online are mainly on RPOL, and they use the old 1st Edition books so their players can just download the books in PDF form instead of buying the new editions. The majority of Robotech fans who buy the books do so not with the intent of playing the game, but with the intent of using the book as an encyclopedia/tech manual of sorts, since apart from Robotech Art 1, Harmony Gold has never really bothered with such things. The "2nd Edition" of RPG is particular popular for this purpose, since the books are supposedly vetted by Tommy Yune before going to print.

It's safe to say the biggest group playing the Palladium Robotech RPG are using it (or the Macross II equiv.) in order to play Macross-based games with revised rules and less ridiculous mecha stats.

Better yet who do I have to pay to see Comicbook Superheros/Macross crossover? I want to see Tony Stark turn a Valkyrie into a Zentradi sized Iron man suit

It certainly wouldn't be the first time Tony Stark got an add-on for his Iron Man armor that looked like a well-known mecha... I remember seeing pics circulate of an add-on he used against The Hulk that looked suspiciously like the RX-78GP03 Dendrobium Orchis, except scaled down to replace the GP03 Stamen unit with his Iron Man armor.

Actually, according to the novels, and maybe the comic books (I havent gotten past Book II, issue 5) Breetai hooks up with a female Zentraedi by the name of Kazianna Hesh. Angelo Dante hooks up with Gnea in the book The End of the Circle.

While this will probably shock the hell out of Gubaba, both of the above statements are entirely correct (to the best of my knowledge). I remember this was actually the source of a fair bit of griping on Robotech.com after Prelude was released, which killed off most of the Macross characters left in the series and eliminated the possibility of Sentinels novel characters appearing, like Breetai's lover Kazianna Hesh and their child, Max and Miriya's second daughter Aurora, and Rick and Lisa's son Roy.

[Gubaba]

While this will probably shock the hell out of Gubaba, both of the above statements are entirely correct (to the best of my knowledge).

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[Beltane70]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

This is the second time you've had me laughing hard enough that it hurt.

I really think you are trying to kill me!

[taksraven]

This is the second time you've had me laughing hard enough that it hurt.

I really think you are trying to kill me!

Gubaba the killer.

Taksraven

[Jasonc]

yeah, that was classic!!! I haven't used that line since high school. Thanks for taking me back a long ways. It's great to see that things are kinda back to normal. I'm waiting for someone to post about some podcaast of hate for us. I think we're so hated sometimes cause we're usually right. That can piss off many a trouble makers trying to push an agenda.

[Seto Kaiba]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Handle that gag with care, it's an antique.

It's great to see that things are kinda back to normal. I'm waiting for someone to post about some podcaast of hate for us. I think we're so hated sometimes cause we're usually right. That can piss off many a trouble makers trying to push an agenda.

Indeed... it's nice to see that amateur dramatics week is over and we can get back to business as usual. I expert you're right, that part of the reason some Robotech fans get butthurt over what we say here is because our observations don't just make Robotech look bad, their factual basis is such that they're almost impossible to refute. It's not just Robotech fans with personal agendas who take umbrage, it's also the fans who want to keep living under a rock and believing all the hype and bullshit Harmony Gold puts out about Robotech.

[Gubaba]

Handle that gag with care, it's an antique.

I didn't say I invented it or anything.

...but ya gotta admit, it's appropriate.

[Beltane70]

Well, there are two posts in the rt.com warzone forum that I haven't answered to yet. One from notdougbendo (orguss_prime) and one from PTH on how supposedly the animation in Macross 7 proves that the VF-1 Valkyrie is superior to the VF-11 Thunderbolt and just as good as the VF-17 Nightmare despite the fact that the specifications in every Macross publication says otherwise. I even posted the specs in one of my posts, but they dismiss these facts by saying that they're only my opinion.

I just haven't been in the mood to post a rebuttal to their claims. I'm sure that at this moment, both of them are probably thinking they've won since I haven't posted anything in a few days.

[Moly_Sigang]

While this will probably shock the hell out of Gubaba, both of the above statements are entirely correct (to the best of my knowledge). I remember this was actually the source of a fair bit of griping on Robotech.com after Prelude was released, which killed off most of the Macross characters left in the series and eliminated the possibility of Sentinels novel characters appearing, like Breetai's lover Kazianna Hesh and their child, Max and Miriya's second daughter Aurora, and Rick and Lisa's son Roy.

From my own view, some of those Sentinel novel characters are in a Schrodinger's cat situation, stuck in a limbo where they're neither cannon or non cannon until the powers that be say's so. There is still a possibility HG will use those characters in the next installment of robotech (maybe in Shadow Rising?). In TSC, there are already some bits and pieces from Sentinels, so who knows maybe we'll see more. (unless of course if HG manages to release it before the world ends in 2012. )

There are some exception though, like Roy Hunter, since Lisa had a miscarriage and Aurora has been replaced by Maia.

[Seto Kaiba]

...but ya gotta admit, it's appropriate.

Granted, you've got a point...

[...] the fact that the specifications in every Macross publication says otherwise. I even posted the specs in one of my posts, but they dismiss these facts by saying that they're only my opinion.

I just haven't been in the mood to post a rebuttal to their claims. I'm sure that at this moment, both of them are probably thinking they've won since I haven't posted anything in a few days.

My advice to you, Beltane... don't waste any more of your time on those idiots. None of them have the maturity or the knowledge to hold a rational debate, they just want to pretend they're experts by bullshitting and trying to shout down the people who actually know what they're talking about. If you're absolutely desperate to get your fix of mindless and nonsensical bullshit, just turn on C-SPAN. Otherwise, your time would be much better spent on communities populated with more reasonable, rational people... like MacrossWorld.

From my own view, some of those Sentinel novel characters are in a Schrodinger's cat situation, stuck in a limbo where they're neither cannon or non cannon until the powers that be say's so. There is still a possibility HG will use those characters in the next installment of robotech (maybe in Shadow Rising?). In TSC, there are already some bits and pieces from Sentinels, so who knows maybe we'll see more. (unless of course if HG manages to release it before the world ends in 2012. )

There are some exception though, like Roy Hunter, since Lisa had a miscarriage and Aurora has been replaced by Maia.

Eh, most of Sentinels has already been ruled out. Just a few small elements were included to appease the fans who wanted to see a continuation of Sentinels. The way Prelude was put together essentially excludes a lot of the material in the comics and novels.

[Jasonc]

I was over on a certain podcast, and somebody did get extremely butthurt, so much so, that all the facts of what transpired have all been changed. Supposedly, we are all scared and went running away, and supposedly, I'm a Robotech fan who fell really hard. Strange, since it's been no secret that I was a Macross fan before I was ever a Robotech fan. Also, supposedly Seto, you get all your info from me, I guess by mental telepathy, who the hell knows. Anyways, as I said before, it's good comedy listening to his so-called analysis of events that occurred. I'm sure he used every brain cell (all 5 of them) to come up with what he did. I didn't know I was trying to gather my own Robotech fandom, and that I've been banned several times. Hahaha, supposedly, I'm really scared, as if I'm trying to push some agenda. I must've really pissed him off something real, cause he basically made up about 90% of the story. Hahaha. you know, if I actually cared, I'd go on, but to waste my time on whiny-@ss crybabies is something I don't have the time to do.

What I did notice, is that instead of actually reading the post on the podcast, he used some software to read the posts. And now, we have a clue as to the fact that he is indeed, illiterate. And now, the poor sap is schooled and back on his own rant. Great stuff.

[Beltane70]

My advice to you, Beltane... don't waste any more of your time on those idiots. None of them have the maturity or the knowledge to hold a rational debate, they just want to pretend they're experts by bullshitting and trying to shout down the people who actually know what they're talking about. If you're absolutely desperate to get your fix of mindless and nonsensical bullshit, just turn on C-SPAN. Otherwise, your time would be much better spent on communities populated with more reasonable, rational people... like MacrossWorld.

I know it's a waste, but since I challenged him to tell me exactly where the animation proves his claims, I'll say my final piece on how he's wrong even though I know full well he'll have some lame reason why he thinks he's right. I'd rather have him give some lame response than to let him claim that I'm not responding because I supposedly know that I'm wrong and that my non-answer is an admission of defeat.

What can I say, I'm a glutton for punishment!

[Robelwell202]

I know it's a waste, but since I challenged him to tell me exactly where the animation proves his claims, I'll say my final piece on how he's wrong even though I know full well he'll have some lame reason why he thinks he's right. I'd rather have him give some lame response than to let him claim that I'm not responding because I supposedly know that I'm wrong and that my non-answer is an admission of defeat.

What can I say, I'm a glutton for punishment!

Well, if you're set in your course, I won't bother to convince you otherwise.

I mean, I might have tried to explain that there were others before you, who've done the same thing, trying with reason, fact, and statistics to point out something that is fairly obvious, only to bang thier heads upon a brick wall that is the idiocy of your opponents. I would also point out that there's a LOOOOONG history of these exchanges, and, weather this will be your last post or not, the people you're engaged in wits-combat with will undoubtedly claim victory for some twisted reason or another.

But.. I won't do that.

I'll leave well enough alone, and simply say

"Good Luck, DUDE!"

Edited December 17, 2009 by Robelwell202

[Beltane70]

Hell, if anything, I'm doing this for my own entertainment! i at least know that any response I get will be guaranteed to be funny and stupid.

Hopefully, I'll get PTH mad enough that he'll say something stupid that will get him banned again.

And Seto, I apologize in advance if I get PTH upset enough to send you hate e-mail again!

Edited December 17, 2009 by Beltane70

[Robelwell202]

Hell, if anything, I'm doing this for my own entertainment! i at least know that any response I get will be guaranteed to be funny and stupid.

Hopefully, I'll get PTH mad enough that he'll say something stupid that will get him banned again.

Okay... fair enough.

[RedWolf]

I know it's a waste, but since I challenged him to tell me exactly where the animation proves his claims, I'll say my final piece on how he's wrong even though I know full well he'll have some lame reason why he thinks he's right. I'd rather have him give some lame response than to let him claim that I'm not responding because I supposedly know that I'm wrong and that my non-answer is an admission of defeat.

What can I say, I'm a glutton for punishment!

In real robot anime the mecha doesn't count (unless it some special one of kind or a prototype i.e. Gundam). It is the ace or the pilot with the character shields. In the very first episode of Mospeda Legios with their Threads were being blown left and right.

If you want to present video evidence of VF-11 performance I refer to you Macross Plus OVA episode 1 prologue where Isamu takes on rebel Zentradi. Also the manly death of Kiryu in Macross 7 episode 26.

Also as of Macross VF-X2 game the VF-11 with Protect Armor is equipped with nukes for that extra capital ship bang.

[Saraphys]

If you want to present video evidence of VF-11 performance I refer to you Macross Plus OVA episode 1 prologue where Isamu takes on rebel Zentradi. Also the manly death of Kiryu in Macross 7 episode 26.

That stuff has already been discussed and either refuted (outstandingly badly) or ignored (per usual).

You just cant approach these people believing that they are sapient... Like talking to someone who is religious

[Seto Kaiba]

I know it's a waste, but since I challenged him to tell me exactly where the animation proves his claims, I'll say my final piece on how he's wrong even though I know full well he'll have some lame reason why he thinks he's right. I'd rather have him give some lame response than to let him claim that I'm not responding because I supposedly know that I'm wrong and that my non-answer is an admission of defeat.

Y'see... this is why I said you're wasting your time. No matter what you say, they're never going to realize that their arguments are complete and utter garbage, let alone acknowledge it. You're certainly welcome to ask them how they think the animation supports their ridiculous nonsense, but don't expect anything more than the same pants-on-head retarded arguments and the sort of twisted logic normally reserved for recent victims of Do-It-Yourself brain surgery. Really, no matter what you do they're going to try and spin it as a victory for them. It's the only kind of victory they'll ever have, since the odds of them outsmarting anyone capable of rational thought are virtually zero. Let's face it, you ARE arguing with people who are frequently outsmarted by the shift keys on their keyboards and/or are completely unable to figure out how to work a spellchecker. You are having a battle of wits with UNARMED men, Beltane.

Hell, if anything, I'm doing this for my own entertainment! i at least know that any response I get will be guaranteed to be funny and stupid.

I suppose so... but only if you thought Beevis and Butthead was the very height of intellectual humor. I don't find them funny, but a lot of what they do is genuinely facepalm-worthy.

And Seto, I apologize in advance if I get PTH upset enough to send you hate e-mail again!

Oh, no need to apologize. What little hate-mail I've gotten from Robotech fans that could be deciphered has always been hilarious reading. I've gotten a couple where the author was clearly so angry at me that his already lamentably bad writing skills deteriorated to the point where I spent twenty minutes asking if anyone recognized what language it'd they had been written in before someone pointed out it was just REALLY bad English. On the rare occasions I do receive hate mail for what I say about Robotech, I usually print it off and tack it up to the corkboard behind my desk as a trophy of sorts, right next to my collection of product documentation with atrocious "engrish".

[Keith]

And last but not least, the Perytonians (aka spiky bastards!)

I hate that guy so much, I remember back in the 80's when he'd try to ruin my Domino's Pizza!

[Einherjar]

Guess I've found one of the only people in the Internet who's really obsessed about Seto Kaiba. He's definitely a Dueler.

Anyone know of good sources where to find info on these Sentinels aliens? I'm really curious how they contribute to the grand Robotech storyline, especially the space Amazons, seriously. I hope they weren't intentionally created as fetish fuel for someone.

[Keith]

Guess I've found one of the only people in the Internet who's really obsessed about Seto Kaiba. He's definitely a Dueler.

Anyone know of good sources where to find info on these Sentinels aliens? I'm really curious how they contribute to the grand Robotech storyline, especially the space Amazons, seriously. I hope they weren't intentionally created as fetish fuel for someone.

Snoo Sno?

[taksraven]

I was over on a certain podcast, and somebody did get extremely butthurt, so much so, that all the facts of what transpired have all been changed. Supposedly, we are all scared and went running away, and supposedly, I'm a Robotech fan who fell really hard. Strange, since it's been no secret that I was a Macross fan before I was ever a Robotech fan. Also, supposedly Seto, you get all your info from me, I guess by mental telepathy, who the hell knows. Anyways, as I said before, it's good comedy listening to his so-called analysis of events that occurred. I'm sure he used every brain cell (all 5 of them) to come up with what he did. I didn't know I was trying to gather my own Robotech fandom, and that I've been banned several times. Hahaha, supposedly, I'm really scared, as if I'm trying to push some agenda. I must've really pissed him off something real, cause he basically made up about 90% of the story. Hahaha. you know, if I actually cared, I'd go on, but to waste my time on whiny-@ss crybabies is something I don't have the time to do.

What I did notice, is that instead of actually reading the post on the podcast, he used some software to read the posts. And now, we have a clue as to the fact that he is indeed, illiterate. And now, the poor sap is schooled and back on his own rant. Great stuff.

If you are talking about his "visit" here, he is a moron. He made about ten posts, and then went running off when the mods explained to him that he didn't run this forum. The problem is that he believes his own bullshiit and as a result in his own convoluted mind he can never lose. I think he's more to be pitied than hated.

Taksraven